Colts draft RB DJ Giddens - Round 5, Pick 151

[Mr. Session]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Statistically never, as in it didn't work 95+% of the time. I did go to Purdue, that's why I know how math works.

Like Taylor and his alleged fumble issues, right?

[YDFL Commish]

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Like Taylor and his alleged fumble issues, right?

I would like to set the record straight, before I get dragged into this JT fumbling issue. JT has no more of fumbling issue than Edge did, and yes they both fumbled at inopportune times. Edge lost us at least 2 Pats games that I can think of with fumbles.

My problems with JT are mostly an unwillingness to improve as a pass blocker, pass catcher or route runner, not to mention his utter lack of situational football awareness.

[Mr. Session]

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

I would like to set the record straight, before I get dragged into this JT fumbling issue. JT has no more of fumbling issue than Edge did, and yes they both fumbled at inopportune times. Edge lost us at least 2 Pats games that I can think of with fumbles.

My problems with JT are mostly an unwillingness to improve as a pass blocker, pass catcher or route runner, not to mention his utter lack of situational football awareness.

I’m with you. No disagreement here at all.

All I’m doing is pointing out Archimedes’ passion for moving goalposts.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Objectively, yes, Edgerrin James fumbled too much. That said, I don't ever remember him fumbling by dropping the ball at the half yard line, and I can’t imagine him doing anything that boneheaded.

Not as bad as JT's, but Edge had some really stupid fumbles trying to reach out w/ the ball for the goal line when he had been stopped short on 1st/2nd down. This includes 1 of the 2 fumbles at the Cheats in '04 that cost us HFA advantage against them.

I think that's it. His have been pretty consequential. Even when it's not his fault... like when he got his ankle crushed against TEN and dropped the ball. Seems like we lost because of that one, too.

Eh, you can cherry pick these type of plays w/ almost every player in NFL history like I did w/ Edge and Bettis earlier in the thread. Another example is Adrian Peterson, who lost a fumble in OT of the 2009 NFC Championship which in all likelihood cost the Vikings a trip to the Superbowl.


Something else I think I should address is blaming our loss vs. Balt in 2020 solely on JTs fumble. Yes, it was a large contributing factor in the loss (arguably the largest), but it happened in the 1st quarter and resulted in a 7-7 tie at the time. Balt then went on to outscore us 17-3 for the rest of the game, so it's not like we had the game completely in the bag if JT doesn't fumble in the 1st quarter.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Eh, you can cherry pick these type of plays w/ almost every player in NFL history like I did w/ Edge and Bettis earlier in the thread. Another example is Adrian Peterson, who lost a fumble in OT of the 2009 NFC Championship which in all likelihood cost the Vikings a trip to the Superbowl.

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Like Taylor and his alleged fumble issues, right?

How much does JT have to cost the team before you see him as a problem?

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

I would like to set the record straight, before I get dragged into this JT fumbling issue. JT has no more of fumbling issue than Edge did, and yes they both fumbled at inopportune times. Edge lost us at least 2 Pats games that I can think of with fumbles.

My problems with JT are mostly an unwillingness to improve as a pass blocker, pass catcher or route runner, not to mention his utter lack of situational football awareness.

To be clear, I have all of those issues with JT as well, I just also don't like that his lackadaisical effort costs the Colts games and seasons with fumbles.

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

He had a fumble issue coming into the NFL. Coaching reduced his overall fumbles, but his fumbles tend to really fucking hurt the team, as does his inability (unwillingness) to improve in pass pro, which takes him off the field in crucial situations.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

If anything it shows that the Colts teams JT has been on have a lot less margin for error than Colts teams back in our hay day. But with that being said though, objectively speaking he really hasn't cost the Colts any more games from fumbling than just about any other NFL RB who had as many touches as JT has had.

How much does JT have to cost the team before you see him as a problem?

How much clear, objective evidence does it take for you to admit that you're wrong about something?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

If anything it shows that the Colts teams JT has been on have a lot less margin for error than Colts teams back in our hay day. But with that being said though, objectively speaking he really hasn't cost the Colts any more games from fumbling than just about any other NFL RB who had as many touches as JT has had.

Name a game Derrick Henry has cost his team with a fumble. I hate him, but I have to acknowledge reality.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

How much clear, objective evidence does it take for you to admit that you're wrong about something?

Let's start with any and go from there. We'll get to a threshold eventually.

[YDFL Commish]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Name a game Derrick Henry has cost his team with a fumble. I hate him, but I have to acknowledge reality.

Let's start with any and go from there. We'll get to a threshold eventually.

You have acknowledge nothing. Titans were leading this game 14-13 when Derrick Henry fumbled on this play. Derrick Henry lost 2 fumbles in this game, that the Titans ultimately lost 36-22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysxrsz7jJs

The any is the fact that has already been pointed out to you that JT is right around the league average in fumbles. So now it has also been pointed out to you that Derrick Henry and Edge have inopportune fumbling occurrences.

My gawd man, why can't you either admit your wrong or stop forcing others to do your homework and prove you wrong. I know the answer. It's because you can't prove yourself right!

[IndyNorm]

Name a game Derrick Henry has cost his team with a fumble.

That was actually easier than I thought.

2024 @Pitt - Henry lost a fumble on the opening drive on Balt's side of the field, which Pitt converted to a FG. This spotted the Steelers 3 points in what ended up being an 18-16 win for them over Balt.

Also, if we're pinning the 2020 loss vs. Balt. on JT's 1st quarter fumble then we should pin these Tits losses in 2022 on Henry:

- 36-22 loss to the Jagoffs where he lost 2 fumbles (game that Commish linked)
- 19-14 loss to the Texans where Henry lost a fumble while in FG range, which HOU then converted the TO into a FG

I hate him, but I have to acknowledge reality.

This is highly debatable.

Let's start with any and go from there. We'll get to a threshold eventually.

It doesn't get any more obvious and objective than Chaos' earlier post showing that JT has a lower fumble rate than 8 of the 10 greatest RBs of all time.