2017 Draft Thread

[Coltsalr]

The player who helped himself the most: Linebacker Jarrad Davis. His 38 ½ inch vertical leap would have been an inch better than any other linebacker at the scouting combine. It was so impressive that the event's organizers had to adjust the apparatus afterward so they could get an accurate measurement. His 10-foot, 9-inch broad jump was better than any linebacker at the combine, and his 4.56 40-yard dash was better than every linebacker not name Jabrill Peppers.

The player who hurt himself the most: Cornerback Jalen Tabor. His 40-yard dash was somewhere in the 4.7 range - slower than he performed at the combine. For a player who had been viewed as a first-round pick, it was, uh, not good. More on Tabor later.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/florida-pro-day-jarrad-davis-stars-jalen-tabor-slips/2318250?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Jarrad Davis is a name that I LOVE and I know I've been vocal about it.

He's been a guy I've been hoping might fall to us in the 2nd round, but with him throwing down a 4.56 40, I'm wondering if he might now be a late 1st rounder. If that's the case, then I'm okay with trading back in the 1st round to grab him then and hopefully getting some more value elsewhere to cover it up (including perhaps an early 2nd to hopefully grab an edge rusher).

Jarrad Davis replaced Antonio Morrison this past year. I'd love to see him have the opportunity to do so again. Morrison, speaking of, ran 5.1 40 last year at his Pro Day for comparison sake. An ILB running a 4.56 40 is incomprehensibly fast for us Colts fans. We simply NEED speed at that position and Jarrad Davis would provide it.

Teez Tabor is a name that's gotten some mention as being a 1st round pick, but with him running a 4.7 40, in addition to the off-the-field concerns, I don't see it anymore. He'd be fine as a 3rd rounder though, and he has a profile that just screams "DRAFT DAY FALL". How far he'll fall is anyone's guess.

I also like Marcus Maye from Florida, who apparently had a nice day today too. He'd probably be a very nice 4th round guy.

[omahacolt]

I know this wont be very popular with most of you but I want G Forrest Lamp with pick 15

yep

that is pretty stupid

[Coltsalr]

I know this wont be very popular with most of you but I want G Forrest Lamp with pick 15

Ballard said today that he's not sure he sees the starting 5 for our OL currently on our roster.

Makes me wonder if he's leaning that way. There are no viable starters left in free agency.

It's either they draft a viable starter or sign a guy that hasn't proven himself worthy of being a starter.

I guess the only other possibility is they ditch one of their current starters. Maybe Ballard trades Castonzo or Mewhort? I dunno.

[YDFL Commish]

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/florida-pro-day-jarrad-davis-stars-jalen-tabor-slips/2318250?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Jarrad Davis is a name that I LOVE and I know I've been vocal about it.

He's been a guy I've been hoping might fall to us in the 2nd round, but with him throwing down a 4.56 40, I'm wondering if he might now be a late 1st rounder. If that's the case, then I'm okay with trading back in the 1st round to grab him then and hopefully getting some more value elsewhere to cover it up (including perhaps an early 2nd to hopefully grab an edge rusher).

Jarrad Davis replaced Antonio Morrison this past year. I'd love to see him have the opportunity to do so again. Morrison, speaking of, ran 5.1 40 last year at his Pro Day for comparison sake. An ILB running a 4.56 40 is incomprehensibly fast for us Colts fans. We simply NEED speed at that position and Jarrad Davis would provide it.

Teez Tabor is a name that's gotten some mention as being a 1st round pick, but with him running a 4.7 40, in addition to the off-the-field concerns, I don't see it anymore. He'd be fine as a 3rd rounder though, and he has a profile that just screams "DRAFT DAY FALL". How far he'll fall is anyone's guess.

I also like Marcus Maye from Florida, who apparently had a nice day today too. He'd probably be a very nice 4th round guy.

I already told you that I'm not a fan of Davis. For me the tape, just doesn't lie.

I'm surprised Tabor ran that slow. I've watched some of his tape too, and the biggest negative that sticks out, is that he's totally immune to getting involved in the run game. I get that. But...can it be fixed?

He seems decent enough in coverage though. I just like, even CB's, to play with a certain amount of toughness.

[sherck]

Ballard said today that he's not sure he sees the starting 5 for our OL currently on our roster.

Makes me wonder if he's leaning that way. There are no viable starters left in free agency.
While I would not be disappointed in O-line early, my guess is that Ballard is not convinced about the combo of Haeg, Clark, Good and Schwenke. He knows that currently 2 of the 4 would need to be starters and that he does not see that.

Akso, it is insurance for needing to re-sign Mewhort next year if he wants too much.

Want defense more but I will not complain if a top pick is O-line.

Cheers,


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[YDFL Commish]

While I would not be disappointed in O-line early, my guess is that Ballard is not convinced about the combo of Haeg, Clark, Good and Schwenke. He knows that currently 2 of the 4 would need to be starters and that he does not see that.

Akso, it is insurance for needing to re-sign Mewhort next year if he wants too much.

Want defense more but I will not complain if a top pick is O-line.

Cheers,


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Just not 1st round.

[Coltsalr]

3rd round at the earliest on OL, IMO.

Way too much value at ILB/OLB and we're still weak there to not capitalize IMO.

If there's some huge run on LB's then fine I guess, CB/OL in the 2nd round is acceptable.

[Puck]

3rd round at the earliest on OL, IMO.

Way too much value at ILB/OLB and we're still weak there to not capitalize IMO.

If there's some huge run on LB's then fine I guess, CB/OL in the 2nd round is acceptable.

You really haven't looked at the status of our CB's have you? We dont even have 2 starters to put on the field. Melvin is not an NFL starter. We do have OLB's via FA and ILB in Morrison that can at least play the position.

[Puck]

yep

that is pretty stupid

Protecting Luck is the number one thing this GM needs to consider. Luck has not been protected since he got here.

Can't go through another yr of him getting beat to death.


This team is not going to revamp the D in one season so we better be prepared to out score teams in the interim

[Coltsalr]

You really haven't looked at the status of our CB's have you? We dont even have 2 starters to put on the field. Melvin is not an NFL starter. We do have OLB's via FA and ILB in Morrison that can at least play the position.

I'm well aware of the state of our CB'a.

Our pass rush and overall talent at LB is more dire.

[Puck]

I'm well aware of the state of our CB'a.

Our pass rush and overall talent at LB is more dire.


Ok. I have. Simon and Sheard on the outside. Morrison and Spence on the inside. With Mingo Ayres as backups on the outside and Jackson as a backup on the inside


Who do you have as corners???

Who do you have playing RG?

[Puck]

Man I hope this is true



Stephen Holder‏ @HolderStephen

Ballard was also very adamant that he will not be suckered into erring toward need in the draft. He said he's learned hard lessons abt that

[VeveJones007]

Ok. I have. Simon and Sheard on the outside. Morrison and Spence on the inside. With Mingo Ayres as backups on the outside and Jackson as a backup on the inside


Who do you have as corners???

Who do you have playing RG?

That LB corps still is average at best.

[VeveJones007]

Like Veve said, this is a DEEP draft class for defensive talent.

This is not a deep class for QB, O-Line, or to a lesser extent WR.

If you are defensive set team but need offensive firepower, O-Line or receivers, then trading up to grab "the one" makes sense. Honestly, HOU is a QB away from contending.

If desired, we could find trade partners.

BTW, holy crud, I just saw mock draft by a national pundit that had Hassan Riddick going #5 overall. They are that in love with his combine performance and versatility to play ILB on 1st/2nd downs and OLB/Pass Rush on 3rd down.

Crazy.

Cheers,

Beasley and Fowler had similar rises up draft boards. I don't think it's unreasonable.

[VeveJones007]

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/florida-pro-day-jarrad-davis-stars-jalen-tabor-slips/2318250?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Jarrad Davis is a name that I LOVE and I know I've been vocal about it.

He's been a guy I've been hoping might fall to us in the 2nd round, but with him throwing down a 4.56 40, I'm wondering if he might now be a late 1st rounder. If that's the case, then I'm okay with trading back in the 1st round to grab him then and hopefully getting some more value elsewhere to cover it up (including perhaps an early 2nd to hopefully grab an edge rusher).

Jarrad Davis replaced Antonio Morrison this past year. I'd love to see him have the opportunity to do so again. Morrison, speaking of, ran 5.1 40 last year at his Pro Day for comparison sake. An ILB running a 4.56 40 is incomprehensibly fast for us Colts fans. We simply NEED speed at that position and Jarrad Davis would provide it.

Teez Tabor is a name that's gotten some mention as being a 1st round pick, but with him running a 4.7 40, in addition to the off-the-field concerns, I don't see it anymore. He'd be fine as a 3rd rounder though, and he has a profile that just screams "DRAFT DAY FALL". How far he'll fall is anyone's guess.

I also like Marcus Maye from Florida, who apparently had a nice day today too. He'd probably be a very nice 4th round guy.

They definitely need more sideline to sideline and coverage speed from ILB. I don't know if Davis is the right guy, but I like the idea of trying to address those needs.

[Puck]

That LB corps still is average at best.


It's still more stable than the CB corps

[Coltsalr]

Ok. I have. Simon and Sheard on the outside. Morrison and Spence on the inside. With Mingo Ayres as backups on the outside and Jackson as a backup on the inside


Who do you have as corners???

Who do you have playing RG?

Yes, that's still a woefully undermanned LB corps. Combine that with LB being more essential to the defense in that it handles all phases and that's why it's ther more dire need.

The CB group isn't great shakes, I don't disagree, but the position itself and with Butler potentially able to compensate a bit, it's not as dire. There's no one bailing out our LB's. Fix that first.

[Puck]

Yes, that's still a woefully undermanned LB corps. Combine that with LB being more essential to the defense in that it handles all phases and that's why it's ther more dire need.

The CB group isn't great shakes, I don't disagree, but the position itself and with Butler potentially able to compensate a bit, it's not as dire. There's no one bailing out our LB's. Fix that first.

I completely disagree

[Coltsalr]

They definitely need more sideline to sideline and coverage speed from ILB. I don't know if Davis is the right guy, but I like the idea of trying to address those needs.

I'm not the biggest Raekwon McMillian fan, but he did run a 4.61 40.

Hassan Reddick ran a 4.52. I know Reddick might not be a pure ILB, but he also wouldn't be a pure pass rusher and he'd be able to use his speed in coverage.

Antonio Morrison ran a 5.10 last year and I doubt if oldass DQ Jackson could get under 6. I'm not sure if people (not you) realize how drastically Under-athletic we are at that position and how much adding a guy with speed would do for us.

[Puck]

Right now at CB we have Davis Melvin and Duke Williams Mathias Farley or . Tevin Mitchel. AND Davis is in a contract yr. I think this is the worst group on the team now

[Dam8610]

Right now at CB we have Davis Melvin and Duke Williams Mathias Farley or . Tevin Mitchel. AND Davis is in a contract yr. I think this is the worst group on the team now

LB says hi.

[VeveJones007]

Right now at CB we have Davis Melvin and Duke Williams Mathias Farley or . Tevin Mitchel. AND Davis is in a contract yr. I think this is the worst group on the team now

Everyone knows that the corners suck. They absolutely need to improve there. They still need to improve at LB, too. You take BPA and work from there. As Irsay said today, you aren't fixing the defense in a single draft. Don't flip your shit if they go BPA and don't fully address CB in this draft. We can only evaluate after a few drafts.

[Coltsalr]

Our LB's, particularly our starters, are as follows, our two starting OLB's are two nice role players (Simon/Sheard) that have proven themselves to be quite nice in role playing roles, but not as starters, and amongst defense and coaching staffs that are far superior to ours. I'm still bullish on them, but to act like we couldn't stand to pad our depth around is foolish. Our starting ILB's are Sean Spence, who's maybe an average starter at best, who has weaknesses where we need strengths and Antonio Morrison, who was below average, to put it as absolutely kindly as I can and isn't likely to ever become average.

Our CB's currently contain Vontae Davis, who's an above average starter at the very worst and top-tier when he's at the top of his game. He might not be that guy anymore, but like I said, he's still above average. Rashaan Melvin was an okay player last year. I don't love him and I know he isn't wonderful, but he's not a trainwreck on par with Antonio Morrison. Combine that with Darius Butler being able to help compensate from the Safety position, and the position isn't on total life support.

And again, by sheer virtue of pass rush being the biggest part of a defense in general, the LB's are a bigger need. They just are.

[Puck]

LB says hi.

So who are your starting CB's? I showed who will start at LB

The Lbers have been addressed in FA the corners have not at all

[sherck]

Obviously, our roster is SCREAMING for a veteran CB to be signed even if we end up taking multiple CBs in the 2017 draft. And there are still a few available that I think could help us: Alterraun Verner, Corey White, B.W. Webb, Nickell Robey-Coleman.

However, at this point, since Ballard has not made a move in about a week, I would guess that none of them fit what he is looking for.

My guess is that Ballard is now going to wait until the "surprise" camp cut phase of free agency to find a veteran CB to come in and either start opposite Davis in 2017 or give a veteran "push" to a rookie who wins the job.

I don't think that we are going to get a solution to CB shortly; we will need to be patient until Week 1 of the NFL season to see what the "plan" ends up being.

But, even though we are "re-stocking" over the course of a couple of years, I would be surprised if no veteran CB is brought in unless we end up using 1-15 and then our 2nd or 3rd round picks on CB as well and they just kill it in camp.

Cheers,

[VeveJones007]

Obviously, our roster is SCREAMING for a veteran CB to be signed even if we end up taking multiple CBs in the 2017 draft. And there are still a few available that I think could help us: Alterraun Verner, Corey White, B.W. Webb, Nickell Robey-Coleman.

However, at this point, since Ballard has not made a move in about a week, I would guess that none of them fit what he is looking for.

My guess is that Ballard is now going to wait until the "surprise" camp cut phase of free agency to find a veteran CB to come in and either start opposite Davis in 2017 or give a veteran "push" to a rookie who wins the job.

I don't think that we are going to get a solution to CB shortly; we will need to be patient until Week 1 of the NFL season to see what the "plan" ends up being.

But, even though we are "re-stocking" over the course of a couple of years, I would be surprised if no veteran CB is brought in unless we end up using 1-15 and then our 2nd or 3rd round picks on CB as well and they just kill it in camp.

Cheers,

I really think that Ballard trusts his scouting ability for corners. He probably has a couple that he's targeting in the draft, maybe early, maybe late.

[YDFL Commish]

Morrison, speaking of, ran 5.1 40 last year at his Pro Day for comparison sake.

Is this really an accurate number? 5.10 is crazy slow. For an ILB that is considered un-draftable by most, if not all teams.

Yet Grigson takes him in the 4th rd. Holy shit, I'm so glad that Grigson is gone.

[Dam8610]

So who are your starting CB's? I showed who will start at LB

The Lbers have been addressed in FA the corners have not at all

Quality, not quantity. Vontae Davis is the best player the Colts have on defense. LB is manned entirely with average or worse starters. That's why LB is higher priority even now. I'd spend a 3 on CB, but nothing higher.

[Dam8610]

Is this really an accurate number? 5.10 is crazy slow. For an ILB that is considered un-draftable by most, if not all teams.

Yet Grigson takes him in the 4th rd. Holy shit, I'm so glad that Grigson is gone.

40 times don't matter, idiot.

JMO
Omahacolt

[rcubed]

40 times don't matter, idiot.

JMO
Omahacolt
For LB, I like to see short area quickness over top 40 yd speed. 10-15 yards.

[Coltsalr]

Is this really an accurate number? 5.10 is crazy slow. For an ILB that is considered un-draftable by most, if not all teams.

Yet Grigson takes him in the 4th rd. Holy shit, I'm so glad that Grigson is gone.

Yep, that was his officially recorded time last year:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/antonio-morrison?id=2555160

[YDFL Commish]

Yep, that was his officially recorded time last year:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/antonio-morrison?id=2555160

Sounds like Grigson gave his comments on him as well:

"Sources Tell Us "Write him up however you want, but he's a two-down MIKE linebacker who is tough as hell and a good football player. I worry much less about his 'negatives' than I do with what he can do." -- AFC general manager"

[HoosierinFL]

Sounds like Grigson gave his comments on him as well:

"Sources Tell Us "Write him up however you want, but he's a two-down MIKE linebacker who is tough as hell and a good football player. I worry much less about his 'negatives' than I do with what he can do." -- AFC general manager"

lol, I'm almost 100% sure that was Grigson

[Puck]

I am sure that Ballard will take BPA whether it is Lber CB Oline etc....

[Wyatt]

@HolderStephen 36m36 minutes ago
Was told #Colts meeting w and have private workout w Jackson St. LB Javancy Jones tmrw. More from East-West Shrine:

[smitty46953]

Aaron Wilson‏Verified account
@AaronWilson_NFL

University of Cincinnati linebacker Eric Wilson to visit Packers, Colts, per a source. Has worked out for Patriots, met with Buccaneers

:cool:

[Wyatt]

@1043TheFan
@Tyler_Polumbus "From someone close to the situation, the four teams most interested in C.McCaffrey are #Eagles, #49ers, #Colts & #Broncos"

[Wyatt]

hopefully it's just a smokescreen and the eagles end up taking him

[sherck]

hopefully it's just a smokescreen and the eagles end up taking him
Goodness, yes! I hope it is a smokescreen as well.

While I like McCaffery A TON and think he will be a pretty good "jack of all trades" type of RB in the NFL, I don't want him this year. The chance to get an elite pass rusher at 1-15 is TOO GOOD to pass up.

RB in the 4th round in 2017 and then, if the fixes go well on defense to bring it up to NFL average, then I would be good with RB early in 2018 as the replacement for Frank Gore.

But not this year.

Cheers,

[ukcolt]

We have too many issues at ILB, OLB, CB where these are all strengths of this draft....we should be making every effort to maximise the fact this aligns with the major strengths in this years draft and maybe double up on a couple of those positions. Certainly in my mind we need 2 CB's and 2 LB's as a minimum from the first 4 rounds. That still leaves 2 picks to use on other issues, such as a NT/DE or a RB. Hopefully we can come out of this draft with the potential of 6 realistic starters, if not all immediately, at some point in the future.

[sherck]

The more that I keep looking at this draft class, the more than I want more draft picks in the 3rd/4th/5th rounds. There are A LOT of kids that I would love having wear the horseshoe in this deep class.

I would not be opposed at all with dropping once or twice from 1-15 down to say 1-20 and then 1-26 to pick up extra picks and still nab someone in the 1st round whom can be an NFL stud on defense.

Anyway, I love the potential of a lot of players whom the "experts" think are going to end up being 3rd and 4th round draft picks.

BREAK BREAK BREAK

My current research leads me to like two NT prospects whom should both be available in the 5th round or below; Louisville's DeAngelo Brown and USC's Stevie Tu'ikolovatu.

While neither are world beaters, they both can play heavy (320+), have lots of experience against double teams and play the run well. Both have holes in their game (neither pass rush worth a poop for instance) along with Tu'ikolovatu playing too tall and sometimes getting skated and Brown having endurance questions but both kids would make a very good piece of a NT rotation with Al Woods and possibly Parry if retained for a pretty low investment.

Anyway, those guys are whom I would be targeting my 5th round pick with if I were Ballard.

Cheers,

[sherck]

The more that I keep looking at this draft class, the more than I want more draft picks in the 3rd/4th/5th rounds...
Yes, I quoted myself.

Article on Colts.com today quotes Ballard as being ready to trade down to get more draft picks.
“We wouldn’t hesitate to trade down and get a few more picks if we can,” Owner Jim Irsay stated at this past week’s Annual League Meetings. “That would be something that we think could really benefit us.”

“Not enough,” Ballard says of the seven picks in the first five rounds. “We need more (laughs).

“We won’t be (afraid to trade back). We will not be timid about moving around in the draft. Will it happen? I don’t know. There’s some years we said that in Kansas City and we didn’t make one trade. And then last year we beat bopped around a few times in the draft.

“You’ve got to have a partner that’s willing to trade with and you have to be willing to work out the compensation. We are definitely open to trading back in this draft and we have to make sure when we do it, we still have the right players on the board targeted.”

“In my mind,” Ballard says, “the more picks you have, the more chances you have to hit on the player."
I like this thinking. We are not one superstar away from being a good team; we are a lot of solid players away from being a good team AND THEN a couple of superstars away from being great.

However, as a thought exercise (like I previously did):

Indy trades 1-15 to Denver (who is a good team who needs superstars to become great) for 1-20, 3-18 (#82) and 5-34 (#178).

Indy trades 1-20 to Seattle (who is a good team who needs superstars to become great) for 1-26, 3-26 (#90) and 6-26 (#210).

Both those trades have almost exactly the same "trade value" from the NFL trade charts.

Indy now has:

1-26 (#26)

2-14 (#46)

3-16 (#80)
3-18 (#82)
3-26 (#90)

4-15 (#121)
4-31 (#137)
4-38 (#144)

5-14 (#158)
5-34 (#177)

6-26 (#210)

Picking up 4 more picks; two 3rd round, one 5th round and one 6th round, to slide back 11 slots in the first round and STILL pickup someone like OLB Charles Harris, OLB T.J. Watt, ILB Zach Cunningham, ILB Alex Anzalone, CB Chidobe Awuzie or CB Quincy Wilson would be pretty great.

Not everyone who gets drafted into the NFL works out; getting more picks allows for more opportunities to hit on players.

Cheers,

[natagu23]

Great scouting report on Jabril Peppers. What the f**k is he?

Brett Kollmann is probably the best i've seen scouting guys.

Worth a watch....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4HK4HXEi0

[natagu23]

Peppers was used as a "force" player at Michigan similar to how the Vikings use Harrison Smith.

His primary role was to set the edge from the secondary and force the offense to deal with the middle of Michigan's front 7.

Michigan's Lbers didnt have the speed to contain runs to the outside, so Peppers willingly took on the role as an extra linebacker/force player when asked by their Defensive coordinator.

He was damn good at it.

[HoosierinFL]

Great scouting report on Jabril Peppers. What the f**k is he?

Brett Kollmann is probably the best i've seen scouting guys.

Worth a watch....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4HK4HXEi0

Yea Kollman's breakdowns are the best for sure.

And this was very educational, since I don't follow college ball. Peppers reminds me a lot of Bob Sanders, able to play zone coverage as a DB but able to defend the edge and take out the outside runs, and occasionally blitz inside and get to the QB.
I don't know if 15 is too high for him but if we trade down a few spots he could theoretically be there at 20. That's flat out worth it - you get a good player and you get an extra late round pick.

[YDFL Commish]

Great scouting report on Jabril Peppers. What the f**k is he?

Brett Kollmann is probably the best i've seen scouting guys.

Worth a watch....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4HK4HXEi0

Yeah, Kollmann does a nice job there. He's leaps and bounds ahead of Voch Lomabardi at conveying his point without, laboring on forever.

[VeveJones007]

Yes, I quoted myself.

Article on Colts.com today quotes Ballard as being ready to trade down to get more draft picks.

I like this thinking. We are not one superstar away from being a good team; we are a lot of solid players away from being a good team AND THEN a couple of superstars away from being great.

However, as a thought exercise (like I previously did):

Indy trades 1-15 to Denver (who is a good team who needs superstars to become great) for 1-20, 3-18 (#82) and 5-34 (#178).

Indy trades 1-20 to Seattle (who is a good team who needs superstars to become great) for 1-26, 3-26 (#90) and 6-26 (#210).

Both those trades have almost exactly the same "trade value" from the NFL trade charts.

Indy now has:

1-26 (#26)

2-14 (#46)

3-16 (#80)
3-18 (#82)
3-26 (#90)

4-15 (#121)
4-31 (#137)
4-38 (#144)

5-14 (#158)
5-34 (#177)

6-26 (#210)

Picking up 4 more picks; two 3rd round, one 5th round and one 6th round, to slide back 11 slots in the first round and STILL pickup someone like OLB Charles Harris, OLB T.J. Watt, ILB Zach Cunningham, ILB Alex Anzalone, CB Chidobe Awuzie or CB Quincy Wilson would be pretty great.

Not everyone who gets drafted into the NFL works out; getting more picks allows for more opportunities to hit on players.

Cheers,

I know you can't really trust what GMs say at this time of the offseason, but I think this is Ballard's preference. We'll see if there's anyone willing to move up. It may also be affected by other teams wanting to trade back, so we'll see.

[VeveJones007]

Peppers was used as a "force" player at Michigan similar to how the Vikings use Harrison Smith.

His primary role was to set the edge from the secondary and force the offense to deal with the middle of Michigan's front 7.

Michigan's Lbers didnt have the speed to contain runs to the outside, so Peppers willingly took on the role as an extra linebacker/force player when asked by their Defensive coordinator.

He was damn good at it.

Problem is that the Colts already have a decent player who plays that role. They need to improve at that deep S spot much more than the in-the-box S.

[Puck]

Problem is that the Colts already have a decent player who plays that role. They need to improve at that deep S spot much more than the in-the-box S.

Agree and I love Geathers, but I would take Bob Sanders over Geathers any day ... and Peppers is the closest thing to Bob I have seen since Bob

[VeveJones007]

Agree and I love Geathers, but I would take Bob Sanders over Geathers any day ... and Peppers is the closest thing to Bob I have seen since Bob

They're both physical players, but Sanders ran a 4.35 compared to a 4.46 for Peppers. Bob was a freak of nature.

That tenth of a second doesn't matter much in the box, but it's a big deal when crashing down from a deep S position or covering the middle third.

[Puck]

They're both physical players, but Sanders ran a 4.35 compared to a 4.46 for Peppers. Bob was a freak of nature.

That tenth of a second doesn't matter much in the box, but it's a big deal when crashing down from a deep S position or covering the middle third.

And Peppers is that much faster than Clayton.... But I think we are good at Safety. No need to mess around there

[natagu23]

Problem is that the Colts already have a decent player who plays that role. They need to improve at that deep S spot much more than the in-the-box S.

Peppers can play slot as well.

In this league, you need a good nickel. If you're going to beat a team like the Patsies, if you don't have a good nickel or even a serviceable dime guy then it'll probably be a long day if they they want spread you out.

Plus, you can throw Peppers back there at safety in case Green bombs, or Butler perhaps....which ever you prefer.

[Indiana V2]

If Peppers is considered an impact player, and he's available when the Colts pick, then I say take him, and make it work position-wise. But if there's still questions over how his game may translate to the NFL, then he's not worth the risk, and we draft a need position.

[Racehorse]

If Peppers is considered an impact player, and he's available when the Colts pick, then I say take him, and make it work position-wise. But if there's still questions over how his game may translate to the NFL, then he's not worth the risk, and we draft a need position.

Thanks, Pete

[Coltsalr]

Problem is that the Colts already have a decent player who plays that role. They need to improve at that deep S spot much more than the in-the-box S.

Yep, so if Hooker unexpectedly falls to us (which, no, I don't think he will), then sure, pull the trigger. I can't remember the last time a guy has come out of college already having that much range.

I don't think he will be, though. ILB/OLB.

[sherck]

5 round mock draft over on NFL.com by Chad Reuter

1-15 Haason Reddick - LB, Temple
Bottom Line Injuries limited Reddick to just four games over last two years of high school, forcing him to walk on at Temple. The Owls staff helped him unlock his explosive athletic traits on the field, which resulted in three forced fumbles, 9.5 sacks and 21.5 tackles for loss in 2016. Reddick's speed and athleticism might give him a greater shot at impacting the game as a 3-4 inside linebacker or a 4-3 WILL rather than trying to bulk up and play the edge. An ascending prospect with a high-end potential if he can continue to hone his craft.

I love the concept of using him all over the field sort of like the Texans do with J.J. Watt. ILB on run downs and hand in the dirt pass rusher from anywhere on passing downs.

2-14 Adoree' Jackson, CB, USC
Sources Tell Us "I didn't expect him to have the year he did in coverage. I saw ball skills and coverage ability that I didn't see last year. Those interceptions and return touchdowns will push him into the early second. That's my guess." -- South area scout for AFC team

NFL Comparison Johnathan Joseph

Bottom Line There are two things teams love -- ball production from cornerbacks and return men who can play meaningful snaps on every down. Jackson fits those criteria. His lack of size and length are concerns, but he has the athleticism to step right in as a slot corner on the next level. His combination of coverage and return talent could make him an early impact player.

Lack of talent at CB would allow him to take whichever position he can earn on the field (CB2 or Slot) and he could impact the return game in positive ways. Good pick.

3-16 D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas
Sources Tell Us "I think he would have benefitted by staying in school another year. He's awful in pass protection. Our coaches won't put him out there if they think he'll get the quarterback killed. He has ability as a runner but I think it's going to take awhile for him to become a factor." - NFC Scouting Director

NFL Comparison Jonathan Stewart

Bottom Line Former three-star recruit who turned that a chip on his shoulder into a 2,000-yard junior season. Foreman has outstanding foot quickness and wiggle for a back his size, but will need to run behind his pads and with more aggression on the next level. Teams could be split on his draft value as some may covet his size and athleticism while others will be concerned about a lack of third down value. Ultimately he has the talent to be a good NFL starter, but he's still a work in progress.
Hate the pick. Not good in pass protection? Only had 7 pass receptions for the year? One trick pony which is NOT what the Colts offense needs. Don't mind picking a RB with the 3rd round pick if it is the RIGHT running back but I don't think Foreman is that guy.

4-15 John Johnson, S, Boston College
Sources Tell Us "He's really caught my eye out here. Had to go look him up with one of our scouts to find out more about the kid. Way more athletic than a lot of the safeties you see out at this game." -- NFC secondary coach

NFL Comparison Aaron Williams

Bottom Line Ascending defender with the experience, athleticism and ball skills to play as a high safety or in man coverage. Johnson is well above average as a ball-tracker and has the soft hands to finish at the catch-point against receivers. He has decent size but won't be a banger as a tackler, however, his ability in coverage has NFL personnel men buzzing as a potential early starter in the league.
Love that he has experience playing FS and Nickel CB. Sounds like a young Darius Butler honestly. Mix and match where to play him based on package; young players with that type of versatility are worthwhile.

4-31 Sean Harlow, G, Oregon State
Bottom Line Lacks the length and athletic ability to play tackle at the next level and will have to kick inside. Shows some power at the point of attack, but needs to play with better bend after initial contact. Will be a little limited in space and his anchor problems as a left tackle will have to be vetted in pre-draft workouts after he kicks inside. Could be a serviceable backup with swing ability between center and guard.
Not positive where he fits in the thinking of the guy making the draft. We already have A LOT of "acceptable" options at OG including Schwenke, Haeg, Good and Blythe. If we were going to add someone to the interior of the O-Line, we need a "GOOD" option and not another acceptable option. I guess he is thinking that any additional O-Lineman is an improvement but I would have rather seen this pick at TE than O-line to get just another body.

4-38 Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas
Bottom Line Slow-twitch power player with rare physical attributes but a lack of functional athleticism to chalk up a stat sheet. Might have been miscast as a 4-3 defensive end considering his lack of quickness and rush talent. But his length and power at the point of attack could make him an attractive Day 3 (Rounds 4-7) draft option for 3-4 teams looking for a two-gapping defensive end with the traits to bounce back from a disappointing senior season.
At the DE position, the Colts currently have Anderson, Langford, Ridgeway, Hunt and McGill. We have room for another young body whom can help close down run gaps and force an opposing offense into passing the ball.

5-14 Elijah Lee, OLB, Kansas State
No NFL.com Draft Profile to pull from. I pulled this from a pretty good video draft profile from a Washington Redskins fan (located here (http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/2/21/14672616/washington-redskins-2017-draft-profiles-elijah-lee-lb)).
Elijah Lee was one of the best defenders in the BIG-12 this past season. He’s an athletic rangy linebacker with sideline to sideline ability. Lee was used as both an inside and outside linebacker while as Kansas State and the answer as to whether he should be used inside or outside will likely differ on the team evaluating him. Lee can make plays from either position. I hesitate to project him as an edge rushing LB in the NFL because his strengths don’t really lie in beating offensive tackles off the edge with his speed or pass rush moves. Lee does excel as a run defender plugging gaps and using his athleticism to shoot through them and make a play. Lee didn’t get a combine invite but he has said his offseason focus is to put on weight and show his athletic ability.

Elijah Lee is an intriguing player that you could play outside or inside but as I’m noticing with most of this year’s mid-round linebackers he has some issues that need to be corrected before he can be thrust out into a starting role. For Lee, it starts with filling out his frame as much as he can without affecting his athleticism (he is 6'3", 228 pounds). Not only does Lee need to add muscle mass he needs to add strength. I think a lot of Lee’s subsequent issues actually stem from that physical standpoint.
Sounds like a poor man's Hasson Reddick. Sounds like a kid whom you can get to play different assignments depending on how you need him (inside on run downs, pass rush on passing downs). Needs to bulk up without slowing down but could see a lot of snaps as a rookie on ST.


In the end, the Colts end up with 2 picks in the secondary, 2 picks at LB, a RB, an OG and a D-Lineman. I don't like the RB or OG picks but I like everyone else.

If Ballard ends up with this type of haul, I would not be disappointed.

Cheers,

[Coltsalr]

Derek Barnett runs an unofficial 4.89 40 time at his Pro Day.

He supposedly has a strained hamstring right now and is "toughing it out", but that's a pretty bad time and a pretty common excuse and mounts concerns upon a guy whose biggest concern is his conditioning.

I'm still not opposed to bringing in a guy that's been that productive at rushing the passer in the SEC and I'd be hard-pressed to pass on him in the 1st round, but more and more, I like the idea of going ILB in the 1st round (Foster/Davis/Cunningham/Reddick) and then edge rusher in the 2nd (Barnett/Williams/Lawson/Harris).

That seems feasible to me, I think.

[VeveJones007]

Derek Barnett runs an unofficial 4.89 40 time at his Pro Day.

He supposedly has a strained hamstring right now and is "toughing it out", but that's a pretty bad time and a pretty common excuse and mounts concerns upon a guy whose biggest concern is his conditioning.

I'm still not opposed to bringing in a guy that's been that productive at rushing the passer in the SEC and I'd be hard-pressed to pass on him in the 1st round, but more and more, I like the idea of going ILB in the 1st round (Foster/Davis/Cunningham/Reddick) and then edge rusher in the 2nd (Barnett/Williams/Lawson/Harris).

That seems feasible to me, I think.

The more concerning this for me when I watch any film on Barnett is his lack of rush moves. The guy is a one-trick pony right now. Unless he gets coached up (which I don't trust from this staff), teams will be able to scheme him out pretty easily.

That's why I'm much higher on Reddick and Harris. Both have eyes for the football and multiple pass rush moves.

[VeveJones007]

5 round mock draft over on NFL.com by Chad Reuter

1-15 Haason Reddick - LB, Temple


I love the concept of using him all over the field sort of like the Texans do with J.J. Watt. ILB on run downs and hand in the dirt pass rusher from anywhere on passing downs.

2-14 Adoree' Jackson, CB, USC


Lack of talent at CB would allow him to take whichever position he can earn on the field (CB2 or Slot) and he could impact the return game in positive ways. Good pick.

3-16 D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas

Hate the pick. Not good in pass protection? Only had 7 pass receptions for the year? One trick pony which is NOT what the Colts offense needs. Don't mind picking a RB with the 3rd round pick if it is the RIGHT running back but I don't think Foreman is that guy.

4-15 John Johnson, S, Boston College

Love that he has experience playing FS and Nickel CB. Sounds like a young Darius Butler honestly. Mix and match where to play him based on package; young players with that type of versatility are worthwhile.

4-31 Sean Harlow, G, Oregon State

Not positive where he fits in the thinking of the guy making the draft. We already have A LOT of "acceptable" options at OG including Schwenke, Haeg, Good and Blythe. If we were going to add someone to the interior of the O-Line, we need a "GOOD" option and not another acceptable option. I guess he is thinking that any additional O-Lineman is an improvement but I would have rather seen this pick at TE than O-line to get just another body.

4-38 Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas

At the DE position, the Colts currently have Anderson, Langford, Ridgeway, Hunt and McGill. We have room for another young body whom can help close down run gaps and force an opposing offense into passing the ball.

5-14 Elijah Lee, OLB, Kansas State
No NFL.com Draft Profile to pull from. I pulled this from a pretty good video draft profile from a Washington Redskins fan (located here (http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/2/21/14672616/washington-redskins-2017-draft-profiles-elijah-lee-lb)).

Sounds like a poor man's Hasson Reddick. Sounds like a kid whom you can get to play different assignments depending on how you need him (inside on run downs, pass rush on passing downs). Needs to bulk up without slowing down but could see a lot of snaps as a rookie on ST.


In the end, the Colts end up with 2 picks in the secondary, 2 picks at LB, a RB, an OG and a D-Lineman. I don't like the RB or OG picks but I like everyone else.

If Ballard ends up with this type of haul, I would not be disappointed.

Cheers,

Regarding Foreman, it depends on what Ballard envisions for the RB position moving forward. If they are sticking with a power scheme, Foreman is a solid pick--no player has ever run as fast as Foreman at his size in pre-draft work.

However, I agree that they need multi-dimensionality from the RB position. Get guys who are a threat out of the backfield and create matchup problems for opposing defenses.

[YDFL Commish]

The more concerning this for me when I watch any film on Barnett is his lack of rush moves. The guy is a one-trick pony right now. Unless he gets coached up (which I don't trust from this staff), teams will be able to scheme him out pretty easily.

That's why I'm much higher on Reddick and Harris. Both have eyes for the football and multiple pass rush moves.

I agree. I was solidly in the Barnett camp until I watched some tape on Harris. He has decent spin move, a good rip move and uses the bull rush at times.

[Wyatt]

@DraftAnalyst1
Pro Day March 30: Colts GM on the Houston campus...heach coach at Boise State pro day...more on Basham http://draftanalyst.com/pro-day-march-30 …

Ballard meets with Houston OLB Tyus Bowser and CB Brandon Wilson

[VeveJones007]

I agree. I was solidly in the Barnett camp until I watched some tape on Harris. He has decent spin move, a good rip move and uses the bull rush at times.

Yep, and watch his eyes when he rushes the passer. He does a great job identifying where the QB is going to move in the pocket and then using whatever move will help him get there.

[VeveJones007]

@DraftAnalyst1
Pro Day March 30: Colts GM on the Houston campus...heach coach at Boise State pro day...more on Basham http://draftanalyst.com/pro-day-march-30 …

Ballard meets with Houston OLB Tyus Bowser and CB Brandon Wilson

It was a few months ago, but Matt Miller had Wilson to the Colts at 2.14. He had Bowser around pick #100 (3rd round comp), but has said that his stock is definitely going up.

Edit: It was actually CB Howard Wilson he had to the Colts. Not sure if Draft Analyst is confusing the two. But I can see why the Colts would have interest in Brandon Wilson too.

[natagu23]

Derek Barnett runs an unofficial 4.89 40 time at his Pro Day.

He supposedly has a strained hamstring right now and is "toughing it out", but that's a pretty bad time and a pretty common excuse and mounts concerns upon a guy whose biggest concern is his conditioning.

I'm still not opposed to bringing in a guy that's been that productive at rushing the passer in the SEC and I'd be hard-pressed to pass on him in the 1st round, but more and more, I like the idea of going ILB in the 1st round (Foster/Davis/Cunningham/Reddick) and then edge rusher in the 2nd (Barnett/Williams/Lawson/Harris).

That seems feasible to me, I think.

The 40 time doesnt really concern me as long as its not 5.0 or >.

Barnett's lack of explosiveness is more of a concern.

You can lack speed, but you have to be able to fire off the ball and have a good first step.

He strikes me as a low ceiling, decent floor kinda guy who could potentially flop under poor coaching, and guess what we have plenty of?

[natagu23]

In contrast to Barnett, Hasson Reddick is one more explosive players in the draft.

[Dam8610]

Derek Barnett runs an unofficial 4.89 40 time at his Pro Day.

He supposedly has a strained hamstring right now and is "toughing it out", but that's a pretty bad time and a pretty common excuse and mounts concerns upon a guy whose biggest concern is his conditioning.

I'm still not opposed to bringing in a guy that's been that productive at rushing the passer in the SEC and I'd be hard-pressed to pass on him in the 1st round, but more and more, I like the idea of going ILB in the 1st round (Foster/Davis/Cunningham/Reddick) and then edge rusher in the 2nd (Barnett/Williams/Lawson/Harris).

That seems feasible to me, I think.

If the Colts take Reddick, it won't be to play ILB.

[VeveJones007]

If the Colts take Reddick, it won't be to play ILB.

100% agree with this. I think way too much is being made out of Reddick's size (237 lbs). Guys like Clay Matthews and Robert Mathis certainly proved to have great careers on the EDGE when "undersized."

I don't think he'll be there, though. I'd be shocked if he isn't in the top 10 after his last three months.

[njcoltfan]

And Peppers is that much faster than Clayton.... But I think we are good at Safety. No need to mess around there

Imagine if you will, how much better the Colts would be if they drafted Collins instead of the midget Dorrsett!!

[Butter]

Imagine if you will, how much better the Colts would be if they drafted Collins instead of the midget Dorrsett!!

Certainly better, but not enough to have made much difference.

[natagu23]

Imagine if you will, how much better the Colts would be if they drafted Collins instead of the midget Dorrsett!!

Part of the problem is that we're not utilizing Dorsett nearly enough or the way he is supposed to used.

You pair Dorsett with Rodgers or Brady..... 800+ yard season and other accomplishments are practically a given.

[Dam8610]

100% agree with this. I think way too much is being made out of Reddick's size (237 lbs). Guys like Clay Matthews and Robert Mathis certainly proved to have great careers on the EDGE when "undersized."

I don't think he'll be there, though. I'd be shocked if he isn't in the top 10 after his last three months.

Don't forget James Harrison.

[VeveJones007]

Part of the problem is that we're not utilizing Dorsett nearly enough or the way he is supposed to used.

You pair Dorsett with Rodgers or Brady..... 800+ yard season and other accomplishments are practically a given.

800 yards from a 1st round WR is a waste of a pick. Those guys have to be true difference makers.

[natagu23]

800 yards from a 1st round WR is a waste of a pick. Those guys have to be true difference makers.

I could be wrong, but Dorsett is not one of those guys unfortunately.

A good slot receiver......maybe???

[VeveJones007]

I could be wrong, but Dorsett is not one of those guys unfortunately.

A good slot receiver......maybe???

I've stuck my flag squarely in the "Dorsett sucks, regardless the coaching" camp. We'll see if I'm wrong, but all I've seen is a guy who can stretch a defense.

[smitty46953]

I've stuck my flag squarely in the "Dorsett sucks, regardless the coaching" camp. We'll see if I'm wrong, but all I've seen is a guy who can stretch a defense.

I agree, I know some were ok with that pick... However, I fired Grigson right after that pick in my mind. :cool:

[njcoltfan]

Certainly better, but not enough to have made much difference.

Let's see, Dorsett is on the verge of being a bust, and Collins is an All-Pro, I think the defense would be light years better, not to mention that had the Colts drafted Collins they probably would not have drafted Green!!

[Butter]

One Safety is not going to make this D "Light years" better.

[YDFL Commish]

I've stuck my flag squarely in the "Dorsett sucks, regardless the coaching" camp. We'll see if I'm wrong, but all I've seen is a guy who can stretch a defense.

I'm not going to disagree. To this point Dorsett has sucked. But at the same time I believe that he's not being used properly.

How many times has been thrown a slant?

How many times has he been thrown a bubble screen?

How many times has he been thrown a crossing pattern?

None of the passes I mentioned above are difficult route concepts, even for a college WR. So, it's not that Dorsett can't run the routes.

I don't know what it is, but since Arians left, Pep and Chud have basically made defense only have to defend the middle to the deep portions of the field vertically.

I don't know if it's Luck's preference or a Pagano thing. But you just can't win in this day and age without making the defense defend the whole field.

[njcoltfan]

One Safety is not going to make this D "Light years" better.

You can't be saying that with a straight face

[Butter]

You can't be saying that with a straight face

Huh? You really think 1 player let alone a Saftey would makes this D somehow good last season? the lack of pass rush and terrible LB play would not be made up for by even a Bob Sanders.

[apballin]

With the additions in FA our division rivals made I'd expect us to draft O line in the1st to secure that unit vs the tough D lines the will play 6 times

[Coltsalr]

Foster/Cunningham/Davis in the 1st and then Williams/Lawson/Barnett in the 2nd.

Remake our LB corps and then start on the rest.

[Dam8610]

Foster/Cunningham/Davis in the 1st and then Williams/Lawson/Barnett in the 2nd.

Remake our LB corps and then start on the rest.

Cunningham is widely viewed as a 2nd round pick. Reddick/Cunningham sounds like a great first two rounds, though.

[Coltsalr]

Cunningham is widely viewed as a 2nd round pick. Reddick/Cunningham sounds like a great first two rounds, though.

That's what I had previously thought, but he seems to be rising up the boards lately. PFF has him as their #2, behind only Foster and as a Day One guy:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-ranking-the-top-11-linebacker-prospects-of-2017/?utm_content=buffera828f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

I'd love Reddick/Cunningham too, but I think the reality is that it's likely that all of Davis/Cunningham/Foster will be gone by the time we choose at 2/15. With that, I think the need to go ILB in the 1st is that much more pressing since I'm not high on Raekwon McMillian. I'd be fine with trading back in the 1st, if you don't see Davis/Cunningham as being worth #15 overall, but I do think we should ensure we come away with ILB on day one.

[VeveJones007]

I'm not going to disagree. To this point Dorsett has sucked. But at the same time I believe that he's not being used properly.

How many times has been thrown a slant?

How many times has he been thrown a bubble screen?

How many times has he been thrown a crossing pattern?

None of the passes I mentioned above are difficult route concepts, even for a college WR. So, it's not that Dorsett can't run the routes.

I don't know what it is, but since Arians left, Pep and Chud have basically made defense only have to defend the middle to the deep portions of the field vertically.

I don't know if it's Luck's preference or a Pagano thing. But you just can't win in this day and age without making the defense defend the whole field.

There are too many times that he doesn't separate from a LB. That's egregious for a WR of his supposed skill-set.

[omahacolt]

There are too many times that he doesn't separate from a LB. That's egregious for a WR of his supposed skill-set.

I don't recall that happening once

[natagu23]

I don't recall that happening once

Me either.

[VeveJones007]

I don't recall that happening once

Meh. Don't have a pass to archived games. Feel free to ignore it now, but try to watch for it in 2017.

[Coltsalr]

More and more, I'm really thinking that we should look to trade back in the 1st round.

Feel free to play around with the numbers, but the bottom line is, at #15, the value for that pick would be trading it for #25 and #57 (no we won't be getting those particular picks, Houston has them, but you get the idea, play around with the numbers) which I would do in a heartbeat. There's going to be plenty of value in the 1st/2nd round it appears, so getting more picks is the way to go, particularly when you consider the complete talent depletion that we have, we seem very primed to do so.

This is of course all contingent on how the board plays out. If Reuben Foster drops unexpectedly, then by all means, stay put.

Edited to add, here's the NFL Draft value chart:

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

[Butter]

I am certainly not opposed to that idea if the right deal is there. We need so many pieces.

[VeveJones007]

More and more, I'm really thinking that we should look to trade back in the 1st round.

Feel free to play around with the numbers, but the bottom line is, at #15, the value for that pick would be trading it for #25 and #57 (no we won't be getting those particular picks, Houston has them, but you get the idea, play around with the numbers) which I would do in a heartbeat. There's going to be plenty of value in the 1st/2nd round it appears, so getting more picks is the way to go, particularly when you consider the complete talent depletion that we have, we seem very primed to do so.

This is of course all contingent on how the board plays out. If Reuben Foster drops unexpectedly, then by all means, stay put.

I think the best bet would be if Trubisky and Watson are off the board and a team wants to make sure they get their QB (Mahomes? Kizer?) at 15.

[ukcolt]

I really like Reddick, but feel that he is far more suited to play in a 4-3 defensive scheme, as he is a bit too light to handle the outside duties in a 3-4. I don't want to be drafting guys who 'might' fit our scheme, i want guys who have already proven that they fit at the position we will be using them in. Not projects moving from college DE to a 3-4 OLB role.

[ukcolt]

It's the same with Anthony Walker from Northwestern....i think that he is going to end up being a tremendous MLB in a 4-3, but he needs to be covered up by the defensive line and free to make plays......and is not strong enough to be the same player in a 3-4.

[VeveJones007]

I really like Reddick, but feel that he is far more suited to play in a 4-3 defensive scheme, as he is a bit too light to handle the outside duties in a 3-4. I don't want to be drafting guys who 'might' fit our scheme, i want guys who have already proven that they fit at the position we will be using them in. Not projects moving from college DE to a 3-4 OLB role.

Hassan Reddick 6'1 237

Robert Mathis 6'2 245
James Harrison 6'0 242
Clay Matthews 6'3 245

Can we just pin this for when people say that Reddick is too light to play EDGE?

[Coltsalr]

More and more, I'm really thinking that we should look to trade back in the 1st round.

Feel free to play around with the numbers, but the bottom line is, at #15, the value for that pick would be trading it for #25 and #57 (no we won't be getting those particular picks, Houston has them, but you get the idea, play around with the numbers) which I would do in a heartbeat. There's going to be plenty of value in the 1st/2nd round it appears, so getting more picks is the way to go, particularly when you consider the complete talent depletion that we have, we seem very primed to do so.

This is of course all contingent on how the board plays out. If Reuben Foster drops unexpectedly, then by all means, stay put.

Edited to add, here's the NFL Draft value chart:

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

My bad guys, I forgot to add the NFL Draft Value Chart, here it is below as well:

http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

[smitty46953]

Hassan Reddick 6'1 237

Robert Mathis 6'2 245
James Harrison 6'0 242
Clay Matthews 6'3 245

Can we just pin this for when people say that Reddick is too light to play EDGE?

He could come to Pucks next cookout and be 250 with no problem ... :cool:

[natagu23]

I hesitate about James Harrison because he is stout and pretty thick and can hold that edge.

His problem was length.

Pass rushing is one thing, but holding your own against a tackle in the run game is another.

[Puck]

One Safety is not going to make this D "Light years" better.


And don't forget Collins sucked his rookie yr. And would've continued to suck here because we have no one that could have coached him up

[Dam8610]

Hassan Reddick 6'1 237

Robert Mathis 6'2 245
James Harrison 6'0 242
Clay Matthews 6'3 245

Can we just pin this for when people say that Reddick is too light to play EDGE?

Can we also add that teams regularly draft players and have them add 10-15 pounds of good weight through their offseason strength and conditioning program?

[Mr. Session]

I hesitate about James Harrison because he is stout and pretty thick and can hold that edge.

His problem was length.

Pass rushing is one thing, but holding your own against a tackle in the run game is another.

All of these examples of undersized players at the position are of exceptional players.

That doesn't make me feel better, it makes me apprehensive.

Is the tape so great that Reddick looks like a future HOF/All Pro player at the position? I liked his tape but I don't come away feeling that way.

[YDFL Commish]

All of these examples of undersized players at the position are of exceptional players.

That doesn't make me feel better, it makes me apprehensive.

Is the tape so great that Reddick looks like a future HOF/All Pro player at the position? I liked his tape but I don't come away feeling that way.

To me he looks like a guy in the right system, with the right coaching, playing his best position and with the right weight and conditioning program, could become a great one.

But that's a lot of if's.

Reddick and Jabril Peppers are kind of wildcards, I love their talent and motors...but dowe have the staff to take them to the next level?

[Dam8610]

All of these examples of undersized players at the position are of exceptional players.

That doesn't make me feel better, it makes me apprehensive.

Is the tape so great that Reddick looks like a future HOF/All Pro player at the position? I liked his tape but I don't come away feeling that way.

1) Reddick looked like an impact player on all the tape I watched of him. He also didn't seem weak in any area while being used all over the field. He stuck with WRs (albeit collegiate ones) in coverage, typically played his assignments well, showed a great talent for bending the edge, and displayed some pass rush moves that could improve, but weren't completely undeveloped. No one's tape is of a future HOF/All-Pro until they get into the league and prove it, but if you go back and look at the ones who did get there, you'll probably see a lot of tape like what I described above.

2) The point is that his size is not something that eliminates his ability to play 3-4 OLB. Of course people are going to point out the best examples, but that doesn't mean other examples don't exist. Sure, the "prototypical" 3-4 OLB is 6'4" 260, but if you look around the league, a lot of teams that run a 3-4 have OLBs that are closer to 6'2" 250.

[Dam8610]

To me he looks like a guy in the right system, with the right coaching, playing his best position and with the right weight and conditioning program, could become a great one.

But that's a lot of if's.

Reddick and Jabril Peppers are kind of wildcards, I love their talent and motors...but dowe have the staff to take them to the next level?

The draft is a crapshoot. You could say there are "if"s about just about any player, even Myles Garrett. Typically the player that has the least "if"s about him goes 1.1.

[VeveJones007]

All of these examples of undersized players at the position are of exceptional players.

That doesn't make me feel better, it makes me apprehensive.

Is the tape so great that Reddick looks like a future HOF/All Pro player at the position? I liked his tape but I don't come away feeling that way.

Look back to the UKColt post I originally responded to. Due to Reddick's size, UKColt ruled out Reddick as a 3-4 EDGE.

All I did was invalidate the assumption that someone Reddick's size could not succeed at 3-4 EDGE.

[sherck]

PFF Ranked their "Top 100" Draft Prospects today (located here (https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-draft-board-top-100-prospects-of-2017/)).

In the 1-15 range:
12. Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU
13. Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
14. Carl Lewson, OLB, Auburn
15. Solomon Thomas, 3-tech DT or 5-tech DE, Stanford
16. Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
17. O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama
18. John Ross, WR, Washington

In the 2-14 range (#46 overall):
43. Caleb Brantley, 3-tech DT, Florida
44. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
45. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
46. Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M
47. Takkarist McKinley, OLB, UCLA
48. Quincy Jones, CB, Florida
49. Taylor Moton, OG/OT, Western Michigan

In the 3-16 range (#80 overall):
77. Tanzel Smart, 3-tech DT/5-tech DE, Tulane
78. Carolos Henderson, WR, Louisina Tech
79. Delano Hill, S, Michigan
80. Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama
81. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
82. Budda Baker, S, Washington
83. Tanoh Kpassagnon, 3-tech DT/5-tech DE, Villanova

Not that it will work out this way, but give me D-Line Solomon Thomas in the 1st round, CB Sidney Jones in the 2nd round and OLB Ryan Anderson in the 3rd round and I would be thrilled.

Add CB, TE and RB in the 4th round and a NT in the 5th round and call it a draft.

I know that where folks are actually drafted will almost always be very different than were every pundit in the world puts them but that is why mock drafting is SO much fun! :)

Cheers,

[FatDT]

Good chance Solomon Thomas is gone by our pick. But I'd like to have him on the team.

[sherck]

Good chance Solomon Thomas is gone by our pick. But I'd like to have him on the team.
I don't disagree with you but it has been interesting to see him "sliding" a bit in a lot of mock drafts from a sure-fire top five pick two months ago to a top ten pick last month to a top 15 pick in a few mock drafts over the past couple of weeks.

I honestly don't see him lasting until #15 but there are a lot of guys that "experts" say every year "should" be picked here or there that the NFL ends up disagreeing with.

However, I am working on studying some guys but I am becoming more firmly convinced that there is great value at the bottom of the 1st round to be had and that the Colts could pick up some more picks in the 3rd and 4th round range by moving back and still getting a quality prospect that I like nearly as well (or better) than the guys projected in the mid-round range.

In the end, the draft is a crap-shoot. I hope Ballard picks good ones no matter where we are picking from.

Cheers,

[sherck]

Marrying up two things:
However, as a thought exercise:

Indy trades 1-15 to Denver (who is a good team who needs superstars to become great) for 1-20, 3-18 (#82) and 5-34 (#178).

Indy trades 1-20 to Seattle (who is a good team who needs superstars to become great) for 1-26, 3-26 (#90) and 6-26 (#210).

Both those trades have almost exactly the same "trade value" from the NFL trade charts.

Indy now has:

1-26 (#26)

2-14 (#46)

3-16 (#80)
3-18 (#82)
3-26 (#90)

4-15 (#121)
4-31 (#137)
4-38 (#144)

5-14 (#158)
5-34 (#177)

6-26 (#210)
Along with the PFF "Top 100" Draftee ranking chart (located here (https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-draft-board-top-100-prospects-of-2017/)), we get:

1-26 T.J. Watt, OLB, Wisconsin
The biggest concern with Watt is whether or not he’s a one-year wonder. Physically, though, there’s not much he can’t do. At 6-foot-4, 252 pounds, Watt put up fantastic explosive and change-of-direction numbers at the combine. That meshes with what we saw of him at Wisconsin, where he was arguably the most impressive of anyone in this class at closing on ball carriers in space. He’s still raw as a pass-rusher, as a good deal of his 56 QB pressures a season ago came unblocked, but the ability is there.

2-14 Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida
Wilson didn’t grade as well as the stats would indicate, but he capped his Florida career allowing a passer rating of only 45.8 into his coverage over the last three seasons. He moves well for his size and knows how to play the ball in both press and off coverage. He’ll get beaten at times when trying to press, but there’s a lot to like about his game, and he’s diverse enough to fit multiple schemes.

3-16 Tanzel Smart, 3-tech DT, Tulane
Although shorter than ideal at just a shade over 6-foot, Smart monopolizes that advantage in leverage consistently. Sufficient length offsets his height deficiency significantly. A low center of gravity and powerful arms combine to facilitate probably the best bull-rush in the class. It is a joy to watch Smart tossing and toying with lineman who are helplessly hoping to re-anchor against the tide that is the former Green Wave product. Attempts to blow him off the ball in the ground game are also fruitless. In fact, Smart is much more likely to win his battles against the run. He flashed astounding ability to change direction in the backfield, consistently regaining his balance to fly to the football and generate tackles for loss. Smart could stand to improve as a tackler, but he represents one of the more consistently disruptive interior defenders in the class. (Would allow Anderson to play 3-tech DT or 5-tech DE as scheme required.)

3-18 Delano Hill, S, Michigan
What Hill lacks in flash he makes up for with consistency. He proved at the combine that he has the size and athleticism to translate his game to the NFL (4.47-second 40 at 6-foot-1 and 216 pounds), and his senior year production also bodes well. He allowed just 22 receptions on 40 throws into his coverage last season, and defended a total of seven passes.

3-26 Raekwon McMillan, ILB, Ohio State
Running a 4.61 40 at the combine was critical for Raekwon McMillan, because his play in coverage at Ohio State is likely to leave some NFL teams worried about his viability on third down. He finished his college career in style with 25 stops in his last four games, and is a very good tackler who consistently wraps up. While some teams may like his leadership and production enough to take him early on Day 2, his average change of direction and playing speed, combined with some struggles against blocks, suggests he is a better value toward the end of Day 2 in the third round.

Use our three 4th round picks on CB, RB, TE and our three 5th/6th round picks on NT and depth and we would be cooking on oil.

Anyway, I am sure that Ballard's draft looks nothing like this but....

[[OF NOTE: The only player on this list that can be found to be "rated" wildly different from PFF ratings is that McMillian would be available at the bottom of the 3rd round. Chad Reuter over at NFL.com has him going in the middle of the 2nd round in his 5 round mock. Walter Football has him being draftable anywhere from the 2nd round through the 4th round. However, Walter Football's Mock Draft has him going at 3-15 (#79 overall) so that is within the ball park.]]

Anyway, I want more draft picks!

Cheers,

[sherck]

Okay, last post for a while in the draft thread. I found a 5-round mock on Walter Football that indicates that someone understands the weaknesses of the Colts:

1-15 (#015) ILB Reuban Foster, Alabama
Foster is a vicious hitter with elite playmaking range and an ability to toggle between 225 and 240 pounds. Athleticism gives him cover ability that former teammate Reggie Ragland never possessed. Has Pro Bowl potential as a 3-4 inside linebacker or a 4-3 weak-side linebacker, but concerns over his medical history could be a consideration, according to some teams.

2-14 (#046) OLB Charles Harris, Missouri
High-cut pass rusher with good athleticism but concerns regarding his ability to drop anchor against the run. Ironically, Harris might be best suited as a penetrator which is something he fought against this season. His hands can be improved as pass rush weapons, but he has agility and footwork that can't be taught. Harris can play on the edge in a 4-3 or 3-4 front and should be the next in a line of early contributing defensive ends coming out of Missouri.

3-16 (#080) CB Cameron Sutton, Tennessee
Four-year starter with the fluidity to handle man coverage on the outside, but lacking desired physicality and run-support traits that zone teams covet. Sutton flashed outstanding ball production his first two seasons but saw his per-game production drop since. Could be forced inside due to a lack of size on next level. Punt-return ability could be what gets him on the field first.

4-15 (#121) ILB Anthony Walker, Northwestern
Has packed muscle onto his frame that looks good in the uniform but might be limiting his flexibility and athletic ability. A productive, downhill linebacker who misses too many tackles and struggles as a take-on player. He checks all the desired boxes for football and personal character and can be counted on to do what it takes to improve his game. He could become a decent starting linebacker within his first few years.

4-31 (#137) RB Samaje Perine, OklahomaPerine is a physical runner who can create additional yardage through power and can be a complimentary "banger" for a team who already has a slasher. Perine doesn't have the burst or play speed to be a dynamic lead back, but he can handle a heavy workload if needed and he should become an immediate short-yardage and goal-line option.

4-38 (#144) CB Rasul Douglas, West Virginia
Douglas has rare size for the position and his 2016 interception total will add to the level of intrigue for NFL teams. There is no doubting Douglas' ability to make plays on the ball when he's in position, but his lack of long speed and closing burst could make his big senior season an anomaly. Douglas is a zone corner with press and trail ability but needs to run a reasonable time at the combine to solidify his draft slotting. (Note: Ran a 4.59 at combine.)

5-14 (#158) NT Josh Tupou, Colorado
Does one thing and one thing only -- eat up space. Doesn't have enough reactive quickness or even functional movement to find himself in many plays that aren't right at him, but his size and anchor gives him a shot with a team who values pure girth for early downs.

Foster in the first and Harris in the 2nd round are probably stretches for being available but this kind of draft could really help the Colts.

Cheers,

[njcoltfan]

PFF Ranked their "Top 100" Draft Prospects today (located here (https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-draft-board-top-100-prospects-of-2017/)).

In the 1-15 range:
12. Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU
13. Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
14. Carl Lewson, OLB, Auburn
15. Solomon Thomas, 3-tech DT or 5-tech DE, Stanford
16. Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
17. O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama
18. John Ross, WR, Washington

In the 2-14 range (#46 overall):
43. Caleb Brantley, 3-tech DT, Florida
44. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
45. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
46. Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M
47. Takkarist McKinley, OLB, UCLA
48. Quincy Jones, CB, Florida
49. Taylor Moton, OG/OT, Western Michigan

In the 3-16 range (#80 overall):
77. Tanzel Smart, 3-tech DT/5-tech DE, Tulane
78. Carolos Henderson, WR, Louisina Tech
79. Delano Hill, S, Michigan
80. Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama
81. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
82. Budda Baker, S, Washington
83. Tanoh Kpassagnon, 3-tech DT/5-tech DE, Villanova

Not that it will work out this way, but give me D-Line Solomon Thomas in the 1st round, CB Sidney Jones in the 2nd round and OLB Ryan Anderson in the 3rd round and I would be thrilled.

Add CB, TE and RB in the 4th round and a NT in the 5th round and call it a draft.

I know that where folks are actually drafted will almost always be very different than were every pundit in the world puts them but that is why mock drafting is SO much fun! :)

Cheers,

I'll take Thomas, McKinley and Baker and be thrilled !!!!

[Dam8610]

Okay, last post for a while in the draft thread. I found a 5-round mock on Walter Football that indicates that someone understands the weaknesses of the Colts:

1-15 (#015) ILB Reuban Foster, Alabama
Foster is a vicious hitter with elite playmaking range and an ability to toggle between 225 and 240 pounds. Athleticism gives him cover ability that former teammate Reggie Ragland never possessed. Has Pro Bowl potential as a 3-4 inside linebacker or a 4-3 weak-side linebacker, but concerns over his medical history could be a consideration, according to some teams.

2-14 (#046) OLB Charles Harris, Missouri
High-cut pass rusher with good athleticism but concerns regarding his ability to drop anchor against the run. Ironically, Harris might be best suited as a penetrator which is something he fought against this season. His hands can be improved as pass rush weapons, but he has agility and footwork that can't be taught. Harris can play on the edge in a 4-3 or 3-4 front and should be the next in a line of early contributing defensive ends coming out of Missouri.

3-16 (#080) CB Cameron Sutton, Tennessee
Four-year starter with the fluidity to handle man coverage on the outside, but lacking desired physicality and run-support traits that zone teams covet. Sutton flashed outstanding ball production his first two seasons but saw his per-game production drop since. Could be forced inside due to a lack of size on next level. Punt-return ability could be what gets him on the field first.

4-15 (#121) ILB Anthony Walker, Northwestern
Has packed muscle onto his frame that looks good in the uniform but might be limiting his flexibility and athletic ability. A productive, downhill linebacker who misses too many tackles and struggles as a take-on player. He checks all the desired boxes for football and personal character and can be counted on to do what it takes to improve his game. He could become a decent starting linebacker within his first few years.

4-31 (#137) RB Samaje Perine, OklahomaPerine is a physical runner who can create additional yardage through power and can be a complimentary "banger" for a team who already has a slasher. Perine doesn't have the burst or play speed to be a dynamic lead back, but he can handle a heavy workload if needed and he should become an immediate short-yardage and goal-line option.

4-38 (#144) CB Rasul Douglas, West Virginia
Douglas has rare size for the position and his 2016 interception total will add to the level of intrigue for NFL teams. There is no doubting Douglas' ability to make plays on the ball when he's in position, but his lack of long speed and closing burst could make his big senior season an anomaly. Douglas is a zone corner with press and trail ability but needs to run a reasonable time at the combine to solidify his draft slotting. (Note: Ran a 4.59 at combine.)

5-14 (#158) NT Josh Tupou, Colorado
Does one thing and one thing only -- eat up space. Doesn't have enough reactive quickness or even functional movement to find himself in many plays that aren't right at him, but his size and anchor gives him a shot with a team who values pure girth for early downs.

Foster in the first and Harris in the 2nd round are probably stretches for being available but this kind of draft could really help the Colts.

Cheers,

I could live with this.

[VeveJones007]

Foster and Harris would be a home run in rounds 1 & 2. No way either player is available at those picks, though.

[HoosierinFL]

I suspect we are definitely drafting a TE in round 3 or 4 anyway so any mock that omits that will be wrong.

[VeveJones007]

I suspect we are definitely drafting a TE in round 3 or 4 anyway so any mock that omits that will be wrong.

Why do you say that? They are high on Swoope and need to see if he continues to perform with more playing time. Do you really want to add a TE in round 3 or 4 who is on the bench for most of the year when you could potentially add a solid defender?

[YDFL Commish]

I don't know who is reliable as far as mock drafts and player rankings go. It is truly becoming bizarre.

I've seen some players going anywhere from the early 1st round to the 3rd round, depending on who's mock draft you're looking at.

So the quandary is, trust the talking heads, or do your own film study and decide from there?

Bottom line is though, there are only probably a handful of players in each round that you can accurately predict will be chosen in that round.

[VeveJones007]

I don't know who is reliable as far as mock drafts and player rankings go. It is truly becoming bizarre.

I've seen some players going anywhere from the early 1st round to the 3rd round, depending on who's mock draft you're looking at.

So the quandary is, trust the talking heads, or do your own film study and decide from there?

Bottom line is though, there are only probably a handful of players in each round that you can accurately predict will be chosen in that round.

I like to rely on the guys who put in the film study, have sources around the league, and do not have connections with player agents. That last point is what gets Kiper into trouble. He routinely overrates players because he's doing the agent a favor.

All those things considered, I like to look at what Matt Miller says first and foremost.

[Butter]

That last point is what gets Kiper into trouble.

Sure, but the hair. That has to count for something.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/144947177/mel_kiper_raging_hair_helmet.jpg

[VeveJones007]

Sure, but the hair. That has to count for something.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/144947177/mel_kiper_raging_hair_helmet.jpg

Hair + snarl = gold

[natagu23]

I'll take Thomas, McKinley and Baker and be thrilled !!!!

Thomas?

Not a chance. Most mocks i see now have him going right behind Garrett at number 2.

[natagu23]

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

[sherck]

So, if your choice was to:

A) Stand pat at 1-15 and pick from one of: Derek Barnett, Hasson Riddick or Takkarist McKinley.

B) Or trade down into the 20s to pick up an additional mid-round selections and pick from one of: Charles Harris, T.J. Watt, Taco Charleston.

Which scenario do you prefer?

I guess my real scenario is; there appears to be an "elite" grouping of front-7 defenders that includes: Myles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster. Those guys are almost always picked by just about everyone in or near the top ten.

Then? Lots of diverging opinions.

Is Hasson Riddick a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Derek Barnett a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Takkarist McKinley a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Taco Charleston a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?

T.J. Watt? Charles Harris? Both seem to be a bottom of the 1st round or top of the 2nd round picks.

Do you like Riddick, Barnett, McKinley or Charleston better than Watt or Harris?

I love the idea of moving down if possible to fill more holes and I just don't know if I see a lot of difference between those guys once you get past the "elite" bunch.

Does anyone else?

Cheers,

[YDFL Commish]

Pray there's a trade partner out there, and trade down.

[Coltsalr]

So, if your choice was to:

A) Stand pat at 1-15 and pick from one of: Derek Barnett, Hasson Riddick or Takkarist McKinley.

B) Or trade down into the 20s to pick up an additional mid-round selections and pick from one of: Charles Harris, T.J. Watt, Taco Charleston.

Which scenario do you prefer?

I guess my real scenario is; there appears to be an "elite" grouping of front-7 defenders that includes: Myles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster. Those guys are almost always picked by just about everyone in or near the top ten.

Then? Lots of diverging opinions.

Is Hasson Riddick a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Derek Barnett a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Takkarist McKinley a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Taco Charleston a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?

T.J. Watt? Charles Harris? Both seem to be a bottom of the 1st round or top of the 2nd round picks.

Do you like Riddick, Barnett, McKinley or Charleston better than Watt or Harris?

I love the idea of moving down if possible to fill more holes and I just don't know if I see a lot of difference between those guys once you get past the "elite" bunch.

Does anyone else?

Cheers,

Can I take one of Zach Cunningham/Jarrad Davis over Charlton/Harris/McKinley?

Because that's my choice. Derek Barnett though would be tempting.

I wouldn't trade down until the pick, though. If Reuben Foster does drop to us, as some Mocks are predicting (no, I don't personally see it), then you grab him. Else, I think you trade out.

[Coltsalr]

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

I (as well as most of the dorks on here) know who he is and I have nothing against him and I bet he would indeed help solidify this line and with Ballard previously having been interested in an OG in free agency and with him hinting that he's not sure that our starting 5 is currently on the roster, part of me really thinks he's going to go in that direction.

I really think though that our needs at LB are too dire for us to go in any other direction with the 1st pick. No, Ballard didn't ignore the position or stock it stupidly like Grigson did (who tried both, and both failed miserably, go figure), but I think there's still a dire need for an injection of talent at that position.

[ukcolt]

I would prefer to trade down and still get one of the better corners such as Teez Tabor or Kevin King, towards the end of the 1st round, then select Carlos Watkins at DE, in the 2nd.

A mid to late round guy who i absolutely love is the corner back William Likely from Maryland.....he might very well have been the best corner in the nation last year before he tore up his ACL, but he is tiny at only 5'7" and is only going to be able to play the slot role in the NFL.

[ukcolt]

As Sherk has indicated a few times recently i would love to be able to stock pile a few more mid round picks, as i believe that this draft is absolutely loaded in the late 2nd through the the 4th rounds.

Guys such as:
CB Rasul Douglas
DE Carlos Watckins
SS Budda Baker
CB Jourdan Lewis
CB Sidney Jones
ILB Kendell Beckwith
ILB Alex Anzalone
DE Tanoh Kpassagnon
SS Marcus Maye
SS Obi Melifonwu
FS Eddie Jackson
NT Eddie Vanderdoes
NT Steve Tu'Ikolovatu

Any of these guys could potentially become significant contributors almost instantly.

This is just looking at the defensive side of the ball, there are about a dozen running backs, offensive linemen and Tight Ends who also could become very strong contributors for the Colts sooner rather than later who fit into this range of the draft. I wouldn't be against trading away our 5th, 6th and 7th rounders in 2018 to pick up an additional 4th this year.

[Coltsalr]

Marcus Maye is a guy I really like that I'd love to get with one of our 4th round picks. I think he'd be a great get at that position. I know he might be a bit redundant with Clayton Geathers, but let's let Geathers come back from that neck injury he had before we confidently turn down guys that might be similar in playing style to him.

[VeveJones007]

So, if your choice was to:

A) Stand pat at 1-15 and pick from one of: Derek Barnett, Hasson Riddick or Takkarist McKinley.

B) Or trade down into the 20s to pick up an additional mid-round selections and pick from one of: Charles Harris, T.J. Watt, Taco Charleston.

Which scenario do you prefer?

I guess my real scenario is; there appears to be an "elite" grouping of front-7 defenders that includes: Myles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen and Reuben Foster. Those guys are almost always picked by just about everyone in or near the top ten.

Then? Lots of diverging opinions.

Is Hasson Riddick a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Derek Barnett a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Takkarist McKinley a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?
Is Taco Charleston a middle of the 1st round pick or a bottom of the 1st round pick?

T.J. Watt? Charles Harris? Both seem to be a bottom of the 1st round or top of the 2nd round picks.

Do you like Riddick, Barnett, McKinley or Charleston better than Watt or Harris?

I love the idea of moving down if possible to fill more holes and I just don't know if I see a lot of difference between those guys once you get past the "elite" bunch.

Does anyone else?

Cheers,

It's a tough call. I think Reddick could be a similar player to Robert Mathis with his explosive athleticism. That's hard to pass up at 15.

That being said, Reddick won't be there and Barnett/Taco aren't good enough to bypass a chance to move down. I'm hoping for a trade down and grabbing Harris later in Rd 1.

[HoosierinFL]

Why do you say that? They are high on Swoope and need to see if he continues to perform with more playing time. Do you really want to add a TE in round 3 or 4 who is on the bench for most of the year when you could potentially add a solid defender?

They just about flat out said the main reason they were willing to trade Allen was because they were excited about the TE depth in this draft and wanted more picks. To me this means they thought they could get rid of Allen's larger contract and injury history and draft a replacement.

[Dam8610]

It's a tough call. I think Reddick could be a similar player to Robert Mathis with his explosive athleticism. That's hard to pass up at 15.

That being said, Reddick won't be there and Barnett/Taco aren't good enough to bypass a chance to move down. I'm hoping for a trade down and grabbing Harris later in Rd 1.

If the Colts end up trading to the back of the first round, I'm hoping they'll take T.J. Watt at that point, but I'd prefer to get Reddick at 15.

[sherck]

If the Colts end up trading to the back of the first round, I'm hoping they'll take T.J. Watt at that point, but I'd prefer to get Reddick at 15.

My thought process for the first round:

Option A = If one of the "elite" defenders falls to 1-15 (OLB Myles Garrett, 3-tech DT Jonathan Allen, S Jamal Adams, CB Marshon Lattimore, 3-tech DT Solomon Thomas or ILB Reuben Foster) then you take them regardless of position. Their chances to be long-term impactful players are excellent.

Option B = If none of the "elite" defenders are available but either 1) Derek Barnett or 2) Hasson Riddick are available you draft them at 1-15.

Option C = If none of the above are available, you trade back to the mid 20s (1 or 2 jumps back) and you pick 1) T.J. Watt, 2) Charles Harris, 3) Taco Charleston or 4) Carl Lawson.

I think Watt has the makings of an elite pass rusher, much like his brother. I think he needs to add another 15-20 pounds of muscle to his frame but I think he is a guy that you can move all over the field to get a good matchup.

I don't mind Charles Harris or Carl Lawson or Taco Charleston but I want one of Barnett, Riddick or Watt.

I would pass on Tim Williams (too dumb to pick up Alabama defensive system?), Jordan Willis (one trick pony with outside rush only), Malik McDowell (I don't see dominance), Zach Cunningham (little pass rush ability) or Takkarist McKinley (did not learn any technique in 3 years at UCLA, unteachable?).

As a later round pass rusher, I like Washington's Joe Mathis. He is probably a 1st round draft pick if his season had not been cut short after only 6 games in 2016. He probably will not contribute much in 2017 but he would be drafted for the future.

Cheers,

[natagu23]

Trade back.

Grab Gareon Conley at corner later in the first and pick up a couple of picks.

Sherck might like this little tidbit....Conley had the lowest QB rating in the nation when targeted according to PFF.

Conley is the 2nd best Corner in the draft imo. He could easily turn into a pro-bowler if he learns to use his hands more.

[VeveJones007]

Trade back.

Grab Gareon Conley at corner later in the first and pick up a couple of picks.

Sherck might like this little tidbit....Conley had the lowest QB rating in the nation when targeted according to PFF.

Conley is the 2nd best Corner in the draft imo. He could easily turn into a pro-bowler if he learns to use his hands more.

I'm not sure Conley will be there at 15, much less later in Rd 1.

[VeveJones007]

They just about flat out said the main reason they were willing to trade Allen was because they were excited about the TE depth in this draft and wanted more picks. To me this means they thought they could get rid of Allen's larger contract and injury history and draft a replacement.

Allen's replacement is already on the roster. His name is Jack Doyle. You're conveniently leaving out Ballard's comments about Swoope in your assessment. You characterized it as a given that they would draft a TE. I'm not saying they definitely won't. I'm just saying that I don't think it's a certainty. This draft could unfold many different ways.

[VeveJones007]

My thought process for the first round:

Option A = If one of the "elite" defenders falls to 1-15 (OLB Myles Garrett, 3-tech DT Jonathan Allen, S Jamal Adams, CB Marshon Lattimore, 3-tech DT Solomon Thomas or ILB Reuben Foster) then you take them regardless of position. Their chances to be long-term impactful players are excellent.

Option B = If none of the "elite" defenders are available but either 1) Derek Barnett or 2) Hasson Riddick are available you draft them at 1-15.

Option C = If none of the above are available, you trade back to the mid 20s (1 or 2 jumps back) and you pick 1) T.J. Watt, 2) Charles Harris, 3) Taco Charleston or 4) Carl Lawson.

I think Watt has the makings of an elite pass rusher, much like his brother. I think he needs to add another 15-20 pounds of muscle to his frame but I think he is a guy that you can move all over the field to get a good matchup.

I don't mind Charles Harris or Carl Lawson or Taco Charleston but I want one of Barnett, Riddick or Watt.

I would pass on Tim Williams (too dumb to pick up Alabama defensive system?), Jordan Willis (one trick pony with outside rush only), Malik McDowell (I don't see dominance), Zach Cunningham (little pass rush ability) or Takkarist McKinley (did not learn any technique in 3 years at UCLA, unteachable?).

As a later round pass rusher, I like Washington's Joe Mathis. He is probably a 1st round draft pick if his season had not been cut short after only 6 games in 2016. He probably will not contribute much in 2017 but he would be drafted for the future.

Cheers,

I just don't see it with Barnett. The guy is a one trick pony right now. Maybe he can be coached up, but that's too much of a risk for me if Harris is on the board. If you trade down and Harris is gone, then I'm ok with Barnett.

[natagu23]

I just don't see it with Barnett. The guy is a one trick pony right now. Maybe he can be coached up, but that's too much of a risk for me if Harris is on the board. If you trade down and Harris is gone, then I'm ok with Barnett.

I second that but for different reasons.

Barnett doesn't have the explosion you need to be a decent pass rusher in this league.

He looked slow coming off the ball at Tennessee and didnt really change my mind at the combine.

[natagu23]

I'm not sure Conley will be there at 15, much less later in Rd 1.

Conley's stock has jumped after a solid combine and pro day. You cant teach that kinda size and athleticism.

However, I doubt he comes off the board in the teens let alone at 15.

I see him coming off the board somewhere in the 20's.

[njcoltfan]

I just don't see it with Barnett. The guy is a one trick pony right now. Maybe he can be coached up, but that's too much of a risk for me if Harris is on the board. If you trade down and Harris is gone, then I'm ok with Barnett.

You know that Barnett had more career sacks at Tennessee than Reggie White? I really don't care that he is a "one trick pony", because that "one trick" is getting to the QB, exactly what the defense is lacking. If he is there at 15 ( and he probably won't be) I'd have the card up to the podium while Goodell was still hugging the Eagles pick !!

[Puck]

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

Agree......this would give us a dominate Oline for years to come.

Plenty of good to great defensive players available in rounds 2-4. This is the best olineman in the draft, and we have seen how many times we lose an olineman to injury.

WE MUST PROTECT LUCK! THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT!!!!

[Dam8610]

Lookout for this Forrest Lamp kid- Guard Western Kentucky

This guy can play pretty much every position on the line and i mean every position.

He shined versus Alabama.

This is a pick that could solidify the oline but could warrant the surprised "Who?" reaction if we call his name come the 15th pick.

His listing as a guard makes me doubt his athleticism to hold up at LT in the NFL, though admittedly I've watched no film of him. That said, LT is the only OL position worth a Top 15 pick.

[Puck]

His listing as a guard makes me doubt his athleticism to hold up at LT in the NFL, though admittedly I've watched no film of him. That said, LT is the only OL position worth a Top 15 pick.


We need a guard more than a tackle and I couldn't care less about what a pick is worth on paper.... I care about the biggest need on the team and that is Andrew Luck. Without him you can have all the pass rush and Dline and CB's in the world and this team is going no where behind that oline.

This team is not going to built around defense as long as Luck is the QB. It will be built around him and rightfully so.

Look what an improvement the oline made with adding the best OC in the draft last yr. Look at what Dallas did!

Again there are plenty of defense available in rounds 2-4.

We dont need the 86 Bears D to win. They need to be top 15 to win the SB if Luck is healthy. We need a healthy Andrew Luck, who isnt getting killed every play.

[Coltsalr]

We're much closer to an OL that Luck would be capable of winning a Super Bowl behind than we are to having a top 15 defense, that's for damn sure.

[Puck]

We're much closer to an OL that Luck would be capable of winning a Super Bowl behind than we are to having a top 15 defense, that's for damn sure.


I think you are underestimating what Ballard has already done. Simon is going to be a stud and I think Sheard will be a huge improvement.. There are plenty of pieces in rounds 2-4 to get this D to where it needs to be.

TBO they probably only need to be top 20 to beat even the Pats, if Luck has time to throw and the Oline can run block.

[Coltsalr]

I think you are underestimating what Ballard has already done. Simon is going to be a stud and I think Sheard will be a huge improvement.. There are plenty of pieces in rounds 2-4 to get this D to where it needs to be.

TBO they probably only need to be top 20 to beat even the Pats, if Luck has time to throw and the Oline can run block.

I'm actually pretty high on Sheard/Simon too. I think Simon will be an improvement over Walden and I think Sheard alone will be a fairly massive improvement over Cole/Mathis, who were both completely tapped out last year.

I do however worry that since neither has proven they can handle full slate of starters reps that we'll need plenty of depth at the position. Depth that we certainly don't already have.

And I'm also very concerned about the ILB corps. Sean Spence might be a nice piece, but that's actually one of the moves that Ballard has made that I'm most down on. Morrison/Jackson showed me nothing last year that would indicate that they're capable of being good NFL starters. God help us if we start the season with them.

That said, I say all of that to say that, again, I will never bitch if they go full-on with the OL. I agree, if we suddenly have Dallas' OL, then sure, that could really do some interesting things for us. It's not the path that I would take, but if they did do so, I wouldn't be stark raving mad over it.

TE and WR are the only positions that if we draft in the 1st round that I'll literally lose my mind. I'd prefer not to draft RB/CB/S/OL, but I could at least see why they would do so (Yes, I believe that Cook is THAT good that if we drafted him in the 1st that with time it would be justifiable, but no, it's NOT what I would do).

That was some Pete fence-sitting right there, wasn't it?

[Puck]

I'm actually pretty high on Sheard/Simon too. I think Simon will be an improvement over Walden and I think Sheard alone will be a fairly massive improvement over Cole/Mathis, who were both completely tapped out last year.

I do however worry that since neither has proven they can handle full slate of starters reps that we'll need plenty of depth at the position. Depth that we certainly don't already have.

And I'm also very concerned about the ILB corps. Sean Spence might be a nice piece, but that's actually one of the moves that Ballard has made that I'm most down on. Morrison/Jackson showed me nothing last year that would indicate that they're capable of being good NFL starters. God help us if we start the season with them.

That said, I say all of that to say that, again, I will never bitch if they go full-on with the OL. I agree, if we suddenly have Dallas' OL, then sure, that could really do some interesting things for us. It's not the path that I would take, but if they did do so, I wouldn't be stark raving mad over it.

TE and WR are the only positions that if we draft in the 1st round that I'll literally lose my mind. I'd prefer not to draft RB/CB/S/OL, but I could at least see why they would do so (Yes, I believe that Cook is THAT good that if we drafted him in the 1st that with time it would be justifiable, but no, it's NOT what I would do).

That was some Pete fence-sitting right there, wasn't it?


I will disagree on CB in round one, I would love if they took one of the top CB's if they were there. I am not that high on Cook as others are. I think there are plenty out there that could be great at a later pick. I havent given up on Ferguson yet either. I may after game on though.

I don't think Foster will be there at 15. I wont be pissed if he is and they take him, and I wouldnt be pissed if they traded back up to get Lamp with our second pick. Picks on rounds 4-6 usually dont generate starters...usually... so if one was traded to get us to be able to pick a sure fire starter, I would be very happy. I know Ballard wants quantity, I want quality with the 1st 3 picks, after that draft away

"OH and we are drafting TE somewhere.... Signed Chris Ballard"

[Dam8610]

We need a guard more than a tackle and I couldn't care less about what a pick is worth on paper.... I care about the biggest need on the team and that is Andrew Luck. Without him you can have all the pass rush and Dline and CB's in the world and this team is going no where behind that oline.

This team is not going to built around defense as long as Luck is the QB. It will be built around him and rightfully so.

Look what an improvement the oline made with adding the best OC in the draft last yr. Look at what Dallas did!

Again there are plenty of defense available in rounds 2-4.

We dont need the 86 Bears D to win. They need to be top 15 to win the SB if Luck is healthy. We need a healthy Andrew Luck, who isnt getting killed every play.

Well I hope Ballard disagrees with you.

[VeveJones007]

You know that Barnett had more career sacks at Tennessee than Reggie White? I really don't care that he is a "one trick pony", because that "one trick" is getting to the QB, exactly what the defense is lacking. If he is there at 15 ( and he probably won't be) I'd have the card up to the podium while Goodell was still hugging the Eagles pick !!

QBs will just step up in the pocket every play if Barnett doesn't get an inside move. He doesn't have it right now. He racked up those sacks by beating guys around the edge and using his strength against weak opponents.

I'm not saying that he won't be a good pro. I just see the limitations in his current game. He could get some good coaching and overcome it, but right now he's a slightly better Erik Walden.

[FatDT]

QBs will just step up in the pocket every play if Barnett doesn't get an inside move. He doesn't have it right now. He racked up those sacks by beating guys around the edge and using his strength against weak opponents.

I'm not saying that he won't be a good pro. I just see the limitations in his current game. He could get some good coaching and overcome it, but right now he's a slightly better Erik Walden.

I think it's out of line to look at 3 years of consistent SEC production and say he racked up empty sacks against weak competition. You can say that for one year, sure. Two is pushing it. Three, no. He is a playmaker. He may have some developing to do, what rookie doesn't? But his game translates to the NFL a lot better than an undersized track athlete just running around his blocker every play. I'll be happy if we get him in the 1st.

[VeveJones007]

I think it's out of line to look at 3 years of consistent SEC production and say he racked up empty sacks against weak competition. You can say that for one year, sure. Two is pushing it. Three, no. He is a playmaker. He may have some developing to do, what rookie doesn't? But his game translates to the NFL a lot better than an undersized track athlete just running around his blocker every play. I'll be happy if we get him in the 1st.

You're misunderstanding what I meant by "weak." I meant weaker than the tackles he'll match up against in the NFL. We'll see if his strength translates.

Still, I trust Harris's current skill set to translate better than Barnett's. Harris has the inside moves and awareness that Barnett doesn't quite have at this moment. To say it another way, I think Harris has a higher floor.

[natagu23]

You're misunderstanding what I meant by "weak." I meant weaker than the tackles he'll match up against in the NFL. We'll see if his strength translates.

Still, I trust Harris's current skill set to translate better than Barnett's. Harris has the inside moves and awareness that Barnett doesn't quite have at this moment. To say it another way, I think Harris has a higher floor.

You cant go wrong with a guy that has a decent floor when you have Pags as a coach.

We cant mess around with projects or players with a lot of potential with questionable floor.

[Coltsalr]

You cant go wrong with a guy that has a decent floor when you have Pags as a coach.

We cant mess around with projects or players with a lot of potential with questionable floor.

Agreed, I don't think either guy (Barnett or Harris) has the high bust potential of a Bjoern Werner.

I do worry about a guy like Takk McKninley who's so raw in so many areas and I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into Werner under our coaching staff.

[apballin]

Draft Lamp

Put him in there with Kelley, Mewhort and Castanzo and that's a solid line

[Mr. Session]

Draft Lamp

Put him in there with Kelley, Mewhort and Castanzo and that's a solid line

Even if Castanzo retires/moves on, The interior of the line is set for years.

The pass rusher or Middle Linebacker has to be lights out that's available at 15 : has to be a beast to match that impact imo.

[Coltsalr]

the indianapolis colts are one of several nfl teams reported to be hosting alabama linebacker reuben foster on a visit in the days ahead, per josh norris of rotoworld.

"on top of visiting kc and jax this week, i'm told lb reuben foster will also visit the colts, bengals, saints, lions, titans & ravens," norris tweeted friday evening.

don't let him leave

[rcubed]

don't let him leave

Dont think it works that way

[natagu23]

Draft Lamp

Put him in there with Kelley, Mewhort and Castanzo and that's a solid line

Lamp is starting to make a lot of sense.

The interior of the oline could potentially be the strong suit of this team which is something we have desired for a long time.

Not to mention you can still draft a decent LB or pass rusher in the 2nd.

Lets not kid ourselves because after Solomon Thomas and Garrett, the pass rushing talent falls off a f**king cliff.

Is Lamp a better linemen than what we'll draft at 15 in either a lber or pass rusher? Most likely

The kid is solid all around. He's a notch below Kelly imo.

Nice safe pick.

[Puck]

I think once the pick is made everyone on here is going to be mad, puzzled, and a few will threaten to boycott the season...

He is taking BPA regardless of need.

[VeveJones007]

I think once the pick is made everyone on here is going to be mad, puzzled, and a few will threaten to boycott the season...

He is taking BPA regardless of need.

There will be so many good players available and so many needs that it will be hard to be mad at the pick. Even if they take Lamp like you want, it still fills a need, unlike the Dorsett pick in 2015. I think a lot of us were legitimately upset at that one.

[Butter]

I think once the pick is made everyone on here is going to be mad, puzzled, and a few will threaten to boycott the season...

He is taking BPA regardless of need.

Sounds about right.

[Coltsalr]

I think once the pick is made everyone on here is going to be mad, puzzled, and a few will threaten to boycott the season...

He is taking BPA regardless of need.

If it's TE or WR (or QB, obviously) I hit the roof.

Otherwise, I'l live, assuming that the guy is actually good.

The guy being some bizarre reach that sends Mel Kiper screaming is the wildcard, but I'm assuming/hoping that with Ballard being a rookie GM, that he'll probably go chalk with his first ever pick (and the Chiefs, as I recall, don't seem to tend to just reach for players weirdly like say the Dolphins), so as long as the guy actually IS reasonably considered the best player available and not at one of those positions, then fine.

[rcubed]

There will be so many good players available and so many needs that it will be hard to be mad at the pick. Even if they take Lamp like you want, it still fills a need, unlike the Dorsett pick in 2015. I think a lot of us were legitimately upset at that one.
this board will still find something to bitch about, even if the pick is perfect.

[sherck]

this board will still find something to bitch about, even if the pick is perfect.
I seem to remember a few folks were not happy with the selection of Kelly last year even though he was a "perfect" pick.

Some folks will never be happy.

Cheers,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Coltsalr]

I seem to remember a few folks were not happy with the selection of Kelly last year even though he was a "perfect" pick.

Some folks will never be happy.

Cheers,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Good ol' Nate Douchelevy:

Nate Dunlevy ‏@NateDunlevy
Indy hasn't even been competitive against top passers. Center won't keep them in games. Still going to get run out of dodge over and over.

[Dam8610]

Good ol' Nate Douchelevy:

Nate Dunlevy ‏@NateDunlevy
Indy hasn't even been competitive against top passers. Center won't keep them in games. Still going to get run out of dodge over and over.

To be fair, he wasn't wrong, but the value at pass rusher just wasn't there.

[omahacolt]

Good ol' Nate Douchelevy:

Nate Dunlevy ‏@NateDunlevy
Indy hasn't even been competitive against top passers. Center won't keep them in games. Still going to get run out of dodge over and over.

Fucking dunleavy

That pissface is so butthurt about manning it is embarrassing. The dude has lost it

[Coltsalr]

To be fair, he wasn't wrong, but the value at pass rusher just wasn't there.

They're completely out of games when Luck is getting flattened behind a suckass Center like Satele or Khaled Holmes.

Getting a Center like Ryan Kelly was a necessity to even begin to talk about improving other areas of the team.

[Coltsalr]

Fucking dunleavy

That pissface is so butthurt about manning it is embarrassing. The dude has lost it

He makes Brad Wells tolerable by comparison.

[Dam8610]

They're completely out of games when Luck is getting flattened behind a suckass Center like Satele or Khaled Holmes.

Getting a Center like Ryan Kelly was a necessity to even begin to talk about improving other areas of the team.

Pass rush was the most glaring need on this team last year, despite the FO's complete lack of addressing it. That said, the value wasn't there to take a pass rusher at 18 last year.

[Coltsalr]

Pass rush was the most glaring need on this team last year, despite the FO's complete lack of addressing it. That said, the value wasn't there to take a pass rusher at 18 last year.

Pass rush absolutely was the biggest issue on the team this past year, however, had the Colts not drafted interior OL and had Luck gotten seriously injured yet again, that would've stood out as the bigger issue, even over the pass rush which would've been crappy, no doubt.

But yes, you're also correct that pass rush wasn't there at 1.18 last year, which makes Nate Douchelevy's comment bashing the pick all the more retarded.

[YDFL Commish]

Here's what a long time NFC scout has to say about each teams possible draft strategy:

15. Colts: This is where (Stanford RB Christian) McCaffrey goes. Perfect fit there. I (also) have one sleeper there: (Oklahoma RB) Joe Mixon. Longest of long shots, but I can tell you the Colts are taking a hard look at him. A lot of teams are infatuated with Mixon, but so far no team seems crazy enough to take him in the first. But I think that owner (Jim Irsay) is crazy enough to do it.

I don't expect either of these scenarios to play out...but if either did this board would explode!

Alas...Jim Irsay doesn't call the shots in these situations, although, I could easily see the Colts taking Mixon in round 2.

[VeveJones007]

Here's what a long time NFC scout has to say about each teams possible draft strategy:



I don't expect either of these scenarios to play out...but if either did this board would explode!

Alas...Jim Irsay doesn't call the shots in these situations, although, I could easily see the Colts taking Mixon in round 2.

A lot of out-of-town-stupid there. Agree that Mixon may be a target...in Rd 2.

[Puck]

Everyone knows I am a in the draft Lamp camp

But what are your thoughts on Good at RG in place of Haeg. Haeg is probably a better tackle than guard in the long run. He just doesn't have the strength to play guard yet

Could you live with. AC Mewhort RK Good and Clark and not have to watch Luck and hold your breath that he doesn't get killed. And we have a running game?

[FatDT]

I'll take Haeg over Good. Haeg was a rookie, and the offseason is when you get stronger physically. As a low round rookie he proved he could play and maybe start long-term in the NFL. He has all the motivation he'll need to prove himself and earn a 2nd contract. Maybe one day he'll play tackle but I think he is more talented than Good.

[sherck]

I like Clark at RT for 2017 and will feel about whoever of Haeg, Good or Schewenke wins the RG spot.

That is not a bad competition to have. They all have talent.

Cheers,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[smitty46953]

If Foster is there i take him, doubt he is though.
I personally would not be upset to hear Ryan Ramczyk or Forrest Lamps name called. After those two I like Haason Riddick I will probably throw a hissy fit if it is any RB short of Fournette.

:cool:

[VeveJones007]

If Foster is there i take him, doubt he is though.
I personally would not be upset to hear Ryan Ramczyk or Forrest Lamps name called. After those two I like Haason Riddick I will probably throw a hissy fit if it is any RB short of Fournette.

:cool:

Foster
Reddick
Harris
McKinley

If Foster isn't there, I hope they find a good partner to trade down.

[natagu23]

Everyone knows I am a in the draft Lamp camp

But what are your thoughts on Good at RG in place of Haeg. Haeg is probably a better tackle than guard in the long run. He just doesn't have the strength to play guard yet

Could you live with. AC Mewhort RK Good and Clark and not have to watch Luck and hold your breath that he doesn't get killed. And we have a running game?

Draft Lamp in the 1st.

Raekwon McMillan in the 2nd

Teez Tabor in the 3rd and another corner in the 4th

[sherck]

Draft Lamp in the 1st.

Raekwon McMillan in the 2nd

Teez Tabor in the 3rd and another corner in the 4th

If that, then sign one of the veteran CBs on the market to a 1 year contract to force the rookie CBs to seize the CB2 spot if they deserve it instead of just having it handed to them.

Add RB and OLB in the 4th round and a TE in the 5th and call it a draft.

Cheers,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[apballin]

After the Hankins signing I don't see them going any position other than OL

Lamp or the Wisconsin guy

2 options at this point

either will be bpa so it doesn't matter

[VeveJones007]

After the Hankins signing I don't see them going any position other than OL

Lamp or the Wisconsin guy

2 options at this point

either will be bpa so it doesn't matter

Read this: http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/20240/colts-need-for-an-offensive-lineman-in-the-first-round-isnt-as-big-as-it-looks

Listen to this: https://twitter.com/kentsterling/status/852609298530226176

The Colts need to take 2017 to play the O linemen they have to gauge them. No reason to spend a valuable high pick on G/T when you may already have what you need in Clark, Harg, and/or Good.

[GoBigBlue88]

After Hankins signing, I am 100 percent in favor of, at 15...

1. Game-changing LB (ILB or EDGE, but you have to determine this is a consistent playmaker and not just rotation player)

2. Game-changing boundary CB.

3. RB

In that order of decision-making. So if whoever Ballard determines to be a game-changing EDGE, or Reuben Foster, or an evaluated-as-long-term-starter Raekwon McMillan is available, or a true "can't get this talent anywhere near the 2nd round" system-friendly boundary CB is available at 15, I think you absolutely have to go there.

But if Ballard doesn't feel like any of those positions have real playmakers present at 15, I think this puts RB back in play.

[apballin]

Read this: http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/20240/colts-need-for-an-offensive-lineman-in-the-first-round-isnt-as-big-as-it-looks

Listen to this: https://twitter.com/kentsterling/status/852609298530226176

The Colts need to take 2017 to play the O linemen they have to gauge them. No reason to spend a valuable high pick on G/T when you may already have what you need in Clark, Harg, and/or Good.

Only problem is if you pass on OL in the 1st your not getting NFL starter talent let alone giving the guys on the right side of the line any competition

If it's an impact guy like Foster. . ok but you can get a RB, CB, LB later in the draft

At this point he's got to solidify the line

[Spike]

Only problem is if you pass on OL in the 1st your not getting NFL starter talent let alone giving the guys on the right side of the line any competition

If it's an impact guy like Foster. . ok but you can get a RB, CB, LB later in the draft

At this point he's got to solidify the line

BPA at 15 at a position of real need should still be there. Whether it be OL, or on the defensive side of the ball. Not in favor of taking a RB or WR in the 1st round.

[VeveJones007]

After Hankins signing, I am 100 percent in favor of, at 15...

1. Game-changing LB (ILB or EDGE, but you have to determine this is a consistent playmaker and not just rotation player)

2. Game-changing boundary CB.

3. RB

In that order of decision-making. So if whoever Ballard determines to be a game-changing EDGE, or Reuben Foster, or an evaluated-as-long-term-starter Raekwon McMillan is available, or a true "can't get this talent anywhere near the 2nd round" system-friendly boundary CB is available at 15, I think you absolutely have to go there.

But if Ballard doesn't feel like any of those positions have real playmakers present at 15, I think this puts RB back in play.

I really hope that Foster makes it to 15. If they get him and one of the EDGE guys at 2.14, it will already be a hell of a draft.

[VeveJones007]

Only problem is if you pass on OL in the 1st your not getting NFL starter talent let alone giving the guys on the right side of the line any competition

If it's an impact guy like Foster. . ok but you can get a RB, CB, LB later in the draft

At this point he's got to solidify the line

I believe more in the upside of Clark/Haeg/Good than I do Morrison/Jackson/Simon.

[Puck]

It's all fun to wish, but it will be BPA and not drafting for need. Ballard has said it a million times.

Be prepared for a RB or TE if they are the BPA

[Oldcolt]

The offensive line can wait for another draft. At some point you have to believe that what you have can develop into something good. I thing the last half of last season gives a person reason for hope, for the offensive line. Is it perfect, hell no, but compared to the defense we put on the field it was. We need defense. If the best player is an OL or rb I am hoping we trade down and pick defense. Find a way to put some pressure on the qb. It would be incredible to root for a team with balance. I think

[Spike]

The offensive line can wait for another draft. At some point you have to believe that what you have can develop into something good. I thing the last half of last season gives a person reason for hope, for the offensive line. Is it perfect, hell no, but compared to the defense we put on the field it was. We need defense. If the best player is an OL or rb I am hoping we trade down and pick defense. Find a way to put some pressure on the qb. It would be incredible to root for a team with balance. I think

I wouldn't be upset with a guy like Lamp, but hell no to a RB or WR, too many other pressing needs.

[apballin]

It's all fun to wish, but it will be BPA and not drafting for need. Ballard has said it a million times.

Be prepared for a RB or TE if they are the BPA

I call BS what if trubisky is bpa

[apballin]

I believe more in the upside of Clark/Haeg/Good than I do Morrison/Jackson/Simon.

Yeah but waiting on Haeg and Good at the expense of Luck is what I don't wanna deal with.

And I believe we can make do with Spence/Jackson/Simon Hankins just made all of our LBs job easier

[Coltsalr]

I really hope that Foster makes it to 15. If they get him and one of the EDGE guys at 2.14, it will already be a hell of a draft.

That's my hope.

I also like the idea that if Foster isn't there, trade back into the 20's, nab one of Cunningham/Davis and then hopefully one of the EDGE guys in the 2nd.

If we trade back in the 1st, we also might be able to trade up a bit in the 2nd to get our EDGE guy earlier than 2.15

[Coltsalr]

It's all fun to wish, but it will be BPA and not drafting for need. Ballard has said it a million times.

Be prepared for a RB or TE if they are the BPA

No TE. God.

I am still in the small minority (though it looks like I might have GBB88 in my camp) that would be fine with Dalvin Cook in the 1st round. Again, not my first choice, and I hope we go ILB/EDGE in the top 2 rounds (and I think there's the caliber of players that the guys there might indeed be BPA in the first couple of rounds), but I just happen to believe that Dalvin Cook is and will be that damn good.

[YDFL Commish]

No TE. God.

I am still in the small minority (though it looks like I might have GBB88 in my camp) that would be fine with Dalvin Cook in the 1st round. Again, not my first choice, and I hope we go ILB/EDGE in the top 2 rounds (and I think there's the caliber of players that the guys there might indeed be BPA in the first couple of rounds), but I just happen to believe that Dalvin Cook is and will be that damn good.

Mixon is better and can be had later.

[Dam8610]

It's all fun to wish, but it will be BPA and not drafting for need. Ballard has said it a million times.

Be prepared for a RB or TE if they are the BPA

BPA always has an element of need to it. They aren't going to draft a QB if they feel he is the BPA, for example. I believe Ballard will either pick the best front 7 player available or trade back at 15.

[Puck]

BPA always has an element of need to it. They aren't going to draft a QB if they feel he is the BPA, for example. I believe Ballard will either pick the best front 7 player available or trade back at 15.

So you believe that even though he says he will never base his pick on need and will pick BPA.

[ukcolt]

I want linebackers but really are people seriously thinking that our corners are OK????

This is easily the biggest position of need, and it isn't even close in my opinion. We have Davis and then one guy who started last year after beginning the season as the fifth stringer. After these two we have quite literally nothing.

[Coltsalr]

Mixon is better and can be had later.

He'll also bring a gigantic backlash.

Not sure Ballard will do it. Not saying he WON'T, he was in the FO that brought in Tyreek Hill but that's a ballsy move for a rookie GM.

[Coltsalr]

So you believe that even though he says he will never base his pick on need and will pick BPA.

I believe that NFL GM's are often dishonest when it comes to talking about the media regarding draft strategy, yes.

[YDFL Commish]

He'll also bring a gigantic backlash.

Not sure Ballard will do it. Not saying he WON'T, he was in the FO that brought in Tyreek Hill but that's a ballsy move for a rookie GM.

I remain convinced that Mixon's best destination is in Indy. A year of growing up and learning how to be a Pro from Frank Gore, is just what the kid needs.

There are a lot of good locker room guys on the offense that will embrace this kid and keep him on the straight and narrow.

Also, yeah there will be some initial backlash from the fans. But that will be soon forgotten, if he keeps his nose clean, contributes to the community and starts posting all-pro seasons.

[apballin]

I remain convinced that Mixon's best destination is in Indy. A year of growing up and learning how to be a Pro from Frank Gore, is just what the kid needs.

There are a lot of good locker room guys on the offense that will embrace this kid and keep him on the straight and narrow.

Also, yeah there will be some initial backlash from the fans. But that will be soon forgotten, if he keeps his nose clean, contributes to the community and starts posting all-pro seasons.

I mean Ballard did draft tyreek hill

[Coltsalr]

I remain convinced that Mixon's best destination is in Indy. A year of growing up and learning how to be a Pro from Frank Gore, is just what the kid needs.

There are a lot of good locker room guys on the offense that will embrace this kid and keep him on the straight and narrow.

Also, yeah there will be some initial backlash from the fans. But that will be soon forgotten, if he keeps his nose clean, contributes to the community and starts posting all-pro seasons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm good with the idea, I'm not the one that would have to deal with the backlash and I'm absolutely convinced that he'll be good in the NFL. I'd quibble with him being definitively BETTER than Dalvin Cook, but I do think he'll be quite good.

My dream draft would probably consist of trading back into the 20's, grabbing an ILB (Cunningham, since I know you hate Davis), grabbing Mixon at 2.14 and then hopefully having a late 2nd round pick as a result of trading back into the 20's and then grab one of the edge rushers (Tim Williams or Carl Lawson might very well still be available at that point).

[Puck]

Don't get me wrong, I'm good with the idea, I'm not the one that would have to deal with the backlash and I'm absolutely convinced that he'll be good in the NFL. I'd quibble with him being definitively BETTER than Dalvin Cook, but I do think he'll be quite good.

My dream draft would probably consist of trading back into the 20's, grabbing an ILB (Cunningham, since I know you hate Davis), grabbing Mixon at 2.14 and then hopefully having a late 2nd round pick as a result of trading back into the 20's and then grab one of the edge rushers (Tim Williams or Carl Lawson might very well still be available at that point).

Who is playing CB?

[sherck]

Who is playing CB?
A 1 year veteran free agent cap cut signed after the draft.

Duh..... 😁

Cheers,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Coltsalr]

Who is playing CB?

Lots of good CB's in this class. It's entirely possible a guy like Sidney Jones or Teez Tabor will be available in the 3rd round when we're picking.

[rcubed]

I mean Ballard did draft tyreek hill
He was not the gm in kc

[Indiana V2]

He was not the gm in kc

No, but he gets credit for all the good players the Chiefs have ever drafted. Not sure who drafted the crappy players.

[Puck]

Lots of good CB's in this class. It's entirely possible a guy like Sidney Jones or Teez Tabor will be available in the 3rd round when we're picking.

I'm good with drafting him but he is injured. And probably won't be available for 2017. Who's playing in 2017

[Puck]

A 1 year veteran free agent cap cut signed after the draft.

Duh..... 😁

Cheers,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I think Toler might be available

[Coltsalr]

I'm good with drafting him but he is injured. And probably won't be available for 2017. Who's playing in 2017

He supposedly has a shot at 2017. And maybe a guy like Teez Tabor. Or it's Davis/Melvin with Butler sliding in at nickel.

The position isn't as dire as LB. It's just not.

[Puck]

He supposedly has a shot at 2017. And maybe a guy like Teez Tabor. Or it's Davis/Melvin with Butler sliding in at nickel.

The position isn't as dire as LB. It's just not.

Butler is a safety. Not Nicole corner anymore

[Coltsalr]

Butler is a safety. Not Nicole corner anymore

Would not be surprised if he slides in to cover the slot guys on 3rd downs. Just sayin.

[Puck]

Would not be surprised if he slides in to cover the slot guys on 3rd downs. Just sayin.

I doubt that happens. Never saw Adams doing it... who would play safety? Green? Seems smarter to actually have a CB instead of trying to put a bandaid on one spot

I distinctly remember you complaining about Toler on a weekly basis. If you were not ok with it then not sure how you would be ok going back to that same scenario. Without a starting caliber CB opposite VD it will be ugly. And when or if VD goes down it will be even uglier. No pass rush would over come a tandem of Melvin and Mitchell. Or even Melvin and Butler if it got that desperate

Just remember pass rush and LBR has been addressed. Maybe not with 4 pro bowlers but it has been upgraded.... CB has not been. In fact it is less than last season. I don't know about you, but IMO that is a huge huge hole on this team. Easily the biggest on the team.

[Coltsalr]

I doubt that happens. Never saw Adams doing it... who would play safety? Green? Seems smarter to actually have a CB instead of trying to put a bandaid on one spot

I distinctly remember you complaining about Toler on a weekly basis. If you were not ok with it then not sure how you would be ok going back to that same scenario. Without a starting caliber CB opposite VD it will be ugly. And when or if VD goes down it will be even uglier. No pass rush would over come a tandem of Melvin and Mitchell. Or even Melvin and Butler if it got that desperate

Just remember pass rush and LBR has been addressed. Maybe not with 4 pro bowlers but it has been upgraded.... CB has not been. In fact it is less than last season. I don't know about you, but IMO that is a huge huge hole on this team. Easily the biggest on the team.

I don't think you understand how dire the LB problem is.

Did you like, watch Antonio Morrison last year and think he was, um, good? Because either he or Edwin Jackson is currently slated to start at LB. That's a fairly massive problem.

[apballin]

I don't think you understand how dire the LB problem is.

Did you like, watch Antonio Morrison last year and think he was, um, good? Because either he or Edwin Jackson is currently slated to start at LB. That's a fairly massive problem.

I liked what Jackson brought last season unless Foster falls in our lap, it wouldn't surprise me if Jackson and Spence are the starters

[Puck]

I don't think you understand how dire the LB problem is.

Did you like, watch Antonio Morrison last year and think he was, um, good? Because either he or Edwin Jackson is currently slated to start at LB. That's a fairly massive problem.

I don't think you understand that they have already upgraded the LB positons. We only have 1 starting CB on the roster.

[sherck]

The more I look at film, the more that I am becoming convinced that I don't see a big difference between the OLBs after Myles Garrett ranking from about #2 through #15 or so.

I mean, who is the #2? Reddick? Harris? Willis?

Who is the #8? Who is #12?

I think that different teams are going to value a lot of different traits in these kids. I personally think that T.J. Watt could become the best of the lot BUT I also acknowledge that there is a lot of downside to him as well that could lead to a bust. It is that kind of class.

They all have talent and production. There are going to be some really good pass rushers that come out of this class but I am not convinced that the kids taken in the middle of the 1st round have that much more going for them than the kids whom are going to be taken in the middle of the 2nd round or possible even taken in the middle of the 3rd round. I like Ryan Anderson, Alabama (whom many think is a 3rd round pick) and Trey Hendrickson, Florida Atlantic (again, whom many think is 3rd round or below) about as well as I like Harris or Watt or Bowser.

As such, I am now throwing my considerable weight (alas, physical and not reputation) behind the concept of drafting CB in the 1st round instead of OLB and waiting until later to draft LB.

As Puck keeps pointing out, "who is going to play CB?" The answer probably needs to be one of:

6'00" / 195lbs / 4.44s 40 / 11 bench / 37.0" vertical / 129.0" broad / 6.68s 3 cone / 4.18s 20 shuttle / Gareon Conley, Ohio State
5'11"/ 192lbs / 4.47s 40 / 16 bench / 32.0" vertical / 119.0" broad / 6.90s 3 cone / 4.32s 20 shuttle / Tre'Darvious White, LSU

I prefer Conley because he is the better athlete, played more press coverage in college and just "looks" more NFL ready right now. I am not so sure that White will not be the better CB in the long run after a season or two of seasoning but, alas, the Colts are in need of a starter RIGHT NOW instead of in a season or two.

Once we get our CB2 in the 1st round, we could then come back at 2-14 (#46) and 3-16 (#80) and go ILB/OLB depending on who has best BPA. Guys like this could/should be available:

OLB Tarell Basham, Ohio (small school and raw but talented)
OLB Tim Williams, Alabama (how far is he going to fall?)
OLB Tyus Bowser, Houston (+ physical that is still very raw)
OLB Ryan Anderson, Alabama (+ production but lack physical upside)
OLB Trey Hendrickson, Florida Atlantic (+ production, + physical, SMALL school)
OLB Daeshon Hall, Texas A&M (DE position switch, pure pass rusher)

ILB Alex Anzalone, Florida (+ physical and production, has been inured a lot)
ILB Raekwon McMillian, Ohio State (solid coverage, needs to improve run support)
ILB Anthony Walker Jr, Northwestern (+ run play, only okay in coverage)
ILB Duke Riley, LSU (1 year of production but improving, solid all around)
ILB Blair Brown, Ohio (1 year of production; small school)

The ILB class really seems to fall off after the likes of Foster, Reddick (if folks view him as an ILB), Davis and Cunningham. My BPA for 2-14 would probably be one of Davis or Cunningham if they fall that far and then OLB if they don't.

The likes of Trey Hendrickson, Daeshon Hall or Ryan Anderson might still be around for our 3rd round pick and would add another solid body in our OLB rotation; not a world beater but a solid body.

===============
TL:DR

1-15:
A pick = CB Gareon Conley
B pick = CB Tre'Darvious White

2-14:
A pick = ILB Jarrad Davis or ILB Zach Cunningham (if they slide)
B pick = OLB Charles Harris or OLB T.J. Watt (if they slide)
C pick = ILB Raekwon McMillian
D pick = OLB Tim Williams

3-16:
A pick = OLB Ryan Anderson (if ILB was taken in 2nd round)
B pick = OLB Trey Hendrickson (if ILB was taken in 2nd round)
C pick = ILB Duke Riley or ILB Blair Brown

4th round CB (Witherspoon? Kazee? Elder? Griffin?)
4th round RB
4th round Safety
5th round TE

Add a veteran CB in free agency from camp cut to push the rookie 1st round draft pick to perform and you have a full wrap on it.

Cheers,

[Puck]

The more I look at film, the more that I am becoming convinced that I don't see a big difference between the OLBs after Myles Garrett ranking from about #2 through #15 or so.

I mean, who is the #2? Reddick? Harris? Willis?

Who is the #8? Who is #12?

I think that different teams are going to value a lot of different traits in these kids. I personally think that T.J. Watt could become the best of the lot BUT I also acknowledge that there is a lot of downside to him as well that could lead to a bust. It is that kind of class.

They all have talent and production. There are going to be some really good pass rushers that come out of this class but I am not convinced that the kids taken in the middle of the 1st round have that much more going for them than the kids whom are going to be taken in the middle of the 2nd round or possible even taken in the middle of the 3rd round. I like Ryan Anderson, Alabama (whom many think is a 3rd round pick) and Trey Hendrickson, Florida Atlantic (again, whom many think is 3rd round or below) about as well as I like Harris or Watt or Bowser.

As such, I am now throwing my considerable weight (alas, physical and not reputation) behind the concept of drafting CB in the 1st round instead of OLB and waiting until later to draft LB.

As Puck keeps pointing out, "who is going to play CB?" The answer probably needs to be one of:

6'00" / 195lbs / 4.44s 40 / 11 bench / 37.0" vertical / 129.0" broad / 6.68s 3 cone / 4.18s 20 shuttle / Gareon Conley, Ohio State
5'11"/ 192lbs / 4.47s 40 / 16 bench / 32.0" vertical / 119.0" broad / 6.90s 3 cone / 4.32s 20 shuttle / Tre'Darvious White, LSU

I prefer Conley because he is the better athlete, played more press coverage in college and just "looks" more NFL ready right now. I am not so sure that White will not be the better CB in the long run after a season or two of seasoning but, alas, the Colts are in need of a starter RIGHT NOW instead of in a season or two.

Once we get our CB2 in the 1st round, we could then come back at 2-14 (#46) and 3-16 (#80) and go ILB/OLB depending on who has best BPA. Guys like this could/should be available:

OLB Tarell Basham, Ohio (small school and raw but talented)
OLB Tim Williams, Alabama (how far is he going to fall?)
OLB Tyus Bowser, Houston (+ physical that is still very raw)
OLB Ryan Anderson, Alabama (+ production but lack physical upside)
OLB Trey Hendrickson, Florida Atlantic (+ production, + physical, SMALL school)
OLB Daeshon Hall, Texas A&M (DE position switch, pure pass rusher)

ILB Alex Anzalone, Florida (+ physical and production, has been inured a lot)
ILB Raekwon McMillian, Ohio State (solid coverage, needs to improve run support)
ILB Anthony Walker Jr, Northwestern (+ run play, only okay in coverage)
ILB Duke Riley, LSU (1 year of production but improving, solid all around)
ILB Blair Brown, Ohio (1 year of production; small school)

The ILB class really seems to fall off after the likes of Foster, Reddick (if folks view him as an ILB), Davis and Cunningham. My BPA for 2-14 would probably be one of Davis or Cunningham if they fall that far and then OLB if they don't.

The likes of Trey Hendrickson, Daeshon Hall or Ryan Anderson might still be around for our 3rd round pick and would add another solid body in our OLB rotation; not a world beater but a solid body.

===============
TL:DR

1-15:
A pick = CB Gareon Conley
B pick = CB Tre'Darvious White

2-14:
A pick = ILB Jarrad Davis or ILB Zach Cunningham (if they slide)
B pick = OLB Charles Harris or OLB T.J. Watt (if they slide)
C pick = ILB Raekwon McMillian
D pick = OLB Tim Williams

3-16:
A pick = OLB Ryan Anderson (if ILB was taken in 2nd round)
B pick = OLB Trey Hendrickson (if ILB was taken in 2nd round)
C pick = ILB Duke Riley or ILB Blair Brown

4th round CB (Witherspoon? Kazee? Elder? Griffin?)
4th round RB
4th round Safety
5th round TE

Add a veteran CB in free agency from camp cut to push the rookie 1st round draft pick to perform and you have a full wrap on it.

Cheers,

Yep. That's why I have no idea who they are taking in round one. If Fournette or Howard falls. They will most likely be BPA

I want Lamp but he won't be BPA. So he won't be the pick. I hope they can get Jones in the second or third. Before his injury he was probably top 7-8 of BPA.

I Do think Ballard picks up at least 2 FA cbs


FA for need Draft BPA

[Coltsalr]

I don't think you understand that they have already upgraded the LB positons. We only have 1 starting CB on the roster.

Melvin is a better starter than Morrison/Jackson.

If you can't see that, I can't help you.

[Wyatt]

I doubt that happens. Never saw Adams doing it... who would play safety? Green? Seems smarter to actually have a CB instead of trying to put a bandaid on one spot

I distinctly remember you complaining about Toler on a weekly basis. If you were not ok with it then not sure how you would be ok going back to that same scenario. Without a starting caliber CB opposite VD it will be ugly. And when or if VD goes down it will be even uglier. No pass rush would over come a tandem of Melvin and Mitchell. Or even Melvin and Butler if it got that desperate

Just remember pass rush and LBR has been addressed. Maybe not with 4 pro bowlers but it has been upgraded.... CB has not been. In fact it is less than last season. I don't know about you, but IMO that is a huge huge hole on this team. Easily the biggest on the team.

Speaking of washed up CB's from the past, I see Powers retired over the weekend

[FatDT]

I would be ok drafting a CB if he's the BPA. But I also see guys out there like Jason McCourty, Sam Shields, Brandon Flowers, Alteraun Verner, and even Leon Hall out there looking for work. Any of them could step in and start opposite Davis. I would not want to limit the team to just one position in the 1st. Lots of areas on defense, and even maybe the OL, could stand to have talent added. CB would be an emergency if there were no viable FAs available, but there are several.

[VeveJones007]

If Foster isn't there, I'd love to see them move back in round 1 while also adding that team's 2nd (yes, the Colts would have to add maybe a 4th to get that done). They could end up with something like:

1 - OLB Charles Harris
2- CB Sidney Jones
2 - ILB McMillan

[Puck]

Melvin is a better starter than Morrison/Jackson.

If you can't see that, I can't help you.

Maybe if we get enough LBers we can play without CBs at all

[Coltsalr]

Maybe if we get enough LBers we can play without CBs at all

If you can find the mythical CB that can cover for 15 seconds while there's no pass rush being generated and/or handle the cover responsibilities of a WR and the TE/RB that our incompetent ILB's are responsible for, then sure, by all means, ignore the LB position.

Until you find this mythical unicorn for a CB, however, I'm going to hone in on the position of greater importance that's in greater need of a talent infusion.

[Coltsalr]

If Foster isn't there, I'd love to see them move back in round 1 while also adding that team's 2nd (yes, the Colts would have to add maybe a 4th to get that done). They could end up with something like:

1 - ILB Charles Harris
2- CB Sidney Jones
2 - ILB McMillan

Agreed, I would just reverse the order on ILB/OLB.

As sherck said above, the dropoff from Foster/Cunningham/Davis (and Reddick, depending on if you think he's an ILB or not in this defense) to McMillian is pretty steep.

I think we could reasonably come out with, however:

1. OLB-Davis/Cunnigham
2- CB- Sidney Jones
3- Tim Williams/Carl Lawson

I don't think the talent-level dropoff between Harris to Williams/Lawson is as steep as the talent level dropoff from Cunnigham/Davis to McMillian, in other words.

[Puck]

Agreed, I would just reverse the order on ILB/OLB.

As sherck said above, the dropoff from Foster/Cunningham/Davis (and Reddick, depending on if you think he's an ILB or not in this defense) to McMillian is pretty steep.

I think we could reasonably come out with, however:

1. ILB-Davis/Cunnigham
2- CB- Sidney Jones
3- Tim Williams/Carl Lawson

I don't think the talent-level dropoff between Harris to Williams/Lawson is as steep as the talent level dropoff from Cunnigham/Davis to McMillian, in other words.


Actually he said that the drop off after Garrett is steep then the rest are all very close, not much of a drop from 2-15 and beyond

[Puck]

If you can find the mythical CB that can cover for 15 seconds while there's no pass rush being generated and/or handle the cover responsibilities of a WR and the TE/RB that our incompetent ILB's are responsible for, then sure, by all means, ignore the LB position.

Until you find this mythical unicorn for a CB, however, I'm going to hone in on the position of greater importance that's in greater need of a talent infusion.


I am not sure why you keep pounding the table about no pass rush now after the FA period. Simon and Sheard will more than likely be the starting OLBs Spence who apparently you are greatly under rating will be an ILB along with Jackson (my guess) They will add in the draft but to think it has to be at 15 is nonsense.

[Coltsalr]

Actually he said that the drop off after Garrett is steep then the rest are all very close, not much of a drop from 2-15 and beyond

Read it again, Garrett is in the pass rush group, I was taking about the ILB group, which he also addressed, and the dropoff I'm talking about aligns with the same one he cited.

[Coltsalr]

I am not sure why you keep pounding the table about no pass rush now after the FA period. Simon and Sheard will more than likely be the starting OLBs Spence who apparently you are greatly under rating will be an ILB along with Jackson (my guess) They will add in the draft but to think it has to be at 15 is nonsense.

You need more than two competent OLB's to generate a consistent pass rush, I hope you know.

And Jackson showed nothing to indicate he'll be anything resembling a solid starter. Melvin is better, comparatively, than Jackson. Thus, the need at ILB is greater.

[Puck]

You need more than two competent OLB's to generate a consistent pass rush, I hope you know.

And Jackson showed nothing to indicate he'll be anything resembling a solid starter. Melvin is better, comparatively, than Jackson. Thus, the need at ILB is greater.


Sure but they don't need to have 4 Pro Bowl OLB to do this. You sound more like Dam every day

[Coltsalr]

Sure but they don't need to have 4 Pro Bowl OLB to do this. You sound more like Dam every day

We don't have even one Pro Bowl OLB. We do, however, have one Pro Bowl CB.

You sound more and more like Skip Bayless everyday.

[rcubed]

---SCUTTLEBUTT---

saw on TV that mccaffrey has declined all private workouts and that a team in the teens has guaranteed him they will draft him if he is still there....

we draft in the teens, right?

[njcoltfan]

---SCUTTLEBUTT---

saw on TV that mccaffrey has declined all private workouts and that a team in the teens has guaranteed him they will draft him if he is still there....

we draft in the teens, right?

OH GOD !!! Please NO !!!

[YDFL Commish]

If Foster isn't there, I'd love to see them move back in round 1 while also adding that team's 2nd (yes, the Colts would have to add maybe a 4th to get that done). They could end up with something like:

1 - OLB Charles Harris
2- CB Sidney Jones
2 - ILB McMillan

I'm in favor of this idea, even if Foster is there. They would need to trade back to the 22 to 25 spots to make it work. But if they are assured to get a player like Harris, then absolutely do it.

[Coltsalr]

I'll also add that I really like Shaquille Griffin, who will probably be available in the 3rd. That's along with several other midround CB's (such as Teez Tabor) likely to be in the middle rounds this year.

I don't like any of the ILB's that are likely to be available in the 3rd. It's entirely possible that Cunningham/Davis/Foster/Reddick will all be gone in the 1st and then there possibly won't be a starting caliber player at all left in the draft at that position.

[YDFL Commish]

I'll also add that I really like Shaquille Griffin, who will probably be available in the 3rd. That's along with several other midround CB's (such as Teez Tabor) likely to be in the middle rounds this year.

I don't like any of the ILB's that are likely to be available in the 3rd. It's entirely possible that Cunningham/Davis/Foster/Reddick will all be gone in the 1st and then there possibly won't be a starting caliber player at all left in the draft at that position.

Although I'm not incredibly high on Raekwon McMillan, I still believe that he's a starting quality ILB.

[apballin]

Foster or Lamp, that's all

[VeveJones007]

I am not sure why you keep pounding the table about no pass rush now after the FA period. Simon and Sheard will more than likely be the starting OLBs Spence who apparently you are greatly under rating will be an ILB along with Jackson (my guess) They will add in the draft but to think it has to be at 15 is nonsense.

Maybe we're just not speaking the right language. This defense needs an elite pass rusher like Robert Mathis in his prime. Are you saying that either Simon or Sheard are that? If not, then it's still a need.

[VeveJones007]

I'm in favor of this idea, even if Foster is there. They would need to trade back to the 22 to 25 spots to make it work. But if they are assured to get a player like Harris, then absolutely do it.

Foster is probably the 2nd best player in the draft. No way I move down if I can get him at 15.

[Puck]

Maybe we're just not speaking the right language. This defense needs an elite pass rusher like Robert Mathis in his prime. Are you saying that either Simon or Sheard are that? If not, then it's still a need.

Didn't say it wasn't a need. I said there are other needs more demanding like have a CB2 on the roster

I remember Mathis record yr a few yrs ago. I also remember Toler chasing WR into the end zone play after play after play

There are a lot of needs on this team. Not just pass rush

[Spike]

Foster or Lamp, that's all

Lamp is one of the safer picks in the draft. We can't fuck around with the 15th pick in the draft and we have to protect Luck. After Lamp, draft all defense.

[sherck]

Lamp is one of the safer picks in the draft. We can't fuck around with the 15th pick in the draft and we have to protect Luck. After Lamp, draft all defense.
There are two problems with this concept.

1. We have needs at RB2 and TE3 that probably need to come from the draft. Sure, 4th and 5th round picks in my book but the draft cannot be "all defense" IMO.

2. Gil Brandt from NFL.com just released his "Top 150" prospects list and he has Lamp as the #41 overall prospect.
Walter Football has Lamp at #51 overall.
Matt Miller at Bleacher Reports has him at #47 overall.
DraftTek has Lamp at #30 overall.
CBSportsline has Lamp at #29 overall.
Sporting News does have him ranked #21 overall which is not much of a reach.

My point being is that while Lamp appears "safe" and is at a position of potential need (I disagree; whoever wins of Haeg, Good or Schwenke will be good), he appears to be not terribly good value at 1-15.

For fun, I decided to go back and look at the 2016 "Big Boards" to see where Ryan Kelly ranked.

Gil Brandt has him ranked at #25.
Walter Football had him ranked at #27.
Matt Miller had him ranked #20.
CBSportsline had him ranked #25.
Sports Illustrated did have him ranked #51. What do they know? :)

Anyway, my point is that Kelly was much more a "consensus" first round talent than Lamp is. Who knows how the Colts have Lamp ranked but just blindly deciding to take him in the first round at 1-15 seems a bit of a stretch.

Cheers,

[omahacolt]

There are two problems with this concept.

1. We have needs at RB2 and TE3 that probably need to come from the draft. Sure, 4th and 5th round picks in my book but the draft cannot be "all defense" IMO.

2. Gil Brandt from NFL.com just released his "Top 150" prospects list and he has Lamp as the #41 overall prospect.
Walter Football has Lamp at #51 overall.
Matt Miller at Bleacher Reports has him at #47 overall.
DraftTek has Lamp at #30 overall.
CBSportsline has Lamp at #29 overall.
Sporting News does have him ranked #21 overall which is not much of a reach.

My point being is that while Lamp appears "safe" and is at a position of potential need (I disagree; whoever wins of Haeg, Good or Schwenke will be good), he appears to be not terribly good value at 1-15.

For fun, I decided to go back and look at the 2016 "Big Boards" to see where Ryan Kelly ranked.

Gil Brandt has him ranked at #25.
Walter Football had him ranked at #27.
Matt Miller had him ranked #20.
CBSportsline had him ranked #25.
Sports Illustrated did have him ranked #51. What do they know? :)

Anyway, my point is that Kelly was much more a "consensus" first round talent than Lamp is. Who knows how the Colts have Lamp ranked but just blindly deciding to take him in the first round at 1-15 seems a bit of a stretch.

Cheers,

We don't need to draft a te 3 at all. The dude will likely be just a st's guy.

[Coltsalr]

We don't need to draft a te 3 at all. The dude will likely be just a st's guy.

We do also already have a TE3, special teams guy in Brandon Williams on the roster.

Not a priority, I would agree, IMO.

[natagu23]

There are two problems with this concept.

1. We have needs at RB2 and TE3 that probably need to come from the draft. Sure, 4th and 5th round picks in my book but the draft cannot be "all defense" IMO.

2. Gil Brandt from NFL.com just released his "Top 150" prospects list and he has Lamp as the #41 overall prospect.
Walter Football has Lamp at #51 overall.
Matt Miller at Bleacher Reports has him at #47 overall.
DraftTek has Lamp at #30 overall.
CBSportsline has Lamp at #29 overall.
Sporting News does have him ranked #21 overall which is not much of a reach.

My point being is that while Lamp appears "safe" and is at a position of potential need (I disagree; whoever wins of Haeg, Good or Schwenke will be good), he appears to be not terribly good value at 1-15.

For fun, I decided to go back and look at the 2016 "Big Boards" to see where Ryan Kelly ranked.

Gil Brandt has him ranked at #25.
Walter Football had him ranked at #27.
Matt Miller had him ranked #20.
CBSportsline had him ranked #25.
Sports Illustrated did have him ranked #51. What do they know? :)

Anyway, my point is that Kelly was much more a "consensus" first round talent than Lamp is. Who knows how the Colts have Lamp ranked but just blindly deciding to take him in the first round at 1-15 seems a bit of a stretch.

Cheers,

Trade back. Pick up more picks and draft Lamp.

Problem solved.

Im beginning to think we're in no mans land at 15 anyways.

Btw, we may have Lamp ranked higher on our draft boards like you mentioned. That Alabama tape doesnt lie.

[sherck]

So, some spare time on my hands......

Gil Brandt writes this in his "Top 150 Draft Prospects" article this week on NFL.com
This is the 57th year I have produced rankings of NFL draft prospects. In the early years when I was with the Cowboys, we had only a fraction of the information we have today, with very few confirmed measurements and times for prospects.

But that has all changed. I can now look at my database and pull the confirmed short-shuttle or three-cone time of the 947th-ranked prospect instantaneously ... and in a matter of seconds have on my computer screen in front of me all the third-down-and-short run plays he was involved in at his Div. III school.

It makes an evaluator's job easier and harder at the same time. There's so much more to consider with the overload of information, but ultimately it's more accurate info, which should (in theory) make draft boards around the league more informed and precise.
So, he has been doing this a LONG time. I decided to go back and look to see how accurate his ranking have been to where the player ended up being drafted.

I will not bore you with the spreadsheets but I looked at his last six years and analyzed the top 100 prospects. I noted where he said they ranked and where they ended up being drafted. Long story short:

-- Brandt is accurate in picking a players draft slot within 10 slots either way 75% of the time.

That means that if he ranks a guy as the #25 ranked guys, that 3 out of 4 times, that guy will be selected between 16 and 34. This is pretty easy to do at the top of the draft but get progressively harder when down in the 30s and 40s much less the 70s and 80s; however, Brandt still does a good job done there.

That 75% number accounts for a lot of factors, most notably player injury and QB jumping, that lower that percentage. I thought that was a pretty accurate percentage over six draft classes.

So, for our purposes, what does that mean? Players within 10 spots of our 2017 draft picks:

1-15 (#15):
06. Malik Hooker - S, Ohio State
07. Jonathan Allen - DT, Alabama
08. Mitchell Trubisky - QB, North Carolina
09. Deshaun Watson - QB, Clemson
10. John Ross - WR, Washington
11. Gareon Conley - CB, Ohio State
12. Christian McCaffrey - RB, Stanford
13. O.J. Howard - TE, Alabama
14. Reuben Foster - LB, Alabama
15. Cam Robinson - OT, Alabama
16. Derek Barnett - DE, Tennessee
17. Charles Harris - DE, Missouri
18. Parick Mahomes - QB, Texas Tech
19. Ryan Ramczyk - OT, Wisconsin
20. Jarrad Davis - LB, Florida
21. Jabrill Peppers - S, Michigan
22. Garett Bolles - OT, Utah
23. Mike Williams - WR, Clemson
24. Takkarist McKinley - DE, UCLA

Foster and Davis at ILB. Barnett, Harris or McKinley at OLB. Conley at CB. Peppers at S. We are going to get an impact defender.

2-14 (#46):
37. Haason Reddick - DE, Temple
38. Marcus Williams - S, Utah
39. Josh Jones - S, N.C. State
40. Jordan Willis - DE, Kansas St.
41. Forrest Lamp - G, Western Kentucky
42. Taco Charlton - DE, Michigan
43. Marlon Humphrey - CB, Alabama
44. Marcus Maye - S, Florida
45. Malik McDowell - DT, Michigan State
46. Zach Cunningham - LB, Vanderbilt
47. Tim Williams - LB, Alabama
48. Chris Wormley - DE, Michigan
49. Ryan Anderson - OLB, Alabama
50. Dan Feeney - OL, Indiana
51. Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State
52. Pat Elflein, C, Ohio State
53. Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M
54. Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
55. Budda Baker, S, Washington

Humphrey at CB, Cunningham at ILB, Charlton, Williams, Wormley, Anderson at OLB. Baker at S. All good choices.

3-16 (#80):
71. Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama
72. Raekwon McMillan, LB, Ohio State
73. Jordan Leggett, TE, Clemson
74. Dawuane Smoot, DE, Illinois
75. Josh Malone, WR, Tennessee
76. Carl Lawson, DE, Auburn
77. Duke Riley, OLB, LSU
78. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
79. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
80. Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming
81. Davis Webb, QB, Cal
82. Joshua Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
83. Isaac Asiata, OG, Utah
84. Cam Sutton, CB, Tennessee
85. Zach Banner, OT, USC
86. Jeremy Sprinkle, TE, Arkansas
87. D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas
88. Josh Reynolds, WR, Texas A&M
89. Vince Biegel, LB, Wisconsin

Some solid CBs in Jones and Sutton. I don't hate Duke Riley at OLB but I don't think he is much impact. McMillian at ILB is solid. Lots of, ehhhhhh in this list.

4-15 (#121):
112. Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami
113. John Johnson, S, Boston College
114. Kendell Beckwith, ILB, LSU
115. KD Cannon, WR, Baylor
116. Kenny Golladay, WR, Northern Illinois
117. Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
118. Danny Isidora, OG, Miami
119. Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland
120. Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
121. Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson
122. Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn
123. Carlos Henderson, WR-KR, Louisiana Tech
124. Amara Darboh, WR, Michigan
125. Anthony Walker, LB, Northwestern
126. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio
127. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky
128. Derek Rivers, DE, Youngstown St.
129. Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.
130. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy

Tankersley would be fantastic to get in the 4th. I like Tarell Basham as a developmental pass rusher. Pumphrey would be a pretty good RB2 in the 4th. I am sure some of the D-Line guys could help out.

4-31 (#137):
126. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio
127. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky
128. Derek Rivers, DE, Youngstown St.
129. Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.
130. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy
131. Howard Wilson, CB, Houston
132. Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo
133. Jehu Chesson, WR, Michigan
134. Jessamen Dunker, OG, Tennessee St.
135. Fadol Brown, DE, Ole Miss
136. Collin Buchanan, OT, Miami (Ohio)
137. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M
138. Larry Ogunjobi, OT, UNC-Charlotte
139. Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International
140. Shelton Gibson, WR, West Virginia
141. Jeremy McNichols, RB, Boise St.
142. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
143. Tarik Cohen, RB-KR, North Carolina A&T
144. Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
145. Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State
146. Brandon Barnes, TE, Alabama St.

4-38 (#144):
135. Fadol Brown, DE, Ole Miss
136. Collin Buchanan, OT, Miami (Ohio)
137. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M
138. Larry Ogunjobi, OT, UNC-Charlotte
139. Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International
140. Shelton Gibson, WR, West Virginia
141. Jeremy McNichols, RB, Boise St.
142. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
143. Tarik Cohen, RB-KR, North Carolina A&T
144. Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
145. Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State
146. Brandon Barnes, TE, Alabama St.
147. Ben Gedeon, ILB, Michigan
148. Ahkello Witherspoon, CB, Colorado
149. C.J. Beathard, QB, Iowa
150. Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas

Witherspoon is one of my "sleepers" at CB; I like his game. Jonnu Smith is an ideal TE3; he needs some technique coaching but has great physical traits and a lot of college experience. Some of the RB options are solid if we have not selected one by now.



Anyway, just some more food for thought as to the candidates whom might be available with our top picks. From a guy who gets those lists 75% right.

Cheers,

[sherck]

We do also already have a TE3, special teams guy in Brandon Williams on the roster.

Not a priority, I would agree, IMO.
For a team who ran 2 TE sets more than any other team in the NFL last year?

You are good with Williams being one of those options if either Doyle or Swoope get hurt? Or HAVING to play 3WR sets all the time?

Personally, I would want a better option than Brandon Williams playing depth TE.

Cheers,

[Puck]

So, some spare time on my hands......

Gil Brandt writes this in his "Top 150 Draft Prospects" article this week on NFL.com

So, he has been doing this a LONG time. I decided to go back and look to see how accurate his ranking have been to where the player ended up being drafted.

I will not bore you with the spreadsheets but I looked at his last six years and analyzed the top 100 prospects. I noted where he said they ranked and where they ended up being drafted. Long story short:

-- Brandt is accurate in picking a players draft slot within 10 slots either way 75% of the time.

That means that if he ranks a guy as the #25 ranked guys, that 3 out of 4 times, that guy will be selected between 16 and 34. This is pretty easy to do at the top of the draft but get progressively harder when down in the 30s and 40s much less the 70s and 80s; however, Brandt still does a good job done there.

That 75% number accounts for a lot of factors, most notably player injury and QB jumping, that lower that percentage. I thought that was a pretty accurate percentage over six draft classes.

So, for our purposes, what does that mean? Players within 10 spots of our 2017 draft picks:

1-15 (#15):
06. Malik Hooker - S, Ohio State
07. Jonathan Allen - DT, Alabama
08. Mitchell Trubisky - QB, North Carolina
09. Deshaun Watson - QB, Clemson
10. John Ross - WR, Washington
11. Gareon Conley - CB, Ohio State
12. Christian McCaffrey - RB, Stanford
13. O.J. Howard - TE, Alabama
14. Reuben Foster - LB, Alabama
15. Cam Robinson - OT, Alabama
16. Derek Barnett - DE, Tennessee
17. Charles Harris - DE, Missouri
18. Parick Mahomes - QB, Texas Tech
19. Ryan Ramczyk - OT, Wisconsin
20. Jarrad Davis - LB, Florida
21. Jabrill Peppers - S, Michigan
22. Garett Bolles - OT, Utah
23. Mike Williams - WR, Clemson
24. Takkarist McKinley - DE, UCLA

Foster and Davis at ILB. Barnett, Harris or McKinley at OLB. Conley at CB. Peppers at S. We are going to get an impact defender.

2-14 (#46):
37. Haason Reddick - DE, Temple
38. Marcus Williams - S, Utah
39. Josh Jones - S, N.C. State
40. Jordan Willis - DE, Kansas St.
41. Forrest Lamp - G, Western Kentucky
42. Taco Charlton - DE, Michigan
43. Marlon Humphrey - CB, Alabama
44. Marcus Maye - S, Florida
45. Malik McDowell - DT, Michigan State
46. Zach Cunningham - LB, Vanderbilt
47. Tim Williams - LB, Alabama
48. Chris Wormley - DE, Michigan
49. Ryan Anderson - OLB, Alabama
50. Dan Feeney - OL, Indiana
51. Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State
52. Pat Elflein, C, Ohio State
53. Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M
54. Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
55. Budda Baker, S, Washington

Humphrey at CB, Cunningham at ILB, Charlton, Williams, Wormley, Anderson at OLB. Baker at S. All good choices.

3-16 (#80):
71. Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama
72. Raekwon McMillan, LB, Ohio State
73. Jordan Leggett, TE, Clemson
74. Dawuane Smoot, DE, Illinois
75. Josh Malone, WR, Tennessee
76. Carl Lawson, DE, Auburn
77. Duke Riley, OLB, LSU
78. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
79. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
80. Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming
81. Davis Webb, QB, Cal
82. Joshua Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
83. Isaac Asiata, OG, Utah
84. Cam Sutton, CB, Tennessee
85. Zach Banner, OT, USC
86. Jeremy Sprinkle, TE, Arkansas
87. D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas
88. Josh Reynolds, WR, Texas A&M
89. Vince Biegel, LB, Wisconsin

Some solid CBs in Jones and Sutton. I don't hate Duke Riley at OLB but I don't think he is much impact. McMillian at ILB is solid. Lots of, ehhhhhh in this list.

4-15 (#121):
112. Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami
113. John Johnson, S, Boston College
114. Kendell Beckwith, ILB, LSU
115. KD Cannon, WR, Baylor
116. Kenny Golladay, WR, Northern Illinois
117. Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
118. Danny Isidora, OG, Miami
119. Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland
120. Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
121. Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson
122. Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn
123. Carlos Henderson, WR-KR, Louisiana Tech
124. Amara Darboh, WR, Michigan
125. Anthony Walker, LB, Northwestern
126. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio
127. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky
128. Derek Rivers, DE, Youngstown St.
129. Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.
130. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy

Tankersley would be fantastic to get in the 4th. I like Tarell Basham as a developmental pass rusher. Pumphrey would be a pretty good RB2 in the 4th. I am sure some of the D-Line guys could help out.

4-31 (#137):
126. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio
127. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky
128. Derek Rivers, DE, Youngstown St.
129. Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.
130. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy
131. Howard Wilson, CB, Houston
132. Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo
133. Jehu Chesson, WR, Michigan
134. Jessamen Dunker, OG, Tennessee St.
135. Fadol Brown, DE, Ole Miss
136. Collin Buchanan, OT, Miami (Ohio)
137. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M
138. Larry Ogunjobi, OT, UNC-Charlotte
139. Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International
140. Shelton Gibson, WR, West Virginia
141. Jeremy McNichols, RB, Boise St.
142. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
143. Tarik Cohen, RB-KR, North Carolina A&T
144. Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
145. Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State
146. Brandon Barnes, TE, Alabama St.

4-38 (#144):
135. Fadol Brown, DE, Ole Miss
136. Collin Buchanan, OT, Miami (Ohio)
137. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M
138. Larry Ogunjobi, OT, UNC-Charlotte
139. Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International
140. Shelton Gibson, WR, West Virginia
141. Jeremy McNichols, RB, Boise St.
142. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
143. Tarik Cohen, RB-KR, North Carolina A&T
144. Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
145. Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State
146. Brandon Barnes, TE, Alabama St.
147. Ben Gedeon, ILB, Michigan
148. Ahkello Witherspoon, CB, Colorado
149. C.J. Beathard, QB, Iowa
150. Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas

Witherspoon is one of my "sleepers" at CB; I like his game. Jonnu Smith is an ideal TE3; he needs some technique coaching but has great physical traits and a lot of college experience. Some of the RB options are solid if we have not selected one by now.



Anyway, just some more food for thought as to the candidates whom might be available with our top picks. From a guy who gets those lists 75% right.

Cheers,

So you're saying that 75% of the time he was right every time!!

[Coltsalr]

For a team who ran 2 TE sets more than any other team in the NFL last year?

You are good with Williams being one of those options if either Doyle or Swoope get hurt? Or HAVING to play 3WR sets all the time?

Personally, I would want a better option than Brandon Williams playing depth TE.

Cheers,

I would prefer that we run more 3/4 WR sets, given the relative amount of investment that we have in our WR's versus our TE's. If a lack of talent is the only way to force their hands into common sense, so be it I suppose, but I would agree that getting another guy is ideal.

I do tend to believe that the relative talent dropoff and its implications that if we stay talent depleted at certain positions on defense would hurt us more than having Brandon Williams as TE3.

[Dam8610]

So, some spare time on my hands......

Gil Brandt writes this in his "Top 150 Draft Prospects" article this week on NFL.com

So, he has been doing this a LONG time. I decided to go back and look to see how accurate his ranking have been to where the player ended up being drafted.

I will not bore you with the spreadsheets but I looked at his last six years and analyzed the top 100 prospects. I noted where he said they ranked and where they ended up being drafted. Long story short:

-- Brandt is accurate in picking a players draft slot within 10 slots either way 75% of the time.

That means that if he ranks a guy as the #25 ranked guys, that 3 out of 4 times, that guy will be selected between 16 and 34. This is pretty easy to do at the top of the draft but get progressively harder when down in the 30s and 40s much less the 70s and 80s; however, Brandt still does a good job done there.

That 75% number accounts for a lot of factors, most notably player injury and QB jumping, that lower that percentage. I thought that was a pretty accurate percentage over six draft classes.

So, for our purposes, what does that mean? Players within 10 spots of our 2017 draft picks:

1-15 (#15):
06. Malik Hooker - S, Ohio State
07. Jonathan Allen - DT, Alabama
08. Mitchell Trubisky - QB, North Carolina
09. Deshaun Watson - QB, Clemson
10. John Ross - WR, Washington
11. Gareon Conley - CB, Ohio State
12. Christian McCaffrey - RB, Stanford
13. O.J. Howard - TE, Alabama
14. Reuben Foster - LB, Alabama
15. Cam Robinson - OT, Alabama
16. Derek Barnett - DE, Tennessee
17. Charles Harris - DE, Missouri
18. Parick Mahomes - QB, Texas Tech
19. Ryan Ramczyk - OT, Wisconsin
20. Jarrad Davis - LB, Florida
21. Jabrill Peppers - S, Michigan
22. Garett Bolles - OT, Utah
23. Mike Williams - WR, Clemson
24. Takkarist McKinley - DE, UCLA

Foster and Davis at ILB. Barnett, Harris or McKinley at OLB. Conley at CB. Peppers at S. We are going to get an impact defender.

2-14 (#46):
37. Haason Reddick - DE, Temple
38. Marcus Williams - S, Utah
39. Josh Jones - S, N.C. State
40. Jordan Willis - DE, Kansas St.
41. Forrest Lamp - G, Western Kentucky
42. Taco Charlton - DE, Michigan
43. Marlon Humphrey - CB, Alabama
44. Marcus Maye - S, Florida
45. Malik McDowell - DT, Michigan State
46. Zach Cunningham - LB, Vanderbilt
47. Tim Williams - LB, Alabama
48. Chris Wormley - DE, Michigan
49. Ryan Anderson - OLB, Alabama
50. Dan Feeney - OL, Indiana
51. Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State
52. Pat Elflein, C, Ohio State
53. Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M
54. Ethan Pocic, C, LSU
55. Budda Baker, S, Washington

Humphrey at CB, Cunningham at ILB, Charlton, Williams, Wormley, Anderson at OLB. Baker at S. All good choices.

3-16 (#80):
71. Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama
72. Raekwon McMillan, LB, Ohio State
73. Jordan Leggett, TE, Clemson
74. Dawuane Smoot, DE, Illinois
75. Josh Malone, WR, Tennessee
76. Carl Lawson, DE, Auburn
77. Duke Riley, OLB, LSU
78. Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
79. Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
80. Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming
81. Davis Webb, QB, Cal
82. Joshua Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
83. Isaac Asiata, OG, Utah
84. Cam Sutton, CB, Tennessee
85. Zach Banner, OT, USC
86. Jeremy Sprinkle, TE, Arkansas
87. D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas
88. Josh Reynolds, WR, Texas A&M
89. Vince Biegel, LB, Wisconsin

Some solid CBs in Jones and Sutton. I don't hate Duke Riley at OLB but I don't think he is much impact. McMillian at ILB is solid. Lots of, ehhhhhh in this list.

4-15 (#121):
112. Brad Kaaya, QB, Miami
113. John Johnson, S, Boston College
114. Kendell Beckwith, ILB, LSU
115. KD Cannon, WR, Baylor
116. Kenny Golladay, WR, Northern Illinois
117. Jake Butt, TE, Michigan
118. Danny Isidora, OG, Miami
119. Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland
120. Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson
121. Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson
122. Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn
123. Carlos Henderson, WR-KR, Louisiana Tech
124. Amara Darboh, WR, Michigan
125. Anthony Walker, LB, Northwestern
126. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio
127. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky
128. Derek Rivers, DE, Youngstown St.
129. Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.
130. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy

Tankersley would be fantastic to get in the 4th. I like Tarell Basham as a developmental pass rusher. Pumphrey would be a pretty good RB2 in the 4th. I am sure some of the D-Line guys could help out.

4-31 (#137):
126. Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio
127. Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky
128. Derek Rivers, DE, Youngstown St.
129. Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego St.
130. Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy
131. Howard Wilson, CB, Houston
132. Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo
133. Jehu Chesson, WR, Michigan
134. Jessamen Dunker, OG, Tennessee St.
135. Fadol Brown, DE, Ole Miss
136. Collin Buchanan, OT, Miami (Ohio)
137. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M
138. Larry Ogunjobi, OT, UNC-Charlotte
139. Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International
140. Shelton Gibson, WR, West Virginia
141. Jeremy McNichols, RB, Boise St.
142. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
143. Tarik Cohen, RB-KR, North Carolina A&T
144. Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
145. Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State
146. Brandon Barnes, TE, Alabama St.

4-38 (#144):
135. Fadol Brown, DE, Ole Miss
136. Collin Buchanan, OT, Miami (Ohio)
137. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M
138. Larry Ogunjobi, OT, UNC-Charlotte
139. Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International
140. Shelton Gibson, WR, West Virginia
141. Jeremy McNichols, RB, Boise St.
142. Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina
143. Tarik Cohen, RB-KR, North Carolina A&T
144. Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota
145. Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State
146. Brandon Barnes, TE, Alabama St.
147. Ben Gedeon, ILB, Michigan
148. Ahkello Witherspoon, CB, Colorado
149. C.J. Beathard, QB, Iowa
150. Deatrich Wise, DE, Arkansas

Witherspoon is one of my "sleepers" at CB; I like his game. Jonnu Smith is an ideal TE3; he needs some technique coaching but has great physical traits and a lot of college experience. Some of the RB options are solid if we have not selected one by now.



Anyway, just some more food for thought as to the candidates whom might be available with our top picks. From a guy who gets those lists 75% right.

Cheers,


On those lists, give me:

15) Reuben Foster
46) Haason Reddick
80) Raekwon McMillan/Carl Lawson
121) Cordrea Tankersley
137) Jeremy McNichols

And I'm happy. Don't really care what the last one is at that point.

[VeveJones007]

On those lists, give me:

15) Reuben Foster
46) Haason Reddick
80) Raekwon McMillan/Carl Lawson
121) Cordrea Tankersley
137) Jeremy McNichols

And I'm happy. Don't really care what the last one is at that point.

Only quibble is that they should take Sidney Jones at 3.15. Can't pass up a 1st round talent there.