Before we discard Kelly and Smith, consider…

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by ukcolt

I am not sure what some of you were watching last year. Braden Smith had a knee injury that he was battling through and was still playing fairly decent football...

I was about to comment the same. There is a real question about whether it's optimal to bring him back due to multiple factors. But saying he was playing bad... there's a disconnect for me.

Raimann-Nelson-Kelly-Fries-Smith was a top-3 (arguably top-1) line.

Originally Posted by Dam8610

I'm not a huge fan of PFF grades, but just by watching, Matt Goncalves was not a noticeable dropoff from Braden Smith, so why pay Smith $20 mil when Goncalves can provide similar play for 3rd round rookie money? I'll put it this way: I'd rather have Jevon Holland and Goncalves starting at RT than Braden Smith.

Agreed. That's some of the nuance. I don't think Goncalves was better than Smith last year, and honestly, probably won't be as good as Smith next year. And it would be a feat if he is able to match Smith's peak at some point.

But is it a 90% difference in play like it is in salary? No. And Goncalvez has plenty of upside.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

You always have a criticism, but how about for once you talk about what you would like to see happen as an alternative instead of just incessantly bitching, whining, moaning, and desperately wishing that Chris Ballard will finally come to your bedroom tonight?

Inherent in my post, would be what I would do- fucking what any GM not named Chris Ballard would do- not sign these two and sign other FA's which are better than them; we HAVE to change this damn culture and create some uncomfortableness at every damn position. Telling a couple old timers that have had good careers but haven't been top level performers of late that they have to go, is a good way to start that process.

I'm not the GM, I don't have the financial modeling in front of me, I don't have access to 22 film for every player in the NFL, and those coming into the NFL, that Chris fucking lazy as fuck Ballard has. So, am I capable of doing the evaluations Chris Ballard and his TEAM are equipped to do in order to say who that means I sign, fuck no. But to answer your fucking obtuse question, I would do what I infer in my post- not bring these two back, along with probably greater than 50% of the half assed effort entitled B level players this fucking asshole has propped up as NFL all-timers.

But alas, we will continue to Ballard for another 330 days or so and be back here at this time next year wondering why we didn't sign "X", "Y", or "Z" instead... pay attention dumb ass, this is the wash rinse repeat cycle we live in under FBF and why we suck over and over.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

Inherent in my post, would be what I would do- fucking what any GM not named Chris Ballard would do- not sign these two and sign other FA's which are better than them; we HAVE to change this damn culture and create some uncomfortableness at every damn position. Telling a couple old timers that have had good careers but haven't been top level performers of late that they have to go, is a good way to start that process.

I'm not the GM, I don't have the financial modeling in front of me, I don't have access to 22 film for every player in the NFL, and those coming into the NFL, that Chris fucking lazy as fuck Ballard has. So, am I capable of doing the evaluations Chris Ballard and his TEAM are equipped to do in order to say who that means I sign, fuck no. But to answer your fucking obtuse question, I would do what I infer in my post- not bring these two back, along with probably greater than 50% of the half assed effort entitled B level players this fucking asshole has propped up as NFL all-timers.

But alas, we will continue to Ballard for another 330 days or so and be back here at this time next year wondering why we didn't sign "X", "Y", or "Z" instead... pay attention dumb ass, this is the wash rinse repeat cycle we live in under FBF and why we suck over and over.

So you're not willing to actually express an opinion of your own, all you can do is bitch about how poorly Ballard is doing?

So those two guys you want to replace, Kelly and Smith, do you know why it's possible to replace them without spending most of the remaining cap space to do it? Because Ballard drafted a starting caliber RT and C in rounds 3 and 4 last year. I know you wouldn't do that.

If you're not actually willing to have an opinion about what should be done differently, then you should just quit your bitching, because the team certainly wouldn't be better off if they did what you want them to.

[YDFL Commish]

It borders on insanity to let Kelly walk and at the same time lose Braden Smith to either retirement or release.

Ballard did that once and we had our worst season since 2017. Who wants to live through that again.

If Smith retires, then resign Kelly. If Smith agrees to stay and restructure, then you consider letting Kelly walk.

[ukcolt]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

I'm not a huge fan of PFF grades, but just by watching, Matt Goncalves was not a noticeable dropoff from Braden Smith, so why pay Smith $20 mil when Goncalves can provide similar play for 3rd round rookie money? I'll put it this way: I'd rather have Jevon Holland and Goncalves starting at RT than Braden Smith.

Based on Smith's performance he wasn't significantly better than Goncalves, but i know Smith is capable of being a top 5-10 tackle in the league, he has already been that. He was playing with a bum knee most of the year, and yet still played as well as Goncalves.

I am not saying i dislike Goncalves, i thought he played really well for a rookie, and you would like to think that he will develop, but into a true top tier RT, like Smith has been, who knows? I just don't think you discard players who are amongst the best at their position, unless you know he has other issues that are not likely to get better, hopefully that is not the case though, but we don't know.

If we do release Smith, and start Goncalves at RT, i for one am not happy going into the season with Blake Freeland as the primary backup to both tackle positions. We would need to luck out on another mid round gem. And i think we have other holes that we desperately need to find draft picks to fill. Such as TE, Safety LB, and backup RB. As well as CB, backup NT etc.

Both of our starting interior defensive linemen are on the wrong side of 30 now, and the only player on the roster on the interior that i can say i am still happy to keep on the roster is Adetomiwa Adebawore, and he hasn't exactly proven to be reliable either. Davis and Bryan, are both unlikely to be back. Yeah you can bring back Dayo, and use him more to backup Buckner and stop trying to use him on the outside where he really hasn't been that affective, that might be one solution with the new defensive co-ordinator.

We have a lot of holes that we need to fill/upgrade.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

So you're not willing to actually express an opinion of your own, all you can do is bitch about how poorly Ballard is doing?

So those two guys you want to replace, Kelly and Smith, do you know why it's possible to replace them without spending most of the remaining cap space to do it? Because Ballard drafted a starting caliber RT and C in rounds 3 and 4 last year. I know you wouldn't do that.

If you're not actually willing to have an opinion about what should be done differently, then you should just quit your bitching, because the team certainly wouldn't be better off if they did what you want them to.

What is wrong with you, what continues to be wrong with you after all these years? What should be done? Stop the insanity of fucking buying into your own mythology that the guys you pick / acquire are fucking great and deserve to be re-signed; they aren't and don't! The FACTS are, they aren't fucking good enough. The record over 8+ years is proof of that, so fucking stop doing that same fucking thing.

THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE! That's why all but 5 people in the entire fan base are irate that his stupid fucking non-producing con-man ass is still here- because he refuses to hold anyone accountable for fucking anything- he rewards performance that isn't acceptable!

Fine, go with the draft picks, good with it, fucking role with the two guys drafted, teach them to be better than the guys they are replacing, tell them that if they aren't, they get pulled and someone else will take their fucking jobs. Send that message to every fucking player on the team. THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE! Stop rewarding mediocrity! THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE!

Team Run-It-Back, for a team that can't even make the playoffs... How in the FUCK can anyone justify this shit over and over?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ukcolt

Based on Smith's performance he wasn't significantly better than Goncalves, but i know Smith is capable of being a top 5-10 tackle in the league, he has already been that. He was playing with a bum knee most of the year, and yet still played as well as Goncalves.

I am not saying i dislike Goncalves, i thought he played really well for a rookie, and you would like to think that he will develop, but into a true top tier RT, like Smith has been, who knows? I just don't think you discard players who are amongst the best at their position, unless you know he has other issues that are not likely to get better, hopefully that is not the case though, but we don't know.

If we do release Smith, and start Goncalves at RT, i for one am not happy going into the season with Blake Freeland as the primary backup to both tackle positions. We would need to luck out on another mid round gem. And i think we have other holes that we desperately need to find draft picks to fill. Such as TE, Safety LB, and backup RB. As well as CB, backup NT etc.

Both of our starting interior defensive linemen are on the wrong side of 30 now, and the only player on the roster on the interior that i can say i am still happy to keep on the roster is Adetomiwa Adebawore, and he hasn't exactly proven to be reliable either. Davis and Bryan, are both unlikely to be back. Yeah you can bring back Dayo, and use him more to backup Buckner and stop trying to use him on the outside where he really hasn't been that affective, that might be one solution with the new defensive co-ordinator.

We have a lot of holes that we need to fill/upgrade.

I agree that we have many holes to fill, which is why I would part ways with Smith. It's better to get out on a player a year early than a year late, and having Goncalves means we have a starting caliber RT at a fraction of the price, and the money saved can be reallocated to address some of those roster needs. Backup OT is also a much cheaper position to fill than starting RT. I'd be willing to draft a rookie and let he and Freeland battle it out for the swing tackle spot if it meant Jevon Holland and D.J. Reed/Charvarius Ward were shoring up the secondary.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

What is wrong with you, what continues to be wrong with you after all these years? What should be done? Stop the insanity of fucking buying into your own mythology that the guys you pick / acquire are fucking great and deserve to be re-signed; they aren't and don't! The FACTS are, they aren't fucking good enough. The record over 8+ years is proof of that, so fucking stop doing that same fucking thing.

THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE! That's why all but 5 people in the entire fan base are irate that his stupid fucking non-producing con-man ass is still here- because he refuses to hold anyone accountable for fucking anything- he rewards performance that isn't acceptable!

Fine, go with the draft picks, good with it, fucking role with the two guys drafted, teach them to be better than the guys they are replacing, tell them that if they aren't, they get pulled and someone else will take their fucking jobs. Send that message to every fucking player on the team. THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE! Stop rewarding mediocrity! THAT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE!

Team Run-It-Back, for a team that can't even make the playoffs... How in the FUCK can anyone justify this shit over and over?

You're not naming players. While I disagree with them, I can at least respect the opinions of the people who say that Ballard should've gone all in for Justin Herbert or Jordan Love or Jalen Hurts because at least they're trying to find and point out the missed opportunities. You're just bitching for the sake of it. Hell, I'll even feed your rage boner and give you a golden opportunity I thought Ballard missed, which was drafting Montez Sweat in 2019 when he fell to 26. The Colts did end up with Michael Pittman Jr. out of that deal, but players like Sweat typically aren't available that late in the draft.

Without the how of things being done differently, your rants are pointless. According to what you're saying, "doing things differently" could be cutting the whole roster and signing all new players. That would be incredibly stupid, but it would also fit your definition. Everyone here would hate it, and I'm sure you'd be the first and loudest one bitching about it, but that would fit the definition of what you're saying you want done. So put some targets out there, or quit tye incessant bitching. We're all incredibly aware of your constant rage boner for Ballard, you don't need to clog up every discussion with it.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

You're not naming players. While I disagree with them, I can at least respect the opinions of the people who say that Ballard should've gone all in for Justin Herbert or Jordan Love or Jalen Hurts because at least they're trying to find and point out the missed opportunities. You're just bitching for the sake of it. Hell, I'll even feed your rage boner and give you a golden opportunity I thought Ballard missed, which was drafting Montez Sweat in 2019 when he fell to 26. The Colts did end up with Michael Pittman Jr. out of that deal, but players like Sweat typically aren't available that late in the draft.

Without the how of things being done differently, your rants are pointless. According to what you're saying, "doing things differently" could be cutting the whole roster and signing all new players. That would be incredibly stupid, but it would also fit your definition. Everyone here would hate it, and I'm sure you'd be the first and loudest one bitching about it, but that would fit the definition of what you're saying you want done. So put some targets out there, or quit tye incessant bitching. We're all incredibly aware of your constant rage boner for Ballard, you don't need to clog up every discussion with it.

Are you obscenely obtuse, or just flat fucking stupid- or both?

There are lists on here where we have all, nearly to a man, went player by player and debated who should and should not be retained. Fuck man, there are NFL pundits- people that unlike us idiots on a msg board, get paid to talk about such things, that have basically done the same by going through our roster. In BOTH cases, we almost universally agree there are a BUNCH of fucking players that should either be released, or not brought back.

What are you not seeing? This team isn't good enough as constructed. That means there are a LOT of people on the team that need to not be here any more. Yet here we are again fucking developing straw men arguments as to why two old heads that can't stay on the field for whatever reason, warrant at least serious consideration for keeping. WHY? Isn't the predominant complaint about FBF that he refuses to go after other players- principally refusing to acknowledge FA as a real thing? Seems to me, that's what we ALL bitch about with the fucking dude. But alas, here we are, basically being Ballard! Keep what we got because at one point they were stalwarts. No, no, not any longer, this approach needs to be fucking burned and erased from the strategy book. New faces, new standards, new accountability!

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

Are you obscenely obtuse, or just flat fucking stupid- or both?

There are lists on here where we have all, nearly to a man, went player by player and debated who should and should not be retained. Fuck man, there are NFL pundits- people that unlike us idiots on a msg board, get paid to talk about such things, that have basically done the same by going through our roster. In BOTH cases, we almost universally agree there are a BUNCH of fucking players that should either be released, or not brought back.

What are you not seeing? This team isn't good enough as constructed. That means there are a LOT of people on the team that need to not be here any more. Yet here we are again fucking developing straw men arguments as to why two old heads that can't stay on the field for whatever reason, warrant at least serious consideration for keeping. WHY? Isn't the predominant complaint about FBF that he refuses to go after other players- principally refusing to acknowledge FA as a real thing? Seems to me, that's what we ALL bitch about with the fucking dude. But alas, here we are, basically being Ballard! Keep what we got because at one point they were stalwarts. No, no, not any longer, this approach needs to be fucking burned and erased from the strategy book. New faces, new standards, new accountability!

You talk about strawmen, then argue to someone who's said multiple times in this thread that we should not resign Kelly and consider cutting Smith that they're obtuse or stupid because you think we should not resign Kelly and consider cutting Smith. Reading comprehension can be helpful, so can not just blindly raging about everything. So far, you've articulated half of a plan, but getting rid of players for more access to cap space does no good unless you have an affirmative plan to use that cap space on something that will make the team better. So what does that part look like for you?