It's Done! Frank is gone!

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

What specifically is wrong with the building strategy? I hear this all the time from the local media guys and I don't think they know what they are talking about.

Ballard has specifically said we are not going all out till we get the QB in place. He also thinks teams that skirt and manipulate the cap like the Saints are crazy and it will come around to get them. Saints are about to face that. League may also start to close those loop holes bc they want parity. Ballard thinks the team was ready to win now, that is why they were going the vet route. He is right, the team can win now with solid QB play.

I have been criticizing Ballard for years on here for some of his flaws. But I do think the positives outweigh those flaws. He did botch the LT situation. Not saying he didn't. But he has also done a lot of good things as well. This defense is good. I think the oline will get better with a LT in place. The weapons are young and explosive. He continually knocks it out of the park in the draft. A GM's primary job is to find talent and he does that well. That is not easy to find. We have had two good GM's at it in 38 years.

It doesn't matter. Ballard looked pissed yesterday, he may resign, and he will get another job immediately. Meanwhile, we will have trouble finding a good candidate because of this shitshow.

If the measurement is adding talent then I think you have to say we had 3 good GMS and add Tobin to the mix. Tobin actually kind of reminds me of Ballard as he made some damn good draft picks, but he made too many stupid ass decisions and was fired for it. We'll see if that happens to Ballard.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

If the measurement is adding talent then I think you have to say we had 3 good GMS and add Tobin to the mix. Tobin actually kind of reminds me of Ballard as he made some damn good draft picks, but he made too many stupid ass decisions and was fired for it. We'll see if that happens to Ballard.

I thought about Tobin. Faulk, Harrison, Glenn, Meadows, Dilger contrasted by Trev Alberts and Ellis Johnson. In the draft. That's really good.

Led by Harbaugh and they got goose in the middle. The rest of his drafts were filler though and he was a bit of a hot head. The team peaked there for a little bit. But it was a pretty short time.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

I thought about Tobin. Faulk, Harrison, Glenn, Meadows, Dilger contrasted by Trev Alberts and Ellis Johnson. In the draft. That's really good.

Led by Harbaugh and they got goose in the middle. The rest of his drafts were filler though and he was a bit of a hot head. The team peaked there for a little bit. But it was a pretty short time.

Ellis Johnson was actually pretty good: 10 years in the league, 51 sacks and 41 TFL. Not HOF, but pretty good for a DT.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JohnEl20.htm

Tobin was only here for 4 years and yeah he didn't get a lot from the later rounds. But for the most part he hit it out of the park w/ his 1st and 2nd rounders and left a pretty good foundation for when BP took over and added Peyton.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Ellis Johnson was actually pretty good: 10 years in the league, 51 sacks and 41 TFL. Not HOF, but pretty good for a DT.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...J/JohnEl20.htm

Tobin was only here for 4 years and yeah he didn't get a lot from the later rounds. But for the most part he hit it out of the park w/ his 1st and 2nd rounders and left a pretty good foundation for when BP took over and added Peyton.

Ellis had some moments, but I remember him disappearing for long stretches as well. For a first rounder not as consistent as you would want. Dilger was the best pick of that draft. Tarik and Marvin were his best. Too bad he stunk in other areas. Polian was better at filling out the roster.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

Ellis had some moments, but I remember him disappearing for long stretches as well. For a first rounder not as consistent as you would want. Dilger was the best pick of that draft. Tarik and Marvin were his best. Too bad he stunk in other areas. Polian was better at filling out the roster.

No doubt BP was head and shoulders better than Tobin, and that's fair on Ellis. You just had him lumped in w/ Trev Alberts so wanted to show that he was at least decent and not pretty much a waste of a pick like Alberts ended up being.

Agree on Glenn and Marvin, although I'd lump Marshall Faulk in there as well. Not Tobin's fault that BP decided to trade Faulk and got minimal return for him.

Anyway, if you draft 2 HOFers, a multi-time pro bowler and ROH member, and several other long lasting productive players in just 4 years then you're doing pretty well at that part of the job IMHO.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

No doubt BP was head and shoulders better than Tobin, and that's fair on Ellis. You just had him lumped in w/ Trev Alberts so wanted to show that he was at least decent and not pretty much a waste of a pick like Alberts ended up being.

Agree on Glenn and Marvin, although I'd lump Marshall Faulk in there as well. Not Tobin's fault that BP decided to trade Faulk and got minimal return for him.

Anyway, if you draft 2 HOFers, a multi-time pro bowler and ROH member, and several other long lasting productive players in just 4 years then you're doing pretty well at that part of the job IMHO.

I mean two HOF'ers, that is great; but if you get out of the first round it's not good. It's like he was only good at picking in the first. I'm kinda split on him, its an interesting argument.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

I mean two HOF'ers, that is great; but if you get out of the first round it's not good. It's like he was only good at picking in the first. I'm kinda split on him, its an interesting argument.

Yeah, been a fun discussion, and it actually drove me to look up our drafts during the Tobin years to see if there was anyone of note drafted in the later rounds.

I can say that Tobin batted .500 in the 2nd round w/ Dilger in '95 and Adam Meadows in '97 being his hits and Eric Mahlum in '94 and Dedric Mathis in '96 his misses. Mathis was a complete bust only lasting 2 years w/ the Colts. I think Mahlum would have been ok, nothing great, but got hurt in '95 and then had a knee injury in '96 that ended his NFL career. The worst thing about the Mahlum pick was who we passed on to get him: Isaac Bruce, Kevin Mawae, and (get this) 11 time Pro Bowler and HOFer Larry Allen. To be fair Allen was 14 picks after Mahlum, so we weren't the only team who foolishly passed on him.

Other than that the only other players I recognized were 2 3rd rounders: OT Jason Mathews in '94 and DE Bertrand Berry in '97. Berry ended up being a pretty good player, just not for the Colts. He had 65 career sacks, which included 11.5 for DEN in '03 and 14.5 for AZ in '04. Mathews started 31 games for us in '95 and '96 then looks like he was benched in '97. After that he went to Tenn as a backup until '04.

But yeah, not much to write about with all of the other picks.

Edit: Forgot to mention Zack Crockett in the 3rd round in '95. He didn't rush for a ton of yards, but he did stick around in the league for 13 years and had a playoff game for the ages for us at the Chargers in '95.