Poll ...... Keep Frank Reich or Fire Him

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by rm1369

You are absolutely correct - he’d be getting killed even more. But the Colts' D gave up 31 points in the last 6 possessions by TB. I think Frank has to be aggressive offensively because, unless aided by weather, the D is going to fall apart. It happens pretty damn consistently.

o


How much more aggressive can Reich be than going for it on 4th and goal the from opponents' 4 yard-line with less than 2 minutes to play in the first half ??? Or by calling for a pass on 27 consecutive plays from scrimmage, including the times in which Wentz scrambled out of the pocket to run and/or fumbled the ball when he was sacked ???

I understand what you are saying about trying to overcompensate for the defense, and the first thing that comes to mind is when Dan Marino had to try and out-gun his awful Dolphins defense between 1986 and 1989 ...... but if the offense turns the ball over 3 or 4 times in a game, there really isn't much that the offense can do to compensate for its own failures. The defense was put into bad a bad position by the offense (and the special teams) on numerous occasions when they turned the ball over on multiple occasions throughout the Buccaneers game, turnovers that shifted the momentum of the game greatly.

o

[Oldcolt]

Isn't a person alive I agree 100% with, including myself (I do change my mind). I have disagreed with him on quite a lot of things. Don't like going away from the run is number one. I am not crazy about all this going for it on 4th all the time. Yet this man has the qualities that are rare in a human being. He is honest, cares about people as people and is definitely someone I can root for. Who else would you bring in? We have been drafting for 4 years (don't count the first) with what Reich/Ballard both have in mind. We have a QB that needs Reich to be successful (at least I wouldn't want to chance it with another coach). Reich stays. We have gotten away from our identity a little, I expect that to change in the next run of games. Who knows what this year will bring if we do, could be a Lombardi!!!

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Isn't a person alive I agree 100% with, including myself (I do change my mind). I have disagreed with him on quite a lot of things. Don't like going away from the run is number one. I am not crazy about all this going for it on 4th all the time. Yet this man has the qualities that are rare in a human being. He is honest, cares about people as people and is definitely someone I can root for. Who else would you bring in? We have been drafting for 4 years (don't count the first) with what Reich/Ballard both have in mind. We have a QB that needs Reich to be successful (at least I wouldn't want to chance it with another coach). Reich stays. We have gotten away from our identity a little, I expect that to change in the next run of games. Who knows what this year will bring if we do, could be a Lombardi!!!

But isn't the problem that our identity has become HIM? I don't know that he has the aptitude to revert back to something else. We'll see I suppose.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o


How much more aggressive can Reich be than going for it on 4th and goal the from opponents' 4 yard-line with less than 2 minutes to play in the first half ??? Or by calling for a pass on 27 consecutive plays from scrimmage, including the times in which Wentz scrambled out of the pocket to run and/or fumbled the ball when he was sacked ???

I understand what you are saying about trying to overcompensate for the defense, and the first thing that comes to mind is when Dan Marino had to try and out-gun his awful Dolphins defense between 1986 and 1989 ...... but if the offense turns the ball over 3 or 4 times in a game, there really isn't much that the offense can do to compensate for its own failures. The defense was put into bad a bad position by the offense (and the special teams) on numerous occasions when they turned the ball over on multiple occasions throughout the Buccaneers game, turnovers that shifted the momentum of the game greatly.

o

I’m not suggesting he needs to be more aggressive, I’m saying it is very likely a big factor in his decision making. And one that I agree with.

I see two issues with your argument. One is that you are putting the turnovers on Franks play calling. I definitely disagree. The sack / fumble maybe. I don’t really agree, but ok. Pascals fumble? Hines fumble? The first interception? No I don’t think there was anything wrong with those play calls. It was all execution.

The second issue is you are wrong on the offense putting the defense in holes in the TB game. I’ve posted it, but go look at the drive lengths in the TB touchdowns. There are no 30 yd TD drives. No 40 yarders. No 50 yarders. The shortest one was 65 yards - 10 yards less than a touchback. Against Baltimore the shortest TD drive was 68 yds. It’s just an inaccurate statement.

I just still find it strange that the Colts rank as one of the top offenses and a mediocre / bad defense (except takeaways), yet everyone wants to put the failures on the offensive play calling.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I’m not suggesting he needs to be more aggressive, I’m saying it is very likely a big factor in his decision making. And one that I agree with.

I see two issues with your argument. One is that you are putting the turnovers on Franks play calling. I definitely disagree. The sack / fumble maybe. I don’t really agree, but ok. Pascals fumble? Hines fumble? The first interception? No I don’t think there was anything wrong with those play calls. It was all execution.

The second issue is you are wrong on the offense putting the defense in holes in the TB game. I’ve posted it, but go look at the drive lengths in the TB touchdowns. There are no 30 yd TD drives. No 40 yarders. No 50 yarders. The shortest one was 65 yards - 10 yards less than a touchback. Against Baltimore the shortest TD drive was 68 yds. It’s just an inaccurate statement.

I just still find it strange that the Colts rank as one of the top offenses and a mediocre / bad defense (except takeaways), yet everyone wants to put the failures on the offensive play calling.

This is a good post, and your last statement is exactly why I voted FIRE in the poll, and I realize I will be joined by few if any.

Your post is spot on, routinely this defense gives up sustained drive after sustained drive, and it actually seems as though the plan is as simple as "Darius go make a play". This isn't a this year / injuries / thing. This is a consistent pattern that happens essentially every single game. Yet, what do we do, the same damn thing we do - soft zone, huge bubble in the middle of the field with a blitz maybe like 3 times a game. At some point- as the HC, it's your job to say enough, that has to stop. And yes, I am aware Ebersuck wasn't brought here by Frank, doesn't matter, at this point he is held accountable as the HC of this team and if he wasn't satisfied with this he would have made a change or at least told Ballard to stand on his guy and do something different.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

This is a good post, and your last statement is exactly why I voted FIRE in the poll, and I realize I will be joined by few if any.

Your post is spot on, routinely this defense gives up sustained drive after sustained drive, and it actually seems as though the plan is as simple as "Darius go make a play". This isn't a this year / injuries / thing. This is a consistent pattern that happens essentially every single game. Yet, what do we do, the same damn thing we do - soft zone, huge bubble in the middle of the field with a blitz maybe like 3 times a game. At some point- as the HC, it's your job to say enough, that has to stop. And yes, I am aware Ebersuck wasn't brought here by Frank, doesn't matter, at this point he is held accountable as the HC of this team and if he wasn't satisfied with this he would have made a change or at least told Ballard to stand on his guy and do something different.

For me this is a Ballard issue and not a Reich one. Not because he hired Eberflus, but because of the makeup of the roster. Look at the career production levels of this teams DEs. That is where the majority of the pass rush pressure should come from in this defense. I’m sorry, you can’t coach to correct that. Especially when you are lacking at CB because of talent issues and Safety because of injury. Forcing teams to slowly and methodically move down the field instead of giving up huge plays is likely preferable as it leaves a better chance they will error or the D can create a turnover (the one thing they are good at). But either way, suggesting the D should be able to be good if the coach just schemed better is unrealistic when the talent deficiencies are so obvious and glaring, IMO. I’m not a fan of Eberflus’ scheme, but he has to have players to run it. That’s on Ballard.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by rm1369

For me this is a Ballard issue and not a Reich one. Not because he hired Eberflus, but because of the makeup of the roster. Look at the career production levels of this teams DEs. That is where the majority of the pass rush pressure should come from in this defense. I’m sorry, you can’t coach to correct that. Especially when you are lacking at CB because of talent issues and Safety because of injury. Forcing teams to slowly and methodically move down the field instead of giving up huge plays is likely preferable as it leaves a better chance they will error or the D can create a turnover (the one thing they are good at). But either way, suggesting the D should be able to be good if the coach just schemed better is unrealistic when the talent deficiencies are so obvious and glaring, IMO. I’m not a fan of Eberflus’ scheme, but he has to have players to run it. That’s on Ballard.

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

I am not a fan of the scheme. I wasn’t thrilled with the hire when it was made and was critical of some of the vet cuts that were made during the transition. It is a relatively “simple” defense by design though. Something Ballard has commented on as a positive. One that is supposed to then allow defensive players to play fast. Hence the emphasis on athletic measurables. And one that allows young players to pick it up quickly. That fits Ballard’s emphasis on the draft. Agree or disagree on the supposed advantages, but let’s be clear who’s decision all of that was. It was 100% Ballard’s. Not Reich’s. And in the middle of a season with rookie DEs as your main hope, and street free agents in the secondary is not the time to change all of that.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

DE's, yep, Ballard has crapped the bed. However, we do have an all-world DT, and All-universe LB, and an at least All-North America 1st team all star in the slot. So we have talent.

I don't know. Listening to Venturi, there's a lot more here than just not having the right guys at DE to make this work. Listening to him, this scheme is straight out of high school and any decent QB will just devour it- which seems to prove true. Again, year over year, the completion percentages are absolutely absurd. We create "historical" days for QB's all the time. That has to transcend the DE position. Bending but not breaking due to personnel / injuries, yeah I can see some of that. Allowing 75%+ completion percentages... nah there's more to it.

I've wondered if the evolution of the passing game, rule changes, and the Air Raid football that kids are running as early as junior high now makes this style of defense antiquated.

I get the idea of preventing the big play by allowing short stuff and this creates more opportunities for the front four to get home or for the offense to make a mistake and kill a drive.

Well, these kids are growing up with 7-on-7 their whole lives and pitch-and-catch is easier for more QB's than it used to be. And the great QB's don't miss.

So that leaves disruption through pressure, which we just don't do consistently. Paye and Dayo are young, but Lewis, Banogu, and Turay haven't lived up. Plus we miss Autry. Hard for Buckner not to get double and triple teamed.

We know the teams that have succeeded with this broad philosophy. Dungy's Bucs, Lovie's Bears, even the post-season runs of the Giants, etc. They had players all over for sure, but specifically they had some motherfuckers on the D-line.

Do we need that level of personnel in order for the system to work? I don't know. Are there examples out there?

[Puck]

I deleted my message because ONLY one wanted Frank Fired

Give it up Chopped. Aint happing nor should it

You don't agree with him. WE GET IT. but he is the coach. He's not getting fired. He's not resigning, he's not giving up play calling.

BUT!!!!!!!! Get in the playoffs and I give the Colts as much chance as anyone to make it to the SB. There is not one team we can't beat.

I want the Titans in the first round.

Chopped....... Is there any team we can't beat in the AFC playoffs?

Hate to (not really)see you eat your words when they advance.

Just sayin.