Kenny Moore Signs 4-year Deal

[Luck4Reich]

Originally Posted by Pez

All respect, but it didnt take a decade. It took two years. Fuck polian and fuck grigson.

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We had two GMs before Ballard that didnt understand you win in the trenches. Wasted a lot of years with 2 great QBs... should have won a minimum of 4 SBs with Manning.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by Luck4Reich

We had two GMs before Ballard that didnt understand you win in the trenches. Wasted a lot of years with 2 great QBs... should have won a minimum of 4 SBs with Manning.

I dont understand that comment. When Polian got here there was T Glen. He found Diem And scott in the draft' Liljia off the KC pratice squad and pulled Saturday out of his ass.

He drafted linemen, Costanzo for one. He had some misses, like His successor. He drafted two potential HOF DE’s. He found WIL for dungy and two outstanding safties, Sansders and Bethea.

Polian did his job, coaches need to coach and players need to play. You want a legit complaint, Caldwells TO against the Jets

[Luck4Reich]

Originally Posted by JAFF

I dont understand that comment. When Polian got here there was T Glen. He found Diem And scott in the draft' Liljia off the KC pratice squad and pulled Saturday out of his ass.

He drafted linemen, Costanzo for one. He had some misses, like His successor. He drafted two potential HOF DE’s. He found WIL for dungy and two outstanding safties, Sansders and Bethea.

Polian did his job, coaches need to coach and players need to play. You want a legit complaint, Caldwells TO against the Jets

I'm not dismissing the great things Polian did. More could have been done on defense. I just wish we would have won more SBs.. was that all on Polian? Absolutely not. I just feel Ballard is placing more emphasis in that area so far. We will see if it ends in more SBs.

[HoosierinFL]

Polian's problem is that he didn't have a successor plan in place for the OL. In the early 2000s it was a great line. Tarik Glenn, Saturday, Scott, Diem, Lilja, DeMulling, all in their prime. By 2010, if not sooner, Lilja, Diem, and Saturday were getting old, Glenn, Scott, Peko and DeMulling were gone - and we didn't have guys waiting in the wings to take over. Hell, it wasn't until Castonzo was picked that they even found a replacement for Glenn. That was about a 4 year gap of failures.
Various starters on that line in the last 5-6 years of Polian's tenure:
Mike Pollack, Charlie Johnson (was good depth but never a true starter), Kyle Devan, Tony Ugoh, Jeff Linkenbach, Joe Reitz (another good depth but never a true starter).
And all these guys actually started. Look at the depth chart:
Seth Olsen, Mike Tepper, Quinn Ojinakka, Michael Toudouze, Jamey Richard, Jaimie Thomas, Jacques Mclendon.
I could go on, but if that isn't a depressing list of O-lineman, I don't know what is.

[Oldcolt]

I don't think Polian put enough emphasis in offensive lineman. Moore was a genius at getting guys to play well together but they just did not have the physicality that you can get with high draft choices. There is a reason everyone considered us soft (we were-if that even can apply to a football team) during Polian's reign and nobody but nobody would say that about this team now. We will see if this philosophy (spend high draft choices in building your offensive line) gets us more championships than the last one. I like it a lot better and have been wanting us to go down this route for decades.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by HoosierinFL

Polian's problem is that he didn't have a successor plan in place for the OL. In the early 2000s it was a great line. Tarik Glenn, Saturday, Scott, Diem, Lilja, DeMulling, all in their prime. By 2010, if not sooner, Lilja, Diem, and Saturday were getting old, Glenn, Scott, Peko and DeMulling were gone - and we didn't have guys waiting in the wings to take over. Hell, it wasn't until Castonzo was picked that they even found a replacement for Glenn. That was about a 4 year gap of failures.
Various starters on that line in the last 5-6 years of Polian's tenure:
Mike Pollack, Charlie Johnson (was good depth but never a true starter), Kyle Devan, Tony Ugoh, Jeff Linkenbach, Joe Reitz (another good depth but never a true starter).
And all these guys actually started. Look at the depth chart:
Seth Olsen, Mike Tepper, Quinn Ojinakka, Michael Toudouze, Jamey Richard, Jaimie Thomas, Jacques Mclendon.
I could go on, but if that isn't a depressing list of O-lineman, I don't know what is.

Polian believed in a good center and strong tackles. He treated the guards as recyclable and would use low round picks on them. He did not find a tackle to replace Glenn. Poor left tackle play was mitigated by Manning’s quick release. This was also a different time in oline play, teams could practice longer and work on technique. Today many oline attribute the decreased practice time from the CBA as the reason for decreased oline play across the league. Also may be why teams are spending higher picks for oline because they can’t develop them like they used to.

However, I think Polian’s olines were elevated by Manning. For years Manning was the highest hit QB in the league after release. I think it’s what led to his injury and decline. Too many high picks spent on skill positions. But Polian believed in a design of having a big three on offense and a dominant pass rusher on defense.

[Luck4Reich]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

Polian believed in a good center and strong tackles. He treated the guards as recyclable and would use low round picks on them. He did not find a tackle to replace Glenn. Poor left tackle play was mitigated by Manning’s quick release. This was also a different time in oline play, teams could practice longer and work on technique. Today many oline attribute the decreased practice time from the CBA as the reason for decreased oline play across the league. Also may be why teams are spending higher picks for oline because they can’t develop them like they used to.

However, I think Polian’s olines were elevated by Manning. For years Manning was the highest hit QB in the league after release. I think it’s what led to his injury and decline. Too many high picks spent on skill positions. But Polian believed in a design of having a big three on offense and a dominant pass rusher on defense.

Great point. People forget that Peyton got rid of the ball fast and his command of the playcalling made the olines look a lot better than they actually were.

[YDFL Commish]

Let us not forget who gradually got more control within the Colts organization after the 2006 Championship.

I believe that had more to do with the poor drafting than any other factor.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

Polian believed in a good center and strong tackles. He treated the guards as recyclable and would use low round picks on them. He did not find a tackle to replace Glenn. Poor left tackle play was mitigated by Manning’s quick release. This was also a different time in oline play, teams could practice longer and work on technique. Today many oline attribute the decreased practice time from the CBA as the reason for decreased oline play across the league. Also may be why teams are spending higher picks for oline because they can’t develop them like they used to.

However, I think Polian’s olines were elevated by Manning. For years Manning was the highest hit QB in the league after release. I think it’s what led to his injury and decline. Too many high picks spent on skill positions. But Polian believed in a design of having a big three on offense and a dominant pass rusher on defense.

Yeah he did. He drafted Costanzo. He also drafted Charlie Johnson, who played for the Colts and then they lost him in free agency, cap problems.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnCh23.htm


Part of it was the cap, part of it was Howard Mudd. He could work with guys like Llija and ________ and make them searvicable. But he drafted Jake Scott and we lost him to free agency. Polian was working with a tighter cap and he made his own problems when he hit on so many players.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/draft.htm


And remember, all that winning kept putting the Colts at the back end of the draft year after year. He hit on a bunch of late round guys who played long careers. Go look at the list. He had guys who were lost to free agency who played a long time. If there was a "failure", they should have let some guys go sooner than later, and kept the young guys.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by JAFF

Yeah he did. He drafted Costanzo. He also drafted Charlie Johnson, who played for the Colts and then they lost him in free agency, cap problems.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnCh23.htm


Part of it was the cap, part of it was Howard Mudd. He could work with guys like Llija and ________ and make them searvicable. But he drafted Jake Scott and we lost him to free agency. Polian was working with a tighter cap and he made his own problems when he hit on so many players.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/draft.htm


And remember, all that winning kept putting the Colts at the back end of the draft year after year. He hit on a bunch of late round guys who played long careers. Go look at the list. He had guys who were lost to free agency who played a long time. If there was a "failure", they should have let some guys go sooner than later, and kept the young guys.

Castonzo was drafted by his son and they were on their way out because they couldn’t fill those talent holes that they used to. Also Castonzo was just ok early in his career, not exactly a pass blocking prodigy. I think he was a poor fit for that system. Johnson was serviceable, and really did little once he moved on. Remember Ugoh beat him out initially for the job, Ugoh actually looked pretty good very early on then declined rapidly. Johnson benefited from Manning’s play, and was really on the field because he was the only one healthy.

As for the other stuff, doesn’t really change anything I said.