2023 Draft QBs

[Chromeburn]

So I decided to separate this post out and make some more comments and expansive eval as I've looked at them more.

This is what I've seen and read from other evaluators on the 1st round QBs.

Bryce Young
Good: Best skills and intangibles of the group. Can read defenses. Great improviser when plays break down, good enough arm with nice touch. Good poise in the pocket and can navigate around it using windows formed by the rush. Is the same whether under pressure or with a clean pocket. Would be the undisputed number 1 pick if not for...

Bad: Under 6ft. Rumors are he is 5'10 and 180-190lbs after a Bama measurement day. That's like a small nickel corner. Won't know until the combine. But that is really small for a QB. Wilson and Murray are over 200 lbs. He doesn't have Murray's speed and athleticism. Teams will worry about his ability to take hits in the NFL, but it also affects his vision. Grossman once said he doesn't throw the outlet bc he couldn't see him, and he was 6'1. Wilson is notorious for not throwing the outlet passes bc he can't see it. Tua just admitted his vision is restricted and it affects his game, he is 6ft and some change. So it will be a factor teams consider.


CJ Stroud
Good: Probably the best accuracy of the group. Great long ball. Good size and a strong arm that can make all the throws. Pocket passer with the athleticism to scramble, but stays in the pocket almost to a fault. Known as a tremendous leader in the locker room.

Bad: Is surrounded by 1st round receivers and linemen. Has a clean pocket almost every game, that will not be the case in the NFL. Is not as creative in off-script plays, has shown some potential but you would like to see more. He has a reputation for not doing well under pressure, and in the NFL you are always under pressure. The few games when he was under pressure things did not go very well. Has an awful completion percentage when under pressure. In his playoff game he showed a lot of his critics that he could do those things.


Will Levis
Good: Big, highly athletic QB with a cannon for an arm and the ability to run. Has shown great touch on throws over defenders. Can easily make all the throws on a pro field. Plays in a pro-style offense and is tabbed as the most pro-ready QB. Did not have much talent around him this year and was played hurt most of the year. The offense did not seem to play to his strengths.

Bad: His mechanics could use some work and rumors his progressions are slow. Had a bad stat year, much better in 2021. Had to play hero ball a lot, is that because of a lack of talent around him? His touch is inconsistent, some times has too much juice on his throws. He needs to work on his passing more.


Anthony Richardson
Good: The biggest traits QB in the draft. Highest ceiling, the most athleticism, very strong arm. Shows wow moments of improv when plays break down. Exciting and creative passer who can throw to any point on the field. His accuracy should be better because his receivers dropped a LOT of passes that were catchable. Enormous potential.

Bad: Limited college sample size. Very Raw player still. Did not have a great cast around him so hard to know exactly how good he is. Will likely have to sit the first year. Is a team willing to wait and develop him?

[Chromeburn]

Anthony Richardson

With the influx of so many successful toolsy QBs in recent years, teams are having to re-evaluate how they look at quarterbacks. With the success of Mahomes, Allen, Hurt, and Jackson; teams are looking for the next big lottery ticket and Richardson is a huge lottery ticket.

Richardson is a one-year starter for Florida and only 20 years old. 53% completion with 17 TDS and 9 ints. Comparisons have been made to Cam Newton, although Richardson is a better athlete, he is not Cam Newton. Newton was much more advanced than Richardson was when he came out. I will say he throws with better touch than Cam did coming out. Cam came out a bit later though, he had two years at Florida, a year at junior college, then he went to Auburn and blew up. He had almost two more years to develop than Richardson.

So with mediocre stats why is Richardson being talked about? Most will think it is his combine performance and athleticism, which is some of it. He scores a perfect 10 on the RAS, he set all the records for QB performance at the combine. His arm strength will likely be top five in the NFL and like a pro golfer with a natural swing he had a natural throwing motion despite his lower half being out of sync with his arm. So he has the size and tools to play the QB position, but what about the mental part?

First I will say Richardson ran pro-style offense. This isn't some gimmicky RPO offense with inflated stats like say Malick Willis ran. These are pro concepts. The problem is Florida did not have a QB coach and they had a former oline coach calling the plays. Not what I would call the ideal setup for a raw QB needing help developing. I’ll start with…

Games
Richardson vs UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_RO6xkaR2U

This game received some hype as a game exposing Richardson. I noticed that Kentucky is running a lot of inverted zones and they seemed to confuse Richardson. AR will see a lot of zone and disguised zone coverages in the future. Zone rushing, zone backfields. Because of his running ability teams probably will not have defenders run man and turn their back on such a dangerous QB in the open field.

Back to the game, UK was switching between cover-2 and inverted zones or inverted zone robber, AR seemed confused by them. Below you can see that there was some miscommunication as the receiver wants to run deep and AR is throwing short, also he expected the corner to drop deep but instead he is going to cover the flat in the inverted zone. This INT made AR question what he was seeing the rest of the day and be very hesitant.

https://i.ibb.co/CwJyWMh/Richardson-INT.jpg (https://ibb.co/hgXNCZD)

Richardson vs Tenn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOi4foYTeNk
Richardson had some struggles in this game at first. Tennessee threw some inverted zones at him and he panicked and started running when he first saw him. However, he then settled down and the next time he saw that inverted zone he made the correct read and threw a completion. He was able to isolate his guy within the confusing zone.

https://i.ibb.co/gzb9N3T/ar-acc6.jpg (https://ibb.co/m6rTkGq)

This tells me that he gets what he is looking at on the sideline and is able to make adjustments in game. He was growing and wasn’t making the same mistake over and over. This is a very good sign.

Richardson vs FSU
I would post my thoughts on this but I think this post sums it up nicely.

https://twitter.com/fb_filmanalysis/status/1642615493134794752?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

Accuracy
Richardson throws a lot of highballs. Which usually indicates that there is an issue with his feet. His arm and feet seem out of synch and his arm is so strong it seems to work against his feet. He often takes too many steps and is not efficient with his feet. Richardson did get better as the year went on. Early on his throws were one speed and he was throwing fastballs to everyone everywhere. But by the second half of the season he was throwing with more touch and layering balls into different areas of the field. Throwing to points where only the receiver could get them.

Another thing I noticed. Florida receivers drop a lot of balls, and I mean throws they should have caught. They also seem to end up in the same area quite a bit. This is either poor scheme or they are not running the right routes. I mean WTF are they doing here, two quick outs in the same throwing lane.

https://i.ibb.co/jGYxKt6/ar-acc5.jpg (https://ibb.co/S0g1TSs)

Their best receiver was a transfer from Arizona St. Three drops stuck out to me this game: 0:50, 1:32, and 2:00. Keep this in mind; if Richardson had just two more completions per game, he would have ended the year with a 61% completion rate.
However, you should not forget that he was also really inaccurate at times. Yes, his receivers dropped a lot of balls, but he also had some really bad throws as well. He will need to fix this at the next level, in both throwing from the pocket and on the run.

https://i.ibb.co/QkqPsDX/ar-acc.jpg (https://ibb.co/Lrqx4Nv)

Awareness
These are all the intangibles that make up a QB. Pass rush feel, using your eyes, maneuvering within the pocket, etc.
Richardson uses his eyes very well, and was able to look off defenders or lead them with his eyes to help his receivers get open. Remember, he does and will face a lot of zone defenses. This is a big skill to have.

AR has a pretty good feel for the pass rush and is able to navigate within the pocket fairly well. Although sometimes I think he takes too many steps and sometimes he will push himself back into danger when he should just settle into where he is. This can develop over time, so I would say this is a developing skill. He is comfortable going through progressions and I have seen him get up to four if he has the time to do so. I think this will get better with more experience.

I would say as a pocket passer his biggest hurdle will be settling his feet down and making sure his throwing motion is correct. That should be priority number one in his development.

Sum Up
So why is Richardson being considered top ten? He has athleticism you only see at the position every 5-10 years. He has a top-tier arm that allows him to push the ball anywhere on the football field, he can make every throw, he has demonstrated the ability to adapt and learn from game situations, read coverage, use his eyes to lead defenders, throw with anticipation, layer the ball to all three levels, Good (not great) pocket presence, and make improv plays.
Richardson's biggest issues are a lack of experience, mechanics not aligning between his feet and arm creating inaccuracy, and a lack of consistency. Consistency is his biggest enemy right now and will be in the foreseeable future. For every wow throw, there is another that is equally as bad. He shows flashes and then he has just as many lows. Honestly, its what you expect from a raw first-year starter.

Final Conclusion
AR is a lottery ticket. Yeah, he could bust, but would you rather shoot for the moon or keep it kinda safe? Playing in the AFC the next decade is going to be tough, you have Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Watson, and Lawrence. You either need a scary defense or a damn good QB to compete with that lot. This is where interviews and personality come in. Does he have the work ethic to reach his potential? Josh Allen did, but Jamarcus Russell did not. If he does reach his potential, whooo boy you hit the lottery. Steichen has said he wants a QB that is going to work and is obsessed with football. He will be going off the interviews they do with him. What he determines, we will find out in a few weeks.

Why pick him? Before Jalen Hurts, I would have seen Richardson as a guy who would be a wasted pick. I did not think Hurts would become anything, he just couldn’t get his passing together. But Steichen made him into a good QB. With the success of Allen and now Hurts, project QBs are not as big a longshot as they once were. I also think we have a great coach to help with that QB. So that said, why not try for the guy with the highest upside? Go big or go home.

*I'd like to include more graphics but there is a limit of four per post

[Chromeburn]

Will Levis

Levis is a difficult evaluation. Not many QBs can say their situation might get better as they go to the pro's. I think that is the case with both Levis and AR.
Levis had a better 2021 than 2022. He had a young team around him this season, freshmen receivers and very young linemen. He also was dealing with three injuries including a turf toe which hurt his scrambling and perhaps his throwing mechanics. People have suggested his age is a detriment compared to a 21 Stroud and a 21 AR, but the age isn’t something I’m worried about, he is 23 when he will be drafted its still ok.

Lets take a look at Levis because there is a good chance he could be the QB chosen soon. Levis started at Penn St and he was more the gimmicky running QB there, he did not win the starting job. He finished his degree and decided to go to Kentucky for grad school and to start. People ask why he didn’t start at Penn St because the starter isn’t great, and I don’t know. But I will say it isn’t always about who is the best QB, sometimes its about other things, internal politics, boosters. There can be other reasons. Levis graduates from Penn St in two years with a degree in finance and near 4.0. He decides to transfer to UK for grad school and playing time.

Before going to UK, Levis took the opportunity to go up to Canada and work with the biometrics team up there. He worked on his throwing motion and specifically using his hips when throwing. I think it made a noticeable difference because he now has a whip like motion from his hips when throwing and it definitely affected the speed of his release and power.

Levis gets to Kentucky and Liam Coen is the OC there, the WR coach from the Rams. He has a pro-style system that comes from the McVey coaching tree. He has pro prospects protecting him on the line and several receivers who will be drafted. Levis completed 66.0 percent of his passes that season for 2,827 yards, 24 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 13 games; he rushed for 376 rushing yards and a team-high nine touchdowns. He played a key role in Kentucky’s fourth 10-win season in program history. They win 10 games go to a pro game, are one of the best offenses in the SEC, Levis is a first round pick and the first QB taken if he goes pro. Instead he decides to come back for another year even though he could be one of the top QB’s drafted in 2022.

Coen goes back to the Rams for 2022, but at UK the Wildcats hire Rich Scangarello from the 49’ers. The terminology mainly stays the same but the offense is a different pro-style offense with different base packages. More emphasis on TE’s and and RB’s. Levis has to learn his third offense in three years, while still maintaining a 4.0 in grad school. Uk also has a rebuilt oline and freshmen receivers. Things don’t go well. Levis is constantly under pressure, he gets hurt with a turf toe, shoulder and finger injuries. He can’t practice very well, he has trouble planting his foot and being explosive. He also has some mechanics issues called pigeon toeing where he doesn’t point his foot at the target. Fans will remember this from the Wentz days. Although some of this could be due to his turf toe. The season ends up being a disappointment, Levis graduates and enters the draft at 23 years old.

Levis opted out of his bowl game (and UK didn’t even score in it) and went to work with one of the best QB coaches around. People criticized him for not improving much. But at the combine Levis did look noticeably improved especially throwing to his left which he struggled with during the year. I think he can improve his mechanics with work.

What he does well

Levis got a 93% reportedly on the S2, he is smart with a relentless work ethic reflected in his grades and learning three different pro-style systems. He has a big powerful arm with a quick release. A top athlete he has the physical tools to be compared to Josh Allen. He would normally be the strongest armed QB but Richardson is in the draft and might be slightly stronger. Still he can make every throw on the field and will be able to throw the entire route tree. He also has such a quick release, it allows him to hold the ball a split second more to study the defense because the window for his throw stays open longer due to that arm strength. While so many college offenses rely on tempo and short play calls from sideline poster boards, Levis’ play calls in the huddle were 15-20 words, and he went to the line with three checks on every play. He can also run when necessary and had a high number of runs called for him with the Coen system, but is not as elusive as say a Richardson or Jackson. He reminds me a bit of Luck in his running. He is not afraid of taking a hit and is a tough runner. He could learn to slide a bit more. His running attempts dropped this season because of his injuries.

There are a couple analytics why people like him

https://i.ibb.co/dDMxp7p/3-CD34502-1-A8-F-4-BD9-AE1-C-C021-D72-C0-C7-D.jpg (https://ibb.co/Pgj0WtW)

This is the % of passes deemed uncatchable when a QB is under pressure vs when a QB is kept clean. Top right is where you want to be. This is the premiere Levis stat and what sold a lot of teams. QBs are always under pressure and this shows how they perform when under that pressure.
https://i.ibb.co/K5HbptZ/704-E3616-1-A39-4770-8447-425-BC9-E90-CEF.jpg (https://ibb.co/cydkSW5)


According to his former OC Coen:

“Man, you could see the talent,” Coen said. “He killed it because he outworked everybody. He was named captain after eight days of practice, and he wasn’t even the starting quarterback yet. Blood, sweat, tears, he’s going to compete, study film. The kid works his tail off, and he’s an extremely intelligent person

“He works at everything he does,” Coen told The Athletic. “When you get him in the building in a competitive and supportive atmosphere and let him go, I think his best football is ahead of him.”

What he doesn’t do well

Levis had a penchant for turnovers last season, some said he was trying to compensate for the bad team around him and he was trying to do too much. He also has poor feel in the pocket. He seems the anti-Bryce Young at times. He took a lot of hits the past two seasons and I think this is partly where some of the Wentz comps come from. Although he did get blindsided a lot because his line just could not hold up. But his feel in the pocket doesn’t seem very good. Levis will have to speed up his read and release in the pros. Also when he takes off to run, too often he closes down the option to throw and doesn’t continue to look for receivers when on the move.

His Fit

There has been some debate on what team Levis would be a best fit. I personally think Steichen can build around anyone. He molds around his personnel. I would see a similar system that he utilized with Herbert. Play action with deep passes. Levis does a great job with dig routes and a short game, and some Colts podcasters have said he is a better fit with a New England or Vegas system. But I think you want to take advantage of his big arm and ability to run. Herbert had one of the best rookie seasons ever under Steichen. Something Levis mentioned in his Manning camp video, he talked about how Peyton did a great job with the play action and was such a master at it, he even watched an old video of Peyton teaching it when he was young. Which tells me he is a student of the game and other QBs.

More quotes from Coen:.

“If you can have a really good run game, limit the amount of straight dropbacks other than naturally third-down, gotta-have-it, red zone (situations),” Coen said. “There are going to be some straight dropback that you’re going to have to compete in an NFL game. But if you can limit the amount of straight dropback that he has, that’s for any young quarterback. You don’t want them standing in the pocket just seeing a million different things and having a bunch of guys breathing down your neck. That’s not an ideal place for a young quarterback, especially a young quarterback who doesn’t have a ton of true quarterback, pocket experience.
“But if you get him in an offense where you run the football, get him on the perimeter with bootlegs and nakeds and movement, then max-protect play-pass, he can make every throw. I’m not saying what they should do. That’s what I would do — try to limit the amount of dropbacks, (do some) quick-game, RPOs, get him on the run a little bit with lead blockers like they do with Josh Allen and Daniel Jones. Because he likes to get hit. He likes to run and play the game. He was just limited last year with an injury.
“The guy’s superpower is play-action, pushing the ball downfield, making every throw on the field. That’s his superpower. That’s what he’s great at.”

I think a deep passing play action game would work well with him. His ability to run and quick release would allow him to buy more time reading the defense in the backfield.

Final Conclusion

Levis is still a work in progress. A athletic QB who had a down injury plagued year. He has a high ceiling if he can address his mechanics issues. I think he has a sky high ceiling, its just been not as talked about because Richardson’s ceiling is higher. But there is a lot to like there. Experience with two pro-style systems. Calling from the huddle, making reads and adjusting. He is smart and maintained a 4.0 through school. But one of the things I like the most is his dedication to the game and his work ethic. That was always the thing that separated Peyton from everyone, it was his work ethic. I think Levis has a similar drive, and with so many guys seemingly playing video games or have other interests, its nice to know that this guy will be a dedicated pro from day one.

[Chromeburn]

I won't be able to breakdown Hooker in time. I don't think he is an option anyway. Hooker is 26, has a good accurate arm and can run. But he played in a weird 1 read offense and he rarely had to go to his second read. It makes it hard to evaluate him. Also at 26 you think a guy is a more finished product than one just starting to reach his potential. Kurt Warner does a decent breakdown of him and his offense but even he doesn't know what to make of him.

https://youtu.be/s75Zg19RCQE

[BCN#1]

Hendon Hooker

I´ll say it again... Who does not like having a reasonably priced Hooker on the team? :eek::D

[BCN#1]

Not getting a real warm fuzzy with any of them from this writie up but if it comes down to a choice between Richardson or Levis; Imma thinkin I would go with Richardson in this crap shoot.

[Lov2fish]

I have scoured the internet for as much video on these guys I could get. I have watched all of the so called experts break them down. The more I watch and find the more I would be happy to trade back to 8-10 and grab a CB and take McKee with our first pick in the 2nd. He has all the tools to be a good QB in the NFL. I compare him a lot to Carr with a better touch on the ball. Hooker would also be on my radar. His injury is the drawback. I know todays athletes heal quickly, physically, but how does he recover mentally. Young guy, NFL and recovering from injury, don't know. I know for me on a personal level as a two sport player in school, injuries were in my head longer than the healing process, and this was 35-40 years ago so a lot has changed.

[Dam8610]

The bad on Stroud are the common criticisms of him, but I honestly don't see any of it, outside of the first round receivers. He rarely had clean pockets (how is Paris Johnson, who constantly allowed pressure, considered a first round pick?), he constantly had to roll out and make plays while avoiding pressure (which I don't think counts as "under pressure", but deals with the pressure nonetheless), and completion percentage under pressure, I would like to know if that takes rollouts or escaping the pocket into account, because he's just as accurate on the run rolling left or right as he is in the pocket.

[ukcolt]

Stroud is the safest bet to be the best of this group in 3 years time.

Young will be the best of the bunch for the first 2 years, and will then wear down and prove not to be as effective.

Levis will struggle the first two years and barely see the field, but will then possibly shine and become an above average QB.

Richardson will play his rookie season and play like a rookie, with boom and bust plays all over the place. In 3 years time, could be one of the best players in the league, or potentially have been released entirely.

Hooker, will sit the first part of the season, and then show flashes at the end of the year and develop nicely in years 2 and 3 and be an above average starter.

The likes of Max Duggan, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Tanner McKee and Jaren Hall, will all end up as regular starting QB's at some point. This in my opinion is a pretty good draft class, with no sure fire stud. Aidan O'Connell will have the longest career, but mainly as a backup.

[albany ed]

They're all a crap shoot.

1. Young is too short and possibly fragile
2. Stroud in the film I've seen stares down receivers
3. Levis has questionable mechanics
4. Richardson not enough data to ascertain his skills

Any of these could be elite or a total bust. I wouldn't trade up for any of them. But then again, I'm just a fan.

A fan that will support the QB the team selects. I'm pretty sure they know more than me.

[YDFL Commish]

The way things are shaking out, I would not be surprised if Ballard were to trade back and take Hooker.

[YDFL Commish]

In case some didn't see this in another thread.

Apparently Levis is bombing at interviews:

https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/status/1640948542771544064

[CletusPyle]

In case some didn't see this in another thread.

Apparently Levis is bombing at interviews:

LOL.....this guy is a moron!

https://twitter.com/MatthewColler/status/1641228411803693057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1641228411803693057%7Ctwgr% 5Ed9ef67d1e58fb3deea7c11d75953ee2f00a49eb5%7Ctwcon %5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fque ry%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FMatthewColler2Fstatus 2F1641228411803693057widget%3DTweet

[Chromeburn]

In case some didn't see this in another thread.

Apparently Levis is bombing at interviews:

https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/status/1640948542771544064

Take everything you see and hear right now with a grain of salt.

[Discflinger]

Apparently there is “buzzz” that coats will take Levis with the 4th pick. Great April fool’s joke CB!

[Chromeburn]

Apparently there is “buzzz” that coats will take Levis with the 4th pick. Great April fool’s joke CB!

Or will they?…

[CletusPyle]

Saying Levis drops to the second round has to be the real April's fool joke!

[Ironshaft]

Alas, I am fully prepared for Levi to be the next rookie QB for the Colts.

If that happens, I just hope that our coaching staff can get him prepared to play well in the NFL.

[Dam8610]

Apparently there is “buzzz” that coats will take Levis with the 4th pick. Great April fool’s joke CB!

Addicted to mediocrity. (https://youtube.com/shorts/UseQYNx1YuI?feature=share)

[Colts And Orioles]

Alas, I am fully prepared for Levi to be the next rookie QB for the Colts.

If that happens, I just hope that our coaching staff can get him prepared to play well in the NFL.




o


I'm prepared for anything ...... even if they decide to wait another year to draft a highly-touted college quarterback, though that seems unlikely.

o

[Colts And Orioles]

Saying that Levis drops to the second round has to be the real April Fools joke !!!





o


The Curious Case of Sidd Finch

(By George Plimpton)

https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/10/15/curious-case-sidd-finch




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERq6XUlXUAEgwJf.jpg:small

o

[CletusPyle]

o


The Curious Case of Sidd Finch

(By George Plimpton)

https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/10/15/curious-case-sidd-finch




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERq6XUlXUAEgwJf.jpg:small

o

I forgot about George Plimpton....very entertaining article!:D

[Colts And Orioles]

I forgot about George Plimpton ...... very entertaining article !!! ) :D





o


He scared the daylights out of Earl Morrall and Milt Plum in Lions training camp in 1963.

o

[CletusPyle]

If this has been posted I apologize, I looked and didn't see it.:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2023-rumors-colts-to-work-out-top-qb-prospects-this-week-linked-to-one-in-particular/

If this is true, do you think all of these guys will really participate in this? And if they don't, wouldn't that tell the Colts a lot about who will still be on the table when the 4th pick comes around? Also, could this mean that they want one last look at these guys before they bring Lamar in to see if he is head and shoulders ahead of these guys? Just some thoughts, I would be surprised if all of these guys would come in to work out if they have already received assurances from another team that they are their guy!

[IndyNorm]

If this has been posted I apologize, I looked and didn't see it.:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2023-rumors-colts-to-work-out-top-qb-prospects-this-week-linked-to-one-in-particular/

If this is true, do you think all of these guys will really participate in this? And if they don't, wouldn't that tell the Colts a lot about who will still be on the table when the 4th pick comes around? Also, could this mean that they want one last look at these guys before they bring Lamar in to see if he is head and shoulders ahead of these guys? Just some thoughts, I would be surprised if all of these guys would come in to work out if they have already received assurances from another team that they are their guy!

Definitely interesting. It would make sense that either Stroud or Young would decline if Carolina and/or Houston has told them they're drafting them, but with 3 1/2 weeks left the draft I'm guessing both teams are still trying to keep things close to the vest.

[YDFL Commish]

It is officially lying season and the rumor out right now isd that the Titans want to move up to #3.

If so I'm assuming it would be for Will Anderson?

[njcoltfan]

It is officially lying season and the rumor out right now isd that the Titans want to move up to #3.

If so I'm assuming it would be for Will Anderson?
This is Tannehill's last season under contract with the Tits, so I would think if they try to jump the Colts, it would be for either Richardson or Levis.

[Brylok]

IDK if it's been brought up before, but should the Colts try to get Trey Lance from SF? They have Purdy and Darnold, so Lance is kinda in limbo right now. I'd have him before Levis or Richardson.

[YDFL Commish]

IDK if it's been brought up before, but should the Colts try to get Trey Lance from SF? They have Purdy and Darnold, so Lance is kinda in limbo right now. I'd have him before Levis or Richardson.

NO!

[Brylok]

NO!

...okay

[ChaosTheory]

IDK if it's been brought up before, but should the Colts try to get Trey Lance from SF? They have Purdy and Darnold, so Lance is kinda in limbo right now. I'd have him before Levis or Richardson.

https://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/why-trey-lance-move-hasnt-worked-out-for-49ers/

Quick article I just read about him. With Purdy's injury, he'll get a final shot to justify the three 1st's and a 3rd they spent on him.

[Brylok]

https://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/why-trey-lance-move-hasnt-worked-out-for-49ers/

Quick article I just read about him. With Purdy's injury, he'll get a final shot to justify the three 1st's and a 3rd they spent on him.

Three firsts and a third. Holey mackerel

[Dam8610]

Any S2 Cognition Test news besides "Bryce Young scored high"?

[ChaosTheory]

If this was posted somewhere already, my bad, but I missed these. I came across some more film study videos on this QB class similar to the JT O'Sullivan vids myself and others have referenced.

These, however, are presented by former QB Josh McCown who is, more importantly, the current QB coach for the Panthers who have since bought the #1 pick.

I haven't watched them yet, but I'm very intrigued by what he has to say about these kids given his and the Panthers' position. These are from January, before the Richardson hype train, so I don't think he's included unless I missed it. Also before Reich I believe.

Will Levis:
https://youtu.be/RXvUle76DZc

CJ Stroud:
https://youtu.be/xleNH2o9VfM

Bryce Young:
https://youtu.be/6ntaSrHk34g

[Chromeburn]

Any S2 Cognition Test news besides "Bryce Young scored high"?

Levis was around a 93 according to an Albert Breer Tweet. One of the highest or second highest in the class. Young aced it, other QBs that have are Allen, Fields and Burrow.

[Dam8610]

Levis was around a 93 according to an Albert Breer Tweet. One of the highest or second highest in the class. Young aced it, other QBs that have are Allen, Fields and Burrow.

Curious as to Stroud's score, but I will say that's a point in Levis's favor if true. He certainly has the processing ability to change his mechanics if that's true, the question would be his willingness.

[Chromeburn]

Curious as to Stroud's score, but I will say that's a point in Levis's favor if true. He certainly has the processing ability to change his mechanics if that's true, the question would be his willingness.

I haven't seen anything on Stroud or Richardson yet.

[Chromeburn]

Well that’s a slam on Stroud

https://twitter.com/johnhcrumpler/status/1645873059331489794?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

[IndyNorm]

Well that’s a slam on Stroud

https://twitter.com/johnhcrumpler/status/1645873059331489794?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

Not that it means much, but the latest PFF mock draft has Stroud slipping all the way to 6th. It has Richardson 1st, Young 2nd, us trading up to 3 and taking Levis, and Stroud falling to 6th where Tenn trades up for him.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-mock-draft-panthers-anthony-richardson-cj-stroud-slides

While if Stroud does slip I would hope that we take him, it would be fun to watch Dam have an epic meltdown if we pick Levis over him.

[Chromeburn]

Not that it means much, but the latest PFF mock draft has Stroud slipping all the way to 6th. It has Richardson 1st, Young 2nd, us trading up to 3 and taking Levis, and Stroud falling to 6th where Tenn trades up for him.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-mock-draft-panthers-anthony-richardson-cj-stroud-slides

While if Stroud does slip I would hope that we take him, it would be fun to watch Dam have an epic meltdown if we pick Levis over him.

If Carolina goes Young, things might get crazy. There seems to be bad blood between Stroud’s agent and Houston. And everyone has talked about the Colts and Carolina but there hasn’t been much said about Houston.

[Puck]

If Carolina goes Young, things might get crazy. There seems to be bad blood between Stroud’s agent and Houston. And everyone has talked about the Colts and Carolina but there hasn’t been much said about Houston.

Pretty sure Young and Stroud have the same agent

[Chromeburn]

Pretty sure Young and Stroud have the same agent

I think Young signed with CAA. Could be wrong though.

Stroud signed with David Mulugheta who also represents Watson. He used to be with Athletes First.

[Chromeburn]

I haven't seen anything on Stroud or Richardson yet.

Update on S2 scores. Young, Levis and Richardson all scored above 90%.

Young and Levis apparently have the same score at 93. So Young is actually tied for the highest.

https://twitter.com/zachhicks2/status/1646359518266155008?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

[Lov2fish]

Update on S2 scores. Young, Levis and Richardson all scored above 90%.

Young and Levis apparently have the same score at 93. So Young is actually tied for the highest.

https://twitter.com/zachhicks2/status/1646359518266155008?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

I have seen a few places (Twitter) that Stroud did not do well at all on the S2 This would explain a lot in his lower completion percentage when being pressured. He doesn't process it fast enough. Just spitball'n and sure Dam will figure out someway to say those NFL guys have no clue what they are talking about.

[YDFL Commish]

I have seen a few places (Twitter) that Stroud did not do well at all on the S2 This would explain a lot in his lower completion percentage when being pressured. He doesn't process it fast enough. Just spitball'n and sure Dam will figure out someway to say those NFL guys have no clue what they are talking about.

Apparently they don't. Dammy claims that Stroud had terrible LT play last season, but yet Paris Johnson is largely expected to be the 1st OT off the board?

[ChaosTheory]

Interesting week for Stroud. He's the frontrunner for #1 and then out of nowhere he's not coachable and can't process.

Absolutely no telling how this plays out. There's no runaway leader so it's going to come down to the stuff we can't know (e.g. interviews).

[Ironshaft]

Interesting week for Stroud. He's the frontrunner for #1 and then out of nowhere he's not coachable and can't process.

Absolutely no telling how this plays out. There's no runaway leader so it's going to come down to the stuff we can't know (e.g. interviews).
At this point, I know two things:

A. Everyone, and I mean everyone, is throwing as many smoke bombs as they can to try and obscure what they really want out of the draft.

B. It will not shock me to see any of those 4 QBs end up going in any of the spots QB1 through QB4 off the board.

I would be suprised to see Levis off the board #1 but that is it. Not shocked, just surprised. For all we know, Reich is in love with Levis.

Seeing any of the other 3 off the board at #1 and #2? Ehhh, par for the course.

[Dam8610]

I have seen a few places (Twitter) that Stroud did not do well at all on the S2 This would explain a lot in his lower completion percentage when being pressured. He doesn't process it fast enough. Just spitball'n and sure Dam will figure out someway to say those NFL guys have no clue what they are talking about.

Got an actual tweet, or are you blowing smoke here?

Apparently they don't. Dammy claims that Stroud had terrible LT play last season, but yet Paris Johnson is largely expected to be the 1st OT off the board?

You have Skoronski as a Guard and Broderick Jones as non-existent? He's 21 and has rare athleticism for his size, that's why Paris Johnson is getting drafted high. You can't teach the tools he has. We saw Bernhard Raimann in his 3rd season of football at any level go from bad to above average because of similar tools, and he was a 25 year old rookie. Paris Johnson's not getting drafted that high on his tape, as Stroud did face a ton of blindside pressure.

Interesting week for Stroud. He's the frontrunner for #1 and then out of nowhere he's not coachable and can't process.

Absolutely no telling how this plays out. There's no runaway leader so it's going to come down to the stuff we can't know (e.g. interviews).

All of the recent leaks about Stroud seem like some team is trying to get him to fall.

All of the recent leaks about Levis seem geared toward some team eventually justifying their pick.

It does seem like Stroud dropping to 4 is possible now. That's a positive change for the Colts.

[JAFF]

Got an actual tweet, or are you blowing smoke here?



You have Skoronski as a Guard and Broderick Jones as non-existent? He's 21 and has rare athleticism for his size, that's why Paris Johnson is getting drafted high. You can't teach the tools he has. We saw Bernhard Raimann in his 3rd season of football at any level go from bad to above average because of similar tools, and he was a 25 year old rookie. Paris Johnson's not getting drafted that high on his tape, as Stroud did face a ton of blindside pressure.



All of the recent leaks about Stroud seem like some team is trying to get him to fall.

All of the recent leaks about Levis seem geared toward some team eventually justifying their pick.

It does seem like Stroud dropping to 4 is possible now. That's a positive change for the Colts.

And professional coaches and scouts will be fooled by “gossip”?

[Dam8610]

And professional coaches and scouts will be fooled by “gossip”?

If it never worked, teams wouldn't bother doing it. The misinformation and smokescreens have to work on some level, otherwise they wouldn't happen.

One famous example of misinformation working in a team's favor was Antonio Gates going to the Chargers. Gates worked out for all 32 teams, but only the Chargers knew he was injured while doing the workout. That was why they were able to acquire him as a UDFA.

[CletusPyle]

If it never worked, teams wouldn't bother doing it. The misinformation and smokescreens have to work on some level, otherwise they wouldn't happen.

One famous example of misinformation working in a team's favor was Antonio Gates going to the Chargers. Gates worked out for all 32 teams, but only the Chargers knew he was injured while doing the workout. That was why they were able to acquire him as a UDFA.

I think there is some truth to your comment, if it never worked teams wouldn't do it. The pressure to make the right decision is so intense that if any doubt can be created it could cause people to second guess themselves.

One of these guys, maybe even two, are going to be a star in the league for many years, they all have the physical skills but all of them have a lot to learn and all of them need to have great players around them to be successful. Matthew Stafford is a good example, great QB for years on a team that lacked talent, then he goes to the Rams and wins a SB in his first year!

I know Stafford had Calvin Johnson in Detroit, but overall the team lacked the talent in other key areas and it prevented a great QB from reaching his full potential.

[Lov2fish]

Got an actual tweet, or are you blowing smoke here?

Dude, go to Twitter and see Stroud trending, or hit the search function. Be warned, they are gonna strip the shine off your new fixation!

[Dam8610]

Dude, go to Twitter and see Stroud trending, or hit the search function. Be warned, they are gonna strip the shine off your new fixation!

If Stroud scored low, which all we'll ever have to judge it on are unofficial reports, that doesn't match his tape. Will Levis scoring a 93 doesn't match his tape, either, nor does Richardson scoring in the 90s. Bryce Young scoring a 98 matches his tape. If he was 6'3" 220 he'd be considered the best QB prospect since Luck.

[Lov2fish]

If Stroud scored low, which all we'll ever have to judge it on are unofficial reports, that doesn't match his tape. Will Levis scoring a 93 doesn't match his tape, either, nor does Richardson scoring in the 90s. Bryce Young scoring a 98 matches his tape. If he was 6'3" 220 he'd be considered the best QB prospect since Luck.

If he was 6'3" and 220 I would be all about trading up to 1.

[Chromeburn]

Interesting week for Stroud. He's the frontrunner for #1 and then out of nowhere he's not coachable and can't process.

Absolutely no telling how this plays out. There's no runaway leader so it's going to come down to the stuff we can't know (e.g. interviews).

Vegas has Young going first now. Rumors Houston will go defense. Stroud in for a top 30 with the colts. Never know how the draft is going to go. Had guys arguing with me two weeks ago that Stroud and Young were going 1-2 and the Colts were stupid to even look at them.

I’m starting to think the Colts want a running QB though. I think it will come down to a decision b/w Levis and Richardson. I think it was always those two, why Ballard was nonchalant about moving up.

[Dam8610]

Vegas has Young going first now. Rumors Houston will go defense. Stroud in for a top 30 with the colts. Never know how the draft is going to go. Had guys arguing with me two weeks ago that Stroud and Young were going 1-2 and the Colts were stupid to even look at them.

I’m starting to think the Colts want a running QB though. I think it will come down to a decision b/w Levis and Richardson. I think it was always those two, why Ballard was nonchalant about moving up.


I think they had resolved themselves to be okay with Levis or Richardson. It would be rather shocking to see them take either of the low floor high ceiling guys (Richardson, Levis) over one of the high floor high ceiling guys (Stroud, Young).

[Butter]

One famous example of misinformation working in a team's favor was Antonio Gates going to the Chargers. Gates worked out for all 32 teams, but only the Chargers knew he was injured while doing the workout. That was why they were able to acquire him as a UDFA.

That is not the same at all and not comparable to rumors driving decisions. Hell, that is not even misinformation, it is a lack of information on the other 31 teams.

[Chromeburn]

I think they had resolved themselves to be okay with Levis or Richardson. It would be rather shocking to see them take either of the low floor high ceiling guys (Richardson, Levis) over one of the high floor high ceiling guys (Stroud, Young).

I think they believe in Steichen’s ability to develop. I wonder if Stroud would be open to running more in an RPO roll. Steichen wants those explosive plays with multiple running threats bringing that safety down then throwing deep on single high coverage.

[Dam8610]

That is not the same at all and not comparable to rumors driving decisions. Hell, that is not even misinformation, it is a lack of information on the other 31 teams.

The misinformation was that Gates was healthy at the pro day, which caused no one to draft him. There were teams considering drafting him that year.

I think they believe in Steichen’s ability to develop. I wonder if Stroud would be open to running more in an RPO roll. Steichen wants those explosive plays with multiple running threats bringing that safety down then throwing deep on single high coverage.

Stroud used his legs when he had to and put up 41 points on a team that averaged 10.9 points allowed in its other 14 games, and put his team in position to win the game 44-42 had the kicker not shanked the field goal attempt into the Atlantic Ocean. On the final drive to get them in FG range he had 2 or 3 crucial 1st down converting runs. It's not a thing he's done often because why would you when your WRs are Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Jaxson Smith-Njigba, Marvin Harrison Jr., and Emeka Egbuka?

[IndyNorm]

If Stroud scored low, which all we'll ever have to judge it on are unofficial reports, that doesn't match his tape. Will Levis scoring a 93 doesn't match his tape, either, nor does Richardson scoring in the 90s. Bryce Young scoring a 98 matches his tape. If he was 6'3" 220 he'd be considered the best QB prospect since Luck.

Agreed. If there's a test that shows Levis is better than Stroud at anything then it's obviously total BS and should be discarded from the player evaluations.

[Dam8610]

Agreed. If there's a test that shows Levis is better than Stroud at anything then it's obviously total BS and should be discarded from the player evaluations.

I didn't say anything remotely close to that, I was comparing the data we have on scores to how the QB in question played on tape. Are you really going to try to argue that Will Levis with his 26 turnovers and a less than 2:1 TD-INT ratio in the last 2 seasons was a better decision maker based solely on film than the CJ Stroud, who torched the #1 defense in college football for 41 points and had a 7:1 TD-INT ratio over the last 2 seasons? You can, I guess, it's just a really baseless argument.

[Chromeburn]

The misinformation was that Gates was healthy at the pro day, which caused no one to draft him. There were teams considering drafting him that year.



Stroud used his legs when he had to and put up 41 points on a team that averaged 10.9 points allowed in its other 14 games, and put his team in position to win the game 44-42 had the kicker not shanked the field goal attempt into the Atlantic Ocean. On the final drive to get them in FG range he had 2 or 3 crucial 1st down converting runs. It's not a thing he's done often because why would you when your WRs are Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Jaxson Smith-Njigba, Marvin Harrison Jr., and Emeka Egbuka?

Yes, I watched the championship game.

But he likes to stay in the pocket. Would he be open to running more in designed plays? Would he like to play in that system? They are probably finding that out now on his visit.

Incidentally, Lance Zierling has some connections to Houston, he got both their first round picks correct last year. He says they are split between Anderson and Stroud. That Anderson has a perfect score for them. It will likely come down to ownership who has the say on a QB or not.

[IndyNorm]

I didn't say anything remotely close to that, I was comparing the data we have on scores to how the QB in question played on tape. Are you really going to try to argue that Will Levis with his 26 turnovers and a less than 2:1 TD-INT ratio in the last 2 seasons was a better decision maker based solely on film than the CJ Stroud, who torched the #1 defense in college football for 41 points and had a 7:1 TD-INT ratio over the last 2 seasons? You can, I guess, it's just a really baseless argument.

Why are your panties all in a bunch? I agreed with you.

[Dam8610]

Why are your panties all in a punch? I agreed with you.

Your message came off as very facetious (I may have read it incorrectly) and said a thing I don't even agree with. Your claim, as I read it, was essentially that Levis can't be better at anything than Stroud. Levis certainly has the stronger arm of the two. In the context of only referring to decision making, I can see how that would be a non-facetious agreement.

[CletusPyle]

It will be interesting to see how well Stroud plays behind a bottom 5 offensive line in Houston...certainly won't be what he is use to at Ohio State!

[Dam8610]

It will be interesting to see how well Stroud plays behind a bottom 5 offensive line in Houston...certainly won't be what he is use to at Ohio State!

They seem to be set on passing on him. Hopefully they maintain that resolve.

[Dewey 5]

Yes, I watched the championship game.

But he likes to stay in the pocket. Would he be open to running more in designed plays? Would he like to play in that system? They are probably finding that out now on his visit.

Incidentally, Lance Zierling has some connections to Houston, he got both their first round picks correct last year. He says they are split between Anderson and Stroud. That Anderson has a perfect score for them. It will likely come down to ownership who has the say on a QB or not.

Texans should take Anderson. He is the best football player in this draft & they will easily be in position next year for either Caleb Williams or Drake Maye & both those guys are way, way better than any qb in this draft.

[Racehorse]

Texans should take Anderson. He is the best football player in this draft & they will easily be in position next year for either Caleb Williams or Drake Maye & both those guys are way, way better than any qb in this draft.

This is why I hope the Colts get a shot at Anderson.

[CletusPyle]

They seem to be set on passing on him. Hopefully they maintain that resolve.

Yes, I have seen those rumors...I don't buy it, I think they will take Stroud or Young, whichever one the Panthers pass on. Now I am seeing rumors that the Lions are going to trade up to #3 and take Richardson, leaving the Colts to take Levis. It would be the first time the first 4 picks are all QBs?

[ukcolt]

Anderson is not the best player after the QB's in my opinion, that's either Carter or Tyree Wilson, in terms of who is going to be taken with the 3rd pick. The best player in this draft is likely to be Bijan Robinson the RB from Texas, but the chances of him being taken that high are very slim.

[Dam8610]

Texans should take Anderson. He is the best football player in this draft & they will easily be in position next year for either Caleb Williams or Drake Maye & both those guys are way, way better than any qb in this draft.

That's what's almost always said about the next QB draft class. It's certainly what was said about this year's QB draft class last year.

[Chromeburn]

The Manning’s are doing a four episode show for ESPN on the four QB prospects this year.

https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2023/04/exclusively-on-espn2-and-espn-on-the-clock-featuring-top-nfl-quarterback-prospects-mannings-archie-peyton-eli-premieres-monday-april-10/

If you miss an episode, you can catch it on ESPN+. Will Levis will be tonight Monday the 17th and Anthony Richardson will be next Monday.

[Chromeburn]

That's what's almost always said about the next QB draft class. It's certainly what was said about this year's QB draft class last year.

And they were right.

Last years class was crap. This one is better. Next years top two prospects are better than this years. Plus there will be a host of potential QBs that could have a good year and move into that top tier or be first round picks.

[apballin]

Another thing that hasn’t been touched on… Stroud didn’t call his own plays. Can’t look to the sidelines to get the play in the NFL. These dudes are all flawed

[Chromeburn]

Another thing that hasn’t been touched on… Stroud didn’t call his own plays. Can’t look to the sidelines to get the play in the NFL. These dudes are all flawed

Levis called plays from the huddle. And speaking of Levis new rumor is Houston will now choose between Levis and Anderson. Stroud is out.

https://youtu.be/iP-v5TSTEAU

[CletusPyle]

The first hour of this draft is going to be must watch TV...I'm hearing the Lions are not all in for Goff and they are eyeing that third pick!:eek::D

After listening to that entire McAfee video I am convinced that it is probably the Cardinals stirring the Stroud soup hoping to make their #3 pick more valuable!

[JAFF]

Another thing that hasn’t been touched on… Stroud didn’t call his own plays. Can’t look to the sidelines to get the play in the NFL. These dudes are all flawed

Didnt the Colts former HC get hired due to his play calling ability? Doesnt the next play come to an nfl quarterback by radio?

[Dam8610]

And they were right.

Last years class was crap. This one is better. Next years top two prospects are better than this years. Plus there will be a host of potential QBs that could have a good year and move into that top tier or be first round picks.

Last year they were right, sure. I think Young and Stroud at least lived up to the hype, but they're doing it again this year, and I don't necessarily buy next year's class being so good compared to this one that it's like last year where it's worth waiting another year.

Levis called plays from the huddle. And speaking of Levis new rumor is Houston will now choose between Levis and Anderson. Stroud is out.

https://youtu.be/iP-v5TSTEAU

I saw a mock draft that a Texans fan described as their nightmare in the comments. In it, the Texans drafted Will Anderson at 2 and Will Levis at 12, while the Colts grabbed CJ Stroud at 4. I'm desperately hoping for that Texans fan's nightmare to become reality.

[Lov2fish]

Peyton Manning says Will Levis is genetically designed to be an NFL QB. Sorry, Dammy, your observation does not get more clout than Peyton.

[Dam8610]

Peyton Manning says Will Levis is genetically designed to be an NFL QB. Sorry, Dammy, your observation does not get more clout than Peyton.

I'm sure he had something nice to say about all 4 QBs.

[Chromeburn]

Last year they were right, sure. I think Young and Stroud at least lived up to the hype, but they're doing it again this year, and I don't necessarily buy next year's class being so good compared to this one that it's like last year where it's worth waiting another year.

I saw a mock draft that a Texans fan described as their nightmare in the comments. In it, the Texans drafted Will Anderson at 2 and Will Levis at 12, while the Colts grabbed CJ Stroud at 4. I'm desperately hoping for that Texans fan's nightmare to become reality.

The jump in quality from this year to next is not as dramatic as last year to this year. But it should be a good and deep class with the top candidates at the very least equal to this year's candidates. That said, waiting for another year rarely works out how the team wants it to. If you have an opportunity you should probably take it.

There is a lot of dis-info going on right now. Reminds me of the Herbert/Tua draft. I don't really believe any of it. A couple more weeks we will see.

[JAFF]

I'm sure he had something nice to say about all 4 QBs.

I would love it if some one slipped Peyton truth serum, and he lead with, “that dumb mofo couldnt spell cat if you spotted hi a C and an A”

[apballin]

Didnt the Colts former HC get hired due to his play calling ability? Doesnt the next play come to an nfl quarterback by radio?

Yes …. But he’s inexperienced at calling plays like that and radio goes off at 15 seconds on the play clock so he isn’t gonna have the luxury of letting the defense setup and then looking to Steichen to see what to do

[YDFL Commish]

Didnt the Colts former HC get hired due to his play calling ability? Doesnt the next play come to an nfl quarterback by radio?

Reich never called plays before he got to Indy. Steichen has.

[Dam8610]

Now apparently the Panthers are settled on Young, the Texans can't find a trade partner for the #2 pick, and the Colts may have their pick of Stroud, Richardson, and Levis at 4? This is lining up too perfectly for the Colts. How is it going to get screwed up?

[ChaosTheory]

Now apparently the Panthers are settled on Young, the Texans can't find a trade partner for the #2 pick, and the Colts may have their pick of Stroud, Richardson, and Levis at 4? This is lining up too perfectly for the Colts. How is it going to get screwed up?

Local guys down here mostly seem to think HOU doesn't want Stroud. Enough that I think I buy that. I've heard a few guys float the idea that they're willing to trade, but I hadn't heard that nobody wants it.

It's all just more questions. Stroud is getting absolutely raked lately between the bad testing, flaking out, and the red flags about system/coachability. If HOU doesn't think he's worth #2 and nobody is willing to trade up to get him, who says the Colts would want him at #4?

I'm at the point that I'm not even sure we take a QB.

[Dam8610]

Local guys down here mostly seem to think HOU doesn't want Stroud. Enough that I think I buy that. I've heard a few guys float the idea that they're willing to trade, but I hadn't heard that nobody wants it.

It's all just more questions. Stroud is getting absolutely raked lately between the bad testing, flaking out, and the red flags about system/coachability. If HOU doesn't think he's worth #2 and nobody is willing to trade up to get him, who says the Colts would want him at #4?

I'm at the point that I'm not even sure we take a QB.

Ballard is doing his job well, then.

Who knows, maybe all the dirt is coming from the Colts? It's what I would do, since I want him as the Colts QB.

[apballin]

We gotta take a QB….

I’d be surprised if Stroud makes it to 4…

Even more surprised when they still take Richardson over him

[JAFF]

Now apparently the Panthers are settled on Young, the Texans can't find a trade partner for the #2 pick, and the Colts may have their pick of Stroud, Richardson, and Levis at 4? This is lining up too perfectly for the Colts. How is it going to get screwed up?

The Colts hire you as GM…………….

[Colts And Orioles]

The Colts hire you as GM ......





o


I'll take the job of GM of the Jaguars ...... my first order of business will be to trade Trevor Lawrence to the Colts for Sam Ehlinger.

o

[IndyNorm]

o


I'll take the job of GM of the Jaguars ...... my first order of business will be to trade Trevor Lawrence to the Colts for Sam Ehlinger.

o

"What makes you think the Colts would trade their backup QB for that god awful bust?" - Dam.

[IndyNorm]

I saw a mock draft that a Texans fan described as their nightmare in the comments. In it, the Texans drafted Will Anderson at 2 and Will Levis at 12, while the Colts grabbed CJ Stroud at 4. I'm desperately hoping for that Texans fan's nightmare to become reality.

While I agree that would work out well for us, that's far from a nightmare for the Texans as they'd get probably the best player in the draft at a premium position and one of the top 4 rated QBs with a very high ceiling.

[omahacolt]

Yes, I have seen those rumors...I don't buy it, I think they will take Stroud or Young, whichever one the Panthers pass on. Now I am seeing rumors that the Lions are going to trade up to #3 and take Richardson, leaving the Colts to take Levis. It would be the first time the first 4 picks are all QBs?

thats not happening

[omahacolt]

Now apparently the Panthers are settled on Young, the Texans can't find a trade partner for the #2 pick, and the Colts may have their pick of Stroud, Richardson, and Levis at 4? This is lining up too perfectly for the Colts. How is it going to get screwed up?

by the colts taking stroud

[Racehorse]

by the colts taking stroud

I heard on Nashville sports talk radio that there are three huge red flags with stroud.
1. Possibly uncoachable. On the sidelines, he looks bored.
2. S2 scores were low.
3. Supposedly committed to attend Manning Passing Academy, and then blew them off.

FWIW

[rm1369]

I heard on Nashville sports talk radio that there are three huge red flags with stroud.
1. Possibly uncoachable. On the sidelines, he looks bored.
2. S2 scores were low.
3. Supposedly committed to attend Manning Passing Academy, and then blew them off.

FWIW

Stroud was my top choice early but if the S2 score part is true, I’m on the AR bandwagon. Will be good with Levis as well.

The Manning camp deal seems overblown from other info I’ve seen.

[Dam8610]

"What makes you think the Colts would trade their backup QB for that god awful bust?" - Dam.

Because of all the draft capital you could get trading him off to someone else who would vastly overpay for him.

by the colts taking stroud

Whichever QB the Colts decide to pick (or maybe not a QB?) they've done far more due diligence than us, so it's worth giving them a season or two on the field before deciding whether the pick they make is bad.

I heard on Nashville sports talk radio that there are three huge red flags with stroud.
1. Possibly uncoachable. On the sidelines, he looks bored.
2. S2 scores were low.
3. Supposedly committed to attend Manning Passing Academy, and then blew them off.

FWIW

1) Doesn't match tape or interviews
2) Doesn't match tape and no one has actually put a number on his score to my knowledge
3) Who cares what he did as an immature high schooler?

[Racehorse]

Because of all the draft capital you could get trading him off to someone else who would vastly overpay for him.



Whichever QB the Colts decide to pick (or maybe not a QB?) they've done far more due diligence than us, so it's worth giving them a season or two on the field before deciding whether the pick they make is bad.



1) Doesn't match tape or interviews
2) Doesn't match tape and no one has actually put a number on his score to my knowledge
3) Who cares what he did as an immature high schooler?

Do you ever even consider that you might be wrong? About anything?

[Racehorse]

Dude scored an 18

[Dam8610]

Do you ever even consider that you might be wrong? About anything?

Lol as if anyone here does that. This is a football message board, expressing opinions generates discussion. It would be really boring if everyone agreed all the time.

Dude scored an 18

Is "dude" CJ Stroud? Because if that's the case I'd like to see some evidence of it, even on the level we have evidence of the other scores. Even then, that sounds a lot like Shaquille Leonard running a 4.7 40, it just doesn't match the tape. Someone that processes information that poorly would not have been able to make the anticipation throws he made in every game. If you can't process information well, you won't be able to find open throwing windows before they come open.

[smitty46953]

According to S2, the 30-to-45 minute exercise is conducted on what The Athletic’s Matt Barrows in February described as a “specially designed gaming laptop and response pad that can record reactions in two milliseconds.” It measures how players process and make split-second decisions. “Anticipating, reading, reacting and adapting to the game are measurable skills,” the website offers.

Per the report, multiple sources around the league shared those scores for the two quarterbacks.

Furthermore, the article quotes one executive as saying Stroud's score raised a red flag about the quarterback.

“Stroud scored 18,” an executive said. “That is like red alert, red alert, you can’t take a guy like that. That is why I have Stroud as a bust. That in conjunction with the fact, name one Ohio State quarterback that’s ever done it in the league.”

As for the other top quarterbacks in this draft class, McGinn shared this.

Some other total scores in the class of quarterbacks this year were 96% for Fresno State’s Jake Haener, 93% for Kentucky’s Will Levis and Brigham Young’s Jaren Hall, 84% for Houston’s Clayton Tune, 79% for Florida’s Anthony Richardson and 46% for Tennessee’s Hendon Hooker.

While it is merely speculation at this moment as to a potential slide coming to Stroud, this could be the reason for the recent rumors that the Houston Texans are willing to trade out of the No.2 pick for any team wanting to make a deal.

https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/draft/could-reportedly-poor-test-score-be-behind-strouds-potential-fall


:cool: Little bit concerning ? :cool:

[rm1369]

Supposedly 80 and above is considered good. An 18 would take Stroud off my board in first two rounds. Hooker’s score is pretty disappointing as well. Article I read had a team exec quoted as saying a high score doesn’t guarantee success, but they’ve never seen someone with a low one succeed. It’s lying season, but considering what it’s intended to measure I can believe that statement. Levis or Richardson for me.

[Dam8610]

According to S2, the 30-to-45 minute exercise is conducted on what The Athletic’s Matt Barrows in February described as a “specially designed gaming laptop and response pad that can record reactions in two milliseconds.” It measures how players process and make split-second decisions. “Anticipating, reading, reacting and adapting to the game are measurable skills,” the website offers.

Per the report, multiple sources around the league shared those scores for the two quarterbacks.

Furthermore, the article quotes one executive as saying Stroud's score raised a red flag about the quarterback.

“Stroud scored 18,” an executive said. “That is like red alert, red alert, you can’t take a guy like that. That is why I have Stroud as a bust. That in conjunction with the fact, name one Ohio State quarterback that’s ever done it in the league.”

As for the other top quarterbacks in this draft class, McGinn shared this.

Some other total scores in the class of quarterbacks this year were 96% for Fresno State’s Jake Haener, 93% for Kentucky’s Will Levis and Brigham Young’s Jaren Hall, 84% for Houston’s Clayton Tune, 79% for Florida’s Anthony Richardson and 46% for Tennessee’s Hendon Hooker.

While it is merely speculation at this moment as to a potential slide coming to Stroud, this could be the reason for the recent rumors that the Houston Texans are willing to trade out of the No.2 pick for any team wanting to make a deal.

https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/draft/could-reportedly-poor-test-score-be-behind-strouds-potential-fall


:cool: Little bit concerning ? :cool:

Cause for concern? Sure. But tape is more important than anything else. If his tape looked like Trevor Lawrence's where he was missing gaping holes in zone coverage because he couldn't tell when his receiver was going to be in that hole, I'd say avoid drafting him. Instead, Stroud's tape is littered with things like his beautifully placed and timed seam ball to the RB against Cover 2 vs. Georgia where Stroud hit his RB in stride for an easy 37 yard TD. That isn't something a player with below average processing ability could do.

[Colts And Orioles]

Do you ever even consider that you might be wrong ??? About anything ???












LOL, as if anyone here does that.





o


I've done it, often.

I was wrong when I said that Case Keenum would have a longer and more prosperous career than Andrew Luck would.

I was wrong when I said that I believed that Carson Wentz would be a good, long-term solution at quarterback for the Colts.

I was wrong when I said that Jim Caldwell was an average head coach prior to the 2010 season ...... after seeing him defend himself in regard to his horrible time-out calls for the second time in one season (including a playoff game), I came to the conclusion that he was indeed a bad head coach.

o

[ChaosTheory]

Supposedly 80 and above is considered good. An 18 would take Stroud off my board in first two rounds. Hooker’s score is pretty disappointing as well. Article I read had a team exec quoted as saying a high score doesn’t guarantee success, but they’ve never seen someone with a low one succeed. It’s lying season, but considering what it’s intended to measure I can believe that statement. Levis or Richardson for me.

That would be my expectation, similar to throwing against air. Looking good doesn't mean you'll look good in a game... but looking bad on air probably means you'll look bad in a game.

This entire offseason is new for me regarding QB's. Between having Manning/Luck for 21 seasons and then choosing vets the past several years... I've never felt the urge to study draft QB's like this.

So I don't know much about the S2 other than it tests processing and that it replaced the Wonderlic which tested recall. I'm curious to dig around and see how these scores have translated in the past.

But first reaction is... 18? Out of 100? Some of these guys got mid-90's and you got an 18? What is that about? OSU system?

[Oldcolt]

It tells me he looks great when he has all day to process. That isn't going to happen in the NFL. He has to make quick decisions. If this is true, pass on him.

[Dam8610]

o


I've done it, often.

I was wrong when I said that Case Keenum would have a longer and more prosperous career than Andrew Luck would.

I was wrong when I said that I believed that Carson Wentz would be a good, long-term solution at quarterback for the Colts.

I was wrong when I said that Jim Caldwell was an average head coach prior to the 2010 season ...... after seeing him defend himself in regard to his horrible time-out calls for the second time in one season (including a playoff game), I came to the conclusion that he was indeed a bad head coach.

o

Congratulations, that would make you the only one. Not sure I agree with your take on Caldwell, think you had it right the first time, average-above average head coach. Look at his record and how the Lions fell off after firing him.

[Dam8610]

It tells me he looks great when he has all day to process. That isn't going to happen in the NFL. He has to make quick decisions. If this is true, pass on him.

You have an odd definition of "all day". You should really watch the tape.

[Spike]

Cause for concern? Sure. But tape is more important than anything else. If his tape looked like Trevor Lawrence's where he was missing gaping holes in zone coverage because he couldn't tell when his receiver was going to be in that hole, I'd say avoid drafting him. Instead, Stroud's tape is littered with things like his beautifully placed and timed seam ball to the RB against Cover 2 vs. Georgia where Stroud hit his RB in stride for an easy 37 yard TD. That isn't something a player with below average processing ability could do.

You keep ripping on Lawrence, but there is not one NFL team who would take Stroud or your boy Mac Jones over him. There is not one QB in this draft anyone would take over Lawrence.

You keep defending Jones because he didn't have good coaching this past year, same could be said for Lawrence in his rookie year. Lawrence finally got a good HC and flourished in his 2nd year.

Time to bite the bullet dam.

[Lov2fish]

You keep ripping on Lawrence, but there is not one NFL team who would take Stroud or your boy Mac Jones over him. There is not one QB in this draft anyone would take over Lawrence.

You keep defending Jones because he didn't have good coaching this past year, same could be said for Lawrence in his rookie year. Lawrence finally got a good HC and flourished in his 2nd year.

Time to bite the bullet dam.

He will never admit anything. I have a better chance of hitting the Powerball 3 weeks in a row.

[IndyNorm]

Whichever QB the Colts decide to pick (or maybe not a QB?) they've done far more due diligence than us, so it's worth giving them a season or two on the field before deciding whether the pick they make is bad.



What's with the reasonable comment? Did you go back on your meds for a day?

[Dam8610]

You keep ripping on Lawrence, but there is not one NFL team who would take Stroud or your boy Mac Jones over him. There is not one QB in this draft anyone would take over Lawrence.

You keep defending Jones because he didn't have good coaching this past year, same could be said for Lawrence in his rookie year. Lawrence finally got a good HC and flourished in his 2nd year.

Time to bite the bullet dam.

Luck went in Lawrence's favor considerably last year, and yes, Pederson did well to create a lot of half field reads and easy concepts for Lawrence to execute. He still hasn't shown he can throw with anticipation or make a full field read, and he's been stuck at the same development since his freshman year in college. As I've said many times, the athleticism and arm strength will mask his deficiencies at times, but a smart talented defense will force him to stay in the pocket and make good reads and throws to beat them, and when they do that, he breaks down and his team loses.

I know who I'll be rooting for to succeed if Stroud is a Colt and Lawrence remains a Jaguar. Seems you and others here want Lawrence to succeed because of me, would you also want Stroud to fail if the Colts draft him?

[IndyNorm]

But first reaction is... 18? Out of 100? Some of these guys got mid-90's and you got an 18? What is that about? OSU system?

Maybe he was hungover or stoned when he took the it? Living in B1G country I've seen my fair share of OSU games over the past 2 years, and based on what I've seen I would have thought he would have at least done halfway decent on the test.

[Spike]

Luck went in Lawrence's favor considerably last year, and yes, Pederson did well to create a lot of half field reads and easy concepts for Lawrence to execute. He still hasn't shown he can throw with anticipation or make a full field read, and he's been stuck at the same development since his freshman year in college. As I've said many times, the athleticism and arm strength will mask his deficiencies at times, but a smart talented defense will force him to stay in the pocket and make good reads and throws to beat them, and when they do that, he breaks down and his team loses.

I know who I'll be rooting for to succeed if Stroud is a Colt and Lawrence remains a Jaguar. Seems you and others here want Lawrence to succeed because of me, would you also want Stroud to fail if the Colts draft him?

No, I'm not that guy. If the Colts get Stroud, I will be rooting for Stroud to succeed at a high level and beat Lawrence's ass. It's not about that. It's about admitting the truth and accepting the fact, nothing more.

[Dam8610]

What's with the reasonable comment? Did you go back on your meds for a day?

We all root for laundry, do we not? If they choose Levis, Richardson, or whoever, I want them to succeed. Obviously I'd prefer Stroud, IMO he's the best of the bunch. But above all I want the Colts to win.

[Dam8610]

But first reaction is... 18? Out of 100? Some of these guys got mid-90's and you got an 18? What is that about? OSU system?

Maybe he has test anxiety? Who knows, but that score does not match the tape, and in fact is the opposite of the tape.

[Dam8610]

No, I'm not that guy. If the Colts get Stroud, I will be rooting for Stroud to succeed at a high level and beat Lawrence's ass. It's not about that. It's about admitting the truth and accepting the fact, nothing more.

I admit the truth and accept the fact that Lawrence can not throw with anticipation or make a full field read. May he never learn those skills.

[IndyNorm]

We all root for laundry, do we not? If they choose Levis, Richardson, or whoever, I want them to succeed. Obviously I'd prefer Stroud, IMO he's the best of the bunch. But above all I want the Colts to win.

Another reasonable response. Looks like you finally took your pills today.

Edit: Never mind. Just saw your last 2 posts which popped up when I was typing this response.

[Chromeburn]

Lots of disinformation going on it seems. Particularly around Stroud. New S2 leak says he got an 18 on the test.

https://twitter.com/shanephallam/status/1649377768067457027?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

Don’t know if I buy this though. Doesn’t seem to match the other scores. Also the creator of the S2 test went on the Pff podcast and said all the numbers being leaked are wrong.

[ChaosTheory]

Maybe he was hungover or stoned when he took the it? Living in B1G country I've seen my fair share of OSU games over the past 2 years, and based on what I've seen I would have thought he would have at least done halfway decent on the test.

I know you're speculating/joking, but any explanation like that is obviously a bigger red flag that the shitty score itself. Of course I never heard about any character issues with the kid until this past week.

Maybe he has test anxiety? Who knows, but that score does not match the tape, and in fact is the opposite of the tape.

I tried to look up past and didn't find much, just some anecdotes. Even with those, what do we make of it? Like I read that Joe Burrow scored really high so this must have some merit to it, right? Then I read that Justin Fields scored as high as Burrow did and I think, "Oh, so this test doesn't mean shit."

[Racehorse]

I admit the truth and accept the fact that Lawrence can not throw with anticipation or make a full field read. May he never learn those skills.

You denied it when I said he scored an 18. Now you move the goalposts and explain it away. You’re insufferable. And his score says he might be borderline retarded.

[Dam8610]

Lots of disinformation going on it seems. Particularly around Stroud. New S2 leak says he got an 18 on the test.

https://twitter.com/shanephallam/status/1649377768067457027?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

Don’t know if I buy this though. Doesn’t seem to match the other scores. Also the creator of the S2 test went on the Pff podcast and said all the numbers being leaked are wrong.

Not surprised at all by that. It's lying season. Maybe that's coming from the Colts?

I tried to look up past and didn't find much, just some anecdotes. Even with those, what do we make of it? Like I read that Joe Burrow scored really high so this must have some merit to it, right? Then I read that Justin Fields scored as high as Burrow did and I think, "Oh, so this test doesn't mean shit."

Fields is a good passer, he did a lot of pro concepts at Ohio State (don't take my word for it, go watch JT O'Sullivan talk about the Ryan Day offense). I don't know that the test doesn't mean anything. I also don't know that a low score is some kiss of death for a QB. I just know that if S2 measures anticipation and processing speed, CJ Stroud scoring an 18 is the opposite of what I'd expect based on the tape.

[Dam8610]

You denied it when I said he scored an 18. Now you move the goalposts and explain it away. You’re insufferable. And his score says he might be borderline retarded.

I said I wanted to see some level of proof of it. That was provided. When I saw that, I said it doesn't make sense with the tape. I'm not trying to "explain it away", I'm saying his tape shows anticipation and excellent processing, which is the opposite of that score. The creator of the test said the leaked numbers are wrong, not me. So take that for what it's worth. All this stuff coming out about Stroud right at the end of draft season really seems like some team trying to get Stroud to fall.

[Chromeburn]

I heard on Nashville sports talk radio that there are three huge red flags with stroud.
1. Possibly uncoachable. On the sidelines, he looks bored.
2. S2 scores were low.
3. Supposedly committed to attend Manning Passing Academy, and then blew them off.

FWIW

So I've seen these rumors out there as well. Don't know about the uncoachable part, this would come from the OSU coaches and is probably kept within circles and scouts. As for looking bored... I don't know that's subjective. Is his body language bad? I noticed a scout mention it in the latest Colts draft video.

S2 score. I saw some actual scores posted online in one of my posts above, but don't know if they are accurate. The S2 guy went on PFF podcast and said all the leaked scores are incorrect.

The Manning Passing Academy thing would have been for last year as a counselor. From what I've read they asked him to come last minute and he already had a full schedule and had to refuse. Seems perfectly reasonable to me if it was a last minute ask.

[IndyNorm]

I know you're speculating/joking, but any explanation like that is obviously a bigger red flag that the shitty score itself. Of course I never heard about any character issues with the kid until this past week.


No doubt. It would be just as big of a red flag as the ones Jalen Carter has been flying since the national championship game. Like you said though, just a joke speculation on my part.

[ChaosTheory]

Not surprised at all by that. It's lying season. Maybe that's coming from the Colts?



Fields is a good passer, he did a lot of pro concepts at Ohio State (don't take my word for it, go watch JT O'Sullivan talk about the Ryan Day offense). I don't know that the test doesn't mean anything. I also don't know that a low score is some kiss of death for a QB. I just know that if S2 measures anticipation and processing speed, CJ Stroud scoring an 18 is the opposite of what I'd expect based on the tape.

Yeah, I think there's just not enough data on it yet. Also, these leaked scores could all be fucked up. Depending on the source, I've read that these reported scores are:



-The overall number grades out of 100 (which means he bombed).

or

-What percentile they scored in among other participants (18th percentile is still not good, but the actual scores could theoretically be way closer than the 75-point gap being reported).

or

-Only one score based on one of the nine sections of the test (so he could've bombed one particular section and excelled in others).

[Chromeburn]

So this came out a couple hours ago.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2023/04/21/s2-cognition-test-nfl-draft-founder-says-leaked-scores-grain-of-salt-bryce-young-cj-stroud

[Brylok]

Imagine thinking any of these guys are going to be as good as Trevor Lawrence...

Five and a half days to go. Calgon, take me away!

[Dam8610]

Imagine thinking any of these guys are going to be as good as Trevor Lawrence...

Five and a half days to go. Calgon, take me away!

Imagine thinking Trevor Lawrence is going to be better than all the QBs in this class...

[Racehorse]

Imagine thinking Trevor Lawrence is going to be better than all the QBs in this class...

I hope he isn't, but it isn't much of a stretch to imagine it being possible. He has the tools, and only being in Jacksonville could actually screw him up. Too bad they got rid of Meyer so quickly.

[Dam8610]

I hope he isn't, but it isn't much of a stretch to imagine it being possible. He has the tools, and only being in Jacksonville could actually screw him up. Too bad they got rid of Meyer so quickly.

He has the tools, but he hasn't learned any of the skills in 5 years. His passing ability today is similar to his passing ability as a Freshman at Clemson. The athleticism bails him out until he comes up against a team with an elite QB and a great defense. He may be able to win games without developing further, but he won't do much more than winning a weak division, if the division stays weak.

[YDFL Commish]

No matter the scores of the QB's in the S2 test, that has to be a very small component in the choice by any good GM.

I would favor traits in this order:


Leadership, Character and Coachability
Accuracy
Ability Under Pressure
Arm Strength
Athleticism
intangibles i.e. cognitive testing, speakability w/teammates and the media etc. etc. etc.

[YDFL Commish]

He has the tools, but he hasn't learned any of the skills in 5 years. His passing ability today is similar to his passing ability as a Freshman at Clemson. The athleticism bails him out until he comes up against a team with an elite QB and a great defense. He may be able to win games without developing further, but he won't do much more than winning a weak division, if the division stays weak.

Very few of these prospects were coached correctly in college, sans Luck.

Lawrence certainly wasn't coached well under Meyer, then he gets some real coaching and improves.

So let's look at PM's first 2 seasons. Great coaching and continuity within the coaching staff. He had a very difficult rookie year. I was extremely concerned until he brought the team back in the 4th qtr, against a quality Jets team for the victory. Peyton then breaks out in year 2.

So maybe the light goes on for Lawrence in year 3 and he has a breakout season with 2 years of actual good coaching.

If not, I'll agree with you that he will just be a run of the mill mediocre QB in the NFL.

[apballin]

If I’m the GM I’m taking Richardson

His speed has to be respected and creates openings all over the field, there’s no Dlineman in the AFC south that can run him down

He wants to be great and he lines up with Steichens “all ball” philosophy

He’s 20 years old so should easily be the qb for the next 10 years

Say whatever you want about the accuracy but he should be throwing to some big windows because of the fear of his legs

[Colts And Orioles]

No, I'm not that guy. If the Colts get Stroud, I will be rooting for Stroud to succeed at a high level and beat Lawrence's ass. It's not about that, it's about admitting the truth and accepting the fact, nothing more.





o


Dam says that I'm the only one here of that persuasion.

o

[CletusPyle]

If I’m the GM I’m taking Richardson

His speed has to be respected and creates openings all over the field, there’s no Dlineman in the AFC south that can run him down

He wants to be great and he lines up with Steichens “all ball” philosophy

He’s 20 years old so should easily be the qb for the next 10 years

Say whatever you want about the accuracy but he should be throwing to some big windows because of the fear of his legs

You make good points, I personally think Levis is a safer choice, but the potential upside of Richardson could have whoever passes on him kicking themselves in the balls for the next 10 years!:D

[Chromeburn]

One more thing about those S2 scores. Apparently they are from Bob McGinn who has an excellent reputation as a sports reporter and it was received from NFL personnel. If so, that score is really concerning. Something doesn’t add up. If that is the score teams received. Stroud may drop some.

[Chromeburn]

If I’m the GM I’m taking Richardson

His speed has to be respected and creates openings all over the field, there’s no Dlineman in the AFC south that can run him down

He wants to be great and he lines up with Steichens “all ball” philosophy

He’s 20 years old so should easily be the qb for the next 10 years

Say whatever you want about the accuracy but he should be throwing to some big windows because of the fear of his legs

If you look around the AFC and that QB gauntlet. You will need someone special just to get you through the playoffs.

[IndyNorm]

Very few of these prospects were coached correctly in college, sans Luck.

Lawrence certainly wasn't coached well under Meyer, then he gets some real coaching and improves.

So let's look at PM's first 2 seasons. Great coaching and continuity within the coaching staff. He had a very difficult rookie year. I was extremely concerned until he brought the team back in the 4th qtr, against a quality Jets team for the victory. Peyton then breaks out in year 2.

So maybe the light goes on for Lawrence in year 3 and he has a breakout season with 2 years of actual good coaching.

If not, I'll agree with you that he will just be a run of the mill mediocre QB in the NFL.

The thing is though the light has already gone on for Lawrence. Despite getting off to a rough start due to the hangover from the Meyer dumpster fire, he still threw for a 66% completion percentage, 4,100 yards, and a TD/Int ratio of 25/8. If you look at the 2nd half of the season (final 9 games) he threw for 70%, 2,300 yards, and 15/2.

Of course Dam's delusional ass is going to get on here and say all of that was pure luck, but anyone with any sense knows you can't luck your way into those good of numbers in the NFL.

[Brylok]

If I’m the GM I’m taking Richardson

You're fired.

[Chromeburn]

More elaboration on Stroud.

https://twitter.com/_mlfootball/status/1649506939791982595?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

[apballin]

One more thing about those S2 scores. Apparently they are from Bob McGinn who has an excellent reputation as a sports reporter and it was received from NFL personnel. If so, that score is really concerning. Something doesn’t add up. If that is the score teams received. Stroud may drop some.

Maybe he bombed it intentionally because he didn’t wanna go to the Texans or panthers?

Anyone thought of that?

I’m sure all these bullshit tests start to weigh on you as an individual

You’re drafting a football player not a doctor

[ChaosTheory]

More elaboration on Stroud.

https://twitter.com/_mlfootball/status/1649506939791982595?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

That's what RM and I were saying a few pages back. Good score doesn't mean great QB. But bad score means probably not a great QB. I wonder if this was the same quote RM was referencing.

So it is a percentile, not a score. Still a monster gap according to those quotes.

By the way, I assumed the S2 only started in the past couple of years after they ditched the Wonderlic. But they've been using it for seven years. Does anybody know if more past score have been posted?

I'd love to see the correlation.

[apballin]

Dams gonna love this…

Latest ESPN mock has Stroud falling to us at 4

[omahacolt]

Dams gonna love this…

Latest ESPN mock has Stroud falling to us at 4

dam will be insufferable

really i don't care. i just want a young qb. preference being richardson

[Dam8610]

Dams gonna love this…

Latest ESPN mock has Stroud falling to us at 4

Not really, I'd love it if the situation actually plays out.

[apballin]

Not really, I'd love it if the situation actually plays out.

I’d be alright with it, not to mention knowing the Texans passed on him should give him added motivation playing them twice a year

[Brylok]

really i don't care. i just want a young qb. preference being richardson

Oof. Why?

[YDFL Commish]

Oof. Why?

Yeah, anybody but Richardson.

[Chromeburn]

Maybe he bombed it intentionally because he didn’t wanna go to the Texans or panthers?

Anyone thought of that?

I’m sure all these bullshit tests start to weigh on you as an individual

You’re drafting a football player not a doctor

Saw this today.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/04/21/ohio-state-osu-quarterback-cj-stroud-struggles-cognitive-test-2023-nfl-draft-prospect-cte/70139209007/

“All the leaks that you’re seeing is one number," Ally said. "It is a mistake to value one number. We give 9 different cognitive tests. If you score in the 90th you could be in the 10th for object tracking which means you have tunnel vision.”

[Dam8610]

Yeah, anybody but Richardson.

The "anybody but"s are Levis and Hooker for me.

[apballin]

Better be one of the 4 chromeburn listed… my list stops there anything but the guys after the top 4

[Chromeburn]

That's what RM and I were saying a few pages back. Good score doesn't mean great QB. But bad score means probably not a great QB. I wonder if this was the same quote RM was referencing.

So it is a percentile, not a score. Still a monster gap according to those quotes.

By the way, I assumed the S2 only started in the past couple of years after they ditched the Wonderlic. But they've been using it for seven years. Does anybody know if more past score have been posted?

I'd love to see the correlation.

It really only started to see the spotlight because Brock Purdy came out of nowhere and people were asking how? Then someone pointed out his high S2 score. But you got the gist. 7 years of data. Been busts with high scores, but no successful low scores.

I still don’t know if the Stroud’s 18 is his total score or just one of his scores. I assume the teams have all this data so the leaks are interesting. Is someone trying to get him to drop? Or maybe a team saying hey we’re gonna pass on him for a reason.

[Lov2fish]

Imagine thinking Trevor Lawrence is going to be better than all the QBs in this class...

Given the allegedly top 4 in this years draft that is a real possibility. Your guy has the mental capacity of a potato apparently. Two of the other 3 leave a lot of room for improvement. If Young was 6'3" or 6'4" and 220-225 this would be a moot point for any conversation on who is the best QB in this draft.

[Dam8610]

Given the allegedly top 4 in this years draft that is a real possibility. Your guy has the mental capacity of a potato apparently. Two of the other 3 leave a lot of room for improvement. If Young was 6'3" or 6'4" and 220-225 this would be a moot point for any conversation on who is the best QB in this draft.

The test creator of S2 said the leaked scores are inaccurate, and the film shows CJ Stroud as very capable of processing quickly and reading defenses well. Film trumps all, the measurables are there to help interpret it, but the evaluation is done by watching the games. I don't know that I'd rank Young ahead of Stroud even if he were that height and weight, because there's evidence both ways. Watch Stroud vs. Georgia and Young vs. Texas and then tell me Young is the better QB. If you do, I know you're biased.

[apballin]

Stroud played in snoop dogs little league in California, just an interesting tidbit

[rm1369]

The test creator of S2 said the leaked scores are inaccurate, and the film shows CJ Stroud as very capable of processing quickly and reading defenses well. Film trumps all, the measurables are there to help interpret it, but the evaluation is done by watching the games. I don't know that I'd rank Young ahead of Stroud even if he were that height and weight, because there's evidence both ways. Watch Stroud vs. Georgia and Young vs. Texas and then tell me Young is the better QB. If you do, I know you're biased.

You make it sound as if the evaluation of game tape is easy and obvious. If that were the case busts wouldn’t be so common. Just because you see it doesn’t mean others do. If Stroud is even available for the Colts that means at least one pro GM didn’t see it as obviously as you apparently have.

[Dam8610]

You make it sound as if the evaluation of game tape is easy and obvious. If that were the case busts wouldn’t be so common. Just because you see it doesn’t mean others do. If Stroud is even available for the Colts that means at least one pro GM didn’t see it as obviously as you apparently have.

Far from it, evaluation of film is difficult. That's why 50% is a high hit rate in the NFL draft. Coming away from one draft with four plus starters or impact role players is a great draft, it's why Ballard is considered a great drafter, he's done that consistently. That's also why the combine and pro days exist, to give data to compare to the film. But the film is the deciding factor of any evaluation.

And of course not everyone is going to see it the same way. If you saw the big board of 10 different teams, you'd see no less than 4 different rankings of the QBs, and my money would be on more than that. Some teams have Richardson as the #1 QB, I'm sure. There's probably even someone who has Levis as the #1 QB.

[rm1369]

Far from it, evaluation of film is difficult. That's why 50% is a high hit rate in the NFL draft. Coming away from one draft with four plus starters or impact role players is a great draft, it's why Ballard is considered a great drafter, he's done that consistently. That's also why the combine and pro days exist, to give data to compare to the film. But the film is the deciding factor of any evaluation.

And of course not everyone is going to see it the same way. If you saw the big board of 10 different teams, you'd see no less than 4 different rankings of the QBs, and my money would be on more than that. Some teams have Richardson as the #1 QB, I'm sure. There's probably even someone who has Levis as the #1 QB.

Which would be one of the reasons people would use other tools like the S2 test. It is tough without having the historical data on the testing, but to me the idea behind the tests make sense. And it makes sense to me that a poor score should be a huge red flag. We don’t know for sure that the test is very predictive and we don’t know for sure Stroud scored poorly, but if he’s available to the Colts I think it’s likely due to the testing.

[YDFL Commish]

I can't remember where I read it, but in the article a scout said that Stroud's S2 test did match his tape.

So which do I believe the future HOF GM in Dammy or the scout?

[njcoltfan]

I can't remember where I read it, but in the article a scout said that Stroud's S2 test did match his tape.

So which do I believe the future HOF GM in Dammy or the scout?

With out a doubt, its our own Dammy !!!!

[IndyNorm]

With out a doubt, its our own Dammy !!!!

No doubt. If every team would just listen to Dam then they'd all undoubtedly win the Superbowl every year.

[IndyNorm]

Far from it, evaluation of film is difficult. That's why 50% is a high hit rate in the NFL draft. Coming away from one draft with four plus starters or impact role players is a great draft, it's why Ballard is considered a great drafter, he's done that consistently. That's also why the combine and pro days exist, to give data to compare to the film. But the film is the deciding factor of any evaluation.

And of course not everyone is going to see it the same way. If you saw the big board of 10 different teams, you'd see no less than 4 different rankings of the QBs, and my money would be on more than that. Some teams have Richardson as the #1 QB, I'm sure. There's probably even someone who has Levis as the #1 QB.

So are you saying that there's at least a 50% chance that you're wrong? If so then I think we need to screen shot and sticky this post!

[IndyNorm]

dam will be insufferable

really i don't care. i just want a young qb. preference being richardson

To be fair if we do end up with Stroud and he's half as good as Dam says he'll be then it'll probably be worth it.

[ChaosTheory]

If anybody didn't see it, here's the PFF interview with Brandon Ally (co-founder of S2). It's nearly 40 minutes and fleshes out the testing process and how it's utilized by teams as another scouting element (along with 40 times, film study, etc.). As he says, it's not the Holy Grail, but can help match players with teams that are looking for something specific.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C4JT7T4pdY


One interesting point is that there about 16 "outfits" at the combine testing these guys, not just S2.

[apballin]

Venturi was on JMV today and said Levis is his #2 QB behind Bryce Young…

Also said he told Ballard, Richardson is the kinda guy that makes you look like a genius or gets you fired.

Daniel Jeremiah was on later and said he’d love to see Richardson go to the Colts but he thinks it’s Levis

[JAFF]

Venturi was on JMV today and said Levis is his #2 QB behind Bryce Young…

Also said he told Ballard, Richardson is the kinda guy that makes you look like a genius or gets you fired.

Daniel Jeremiah was on later and said he’d love to see Richardson go to the Colts but he thinks it’s Levis

Richardson is so young, so raw. He has the physical tools, but how in the world can you predict his maturation in the next 4 years when he gets a contract with a greater financial value than 97% of the US population

[Racehorse]

Given the allegedly top 4 in this years draft that is a real possibility. Your guy has the mental capacity of a potato apparently. Two of the other 3 leave a lot of room for improvement. If Young was 6'3" or 6'4" and 220-225 this would be a moot point for any conversation on who is the best QB in this draft.

I heard today that there was a report that Stroud took the S2 multiple times and struggled each time. I think it was Tom Pellisario (sp?).

[IndyNorm]

Richardson is so young, so raw. He has the physical tools, but how in the world can you predict his maturation in the next 4 years when he gets a contract with a greater financial value than 97% of the US population

To be fair that's pretty much any of these guys except for maybe Hooker since he's no longer in his early 20s. The bigger concern for Richardson should be if he can greatly improve his accuracy and not if he's going to become a turd after he gets paid.

[Chromeburn]

Peter King’s mock is up. He also thinks Stroud might fall out of the top seven and might land with the Titans.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/24/fmia-peter-king-mock-draft-bryce-young-panthers/

Then there’s the quarterback mystery. A month ago, C.J. Stroud was the odds-on favorite to be the first pick in the draft. Today, it’s no lock he goes in the top seven, which seems (and is) insane. Will Levis was an afterthought in many draft rooms as this month dawned; now he might be the fourth overall pick. Eleven years after an accomplished 5-10 3/4 quarterback, Russell Wilson, was picked 75th overall, an accomplished quarterback half-an-inch shorter, Bryce Young, is projected to go first overall.

Make sure you watch the podcast on the page as well. King talks extensively about the Colts. He thinks Manning has bonded with Will Levis and Manning is in turn talking to Irsay. Irsay then is talking about him to Ballard. Says another prominent person in the building likes Richardson. Ultimately it will come down to Ballard and his decision. Says they haven’t had a easy time in the building and have been back and forth on all the QBs.

[Dam8610]

I know Will Levis gets the Josh Allen comps, but I'm starting to see how Anthony Richardson could take a Josh Allen like development path. Play him early, take the lumps, and hope he develops, because he does more things at a pro ready level than I originally thought.

[Chromeburn]

I know Will Levis gets the Josh Allen comps, but I'm starting to see how Anthony Richardson could take a Josh Allen like development path. Play him early, take the lumps, and hope he develops, because he does more things at a pro ready level than I originally thought.

He’s an intriguing prospect. Just inconsistent. But you see flashes and you think “wow, he could be really good with the right coaches and patience.”

[apballin]

Peter King’s mock is up. He also thinks Stroud might fall out of the top seven and might land with the Titans.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/24/fmia-peter-king-mock-draft-bryce-young-panthers/



Make sure you watch the podcast on the page as well. King talks extensively about the Colts. He thinks Manning has bonded with Will Levis and Manning is in turn talking to Irsay. Irsay then is talking about him to Ballard. Says another prominent person in the building likes Richardson. Ultimately it will come down to Ballard and his decision. Says they haven’t had a easy time in the building and have been back and forth on all the QBs.

We all love Peyton, but he’s not the GM. It’s not his call, you like him that much tell the broncos to draft him or the Titans fuck that

[apballin]

I know Will Levis gets the Josh Allen comps, but I'm starting to see how Anthony Richardson could take a Josh Allen like development path. Play him early, take the lumps, and hope he develops, because he does more things at a pro ready level than I originally thought.

His running ability has to be respected from the moment he steps on the field which in turn should free up passing lanes. He’s all ball like Steichen said, Levis has a degree in finance he screams Luck all over again the moment he gets fucked up his girlfriend will be in his ear telling him “you don’t need this shit”

[Chromeburn]

We all love Peyton, but he’s not the GM. It’s not his call, you like him that much tell the broncos to draft him or the Titans fuck that

King seemed to emphasize that it’s still Ballard’s call, but he runs a very democratic system. I bet the debates are lively in that draft room this week.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

He thinks Manning has bonded with Will Levis and Manning is in turn talking to Irsay. Irsay then is talking about him to Ballard. Says another prominent person in the building likes Richardson. Ultimately it will come down to Ballard and his decision. Says they haven’t had a easy time in the building and have been back and forth on all the QBs.

I bet the debates are lively in that draft room this week.



Breer wrote similar things in his column today.

Repeats that Irsay likes Levis due to Manning's opinion.

Traits-happy Ballard likes Richardson.

And Dodds is lobbying for Stroud due to thinking he will be the best fit in Steichen’s offense.

[Brylok]

Breer wrote similar things in his column today.

Repeats that Irsay likes Levis due to Manning's opinion.

Traits-happy Ballard likes Richardson.

And Dodds is lobbying for Stroud due to thinking he will be the best fit in Steichen’s offense.

Irsay and Ballard have been striking out in recent years. What does Steichen have to say? Or is Dodds speaking on his behalf?

I hope they don't make a mess of it...

[IndyNorm]

Irsay and Ballard have been striking out in recent years. What does Steichen have to say? Or is Dodds speaking on his behalf?

I hope they don't make a mess of it...

No doubt. If Stroud is the best fit for Steichen's system and he's there at 4 then just take him. End of story.

[ChaosTheory]

Irsay and Ballard have been striking out in recent years. What does Steichen have to say? Or is Dodds speaking on his behalf?

I hope they don't make a mess of it...

Yeah, he doesn't seem to give much away but I'm curious if it's three different directions among owner, GM, HC.

I read that Ballard really liked Josh Allen when he was a questionable guy. Wonder if he sees the same in Richardson.

[Dam8610]

Breer wrote similar things in his column today.

Repeats that Irsay likes Levis due to Manning's opinion.

Traits-happy Ballard likes Richardson.

And Dodds is lobbying for Stroud due to thinking he will be the best fit in Steichen’s offense.

Go Dodds!

[YDFL Commish]

Go Dodds!

Dodds is not going to have a lot of input into this decision. Breer doesn't know shit, and let's face it Levis will be the pick.

The bigger question is will you support the player or rag on him every time he makes a mistake?

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Well, I think that the story that Peter King and Breer is spreading is the narrative that the Colts want out there.

They don't want other teams to connect one specific name to them.

I'm sure the Colts would prefer that Houston and Arizona stay put and draft a non-QB and then the Colts could choose between the 3 QB's at 1.04.

[CletusPyle]

This draft is the most tightly controlled I can remember, I don't think anybody but the teams themselves really know what the first 4 picks will be....maybe Young is a lock at 1, but I am not convinced that that is even for sure!

[Dam8610]

Dodds is not going to have a lot of input into this decision. Breer doesn't know shit, and let's face it Levis will be the pick.

The bigger question is will you support the player or rag on him every time he makes a mistake?

I'll wait for draft day, because none of the "insiders" seem to know anything this year. The only thing I'm certain of at this point is my order of preference of the QBs, which is: Stroud, Young, Richardson, trade for another QB, trade down and draft DTR later, just about any other option the Colts could do to address the QB position, Levis

The bigger question is why would you ask me a question I answered several days ago? Again, we all root for laundry, I want the Colts to win no matter what. That said, am I going to be incredibly angry if CJ Stroud and Will Levis are both what I think they are, the Colts draft Levis, and we have to watch Stroud kick the Colts ass for the next 15 years? Of course.

[Dam8610]

# Team Player, Position, College
1 San Francisco 49ers Alex D. Smith qb, Utah
2 Miami Dolphins Ronnie Brown rb, Auburn
3 Cleveland Browns Braylon Edwards wr, Michigan
4 Chicago Bears Cedric Benson rb, Texas
5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Carnell Williams rb, Auburn
6 Tennessee Adam "Pacman" Jones cb, West Virginia
7 Minnesota Vikings Troy Williamson wr, South Carolina
8 Arizona Cardinals Antrel Rolle cb, Miami (FL)
9 Washington Redskins Carlos Rogers cb, Auburn
10 Detroit Lions Mike Williams WR, Southern California
11 Dallas Cowboys DeMarcus Ware de, Troy State
12 San Diego Chargers Shawne Merriman olb, Maryland
13 New Orleans Saints Jammal Brown ot, Oklahoma
14 Carolina Panthers Thomas Davis fs, Georgia
15 Kansas City Cheifs Derrick O. Johnson olb, Texas
16 Houston Texans Travis Johnson dt, Florida State
17 Cincinnati Bengals David Pollack de, Georgia
18 Minnesota Vikings Erasmus James de, Wisconsin
19 St. Louis Rams Alex Barron ot, Florida State
20 Dallas Cowboys Marcus Spears de, Louisiana State
21 Jacksonville Jaguars Matt Jones WR, Arkansas
22 Baltimore Ravens Mark Clayton WR, Oklahoma
23 Oakland Raiders Fabian Washington cb, Nebraska
24 Green Bay Packers Aaron Rodgers qb, California

Remember this when you think NFL GMs are infallible and can't possibly pick the wrong guy. 22 teams with 23 picks (Dallas had picks 11 and 20) passed on Aaron Rodgers. Most of those teams did so for a fringe starter or a bust.

[YDFL Commish]

# Team Player, Position, College
1 San Francisco 49ers Alex D. Smith qb, Utah
2 Miami Dolphins Ronnie Brown rb, Auburn
3 Cleveland Browns Braylon Edwards wr, Michigan
4 Chicago Bears Cedric Benson rb, Texas
5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Carnell Williams rb, Auburn
6 Tennessee Adam "Pacman" Jones cb, West Virginia
7 Minnesota Vikings Troy Williamson wr, South Carolina
8 Arizona Cardinals Antrel Rolle cb, Miami (FL)
9 Washington Redskins Carlos Rogers cb, Auburn
10 Detroit Lions Mike Williams WR, Southern California
11 Dallas Cowboys DeMarcus Ware de, Troy State
12 San Diego Chargers Shawne Merriman olb, Maryland
13 New Orleans Saints Jammal Brown ot, Oklahoma
14 Carolina Panthers Thomas Davis fs, Georgia
15 Kansas City Cheifs Derrick O. Johnson olb, Texas
16 Houston Texans Travis Johnson dt, Florida State
17 Cincinnati Bengals David Pollack de, Georgia
18 Minnesota Vikings Erasmus James de, Wisconsin
19 St. Louis Rams Alex Barron ot, Florida State
20 Dallas Cowboys Marcus Spears de, Louisiana State
21 Jacksonville Jaguars Matt Jones WR, Arkansas
22 Baltimore Ravens Mark Clayton WR, Oklahoma
23 Oakland Raiders Fabian Washington cb, Nebraska
24 Green Bay Packers Aaron Rodgers qb, California

Remember this when you think NFL GMs are infallible and can't possibly pick the wrong guy. 22 teams with 23 picks (Dallas had picks 11 and 20) passed on Aaron Rodgers. Most of those teams did so for a fringe starter or a bust.

Well, Demarcus Ware was probably the best pick of that draft. But you're right, with an aging Bledsoe at QB, you would think that rather than double dipping at DE the Cowboys should have taken Rodgers.

[rm1369]

Well, Demarcus Ware was probably the best pick of that draft. But you're right, with an aging Bledsoe at QB, you would think that rather than double dipping at DE the Cowboys should have taken Rodgers.

The crazy thing for me is seeing 3 RBs drafted top 5. Great indicator of how much the game has changed

[Dam8610]

Well, Demarcus Ware was probably the best pick of that draft. But you're right, with an aging Bledsoe at QB, you would think that rather than double dipping at DE the Cowboys should have taken Rodgers.

Rodgers is more valuable than Ware, but yes, I think if the Cowboys had it to do over they'd've gone Ware at 11 and Rodgers at 20.

[Dam8610]

The crazy thing for me is seeing 3 RBs drafted top 5. Great indicator of how much the game has changed

Positional value has permeated the league. Bijan Robinson is the best RB prospect since Saquon Barkley, and there's a chance he might not go in Round 1.

[YDFL Commish]

Positional value has permeated the league. Bijan Robinson is the best RB prospect since Saquon Barkley, and there's a chance he might not go in Round 1.

He will most definitely will go in round 1.

[ukcolt]

Ware or Merriman, clearly alongside Rodgers, but there wasn't a whole lot else in the 1st round of that draft that made a major dent on NFL annuls.

[YDFL Commish]

Apparently Levis can throw without his fingers on the laces.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/NIQi3hAQNPYx-rJy5QCcrpRfDU8=/0x0:5283x3263/920x613/filters:focal(2257x229:3101x1073):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/72214829/1443964597.0.jpg

[omahacolt]

everyone can throw without the laces

[YDFL Commish]

everyone can throw without the laces

But not all QB's do.

[Dam8610]

I didn't think I could not want Levis more, then I saw what his bicep tattoo says.

[Chromeburn]

Apparently Levis can throw without his fingers on the laces.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/NIQi3hAQNPYx-rJy5QCcrpRfDU8=/0x0:5283x3263/920x613/filters:focal(2257x229:3101x1073):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/72214829/1443964597.0.jpg

So does Richardson.

[Chromeburn]

Latest rumor per Albert breer

Irsay likes Levis with Manning endorsement
Ballard is intrigued by Richardson
Dodds like Stroud

Don’t know if I believe it. Colts are on lockdown.

[Brylok]

I didn't think I could not want Levis more, then I saw what his bicep tattoo says.

You didn't notice that until today?

[apballin]

I didn't think I could not want Levis more, then I saw what his bicep tattoo says.

I’m sure Reich is standing on tables screaming to draft this guy, it’ll be his Wentz do over.

[Dam8610]

You didn't notice that until today?

Didn't exactly seek out what it said, I thought it was dumb he had a bicep tattoo. I didn't know knowing what it was would make it worse.

I’m sure Reich is standing on tables screaming to draft this guy, it’ll be his Wentz do over.

Lol this was my first thought after reading it as well. He's SO Carson Wentz it's not even funny.

[YDFL Commish]

Didn't exactly seek out what it said, I thought it was dumb he had a bicep tattoo. I didn't know knowing what it was would make it worse.



Lol this was my first thought after reading it as well. He's SO Carson Wentz it's not even funny.

You can keep your personal religious beliefs to your self, this is not the forum for that.

Really? What would be an acceptable tat for you? As long as it's not offensive who gives a shit. The dude has every right to express himself.

[Discflinger]

Dude can have all the flair he wants!

Please; no one post a Rick Flair meme.

[CletusPyle]

How about a GIF?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HU7yHIK6Nc3WcE0/giphy.gif

[JAFF]

How about a GIF?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HU7yHIK6Nc3WcE0/giphy.gif

I made a noise like that, during a prostate exam. Probably made the same face

[Dam8610]

You can keep your personal religious beliefs to your self, this is not the forum for that.

Really? What would be an acceptable tat for you? As long as it's not offensive who gives a shit. The dude has every right to express himself.

When did I say anything about my religious beliefs? I don't believe I did. I do dislike that he has clearly marked himself as a devout Christian, primarily because it's yet another way that he's Carson Wentz 2.0.

[IndyNorm]

When did I say anything about my religious beliefs? I don't believe I did. I do dislike that he has clearly marked himself as a devout Christian, primarily because it's yet another way that he's Carson Wentz 2.0.

Did you even bother to look up what the verse is? It's: “Be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded." I'm certainly not one for religion (I had to Google this), but there are a hell of a lot worse things someone can have tattooed on themselves than that.

Have you not read any of Richardson's quotes? He's clearly a Christian as well. I wonder why that doesn't bother you.

[Spike]

When did I say anything about my religious beliefs? I don't believe I did. I do dislike that he has clearly marked himself as a devout Christian, primarily because it's yet another way that he's Carson Wentz 2.0.

Boy, this is one dumb ass statement.

[IndyNorm]

You can keep your personal religious beliefs to your self, this is not the forum for that.

Really? What would be an acceptable tat for you? As long as it's not offensive who gives a shit. The dude has every right to express himself.

That's just Dam being Dam. He's decided that he doesn't like Levis and is using anything and everything he can to justify this. Even if he has to make something up and do some mental gymnastics to get there. Of course if Levis ends up being good Dam will still say he's a bust and is just getting lucky, etc.

[Dam8610]

Wow, clearly touched some nerves here. Like I said, it's another similarity to Wentz, of which there are already far too many. I did look it up, I knew what it said, it's not the worst thing one could pick from the Bible, he could've picked something about incest or stoning people for wearing the wrong thing, both of which would've been way worse. I don't particularly care what any of their religious beliefs or lack thereof are, I just don't want Carson Wentz 2.0.

[ChaosTheory]

Brylok, quick! Before we have this holy war, how much time is left?

[Dam8610]

Brylok, quick! Before we have this holy war, how much time is left?

About 31 hours

[Oldcolt]

I have never met any of these guys and the Colts have spent hours, if not days talking directly to them and everyone who knows them. I have absolute confidence that they know a shit ton more than me about all of the quarterbacks. I'll get behind whomever they pick because it will be a more informed pick than anyone here can make. Fun to argue about though. What I do not want is for someone to jump us at 3 and take a QB. This is such a huge pick for this team that giving up value so that we get our pick of, hopefully, the three remaining dudes is what I really want. Whomever we took under those circumstances I would be happy.

[Brylok]

Brylok, quick! Before we have this holy war, how much time is left?

Too much

[Chromeburn]

Rumors now swirling Levis goes 2nd to Houston. (Shrug)

[Dam8610]

Rumors now swirling Levis goes 2nd to Houston. (Shrug)

That would be amazing.

[ChaosTheory]

Sam Darnold was the #1 QB and Baker Mayfield was the #4 QB the whole time... until the day of the draft.

[apballin]

Rumors now swirling Levis goes 2nd to Houston. (Shrug)

I’ve actually heard this one for awhile now… the GM is very familiar with Levis and feels a connection with him… long lost son type shit or similar personalities something like that

[Chromeburn]

S2 guy speaks on leaked scores. Might have been some context missing for Stroud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZtxQxqHe_E&t=29s

[JAFF]

Sam Darnold was the #1 QB and Baker Mayfield was the #4 QB the whole time... until the day of the draft.

Wow, thanks for that cold bucket of water

[ChaosTheory]

Rumors starting to pick up. Not that you have any reason to believe any of them...

Read that Levis told people that CAR is taking him #1 and someone leaked it, Kyler Murray is banging the table to draft Paris Johnson at #3, and that NE might trade Mac Jones to HOU as part of a move to #2.

[IndyNorm]

Wow, clearly touched some nerves here. Like I said, it's another similarity to Wentz, of which there are already far too many. I did look it up, I knew what it said, it's not the worst thing one could pick from the Bible, he could've picked something about incest or stoning people for wearing the wrong thing, both of which would've been way worse. I don't particularly care what any of their religious beliefs or lack thereof are, I just don't want Carson Wentz 2.0.

No nerves struck here. I was just pointing out how stupid you are for criticizing someone for having a tattoo that references a quote which states you should work hard.

[Dam8610]

No nerves struck here. I was just pointing out how stupid you are for criticizing someone for having a tattoo that references a quote which states you should work hard.

It's not about what the Bible verse says, it's about him loudly advertising that he's a Christian, just like Carson Wentz did. Levis couldn't be more Carson Wentz if he was trying.

[CletusPyle]

It's not about what the Bible verse says, it's about him loudly advertising that he's a Christian, just like Carson Wentz did. Levis couldn't be more Carson Wentz if he was trying.

Will you have someone there with you tonight just in case the Colts pick Levis?

[Mr. Session]

It's not about what the Bible verse says, it's about him loudly advertising that he's a Christian, just like Carson Wentz did. Levis couldn't be more Carson Wentz if he was trying.

You pick some weird fucking hills to die on.

[IndyNorm]

It's not about what the Bible verse says, it's about him loudly advertising that he's a Christian, just like Carson Wentz did. Levis couldn't be more Carson Wentz if he was trying.

So since they're part of the same religion they're the same person? JFC you really do get dumber by the post.

[IndyNorm]

Will you have someone there with you tonight just in case the Colts pick Levis?

I have to admit that even though Levis isn't my first choice for us to pick tonight, part of me hopes we do draft him just so we can watch Dam have a stroke and shit his pants on here.

[Colts And Orioles]

It's not about what the Bible verse says, it's about him loudly advertising that he's a Christian, just like Carson Wentz did. Levis couldn't be more Carson Wentz if he was trying.





o


It could be worse. It could be Tim Tebow telling everybody that it was "God's will" when his Florida team beat a hapless opponent by a score of 66-3, and then literally cried when they were beaten by Alabama in the SEC championship game ...... in Tebow's world, "Gods will" only applied when he and his teammates were humiliating an overmatched opponent, but not when they were getting their asses kicked by a team that was capable of fighting back.

o

[Dam8610]

So since they're part of the same religion they're the same person? JFC you really do get dumber by the post.

That's the latest in a long list of similarities.

Both QBs have footwork issues that affect their accuracy
Both QBs play hero ball too often
Both QBs are careless with the football and turn it over in crucial situations
Both QBs are 6'5"ish gingers with strong arms
Both QBs are Christians and really loud about it

[Brylok]

JMV spent the first segment of his show yesterday sucking off CJ Stroud. We'll see how that goes. I don't know why people get so invested in these QBs who've not taken a single snap in the NFL. The only one I definitely don't want is Young, and that's only because he's too small and thin to last very long.

[Spike]

That's the latest in a long list of similarities.

Both QBs have footwork issues that affect their accuracy
Both QBs play hero ball too often
Both QBs are careless with the football and turn it over in crucial situations
Both QBs are 6'5"ish gingers with strong arms
Both QBs are Christians and really loud about it

Top 3 statements are possibly true, and valid points.
Last 2 statements are so damn dumb.

As stated by so many on this board, I am so glad you are not the Colt's GM. That would be the only thing that would make me stop being a Colts fan.

Geez!!!!!!

[JAFF]

That's the latest in a long list of similarities.

Both QBs have footwork issues that affect their accuracy
Both QBs play hero ball too often
Both QBs are careless with the football and turn it over in crucial situations
Both QBs are 6'5"ish gingers with strong arms
Both QBs are Christians and really loud about it

Maybe Levis is a clone. Ever watch the Mandilorian?

[YDFL Commish]

If the pick is Richardson, I will be shocked. The reason being is that two of Irsay's most trusted advisors would disagree.

Richardson literally checks none of the boxes of the Bill Polian prerequisites in drafting 1st round QB.

If Levis does indeed have the PM endorsement, then I can't just ignore that. It may not hold as much weight as Polian's, but if Peyton thinks that Levis has the work ethic that it takes to be a championship NFL QB, then I'm taking that into consideration.

I'm not leaning on PM, for talent evaluation, just desire, work ethic and the love of football.

[apballin]

If the pick is Richardson, I will be shocked. The reason being is that two of Irsay's most trusted advisors would disagree.

Richardson literally checks none of the boxes of the Bill Polian prerequisites in drafting 1st round QB.

If Levis does indeed have the PM endorsement, then I can't just ignore that. It may not hold as much weight as Polian's, but if Peyton thinks that Levis has the work ethic that it takes to be a championship NFL QB, then I'm taking that into consideration.

I'm not leaning on PM, for talent evaluation, just desire, work ethic and the love of football.

The game has changed….. this isn’t granddaddy Polians game anymore… and ofcourse Manning isn’t gonna endorse a Florida guy

[IndyNorm]

Top 3 statements are possibly true, and valid points.
Last 2 statements are so damn dumb.

As stated by so many on this board, I am so glad you are not the Colt's GM. That would be the only thing that would make me stop being a Colts fan.

Geez!!!!!!

Not only that but it looks like Levis has dirty blonde hair, which makes him not a ginger.

As for his mechanics: the fact that he's been working with Jim Palmer and improved between the combine and his pro day is encouraging and very unWentz.

He's not my preferred pick for us, and maybe not even my 2nd. But if we end up with him I don't think he's the doomsday scenario that Dam and Gregg Doyel think he is.

[Chromeburn]

Not only that but it looks like Levis has dirty blonde hair, which makes him not a ginger.

As for his mechanics: the fact that he's been working with Jim Palmer and improved between the combine and his pro day is encouraging and very unWentz.

He's not my preferred pick for us, and maybe not even my 2nd. But if we end up with him I don't think he's the doomsday scenario that Dam and Gregg Doyel think he is.

Levis is blonde. I also think he is smarter than Wentz and works harder than Wentz. I don't think the hero ball is ingrained in him like it was Wentz. Wentz had been playing hero ball since he started playing. He was always the best athlete on the field and had to do everything. It's how he learned to play.

Levis didn't do that in 2021, I think he had to do it more in 2022 because they had no one else on that team.

[omahacolt]

You can keep your personal religious beliefs to your self, this is not the forum for that.

Really? What would be an acceptable tat for you? As long as it's not offensive who gives a shit. The dude has every right to express himself.

does dam not have the right to express himself? no matter how retarded it is?

couldn't care less about his religion or tat. some people are turned off by outspoken religious people. sometimes outspoken religious people are annoying cunts.

[IndyNorm]

Levis is blonde. I also think he is smarter than Wentz and works harder than Wentz. I don't think the hero ball is ingrained in him like it was Wentz. Wentz had been playing hero ball since he started playing. He was always the best athlete on the field and had to do everything. It's how he learned to play.

Levis didn't do that in 2021, I think he had to do it more in 2022 because they had no one else on that team.

Wasn't he also injured for a lot of '22? I'm sure limited his mobility and ability to run and extend plays.

[YDFL Commish]

does dam not have the right to express himself? no matter how retarded it is?

couldn't care less about his religion or tat. some people are turned off by outspoken religious people. sometimes outspoken religious people are annoying cunts.

Yes, and there is another forum on here for that.

[YDFL Commish]

The game has changed….. this isn’t granddaddy Polians game anymore… and ofcourse Manning isn’t gonna endorse a Florida guy

I realize the differences in the game, but some of Polian's edicts still run true. As an example, Lamar Jackson ha 2 years more experience than Richardson and out performed him in almost every metric, yet he was still only picked with last pick of the 1st round.

Experience and production always outweigh potential.

[Racehorse]

Long time to wait before putting them on the clock.

[omahacolt]

Yes, and there is another forum on here for that.

meh.

its a part of evaluating a player. seems ok to me

[Colts And Orioles]

Meh.

It's a part of evaluating a player ...... seems OK to me.





o


I agree ...... if a player overtly brings that stuff into his repertoire, whether it be verbally and/or advertising it on his body, then it's fair game.

o

[Chromeburn]

Wasn't he also injured for a lot of '22? I'm sure limited his mobility and ability to run and extend plays.

Yeah; turf toe, shoulder and finger on throwing hand. It hurt his mobility. He had a lot less designed runs than in ‘21. But that might be due to scheme change as well. In one year they went from one of the best offenses in the SEC to one of the worst.