The 1919 Black Sox Scandal

[Colts And Orioles]

o


As a Black Sox expert, the first thing that needs to be said about that entire situation is that there are many things about the entire affair that nobody will ever know for sure (including myself.)

That said, both Shoeless Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver very likely played to win. In fact, Jackson set what was then a World Series record with 12 hits, batted .375 for the series, hit the only home run of the series for either team, and did not make an error on defense. Similarly, Weaver batted .324, did not make an error on defense, and by all accounts played his best to win (not easy to do, knowing that 6 of your teammates are intentionally throwing games.)

Weaver never took a dime, repeatedly asked for a separate trial from his teammates to prove his innocence (of which he was denied), and appealed to the MLB commissioners (Kenesaw Landis, Happy Chandler, and Ford Frick) every year until his death in 1956 to have himself reinstated (all of his appeal were denied.)

Jackson was given $5,000 in an envelope by his best friend and teammate (Lefty Williams) ........ money that he never asked for, and that he did not want. In fact, he even tried to give the money to the team owner (Charlie Comiskey) and report the entire scandal to him but he was intercepted by Harry Grabiner (Comiskey's secretary), who told Jackson that Comiskey had nothing to say to him (even though he had offered a $10,000 reward for anyone giving him any information on the fix.) At that point, Jackson decided that he simply wasn't going to play in the series because of the fix that he knew that his teammates were complicit in. His manager (Kid Gleason) screamed at Jackson that he would play ....... Gleason's statement was not a prediction or a request, it was a threat. The uneducated, illiterate Jackson buckled under the pressure of his manager and owner, and played all 8 games of the series to the best of his ability, but (like teammate Buck Weaver) was not comfortable in doing so.

As stated before, there are still many aspects of the entire affair that people do not know, and will never find out. However, based on the numerous books, articles, and films that I have read and seen, and the people that I have spoken with (I actually called a man named Gardner Stern on the telephone just before he died in 1996 who lived in Chicago his entire life, and who was 16 years-old at the time of the fix, and I spoke extensively with him about it), Jackson and Weaver both played to win, in spite of the pressure of the situation that was on them.



************************************


Me and Gardner Stern


In regard to Gardner Stern, this man ......


A. ) Saw the first game ever at THE ORIGINAL Comiskey Park in April of 1910, when he was 6 and-a-half years old.

B. ) Had his heart broken when it was found out that his beloved White Sox had thrown the 1919 World Series (he in fact went to one of those World Series games against the Reds.)



As I said earlier, his name was Gardner Stern. He was born in 1904, was a life-long White Sox fan, and was a guest in Ken Burns' baseball documentary.

I simply called information for Chicago, Illinois (in 1996), asked for his phone number, and he was nice enough to talk to me for about 20 minutes about the entire Black Sox scandal, plus his lifelong fandom of the White Sox.

o

[Racehorse]

Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall.

[JAFF]

Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall.

He bet on baseball. He tainted the game. Even if he did play hard, he KNEW games were thrown.

MLB is done is the outcomes are predetermined. Its not WWE. Oh, who was a guest on wrestling, Big donnie being a bad guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NsrwH9I9vE

[Colts And Orioles]

He bet on baseball. He tainted the game. Even if he did play hard, he KNEW games were thrown.

MLB is done is the outcomes are predetermined. Its not WWE. Oh, who was a guest on wrestling, Big donnie being a bad guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NsrwH9I9vE





o


Joe Jackson never bet on baseball games, nor was he ever accused of betting on baseball games.

And if you read my OP, you would see that he not only did not want to play in the World Series when he found out that it was fixed (he was coerced into playing by his manager), but he also tried to give the $5,000 that he received from his teammate Lefty Williams (money that he didn't ask for, and that he didn't want) back to Charlie Comiskey (the team owner) and tell him all about what happened and what his teammates had done, but Comiskey had his secretary (Harry Grabiner) intercept him at the door and refused to see him or talk to him ...... even though Comiskey had made a public announcement that he was giving a $10,000 reward for anybody with any knowledge of the fix.

Meanwhile Comiskey himself, whose abusive treatment of his players set the tone for the fix in the first place, and who ignored pleas (and information) from Jackson himself in regard to the fix, is in the Hall-of-Fame.

Also, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were permitted by Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis to resign from their player-manager posts near the end of the 1926 season after former pitcher Dutch Leonard charged that Cobb, Speaker, and Smoky Joe Wood had joined him just before the 1919 World Series in betting on a game they all knew was fixed. Leonard presented letters and other documents to Commissioner Landis President and AL President Ban Johnson, and Johnson thought they would be so potentially damaging to baseball in the wake of the Black Sox scandal that he paid Leonard $20,000 to have them suppressed. Landis, who proposed to have a "zero tolerance policy" when he was hired as the Commissioner of MLB in direct response to the Black Sox scandal, did everything that he could to cover up and gloss over the Ty Cobb/Tris Speaker/Smoky Joe Wood incident for fear that the American public would be completely disillusioned about the authenticity of the game, because it would have been the second major game-fixing scandal in the same time period of time.

o

[JAFF]

o


Joe Jackson never bet on baseball games, nor was he ever accused of betting on baseball games.

And if you read my OP, you would see that he not only did not want to play in the World Series when he found out that it was fixed (he was coerced into playing by his manager), but he also tried to give the $5,000 that he received from his teammate Lefty Williams (money that he didn't ask for, and that he didn't want) back to Charlie Comiskey (the team owner) and tell him all about what happened and what his teammates had done, but Comiskey had his secretary (Harry Grabiner) intercept him at the door and refused to see him or talk to him ...... even though Comiskey had made a public announcement that he was giving a $10,000 reward for anybody with any knowledge of the fix.

Meanwhile Comiskey himself, whose abusive treatment of his players set the tone for the fix in the first place, and who ignored pleas (and information) from Jackson himself in regard to the fix, is in the Hall-of-Fame.

Also, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were permitted by Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis to resign from their player-manager posts near the end of the 1926 season after former pitcher Dutch Leonard charged that Cobb, Speaker, and Smoky Joe Wood had joined him just before the 1919 World Series in betting on a game they all knew was fixed. Leonard presented letters and other documents to Commissioner Landis President and AL President Ban Johnson, and Johnson thought they would be so potentially damaging to baseball in the wake of the Black Sox scandal that he paid Leonard $20,000 to have them suppressed. Landis, who proposed to have a "zero tolerance policy" when he was hired as the Commissioner of MLB in direct response to the Black Sox scandal, did everything that he could to cover up and gloss over the Ty Cobb/Tris Speaker/Smoky Joe Wood incident for fear that the American public would be completely disillusioned about the authenticity of the game, because it would have been the second major game-fixing scandal in the same time period of time.

o

I understand. But if you give a cheater an out, others see a way around the rules.

They hold back players like Gil Hodges, who played the game right, and was a great teacher of the game

[Racehorse]

I understand. But if you give a cheater an out, others see a way around the rules.

They hold back players like Gil Hodges, who played the game right, and was a great teacher of the game

are you always a moron?

[JAFF]

are you always a moron?

You dont bet on baseball if you are a player. Are you learning impared?

[Colts And Orioles]

I understand. But if you give a cheater an out, others see a way around the rules.

They hold back players like Gil Hodges, who played the game right, and was a great teacher of the game
o


If you read anything that I wrote, you would see that Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver were not cheaters (particularly Jackson, who did everything that he could to report the fix to the team owner, and tried to give the unsolicited $5,000 that he received to them.)

On the other hand, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker WERE both documented cheaters whom were involved in fixed games that same season, yet they were both inducted in the Hall-of-Fame.

o

[Racehorse]

You dont bet on baseball if you are a player. Are you learning impared?

He never bet on baseball.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Speaking of somebody l WHO DID l bet on baseball games ......



Pete Rose to Appear on Field in Philadelphia Next Month

(Associated Press)

https://www.inquirer.com/wires/ap/pete-rose-appear-field-philadelphia-next-month-20220724.html

o

[JAFF]

o


Speaking of somebody l WHO DID l bet on baseball games ......



Pete Rose to Appear on Field in Philadelphia Next Month

(Associated Press)

https://www.inquirer.com/wires/ap/pete-rose-appear-field-philadelphia-next-month-20220724.html

o

Shouldnt be allowed to sell peanuts there let alone be on the field

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Speaking of somebody l WHO DID l bet on baseball games ......



Pete Rose to Appear on Field in Philadelphia Next Month

(Associated Press)

https://www.inquirer.com/wires/ap/pete-rose-appear-field-philadelphia-next-month-20220724.html

o







He shouldn't be allowed to sell peanuts there, let alone be on the field.





o


In terms of guilt, Pete Rose is the anti-Buck Weaver/anti-Shoeless Joe Jackson ...... whereas Weaver and Jackson were very likely not guilty of what they were accused of, Pete Rose' guilt grew more and more as time went by. First he said that he never bet on baseball games ...... then he admitted that he bet on baseball games, but insisted that he never specifically bet on Reds games when he played and managed the team ...... then he admitted that he specifically bet on Reds games WHILE he was playing and managing the team. And the only reason why continually made these concessions is because there was literally a paper trail proving that he was indeed guilty of all of these transgressions that he could no longer deny.

o

[JAFF]

o


In terms of guilt, Pete Rose is the anti-Buck Weaver/anti-Shoeless Joe Jackson ...... whereas Weaver and Jackson were very likely not guilty of what they were accused of, Pete Rose' guilt grew more and more as time went by. First he said that he never bet on baseball games ...... then he admitted that he bet on baseball games, but insisted that he never specifically bet on Reds games when he played and managed the team ...... then he admitted that he specifically bet on Reds games WHILE he was playing and managing the team. And the only reason why continually made these concessions is because there was literally a paper trail proving that he was indeed guilty of all of these transgressions that he could no longer deny.

o

I wont argue. If a pro game is questioned, then are results are tainted.

If you know, but do nothing, you are guilty.

Dont give Belicheat cover.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


In terms of guilt, Pete Rose is the anti-Buck Weaver/anti-Shoeless Joe Jackson ...... whereas Weaver and Jackson were very likely not guilty of what they were accused of, Pete Rose' guilt grew more and more as time went by. First he said that he never bet on baseball games ...... then he admitted that he bet on baseball games, but insisted that he never specifically bet on Reds games when he played and managed the team ...... then he admitted that he specifically bet on Reds games WHILE he was playing and managing the team. And the only reason why continually made these concessions is because there was literally a paper trail proving that he was indeed guilty of all of these transgressions that he could no longer deny.

o






I wont argue. If a pro game is questioned, then are results are tainted.

If you know, but do nothing, you are guilty.

Don't give Belicheat cover.




o


This has nothing to do with my post about Pete Rose. Rose bet on games that he was playing in, and managing in. Shoeless Joe Jackson did everything that he possibly could to not participate in the fixed 1919 World Series (including reporting the entire situation to the team owner, trying to give him the money that was given to him that he didn't ask for in the first place, and telling his manager that he didn't want to play at all in the series before the manager coerced him into playing.) Buck Weaver specifically asked for a separate trial (and was denied) from the other accused players because he wanted nothing to do with the fix, and never took a dime from anyone.

If you are insinuating that a couple of uneducated baseball players in 1919 playing in a time when they had no rights whatsoever in terms of free agency and arbitration should have necessarily immediately gone to the press and made statements about the rumors that they heard about what their teammates were planning and hired lawyers to represent them on the spot, you're living in an extremely unrealistic world.

o