The build

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I don’t remember ever complaining about letting Melvin walk, only how young and thin Ballard left the position.

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Ok, now I get your point – so all of the good stuff the Colts have accomplished this year is due to Luck’s return and the change in coaching staff. All the bad stuff – really just the 2-5 record – is due to Ballard’s misguided plan to use younger players in place of the Hankins, Simons and Andersons of the world. Do I have it about right?

The problem with this theory is that, again, it isn’t supported by the facts. The Colts improvement isn’t limited to the offense – as I’ve posted previously, statistically this group of young defenders is outperforming last year’s squad by a large margin in almost every category (actually it is in EVERY category I’ve looked at, but I’ll say “almost every category” because I can’t say I’ve looked at all of them). I suppose this was just as you predicted too, right? That’s why your railed against Ballard’s decisions to get rid of Hankins and the others?

And you really have mischaracterized my points regarding how the team has “looked”. This isn’t a subjective eyeball assessment like you treat it – it’s apparent from the hard numbers, whether you look a points scored, points given up, sacks, turnovers - whatever. Those are undeniable, but you ignore this stuff in favor of vague ideas that we could have signed “someone” who could have improved the team.

Of course we could have signed players who, in retrospect, would have helped out. But then I could be like you and simply respond by saying “we could have signed some bad players who would have made our defense worse and could have destroyed the culture Ballard is trying to create”. Then we can both stare at each other and say nothing, because both statements are true, so long as we keep it vague. That’s why if you’re going to make this type of argument, you should back it up with examples of the players you’re referring to. Look at the CB free agent list for 2018 and tell me who you think the Colts should have signed. You'll see that the list is much more treacherous than you might realize.

And what makes you so certain the Colts would have drafted Leonard had they picked up a few free agent LBs? Isn’t it possible at least that they would have turned their draft focus somewhere else – perhaps CB for example?

I’ve "admitted" they haven’t won as much as I thought they would, no question, but so what? The point is that they’ve improved dramatically from last season – both on offense and defense – and its validated Ballard's approach. The 2017 Colts never held a team to 5 points, not even the Browns, who were the worst team in the league last year (they scored 28 off of Hankins and the D). I’m guessing that if the 2018 Colts had accomplished their improvements by way of a bringing in a bunch of Mike Adams-like free agents, you’d now be trumpeting the masterful success of that plan. But because it was accomplished in a way that was different than you preferred, you have to explain it away by saying its all Luck and the coaching change. But it's simply not true, no matter how much you want it to be. Give credit where credit is due.

[omahacolt]

Statistically comparing last years team to this years team isn’t fair. Chuck pagano was arguably the worst coach in the history of the nfl.

[YDFL Commish]

At the end of the day, I can't think of one player that Ballard let go, that would have made a difference in the win column.

This team isn't losing due to a lack of talent. They lose because youth makes mistakes, and believe it or not Reich still hasn't shed the team of the stench of Pagano.

What I mean by that is, not every player has totally lost the bad habits of the past, that Pagano kissed them on the cheek for.

[omahacolt]

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

At the end of the day, I can't think of one player that Ballard let go, that would have made a difference in the win column.

This team isn't losing due to a lack of talent. They lose because youth makes mistakes, and believe it or not Reich still hasn't shed the team of the stench of Pagano.

What I mean by that is, not every player has totally lost the bad habits of the past, that Pagano kissed them on the cheek for.

I disagree that this team doesn’t lack talent. I think this team absolutely lacks talent.

[FatDT]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

I disagree that this team doesn’t lack talent. I think this team absolutely lacks talent.

Don't think that's what he's saying. Every team lacks talent somewhere. He's saying lack of talent isn't the main reason they've lost games. Meaning the team has enough talent to win and it's been in-game mistakes that have been the problem. Now you can argue that point either direction.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

Statistically comparing last years team to this years team isn’t fair. Chuck pagano was arguably the worst coach in the history of the nfl.

With all due respect to Dam and his position, I do believe coaches are important so I think you raise a fair point. Not sure how much Pagano dictated the defense last year as we had a coordinator (Monachino) but, before you say it, I'm not saying Monachino was anything special either.

Regardless, I'll agree that stats shouldn't be the entire picture, and can certainly be influenced by a coach's decision making. But stats are nevertheless concrete information that can help anchor opinions in reality. It's certainly fair and smart to supplement that info from other sources. Generally speaking, I personally prefer objective data to eyeball assessments, unless the person providing the eyeball assessments has a proven track record, or those their assessments are described in some way can be verified (for example, the running series of articles on Stampede Blue which analyze a player's performance through a series of videos isolating the player's role over several plays). Sometimes I even ask you for your thoughts on a particular Colts player, because over time I've read lots of your posts on the site and I think your comments are pretty insightful.

With regard to the issue at hand, I guess I'd point out in response that none of the people who left the team are currently being coached by Pagano, and none are tearing up the league right now (Anderson's done reasonably well I guess). So I'm not convinced that their performance last year was out of character for them, and I still think the stats they generated last year are a reasonably good indicator of their skill level.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Chaka

With all due respect to Dam and his position, I do believe coaches are important...

Actually knowing my position would be helpful here, because it does not disagree with your statement. My position is and always has been that the importance of coaching lies in player development, and that the impact of coaching on gameday is negligible. Reich and his staff are an excellent example of this. In my opinion, and the opinion of most here, they've done a great job, yet the team is 2-5. It also has several young players that appear to be budding stars, and several surprise good players like Hunt and Ebron who are castoffs from other teams. The coaching staff has done very well at player development, and yet because the team doesn't have the talent level of some teams (and has had more than their fair share of injuries), if you were to look at the record as the sole point of evaluation, you'd say Reich and his staff are doing poorly. This has been, is, and will continue to be my point on the matter. Coaches won't actually make the difference on gameday. Evidence continues to mount supporting this point.

[Maniac]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Actually knowing my position would be helpful here, because it does not disagree with your statement. My position is and always has been that the importance of coaching lies in player development, and that the impact of coaching on gameday is negligible. Reich and his staff are an excellent example of this. In my opinion, and the opinion of most here, they've done a great job, yet the team is 2-5. It also has several young players that appear to be budding stars, and several surprise good players like Hunt and Ebron who are castoffs from other teams. The coaching staff has done very well at player development, and yet because the team doesn't have the talent level of some teams (and has had more than their fair share of injuries), if you were to look at the record as the sole point of evaluation, you'd say Reich and his staff are doing poorly. This has been, is, and will continue to be my point on the matter. Coaches won't actually make the difference on gameday. Evidence continues to mount supporting this point.

You are skewing your perception of the "evidence" to make it fit your argument. You even admitted that this team has had more than it's fair share of injuries. If our injury situation wasn't as ridiculous as it has been, we would probably be at 4 wins at the very least right now. Coaching absolutely matters on game day. You need talented players and you need coaches who can scheme and call plays to put those players in the best possible position to use their talent. Pagano's dumb ass had no idea how to do that.

[rm1369]

Chaka, I see no reason to continue this conversation. The point to me seems pretty fucking simple - inexperienced teams have a hard to winning consistently. You’ve said they probably haven’t won as much so far because of their youth, but can’t get it through your head that’s that’s my primary point. I simply don’t see a reason to be so young and / or thin at certain spots to start the season. There is nothing in your mind that could allow the team to be 4-3 or 5-2 at this point and still have Leonard, Nelson and a slew of young players with upside. To you as soon as you bring in another vet at LB (doesn’t matter which of the 3 positions) Leonard disappears from the team. You are happy with 110% of Ballard’s moves and I’m happy with probably 85% of them. Somehow that means I give him no credit for anything.

I’ve told you I won’t play the “tell me who” game. I know exactly how that goes. If Ballard hadn’t signed Ebron and I now identified him as a target you’d have 15 reasons we couldn’t have signed him, he wouldn’t help, and / or he would just hold back Swoope’s development. If I had identified Mitchel as a player that could help this team (I wouldn’t have) before he was signed would you have agreed? Fuck no you wouldn’t have! But here he is helping the team win. So no, I won’t play that BS game with you. I’ve already kept Leonard from being drafted. I sure as hell don’t want to get TY cut by improving a shitty WR core.

I’ve said I like the team. I like the progress. I like Ballard. I expect him to get the team back to contender status. I like the coaching staff. I like the majority of the individual players. I simply don’t agree with the depth of the youth movement. I believe (as you have said) that it has cost us games this year. You see the fact they were in a lot of close games as progress. I don’t disagree. But I also see it as proof they could be sitting at 4-3 or 5-2 with small improvements in some areas. Like WRs that can catch. I see the fucking progress, I’m in no way trying to minimize it. Yes I expected progress with the return of a franchise QB and a competent coaching staff. That doesn’t mean I don’t also see the progress in other areas. I’ve said I do. Because I see and expected progress is the reason I only agree with 85% of Ballard’s moves. If I thought everything sucked and had to be burnt down I would, like you, agree with Ballard 100%.

That’s it. I’m done with this conversation. I don’t troll and I don’t criticize every Ballard move. I simply state my opinion. It’s stated. You disagree. Time to move the hell on.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Actually knowing my position would be helpful here, because it does not disagree with your statement. My position is and always has been that the importance of coaching lies in player development, and that the impact of coaching on gameday is negligible. Reich and his staff are an excellent example of this. In my opinion, and the opinion of most here, they've done a great job, yet the team is 2-5. It also has several young players that appear to be budding stars, and several surprise good players like Hunt and Ebron who are castoffs from other teams. The coaching staff has done very well at player development, and yet because the team doesn't have the talent level of some teams (and has had more than their fair share of injuries), if you were to look at the record as the sole point of evaluation, you'd say Reich and his staff are doing poorly. This has been, is, and will continue to be my point on the matter. Coaches won't actually make the difference on gameday. Evidence continues to mount supporting this point.

Sorry, no offense intended, I meant it to be more of a joke given how much debate that issue has generated here. Not trying to beat that dead horse any further.