Draft 2021

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

It’s the C gap, runner is going where the tackle was, not the outside shoulder of the guard. Very few 4-3 systems ran it for this reason. You need good outside LBs that can set the edge. Rob Ninkovichs are hard to find. Its pretty much a 3-4 technique.

The hole that opens is between tackle and guard. That's the B gap. C gap is to the outside of the tackle, and I remember those draw plays all too well. Freeney would run the arc from 9 tech and the back would go to where the tackle was, which is just outside of the guard in the B gap. With a 9 tech DE, the B gap falls squarely on the LB behind him. The Colts may not have had the personnel to run what they were running with Freeney and have a successful run defense, but that's not on Freeney, it's on scheme and personnel the team used. Freeney was actually a very good run defender when he was called upon to do it, and I think the knock he's gotten over the years as a bad run defender is unwarranted. Those criticisms should be put squarely on Ron Meeks, who didn't design a way for Freeney to play 9 tech while maintaining gap integrity for run defense into his scheme.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

He was moved to SAM when they got Cato June.

He got moved to SAM when no one could fill the correct gap.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

The hole that opens is between tackle and guard. That's the B gap. C gap is to the outside of the tackle, and I remember those draw plays all too well. Freeney would run the arc from 9 tech and the back would go to where the tackle was, which is just outside of the guard in the B gap. With a 9 tech DE, the B gap falls squarely on the LB behind him. The Colts may not have had the personnel to run what they were running with Freeney and have a successful run defense, but that's not on Freeney, it's on scheme and personnel the team used. Freeney was actually a very good run defender when he was called upon to do it, and I think the knock he's gotten over the years as a bad run defender is unwarranted. Those criticisms should be put squarely on Ron Meeks, who didn't design a way for Freeney to play 9 tech while maintaining gap integrity for run defense into his scheme.

It’s the c gap. If the running back ran to the B gap it would actually be easier to defend. The LB would have to cover less space and the DT could help. The RB is running to the outside. The LB is trying to set the edge and turn him back inside to traffic.

Freeney defended well in that playoff run they won the super bowl. Scheme/personnel, blame who you want. We didn’t have the LB to properly cover it nor the DT to match the penetration. That’s why you mainly see it in 3-4 and not 4-3. But if he could play the run, they should have let him do that, not play pass every down. But his biggest asset was his speed and they didn’t want to give that up.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

It’s the c gap. If the running back ran to the B gap it would actually be easier to defend. The LB would have to cover less space and the DT could help. The RB is running to the outside. The LB is trying to set the edge and turn him back inside to traffic.

Freeney defended well in that playoff run they won the super bowl. Scheme/personnel, blame who you want. We didn’t have the LB to properly cover it nor the DT to match the penetration. That’s why you mainly see it in 3-4 and not 4-3. But if he could play the run, they should have let him do that, not play pass every down. But his biggest asset was his speed and they didn’t want to give that up.

I'll agree to disagree on the gap. I understand why they had Freeney so wide and played to his strengths, but what I've never understood is why they didn't put the personnel in place to cover the deficiency in the scheme it created.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

It’s the c gap. If the running back ran to the B gap it would actually be easier to defend. The LB would have to cover less space and the DT could help. The RB is running to the outside. The LB is trying to set the edge and turn him back inside to traffic.

Freeney defended well in that playoff run they won the super bowl. Scheme/personnel, blame who you want. We didn’t have the LB to properly cover it nor the DT to match the penetration. That’s why you mainly see it in 3-4 and not 4-3. But if he could play the run, they should have let him do that, not play pass every down. But his biggest asset was his speed and they didn’t want to give that up.

I will add this. No one could run outside the tackles against Freeny and Mathis. Their job was to get up field and play the run on the way to the QB. If teams ran well, it was inside of them and thats where Rob Morris used his run stop abilities. He wasnt able to make that deep drop the Dungy D MLB had to cover in the middle. Give him one gap and he help win that supuer bowl

[Oldcolt]

Originally Posted by JAFF

I will add this. No one could run outside the tackles against Freeny and Mathis. Their job was to get up field and play the run on the way to the QB. If teams ran well, it was inside of them and thats where Rob Morris used his run stop abilities. He wasnt able to make that deep drop the Dungy D MLB had to cover in the middle. Give him one gap and he help win that supuer bowl

My memory is different than yours. It seemed like people ran where ever and how ever they wanted to. I only remember our run defense being stout in those days when Sanders was flying all over the place.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by JAFF

I will add this. No one could run outside the tackles against Freeny and Mathis. Their job was to get up field and play the run on the way to the QB. If teams ran well, it was inside of them and thats where Rob Morris used his run stop abilities. He wasnt able to make that deep drop the Dungy D MLB had to cover in the middle. Give him one gap and he help win that supuer bowl

I think you misinterpreted it. Freeney was three yards up field when the ball snaps. The tackle is pushing him past the QB. The C gap doesn’t travel with them, the C gap stays at the line of scrimmage. A RB isn’t running backwards to run around the tackle, he is running to where the tackle was at the beginning of the play. He is aiming for that area because he knows it is empty due to Freeney pushing up field so fast.

Think of it like a draw without the hesitation. The RB is running to the spot vacated by the DE. He doesn’t want get too close to the B gap with the DT against the guard. He is going wide forcing the LB to run to a spot to keep contain. A RB should win a speed battle with a LB.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2016/4/...nine-technique

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

I'll agree to disagree on the gap. I understand why they had Freeney so wide and played to his strengths, but what I've never understood is why they didn't put the personnel in place to cover the deficiency in the scheme it created.

Sanders was a good eraser but he had no durability. They never invested a high pick in a LB. they wanted fast cover guys bc they knew they would play with a lead. They figured they could live with it and be strong in other areas. But in close games teams exploited it.

[apballin]

It’s nice to have a defense that shuts down the run now, I’ll say that

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

My memory is different than yours. It seemed like people ran where ever and how ever they wanted to. I only remember our run defense being stout in those days when Sanders was flying all over the place.

The opposition ran inside of the DE's. Every once and a while they would stunt in, but the DE's job was to get up the field and push the QB forward into the DT's. There were so many times that Freeney or Mathis would just run past a T. The Dungy D doesn't work if you don't have a Bruckner pushing a G or C into the QB's feet.

The Dungy D was designed to disrupt the West Coast 3-5-7 step drop progression. Force that QB out of his drop pattern and mess up the timing. That's why getting McFarland finally made that D work. Outside pressure is great, but if no one threatens up the middle, it's less effective.

Sanders was the equalizer. Look at the Tampa D, The S Safety acts like a linebacker. He comes up and and makes plays. People forget how well Bethea played behind Sanders on Pass D, with pass coverage on the back end.