ColtFreaks.com - Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum   ColtFreaks.com Home Page

Go Back   ColtFreaks.com - Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum > Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum > Indianapolis Colts Discussion
Register FAQ Community Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-24-2017, 04:14 PM
ATrain ATrain is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 4
Thanks: 35
Thanked 15 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
I don't agree with your premise that Pagano is a horrible head coach. Horrible head coaches have career records well below .500 and do things like make key players want to leave the team.


What about your premise that coaches don't matter? Your whole point in this thread is that coaching doesn't matter, talent and luck decide who wins.

Now in this comment you're saying coaching does matter and attributing the Colts record under pagano to pagano's ability to coach the team to wins.

Clearly you see how you're contradicting yourself... Right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-24-2017, 05:56 PM
Coltsalr's Avatar
Coltsalr Coltsalr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 4,874
Thanks: 649
Thanked 691 Times in 352 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njcoltfan View Post
Someone explain this then: D'Juan Smith and T.J.Green are 2 players that Pagano personally worked out and drafted, one is not on the team any more and the other one is no better today then he was the day they drafted him, what does that say about our defensive guru of a coach ???
Khaled Holmes was also a Pagano guy in the draft.

Clearly he’s got a real eye for talent.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-24-2017, 06:21 PM
Brylok's Avatar
Brylok Brylok is offline
"Still at Work"
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,669
Thanks: 2,311
Thanked 3,036 Times in 1,865 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
I don't agree with your premise that Pagano is a horrible head coach. Horrible head coaches have career records well below .500 and do things like make key players want to leave the team.
Pat McAfee wanted to leave the team. Vontae Davis wanted to leave the team. There are probably more that we don't know about. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd venture a guess that Pagano has a sub .500 record in the games Luck didn't play in. His win/loss record is all Andrew Luck winning despite Chuck.
__________________
Soda's Picks Champion: 2014, 2016
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Brylok For This Useful Post:
YDFL Commish (11-24-2017)
  #34  
Old 11-24-2017, 06:36 PM
rcubed's Avatar
rcubed rcubed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,133
Thanks: 934
Thanked 1,477 Times in 815 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brylok View Post
Pat McAfee wanted to leave the team. Vontae Davis wanted to leave the team. There are probably more that we don't know about. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd venture a guess that Pagano has a sub .500 record in the games Luck didn't play in. His win/loss record is all Andrew Luck winning despite Chuck.
Most of his wins also came against the shitty afc south. His record outside our conference is not good, I don't remember the actual numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:44 AM
ChoppedWood ChoppedWood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,615
Thanks: 2,901
Thanked 1,994 Times in 1,136 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierinFL View Post
Shit article.

1. The statistical analysis he links to is talking about luck, though he really means randomness, and it shows that 52% of wins can be attributed to random factors, and 48% are not accounted for by random factors.

But the article Dam linked mis-interprets the article and claims that the 48% is explained by player skill. The original author makes no such claim and in fact, there is no reported methodology in either article to explain how to statistically analyze team performance into player factors vs. coaching factors.

2. The fundamental attribution error occurs when we observe the behavior of others and over-estimate the role of dispositional traits to explain their behavior. Dispositional traits are things like personality, ability, etc. So if make a dispositional attribution toward a team, we would be claiming that their success (or failure) is due to internal factors like player skill OR coaching ability. If we instead made a situational attribution, we would attribute their success (or failure) to external factors like strength of schedule, officiating, etc.
This theory does not address leadership, AT ALL.

3. The illusion of control may apply but it really depends on context. Obv as the author from AFA suggests, it would be wrong to blame Harbaugh for Cundiff's missed FG. But at the same time, practice serves a purpose, it is meant to improve play and reduce mistakes. A team that makes many mistakes has either of two problems, 1) really bad players that don't get better with practice, or 2) really bad coaches who are ineffective at running a practice session.
So here, we can't eliminate bad players, but neither can we eliminate bad coaches, as explaining mistakes. In short, this becomes a non-point.

However, it might be possible to quantify team mistakes. It's difficult without knowing playcalls and assignments, but counting drops, missed blocks, abandoned gaps, miscommunication in the secondary. If this was possible to do in an objective way then coaches could be compared in terms of the number of mistakes their teams make, and this could then be used to compare coaching records.

He's also wrong about the Dungy narrative. The idea that he couldn't get it done in the post-season stuck with him after coming to Indy, and it still lingers because people say we should have won more than 1 Superbowl with Peyton Fucking Manning.

(and for the record, I actually have a PhD in experimental psychology which includes statistics)
Oh shit, someone call the fire department, I think there is a person over in the corner singed to a crisp...

Beautifully done!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-25-2017, 02:53 PM
apballin apballin is offline
Doom -N- Gloom
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,876
Thanks: 1,841
Thanked 1,138 Times in 645 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brylok View Post
Pat McAfee wanted to leave the team. Vontae Davis wanted to leave the team. There are probably more that we don't know about. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd venture a guess that Pagano has a sub .500 record in the games Luck didn't play in. His win/loss record is all Andrew Luck winning despite Chuck.
Bullshit and Bullshit, players were lined up in support for Pagano when everyone thought he was walking in Irsay's office to get fired that day

Say what you will about the guy but players want to play for him and they've got his back
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-25-2017, 06:49 PM
omahacolt's Avatar
omahacolt omahacolt is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,239
Thanks: 1,460
Thanked 4,290 Times in 1,755 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apballin View Post
Bullshit and Bullshit, players were lined up in support for Pagano when everyone thought he was walking in Irsay's office to get fired that day

Say what you will about the guy but players want to play for him and they've got his back
That was when he was lying to them about grigson.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to omahacolt For This Useful Post:
ChoppedWood (11-25-2017)
  #38  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:08 PM
ChoppedWood ChoppedWood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,615
Thanks: 2,901
Thanked 1,994 Times in 1,136 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omahacolt View Post
That was when he was lying to them about grigson.
That's when he was lying to them that he understood the difference between a touchdown and a 3 pointer.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ChoppedWood For This Useful Post:
Racehorse (11-25-2017)
  #39  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:23 PM
Puck's Avatar
Puck Puck is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Fort Wayne
Posts: 7,930
Thanks: 1,782
Thanked 2,853 Times in 1,402 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoppedWood View Post
That's when he was lying to them that he understood the difference between a touchdown and a 3 pointer.
Or the Rams and the Chargers
__________________
Gonna win it all.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Puck For This Useful Post:
ChoppedWood (11-26-2017), Racehorse (11-25-2017)
  #40  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:24 PM
Racehorse's Avatar
Racehorse Racehorse is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: God's green Earth
Posts: 12,928
Thanks: 17,125
Thanked 4,398 Times in 2,530 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post
Or the Rams and the Chargers
49ers
__________________
Keep your political crap out of a football forum! Nobody here gives a rat's a**
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Racehorse For This Useful Post:
Puck (11-25-2017)
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
ColtFreaks.com is in no way affiliated with the Indianapolis Colts, the NFL, or any of their subsidiaries.