A few things I think

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Bit conservative on Manning, I think (as a homer). Prime Manning would have torched this version of the league. Old, broken Manning only got to play 3 seasons under the 2011 changes... 17 game averages: 5264yds, 46tds, 13int.

Mahomes/Allen sweep HOU, GB, MIN and probably DEN. Defense earned JAX and NYG, so keep them. That's 12-13 wins

Good QB would have at least split with HOU, scored 17 on GB, which is already a division championship. Good QB probably would've beaten MIN that night. Hell, probably DEN, too.

Mishew level QB would've had us at 9-8 again.

Remember also better QB play would have meant the defense was on the field less. Rested defense = better results. This is not an endorsement of the scheme, yes I think moving on from it is a good thing. But they were gassed a lot the past two years. We had the most games decided by a few points in the league I believe. That’s the QB play difference.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Old, broken Manning only got to play 3 seasons under the 2011 changes ...... his 17-game averages were: 5264 YDS, 46 TD's, 13 INT.

o


Manning played 4 seasons after those rule changes ...... he had 3 great seasons in 2012, 2013, and 2014 before plantar fasciitis severely hobbled him in the 2015 season.

In 2012, 2013, and 2014 combined, Manning had 131 TD's, 36 INT's, and 14,863 Yards Passing. His combined QB-rating in those 3 seasons was 107.8.


Manning was vintage Manning in 2012, 2013, and 2014, even though he was 36, 37, and 38 years-old respectively. He wasn't severely hobbled until 2015, his final season.

o

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o


Manning played 4 seasons after those rule changes ...... he had 3 great seasons in 2012, 2013, and 2014 before plantar fasciitis severely hobbled him in the 2015 season.

In 2012, 2013, and 2014 combined, Manning had 131 TD's, 36 INT's, and 14,863 Yards Passing. His combined QB-rating in those 3 seasons was 107.8.


Manning was vintage Manning in 2012, 2013, and 2014, even though he was 36, 37, and 38 years-old respectively. He wasn't severely hobbled until 2015, his final season.

o

True, but my point is this is post-neck Manning. Wear a glove because I can't feel the tips of my fingers Manning. Old Manning. And he torched the league for 3 years before he fell apart.

I'm just saying '04-'09 (or '03-'10) Manning would've done even more damage in the post-2011 NFL inflation.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

True, but my point is this is post-neck Manning. Wear a glove because I can't feel the tips of my fingers Manning. Old Manning. And he torched the league for 3 years before he fell apart.

I'm just saying '04-'09 (or '03-'10) Manning would've done even more damage in the post-2011 NFL inflation.

o


I believe that Manning would have torched this current 2024 league any time between 1999 and 2014.

His rookie season in 1998 and his final season of 2015 were the only versions of Manning that would not have done so.

His best season statistically was 2013, when he had 55 TD's, 10 INT's, and a 115.1 Passer Rating.


Manning lost arm-strength after the neck surgery, but he compensated by being even more accurate than he already was in his shorter passes and a slightly quicker release.

o

[Thorgrim]

To be fair, comparing AR to Manning is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari. This would be true of many of todays quarterbacks although in AR’s case the Yugo has a suspect engine and transmission. One thing I am certain of is AR’s lack of toughness or mental fortitude. A tap out? Seriously? If Bromell had broken AR’s jaw Richardson would be asking for a priest and last rites before he got to the sideline.

[Racehorse]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o


I believe that Manning would have torched this current 2024 league any time between 1999 and 2014.

His rookie season in 1998 and his final season of 2015 were the only versions of Manning that would not have done so.

His best season statistically was 2013, when he had 55 TD's, 10 INT's, and a 115.1 Passer Rating.


Manning lost arm-strength after the neck surgery, but he compensated by being even more accurate than he already was in his shorter passes and a slightly quicker release.

o

2014 Andrew Luck would have done the same thing.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

To be fair, comparing AR to Manning is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari. This would be true of many of todays quarterbacks although in AR’s case the Yugo has a suspect engine and transmission. One thing I am certain of is AR’s lack of toughness or mental fortitude. A tap out? Seriously? If Bromell had broken AR’s jaw Richardson would be asking for a priest and last rites before he got to the sideline.

True. But I think the point (at least the one I was making), is that the perception that this roster, outside of QB, can't win is misguided.

This roster doesn't require PM, Mahomes, Allen, etc. to squeak into the playoffs. I think some guys who aren't bleeding out of the eyes can see that if we just don't have outright bad QB play, that's when we squeak into the playoffs. Remember, we're talking about historically low efficiency.

Any levels above that, increase the success. It's not a roster that has arguably the best QB in the NFL (Burrow) and missed the playoffs. The ChoppedWood of that fanbase has more of a case.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

To be fair, comparing AR to Manning is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari. This would be true of many of todays quarterbacks.

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

True ...... but I think that the point (at least the one I was making) is that the perception that this roster, outside of QB, can't win is misguided.

o


Thanks, and that is what I was going to say. That is why I included other QB's in my post, and gave my projected win total for each of them (13 for Manning, 12 for Patrick Mahomes, 11 for Josh Allen, and 10 for a very good-but-not-great quarterback.)

Also, Richardson was not the only culprit that was being compared to Manning and/or other top QB's regarding the Colts' 2024 season ...... Joe Flacco was absolutely horrible in the Colts' back-to-back losses to the Vikings and the Bills when Richardson was benched mid-season. And in spite of Flacco and the offense being horrid in both of those contests, they were both close games ...... the Bills game was very close early in the 4th quarter (20-13.) The Bills put the game out of reach with a TD with just over 3 minutes left to play. The Colts added a cosmetic TD to make the final score 30-20.

o

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

True. But I think the point (at least the one I was making), is that the perception that this roster, outside of QB, can't win is misguided.

This roster doesn't require PM, Mahomes, Allen, etc. to squeak into the playoffs. I think some guys who aren't bleeding out of the eyes can see that if we just don't have outright bad QB play, that's when we squeak into the playoffs. Remember, we're talking about historically low efficiency.

Any levels above that, increase the success. It's not a roster that has arguably the best QB in the NFL (Burrow) and missed the playoffs. The ChoppedWood of that fanbase has more of a case.

I don’t think it’s the worst roster in the league by any means. It’s certainly not devoid of talent. But saying the roster needs good QB play to squeak into the playoffs also isn’t exactly a flex or an indication it is a particularly strong roster either. It’s certainly not the Brad Johnson led Bucs, Dilfer led Ravens, or even Foles Eagles roster. It’s a mediocre roster put together by a GM who claimed he was building a complete roster that wasn’t dependent on a QB. And Ballard has misstepped multiple times trying to find a QB. Yes, I know - it’s hard. But if he’s mediocre at building the rest of the roster, bad at finding a QB, and even he seems to now acknowledge a culture issue, WTF is it that he brings?

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I don’t think it’s the worst roster in the league by any means. It’s certainly not devoid of talent. But saying the roster needs good QB play to squeak into the playoffs also isn’t exactly a flex or an indication it is a particularly strong roster either. It’s certainly not the Brad Johnson led Bucs, Dilfer led Ravens, or even Foles Eagles roster. It’s a mediocre roster put together by a GM who claimed he was building a complete roster that wasn’t dependent on a QB. And Ballard has misstepped multiple times trying to find a QB. Yes, I know - it’s hard. But if he’s mediocre at building the rest of the roster, bad at finding a QB, and even he seems to now acknowledge a culture issue, WTF is it that he brings?

But that wasn't the claim and it changes the premise. My previous post argued against that claim...

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Bit conservative on Manning, I think (as a homer). Prime Manning would have torched this version of the league. Old, broken Manning only got to play 3 seasons under the 2011 changes... 17 game averages: 5264yds, 46tds, 13int.

Mahomes/Allen sweep HOU, GB, MIN and probably DEN. Defense earned JAX and NYG, so keep them. That's 12-13 wins

Good QB would have at least split with HOU, scored 17 on GB, which is already a division championship. Good QB probably would've beaten MIN that night. Hell, probably DEN, too.

Mishew level QB would've had us at 9-8 again.

I don't think it's unreasonable to believe the bolded scenario if we had "good" QB play. I would argue 3, maybe 4 wins, but it's at least 2 wins. And just like that, it's a division title. NFL margins.

Minshew, who I assume we don't consider a good QB, is the level of QB that squeaks us into the playoffs. Speaking of him... Colts and Raiders were 9-8 and 8-9 respectively last year. Minshew went 7-6 with us, and 2-7 with them. His surroundings were not the same.