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  #11  
Old 09-09-2024, 12:08 AM
Dam8610 Dam8610 is offline
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Originally Posted by Racehorse View Post
I have a slightly different take than most. The Texans were holding all game long, and not one call. Several of the third and long conversions were aided by holding our DLine. If not for that, the defense would have gotten off the field much earlier, gotten rest, and changed the TOP greatly.
The constant holding (including on Stroud's miracle 3rd and 14 in Q3, Paye was held by Tunsil which was why he was a half step too slow), the two called back INTs (Brents got both feet in, Idc that he was not moving forward, his toe was in before his heel touched), and the final blown call to let Collins convert the 3rd down right after the 2 minute warning we're all backbreakers that gave Houston at least 10 points. Add the 10-14 points Richardson left on the field and this game could've been a blowout Colts win. They'll just have to get that game back in Houston now. But first, they need to beat the Packers next week.
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i was wrong.
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2024, 08:12 PM
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o


A) ) First of all, it would depend on what the scores were. 6 FG's ceded is a lot different than 6 TD's ceded. In this case of today's game, is was a mix of both (3 FG's, and 3 TD's.)

B) ) I would not use that stat solely to be based the overall defense's performance. For example, I stated specifically why I thought the the defense was lucky because of the Texans' clock mismanagement on the final drive of the first half, and why l thought that they were unlucky on the final drive of the game.

C) ) It would also depend on how many times the team's offense put the defense in a bad position to begin with ...... and today that only happened once, when the Colts' offense gave the ball to the Texans near midfield when they turned the ball over on downs on the opening drive of the game. And that drive ended with a field goal. Giving up a field goal when the other team starts the drive near midfield is not great, but it's also not horrible. If I recall correctly, we did this dance last year when you refused to budge after a game in which the Colts' offense put the defense in numerous bad situations, and you stubbornly put all of the blame on the defense for giving up points for drives that started deep in their own territory. You referenced Mike Curtis and the old Colts teams from the 1967, 1968, and 1971 seasons who set records for the least amount of points ceded in a 14-game season as a comparison, and said something along the lines of "good defenses don't give up points, no matter what" ...... and it appears that you are trying to do this again by narrowing down the criteria of a defense's performance to a single fact/statistic. If you want to do that fine, but anybody who is trying to use some objectivity takes into account all of the factors that occur during a game when judging a defense. I believe that the defense was mediocre today, and I partially explained why in my OP. Thorgrim, Omaha, and Hoopsdoc all thought that the defense was flat-out bad, and Racehorse leaned more towards my view. I think that an argument can be made for both (mediocre, and bad.)

Also, I never said that I was OK with mediocrity in the first place.....I'm not. Mediocrity will generally lead to an overall record of somewhere between 6-11 and 9-8, and I'm not OK with that. Today's game could have been won with a better performance by the Colts' defense, and it also could have been won with better run-blocking from the Colts' offensive line.

o

I appreciate your view. Also, I'm not insinuating that you are saying this, but I do not ever want to hear TOP as an excuse for poor defense. The defenses job, and especially the DC is to get off the fucking field ASAP and then there is no argument for a TOP discussion. Three and outs solve a lot of problems. How many of those did we have yesterday? Could not have been many, since the Texicans only punted once and had zero turnovers.

I understand there is such a thing as situational football and there are times that allowing the opponent to use long time consuming drives is a benefit. But, does Bradley understand how this works? I don't think so. If the defense suddenly is in a TOP deficit then IMO it's better to take some chances and get them off the field quickly, rather than let them die a slow death that they will never be able to fight back from.
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2024, 08:47 PM
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I appreciate your view. Also, I'm not insinuating that you are saying this, but I do not ever want to hear TOP as an excuse for poor defense. The defenses job, and especially the DC is to get off the fucking field ASAP and then there is no argument for a TOP discussion. Three and outs solve a lot of problems. How many of those did we have yesterday? Could not have been many, since the Texicans only punted once and had zero turnovers.

I understand there is such a thing as situational football and there are times that allowing the opponent to use long time consuming drives is a benefit. But, does Bradley understand how this works? I don't think so. If the defense suddenly is in a TOP deficit then IMO it's better to take some chances and get them off the field quickly, rather than let them die a slow death that they will never be able to fight back from.
For a former HC and experienced DC, he sure looks like a rookie out of his league.
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2024, 10:22 PM
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Also, I'm not insinuating that you are saying this, but I do not ever want to hear TOP as an excuse for poor defense. The defenses job, and especially the DC is to get off the fucking field ASAP and then there is no argument for a TOP discussion. Three-and-outs solve a lot of problems.



o


Time-of-possession is not strictly the responsibility of the defense. A defense could force 5 consecutive punts in the first half, and if the team's offense is consistently going 3-and-out or 4-and-out, then that defense, which is consistently doing their job by forcing punts, is going to be on the field a lot more than if they have an offense that is at least reasonably doing a decent job on their part. And when the 4th quarter rolls around, being on the field that much because of an incompetent offense is very likely to be a factor in the defense's play ...... and in that particular case, a lopsided time-of-possession in favor of the opposition would be more the offense's fault than the defense's.

You may not want to hear that, but it's a fact of life in football. Whether a fan is judging a team's offense or a team's defense, there are very few across-the-board, blanket statements that can be made without scrutinizing the entire situation of the game that is played on the field, which is the point that I made in my previous post.

o
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2024, 11:11 PM
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o


Time-of-possession is not strictly the responsibility of the defense. A defense could force 5 consecutive punts in the first half, and if the team's offense is consistently going 3-and-out or 4-and-out, then that defense, which is consistently doing their job by forcing punts, is going to be on the field a lot more than if they have an offense that is at least reasonably doing a decent job on their part. And when the 4th quarter rolls around, being on the field that much because of an incompetent offense is very likely to be a factor in the defense's play ...... and in that particular case, a lopsided time-of-possession in favor of the opposition would be more the offense's fault than the defense's.

You may not want to hear that, but it's a fact of life in football. Whether a fan is judging a team's offense or a team's defense, there are very few across-the-board, blanket statements that can be made without scrutinizing the entire situation of the game that is played on the field, which is the point that I made in my previous post.

o
Without going too deep down this rabbit hole, of course it's imperative that each unit do its part. At the same time, it's a team game, and when one unit is not doing it's part, then you would expect the other unit to pick up the slack.

For me this is more an indictment on Bradley than individual players. Although we still have some interior DL depth issues and I feel that Zaire Franklin is overrated in general by most Colts fans.
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2024, 10:43 AM
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As far as TOP with the offense goes... we only had two drives the entire game that were more than 4 plays.

Only one real sustained drive. 11 plays, 5:50 that ended in an interception.
Beyond that, our first drive was 3:20 and everything else was 1:30-2:30.

Four of those really short drives were TDs. So it's not like it's always a negative, but certainly has an effect.

I said in the other thread, this was like the Dolphins game in '09.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2024, 11:15 AM
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There have been times where I've been willing to blame the offense for a poor defensive showing.
Times when turnovers would give the other team a short field and put the defense in a tough spot. Or repeated 3 and outs that don't give the defense any rest.

But not this time. We did not have any 3 and outs, though we did have some short drives that didn't use up clock because there was no real threat of a run game.

But the run defense was terrible from the opening drive, so this is not a case of a worn down defense getting run over in the 4th quarter. It was a full game of shit.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2024, 12:43 PM
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There have been times where I've been willing to blame the offense for a poor defensive showing.

Times when turnovers would give the other team a short field and put the defense in a tough spot. Or repeated 3 and outs that don't give the defense any rest.

But not this time. We did not have any 3 and outs, though we did have some short drives that didn't use up clock because there was no real threat of a run game.

But the run defense was terrible from the opening drive, so this is not a case of a worn down defense getting run over in the 4th quarter. It was a full game of shit.


o


My post was not an assertion of what happened on the field on Sunday, but rather a hypothetical of what could happen in response to YDFL Commish's assertion that he never wants to hear about TOP being an excuse for poor play by the defense.

o
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2024, 01:06 PM
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As far as TOP with the offense goes ...... we only had two drives the entire game that were more than 4 plays.

Only one real sustained drive. 11 plays, 5:50 that ended in an interception ...... beyond that, our first drive was 3:20 and everything else was 1:30-2:30.

Four of those really short drives were TDs. So it's not like it's always a negative, but certainly has an effect.

I said in the other thread, this was like the Dolphins game in '09.



o


Speaking of the Dolphins, the Killer B's defenses of the early 1980's led them to 2 Super Bowl appearances in 3 years, in 1982 in 1984. The late David Woodley was the quarterback for the 1982 team that lost to the Redskins, and Dan Marino was the quarterback for the 1984 team that lost to the 49ers.

Those "Killer B" defenses eventually wound up being affected both positively and negatively by some who would argue was the greatest quarterback of all-time, Dan Marino. Marino and the Marx Brothers (Duper and Clayton) would often put up points in a hurry, the antithesis of Darrel Royal's long-sustained drives when he coached for the University of Texas. That was great for the defense, because they knew that they were never out of the game with the magician (Dan Marino) and his cohorts on the other side of the ball ...... but it would also drain them, because those great offenses scoring as quickly as they did meant that that the defense would often find themselves on the field a lot, whether they started the early portion of a game playing well or not.

The quintessential example of the double-edged sword that Marino and company laid out for their team's defenses was a 1986 game against the Jets. The Jets won that game in overtime by a score of 51-45, on a 43-yard bomb from Ken O'Brien to Wesley Walker. Years later, Dan Marino quipped l "Man, I threw 6 touchdown passes in that game, and we still lost."




Week 3 ...... The Marino vs. O’Brien Duel

(Pro Football History)

https://www.nfl.com/100/originals/10...d%20touchdowns.

o
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  #20  
Old 09-15-2024, 04:00 PM
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o


(vs. PACKERS, 9/15)



Possessions: lllllllllllll, 10

Punts: llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll 3 l

Fumbles: lllllllllllllllllllllllllllt 1

Clock Ran Out: llllllll,) 1

Missed FG's: lllllllllllllllll 1

TD's: llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllt 1

FG's: llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllt 3 ) (1 Off of a Turnover on Downs)

o
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