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  #11  
Old 11-15-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
I realize we're in an era of inflated passing stats, but I still find it remarkable that Luck is nearly on a Peyton 49 TD pace while throwing to the likes of Ryan Grant and Chester Rogers. Can you imagine what he would look like with 2004 Marvin, Reggie, and Stokley?
You're leaving out the TE's, which is what is making this offense so effective. It isn't Luck to Rogers or Luck to Grant, but Luck to Ebron, Doyle, Mo-Allie, in regards to the skill players anyway. The massive o-line improvement is helping to make it all happen of course.

Last edited by Maniac; 11-15-2018 at 07:47 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2018, 01:27 AM
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You're leaving out the TE's, which is what is making this offense so effective. It isn't Luck to Rogers or Luck to Grant, but Luck to Ebron, Doyle, Mo-Allie, in regards to the skill players anyway. The massive o-line improvement is helping to make it all happen of course.
Peyton had Clark and Pollard in 2004, so I considered that a wash vs 2018. The difference is the WRs.
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:43 AM
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Now this is something that I feel is appreciably better about 2018 Luck. He always had very good touch and accuracy, but I feel like he's taken it to a new level this season.
He just has time to throw. I think this QB has always been there. I will say he is making smarter decisions when running now.
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  #14  
Old 11-16-2018, 08:50 AM
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What Dam said. The author says Luck "looks like a different QB." I say, he could always do this. The difference is that he's only now being asked to do it.
I think to some degree both are true. The previous schemes and, to a lesser degree, talent level required the Favre like gun slinger, “its all on me” mentality. They won and lost almost solely on his individual brilliance. His ability to throw a guy open, his ability to deliver a perfect throw as he’s being crushed by a defender, or his toughness to tuck the ball, run, and lower a shoulder to get that extra yard if necessary. It worked until it didn’t. And over time it becomes a bad habit that can limit a QBs ceiling. Luck was on that path.

Reich’s scheme places Xs and Os over individual brilliance. He puts guys in position to make plays. He understands what a player brings to the table and uses it to stress the defense. There is an article out there about the Colts use of Ebron that mentions Reich’s pitch to Ebron. The basic pitch was that Reich understood Ebron’s unique skills and how to utilize them. He wouldn’t be an every down player, but when he was used it would be as a difference maker. I don’t think anyone can argue Reich hasn’t done exactly that. And you see it with most of the other offensive players. And that includes Luck IMO. Instead of being the entertaining and brilliant sole member of a one man band, Luck is becoming the boring, but no less brilliant conductor of a much larger orchestra. Luck has always had it in him - he’s a smart unselfish player - but I think it’s also a mistake to believe Luck isn’t becoming a better player under Reich’s leadership.
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2018, 11:18 AM
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I think to some degree both are true. The previous schemes and, to a lesser degree, talent level required the Favre like gun slinger, “its all on me” mentality. They won and lost almost solely on his individual brilliance. His ability to throw a guy open, his ability to deliver a perfect throw as he’s being crushed by a defender, or his toughness to tuck the ball, run, and lower a shoulder to get that extra yard if necessary. It worked until it didn’t. And over time it becomes a bad habit that can limit a QBs ceiling. Luck was on that path.

Reich’s scheme places Xs and Os over individual brilliance. He puts guys in position to make plays. He understands what a player brings to the table and uses it to stress the defense. There is an article out there about the Colts use of Ebron that mentions Reich’s pitch to Ebron. The basic pitch was that Reich understood Ebron’s unique skills and how to utilize them. He wouldn’t be an every down player, but when he was used it would be as a difference maker. I don’t think anyone can argue Reich hasn’t done exactly that. And you see it with most of the other offensive players. And that includes Luck IMO. Instead of being the entertaining and brilliant sole member of a one man band, Luck is becoming the boring, but no less brilliant conductor of a much larger orchestra. Luck has always had it in him - he’s a smart unselfish player - but I think it’s also a mistake to believe Luck isn’t becoming a better player under Reich’s leadership.
I agree with everything you're saying, but that isn't what the author said. He called Luck a more "decisive" passer. That indicates that the author thinks he held onto the ball for too long, which I think was more a product of scheme and always pushing for the big play.

Maybe I just watched enough of him at Stanford to know that this style of QB was always there and he's simply been doing what the coaches have asked of him this whole time.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
He just has time to throw. I think this QB has always been there. I will say he is making smarter decisions when running now.
Yeah, this is probably the actual difference.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
I agree with everything you're saying, but that isn't what the author said. He called Luck a more "decisive" passer. That indicates that the author thinks he held onto the ball for too long, which I think was more a product of scheme and always pushing for the big play.

Maybe I just watched enough of him at Stanford to know that this style of QB was always there and he's simply been doing what the coaches have asked of him this whole time.
Yeah it’s easier to make a decision when 1) you have time, and 2) you have open options. I guess I agree that it’s not necessarily him being more “decisive” as if he was the primary issue. He played mostly as the scheme led him to play.

However I do think he is playing like a better QB even when you account for the scheme and or time difference. No matter the reason he had developed some Farve’esque type habits that you don’t want a QB to develop. I agree that they developed because of the previous scheme and the teams need for him to carry them. But I do see them as bad habits and not a function of the scheme. As much as I disliked the previous scheme I’m pretty confident it didn’t call for Luck to predetermine and stare down his target (usually T.Y. or Doyle). That was him. Same with trying to make the perfect high risk throw while getting hit. I gaurentee he was told to throw the ball away. That’s where I see the difference in Luck that is not specifically a function of scheme. But it’s a chicken and egg kinda thing and all that matters is that it gets corrected. And currently it appears it is heading in a positive direction.

I’ll just add that I don’t see that as a knock on Luck in any way. I just see it as a product of good coaching. No matter how good the player, a good coach can and should make them better. That’s what I see with Luck and Reich and not much is more important for the future of this franchise than that IMO.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:35 PM
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Yeah it’s easier to make a decision when 1) you have time, and 2) you have open options. I guess I agree that it’s not necessarily him being more “decisive” as if he was the primary issue. He played mostly as the scheme led him to play.

However I do think he is playing like a better QB even when you account for the scheme and or time difference. No matter the reason he had developed some Farve’esque type habits that you don’t want a QB to develop. I agree that they developed because of the previous scheme and the teams need for him to carry them. But I do see them as bad habits and not a function of the scheme. As much as I disliked the previous scheme I’m pretty confident it didn’t call for Luck to predetermine and stare down his target (usually T.Y. or Doyle). That was him. Same with trying to make the perfect high risk throw while getting hit. I gaurentee he was told to throw the ball away. That’s where I see the difference in Luck that is not specifically a function of scheme. But it’s a chicken and egg kinda thing and all that matters is that it gets corrected. And currently it appears it is heading in a positive direction.

I’ll just add that I don’t see that as a knock on Luck in any way. I just see it as a product of good coaching. No matter how good the player, a good coach can and should make them better. That’s what I see with Luck and Reich and not much is more important for the future of this franchise than that IMO.
Yep. Only thing I'd add is that he seems to be making fewer of those "what were you thinking?!" throws than he did previously. I'm sure a lot of that is less pressure in the pocket, as well as having a good scheme that gets guys open.
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
Yep. Only thing I'd add is that he seems to be making fewer of those "what were you thinking?!" throws than he did previously. I'm sure a lot of that is less pressure in the pocket, as well as having a good scheme that gets guys open.
Add a former QB and QB coach in guessing Reich has had a hand in that directly.
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:32 PM
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He has a choice of what play to make rather than trying to make a play
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