Free agency 2023

[YDFL Commish]

Originally Posted by rm1369

It’s strange - when we argued about Polian the only thing that mattered to you was wins and losses. And the fact it was done with Manning was largely irrelevant. Polian was an obvious genius because of his wins and losses. Now on Ballard, wins and losses means nothing and his QB situation is critical in analyzing his performance.

You do realize that this is a team game right? Polian and Dungy, Mudd, Moore and Manning are all HOFer's or should be Hall of Famers. Hell I'll even throw in Teerlink and Huey into that mix.

That was unique collection of individuals who worked well together and were very strong minded in their beliefs.

Pagano and Grigson were strong minded pricks who were bull headed and couldn't work together.

Ballard is strong minded and probably had more control than he should have, because of Reich's passive we can win with these guys philosophy. You can see that in the handling of 2 players last season. Reich was hands off on defense and Nick Cross was benched 1 1/2 games into the season. Reich ran the offense and continued to believe in Pryor at two different positions that he failed miserably at for 9 straight games.

Ballard and Reich just did not form a good team. That's nothing against either one of them. It just wasn't working and because we didn't have other coaches the caliber of our 2000's teams and a Peyton Manning, it was never going to work.

[rm1369]

All I’ll say is it’s a shame the amount of historical posts on here is limited. I’m curious how many of you specifically told me that I was crazy for saying Ballard’s methods were embarking on a 4-5 year rebuild. I don’t remember a single person saying yes but it’s going to take that or longer. Not a single person, yet now it’s so obvious that this was the only way to go. At the time it was all calling me an impatient hater who didn’t understand his brilliance or his challenge. Here we are in the exact scenario I said and I’m still just a hater who doesn’t understand his brilliance or challenges. Eventually, if he hits at QB it will be turned around and you guys will crow and bask in your 7-8 year rebuild. I suspect he’ll still be the ultra conservative GM he is now and it will be bad luck when the same issues keep beating the team. Time will tell.

[HoosierinFL]

Good news, Carson Wentz is available!

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by rm1369

All I’ll say is it’s a shame the amount of historical posts on here is limited. I’m curious how many of you specifically told me that I was crazy for saying Ballard’s methods were embarking on a 4-5 year rebuild. I don’t remember a single person saying yes but it’s going to take that or longer. Not a single person, yet now it’s so obvious that this was the only way to go. At the time it was all calling me an impatient hater who didn’t understand his brilliance or his challenge. Here we are in the exact scenario I said and I’m still just a hater who doesn’t understand his brilliance or challenges. Eventually, if he hits at QB it will be turned around and you guys will crow and bask in your 7-8 year rebuild. I suspect he’ll still be the ultra conservative GM he is now and it will be bad luck when the same issues keep beating the team. Time will tell.

They go back to early 2018, which was Ballard's second offseason as you've talked about. If everybody was giving opinions about a 5 year rebuild in the context of 2018, what's so egregious about that?

We had our QB. Were we not way ahead of that 5 year rebuild by the end of 2018? We had just ridden a 10-1 wave, including smacking the division champs at home, into the playoffs where we went back to HOU and smacked the division champs again even worse.

Yeah, in that context, before Luck bailed out, I'd agree with guys that may have thought 4 more years to rebuild was a stretch. Because it was.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

Not really. Other teams have paid guards. Cowboys have pulled it off. The underperformance is the problem. And that is mostly attributable to one player disrupting the entire unit. Pryor just couldn’t get in sync with the oline at tackle or guard. Things started to stabilize once Raimann got better.
.

This proves my point, or at least the point I was trying to make. If your LT sucks then your OL is in all likelihood going to suck. Ballard overspent at the less critical position and therefore (at least in his mind) he had to go cheap at LT. And it was an epic fucking disaster.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

I know what you're saying, I just don't agree with the cliché.

-Darius Leonard was drafted high and eventually paid because he was making edge rusher levels of impact to games from the WLB spot

-Luck is the biggest albatross this team has had and it wasn't caused by LT (we had underrated Castonzo)... he was demolished by years of a pathetic interior OL.

-Grigson finally drafts Kelly on his way out in desperation, Luck misses '17, again because of the interior OL, and Ballard spends the #6 and #37 on guards. Until snake eyes hit this year, they were worth the draft capital and earned their paydays.

-Glenn was a really good LT, but I think I even remember reading Mudd or Dungy or somebody saying that Jake Scott was our best OL. We had a good OL across the board. It's also difficult to judge in a vacuum since Manning was the hardest to sack QB ever.

-Yes, Pryor was a disaster. But Nelson also wasn't himself last season which was part of the rationale behind Reich and Ballard going with Pryor to start. Again, that was about Pryor, not LT. If Pryor and Nelson switched positions, we'd be back to the Luck days desperate to improve the interior OL.

It's not really a cliche, it's a fact that unless you have a left handed QB LT is the most important position on the OL. Not only is he protecting the QBs blind side, but he's typically going up against the other teams best pass rusher.

Guessing the quote about Scott was more about him being the most versatile since he could play multiple OL spots. Glenn and Saturday were definitely the best OL we had in the Peyton era. I just remember back then us plugging in whoever at LG: 7th rounders, UDFAs, guys signed to the practice squad the week before, and it was fine. I'm sure Peyton had a lot to do with that, but Glenn did as well.

Also, I never suggested that Nelson should have been moved to LT. If he was able to do that it probably would have happened well before now.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

It's not really a cliche, it's a fact that unless you have a left handed QB LT is the most important position on the OL. Not only is he protecting the QBs blind side, but he's typically going up against the other teams best pass rusher.

Maybe cliché-lite. I understand it, and in a vacuum I agree, I just think it's a bit overstated. With all the passing in the league, you're seeing pass rushers all over the line. Donald, Jones, Heyward, Buckner... these dudes can wreck a game from the interior just as much as Bosa, Watt, Garrett can outside.

So when Nelson comes along and makes the impact he did, despite going against conventional thought, he was worth taking at #6 and worth paying to keep. He reset the market so he's close, but still behind the top LT's money.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Guessing the quote about Scott was more about him being the most versatile since he could play multiple OL spots. Glenn and Saturday were definitely the best OL we had in the Peyton era. I just remember back then us plugging in whoever at LG: 7th rounders, UDFAs, guys signed to the practice squad the week before, and it was fine. I'm sure Peyton had a lot to do with that, but Glenn did as well.

I wish I could remember where I read that because it was such a long time ago. It stuck with me because I wouldn't have expected to hear that. Not important because I'm not knocking Glenn at all.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Also, I never suggested that Nelson should have been moved to LT. If he was able to do that it probably would have happened well before now.

I didn't mean to imply you suggested it. Just saying Pryor would have been exploited anywhere on the line. Nelson could have faired better at LT than Pryor, but Pryor would still be beaten inside and Matt Crisco Fingers Ryan would've fumbled again and we'd lose.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

This proves my point, or at least the point I was trying to make. If your LT sucks then your OL is in all likelihood going to suck. Ballard overspent at the less critical position and therefore (at least in his mind) he had to go cheap at LT. And it was an epic fucking disaster.

For this line I think the LT is a lynchpin, I’ve been saying that a long time since Castonzo first got hurt. But the plan was always to draft a long term replacement at LT. They had a stopgap vet who wasn’t that good for a year then they tried an athlete who couldn’t adjust. But the hope was always a rookie to come in and fill it. You kind of have to with the money going to other positions. Then I expect when it comes time for Raimann’s second contract we will move to rookies at other spots. Yeah the stop gap didn’t work, we all know this. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sign Nelson, nor does it mean he doesn’t value LT. He just doesn’t value a high priced older bet at LT, if they could have even signed Williams who was pretty much the only one available.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

It's not really a cliche, it's a fact that unless you have a left handed QB LT is the most important position on the OL. Not only is he protecting the QBs blind side, but he's typically going up against the other teams best pass rusher.

Guessing the quote about Scott was more about him being the most versatile since he could play multiple OL spots. Glenn and Saturday were definitely the best OL we had in the Peyton era. I just remember back then us plugging in whoever at LG: 7th rounders, UDFAs, guys signed to the practice squad the week before, and it was fine. I'm sure Peyton had a lot to do with that, but Glenn did as well.

Also, I never suggested that Nelson should have been moved to LT. If he was able to do that it probably would have happened well before now.

The Oline for Manning could move positions because thats how they were coached by Howard Mudd.

[ukcolt]

As important as having top tier talent on an offensive line, is having the absolute best offensive line coaches who can maximise each individual player to get the very most out of their skill set. If that then means you need to be going to the offensive co-ordinator and saying "stop calling that stupid play, we don't have the personnel to block that", then that might be as good as anything.

I am sure Strausser is a decent oline coach, but is he as good as Howard Mudd was? Does he command the level of respect from the rest of the coaches?