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  #41  
Old 06-18-2019, 04:18 PM
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Luck4Reich Luck4Reich is offline
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
Polian believed in a good center and strong tackles. He treated the guards as recyclable and would use low round picks on them. He did not find a tackle to replace Glenn. Poor left tackle play was mitigated by Manningís quick release. This was also a different time in oline play, teams could practice longer and work on technique. Today many oline attribute the decreased practice time from the CBA as the reason for decreased oline play across the league. Also may be why teams are spending higher picks for oline because they canít develop them like they used to.

However, I think Polianís olines were elevated by Manning. For years Manning was the highest hit QB in the league after release. I think itís what led to his injury and decline. Too many high picks spent on skill positions. But Polian believed in a design of having a big three on offense and a dominant pass rusher on defense.

Great point. People forget that Peyton got rid of the ball fast and his command of the playcalling made the olines look a lot better than they actually were.
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  #42  
Old 06-18-2019, 06:11 PM
YDFL Commish YDFL Commish is offline
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Let us not forget who gradually got more control within the Colts organization after the 2006 Championship.

I believe that had more to do with the poor drafting than any other factor.
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  #43  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:43 PM
GoBigBlue88 GoBigBlue88 is offline
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This is incredible, if anyone missed it today:

https://www.albertbridgecapital.com/...ay-in-the-game

My best friend is basically this guy's kid. Powerful read. I really felt this one. Forever a K-Mo fan.
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  #44  
Old 06-18-2019, 09:09 PM
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This is incredible, if anyone missed it today:

https://www.albertbridgecapital.com/...ay-in-the-game

My best friend is basically this guy's kid. Powerful read. I really felt this one. Forever a K-Mo fan.
As a dog lover, I can really relate to this story. I have been through some down times like we all have but my dogs always keep me in the game.
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  #45  
Old 06-18-2019, 10:04 PM
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Polian's problem is that he didn't have a successor plan in place for the OL. In the early 2000s it was a great line. Tarik Glenn, Saturday, Scott, Diem, Lilja, DeMulling, all in their prime. By 2010, if not sooner, Lilja, Diem, and Saturday were getting old, Glenn, Scott, Peko and DeMulling were gone - and we didn't have guys waiting in the wings to take over. Hell, it wasn't until Castonzo was picked that they even found a replacement for Glenn. That was about a 4 year gap of failures.

Various starters on that line in the last 5-6 years of Polian's tenure:

Mike Pollack, Charlie Johnson (was good depth but never a true starter), Kyle Devan, Tony Ugoh, Jeff Linkenbach, Joe Reitz (another good depth but never a true starter).

And all these guys actually started. Look at the depth chart:

Seth Olsen, Mike Tepper, Quinn Ojinakka, Michael Toudouze, Jamey Richard, Jaimie Thomas, Jacques Mclendon.

I could go on, but if that isn't a depressing list of O-lineman, I don't know what is.
Great post...

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  #46  
Old 06-19-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
Polian believed in a good center and strong tackles. He treated the guards as recyclable and would use low round picks on them. He did not find a tackle to replace Glenn. Poor left tackle play was mitigated by Manningís quick release. This was also a different time in oline play, teams could practice longer and work on technique. Today many oline attribute the decreased practice time from the CBA as the reason for decreased oline play across the league. Also may be why teams are spending higher picks for oline because they canít develop them like they used to.

However, I think Polianís olines were elevated by Manning. For years Manning was the highest hit QB in the league after release. I think itís what led to his injury and decline. Too many high picks spent on skill positions. But Polian believed in a design of having a big three on offense and a dominant pass rusher on defense.
Yeah he did. He drafted Costanzo. He also drafted Charlie Johnson, who played for the Colts and then they lost him in free agency, cap problems.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnCh23.htm


Part of it was the cap, part of it was Howard Mudd. He could work with guys like Llija and ________ and make them searvicable. But he drafted Jake Scott and we lost him to free agency. Polian was working with a tighter cap and he made his own problems when he hit on so many players.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/draft.htm


And remember, all that winning kept putting the Colts at the back end of the draft year after year. He hit on a bunch of late round guys who played long careers. Go look at the list. He had guys who were lost to free agency who played a long time. If there was a "failure", they should have let some guys go sooner than later, and kept the young guys.
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  #47  
Old 06-19-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Luck4Reich View Post
I'm not dismissing the great things Polian did. More could have been done on defense. I just wish we would have won more SBs.. was that all on Polian? Absolutely not. I just feel Ballard is placing more emphasis in that area so far. We will see if it ends in more SBs.
Like Jerry Hughes? A douche bag here, and he figgured out if he didn't get his butt in gear he was out of the league after the Colts let him go. Its' a crap shoot on the draft. Antone Bethea is still playing, and he was a 6th rounder?
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  #48  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:21 AM
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Like Jerry Hughes? A douche bag here, and he figgured out if he didn't get his butt in gear he was out of the league after the Colts let him go. Its' a crap shoot on the draft. Antone Bethea is still playing, and he was a 6th rounder?
Every team has to decide what to emphasize. Where to invest the limited resources they have. Polian chose to play to Manningís strengths - skill position players on O and a D that was designed to play with a lead. On the surface it makes some sense. However the team would have been better off to put resources into areas that would have allowed them to win when Manning wasnít brilliant. Building a D that didnít need a two touchdown lead to be at its best would be the best example. A stronger offensive line that could move the pile to get a yard when needed is another.

That change in philosophy needed to be made early in the building process. Once they started drafting at the bottom of every round and the cap space was tied up in the core of skill position players it became much harder to change the teams direction and identity. Iím thankful that, so far, Ballard doesnít appear to be repeating that mistake (although like a few others Iím a little worried about the size of the interior D line).
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  #49  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:16 AM
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Chromeburn Chromeburn is offline
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Yeah he did. He drafted Costanzo. He also drafted Charlie Johnson, who played for the Colts and then they lost him in free agency, cap problems.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnCh23.htm


Part of it was the cap, part of it was Howard Mudd. He could work with guys like Llija and ________ and make them searvicable. But he drafted Jake Scott and we lost him to free agency. Polian was working with a tighter cap and he made his own problems when he hit on so many players.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/draft.htm


And remember, all that winning kept putting the Colts at the back end of the draft year after year. He hit on a bunch of late round guys who played long careers. Go look at the list. He had guys who were lost to free agency who played a long time. If there was a "failure", they should have let some guys go sooner than later, and kept the young guys.
Castonzo was drafted by his son and they were on their way out because they couldn’t fill those talent holes that they used to. Also Castonzo was just ok early in his career, not exactly a pass blocking prodigy. I think he was a poor fit for that system. Johnson was serviceable, and really did little once he moved on. Remember Ugoh beat him out initially for the job, Ugoh actually looked pretty good very early on then declined rapidly. Johnson benefited from Manning’s play, and was really on the field because he was the only one healthy.

As for the other stuff, doesn’t really change anything I said.

Last edited by Chromeburn; 06-19-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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  #50  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
Castonzo was drafted by his son and they were on their way out because they couldnít fill those talent holes that they used to. Also Castonzo was just ok early in his career, not exactly a pass blocking prodigy. I think he was a poor fit for that system. Johnson was serviceable, and really did little once he moved on. Remember Ugoh beat him out initially for the job, Ugoh actually looked pretty good very early on then declined rapidly. Johnson benefited from Manningís play, and was really on the field because he was the only one healthy.

As for the other stuff, doesnít really change anything I said.
Polian was in charge, and took the blame.
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