Andrew and the Hall Of Fame

[Mr. Session]

Warner also has a better story.

I'd put $ on him being a better leader too, when it's all said and done.

I never thought Luck really had the right attitude for this.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Terrell Davis' career and subsequent Hall-of-Fame induction was similar to that of Gale Sayers ...... Sayers had 4 and-a-half incredible seasons for the Chicago Bears from 1965 through 1968 before injuries curtailed his career.


In addition to his exploits as a running back, Sayers was arguably the greatest punt-returner l AND l kick-returner of all time.

Terrell Davis never returned kicks and punts like Sayers did, but he did win 2 Super Bowls, one of which he was the MVP of ...... that said, Davis clearly had a better quarterback, better offenses, and much better overall teams to play on than Sayers did in his prime with the Bears.

o

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o
Kurt Warner's induction was not based on just 3 years. In addition to the 3 through-the-roof seasons that he had with the Rams from 1999 through 2001 (2 of which ended in Super Bowl appearances), he also led the Arizona Cardinals to their first world championship/Super Bowl appearance since they were the Chicago Cardinals in 1948
o

Well, the three years I'm referring to are 1999, 2001, and 2008. In 2000, he missed 5 games, threw 21tds and 18ints, and they lost in the WC so I tend to omit it as memorable (also worth noting that Trent Green came in during his injury and was throwing for 334yds a game which I think is a testament to that overall offensive team/coaching staff).

1999 was memorable because it was a tremendous MVP/SB year with the story. 2001 was another MVP year, despite 22 interceptions, ending in a SB loss. 2008 had no MVP or SB win, but again had the story with that playoff run.

Majority of the rest of his career wasn't just a case of not living up to those years... they were bad. In 2002, Warner went 0-6. Marc Bulger, who would ultimately take Warner's job, went 6-1 that same year (his one loss was a game where he left the game after one pass and Warner played, so honestly Warner was 0-7 and Bulger was 6-0).

'04 with NYG he had 6tds, 4ints, 12 fumbles in 9 games before Eli took over and then he becomes totally irrelevant until that 2008 playoff run.

And why was 2008 such a Cinderella story? A.) Because Warner had become so irrelevant in the first place... and B.) The Cardinals were a meh 9-7 team that got into the playoffs by winning an awful NFC West division.

His final season in '09 was fine. Medicore stats, but got a WC win. All good, but we're talking about what got him into the HOF and this was a blip at best.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Mr. Session

Warner also has a better story.

I'd put $ on him being a better leader too, when it's all said and done.

I never thought Luck really had the right attitude for this.

Despite my post above tearing into his resumé, I actually quite like Kurt Warner as a dude. I really like his story. I even like him on TV.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o

Terrell Davis never returned kicks and punts like Sayers did, but he did win 2 Super Bowls, one of which he was the MVP of ...... that said, Davis clearly had a better quarterback, better offenses, and much better overall teams to play on than Sayers did in his prime with the Bears.

o

Davis is romanticized as being the key to getting Elway over the hump and finally winning a SB. He was the focal point of those back-to-back championship offenses. I've even read compelling arguments for the 1998 Broncos (Davis' MVP year) being the best offense of all time (not that I agree with that, but a deep dive is certainly compelling).

I get the argument and I do understand the concept of a true star burning twice as bright for half as long... I just have a hard time stacking up four seasons against fellow HOF resumé's.

[Brylok]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Davis is romanticized as being the key to getting Elway over the hump and finally winning a SB.

He and his mom had those Campbell's chunky soup commercials, too. Was a household name for a while.

[YDFL Commish]

Originally Posted by Brylok

He and his mom had those Campbell's chunky soup commercials, too. Was a household name for a while.

What was odd about those is his mom looked like she should be his wife and his wife looked like she should be his mom.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Well, the three years I'm referring to are 1999, 2001, and 2008. In 2000, he missed 5 games, threw 21tds and 18ints, and they lost in the WC so I tend to omit it as memorable (also worth noting that Trent Green came in during his injury and was throwing for 334yds a game which I think is a testament to that overall offensive team/coaching staff).

1999 was memorable because it was a tremendous MVP/SB year with the story. 2001 was another MVP year, despite 22 interceptions, ending in a SB loss. 2008 had no MVP or SB win, but again had the story with that playoff run.

Majority of the rest of his career wasn't just a case of not living up to those years... they were bad. In 2002, Warner went 0-6. Marc Bulger, who would ultimately take Warner's job, went 6-1 that same year (his one loss was a game where he left the game after one pass and Warner played, so honestly Warner was 0-7 and Bulger was 6-0).

'04 with NYG he had 6tds, 4ints, 12 fumbles in 9 games before Eli took over and then he becomes totally irrelevant until that 2008 playoff run.

And why was 2008 such a Cinderella story? A.) Because Warner had become so irrelevant in the first place... and B.) The Cardinals were a meh 9-7 team that got into the playoffs by winning an awful NFC West division.

His final season in '09 was fine. Medicore stats, but got a WC win. All good, but we're talking about what got him into the HOF and this was a blip at best.

o


In his last 3 seasons with the Cardinals, Warner had stats of 27-17 TD/INT, 30/14 TD, INT, and 26/14 TD INt. The QB ratings inn those seasons were 89.8, 96.9, and 93.2. I wouldn't call any of them bad, or even mediocre. Also, with the Giants, they were 5-4 with Warner, and 1-6 with rookie Manning ...... Warner had a mediocre Giants team in contention for a playoff spot before they decided to bench him and go with their future QB.

The 2008 team was a Cinderella team because they made it to the Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history, and to the world championship game for the first time since 1948 when they were the Chicago Cardinals, not because Warner had become irrelevant in the first place.

Warner didn't even get a full season with the Giants ...... when he got a legitimate chance with another team (the Cardinals), he flourished in the regular season and in the post-season. He had to wait until Matt Leinart failed in 2006 before taking the reigns (successfully) of the team in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

o

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles

o


In his last 3 seasons with the Cardinals, Warner had stats of 27-17 TD/INT, 30/14 TD, INT, and 26/14 TD INt. The QB ratings inn those seasons were 89.8, 96.9, and 93.2. I wouldn't call any of them bad, or even mediocre. Also, with the Giants, they were 5-4 with Warner, and 1-6 with rookie Manning ...... Warner had a mediocre Giants team in contention for a playoff spot before they decided to bench him and go with their future QB.

The 2008 team was a Cinderella team because they made it to the Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history, and to the world championship game for the first time since 1948 when they were the Chicago Cardinals, not because Warner had become irrelevant in the first place.

Warner didn't even get a full season with the Giants ...... when he got a legitimate chance with another team (the Cardinals), he flourished in the regular season and in the post-season. He had to wait until Matt Leinart failed in 2006 before taking the reigns (successfully) of the team in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

o

-I mean, we're talking about the Hall of Fame. I don't know that going 5-4 before being benched for a rookie is a high claim. And don't forget... that was part of a six-year stretch where he posted a record of 13-30 before the 2008 season.

-I mentioned "mediocre" regarding his last season which I don't think is unfair. Quick glance shows he was 12th in pass yards, 12th in touchdowns, and 12th in QBR. Maybe not textbook, but in the context of discussing the HOF, I think it's fair.

-As far as the Cinderella story, sure the first appearance is part of that. But we can't deny how much of a big deal was made about Warner's return to prominence. And we all know from the '95 Colts that everybody loves the underdog story...

...So when the 9-7 Cardinals knock off the 11-5 Falcons, 12-4 Panthers, and take the 12-4 Steelers to the limit in the SB... that's the definition of Cinderella story.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

-I mean, we're talking about the Hall of Fame. I don't know that going 5-4 before being benched for a rookie is a high claim.

o


Being benched was not a sign of Warner's ineptness, but rather a sign that the Giants were choosing to go in a new direction. The fact that he had 3 very good seasons with the Cardinals after that, including a run to the Super Bowl vindicates Warner rather than justifies the Giants' decision to throw the towel in on that season and go with the rookie because of his youth and the team's long-term objectives.

o

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

-As far as the Cinderella story, sure the first appearance is part of that. But we can't deny how much of a big deal was made about Warner's return to prominence. And we all know from the '95 Colts that everybody loves the underdog story...

...So when the 9-7 Cardinals knock off the 11-5 Falcons, 12-4 Panthers, and take the 12-4 Steelers to the limit in the SB... that's the definition of Cinderella story.

o


Warner's reappearance to prominence with a new team is evidence that he was not a one-hit wonder with the Rams ...... more significantly, that run would not have happened without Warner, as he led the charge.

o