Free Agents Discussion

[Maniac]

Originally Posted by sherck

I think that the whole theory of "holding back" on free agency because of a potential new coach is not true at all. While we may be getting a new coach next year (I hope), Ballard has repeatedly told us that "you build through the draft" and that you cannot shortchange that process.

Someone said it earlier, free agency gets you short-term stability but drafting well gives you long-term success.

Grigson built a solid enough team through free agency to get us to three back-to-back-to-back 11-5 season but his terrible drafting then did not deliver long-term success (Werner, Richardson, D'Journ Smith, Dorsett).

You spend a wad on free agency to push you over the top. You don't spend it to get up to stable; you instead sign a bunch of guys who are NFL average or perhaps a bit better than that in lots of position groups and wait to find difference makers in the draft or by developing and retaining your own.

I think someone else's comment recently about how the rising salary cap allows teams to retain their own superstars better and I agree 100% with that.

IMO, there were 5 defensive "difference makers" in free agency that fit a 3-4 defensive scheme: Dontari Poe, Calais Campbell, Dont'a Hightower, Stephon Gilmore and A.J. Bouye. You could probably add Brandon Williams to that list but I don't know if he was a true difference maker.

Poe's best years may be behind him; his production has dropped since his 2014 season and he obviously wanted a lot of money and/or to play for a team much closer to being a contender. Currently, he is rep and not production. We had him in, we offered him what was probably a good long-term contract and he chose elsewhere. It happens.

Campbell is 30 years old. Spending $15m a year on a 30 year old defender is foolish.

Both Bouye and Gilmore would have been good signings, IMO. Davis is in his contract year and we obviously needed a CB2 this year that could become CB1 next year. I would have been good with signing one of them but that also would have contradicted Ballard's "you build up front" concept.

Williams? $10.5m a year to do what he does? Okay, it would have been great to get a NT of his caliber on 1st and 2nd downs but he bring little to the pass rush area and he is getting paid pass rush money. His cap hit is "cheap" at $6m a year but is $11.75m $11.75m, and $12.00m in the final 3 years. No thanks.

Zach Brown? 2 year starter in a 4-3 defense followed by 2 years of injury and little play followed by 2016 where he killed it. Sure-fire difference maker?

Chris Baker? Logan Ryan? Tony Jefferson? Who else was a difference maker?



Lots of folks are complaining not so much about what Ballard has done but moreso that we did not sign "one impact guy" on defense.

Which of those guys would you have spent the money on? We tried Poe and it did not work. Perhaps one of the CBs would have been good given our situation but Ballard obviously did not want the pay that money at the back end yet.

Anyway, I agree that we did not "throw" free agency due to an upcoming coaching change. This appears to be Ballard's plan.

Draft the top 1/3 of your roster
Free Agent the middle 1/3 of your roster
Fill in UDFA/Street the bottom 1/3 of your roster

Cheers,

Excellent post!

[Maniac]

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88

Now Aiken is a signing I can get a little excited about. Buying low on decent upside WR who was limited by Joe Flacco's Captain Checkdown offense. Really shined in 2015. Down year (in line w/ Flacco's down year) in 2016. But if you ask any Ravens fan or really even watch any highlights package, this guy is a red zone/possession ace. He's not gonna burn you with speed (Colts have enough of those guys), but strong hands and big, athletic frame.

He's a guy who should help out the Colts a ton in the red zone and in 3rd down packages.

I agree. I really like the Aiken signing.

[Puck]

I really wish they would bring in Jared Odrick. He was playing well until he hurt his elbow last yr. Could be a great upgrade at DE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMC0cvucTok

[sherck]

Colts WRs:
5 seasons / 78 games played / 57 games started / 649 targets / 374 receptions / 57.6% catch rate / 5,861 yards / 15.7 average / 30 TD / 5’10”, 183 lbs / T.Y. Hilton
5 seasons / 51 games played / 20 games started / 209 targets / 128 receptions / 61.2% catch rate / 1,539 yards / 12.0 average / 09 TD / 6’02”, 213 lbs / Kamar Aiken
3 seasons / 41 games played / 19 games started / 210 targets / 126 receptions / 60.0% catch rate / 1,484 yards / 11.8 average / 16 TD / 6’02”, 221 lbs / Donte Moncrief
2 seasons / 26 games played / 07 games started / 098 targets / 051 receptions / 52.0% catch rate / 0,753 yards / 14.8 average / 03 TD / 5’10”, 183 lbs / Phillip Dorsett
1 seasons / 14 games played / 02 games started / 034 targets / 019 receptions / 55.9% catch rate / 0,273 yards / 14.4 average / 00 TD / 6’01”, 187 lbs / Chester Rogers

Colts TEs:
4 seasons / 63 games played / 21 games started / 118 targets / 094 receptions / 79.7% catch rate / 0,793 yards / 08.4 average / 08 TD / 6’05”, 254 lbs / Jack Doyle
4 seasons / 61 games played / 15 games started / 230 targets / 146 receptions / 63.5% catch rate / 1,413 yards / 09.7 average / 10 TD / 6’03”, 242 lbs / Mychal Rivera**
2 seasons / 17 games played / 04 games started / 022 targets / 015 receptions / 68.2% catch rate / 0,297 yards / 19.8 average / 01 TD / 6’05”, 246 lbs / Erik Swoope
4 seasons / 45 games played / 01 games started / 011 targets / 006 receptions / 54.5% catch rate / 0,080 yards / 13.3 average / 00 TD / 6’04”, 255 lbs / B. Williams

** Obviously, Rivera is not signed but those are his stats showing that he has about the same play time as Doyle and has been thrown at a WHOLE lot more than Doyle was.

[NOTE: I am NOT saying that Aiken is WR2. That is Moncrief's job to lose. I am saying that Aiken has a nice amount of playing experience when compared to our other WRs not named Hilton.]

That would be a pretty nice pass catching group for Andrew in 2017. Young, but nice. No need for any attention at WR or TE unless BPA is just too unbelievable.

Cheers,

[sherck]

Originally Posted by Puck

I really wish they would bring in Jared Odrick. He was playing well until he hurt his elbow last yr. Could be a great upgrade at DE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMC0cvucTok

The main issue being is that he has only ever played as a 4-3 Undertackle playing in a 1-gap system both at MIA and JAX.

I am not positive that his skills translate into a 3-4 2-gap 5-tech DE well.

Cheers,

[VeveJones007]

Originally Posted by sherck

I think that the whole theory of "holding back" on free agency because of a potential new coach is not true at all. While we may be getting a new coach next year (I hope), Ballard has repeatedly told us that "you build through the draft" and that you cannot shortchange that process.

Someone said it earlier, free agency gets you short-term stability but drafting well gives you long-term success.

Grigson built a solid enough team through free agency to get us to three back-to-back-to-back 11-5 season but his terrible drafting then did not deliver long-term success (Werner, Richardson, D'Journ Smith, Dorsett).

You spend a wad on free agency to push you over the top. You don't spend it to get up to stable; you instead sign a bunch of guys who are NFL average or perhaps a bit better than that in lots of position groups and wait to find difference makers in the draft or by developing and retaining your own.

I think someone else's comment recently about how the rising salary cap allows teams to retain their own superstars better and I agree 100% with that.

IMO, there were 5 defensive "difference makers" in free agency that fit a 3-4 defensive scheme: Dontari Poe, Calais Campbell, Dont'a Hightower, Stephon Gilmore and A.J. Bouye. You could probably add Brandon Williams to that list but I don't know if he was a true difference maker.

Poe's best years may be behind him; his production has dropped since his 2014 season and he obviously wanted a lot of money and/or to play for a team much closer to being a contender. Currently, he is rep and not production. We had him in, we offered him what was probably a good long-term contract and he chose elsewhere. It happens.

Campbell is 30 years old. Spending $15m a year on a 30 year old defender is foolish.

Both Bouye and Gilmore would have been good signings, IMO. Davis is in his contract year and we obviously needed a CB2 this year that could become CB1 next year. I would have been good with signing one of them but that also would have contradicted Ballard's "you build up front" concept.

Williams? $10.5m a year to do what he does? Okay, it would have been great to get a NT of his caliber on 1st and 2nd downs but he bring little to the pass rush area and he is getting paid pass rush money. His cap hit is "cheap" at $6m a year but is $11.75m $11.75m, and $12.00m in the final 3 years. No thanks.

Zach Brown? 2 year starter in a 4-3 defense followed by 2 years of injury and little play followed by 2016 where he killed it. Sure-fire difference maker?

Chris Baker? Logan Ryan? Tony Jefferson? Who else was a difference maker?



Lots of folks are complaining not so much about what Ballard has done but moreso that we did not sign "one impact guy" on defense.

Which of those guys would you have spent the money on? We tried Poe and it did not work. Perhaps one of the CBs would have been good given our situation but Ballard obviously did not want the pay that money at the back end yet.

Anyway, I agree that we did not "throw" free agency due to an upcoming coaching change. This appears to be Ballard's plan.

Draft the top 1/3 of your roster
Free Agent the middle 1/3 of your roster
Fill in UDFA/Street the bottom 1/3 of your roster

Cheers,

FWIW, I agree with this. What you said here and what I've said in this thread are not mutually exclusive.

[Puck]

Originally Posted by sherck

The main issue being is that he has only ever played as a 4-3 Undertackle playing in a 1-gap system both at MIA and JAX.

I am not positive that his skills translate into a 3-4 2-gap 5-tech DE well.

Cheers,

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

FA DE Jared Odrick, who passed a physical on his #Patriots visit, is one to watch on if #Giants don’t get Hankins back. He’ll take visits


If he is possibly replacing Hankins he would fit...if we are interested in Hankins....


http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/Report...iants-51881071

[smitty46953]

Originally Posted by JesusChrist

I agree. I really like the Aiken signing.

He should be a good one with your blessing ...

[Wyatt]

@pfrumors
Linebacker Zach Brown Fires Agent http://www.profootballrumors.com/201...wn-fires-agent …

[sherck]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

@pfrumors
Linebacker Zach Brown Fires Agent http://www.profootballrumors.com/201...wn-fires-agent …

Brown: "Why am I not getting the money I want? I want Hightower money!"

Agent: "Well, the market softened. No one else is willing to pay that."

Brown: "Why am I not getting the money I want? I want Hightower money!"

Agent: "Ummm.....well, how about a one year prove it deal?"

Brown: "Why am I not getting the money I want? I want Hightower money!"

Agent: "Wait a minute. Is this a recording? The market softened!"

Brown: "Why am I not getting the money I want? I want Hightower money!"

Agent: "Gahhhhhh, I hate prima-donnas. Why do I get prima-donnas?"

Brown: "Your fired."

Agent: "Hello! Welcome to Sports Representation R Us! We are glad you are here."

Brown: "Why am I not getting the money I want? I want Hightower money!"






Cheers,