Free Agents Discussion

[Maniac]

Originally Posted by VeveJones007

Very true. Which is part of the reason why I believe Ballard signed stopgaps for this season. You don't shoot your wad now if you might bring in a new coach who wants to run a different scheme. You save that money for next offseason.

If that's true, then fire the moron already. I don't see someone intentionally signing average guys just to wait for the next head coach.

It was reported they tried to sign Poe, so it sounds like they DID try to go after at least one big name free agent. They may have tried to offer deals to others, we don't know what all is happening there.

[sherck]

Originally Posted by JesusChrist

If that's true, then fire the moron already. I don't see someone intentionally signing average guys just to wait for the next head coach.

It was reported they tried to sign Poe, so it sounds like they DID try to go after at least one big name free agent. They may have tried to offer deals to others, we don't know what all is happening there.

I think that the whole theory of "holding back" on free agency because of a potential new coach is not true at all. While we may be getting a new coach next year (I hope), Ballard has repeatedly told us that "you build through the draft" and that you cannot shortchange that process.

Someone said it earlier, free agency gets you short-term stability but drafting well gives you long-term success.

Grigson built a solid enough team through free agency to get us to three back-to-back-to-back 11-5 season but his terrible drafting then did not deliver long-term success (Werner, Richardson, D'Journ Smith, Dorsett).

You spend a wad on free agency to push you over the top. You don't spend it to get up to stable; you instead sign a bunch of guys who are NFL average or perhaps a bit better than that in lots of position groups and wait to find difference makers in the draft or by developing and retaining your own.

I think someone else's comment recently about how the rising salary cap allows teams to retain their own superstars better and I agree 100% with that.

IMO, there were 5 defensive "difference makers" in free agency that fit a 3-4 defensive scheme: Dontari Poe, Calais Campbell, Dont'a Hightower, Stephon Gilmore and A.J. Bouye. You could probably add Brandon Williams to that list but I don't know if he was a true difference maker.

Poe's best years may be behind him; his production has dropped since his 2014 season and he obviously wanted a lot of money and/or to play for a team much closer to being a contender. Currently, he is rep and not production. We had him in, we offered him what was probably a good long-term contract and he chose elsewhere. It happens.

Campbell is 30 years old. Spending $15m a year on a 30 year old defender is foolish.

Both Bouye and Gilmore would have been good signings, IMO. Davis is in his contract year and we obviously needed a CB2 this year that could become CB1 next year. I would have been good with signing one of them but that also would have contradicted Ballard's "you build up front" concept.

Williams? $10.5m a year to do what he does? Okay, it would have been great to get a NT of his caliber on 1st and 2nd downs but he bring little to the pass rush area and he is getting paid pass rush money. His cap hit is "cheap" at $6m a year but is $11.75m $11.75m, and $12.00m in the final 3 years. No thanks.

Zach Brown? 2 year starter in a 4-3 defense followed by 2 years of injury and little play followed by 2016 where he killed it. Sure-fire difference maker?

Chris Baker? Logan Ryan? Tony Jefferson? Who else was a difference maker?



Lots of folks are complaining not so much about what Ballard has done but moreso that we did not sign "one impact guy" on defense.

Which of those guys would you have spent the money on? We tried Poe and it did not work. Perhaps one of the CBs would have been good given our situation but Ballard obviously did not want the pay that money at the back end yet.

Anyway, I agree that we did not "throw" free agency due to an upcoming coaching change. This appears to be Ballard's plan.

Draft the top 1/3 of your roster
Free Agent the middle 1/3 of your roster
Fill in UDFA/Street the bottom 1/3 of your roster

Cheers,

[sherck]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

@PSchrags
Free agent TE Mychal Rivera is leaving his visit with Jets without signing a deal. Will visit with the Colts in Indy next. @gmfb @NFLonFOX

I like him. 6th round draft pick of the Raiders in 2013. In 4 seasons:

61 games played / 15 games started / 230 targets / 146 receptions / 63.5% catch rate / 1,413 receiving yards / 10 TD

It appears that he played extensively in his first two years with his 2nd season in 2014 being tops in being targeted 99 times. His targets, however, dropped to 46 in 2015 and only 25 in 2016. This blog from Raiders land tells the tale:

2014 was also a good year for Rivera, the first one with Derek Carr at the helm. Again, Rivera played in all 16 games, finishing with 58 receptions for 534 yards and 4 TDs, while maintaining a quality average at 9.2 yards per catch.

But Rivera has always had a flaw, which can be fatal for a tight end — poor blocking. And then things started to go south for him in 2015 when the Raiders drafted Clive Walford. At 6’4″ and 250 pounds, Walford was supposed to be a much better blocker than Rivera while having similar receiving ability.

At the same time, alongside Walford, the Raiders brought in Lee Smith, a primarily blocking tight end, but a damn good one at that.

Lee quickly took over the starting job — particularly due to Jack Del Rio’s willingness to run the ball more — and Walford was plugged in passing situations. Rivera was the odd man out, fading into darkness. He finished that year with 32 receptions, 280 years and a single TD — much lower numbers compared to his rookie year stats.

This trend continued into 2016. Rivera wasn’t even active in multiple games, which was a really bad sign. But a season-ending injury to Smith opened the door for Rivera at least to suit up on game days again. Walford was still the starting tight end, but he did not pan out the way the Raiders hoped.

Our TE coaches have shown that they can develop TEs. Both Doyle and Swoope have come a long way over the past couple of seasons.

Rivera sounds like a guy that has the ability to succeed, he just needs the coaching and the change to do so. With the Colts playing a lot of 2TE sets, he will get the chance here.

Sign him and the Colts have zero need to look at TE in the draft. The other free agent we signed, Brandon Williams, sounds much more like a Special Teams guy that someone who we think can develop into an offensive weapon. I don't mind him as TE4 but I would like Rivera much better as battling for TE2 duties with Swoope.

Cheers,

[Offensive Lineman]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

"You have to build through the draft"

Doesn't mean you can't sign a difference maker in free agency. Not sure why people can't figure this out

It seems to me that by upgrading positions of need to just NFL average skill - when those positions were manned by less than average talent (unless you want to argue that Trent Cole is a better player than John Simon) - you are in fact signing 'impact' players because they will raise the overall talent level of the team. They are not 'name' impact players, I grant you that. But they are experienced players that still have upside that are looking to make a bigger contribution than they were making with their old teams, so I would expect the overall competition level to ratchet up quite a bit, thus making an 'impact'. Would I have loved to land a corner like Bouye? Absolutely. But not at the expense of being unable to address the many needs our talent deficient roster had. The sort of impact player you are looking for is found through the draft. That's where Ballard's strategy will be won or lost, not because some big dollar FA didn't sign here. Just my thought anyway.

[FatDT]

Originally Posted by sherck

IMO, there were 5 defensive "difference makers" in free agency that fit a 3-4 defensive scheme: Dontari Poe, Calais Campbell, Dont'a Hightower, Stephon Gilmore and A.J. Bouye. You could probably add Brandon Williams to that list but I don't know if he was a true difference maker.

I wouldn't even put Bouye on that list. He's a one year starter in a contract year. Reminds me of Alteraun Verner. Tried hard for a year when opposing teams weren't expecting him to be any good. I doubt he ends up worth the contract Jacksonville gave him.

From what I've read/heard Hightower went to see other teams so he could come back to NE with a market-set price to agree on. He never wanted to leave. The Jets offered him $2M more per year than he got with the Pats. He was never going to sign here.

[Puck]

I think it goes back to what I said a while back. Your draft picks take a yr or two to get up to NFL readiness.... not all of them i.e. Kelly... but for the most part as you have players hit FA you have players behind them that were drafted to take their spots. But because of the terrible drafting/draft class of 2013 and poor decision making by Grigson for the most part, there isn't any of those guys to step up so we have to add a lot of players in a lot of positions with this FA period to fill voids. Then you can start building through the draft.

Contrary to what everyone thinks we are not that far off from winning the division. Save a couple of stupid coaching decisions and we win that division last yr.

I think Simon is going to be very good. I like the Spence signing maybe more than most of you do. And I think Sheard and even Mingo will be good transition players to give the draft picks time to develope.

[Puck]

Originally Posted by JesusChrist

If that's true, then fire the moron already. I don't see someone intentionally signing average guys just to wait for the next head coach.

It was reported they tried to sign Poe, so it sounds like they DID try to go after at least one big name free agent. They may have tried to offer deals to others, we don't know what all is happening there.

If he is waiting then this is just dumb. The team is being built for a Pagano D and if they have any thoughts of changing that could mean an entire rebuild in a different direction next yr.

I don't' think they have any plans to get rid of Pagano..... until he starts the bad game management BS again this yr.

[Wyatt]

@RapSheet
Former #Ravens WR Kamar Aiken is expected to sign with the #Colts, source said. A forgotten man in Baltimore with a new home.

[GoBigBlue88]

Now Aiken is a signing I can get a little excited about. Buying low on decent upside WR who was limited by Joe Flacco's Captain Checkdown offense. Really shined in 2015. Down year (in line w/ Flacco's down year) in 2016. But if you ask any Ravens fan or really even watch any highlights package, this guy is a red zone/possession ace. He's not gonna burn you with speed (Colts have enough of those guys), but strong hands and big, athletic frame.

He's a guy who should help out the Colts a ton in the red zone and in 3rd down packages.

[HoosierinFL]

Aiken is by far the best free agent WR we've ever brought in, that I can remember.
Grigson's guys were all problematic in various ways or had been injured. Avery, DHB, that other guy. Aiken is starter level who was def just a forgotten guy in Baltimore.