OFFICIAL GAME THREAD: Win the Game, Make the Playoffs (vs. TEXANS, 1/06)

[IndyNorm]

I'll take that as a concession that there's no argument to be had there.

You were just harping, so I didn't feel like it needed much of a response. But since you insist: it's stupid to say that Ballard was wrong on his evaluation after 1 season. With a raw talent like AR you need to give him 2-3 years to develop before making an accurate comparison. Also, when the proper time comes you just can't compare Stroud vs. AR. You need to compare Stroud vs. AR, Brents, Ade, at least our 2nd round pick from '24 (if not our first), and possibly someone like ~MPJ.

The entire 2021 QB class appears to be a bust. Given that Mac Jones was a Ja'Marr Chase 3 TD performance against the Chiefs away from the OROY, I think his failure probably had more to do with his team screwing up his development than the guy who couldn't read defenses coming in and still can't. As for Wilson, I said at the time he needed a redshirt year and that starting him immediately risked ruining his development, but the Jets are gonna Jets.

LOL seriously? If the Jets had listened to you then Wilson would have turned out ok? Do you really not know how ridiculous these type of comments are?

As for Mac Jones - granted I didn't watch the Cheats much this year, but he sure as shit didn't know how to read a defense when they played us. Also, it wasn't just Chase's late year push that factored into Jones not winning OROY. Jones sucked down the stretch his rookie year, which very much foreshadowed things to come.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt (as well stated by omaha) and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard. Let me give you an example: I at one point agreed with you that the Colts should have traded up to draft Mac Jones instead of drafting Paye. I was clearly wrong about that.

I imagine that most draft experts and the football watching population in general are feeling toward Lawrence the way Obi-Wan felt toward Anakin on Mustafar. "You were the Chosen One!" That was certainly the way he was talked about in the leadup to the draft. He wasn't then and still isn't.

Those draft "experts" get paid to make statements like that. You don't. As far as general fans go I don't think anyone outside of Jagoffs and Clemson fans are too upset that Lawrence regressed this year and might not pan out.

Like I said before: you need to quit letting him live inside your head rent free.

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.

This is total BS. There are plenty of us on here (myself included) who stated that we didn't want the Colts to draft Young b/c of his size.

Sure, I said at the time that his height was a significant risk factor that he could potentially fail in the NFL. The risk factors of a player aren't listed for fun, it's typically a "if he fails, here's why" list. Because it's not an exact science, and even the best GMs get it wrong 50% of the time.

You may have stated his size was a risk factor, but you were still high on him.

The narrative on AR currently is he shows a lot of promise, but can't stay healthy enough to even finish a game, and had his season ended after 5 of 17. Hopefully he can change that to "he fulfilled the promise he showed and finished all 17 games" next season. I don't necessarily want the Colts to give up on Richardson, but I wouldn't pass on Joe Burrow just because I already had Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not saying Daniels is Burrow or Richardson is Bridgewater, I just wouldn't pass on drafting a franchise QB if one was presented to me unless I already knew I had a franchise QB.

That's your narrative. Most of us on here are pretty optimistic now with AR's shoulder being repaired and hopefully some focus on him avoiding big hits where possible that he'll stay healthy.

Also, if the Colts do indeed draft another QB in the 1st round this year it means they have given up on AR. It's not that hard to figure out. We all know that they won't do this though, so there's really no point in speculating on it.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

me me me

I I I


do you even know how much of a cunt you sound like all the time.

I really wish we could hit the thanks button multiple times, b/c this post definitely deserves multiple thanks.

[Racehorse]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

I really wish we could hit the thanks button multiple times, b/c this post definitely deserves multiple thanks.

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

[Spike]

Dam, there was a poll done on this board, and only 1 individual voted for Bryce Young, Only 1.

Most votes were for Stroud or AR. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by Spike

Dam, there was a poll done on this board, and only 1 individual voted for Bryce Young ...... only 1.

Most votes were for Stroud or Richardson ...... but hey, don't let facts get in your way.

o


Anthony Richardson llll),, - 10 ltt Votes

C.J. Stroud llllllllllllllllllllllllll - 3 lllll Votes

Will Levis llllllllllllllllllllllllllllt - 3 lllll Votes

Bryce Young llllllllllllllllllllllll - 1 lllll Votes

Trade Back lllllllllllllllllllllllllt - 1 llllt Votes

Hendon Hooker lllllllllllllllllt - 0 llll, Votes



http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161298

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[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Racehorse

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

No doubt. When he steps away from obsessing over his latest man crush he makes some good points and is pretty insightful.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by omahacolt

me me me

I I I


do you even know how much of a cunt you sound like all the time.

There's only one perspective any of us have. Can't say what your perspective or anyone else's is. Mine is that a franchise QB was there for the taking and Ballard did not move heaven and earth to get him as he promised.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

You were just harping, so I didn't feel like it needed much of a response. But since you insist: it's stupid to say that Ballard was wrong on his evaluation after 1 season. With a raw talent like AR you need to give him 2-3 years to develop before making an accurate comparison. Also, when the proper time comes you just can't compare Stroud vs. AR. You need to compare Stroud vs. AR, Brents, Ade, at least our 2nd round pick from '24 (if not our first), and possibly someone like ~MPJ.

How do you think Chiefs fans feel about not having a 2018 1st round draft pick? Do you think they care?

Barring injury, C.J. Stroud is well on his way to being a franchise QB, and he's not a Colt. I think we can agree on those things at the very least. You don't have to be frustrated about that, but I am. I'd rather have the sure thing than the chance.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

LOL seriously? If the Jets had listened to you then Wilson would have turned out ok? Do you really not know how ridiculous these type of comments are?

Each player is different and it's not really possible to know what development path will work best for each one. That said, clearly throwing him into the fire didn't work out for the Jets and Zach Wilson. Does that mean a redshirt year would've turned Zach Wilson into a world beater franchise QB? Not necessarily, but Patrick Mahomes credits his redshirt year with allowing him to be the QB he is today. I do wonder what would've happened with Wilson had he been given that redshirt year, but we'll never really know now.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

As for Mac Jones - granted I didn't watch the Cheats much this year, but he sure as shit didn't know how to read a defense when they played us. Also, it wasn't just Chase's late year push that factored into Jones not winning OROY. Jones sucked down the stretch his rookie year, which very much foreshadowed things to come.

Mac Jones had 3 OCs in 3 years, one of which made his name in the NFL as a DC. Everything that Belicheat did to aid Tom Brady's development, he did AT LEAST that much to destroy Mac Jones's development. Jones would've been better off in literally any other situation, and might be a better version of Brock Purdy had the 49ers actually drafted him.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Just be a man instead of a little cunt (as well stated by omaha) and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard. Let me give you an example: I at one point agreed with you that the Colts should have traded up to draft Mac Jones instead of drafting Paye. I was clearly wrong about that.

Everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class, I said that already. The previous two paragraphs I feel are far more interesting discussion than the above sentence.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Those draft "experts" get paid to make statements like that. You don't. As far as general fans go I don't think anyone outside of Jagoffs and Clemson fans are too upset that Lawrence regressed this year and might not pan out.

Like I said before: you need to quit letting him live inside your head rent free.

He doesn't, but as several people here said at the time, it was a pretty bold call to call Lawrence a bust at the time he was being anointed as the future of the NFL. I think getting things like that right when going against all conventional wisdom lends credibility to my evaluations going forward.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

This is total BS. There are plenty of us on here (myself included) who stated that we didn't want the Colts to draft Young b/c of his size.

That particular part was about rankings. Most had Young ahead of Stroud in rankings.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

You may have stated his size was a risk factor, but you were still high on him.

I still think his poise, accuracy, and ability to improvise give him a chance to succeed and his size gives him a chance to fail. He appears to be hampered by a less than ideal organizational situation as well.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

That's your narrative. Most of us on here are pretty optimistic now with AR's shoulder being repaired and hopefully some focus on him avoiding big hits where possible that he'll stay healthy.

Yes, it's a chance. A damn near guarantee was passed up for a chance.

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Also, if the Colts do indeed draft another QB in the 1st round this year it means they have given up on AR. It's not that hard to figure out. We all know that they won't do this though, so there's really no point in speculating on it.

Daniels likely won't be there at 15, so the point is probably moot, like I already said and it seems you agree. I also haven't watched enough film of him yet to have a real opinion on Daniels, I just very much like what I've seen so far.

Originally Posted by Racehorse

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

I appreciate the compliment portion, but I'm not going to "admit" I'm wrong if I don't feel I am (Yes, lots of "I" there, don't know another way to express the point). You know what I will say I was wrong about? Taylor's fumble problem negating most of his value. I still hate fumbles from RBs, but Taylor has reduced his fumbling quite a bit in the NFL and he produces far too much positive value for it to be negated by his fumbles, especially considering how much less he's done it in the NFL.

Originally Posted by Spike

Dam, there was a poll done on this board, and only 1 individual voted for Bryce Young, Only 1.

Most votes were for Stroud or AR. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

Let's be real, as C & O already illustrated, most votes were for Richardson. Only 3 votes (including my own) were for Stroud. Levis got as many votes as Stroud. Most were also likely taking draft position into consideration when they voted. So I don't think that was as representative of "Which QB do you want?" as it was "Which QB do you want at 4?" I did not make that consideration in my vote, as I believed Ballard was correct when he said that if a franchise QB was available, heaven and earth should be moved to get him.

[IndyNorm]

How do you think Chiefs fans feel about not having a 2018 1st round draft pick? Do you think they care?

Barring injury, C.J. Stroud is well on his way to being a franchise QB, and he's not a Colt. I think we can agree on those things at the very least. You don't have to be frustrated about that, but I am. I'd rather have the sure thing than the chance.

No doubt, Stroud looks like the real deal. But again, you can't determine if Ballard made the right move or not until a couple years down the road.

Each player is different and it's not really possible to know what development path will work best for each one. That said, clearly throwing him into the fire didn't work out for the Jets and Zach Wilson. Does that mean a redshirt year would've turned Zach Wilson into a world beater franchise QB? Not necessarily, but Patrick Mahomes credits his redshirt year with allowing him to be the QB he is today. I do wonder what would've happened with Wilson had he been given that redshirt year, but we'll never really know now.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard.

Mac Jones had 3 OCs in 3 years, one of which made his name in the NFL as a DC. Everything that Belicheat did to aid Tom Brady's development, he did AT LEAST that much to destroy Mac Jones's development. Jones would've been better off in literally any other situation, and might be a better version of Brock Purdy had the 49ers actually drafted him.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard.

Everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class, I said that already. The previous two paragraphs I feel are far more interesting discussion than the above sentence.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

He doesn't, but as several people here said at the time, it was a pretty bold call to call Lawrence a bust at the time he was being anointed as the future of the NFL. I think getting things like that right when going against all conventional wisdom lends credibility to my evaluations going forward.

You bring him up all of the time when he's not mentioned or relevant to a post. So how is he not living rent free in your head?

That particular part was about rankings. Most had Young ahead of Stroud in rankings.

If anyone said they didn't want Young drafted by the Colts then they didn't have him rated higher than Stroud. Just as the poll C&O posted shows.

I still think his poise, accuracy, and ability to improvise give him a chance to succeed and his size gives him a chance to fail. He appears to be hampered by a less than ideal organizational situation as well.

Maybe. Sounds like you're already prepping Young up for Jones/Wilson type of excuses.

Yes, it's a chance. A damn near guarantee was passed up for a chance.

We'll just have to see how it plays out. One thing's for sure though: you bitching non-stop about Ballard not trading up for Stroud isn't going to make a bit of difference other than to continue to annoy everyone else on here.

Daniels likely won't be there at 15, so the point is probably moot, like I already said and it seems you agree. I also haven't watched enough film of him yet to have a real opinion on Daniels, I just very much like what I've seen so far.

Not only is he likely to be gone, but there's no way Ballard would draft him at 15 b/c that would mean that he's giving up on AR. So even suggesting that we draft Daniels is stupid.

I appreciate the compliment portion, but I'm not going to "admit" I'm wrong if I don't feel I am (Yes, lots of "I" there, don't know another way to express the point). You know what I will say I was wrong about? Taylor's fumble problem negating most of his value. I still hate fumbles from RBs, but Taylor has reduced his fumbling quite a bit in the NFL and he produces far too much positive value for it to be negated by his fumbles, especially considering how much less he's done it in the NFL.

That's a step in the right direction, but there are plenty of other times where you were wrong and won't admit it like w/ Wilson and Jones. You also claimed before the season started that Daniel Jones was a good QB and predicted that he'd have a good year. You going to admit you were wrong there or come up with some BS excuse as to why you're not?

Let's be real, as C & O already illustrated, most votes were for Richardson. Only 3 votes (including my own) were for Stroud. Levis got as many votes as Stroud. Most were also likely taking draft position into consideration when they voted. So I don't think that was as representative of "Which QB do you want?" as it was "Which QB do you want at 4?" I did not make that consideration in my vote, as I believed Ballard was correct when he said that if a franchise QB was available, heaven and earth should be moved to get him.

Agree that most people were probably taking draft position into consideration, but the poll is still objective evidence against your claim that you were the only one who had Stroud rated higher than Young. And BTW I voted for Stroud in that poll too.

[ChaosTheory]

Just regarding the pre-draft QB's... I remember this board being one of the few places not on the Bryce Young train. We had more guys calling for Will Levis than Bryce Young. AR had the most interest.

I know there were guys here on board with Stroud over the rest. I want to say myself, Commish, rm, Norm (?) were a few.

I was coming from a different place than Dam, though. I wasn't super sold on any of them. I just thought Stroud had the best passing skills. He had a great rookie year, but I'm still not ready to anoint him. Especially because AR impressed in limited action and I'm excited for him to take the cuffs our roster which is better than what Stroud has.

[Racehorse]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

There's only one perspective any of us have. Can't say what your perspective or anyone else's is. Mine is that a franchise QB was there for the taking and Ballard did not move heaven and earth to get him as he promised.



How do you think Chiefs fans feel about not having a 2018 1st round draft pick? Do you think they care?

Barring injury, C.J. Stroud is well on his way to being a franchise QB, and he's not a Colt. I think we can agree on those things at the very least. You don't have to be frustrated about that, but I am. I'd rather have the sure thing than the chance.



Each player is different and it's not really possible to know what development path will work best for each one. That said, clearly throwing him into the fire didn't work out for the Jets and Zach Wilson. Does that mean a redshirt year would've turned Zach Wilson into a world beater franchise QB? Not necessarily, but Patrick Mahomes credits his redshirt year with allowing him to be the QB he is today. I do wonder what would've happened with Wilson had he been given that redshirt year, but we'll never really know now.



Mac Jones had 3 OCs in 3 years, one of which made his name in the NFL as a DC. Everything that Belicheat did to aid Tom Brady's development, he did AT LEAST that much to destroy Mac Jones's development. Jones would've been better off in literally any other situation, and might be a better version of Brock Purdy had the 49ers actually drafted him.



Everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class, I said that already. The previous two paragraphs I feel are far more interesting discussion than the above sentence.



He doesn't, but as several people here said at the time, it was a pretty bold call to call Lawrence a bust at the time he was being anointed as the future of the NFL. I think getting things like that right when going against all conventional wisdom lends credibility to my evaluations going forward.



That particular part was about rankings. Most had Young ahead of Stroud in rankings.



I still think his poise, accuracy, and ability to improvise give him a chance to succeed and his size gives him a chance to fail. He appears to be hampered by a less than ideal organizational situation as well.



Yes, it's a chance. A damn near guarantee was passed up for a chance.



Daniels likely won't be there at 15, so the point is probably moot, like I already said and it seems you agree. I also haven't watched enough film of him yet to have a real opinion on Daniels, I just very much like what I've seen so far.



I appreciate the compliment portion, but I'm not going to "admit" I'm wrong if I don't feel I am (Yes, lots of "I" there, don't know another way to express the point). You know what I will say I was wrong about? Taylor's fumble problem negating most of his value. I still hate fumbles from RBs, but Taylor has reduced his fumbling quite a bit in the NFL and he produces far too much positive value for it to be negated by his fumbles, especially considering how much less he's done it in the NFL.



Let's be real, as C & O already illustrated, most votes were for Richardson. Only 3 votes (including my own) were for Stroud. Levis got as many votes as Stroud. Most were also likely taking draft position into consideration when they voted. So I don't think that was as representative of "Which QB do you want?" as it was "Which QB do you want at 4?" I did not make that consideration in my vote, as I believed Ballard was correct when he said that if a franchise QB was available, heaven and earth should be moved to get him.

I'm not going to comment on much here, except how you act (harp on) regarding Stroud, and the part about votes and moving heaven and earth.

Yes, I think most of us voted with the idea that it was between Levis and AR. There was no feasible concept where we would get a shot at Stroud or Young. It was known for quite some time that Carolina moved up to get Young. This means we were not going to get a shot at Stroud, because HOU is a division rival. You say we could have moved up like Carolina did, but the asking price was very steep, it seems. Why do that if you have Stroud and Richardson rated about equally, as it seems Ballard did?

About your harping, that is the real issue. I am not asking you to "admit" that Stroud was not as you predicted, because that would be a lie. I am saying that you should give it a rest. we all agree he is doing an amazing job, but we also saw what AR was able to do in our offense, and it was just as electric.