Leonard on what happened the last couple of weeks

[apballin]

Originally Posted by rm1369

We have a fundamental difference on what a leader is. What you describe is, to me anyway, a great player - not necessarily a leader. I think it is great for the team if it’s best players are also leaders, but it isn’t a requirement. Many great players are actually poor leaders because the natural talents they possess don’t transfer to those around them. For example, here is a quote from Leonard on Walker’s departure:

“Now that Anthony Walker is gone, you need that person to take in that leadership role and say, ‘Okay, this is what you have to do,'” Leonard said, via Joel A. Erickson of the Indianapolis Star. “‘This is the way that it has to be.’ . . . I’m going to have to quit being this friendly guy, quit being this guy that smiles all the time and goes about doing it his way. Now, it’s about this is the right way, this is how we do it, and hold people accountable that way.”

Notice that Leonard himself said he had been doing things “his way” and now he has to do them “the right way”? Leonard was a great player before this year, but his methods were by his own admission not what you want the majority of the team to emulate. Why? Because it likely won’t work for them.

This quote is just another example of why I don’t see Leonard as a leader. Think about what he actually said here. He basically said: “I anoint myself leader and now I’ll have to start doing things the right way solely so I can start holding others accountable for doing things their own way - as I did prior to declaring myself the leader”. Without a doubt a great player, but that is pretty fucking far from EFFECTIVE leadership.

Taking it to Wentz, he’s not a shitty leader because he isn’t a great player. He’s a shitty leader because he models poor habits. The apparent lack of coachability would get plenty of other guys cut. Wentz is significantly more naturally talented than Jacoby Brissett, but I consider Brissett a leader and Wentz much closer to a cancer. If everyone on the team modeled Jacoby’s work ethic, coachability, and selflessness you’d likely have a pretty decent team (assuming at least average talent). If everyone modeled Wentz you’d be battling for the #1 pick.

I see no indications Leonard is a leader. I see that he feels he should be one. Maybe he’ll become one in time. But to me it doesn’t appear natural to him. Great player though.

What he says to some Colts beat writer don’t mean anything to me

Some guys lead by example some guys are rah rah leaders some guys are in between

How can Leonard hold guys accountable he doesn’t own the team

A leader steps up in big moments, has respect of all his teammates, and makes everyone bring their game up. I feel like the defense feeds of Leonard

There’s a difference when respect is earned and given

Leonard earned it

Wentz was given it

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by apballin

What he says to some Colts beat writer don’t mean anything to me

Some guys lead by example some guys are rah rah leaders some guys are in between

How can Leonard hold guys accountable he doesn’t own the team

A leader steps up in big moments, has respect of all his teammates, and makes everyone bring their game up. I feel like the defense feeds of Leonard

There’s a difference when respect is earned and given

Leonard earned it

Wentz was given it

And yet his defense shit the bed in the biggest moment of the year against the worst team in the league. Clearly whatever Leonard did to help his team get ready for this big moment didn't work.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

And yet his defense shit the bed in the biggest moment of the year against the worst team in the league. Clearly whatever Leonard did to help his team get ready for this big moment didn't work.

Really? Because of Leonard they lost? It was a team effort across the board

[Colts And Orioles]

Originally Posted by JAFF

Really ??? Because of Leonard they lost ??? It was a team effort across the board.

o


I will go to my grave believing that Dan Marino was a better quarterback than Terry Bradshaw, and Peyton Manning was a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls, was the MVP in 2 of those 4 Super Bowl wins, while Dan Marino's team got blown out by a score of 38-16 in the only Super Bowl that he ever reached in his historic career ...... but there is no doubt in my mind that Marino was the better quarterback than Bradshaw.


Also, while Brady's teams went 7-3 in Super Bowls in his career (compared to Manning's teams going 2-2 in Super Bowls in his career), Manning's teams actually beat Brady's teams 3 times out of 4 in AFC Championship games ...... Brady's Patriots beat Manning's Colts in the 2003 AFC Championship game, while Manning's' Colts and Manning's Broncos beat Brady's Patriots in the 2006, 2013, and 2015 AFC Championship games.


Finally, out of the 10 Super Bowls in which his team played in, I believe that Brady played his best Super Bowl in a game in which his team lost ...... and that is a compliment to Brady. I think that you could make an argument that Brady should have been only the second player ever to be named MVP of a Super Bowl while playing for the losing team (Chuck Howley of the Cowboys was named MVP of Super Bowl V when his Cowboys lost to the Baltimore Colts.) Perhaps Brady and Nick Foles should have been named CO-MVP's of that particular Super Bowl.


Thanks for bearing with me in my long, windbag post.

o

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by JAFF

Really? Because of Leonard they lost? It was a team effort across the board

No, I'm saying that if he was anywhere near as good of a leader as some of you on the board think he is then he would have inspired our D to play worth a fuck, which they obviously didn't.

[apballin]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

And yet his defense shit the bed in the biggest moment of the year against the worst team in the league. Clearly whatever Leonard did to help his team get ready for this big moment didn't work.

The jags had 300 yards of total offense that’s hardly shitting the bed, Wentz turnovers lost that game did the defense have a great game No but 300 yards is not getting dominated

The offense scored 11 points

You realize Leonard can only do so much right

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by apballin

The jags had 300 yards of total offense that’s hardly shitting the bed, Wentz turnovers lost that game did the defense have a great game No but 300 yards is not getting dominated

The offense scored 11 points

You realize Leonard can only do so much right

You have to consider the opponent. That was also the highest scoring game for the Jagoffs this season. Trevor Lawrence had double the meaningful TD passes in that game than he had in the previous 9 games (yes he had only 1 meaningful TD in the previous 9 games, 2 total with one when they were down by 47 to the Cheats). Shit he tied his meaningful TD passes on their first possession when they drove on our D like a hot knife through butter.

Yes, the O was horrendous, but the D shit the bed too.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

You have to consider the opponent. That was also the highest scoring game for the Jagoffs this season. Trevor Lawrence had double the meaningful TD passes in that game than he had in the previous 9 games (yes he had only 1 meaningful TD in the previous 9 games, 2 total with one when they were down by 47 to the Cheats). Shit he tied his meaningful TD passes on their first possession when they drove on our D like a hot knife through butter.

Yes, the O was horrendous, but the D shit the bed too.

The Jags opening drive TD really set the tone for the game. Both the O and the D were MIA that game from the start.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by apballin

What he says to some Colts beat writer don’t mean anything to me

Some guys lead by example some guys are rah rah leaders some guys are in between

How can Leonard hold guys accountable he doesn’t own the team

A leader steps up in big moments, has respect of all his teammates, and makes everyone bring their game up. I feel like the defense feeds of Leonard

There’s a difference when respect is earned and given

Leonard earned it

Wentz was given it

I still see no difference between your definition of leadership and greatness. Terrell Owens, young Randy Moss, Antonio Brown, Levon Bell. All great players and, by your definition, leaders. Sorry, I’ll disagree.

You ask how Leonard is supposed to hold guys accountable. Do you recognize those where his words and not mine? Then you say he makes everyone bring their game up. I’ll ask you how? The most beneficial way to me is by modeling the right dedication, film study, body care, etc during the week. That’s leadership to me. Doing things “your way” instead of “the right way” during the week and then making a big play is greatness. Both are important, but they are different. To me at least.

Using your own definition, Leonard’s leadership failed against the Jags. He played like shit and so did nearly everyone else. He then comes out and talks about how OTHER GUYS need to learn from the failure. He’s a talker, not a leader.
.

[apballin]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I still see no difference between your definition of leadership and greatness. Terrell Owens, young Randy Moss, Antonio Brown, Levon Bell. All great players and, by your definition, leaders. Sorry, I’ll disagree.

You ask how Leonard is supposed to hold guys accountable. Do you recognize those where his words and not mine? Then you say he makes everyone bring their game up. I’ll ask you how? The most beneficial way to me is by modeling the right dedication, film study, body care, etc during the week. That’s leadership to me. Doing things “your way” instead of “the right way” during the week and then making a big play is greatness. Both are important, but they are different. To me at least.

Using your own definition, Leonard’s leadership failed against the Jags. He played like shit and so did nearly everyone else. He then comes out and talks about how OTHER GUYS need to learn from the failure. He’s a talker, not a leader.
.

Are you fuckin kidding me???

He’s put up historic numbers only comparable to Ray Lewis at this point in his career he created more turnovers than half of the teams in the NFL by himself with zero pass rush all year

He talks and backs it up fuck that Reich and Wentz failed more than anyone on this entire team all year and most of all the last 2 weeks of the season

Leonard can only mask so much he’s a leader but I’ll say it again you gotta have it on both sides of the ball