General off-season news thread

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

Why do you say that? I think he is very accurate and throws a beautiful deep ball.

He throws a great deep ball, but he's not the most accurate on some of the short to intermediate throws, and struggles against pressure. He's not going to have those 4+ second pockets he was in constantly at Alabama in the NFL.

[Oldcolt]

Does anybody have any interest in free agent qbs? Can Reich do some magic with like Winston?

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Racehorse

On the bold part, I think you are using a stat that isn't relevant. Starters average closer to ten years in the league, whereas the bottom of the roster is what lowers that average. Make any argument you want about urgency, but make sure the data you offer is pertinent.

Ok, that’s fair. Let’s look at it a different way. You mentioned starters so let’s look at depth charts. There are 2 players listed as starters for the Colts in 2015 that were listed as starters in 2019 (only considering the 22 players on O and D, no special teams). Those two are Castonzo and TY. Ok, well the Colts struggled during that period and had a GM change over so roster turnover is to be expected. So let’s look at 3 of the consistent winners over that time period. NE has 3, Steelers have 4, and Greenbay has 4. 3 of the most consistent winning teams in the league have only maintained 17% of their starters from 2015 to 2019. I can look at others if you want or shorten the time period (I used that span because it matches the 2018 to 2022 span I mentioned previously), but however you cut it the only consistent thing in the NFL is change.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Does anybody have any interest in free agent qbs? Can Reich do some magic with like Winston?

Main two guys I’d have an interest in are Carr and Newton. I doubt either is available in free agency though and I wouldn’t be willing to trade much for either of them. I think both are a step up from Brissett, but I’m also fairly pessimistic about the long term success of a team without a franchise QB. Giving up much of anything for a QB below that level seems counter productive to me. I guess an argument could be made that to develop the WR group you at least need a QB that can get the ball out though so it would depend on the asking price.

Although their systems are completely different, I trust Arians assessment of a QB. If he’s willing to walk away from Winston then I’d pass.

[rcubed]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Does anybody have any interest in free agent qbs? Can Reich do some magic with like Winston?

no.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rm1369

What you are saying is true in general. However I’m not knocking Ballard for not having a replacement for Luck. My criticism has always been of essentially willingly wasting a year(s) with a franchise QB. It is very likely that from 2015 to 2022 that 2018 team will have been the closest to a title team the Colts have. So the best opportunity in a 7-8 year span was pissed away for a future that MAY come 4 years later. That is assuming he drafts a competent QB this year. In a league where the average career is 3.3 years that seems extremely wasteful to me. I get that he didn’t expect Luck to retire, but that to me is irrelevant. Luck admitted he considered retirement due to the shoulder and any player is one play away from retirement anyway. You’d think Colts fans of all people would understand how fragile it all is.

On AC it’s a little different. Again, I’m not criticizing Ballard for not having a great LT ready to step in. However, I won’t pretend like this has never been discussed or brought up. Going into the 2018 draft many said OT was the biggest OL need. Someone to play RT and then eventually slide in to the LT spot. I quoted one of my posts from the debates about Nelson where I said pretty much exactly that. So I’m not going to knock Ballard for it, but I’m also not going to pretend it was something he had no way or no reason to consider. If people on here are saying it then Ballard definitely sees it as well. He chose to draft admittedly a hell of an OG at 6 instead. But it was a decision he knowingly made.

I think that’s hyperbole. I don’t think he wasted a year by implementing his plan – we won a playoff game in a season where few thought we’d make the playoffs at all. If Ballard had spent more of that salary cap space in 2018, would we have had a better chance to beat the Chiefs? Maybe, but we’ll never know.

One of the problems with your argument is that it is premised upon the absolute certainty that this team would have been better and gone further in the playoffs if Ballard had implemented your plan and signed premium free agents instead of focusing on youth. While it’s certainly possible I don’t think that’s a certainty. Free agency is a bit of a minefield and we might well have ended up with a few bombs. Ryan Jenson and Andrew Norwell – two individuals we actively pursued with most people’s blessing here – haven’t nearly lived up to their lofty billing. In fact, here’s a pre-season article I found from March 2018 outlining the Indy Star’s view on the free agents we should pursue that offseason:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nse/402692002/

Who of these guys do you think would have made a difference in retrospect? Allen Robinson would have been nice, no doubt, but I don’t think the rest of these guys would have been an improvement over our current (younger and cheaper) roster members. And let’s not forget the “butterfly effect” of signing some additional veteran free agents – would we have Quinton Nelson or Darius Leonard? Hines? What about DION F’ING CAIN? (oh, wait…)

All thing considered, and in retrospect, I’m happy with the path Ballard chose, even through we lost in the divisional round last season. I think we did about as well as any of us could have reasonably expected at the beginning of the 2018 offseason – with our without more free agent signings.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rcubed

On the flip side, in the last few years the rams have gone all in to win now. Resigning their own guys to big contracts (goff, gurly, donald) and being very aggressive in signing FAs and trades (fowler, weddle, mathews, suh, ramsey, etc).

They got embarrassed in the SB and didnt make the playoffs this year. They dont have a ton of cap space and need to resign guys, specifically fowler and ramsey who will bring a big contracts.

Not necessarily the best way to go about it either.

Excellent example Rcubed. Thank you.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Does anybody have any interest in free agent qbs? Can Reich do some magic with like Winston?

I'd prefer Bridgewater, and I think the Colts could go far with him at QB.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by rcubed

On the flip side, in the last few years the rams have gone all in to win now. Resigning their own guys to big contracts (goff, gurly, donald) and being very aggressive in signing FAs and trades (fowler, weddle, mathews, suh, ramsey, etc).

They got embarrassed in the SB and didnt make the playoffs this year. They dont have a ton of cap space and need to resign guys, specifically fowler and ramsey who will bring a big contracts.

Not necessarily the best way to go about it either.

Fair enough, although:

1) I wouldn’t consider Goff at the franchise QB level. To me he doesn’t carry the team the way those guys do. He’s a decent QB on a good team. If a new GM took over KC and decided he was rebuilding the roster over 3-4 years it would be comparable. Seattle turned over their roster with Wilson. They didn’t wait to replace nearly every need in the draft. That’s more comparable.

2) Any discussion of spending money or bringing in vets and guys on here go to the most extreme examples they can find as the only comparisons. I’ve not once went off because we didn’t trade for the newest “star” that’s being moved or sign the highest price free agent. But if you think Ballard adequately addressed the WR position before the 2018 season then we simply won’t agree on anything. And I’ll point out - guess what one of the top needs going into 2020 is? Yeah, WR. It’s hard af to address every need through the draft or with a bargain.

3) After the 2018 season Ballard essentially said the team came together quicker than he thought. If he realized they would have been that good do you think he’d have done more? I do. And after this season he admitted erring by getting rid of some of the vets. That sounds pretty similar to what I’ve complained about - forcing youth for the long term gain over what vets bring this year.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Chaka

I think that’s hyperbole. I don’t think he wasted a year by implementing his plan – we won a playoff game in a season where few thought we’d make the playoffs at all. If Ballard had spent more of that salary cap space in 2018, would we have had a better chance to beat the Chiefs? Maybe, but we’ll never know.

One of the problems with your argument is that it is premised upon the absolute certainty that this team would have been better and gone further in the playoffs if Ballard had implemented your plan and signed premium free agents instead of focusing on youth. While it’s certainly possible I don’t think that’s a certainty. Free agency is a bit of a minefield and we might well have ended up with a few bombs. Ryan Jenson and Andrew Norwell – two individuals we actively pursued with most people’s blessing here – haven’t nearly lived up to their lofty billing. In fact, here’s a pre-season article I found from March 2018 outlining the Indy Star’s view on the free agents we should pursue that offseason:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...nse/402692002/

Who of these guys do you think would have made a difference in retrospect? Allen Robinson would have been nice, no doubt, but I don’t think the rest of these guys would have been an improvement over our current (younger and cheaper) roster members. And let’s not forget the “butterfly effect” of signing some additional veteran free agents – would we have Quinton Nelson or Darius Leonard? Hines? What about DION F’ING CAIN? (oh, wait…)

All thing considered, and in retrospect, I’m happy with the path Ballard chose, even through we lost in the divisional round last season. I think we did about as well as any of us could have reasonably expected at the beginning of the 2018 offseason – with our without more free agent signings.

Chaka, I get it - I’m not going to sway you at all. I can’t prove that anything would have been better and I can’t prove that anything good that has happened would have still happened. It’s a game that I can’t win. Pretty much the exact concern I had (the unpredictable nature of the NFL) rocked the franchise (Lucks retirement) and they may be facing a similar situation (AC retiring) this offseason. I complained about a 3-4 year rebuild and we are now entering year 4 and the dynasty is no where in sight. I complained about a 1 yr deal for Funchess because I didn’t believe it solved anything at WR. He played one game, WR is still a mess and whether or not he comes back next year is up in the air. It doesn’t matter what is said or what happens your opinion isn’t going to change. And considering where the team is mine sure as hell isn’t either. So the discussion is pointless.