Importance of "Veteran Presence"

[Pez]

Originally Posted by TheMugwump

Ah yes...the thread with the great arm-length debate of 2019. Good times.

Not to start another good times debate, but to what extent do you think the "proverbial veteran presence" is a factor in the Ballard culture?

The reason I'm bringing this up is we see a great deal of leadership based on merit. Darius Leonard became a rookie leadership presence in the locker room by the end of the season, There is video of Quenton Nelson mentoring Costanzo

I think that veteran presence if very important, but I think it might be less important to the Colts' buy-in culture than it might be for other teams.

[omahacolt]

Al woods was said to be a great vet for the locker room. Not sure how important it is

[GoBigBlue88]

Veteran presence only really matters if your team is good and has game-changing players, tbh.

Andre Johnson was a veteran presence once. Heh. The list goes on.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88

Veteran presence only really matters if your team is good and has game-changing players, tbh.

Andre Johnson was a veteran presence once. Heh. The list goes on.

I completely disagree with this. Seeing how players take care of their bodies, study tape, etc is the kinds of things guys pickup from vets. Hilton learning tricks of the trade from Reggie is an example of veteran presence. Wilson’s attitude change after being mentored a little by Mitchell is an example of veteran presence. Guys can learn a lot from someone that’s “been there and done that.” I’d agree that a team needs some talent to get the most from it, but if your roster is so shit that there is no one capable of improving then the vets are probably your best players anyway.

[GoBigBlue88]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I completely disagree with this. Seeing how players take care of their bodies, study tape, etc is the kinds of things guys pickup from vets. Hilton learning tricks of the trade from Reggie is an example of veteran presence. Wilson’s attitude change after being mentored a little by Mitchell is an example of veteran presence. Guys can learn a lot from someone that’s “been there and done that.” I’d agree that a team needs some talent to get the most from it, but if your roster is so shit that there is no one capable of improving then the vets are probably your best players anyway.

I mean, Donte Moncrief probably learned from Reggie too. How'd that turn out?

Hilton is good because Hilton is good. Just like Campbell will be good if Campbell is good. The veteran mentorship is totally secondary to that, which was my point.

[Oldcolt]

The place I would like to see a veteran is in the secondary. Eric Berry can still play and would give a veteran presence. I'd like to see us kick those tires.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I completely disagree with this. Seeing how players take care of their bodies, study tape, etc is the kinds of things guys pickup from vets. Hilton learning tricks of the trade from Reggie is an example of veteran presence. Wilson’s attitude change after being mentored a little by Mitchell is an example of veteran presence. Guys can learn a lot from someone that’s “been there and done that.” I’d agree that a team needs some talent to get the most from it, but if your roster is so shit that there is no one capable of improving then the vets are probably your best players anyway.

This isn't football, but it's about veterans and what they know.

There's a young man (compared to me) who left our town and went to the US Coast Guard Academy. He's a Commander now, and has moved through the ranks and posts. I asked him once, who had the biggest impact on his career. He said it was the old senior chief Petty officer who was finishing up his career at the Academy. He knew everything about seamanship, tradtion, and the stuff that keeps young officers from becoming casulties. Institutional knowledge of 35 years in the USCG. My young friend said,"you got the message, that you had better measure up and be worthy to command that man at sea."

Now football isn't nearly as serious, but it's the same thing in many institutions. The old wise minds who can guild the young kids so they have a chance at a successful career.

[omahacolt]

This isn’t football.

But I once talked to a kid that got hired for a job, worked hard at the job, and learned how to excel at his job because that was what he was paid to do.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rm1369

I completely disagree with this. Seeing how players take care of their bodies, study tape, etc is the kinds of things guys pickup from vets. Hilton learning tricks of the trade from Reggie is an example of veteran presence. Wilson’s attitude change after being mentored a little by Mitchell is an example of veteran presence. Guys can learn a lot from someone that’s “been there and done that.” I’d agree that a team needs some talent to get the most from it, but if your roster is so shit that there is no one capable of improving then the vets are probably your best players anyway.

I agree with this to a certain extent, but those who expect the veteran players to take younger players under their wing and groom them to eventually take the veteran player’s job is just counterintuitive to me. That’s not to say that there aren’t a few players who are just natural teachers, and are supportive and encouraging to younger players, but my operating assumption is that the vast majority of veteran players are highly competitive and mostly self-interested.

Look at Peyton Manning – a guy who had no reason to ever think his job was in jeopardy (until, of course, he got seriously injured), yet he insisted on playing every down in most games, even in blowouts. Sure, I suppose it would be valuable for a younger player to watch Manning prepare (though as I type this I can't think of any Manning backups who ever amounted to anything, so the value of this is debatable), but I wouldn't expect these guys to nurture the younger players.

[TheMugwump]

Originally Posted by Chaka

I agree with this to a certain extent, but those who expect the veteran players to take younger players under their wing and groom them to eventually take the veteran player’s job is just counterintuitive to me. That’s not to say that there aren’t a few players who are just natural teachers, and are supportive and encouraging to younger players, but my operating assumption is that the vast majority of veteran players are highly competitive and mostly self-interested.

Look at Peyton Manning – a guy who had no reason to ever think his job was in jeopardy (until, of course, he got seriously injured), yet he insisted on playing every down in most games, even in blowouts. Sure, I suppose it would be valuable for a younger player to watch Manning prepare (though as I type this I can't think of any Manning backups who ever amounted to anything, so the value of this is debatable), but I wouldn't expect these guys to nurture the younger players.

I hear what you are saying, although I think at a position, say DE or DT, where there is a rotation unlike your Peyton example, there would be a lot more sharing of how to prepare your body, how to watch film, how to counter certain blocks, etc... That may just be my mental movie of it though. You're certainly correct that anyone in the NFL is super competitive and will, and should, always look out for their own job first. I think that some of those jobs are just different and lend themselves to more exchanges of information.