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-   -   Colts Re-Sign Blackmon (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179438)

IndyNorm 04-02-2024 09:42 PM

Colts Re-Sign Blackmon
 
Only a 1 year deal, but it's still good news.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-re-sign-colts

apballin 04-02-2024 10:31 PM

Yea I like it

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 04-03-2024 08:36 AM

Rapoport provides a few contract details:


https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1775335513316049394


Quote:

The Colts and S Julian Blackmon agreed to terms on a 1-year deal worth up to $7.7M, source said.

It includes $3.2M guaranteed.

TheMugwump 04-03-2024 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyNorm (Post 295218)
Only a 1 year deal, but it's still good news.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-re-sign-colts

Good news, IMO. But watch the Polian...err, Grigson...err, whatever our GM's name is, haters come out with a loud, "The loser hasn't signed ANYONE to make the team better".

You know, other than:
Michael Pittman, Jr. (who is a beast)
Grover Stewart (starter)
Kenny Moore (starter)
Zaire Franklin (starter)
Lewis (mid)
Sanchez (well, he's just a punter)
and now Blackmon (starter)

Had Ballard gone out and gotten five starters from other teams, plus a rotational piece on the D-Line, he would have been hailed as a hero, in spite of the fact that new players take time to fit into the locker room and/or may not fit the system being run. Bringing back nearly all of the team's FA is a baller move, IMO, and he will likely hear nothing but grief.

Discflinger 04-03-2024 03:04 PM

If he can stay healthy looking good for da coats

Racehorse 04-03-2024 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMugwump (Post 295252)
Good news, IMO. But watch the Polian...err, Grigson...err, whatever our GM's name is, haters come out with a loud, "The loser hasn't signed ANYONE to make the team better".

You know, other than:
Michael Pittman, Jr. (who is a beast)
Grover Stewart (starter)
Kenny Moore (starter)
Zaire Franklin (starter)
Lewis (mid)
Sanchez (well, he's just a punter)
and now Blackmon (starter)

Had Ballard gone out and gotten five starters from other teams, plus a rotational piece on the D-Line, he would have been hailed as a hero, in spite of the fact that new players take time to fit into the locker room and/or may not fit the system being run. Bringing back nearly all of the team's FA is a baller move, IMO, and he will likely hear nothing but grief.

And those who are out for his head because he did not go get the flashy name forget that the teams who did sign those guys also lost a lot of their own players, such as Derrick Henry.

ChaosTheory 04-03-2024 05:00 PM

We'll need him. Add Stephon Diggs to the division.

Thorgrim 04-03-2024 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discflinger (Post 295254)
If he can stay healthy looking good for da coats

da coats indeed

IndyNorm 04-03-2024 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 295266)
We'll need him. Add Stephon Diggs to the division.

Well shit. That's not good :cool:

Racehorse 04-03-2024 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyNorm (Post 295282)
Well shit. That's not good :cool:

My hope is that he is the cancer that destroys that team from within.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 04-03-2024 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 295284)
My hope is that he is the cancer that destroys that team from within.

He will probably exhibit good behavior for a season, but I think he starts complaining about his contract (and may hold out) if they don't redo it very soon.

Dam8610 04-03-2024 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyNorm (Post 295282)
Well shit. That's not good :cool:

Diggs is 31 this year, Bills were smart to move him now. Better a season early than a season late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlwaysSunnyinIndy (Post 295286)
He will probably exhibit good behavior for a season, but I think he starts complaining about his contract (and may hold out) if they don't redo it very soon.

We can only hope the Texans are stupid enough to give him a big money extension.

ChaosTheory 04-04-2024 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 295288)
Diggs is 31 this year, Bills were smart to move him now. Better a season early than a season late.



We can only hope the Texans are stupid enough to give him a big money extension.

Agree on both counts.

rm1369 04-04-2024 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 295288)

We can only hope the Texans are stupid enough to give him a big money extension.

He’s under contract through 2027 with no dead money beyond this year if Texans decide to move on. I doubt he sees an extension from them. Seems like a very low risk high reward move for Texans. It could blow up on them, but I’d prefer taking a swing to bunting every time.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 04-04-2024 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295308)

He’s under contract through 2027


Not anymore.

The Texans have eliminated 2025, 2026 and 2027 from his contract.

Diggs will now be a free agent next off season.

I knew that Diggs wasn't going to play under his old contract.


https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/sta...76853355823323

Quote:

Added incentive for Stefon Diggs:

As part of the Buffalo-Houston trade, the Texans wiped out the final three years on Diggs’ contract, giving him the ability to become a free agent after this season, league sources tell ESPN.

The Texans also took the $3.5 million guaranteed to Diggs next season and moved up into this season, giving him a raise and assuring him of $22.52 million in guaranteed money in 2024.

But if Diggs plays the way he wants, and Houston hopes, he will hit the free-agent market next offseason with the ability to make it count.

Houston now anticipates getting the best version of Stefon Diggs this season
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/stat...78608260981163

Quote:

Also significant: Because this will be Texans WR Stefon Diggs' 10th NFL season, the most Houston can get in a comp pick if he leaves after this year would be a fifth-round pick.

So cutting years off the deal is a big concession.

rm1369 04-04-2024 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlwaysSunnyinIndy (Post 295328)
Not anymore.

The Texans have eliminated 2025, 2026 and 2027 from his contract.

Diggs will now be a free agent next off season.

I knew that Diggs wasn't going to play under his old contract.


That’s a pretty interesting concession. Makes him highly motivated to perform and be on his best behavior this season, but puts them in a bad spot the following year. I agree - likely good for Colts if they resign him long term. Bad for the Colts next year though.

Discflinger 04-05-2024 03:25 AM

Meh...next year won't be our time anyway. Bleed them and leave them dry.

rm1369 04-05-2024 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discflinger (Post 295341)
Meh...next year won't be our time anyway. Bleed them and leave them dry.

I’m curious when will be the Colts time? I feel like the can keeps getting kicked down the road. To me it’s now, this should be the start of a 3 yr window. I keep hearing that AR (and some development from other young players) is going to make all the difference and why Ballard doesn’t need to do anything other than resign his guys. So if AR is who we think and hope then you have a small window to compete with one version of the team (more balanced) before his 5th yr option and extension. Then it becomes a more AR centric team. If he isn’t who we think / hope then it’s all irrelevant anyway - a large number of the key players will be gone before we ever acquire the right QB. So waiting and slow rolling make absolutely no sense.

I question the Texans logic in wiping out all the extra years on Diggs contract, but they are absolutely right to be looking short term. Stroud will keep them competitive as they revamp the team around him longer term. I believe the Colts timeline should be exactly the same.

Colts And Orioles 04-05-2024 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295345)



I’m curious ...... when will be the Colts' time ???

I feel like the can keeps getting kicked down the road ...... to me it’s now, this should be the start of a 3-year window.




o


"There is no tomorrow !!!"


Apollo Creed to Rocky, while he was training him in Rocky III

o

Racehorse 04-05-2024 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295345)
I’m curious when will be the Colts time? I feel like the can keeps getting kicked down the road. To me it’s now, this should be the start of a 3 yr window.

I think Irsay and Ballard saw our window as open when they tried to get a veteran QB to replace Luck, but they all, except Rivers, washed out. When that failed, they decided to hit the restart button. Our window is cracked, but not totally open right now. If AR is the guy, and stays healthy, then it will be wide open.

ukcolt 04-05-2024 10:52 AM

For me the time is maybe this year, but more probably next year. If we aren't deep into the thick of the post season after next season, then as much as I like Ballard he should be seriously questioned, lots already are.

But i am hopefully that the roster that almost got to the playoffs last year with a limited back up QB, should make a bigger impact this year. Development of players, continuity of play, can often trump new splash signings.

The number of splash signings that teams have made over the past 20 years where they have totally flamed out after getting the big pay cheque is very high.

rm1369 04-05-2024 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 295348)
I think Irsay and Ballard saw our window as open when they tried to get a veteran QB to replace Luck, but they all, except Rivers, washed out. When that failed, they decided to hit the restart button. Our window is cracked, but not totally open right now. If AR is the guy, and stays healthy, then it will be wide open.

That hits squarely on my main complaint with Ballard and his most loyal followers. Nothing the team did besides signing Rivers indicates that the team thought they had a window. Nothing. Besides signing Rivers it was business as usual for Ballard - focus on the draft and future development. When I point this out to his most vocal supporters I’m typically told they wanted to wait and see what they had with Rivers before going all in and then Rivers retired. A similar argument happens when I point out the lack of “going for it” with Ryan. Same with Wentz. Hell, I started my criticism of Ballard because I felt he was content wasting prime Luck years with his stated slow steady build approach. The reality is that it doesn’t matter where the team is with QB, Ballard’s method is Ballard’s method. He is not looking at and pushing for windows. That’s my main criticism of him - he has never tailored his approach to the state of the roster. That goes for winning or bottoming out. Ballard selected AR, but without Irsay’s intervention AR likely isn’t on this team. Every off season for Ballard is the same as the one before and the one after. I think that’s a losing approach. So far I’ve mostly been right.

To me AR is the guy at this point regardless. There is no reason to wait and see. If he proves to be the guy this season then you’ve wasted a season of your short window trying to verify. If he isn’t then what’s it matter? We’ve already saw how many years it takes to find even a possible guy at QB so the roster is going to look significantly different by the time they get back to the next window. You might as well support AR to the max during the next 3 years and help him become the guy before the coming huge cap hit for his extension. Then you start a new window with a different looking team.

Dam8610 04-05-2024 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295355)
That hits squarely on my main complaint with Ballard and his most loyal followers. Nothing the team did besides signing Rivers indicates that the team thought they had a window. Nothing. Besides signing Rivers it was business as usual for Ballard - focus on the draft and future development. When I point this out to his most vocal supporters I’m typically told they wanted to wait and see what they had with Rivers before going all in and then Rivers retired. A similar argument happens when I point out the lack of “going for it” with Ryan. Same with Wentz. Hell, I started my criticism of Ballard because I felt he was content wasting prime Luck years with his stated slow steady build approach. The reality is that it doesn’t matter where the team is with QB, Ballard’s method is Ballard’s method. He is not looking at and pushing for windows. That’s my main criticism of him - he has never tailed his approach to the state of the roster. That goes for winning or bottoming out. Ballard selected AR, but without Irsay’s intervention AR likely isn’t on this team. Every off season for Ballard is the same as the one before and the one after. I think that’s a losing approach. So far I’ve mostly been right.

To me AR is the guy at this point regardless. There is no reason to wait and see. If he proves to be the guy this season then you’ve wasted a season of your short window trying to verify. If he isn’t then what’s it matter? We’ve already saw how many years it takes to find even a possible guy at QB so the roster is going to look significantly different by the time they get back to the next window. You might as well support AR to the max during the next 3 years and help him become the guy before the coming huge cap hit for his extension. Then you start a new window with a different looking team.

You think Ballard traded a 1 for Carson Wentz for funsies? No, he did it with the hope that Reich could turn him into a franchise QB, which was a reasonable assumption at the time since Wentz had had an MVP caliber season under Reich. So many people talk about Ballard "not taking swings", and they completely forget his swings, like Wentz and Buckner, both of which were trades that involved significant draft capital going to other teams.

ChaosTheory 04-05-2024 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295355)
That hits squarely on my main complaint with Ballard and his most loyal followers. Nothing the team did besides signing Rivers indicates that the team thought they had a window. Nothing. Besides signing Rivers it was business as usual for Ballard - focus on the draft and future development. When I point this out to his most vocal supporters I’m typically told they wanted to wait and see what they had with Rivers before going all in and then Rivers retired. A similar argument happens when I point out the lack of “going for it” with Ryan. Same with Wentz. Hell, I started my criticism of Ballard because I felt he was content wasting prime Luck years with his stated slow steady build approach. The reality is that it doesn’t matter where the team is with QB, Ballard’s method is Ballard’s method. He is not looking at and pushing for windows. That’s my main criticism of him - he has never tailed his approach to the state of the roster. That goes for winning or bottoming out. Ballard selected AR, but without Irsay’s intervention AR likely isn’t on this team. Every off season for Ballard is the same as the one before and the one after. I think that’s a losing approach. So far I’ve mostly been right.

To me AR is the guy at this point regardless. There is no reason to wait and see. If he proves to be the guy this season then you’ve wasted a season of your short window trying to verify. If he isn’t then what’s it matter? We’ve already saw how many years it takes to find even a possible guy at QB so the roster is going to look significantly different by the time they get back to the next window. You might as well support AR to the max during the next 3 years and help him become the guy before the coming huge cap hit for his extension. Then you start a new window with a different looking team.

It's a flawed premise. It presumes that doling out $200m+ for some of our best players is not a win-now move. Those guys will continue to help us AND not help our competition by signing with another team.

It also presumes that giving up assets to poach one of another team's premier players is required. Or even that signing the top FA is required.

It's not. But even in the case of the latter... Hunter was arguably, what, a top-3 FA? Ballard apparently outbid the competition for him. Dude chose to go back to his hometown, what can you do? Ultimately, though, we didn't get him, so that translates to Ballard kicking the can down the road.

sherck 04-05-2024 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295345)
I’m curious when will be the Colts time?

If Anthony Richardson develops, from his second season of being a full-time starter until about his 10th to 12th season as a full time starter.

This league starts, and finishes, with an elite QB. If you have one, you are in the window. If you don't, you are not.

Our roster is well built to complement an elite QB. But we don't have one....yet.

rm1369 04-05-2024 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 295356)
You think Ballard traded a 1 for Carson Wentz for funsies? No, he did it with the hope that Reich could turn him into a franchise QB, which was a reasonable assumption at the time since Wentz had had an MVP caliber season under Reich. So many people talk about Ballard "not taking swings", and they completely forget his swings, like Wentz and Buckner, both of which were trades that involved significant draft capital going to other teams.

We can debate the risk in those moves, but I just don’t see how they are relevant to my point. Show me where Ballard has managed the roster to “win now”. That’s the discussion. I contend Ballard doesn’t view things that way and I believe regardless of ARs development he will continue managing the roster as he always has. If you see evidence to the contrary please provide it. The same year he traded for Wentz he had a roster that had no DE on the team with double digit sacks. Total. For their career. So the team certainly didn’t enter win now mode because he acquired Wentz.

rm1369 04-05-2024 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 295360)
It's a flawed premise. It presumes that doling out $200m+ for some of our best players is not a win-now move. Those guys will continue to help us AND not help our competition by signing with another team.

It also presumes that giving up assets to poach one of another team's premier players is required. Or even that signing the top FA is required.

It's not. But even in the case of the latter... Hunter was arguably, what, a top-3 FA? Ballard apparently outbid the competition for him. Dude chose to go back to his hometown, what can you do? Ultimately, though, we didn't get him, so that translates to Ballard kicking the can down the road.

Show me where Ballard has made moves to indicate he believes the teams window is open at any point in his tenure. I don’t believe he see things in windows which is my point and a big issue I have with him. The roster is largely managed the same regardless of what state it is. I contend that’s a mistake. You are pointing out arguments that are irrelevant. If you don’t believe teams should work in windows and tailor their moves to their situation then fine, say that. That’s a different discussion. Otherwise tell me how I’m wrong and show me the obvious difference in roster management from when Ballard is in win now mode to when he is in rebuild mode.

rm1369 04-05-2024 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherck (Post 295362)
If Anthony Richardson develops, from his second season of being a full-time starter until about his 10th to 12th season as a full time starter.

This league starts, and finishes, with an elite QB. If you have one, you are in the window. If you don't, you are not.

Our roster is well built to complement an elite QB. But we don't have one....yet.

I don’t disagree on the value of an elite QB. So my argument would be that the moves for Rivers and Ryan were kicking the can down the road. Either you thought they were elite and you should have managed the rest of the roster accordingly. Or you shouldn’t have acquired them, started an Ehlinger level guy and acquired the picks necessary to find your guy. Instead Ballard went middle of the road and did neither. I do concede that Wentz was young enough that a one year prove it season was a viable option. It wasn’t for Rivers or Ryan though. Their age said either go for it or stay away.

I guess my question is if AR develops, do you expect different roster management from Ballard next year? And because of how important QB is, what’s the plan if he doesn’t develop? The team isn’t competing. Aren’t we just back on the same mediocre path we’d been on until Irsay got involved? So what then is the risk of assuming the window is open this year and getting AR more help so the pressure of carrying the team to the playoffs isn’t all on him as it is now?

Racehorse 04-05-2024 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295367)
We can debate the risk in those moves, but I just don’t see how they are relevant to my point. Show me where Ballard has managed the roster to “win now”. That’s the discussion. I contend Ballard doesn’t view things that way and I believe regardless of ARs development he will continue managing the roster as he always has. If you see evidence to the contrary please provide it. The same year he traded for Wentz he had a roster that had no DE on the team with double digit sacks. Total. For their career. So the team certainly didn’t enter win now mode because he acquired Wentz.

My guess is there is nothing that can happen for you to think Ballard is capable. For the rest of us, we see the possibilities that a franchise QB opens up for a team. Without one, there is no chance. We think we have found one, and the team is solid behind him. The team that was one play from the playoff with a backup quarterback essentially has added a starting QB, a solid DLineman, and a solid backup QB, all while retaining the key free agents we had. This draft, plus whatever future additions Ballard makes before the start of the season should make us one of the top 4-7 teams in the conference.

One could argue that KC is miles ahead of the others, but Buffalo took a step back, and only HOU and BALT have any additions that look to benefit their teams. Maybe JAX has improved, but the jury is still out on them. We can be in the mix for the division (despite the moves HOU made), and be one of the contenders in the AFC.

ChaosTheory 04-05-2024 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295370)
Show me where Ballard has made moves to indicate he believes the teams window is open at any point in his tenure. I don’t believe he see things in windows which is my point and a big issue I have with him. The roster is largely managed the same regardless of what state it is. I contend that’s a mistake. You are pointing out arguments that are irrelevant. If you don’t believe teams should work in windows and tailor their moves to their situation then fine, say that. That’s a different discussion. Otherwise tell me how I’m wrong and show me the obvious difference in roster management from when Ballard is in win now mode to when he is in rebuild mode.

I told you, it's a flawed premise. I can never show you where Ballard made moves to indicate he believes the team's window is open... because you don't believe any of Ballard's moves indicate the team's window is open.

You suppose there's this intrinsic truth that you must make FA or trade splashes with big-name players or you're not actually trying to win. So his draft-and-re-sign method is never going to look like a win-now move under that supposition.

And like Dam mentioned, moves he does make, like selling a 1st and 3rd for Wentz, don't seem to count. After the shock of Luck's retirement, '20, '21, and '22 each with a new vet-QB wasn't an attempt to win now?

We've been down the road of me asking for specifics about what Ballard could/should do differently, but all I'll hear is "not my job." And that bypasses the complicated fact that it's a zero-sum game.

rm1369 04-05-2024 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 295376)
My guess is there is nothing that can happen for you to think Ballard is capable. For the rest of us, we see the possibilities that a franchise QB opens up for a team. Without one, there is no chance. We think we have found one, and the team is solid behind him. The team that was one play from the playoff with a backup quarterback essentially has added a starting QB, a solid DLineman, and a solid backup QB, all while retaining the key free agents we had. This draft, plus whatever future additions Ballard makes before the start of the season should make us one of the top 4-7 teams in the conference.

One could argue that KC is miles ahead of the others, but Buffalo took a step back, and only HOU and BALT have any additions that look to benefit their teams. Maybe JAX has improved, but the jury is still out on them. We can be in the mix for the division (despite the moves HOU made), and be one of the contenders in the AFC.

I think Ballard is plenty capable. He’s a very good drafter overall which admittedly is an important quality for a GM. I like his overall demeanor. I want the guy to succeed. Of course anything short of saying Ballard is great is met with criticism and excuses. No matter what is done, the most logical and really only possible choice is whatever Ballard did. So I’ve started asking people to go on record of when the window for this team starts and what they expect that to mean philosophy wise. I’m curious what the excuses will be when Ballard continues his same philosophy.

People started coming to Ballard’s defense because I disagreed with your statement that Ballard saw a window with Rivers. I’ve asked for examples of where Ballard has made a “win now” move and I still don’t have one. I don’t because Ballard has never done it. But instead of just saying he hasn’t and shouldn’t have, the defenders are throwing out all kinds of other defenses. The guy doesn’t seem to change his approach no matter the roster makeup or QB situation. He’s going to resign the guys he likes, he’s going to be extremely cautious in free agency, he’s going to lean heavy on the draft, and he’s ok gifting positions to rookies and young players while letting them grow into them. Good or bad that is pretty clearly Ballard. I’d much rather argue about if that is a smart philosophy or not than keep arguing with guys trying to tell me Ballard is aggressive or has made multiple “win now” type moves.

Racehorse 04-05-2024 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295381)
I think Ballard is plenty capable. He’s a very good drafter overall which admittedly is an important quality for a GM. I like his overall demeanor. I want the guy to succeed. Of course anything short of saying Ballard is great is met with criticism and excuses. No matter what is done, the most logical and really only possible choice is whatever Ballard did. So I’ve started asking people to go on record of when the window for this team starts and what they expect that to mean philosophy wise. I’m curious what the excuses will be when Ballard continues his same philosophy.

People started coming to Ballard’s defense because I disagreed with your statement that Ballard saw a window with Rivers. I’ve asked for examples of where Ballard has made a “win now” move and I still don’t have one. I don’t because Ballard has never done it. But instead of just saying he hasn’t and shouldn’t have, the defenders are throwing out all kinds of other defenses. The guy doesn’t seem to change his approach no matter the roster makeup or QB situation. He’s going to resign the guys he likes, he’s going to be extremely cautious in free agency, he’s going to lean heavy on the draft, and he’s ok gifting positions to rookies and young players while letting them grow into them. Good or bad that is pretty clearly Ballard. I’d much rather argue about if that is a smart philosophy or not than keep arguing with guys trying to tell me Ballard is aggressive or has made multiple “win now” type moves.

You know there is nothing wrong with that approach, right? Build a team through the draft. Hire good coaches to improve the talent on the roster. Re-sign the best players you develop, and cut the losses on those who don't work out. Trade for proven players when possible. Manage the cap well enough to allow for player development and remain flexible enough to not have to make roster cuts that hurt, like trading Tyreek or Diggs. it CAN be done that way, with adding a few key free agents in lieu of the splash signings everyone is clamoring for, right?

rm1369 04-05-2024 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 295379)
I told you, it's a flawed premise. I can never show you where Ballard made moves to indicate he believes the team's window is open... because you don't believe any of Ballard's moves indicate the team's window is open.

Try me out. Show me where Ballard has managed his roster and risked the future to win now. I’ll say this, if he has then it probably didn’t work out did it? The team hasn’t done a bunch of winning under him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 295379)
You suppose there's this intrinsic truth that you must make FA or trade splashes with big-name players or you're not actually trying to win. So his draft-and-re-sign method is never going to look like a win-now move under that supposition.

Ahh yes the typical “you want big names” defense. I’ve stated many times that I’d be more than happy with mid level vets at known weak positions. It doesn’t have to be big names, but waiting until next years draft isn’t “win now”. Having no DE on the roster with double digit sacks in their career isn’t win now. Depending on a 3rd round rookie LT who has only played the position for two years to protect the most immobile QB in the league isnt win now. Throwing out 5 first and second year CBs to see what sticks isn’t win now. Do teams get forced into those types of situations occasionally? Of course. But it has happened so much with Ballard that it is clearly his philosophy. Hell he pretty much says as much. Why is that so hard to fucking admit? Instead you want to play word games about it. Just defend the fucking philosophy and quit trying to pretend Ballard is doing something he’s not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 295379)
And like Dam mentioned, moves he does make, like selling a 1st and 3rd for Wentz, don't seem to count. After the shock of Luck's retirement, '20, '21, and '22 each with a new vet-QB wasn't an attempt to win now?

So Wentz was a win now move? Ok. Show me the rest of the moves to show they went all in with Wentz. Was it letting Autry walk to the Titans because you didn’t want to pay him? Or was it depending on a pass rush with no DE with double digit sacks for their career? I’d say it’s obvious we disagree on what win now means. But hey if you are right and that was Ballard’s swing year then yeah maybe I don’t want him to swing. For the record I have never criticized Ballard for Wentz, it was a shot worth shooting. But no it wasn’t win now. He followed his usually philosophy for the roster - just look at DE. And it was the one time I think it was defensible because he was young enough to provide a window going forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 295379)
We've been down the road of me asking for specifics about what Ballard could/should do differently, but all I'll hear is "not my job." And that bypasses the complicated fact that it's a zero-sum game.

Not gift positions to rookies. Bring in more mid level vets to compete for known weak positions. When there is a window, be more aggressive with contract structure that aligns with your window. There I gave you what I want Ballard to do differently. Not what you want though is it? You want me to tell you exactly what players to sign. That makes it easier to talk away the issues and not look at the trends or philosophy.

rm1369 04-05-2024 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 295382)
You know there is nothing wrong with that approach, right? Build a team through the draft. Hire good coaches to improve the talent on the roster. Re-sign the best players you develop, and cut the losses on those who don't work out. Trade for proven players when possible. Manage the cap well enough to allow for player development and remain flexible enough to not have to make roster cuts that hurt, like trading Tyreek or Diggs. it CAN be done that way, with adding a few key free agents in lieu of the splash signings everyone is clamoring for, right?

Yes it can be done that way. It is a viable method. Polian’s Colts followed largely the same philosophy. And I believe it cost them rings. They traded greatness for longevity IMO. Every method has strengths and weaknesses. The strength to this one is obvious, the weakness is not peaking and not adapting. What I see are teams that are willing to take more risks winning big more. It may mean more ups and downs, but that comes with built in advantages too - better draft picks. We have Irsay’s meddling to thank for AR, not Ballard. That’s just the most obvious example why a lost season isnt always a bad thing. Especially if you have the QB in place. To me it doesn’t make sense to not consider the window open now. If you do and AR is good, you help his development by giving him support, lessening his load, and you add a year to the window. If he sucks, well isnt it better to bottom out and have a shot at another QB? We saw where mediocre got us when the team had no QB. Why go back there? Restructure a deal or two, be aggressive looking at a 2-3 yr window, and see where AR takes you.

And I will say for the 1000th time that doesn’t necessarily have to be big names. It can be, but doesn’t have to be.

Dam8610 04-05-2024 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295367)
We can debate the risk in those moves, but I just don’t see how they are relevant to my point. Show me where Ballard has managed the roster to “win now”. That’s the discussion. I contend Ballard doesn’t view things that way and I believe regardless of ARs development he will continue managing the roster as he always has. If you see evidence to the contrary please provide it. The same year he traded for Wentz he had a roster that had no DE on the team with double digit sacks. Total. For their career. So the team certainly didn’t enter win now mode because he acquired Wentz.

How can I show you something if I hit you over the head with it and you still deny its existence? Trading a 1 for Wentz was a "win now" move. It was not a "completely sacrifice the future for this one season" move, which it feels like is what some of Ballard's critics are looking for, but it certainly wasn't about planning for the future.

rm1369 04-05-2024 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 295388)
How can I show you something if I hit you over the head with it and you still deny its existence? Trading a 1 for Wentz was a "win now" move. It was not a "completely sacrifice the future for this one season" move, which it feels like is what some of Ballard's critics are looking for, but it certainly wasn't about planning for the future.

So Ballard went into a “win now” season with no DE with double digit sacks for their career? To me that’s a hell of an indictment of him.

I give Ballard much more credit than that. Wentz was an attempt to solve the long term QB issue. He applied his standard philosophy to the rest of the roster which is how you end up letting Autry walk and having what they had at DE for that season. It was a developmental year at DE. Ironically it is the one time I think it can be argued it made sense. Wentz was young enough to be the long term solution and he wasn’t on a rookie contract so not much was wasted letting him prove his worth. Rivers and Ryan are much closer to win now moves. The issue is he didn’t support them with the rest of the roster. He allowed key known weaknesses to wait until next year or expected rookies to learn on the job. And yes, by definition to me “win now” means sacrificing / risking some of the future for now. I think you are confusing win now with aggressive. If you expect a guy can be your solution for 4-6 years then how is that considered a “win now” move? For example, trading up to get the QB you want may be aggressive, but it’s rarely “win now”. Ballard’s aggressiveness IS another criticism of him, but the two things are not necessarily the same. I dislike his overall roster management because I seem little to no change in philosophy based on the roster construction and specifically the QB situation. Which is what defines every Ballard conversation.

Racehorse 04-05-2024 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295387)
Yes it can be done that way. It is a viable method. Polian’s Colts followed largely the same philosophy. And I believe it cost them rings. They traded greatness for longevity IMO. Every method has strengths and weaknesses. The strength to this one is obvious, the weakness is not peaking and not adapting. What I see are teams that are willing to take more risks winning big more. It may mean more ups and downs, but that comes with built in advantages too - better draft picks. We have Irsay’s meddling to thank for AR, not Ballard. That’s just the most obvious example why a lost season isnt always a bad thing. Especially if you have the QB in place. To me it doesn’t make sense to not consider the window open now. If you do and AR is good, you help his development by giving him support, lessening his load, and you add a year to the window. If he sucks, well isnt it better to bottom out and have a shot at another QB? We saw where mediocre got us when the team had no QB. Why go back there? Restructure a deal or two, be aggressive looking at a 2-3 yr window, and see where AR takes you.

And I will say for the 1000th time that doesn’t necessarily have to be big names. It can be, but doesn’t have to be.

For the most part, the Cheatriots used a similar method and were more successful. Yes, they cheated, but they also proved that you can sustain success if you have the QB in place, and you manage the cap well. The window does not require a QB on a rookie contract.

Racehorse 04-05-2024 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 295390)
So Ballard went into a “win now” season with no DE with double digit sacks for their career? To me that’s a hell of an indictment of him.

You keep saying this, but sacks are not the only measure of a good defense.

rm1369 04-05-2024 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 295391)
For the most part, the Cheatriots used a similar method and were more successful. Yes, they cheated, but they also proved that you can sustain success if you have the QB in place, and you manage the cap well. The window does not require a QB on a rookie contract.

The Patriots were the exact opposite of the colts. No they didn’t buy big name free agents often, but they took chances on veteran players constantly and reinvented their team constantly. Just the top of my head they traded for:

Randy Moss
Corey Dillon
Danny Amendola
Wes Welker

And I believe signed Darrell Revis as a free agent. Plenty more guys they acquired other than in the draft. They loved experienced vets. They changed much more than the Colts did and you didn’t see them with the same weaknesses year after year either.

Yes having a hall of fame level QB makes sustained success easier. I don’t disagree.

No a rookie contract isnt a requirement, but it’s a significant advantage. Especially for a team that wants to straight line contracts.

rm1369 04-05-2024 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 295392)
You keep saying this, but sacks are not the only measure of a good defense.

Maybe not. But scroll through the list of highest paid defensive players in the league and tell me what the majority of players are known for. Pass rushers are highly valued for a reason. Seeing how it matters so little, I’m curious why you think Ballard has invested so many resources into finding one?

It’s crazy to me that instead of conceding the obvious (that Ballard didn’t go into win now mode with Wentz) you’d rather try to minimize the importance of pass rushers in the modern NFL.


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