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-   -   Saturday is clueless (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154809)

Spike 11-29-2022 01:48 PM

Saturday is clueless
 
In his postgame presser, Saturday made a comment saying time was not of the essence on that last drive. Really Jeff?

He should have owned that shit, everyone else knows he fucked it up. May not have won anyway, but damn that was ridiculous.

This team is a clusterfuck and an embarrassment.

Colts And Orioles 11-29-2022 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike (Post 252206)



Saturday is Clueless




o


I don't think that he was so much clueless as he was ball-less when he answered that question ...... I think that he knows damned well that time was of the essence, but he didn't want to admit that he had a brain-freeze at the worst time.

o

YDFL Commish 11-29-2022 03:16 PM

Yeah, that was about as bad as it gets. Definitely his Jim Caldwell moment.

Spike 11-29-2022 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 252221)
o


I don't think that he was so much clueless as he was ball-less when he answered that question ...... I think that he knows damned well that time was of the essence, but he didn't want to admit that he had a brain-freeze at the worst time.

o

Everyone already knows he had a brain freeze, true leaders admit their mistakes. It just makes him look stupid. There is no excuse, and I know you are not excusing him, but that was 3rd grade level stupid coaching. He has been in this league a long damn time, he should have known better.

Colts And Orioles 11-29-2022 04:04 PM

o

It would have been awesome for a wide receiver or an offensive lineman to have called a time-out after Ryan scrambled for those 14 yards ...... they may be under strict instructions not to do so, but defying your coach in a situation like that would have been right up there with Peyton Manning calling Tony Dungy's punt-team off of the field on 4th down when the Colts were trailing by a score of 21-3 late in the 3rd quarter in a playoff game against the Steelers.



"I had not yet learned that is better to be chastised for doing the right thing than to have to live with regret for being obedient and doing the wrong thing."


Bill Walton, on wishing that he had defied legendary coach John Wooden and called a timeout in UCLA's loss to Notre Dame in 1974, a loss that ended their 88-game winning streak.

o

Chaka 11-29-2022 05:02 PM

Saturday's statement is being taken out of context, and it just seems like this is more about people going out of their way to criticize Saturday b/c they didn't like the fact that Irsay hired him in the first place.

First, it literally had no impact on the game, so it's all about nothing. They didn't run out of time, they lost the ball on downs. You can argue that they wouldn't have needed to rush the Taylor run, but Saturday explained that already had the next play decided and it's not crazy to think that rushing the play could work to your advantage if the Steelers were tired or unprepared. Granted it didn't work out that way, but it's a defensible position.

Second, I watched the post-game questions and he wasn't saying that they weren't rushed or anything, just that it wasn't necessary in his mind to use a timeout at that moment, as he felt the remaining time was adequate (i.e. time was not of the essence). On the prior play, Ryan was down with 50 seconds left on the clock, and they next hiked the ball with 33 seconds left (Saturday did say he wished they had hiked the ball a little faster, and it looks like they could have saved a few seconds by doing so).

So, in the end, they chose a timeout over 17 seconds (assuming the timeout was called the moment Ryan stopped sliding forward). I'm sure most HCs would have taken a timeout but, again, I think Saturday's position is defensible and it hardly merits treating him like an idiot. He had 33 seconds left, with three timeouts, and they were at the Steelers' 26 yard line. That should be plenty of time to score, and they could use the entire field in doing so. By using a timeout, they'd have 50 seconds and two timeouts. Maybe the latter is slightly better, but not dramatically so.

Look, I thought hiring Saturday was crazy and potentially disastrous as well, but give the guy a fair chance. Many of these commentators seem so ready belittle the guy so they can prove their working thesis that you can only hire an experienced coach. I mean, everyone's focused on whether the Colts are playing any better under Saturday, but nobody ever asks whether they're playing any worse. If Saturday and Frazier are that bad, then you'd expect them to play worse than when they were being coached by an experienced coach/playcaller, right? Yes, you're of course looking for improvement, but the thesis that he's unqualified rests on the assumption that he can't perform as well as an experienced coach.

It's all so absurd. Keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance.

JAFF 11-29-2022 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 252241)
Saturday's statement is being taken out of context, and it just seems like this is more about people going out of their way to criticize Saturday b/c they didn't like the fact that Irsay hired him in the first place.

First, it literally had no impact on the game, so it's all about nothing. They didn't run out of time, they lost the ball on downs. You can argue that they wouldn't have needed to rush the Taylor run, but Saturday explained that already had the next play decided and it's not crazy to think that rushing the play could work to your advantage if the Steelers were tired or unprepared. Granted it didn't work out that way, but it's a defensible position.

Second, I watched the post-game questions and he wasn't saying that they weren't rushed or anything, just that it wasn't necessary in his mind to use a timeout at that moment, as he felt the remaining time was adequate (i.e. time was not of the essence). On the prior play, Ryan was down with 50 seconds left on the clock, and they next hiked the ball with 33 seconds left (Saturday did say he wished they had hiked the ball a little faster, and it looks like they could have saved a few seconds by doing so).

So, in the end, they chose a timeout over 17 seconds (assuming the timeout was called the moment Ryan stopped sliding forward). I'm sure most HCs would have taken a timeout but, again, I think Saturday's position is defensible and it hardly merits treating him like an idiot. He had 33 seconds left, with three timeouts, and they were at the Steelers' 26 yard line. That should be plenty of time to score, and they could use the entire field in doing so. By using a timeout, they'd have 50 seconds and two timeouts. Maybe the latter is slightly better, but not dramatically so.

Look, I thought hiring Saturday was crazy and potentially disastrous as well, but give the guy a fair chance. Many of these commentators seem so ready belittle the guy so they can prove their working thesis that you can only hire an experienced coach. I mean, everyone's focused on whether the Colts are playing any better under Saturday, but nobody ever asks whether they're playing any worse. If Saturday and Frazier are that bad, then you'd expect them to play worse than when they were being coached by an experienced coach/playcaller, right? Yes, you're of course looking for improvement, but the thesis that he's unqualified rests on the assumption that he can't perform as well as an experienced coach.

It's all so absurd. Keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance.

A rational response in an irrational setting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sED4fzIV0k

Spike 11-29-2022 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 252241)
Saturday's statement is being taken out of context, and it just seems like this is more about people going out of their way to criticize Saturday b/c they didn't like the fact that Irsay hired him in the first place.

First, it literally had no impact on the game, so it's all about nothing. They didn't run out of time, they lost the ball on downs. You can argue that they wouldn't have needed to rush the Taylor run, but Saturday explained that already had the next play decided and it's not crazy to think that rushing the play could work to your advantage if the Steelers were tired or unprepared. Granted it didn't work out that way, but it's a defensible position.

Second, I watched the post-game questions and he wasn't saying that they weren't rushed or anything, just that it wasn't necessary in his mind to use a timeout at that moment, as he felt the remaining time was adequate (i.e. time was not of the essence). On the prior play, Ryan was down with 50 seconds left on the clock, and they next hiked the ball with 33 seconds left (Saturday did say he wished they had hiked the ball a little faster, and it looks like they could have saved a few seconds by doing so).

So, in the end, they chose a timeout over 17 seconds (assuming the timeout was called the moment Ryan stopped sliding forward). I'm sure most HCs would have taken a timeout but, again, I think Saturday's position is defensible and it hardly merits treating him like an idiot. He had 33 seconds left, with three timeouts, and they were at the Steelers' 26 yard line. That should be plenty of time to score, and they could use the entire field in doing so. By using a timeout, they'd have 50 seconds and two timeouts. Maybe the latter is slightly better, but not dramatically so.

Look, I thought hiring Saturday was crazy and potentially disastrous as well, but give the guy a fair chance. Many of these commentators seem so ready belittle the guy so they can prove their working thesis that you can only hire an experienced coach. I mean, everyone's focused on whether the Colts are playing any better under Saturday, but nobody ever asks whether they're playing any worse. If Saturday and Frazier are that bad, then you'd expect them to play worse than when they were being coached by an experienced coach/playcaller, right? Yes, you're of course looking for improvement, but the thesis that he's unqualified rests on the assumption that he can't perform as well as an experienced coach.

It's all so absurd. Keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance.

I didn't bitch about the Saturday hire. I didn't give a shit at that point. The season is lost anyways. But these coaches who don't know when and how to use a timeout frustrates me. Again, it's not brain surgery. Our 80 year old QB just ran for a lot of yards, give him time to recuperate and quit acting like time is not of the essence. I don't care if Saturday continues to be the coach. I'm just a fan who calls out the bullshit when I see it.

Lov2fish 11-29-2022 06:06 PM

Saturday said today he made a mistake and if he should have called a timeout. I respect he owned it. Maybe a day later, but he did admit he made a mistake. He is literally by the truest definition a rookie coach. He will make mistakes, but as long as they are not repeated over and over it is growth. Hell nobody knows, but this could be the next Lombardi in training. I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, mainly cause right now we don't have a choice.

Spike 11-29-2022 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lov2fish (Post 252250)
Saturday said today he made a mistake and if he should have called a timeout. I respect he owned it. Maybe a day later, but he did admit he made a mistake. He is literally by the truest definition a rookie coach. He will make mistakes, but as long as they are not repeated over and over it is growth. Hell nobody knows, but this could be the next Lombardi in training. I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, mainly cause right now we don't have a choice.

Good deal. Glad he owned it. Now, I take back the Saturday is clueless statement.

IndyNorm 11-29-2022 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 252227)
Yeah, that was about as bad as it gets. Definitely his Jim Caldwell moment.

It was bad, but not as bad as Caldwell's career ending timeout. About the only thing that was worse than Caldwell's timeout was the Clappy McWoodchopper fake punt special :confused:

Thorgrim 11-29-2022 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lov2fish (Post 252250)
Saturday said today he made a mistake and if he should have called a timeout. I respect he owned it. Maybe a day later, but he did admit he made a mistake. He is literally by the truest definition a rookie coach. He will make mistakes, but as long as they are not repeated over and over it is growth. Hell nobody knows, but this could be the next Lombardi in training. I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, mainly cause right now we don't have a choice.

Dude f'd up plain and simple. Hurt his teams chances for a win. Glad he owned it albeit a day late. Move on.

ukcolt 11-30-2022 07:23 AM

The lack of a timeout, had no bearing on the result of the game in any way. They were ready, and ran the play as planned, it didn't work, we turned the ball over on downs, end of. If we had converted the 4th down, we use the timeout and stop the clock immediately.

Coaches use timeouts far too early in my opinion generally in a 2 minute situation. With 3 timeouts left in the last 20 seconds, you should easily be able to run at least 3 plays.

We lost this game in the 1st half, not in the final minute.

rm1369 11-30-2022 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcolt (Post 252282)
The lack of a timeout, had no bearing on the result of the game in any way. They were ready, and ran the play as planned, it didn't work, we turned the ball over on downs, end of. If we had converted the 4th down, we use the timeout and stop the clock immediately.

Coaches use timeouts far too early in my opinion generally in a 2 minute situation. With 3 timeouts left in the last 20 seconds, you should easily be able to run at least 3 plays.

We lost this game in the 1st half, not in the final minute.

The lack of a timeout certainly affected the outcome of the game. It’s not just about the time remaining on the clock. Saturday himself admits the team was in disarray. That was Saturday’s words. Taking a timeout to regroup made absolute sense - especially considering the time remaining. Not to mention the lack of a timeout dictated the personnel grouping and therefore limited the play selection - a pretty big point considering the defender claims he knew what was coming by the alignment.

And I’ll ask - if time wasn’t an issue and there was no need to regroup or talk anything over, why call the timeout before 4th down? Probably to regroup and make sure they had what they thought was the best play regardless of personnel groupings. The reality is they should have called timeout after the sack. They ran 36 seconds to get to the next play and were lucky Ryan’s scrambled bailed them out. Rookie coach, it happens. But 3/4 of the people defending it would have been criticizing Reich for it.

HoosierinFL 11-30-2022 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcolt (Post 252282)
The lack of a timeout, had no bearing on the result of the game in any way. They were ready, and ran the play as planned, it didn't work, we turned the ball over on downs, end of. If we had converted the 4th down, we use the timeout and stop the clock immediately.

Coaches use timeouts far too early in my opinion generally in a 2 minute situation. With 3 timeouts left in the last 20 seconds, you should easily be able to run at least 3 plays.

We lost this game in the 1st half, not in the final minute.

I agree - I sort of thought he should have called a timeout sooner, but time really wasn't really a big factor there. A time out might have been useful for thinking up a better play perhaps but not because of time.

Colts And Orioles 11-30-2022 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 252308)



The lack of a timeout certainly affected the outcome of the game. It’s not just about the time remaining on the clock. Saturday himself admits the team was in disarray. That was Saturday’s words. Taking a timeout to regroup made absolute sense - especially considering the time remaining. Not to mention the lack of a timeout dictated the personnel grouping and therefore limited the play selection - a pretty big point considering the defender claims he knew what was coming by the alignment.

And I’ll ask - if time wasn’t an issue and there was no need to regroup or talk anything over, why call the timeout before 4th down? Probably to regroup and make sure they had what they thought was the best play regardless of personnel groupings. The reality is they should have called timeout after the sack. They ran 36 seconds to get to the next play and were lucky Ryan’s scrambled bailed them out. Rookie coach, it happens. But 3/4 of the people defending it would have been criticizing Reich for it.



o


I agree ...... after Ryan's 14-yard scramble, the Colts were in a very manageable 3-and-3 ...... rushing the next play, which resulted in a 1-yard loss, completely changed the complexion of the situation for the Colts. If they had immediately called timeout after Ryan went down, they would have had plenty of time to re-group, and perhaps get a less predictable play called.

Everything that happens in a fluid sport like football has a cause-and-effect factor ...... and I believe that this situation was an example of that.


That said, the Colts once again put themselves in a position to get themselves kicked in the ass. If they had not played so horribly in the first half, they might not have been in such dire straits in the final minute of the game. And yes, they probably got jobbed on the no-call of a pass interference on their final play from scrimmage, but their inconsistent play up until that point in the game made them vulnerable to needing the help of the referees on one solitary play in the final seconds of the 4th quarter.

o

Chaka 11-30-2022 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 252308)
The lack of a timeout certainly affected the outcome of the game. It’s not just about the time remaining on the clock. Saturday himself admits the team was in disarray. That was Saturday’s words. Taking a timeout to regroup made absolute sense - especially considering the time remaining. Not to mention the lack of a timeout dictated the personnel grouping and therefore limited the play selection - a pretty big point considering the defender claims he knew what was coming by the alignment.

And I’ll ask - if time wasn’t an issue and there was no need to regroup or talk anything over, why call the timeout before 4th down? Probably to regroup and make sure they had what they thought was the best play regardless of personnel groupings. The reality is they should have called timeout after the sack. They ran 36 seconds to get to the next play and were lucky Ryan’s scrambled bailed them out. Rookie coach, it happens. But 3/4 of the people defending it would have been criticizing Reich for it.

1) The media criticism leveled at Saturday following the game has almost exclusively been about the time remaining on the clock. Those criticisms are unwarranted, in my view, and driven largely by the need to justify the criticism of hiring Saturday in the first place.

2) The criticism about the timeout being needed due to the team being in disarray seems perfectly reasonable and fair if true (and it certainly seems to be as Saturday acknowledges this). He should be assessing their preparedness in making his strategic decisions, but it sounds like he was more intent on catching the Steelers off guard, and ignored or did not recognize the signs that the Colts weren’t ready themselves. Again, fair point, but it seems more like a garden-variety coaching mistake rather than some sort of proof that the guy is in over his head.

What irritates me is the narrative pushed by the media that Saturday is so inexperienced that he doesn’t even know enough to call a simple TO when time is melting away. He offered a perfectly reasonable explanation for his decisionmaking in this regard, and nobody has contradicted it. I'm NOT saying Saturday is the coaching answer, only that this is weak evidence that he's not.

3) As to taking a TO after the sack, I’d imagine you’d get the same answer – there is no need to do so as there was ample time left on the clock. Maybe the team was in disarray then too, but 36 seconds might be enough to clear things up. And don’t forget, while the Colts want to keep enough time on the clock to score, they also need to ensure that the Steelers don’t have enough time left to turn around and kick a game-winning FG.

4) Lastly, why did they take a TO before 4th down? Because its 4th down, and because there were only about 30 seconds left at the time.

Racehorse 11-30-2022 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 252345)
1) The media criticism leveled at Saturday following the game has almost exclusively been about the time remaining on the clock. Those criticisms are unwarranted, in my view, and driven largely by the need to justify the criticism of hiring Saturday in the first place.

2) The criticism about the timeout being needed due to the team being in disarray seems perfectly reasonable and fair if true (and it certainly seems to be as Saturday acknowledges this). He should be assessing their preparedness in making his strategic decisions, but it sounds like he was more intent on catching the Steelers off guard, and ignored or did not recognize the signs that the Colts weren’t ready themselves. Again, fair point, but it seems more like a garden-variety coaching mistake rather than some sort of proof that the guy is in over his head.

What irritates me is the narrative pushed by the media that Saturday is so inexperienced that he doesn’t even know enough to call a simple TO when time is melting away. He offered a perfectly reasonable explanation for his decisionmaking in this regard, and nobody has contradicted it. I'm NOT saying Saturday is the coaching answer, only that this is weak evidence that he's not.

3) As to taking a TO after the sack, I’d imagine you’d get the same answer – there is no need to do so as there was ample time left on the clock. Maybe the team was in disarray then too, but 36 seconds might be enough to clear things up. And don’t forget, while the Colts want to keep enough time on the clock to score, they also need to ensure that the Steelers don’t have enough time left to turn around and kick a game-winning FG.

4) Lastly, why did they take a TO before 4th down? Because its 4th down, and because there were only about 30 seconds left at the time.

Point 1 is the real reason we are hearing so much about it.


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