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Chromeburn 03-01-2019 12:57 PM

Landon Collins
 
I thought we had a Collins thread but I couldn’t find it.

Looks like Collins is going to hit the market. He threatened to sit out the season like Bell if he was tagged. Also the Giants don’t want to pay him 11 million as a tagged player. I think he would be a good fit here at SS. Giant fans complain about his coverage but tackling is a lost art and he is often fixing mistakes made by other players on that defense. As an in box safety he is very good.

Coltsalr 03-01-2019 12:59 PM

He’d be a great fit (seems like he’d be the perfect complement to Hooker) and to my knowledge he doesn’t have any red flags that would make Ballard shy away.

As a nice bonus, it’d be yet more evidence that Grigson should’ve drafted him.

VeveJones007 03-01-2019 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 111017)
I thought we had a Collins thread but I couldn’t find it.

Looks like Collins is going to hit the market. He threatened to sit out the season like Bell if he was tagged. Also the Giants don’t want to pay him 11 million as a tagged player. I think he would be a good fit here at SS. Giant fans complain about his coverage but tackling is a lost art and he is often fixing mistakes made by other players on that defense. As an in box safety he is very good.

I’ll believe it when I see it. He’s too good for the Giants to simply let walk. If he somehow is available, Ballard should jump into that market quickly.

Chromeburn 03-01-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 111019)
I’ll believe it when I see it. He’s too good for the
Giants to simply let walk. If he somehow is available, Ballard should jump into that market quickly.

My source was NFL radio this morning. But here are some recent articles from
PFT

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...andon-collins/

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...son-if-tagged/

HoosierinFL 03-01-2019 02:41 PM

He should def be a top target for us if he hits the market.

FatDT 03-01-2019 03:03 PM

Do we play enough single-high to warrant signing Collins? He seems to be a good box safety that struggles in coverage.

Butter 03-01-2019 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 111036)
Do we play enough single-high to warrant signing Collins? He seems to be a good box safety that struggles in coverage.

I hope Reich and Erberflus are good enough and smart enough coaches to adapt to good players.

apballin 03-01-2019 10:38 PM

Fuck yea go after him, One of the best defenders in the league when he’s on his game

Puck 03-02-2019 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 111036)
Do we play enough single-high to warrant signing Collins? He seems to be a good box safety that struggles in coverage.

I asked in another thread about Big Nickle. Could he be in the box with 2 FS or how do we run that?

2FS 1 SS. or 1FS AND 2 SS?

omahacolt 03-03-2019 10:59 PM

I don’t want this dude. Mainly because everyone else seems to want him

omahacolt 03-03-2019 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 111099)
I asked in another thread about Big Nickle. Could he be in the box with 2 FS or how do we run that?

2FS 1 SS. or 1FS AND 2 SS?

Doesn’t really matter. Unless you have 2 Malik Hookers.

Butter 03-04-2019 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 111225)
Doesn’t really matter. Unless you have 2 Malik Hookers.

2 Hookers are better than One!

Dam8610 03-04-2019 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 111249)
2 Hookers are better than One!

So you're advocating for drafting Amani, then?

Coltsalr 03-04-2019 11:46 AM

Dan Duggan from The Athletic on Landon Collins possibly hitting the open market:

Quote:

I arrived in Indianapolis for​ the​ combine​ on Tuesday​ convinced​ that despite the locker​ drama,​ there was no​​ way the Giants would let Pro Bowl safety Landon Collins walk into free agency without applying the franchise tag. But with the deadline to apply the tag approaching at 4 p.m. on Tuesday, I now believe it’s entirely possible that the Giants will let the 25-year-old hit the market.

Here’s why my view on that changed, plus news and notes on a variety of topics based on five days at the NFL’s annual gossip convention:

• It seemed like common sense for the Giants to use the franchise tag to maintain contractual control over Collins. General manager Dave Gettleman blamed the team’s 5-11 record on a lack of defensive playmakers, so surely he couldn’t just let a three-time Pro Bowler entering his prime walk out the door.

That was the impression from agents and executives I spoke to early in the week. But my take changed after Gettleman addressed the media on Wednesday.

Gettleman showed last year when he gushed nonstop about eventual No. 2 pick Saquon Barkley that he doesn’t practice much subterfuge when he speaks to the media. So it was notable that whenever Gettleman was asked about tagging Collins, the general manager only fixated on the negative implications of the move.

The franchise tag for safeties will cost $11.15 million in 2019. The Giants currently are projected to have $27 million in cap space, according to overthecap.com. Gettleman acknowledged that number is close to accurate, but then pointed out that the team has much less cap space than it appears because he plans to set aside $8-10 million to sign veterans as injury replacements during the season.

“Now that conversation’s different isn’t it?” Gettleman said of how much money is available for Collins. “Now, it’s, ‘Man, they’ve only got $17 million.’ Nothing can be done in a vacuum. You’ve got to look at the whole picture.”

Additionally, all indications point to Collins being unhappy if he gets tagged. He could follow the same path as Earl Thomas, who are both repped by agent David Mulugheta, when the Seahawks safety reported four days before the 2018 opener due to unhappiness with his contract.

“Let’s go to the conversation of eliminating distractions,” Gettleman said. “You tag a guy, he’s mad and that’s all you guys are going to write about for six months. That’s what’s going to be (in the media). So, I have to say to myself, ‘Is it worth it?’”

There still had been no discussions about a long-term contract as of late last week. That didn’t sit well with Collins’ camp, since the tag is often used to buy time to negotiate a long-term deal. But the Giants have shown no interest in making a long-term commitment to a homegrown player who was voted a team captain last season.

Gettleman spoke for approximately 53 minutes on Wednesday. At no point did he reference the benefits of locking up a young star player when discussing Collins. Instead, Gettleman focused on shrinking cap space and potential distractions. Those comments plus the lack of any progress in negotiations had me leaving Indianapolis with a completely different view of Collins’ future.

• Maybe it shouldn’t be surprising that Gettleman is willing to let Collins walk. Gettleman’s track record shows a lack of value placed on the safety position.

In five drafts as the general manager of the Panthers, Gettleman never took a safety in the first three rounds. And the biggest contract he gave to a safety was a three-year, $17 million extension to Kurt Coleman after the 2015 season.

Gettleman mostly patched the safety position together by signing veterans from the discount rack. Even with Collins on an affordable rookie contract last season, Gettleman went cheap at the position, as free safety Curtis Riley was signed to a veteran’s minimum contract.

It looks like Gettleman is going to need to replace both starting safeties this offseason. History suggests he won’t spend much to fill those holes.

• Gettleman’s desire for an $8-10 million rainy day fund struck me as high and an NFL executive agreed. The executive said his preference is to sign young players to replace injured veterans during the season so he didn’t put as much of an emphasis on setting aside money for in-season acquisitions.

The Giants went into last season with $8.9 million in cap space after signing receiver Odell Beckham Jr. to an extension, restructuring cornerback Janoris Jenkins’ contract and trading offensive lineman Brett Jones to the Vikings for a seventh-round pick in the weeks leading up to the opener. They finished with $5.9 million in cap space despite being extremely active in claiming veterans off of waivers during the season.

There are always ways to create cap space, as the Giants demonstrated with their moves in the two weeks before the start of last season. So allowing the desire to have an emergency fund limit the money available to spend in free agency seems like a questionable approach, especially for a team that is in dire need of upgrades at almost every position.

• The chatter about the Giants potentially trading Beckham just won’t die. The Athletic’s Jay Glazer doubled down on his bold prediction that Beckham would be traded, reporting on Thursday that, “In talking to sources in Indianapolis I have more confidence in my prediction if the Giants get a fair offer.”

It makes sense that the rumors about Beckham are coming from national reporters because the Giants haven’t been fueling them. They haven’t been shutting them down, either.

Gettleman repeated his line that, “We didn’t sign Odell to trade him.” Told that sounds like he didn’t intend to trade Beckham when the team gave the receiver a $90 million contract in August, Gettleman responded, “That’s good ears.”

Gettleman’s line doesn’t definitively rule out the possibility of a trade now and he seems comfortable leaving that wiggle room.

“First of all, why is it my responsibility to eliminate that speculation? Because you guys could say anything, get it cooking around the table and now I’ve got to answer that,” Gettleman said. “Am I wrong? No, I’m not wrong. So, I told you what I said. Next question.”

Gettleman’s right, but it’s not as if he’s refusing to address the Beckham speculation. He’s just doing so in a manner that keeps the door open a crack. And the rumors involving Beckham serve as a distraction, as the receiver makes it abundantly clear that he’s aware of everything said about him. If Gettleman said the Giants won’t trade Beckham under any circumstances, the talk would subside. But that’s a commitment Gettleman is resistant to making.

My sense is the Giants aren’t shopping Beckham, but they’re willing to listen to offers. As Glazer noted, if they get blown away by an offer, they’ll pull the trigger. The 49ers were the team that came up most often as a potential trade partner last week. The 49ers are among the league leaders in cap space ($67 million), need a No. 1 receiver for quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo and have the type of draft capital (No. 2 pick) that would entice the Giants.

As I’ve said all along, I don’t think the Giants will actually trade Beckham. But there’s too much smoke to continue to dismiss the possibility.

• The Giants publicly threw their support behind quarterback Eli Manning, who will return for his 16th season as the team’s starter.

“I’ve really been thinking about this: The narrative around Eli for the past four years, five years since I was gone was really negative,” Gettleman said. “And there’s an old saying: Tell a lie long enough, you’ll believe it. The narrative is so negative that when you take that position, most people struggle getting off that spot. Most people struggle saying, ‘I’m going to look at this with fresh eyes.’ So for example, when you evaluate pro players, every year’s a new year. When you evaluate him, it’s a new year. Yes, before, he was at this level, but that doesn’t mean when you look at him he’s automatically at this level or at this level. You’ve got to take everything for what it’s worth at that time. And I think that the narrative has been negative, and I don’t think it’s been fair.”

It was pointed out that the negativity has coincided with the Giants losing an inordinate amount of their games over that span. Gettleman conceded that was part of it, but emphasized that, “You don’t win it by yourself, you don’t lose it by yourself.”

Gettleman’s sentiment was echoed by various Giants personnel in casual conversations throughout the week. The belief in the 38-year-old isn’t just something expressed when recorders are rolling. Members of the organization truly believe that Manning has gotten too much blame and is capable of succeeding if he has proper support.

• After hearing the Giants recommit to Manning and Gettleman stating that “I’m not going there right now” when asked about lowering the quarterback’s $23.2 million cap hit, I was left to wonder what exactly Gettleman and Manning spoke about in their “no-holds barred” conversation the day after the season finale. It doesn’t seem like any particularly sticky topics have been tackled between the parties since the season ended.

• Reports surfaced last week that the Giants are trying to trade Olivier Vernon. That doesn’t come as a surprise, but it’s hard to imagine any team willing to give up much for the 28-year-old pass rusher.

The problem with moving Vernon is that he’s due $15.5 million in each of the final two seasons of the backloaded contract he signed in 2016. Expecting a team to take on that huge sum and give up a valuable draft pick is a fantasy. The best the Giants can hope for is to get a Day 3 pick for Vernon. Otherwise, cutting him is the most likely resolution. The Giants would create $11.5 million in cap savings and eat $8 million in dead money if they trade or cut Vernon before June 1.

• You always have to be on the lookout for smokescreens at this time of year, but my sense is that coach Pat Shurmur’s admiration for Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray is genuine. The 5-foot-10 Murray may not have ideal height, but Shurmur had success with 6-foot-1 Case Keenum in Minnesota in 2017. Murray is a dynamic talent and he checks the boxes of what Shurmur looks for in a quarterback: “They need to be productive, they need to make good decisions, they need to know how to throw the ball accurately, throw the ball on time, they’ve got to lead their team to victories and they’ve got to do all the things necessary to play the position.”

That sounds a lot like what Murray did at Oklahoma. But even if Murray has won over Shurmur, it would be shocking if the old-school Gettleman and the rest of a scouting apparatus that is rooted in a size-and-speed grading system falls for the Heisman Trophy winner.

• The Giants won’t tender restricted free agent Antonio Hamilton, according to Pro Football Talk. That’s not a surprising development, since the lowest tender for an RFA is around $2 million for a one-year contract (keep that figure in mind for fellow RFAs Corey Coleman and Spencer Pulley).

Hamilton emerged as an exceptional gunner in punt coverage last season, but the cornerback didn’t play a single snap on defense. The $2 million price tag is too high for a player with such a limited role. The Giants could try to sign Hamilton to a cheaper contract.

• The Giants typically play the Jets in the third game of the preseason, but that could change this year since the teams are slated to meet in the regular season. The “Snoopy Bowl” could be moved to the preseason opener and the third exhibition game, which typically most resembles an actual game, would then be against a team the Giants don’t face during the regular season.
https://theathletic.com/848484/2019/.../?redirected=1

sherck 03-04-2019 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 111258)
Dan Duggan from The Athletic on Landon Collins possibly hitting the open market:



https://theathletic.com/848484/2019/.../?redirected=1

If Landon Collins makes it to free agency, I hope he is very high on Ballard's wish list for signing free agents.

The kid is still young, a talent and fills a whole that we have. I would still want Farley back as the 3rd safety and would love to draft a kid in the draft to deliver depth duties but having a starting combo of Hooker and Collins would be great.

Walk Worthy,

FatDT 03-04-2019 12:52 PM

I'm not against Collins but having two 1st rounders as the starting safeties in this defense just seems off. If he is brought in I'll expect to see more opportunities to make plays for the safeties this year. Mayber Eberflus has plans for that.

Puck 03-04-2019 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 111225)
Doesn’t really matter. Unless you have 2 Malik Hookers.


I actually think FS and SS are the positions of need following a dominate edge rush.

Then 3 tech.

take BPA at any of those positions which could be a safety at 26. As in look at how far Hooker fell and we got him.

Coltsalr 03-04-2019 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherck (Post 111260)
If Landon Collins makes it to free agency, I hope he is very high on Ballard's wish list for signing free agents.

The kid is still young, a talent and fills a whole that we have. I would still want Farley back as the 3rd safety and would love to draft a kid in the draft to deliver depth duties but having a starting combo of Hooker and Collins would be great.

Walk Worthy,

Holder seems to think he's on Ballard's wishlist (at a price):


@HolderStephen
My hunch is the Colts are watching this Landon Collins situation closely. This breaks down where the Giants are with the looming decision of whether to franchise him:


@HolderStephen
Now, remember, the context here is this: Even if Collins makes it to the market, he will have multiple suitors. The Colts are very adamant about sticking to their assigned contract value, so they shy away from bidding wars. Stay tuned.

YDFL Commish 03-04-2019 06:44 PM

So who's the top paid safety in the league and does Collins deserve a similar contract?

Because, I'll bet that's what he will be asking for.

Dewey 5 03-04-2019 07:13 PM

1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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WFAN Sports Radio

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@WFAN660
44m44 minutes ago
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#Giants are unlikely to franchise tag safety Landon Collins before tomorrow's deadline, according to @KimJonesSports. Collins would become a free agent.
http://bit.ly/2EMIwTl
https://twitter.com/WFAN660?ref_src=...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

omahacolt 03-04-2019 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 111266)
I actually think FS and SS are the positions of need following a dominate edge rush.

Then 3 tech.

take BPA at any of those positions which could be a safety at 26. As in look at how far Hooker fell and we got him.

Well

That is absurd but ok

Maniac 03-04-2019 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 111278)
Holder seems to think he's on Ballard's wishlist (at a price):


@HolderStephen
My hunch is the Colts are watching this Landon Collins situation closely. This breaks down where the Giants are with the looming decision of whether to franchise him:


@HolderStephen
Now, remember, the context here is this: Even if Collins makes it to the market, he will have multiple suitors. The Colts are very adamant about sticking to their assigned contract value, so they shy away from bidding wars. Stay tuned.

If he hits the market, we'll get a quick look at how aggressive Ballard will or will not be.

Dewey 5 03-04-2019 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 111355)
If he hits the market, we'll get a quick look at how aggressive Ballard will or will not be.

I fully expect Freaks to freak out & meltdown when we don’t sign him. I would like to get him in Indy as much as everyone else here but there will be some team that will overpay for him & Ballard isn’t going to do that.

Puck 03-04-2019 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elaborate
Well

That is absurd but ok

Be nice if you would elaborate

Maniac 03-04-2019 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey 5 (Post 111360)
I fully expect Freaks to freak out & meltdown when we don’t sign him. I would like to get him in Indy as much as everyone else here but there will be some team that will overpay for him & Ballard isn’t going to do that.

Yeah, that will likely be the case.

Dam8610 03-04-2019 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey 5 (Post 111360)
I fully expect Freaks to freak out & meltdown when we don’t sign him. I would like to get him in Indy as much as everyone else here but there will be some team that will overpay for him & Ballard isn’t going to do that.

I don't think the market will go much above 5/60/30. There's absolutely no reason the Colts couldn't afford that contract, including Ballard's preferred method of making all the guarantees happen in years 1 and 2. So the question is do the Colts think he's worth that? I could see that going either way. That said, there aren't many safeties his size with his athleticism, and maybe none in the upcoming draft class.

omahacolt 03-04-2019 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 111361)
Be nice if you would elaborate

Hooker can play the free safety role ok for a deep single high. Guys like Farley, geathers and Mitchell can function as ss or big nickel guy. Easy to bring them back.

We have zero top notch dline talent. Need more lbers. Depth at cb is not great to be nice.

That front 7 needs a lot of help to be worried about the safeties much.

But we do have a ton of cash and can improve a lot of places.

VeveJones007 03-05-2019 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 111368)
I don't think the market will go much above 5/60/30. There's absolutely no reason the Colts couldn't afford that contract, including Ballard's preferred method of making all the guarantees happen in years 1 and 2. So the question is do the Colts think he's worth that? I could see that going either way. That said, there aren't many safeties his size with his athleticism, and maybe none in the upcoming draft class.

The Colts can afford any single player that’s available, but that doesn’t mean they should be irresponsible. If Ballard doesn’t want to go that high, he’s earned enough of my trust that he’ll still find a good SS option.

VeveJones007 03-05-2019 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 111371)
Hooker can play the free safety role ok for a deep single high. Guys like Farley, geathers and Mitchell can function as ss or big nickel guy. Easy to bring them back.

We have zero top notch dline talent. Need more lbers. Depth at cb is not great to be nice.

That front 7 needs a lot of help to be worried about the safeties much.

But we do have a ton of cash and can improve a lot of places.

Signing Collins won’t have any impact on bringing in help in the front 7.

Chromeburn 03-05-2019 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 111384)
Signing Collins won’t have any impact on bringing in help in the front 7.

It would give us one more pick in the draft to potentially use on the dline.

VeveJones007 03-05-2019 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 111385)
It would give us one more pick in the draft to potentially use on the dline.

I meant that it won’t in adversely affect it, but that might be a fair assessment as well. Though, I fully expect Ballard to draft DL & EDGE at 26 and 34 regardless of what happens in UFA.

sherck 03-05-2019 08:43 AM

So, looking down a list of "best free agents" available in 2019, I was struck by how many young, quality safeties are hitting free agency:

Landon Collins, NYG, 25
Adrian Amos, CHI, 26
Earl Thomas, SEA, 30
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, 26
Lamarcus Joyner, LAR, 28
Clayton Geathers, IND, 27
Tre Boston, ARI, 27

That is Water Football's rankings of the top seven safeties on the open market (with Mike Mitchell at #11 and Matthias Farley at #12 as an RFA). His rankings are not out of line with other rankings that I have seen.

Other that Thomas, all are under 30 and all are talented. If Collins wants too much, I have little doubt that one of the others will be in our price range.

Hooker, Free Agent, Geathers and Farley along with a lower round draft pick (of the ball hawking variety) is a good looking safety position group.

I hope that free agent is Collins but I would be happy with about anyone on that list.

Walk Worthy,

FatDT 03-05-2019 10:38 AM

FA safeties have not been getting paid the last few years. I don't know why that position has been devalued but the top 5 highest-paid safeties right now (by annual salary) are

Eric Berry - KC - $13M/year
Reshad Jones - MIA - $12M/year
Kam Chancellor - SEA - $12M/year
Harrison Smith - MIN - $10M/year
Devin McCourty - NE - $9.5M/year

The Colts can afford that type of salary easily. The question is just whether or not they want to.

VeveJones007 03-05-2019 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 111402)
FA safeties have not been getting paid the last few years. I don't know why that position has been devalued but the top 5 highest-paid safeties right now (by annual salary) are

Eric Berry - KC - $13M/year
Reshad Jones - MIA - $12M/year
Kam Chancellor - SEA - $12M/year
Harrison Smith - MIN - $10M/year
Devin McCourty - NE - $9.5M/year

The Colts can afford that type of salary easily. The question is just whether or not they want to.

Yep. I think Collins negotiations start at 5/60/30, with something like 5/65/33 getting it done. I don't know if Ballard wants to go that high, but it does sound like Collins is a good fit culture-wise and in the locker room. This will be an interesting test case to see if Ballard goes harder for certain exceptions.

omahacolt 03-05-2019 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 111386)
I meant that it won’t in adversely affect it, but that might be a fair assessment as well. Though, I fully expect Ballard to draft DL & EDGE at 26 and 34 regardless of what happens in UFA.

I have no issue bringing in Collins if Ballard thinks he is an upgrade. Safety isn’t a top need like Puck thinks.n

Coltsalr 03-05-2019 01:43 PM

@RapSheet
The #Giants have now informed S Landon Collins that he won’t be franchise tagged, putting a top player on the free agent market, sources say.

He’s hitting the open market!

If the Colts don’t get him it’ll be because Ballard didn’t want him.

Coltsalr 03-05-2019 01:53 PM

Ebron appears to agree with me:

https://twitter.com/ebron85/status/1...992795138?s=21

rcubed 03-05-2019 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 111425)
I have no issue bringing in Collins if Ballard thinks he is an upgrade. Safety isn’t a top need like Puck thinks.n

when you say not a top need, are you assuming farley and geathers will be back?

VeveJones007 03-05-2019 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 111425)
I have no issue bringing in Collins if Ballard thinks he is an upgrade. Safety isn’t a top need like Puck thinks.n

One thing to keep in mind is that Eberflus was in the same division as Collins in 2016-2017. Even though Eberflus is scheming against offenses, you have to think he would have a good impression of Collins and whether or not he would be a good fit with what he wants to do.

VeveJones007 03-05-2019 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 111429)
@RapSheet
The #Giants have now informed S Landon Collins that he won’t be franchise tagged, putting a top player on the free agent market, sources say.

He’s hitting the open market!

If the Colts don’t get him it’ll be because Ballard didn’t want him.

I disagree with the bold. Collins will be a key target for many teams. Money will be roughly equivalent for several offers, meaning that Collins can pick location, team, and scheme.

He's from Louisiana, so maybe he would prefer a team in the southeast? Maybe he'd like to be in a more attacking-oriented scheme?


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