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VeveJones007 04-10-2018 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck (Post 62583)
I have been thinking its going to be Edmunds as the pick. But he is being looked at due to his athletic ability and potential..... Does this remind you of a certain safety on the roster right now?

Remember TJ came in with great physical skills and just needed coaching. Most on here hate him and want him cut....

I know that there is a huge difference in talent but still.... would Smith or James be the better pick? Ballard can't make a mistake. Nelson is the safest pick if he is still there.... I think Ballard is pretty conservative in his approach so I wouldnt be surprised to see Nelson as the pick.

Really going to be an interesting draft to see unfold


Just something to think about
Not sure I can explain it, but I think Smith and LVE are more likely to be Ballard targets. Smith especially.

Dam8610 04-10-2018 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62623)
Not sure I can explain it, but I think Smith and LVE are more likely to be Ballard targets. Smith especially.
Edmunds is WAY more likely to be a Ballard target than Smith based on him drafting Hooker last year. Both are young, ridiculously gifted athletes that showed some talent in pads on the football field but who (barring injury, which is more of a concern for Hooker) likely have their best football ahead of them. At 19, Edmunds is 6'5" 250 and runs a 4.5 range 40. He could fall short of his potential and still be as good as Brian Urlacher.

FatDT 04-10-2018 09:38 AM
I think Edmunds is pretty far behind Smith in football aptitude. Part of that is Edmunds' age. His ceiling is higher. But his floor is lower. He will need time and coaching. Supposedly Eberflus is great with LBs. If that's true then he would be the right guy to help Edmunds reach his potential. But do you spend a top 10 pick on a project when your roster is this bad?

rm1369 04-10-2018 09:43 AM
Ballard drafted Hooker because he was BPA and fit a need. I think Edmunds is a likely Ballard target because of his size, skill, potential and team need. But that has nothing to do with the selection of Hooker last year.

sherck 04-10-2018 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 62628)
I think Edmunds is pretty far behind Smith in football aptitude. Part of that is Edmunds' age. His ceiling is higher. But his floor is lower. He will need time and coaching. Supposedly Eberflus is great with LBs. If that's true then he would be the right guy to help Edmunds reach his potential. But do you spend a top 10 pick on a project when your roster is this bad?
A "project" that has Brian Urlacher potential?

Yeah, you do.

Walk Worthy

rm1369 04-10-2018 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 62628)
I think Edmunds is pretty far behind Smith in football aptitude. Part of that is Edmunds' age. His ceiling is higher. But his floor is lower. He will need time and coaching. Supposedly Eberflus is great with LBs. If that's true then he would be the right guy to help Edmunds reach his potential. But do you spend a top 10 pick on a project when your roster is this bad?
If you believe in Edmunds potential and in Eberflus I think you do. Ballard is taking a longer term view of building the roster. That’s evident in his actions and Irsays comments. If that’s the case you definitely look for the best long term player and Edmunds has a pretty good chance to be that guy. Certainly hard to take him at 3, but at 6 or a little lower I think you take him. Ballard picking up 3 2nds in the process certainly will help ease the pain of Edmunds being slower out of the gate than others drafted that high.

Especially if LB play is a key to making this D work effectively as your analysis in the other thread seemed to show.

VeveJones007 04-10-2018 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 62625)
Edmunds is WAY more likely to be a Ballard target than Smith based on him drafting Hooker last year. Both are young, ridiculously gifted athletes that showed some talent in pads on the football field but who (barring injury, which is more of a concern for Hooker) likely have their best football ahead of them. At 19, Edmunds is 6'5" 250 and runs a 4.5 range 40. He could fall short of his potential and still be as good as Brian Urlacher.
Part of it is leadership qualities. Roquon would be the defensive QB for 10 years. Ballard seems to want that quality.

Dam8610 04-10-2018 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 62628)
I think Edmunds is pretty far behind Smith in football aptitude. Part of that is Edmunds' age. His ceiling is higher. But his floor is lower. He will need time and coaching. Supposedly Eberflus is great with LBs. If that's true then he would be the right guy to help Edmunds reach his potential. But do you spend a top 10 pick on a project when your roster is this bad?
Smith's size limits him just as much as Edmunds's lack of football aptitude, the difference being Edmunds is 19 (20 when the season starts) and can learn football better, Smith can't grow 3 inches. Edmunds could take 3 years to learn the position and be a 23 year old All-Pro in his 4th season. You're right that Edmunds's floor is lower, but I'd say it's about 80% of Smith's floor, with his ceiling being 150% of Smith's.

FatDT 04-10-2018 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62640)
Part of it is leadership qualities. Roquon would be the defensive QB for 10 years. Ballard seems to want that quality.
That's assuming he can handle NFL blockers and doesn't get injured. I'm still wary of his size.

VeveJones007 04-10-2018 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 62642)
Smith's size limits him just as much as Edmunds's lack of football aptitude, the difference being Edmunds is 19 (20 when the season starts) and can learn football better, Smith can't grow 3 inches. Edmunds could take 3 years to learn the position and be a 23 year old All-Pro in his 4th season. You're right that Edmunds's floor is lower, but I'd say it's about 80% of Smith's floor, with his ceiling being 150% of Smith's.
150% of Smith’s ceiling would be the best LB in NFL history.

VeveJones007 04-10-2018 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 62643)
That's assuming he can handle NFL blockers and doesn't get injured. I'm still wary of his size.
You have to catch him to block him. As much as we make of Edmunds combine, don’t forget that Smith ran a 4.51.

Dam8610 04-10-2018 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62649)
You have to catch him to block him. As much as we make of Edmunds combine, don’t forget that Smith ran a 4.51.
That .03 seconds on Edmunds 4.54 will make all the difference between blockers catching him vs. Smith.

FatDT 04-10-2018 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62649)
You have to catch him to block him. As much as we make of Edmunds combine, don’t forget that Smith ran a 4.51.
There are plenty of small, fast LBs. Most of them don't have Smith's college tape either, so I'll admit that. But small, fast LBs often get washed out of plays and then eventually out of the league.

VeveJones007 04-10-2018 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 62651)
That .03 seconds on Edmunds 4.54 will make all the difference between blockers catching him vs. Smith.
Duh. That wasn’t my point.

YDFL Commish 04-10-2018 07:08 PM
In Roquon Smith, I see the next Derrick Brooks. He will come in and perform at high level from day one.

He is the perfect WILL for this defense. Ever heard the phrase "spill to the WILL" ? That is the way this defense will be run. This, he's too small and gets swallowed up by blockers nonsense is complete bullshit. If everybody else does their job the WILL LB will be uncovered almost all of the time.

Cato June wasn't half the athlete and didn't read plays nearly as quickly as Roquon, and we won a SB with him at WILL.

Cato June played at 209 lbs.

FatDT 04-10-2018 07:24 PM
And Cato June is still to this day being dragged down the field by Fred Taylor.

My comments about Smith being too small are when looking at him as a MLB.

Chaka 04-11-2018 11:47 AM
Edmunds is high risk/high reward. Not saying the Colts won't roll the dice with such a player, but I personally would prefer a safer option. Too many of these project / physical freak types don't pan out or live up to expectations. Barkevious Mingo

Coltsalr 04-11-2018 12:40 PM
AllbrightNFL
Draft tidbits:

-Mayfield isnt going later than three.
-Chubb is either going two or four.
-Chargers have "legitimate significant interest in Lamar Jackson."
-Josh Allen wont fall further than Arizona.

VeveJones007 04-11-2018 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 62759)
AllbrightNFL
Draft tidbits:

-Mayfield isnt going later than three.
-Chubb is either going two or four.
-Chargers have "legitimate significant interest in Lamar Jackson."
-Josh Allen wont fall further than Arizona.
Josh Allen is going too 5, probably top 2. That makes me take everything else with a grain of salt.

rm1369 04-11-2018 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62761)
Josh Allen is going too 5, probably top 2. That makes me take everything else with a grain of salt.
If one of the big 4 slides significantly I think it will be Allen. Accuracy is a pretty damn important thing for an NFL QB and there seems to be plenty of questions about his.

VeveJones007 04-11-2018 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 62764)
If one of the big 4 slides significantly I think it will be Allen. Accuracy is a pretty damn important thing for an NFL QB and there seems to be plenty of questions about his.
Depends on how his mechanics have improved. All reports I’ve seen are positive. I’m also basing that previous statement from stuff heard on the latest Stick to Football podcast. I would definitely recommend that to anyone interested in draft buzz/player profiles.

Dam8610 04-11-2018 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62648)
150% of Smith’s ceiling would be the best LB in NFL history.
And I stand by what I said.

rm1369 04-11-2018 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62771)
Depends on how his mechanics have improved. All reports I’ve seen are positive. I’m also basing that previous statement from stuff heard on the latest Stick to Football podcast. I would definitely recommend that to anyone interested in draft buzz/player profiles.
Interesting listen. Thanks for the tip. Have they been a fairly knowledgeable source in the past?

VeveJones007 04-11-2018 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 62772)
And I stand by what I said.
Alrighty then. Then they better stay at 6 and take him if that’s the assessment.

VeveJones007 04-11-2018 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 62780)
Interesting listen. Thanks for the tip. Have they been a fairly knowledgeable source in the past?
They only started the podcast last year, but Matt Miller has been writing for Bleacher Report for several years and I trust his judgment a lot more than other draft analysts in media.

Chaka 04-11-2018 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62771)
Depends on how his mechanics have improved. All reports I’ve seen are positive. I’m also basing that previous statement from stuff heard on the latest Stick to Football podcast. I would definitely recommend that to anyone interested in draft buzz/player profiles.
Here's a not-so-positive recent assessment of Allen I was just reading earlier today:

https://www.theringer.com/2018/4/11/...tics-nfl-draft

Cliff Notes version: off the chart measurables, but the advanced stats place him with the likes of Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, and J.P. Losman.

Nevertheless, rumors persist that Cleveland may take him at No. 1

VeveJones007 04-11-2018 03:18 PM
Some interesting rumors here from Tony Pauline. Of note:

http://draftanalyst.com/nfl-draft-news-notes-april-11

Quote:
Several people I’ve spoken with speculated that the New York Giants and Buffalo Bills likely have a blueprint in place for a trade that would allow the Bills to move up to the second spot in the draft. They also believe that the trade won’t happen until very late in the process, if it happens at all, as the Giants want to field further offers.
This is heavily caveated, but it's interesting. Really, it's the smart move if NYG doesn't want to draft one of the QBs. I could definitely see a scenario where you see QBs go 1, 2 (NYG or Buffalo), 3, and 4 (Miami or Buffalo).

Chaka 04-11-2018 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62790)
Some interesting rumors here from Tony Pauline. Of note:

http://draftanalyst.com/nfl-draft-news-notes-april-11



This is heavily caveated, but it's interesting. Really, it's the smart move if NYG doesn't want to draft one of the QBs. I could definitely see a scenario where you see QBs go 1, 2 (NYG or Buffalo), 3, and 4 (Miami or Buffalo).
It would also be an ideal scenario if the Colts actually want to draft someone at #6. Who would Denver take in that case? I'm assuming they wouldn't take Chubb, and I've seen lots of projections where they take Nelson.

Chromeburn 04-11-2018 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62790)
Some interesting rumors here from Tony Pauline. Of note:

http://draftanalyst.com/nfl-draft-news-notes-april-11



This is heavily caveated, but it's interesting. Really, it's the smart move if NYG doesn't want to draft one of the QBs. I could definitely see a scenario where you see QBs go 1, 2 (NYG or Buffalo), 3, and 4 (Miami or Buffalo).
I wouldn't bet too much on them trading up. With Incognito retiring, they need a lot of picks to re-stock. Perhaps with that 12 pick and their 2nd rounders.

Chromeburn 04-11-2018 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 62690)
In Roquon Smith, I see the next Derrick Brooks. He will come in and perform at high level from day one.

He is the perfect WILL for this defense. Ever heard the phrase "spill to the WILL" ? That is the way this defense will be run. This, he's too small and gets swallowed up by blockers nonsense is complete bullshit. If everybody else does their job the WILL LB will be uncovered almost all of the time.

Cato June wasn't half the athlete and didn't read plays nearly as quickly as Roquon, and we won a SB with him at WILL.

Cato June played at 209 lbs.
Roquon can be a QB for your defense. Edmunds isn't that guy yet. Smith is more advanced mentally and his instincts are off the charts. You will need to protect him and keep blockers off him. But in the right system he will play a long time. He is a perfect fit for our D. He might fall a bit b/c he is specific to a 4-3 defense and likely the will.

Dam8610 04-11-2018 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 62824)
Roquon can be a QB for your defense. Edmunds isn't that guy yet. Smith is more advanced mentally and his instincts are off the charts. You will need to protect him and keep blockers off him. But in the right system he will play a long time. He is a perfect fit for our D. He might fall a bit b/c he is specific to a 4-3 defense and likely the will.
Key word there is "yet". The 2018 season will be Edmunds's age 20 season. Ballard likes young athletes that show good ability for the game that also have room to grow and get better (see: Hooker, Malik), so if he believes this project is more of a long term project, he's likely to value Edmunds higher than Smith.

Chromeburn 04-11-2018 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 62827)
Key word there is "yet". The 2018 season will be Edmunds's age 20 season. Ballard likes young athletes that show good ability for the game that also have room to grow and get better (see: Hooker, Malik), so if he believes this project is more of a long term project, he's likely to value Edmunds higher than Smith.
Grover and Bashem. Depends the role also and what weight Edmunds will play at.

Racehorse 04-12-2018 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 62755)
Edmunds is high risk/high reward. Not saying the Colts won't roll the dice with such a player, but I personally would prefer a safer option. Too many of these project / physical freak types don't pan out or live up to expectations. Barkevious Mingo
He was all Bark and no bite

Racehorse 04-12-2018 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 62772)
And I stand by what I said.
Of course you do

VeveJones007 04-12-2018 09:54 AM
Lots of possibilities, but I think my hope right now is:

1) CLE - Allen
2) NYG - Darnold
3) NYJ - QB3
4) MIA/BUF - QB4
5) Barkley or Nelson
6) Chubb

I think the worst-case scenario is 4 QBs + Chubb go top 5. That would really hurt trade down opportunities and I think Ballard would end up staying put and taking Smith or Edmunds.

Swing4DaFences 04-12-2018 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 62867)
Lots of possibilities, but I think my hope right now is:

1) CLE - Allen
2) NYG - Darnold
3) NYJ - QB3
4) MIA/BUF - QB4
5) Barkley or Nelson
6) Chubb

I think the worst-case scenario is 4 QBs + Chubb go top 5. That would really hurt trade down opportunities and I think Ballard would end up staying put and taking Smith or Edmunds.
I don't think that 4 QB's + Chubb scenario is remotely possible, BUT that would be the one scenario where we would definitely pick Barkley.

VeveJones007 04-12-2018 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing4DaFences (Post 62874)
I don't think that 4 QB's + Chubb scenario is remotely possible, BUT that would be the one scenario where we would definitely pick Barkley.
Are you factoring in the chance of teams trading up? I can see several scenarios where 4 QBs + Chubb go top 5.

1) QB / QB (NYG/BUF/MIA) / QB / QB (BUF/MIA) / Chubb
2) QB / Chubb / QB / QB (BUF/MIA) / QB
2) QB / QB / QB / Chubb (CLE) / QB

Dam8610 04-12-2018 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 62755)
Edmunds is high risk/high reward. Not saying the Colts won't roll the dice with such a player, but I personally would prefer a safer option. Too many of these project / physical freak types don't pan out or live up to expectations. Barkevious Mingo
Mingo was playing Edge and had questions about his ability to hold up there due to his size. You could put Edmunds at Edge, but he's more likely to be an impact player at MLB, where he has no size concerns whatsoever and is a premier athlete for the position. It does require trust that Eberflus will develop him, but with Smith, you get those same size concerns Mingo had.

Dam8610 04-12-2018 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 62759)
AllbrightNFL
Draft tidbits:

-Mayfield isnt going later than three.
-Chubb is either going two or four.
-Chargers have "legitimate significant interest in Lamar Jackson."
-Josh Allen wont fall further than Arizona.
Point number two is an obvious smokescreen.

Coltsalr 04-13-2018 09:01 AM
.@StampedeBlue has learned that Georgia OL Isaiah Wynn is in town to meet with the Colts.

Could definitely fill a Guard spot, I could see him as a solid plug and play at Guard in his rookie year.

2nd round, though. Can’t reach for him in the 1st.


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