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-   -   On the Effect of Coaching (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26798)

ATrain 11-24-2017 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 42314)
I don't agree with your premise that Pagano is a horrible head coach. Horrible head coaches have career records well below .500 and do things like make key players want to leave the team.



What about your premise that coaches don't matter? Your whole point in this thread is that coaching doesn't matter, talent and luck decide who wins.

Now in this comment you're saying coaching does matter and attributing the Colts record under pagano to pagano's ability to coach the team to wins.

Clearly you see how you're contradicting yourself... Right?


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Coltsalr 11-24-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njcoltfan (Post 42177)
Someone explain this then: D'Juan Smith and T.J.Green are 2 players that Pagano personally worked out and drafted, one is not on the team any more and the other one is no better today then he was the day they drafted him, what does that say about our defensive guru of a coach ???

Khaled Holmes was also a Pagano guy in the draft.

Clearly he’s got a real eye for talent. :rolleyes:

Brylok 11-24-2017 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 42314)
I don't agree with your premise that Pagano is a horrible head coach. Horrible head coaches have career records well below .500 and do things like make key players want to leave the team.

Pat McAfee wanted to leave the team. Vontae Davis wanted to leave the team. There are probably more that we don't know about. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd venture a guess that Pagano has a sub .500 record in the games Luck didn't play in. His win/loss record is all Andrew Luck winning despite Chuck.

rcubed 11-24-2017 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 42419)
Pat McAfee wanted to leave the team. Vontae Davis wanted to leave the team. There are probably more that we don't know about. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd venture a guess that Pagano has a sub .500 record in the games Luck didn't play in. His win/loss record is all Andrew Luck winning despite Chuck.

Most of his wins also came against the shitty afc south. His record outside our conference is not good, I don't remember the actual numbers.

ChoppedWood 11-25-2017 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoosierinFL (Post 42346)
Shit article.

1. The statistical analysis he links to is talking about luck, though he really means randomness, and it shows that 52% of wins can be attributed to random factors, and 48% are not accounted for by random factors.

But the article Dam linked mis-interprets the article and claims that the 48% is explained by player skill. The original author makes no such claim and in fact, there is no reported methodology in either article to explain how to statistically analyze team performance into player factors vs. coaching factors.

2. The fundamental attribution error occurs when we observe the behavior of others and over-estimate the role of dispositional traits to explain their behavior. Dispositional traits are things like personality, ability, etc. So if make a dispositional attribution toward a team, we would be claiming that their success (or failure) is due to internal factors like player skill OR coaching ability. If we instead made a situational attribution, we would attribute their success (or failure) to external factors like strength of schedule, officiating, etc.
This theory does not address leadership, AT ALL.

3. The illusion of control may apply but it really depends on context. Obv as the author from AFA suggests, it would be wrong to blame Harbaugh for Cundiff's missed FG. But at the same time, practice serves a purpose, it is meant to improve play and reduce mistakes. A team that makes many mistakes has either of two problems, 1) really bad players that don't get better with practice, or 2) really bad coaches who are ineffective at running a practice session.
So here, we can't eliminate bad players, but neither can we eliminate bad coaches, as explaining mistakes. In short, this becomes a non-point.

However, it might be possible to quantify team mistakes. It's difficult without knowing playcalls and assignments, but counting drops, missed blocks, abandoned gaps, miscommunication in the secondary. If this was possible to do in an objective way then coaches could be compared in terms of the number of mistakes their teams make, and this could then be used to compare coaching records.

He's also wrong about the Dungy narrative. The idea that he couldn't get it done in the post-season stuck with him after coming to Indy, and it still lingers because people say we should have won more than 1 Superbowl with Peyton Fucking Manning.

(and for the record, I actually have a PhD in experimental psychology which includes statistics)

Oh shit, someone call the fire department, I think there is a person over in the corner singed to a crisp...

Beautifully done!

apballin 11-25-2017 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 42419)
Pat McAfee wanted to leave the team. Vontae Davis wanted to leave the team. There are probably more that we don't know about. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd venture a guess that Pagano has a sub .500 record in the games Luck didn't play in. His win/loss record is all Andrew Luck winning despite Chuck.

Bullshit and Bullshit, players were lined up in support for Pagano when everyone thought he was walking in Irsay's office to get fired that day

Say what you will about the guy but players want to play for him and they've got his back

omahacolt 11-25-2017 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apballin (Post 42462)
Bullshit and Bullshit, players were lined up in support for Pagano when everyone thought he was walking in Irsay's office to get fired that day

Say what you will about the guy but players want to play for him and they've got his back

That was when he was lying to them about grigson.

ChoppedWood 11-25-2017 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 42473)
That was when he was lying to them about grigson.

That's when he was lying to them that he understood the difference between a touchdown and a 3 pointer.

Puck 11-25-2017 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 42477)
That's when he was lying to them that he understood the difference between a touchdown and a 3 pointer.

Or the Rams and the Chargers

Racehorse 11-25-2017 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 42478)
Or the Rams and the Chargers

49ers


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