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I hope we put in a real effort for McCoy. I think he could push us into being a serious contender. He would be the best interior lineman we have had since Booger. I have to believe the Saints and pats are in the mix too if he wants to go to a contender. But I think he would for best with us and in a system he would be somewhat familiar with.

He’s visited Cleveland, Baltimore, and Carolina with no rumblings of any other visits, so it would seem it’s down to those three.

There is certainly a team or two that are waiting in the weeds and have contacted his agent with "Let us know your best offer and we'll match or beat it. No visit necessary."

At least according to NFL radio. They say there are still upwards of 10 teams in play.

Good to know, thanks.

Doesn’t really sound like Ballard’s MO to just sign a guy sight unseen but a man can dream!

Game tape will tell ballard what he needs to know. The only reason he would come to indy would be to sign a contract

NFL radio said tens teams were recruiting him on Friday. Not sure if he is considering the others or not. I think we seem like a very good fit. Got the money, we should be a playoff team, got the right scheme.

He's a Panther.

Reportedly a 1 year - $8MM deal. The contract also includes some incentive clauses; it could potentially max out at $10.25MM if those are met.

https://twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status...67727195103233

Unless McCoy just didn't want to come to Indy, I think Ballard screwed up on this one.

Those numbers are SO much lower than expected. I think Carolina got themselves a good deal there, but I don't think McCoy is getting a ring in a Panthers uniform.

Had same thought

I'll wait for Chaka to give the opposing point of view on this.

Yep. Certainly seems like a big miss, especially when considering the relatively low contract $$.

People paid to evaluate this stuff in real time say he’s with 8 million a year. While he may have made this defense better (may have) he wasn’t going to be the stud difference maker everyone wants. Expected non move by Ballard

I think we missed an opportunity here. I wonder if he wanted a one year and we wanted a multi-year. He knows the division and probably wants to stay in it. But yeah, not winning a SB in Carolina next year.

Some reports are saying he liked the idea of staying in the NFC South and that playing the Bucs twice a year was a bonus. Same reports also mention him considering Baltimore and Cleveland, but nothing on the Colts. My guess is they were out of it for awhile. Hard to criticize Ballard too much for not getting any specific player. Can’t say I’m a huge fan of sitting on this much cap space though. McCoy is the kind of player I think Ballard should bring in more of to mix with all the youth.

He’s a 3 tech which was our strongest position with the front 4 last yr Not sure anyone wanted to sign another DT to take snaps from the up and coming new guys.

We don’t need another 3 tech. We need a NT

Ok cool, name an available NT that would make an impact. If one isn't available for this coming season, why not take BPA here and make it work for a year? Based on last year, exact position isn't of utmost importance between the two DT positions, so BPA and divide the snaps situationally isn't some wild suggestion.

Unless this season isn't worth going all-in on...fine, take the 9-7 or 10-6 with maybe a playoff win and on to 2020. But when Luck gets to the twilight of his career, I don't want to hear the spin of how they tried their best to field the best team year in and year out, yet came up empty. What they did was ensure the "good enoughs" were always happy and knew their spot on the depth chart was secure.

You are correct - I would have been against this move. Signing guys on the downside of their careers to high dollar contracts isn't a good use of your resources. These kind of signings are always popular when they are made because you are getting some name recognition and a history of high profile performance, but you need to look at the facts: this is a 31-year old guy on the downside of his career who was just cut by the only team he's ever known. Nothing against the guy personally, but if it was my money being spent, this isn't where I'd want to put it.

And, tellingly, after purportedly having a dozen or more teams vying for his services, he was only able to secure a one-year deal with a $4 million signing bonus.

By "resources" you must mean snaps that could go to others. You can't possibly be saying anything related to cap space.

Why, because we currently have lots of cap space remaining? You are thinking short term.

I dont understand how the cap works and will not claim to. What I want explained is what good does let's say 40 million in cap sitting there during the season do us if we come up short at winning (playoffs, AFC title game, SB )?

If this happens and this team yet again fails to get more pressure on QBs... and we will face better this year.

If the up and coming guys dont progress and the Colts are a bottom half team at pressuring the QB. Let's say McCoy gets 8 or 9 sacks for the Panthers.

Would it have hurt to sign him to a one year? Saying he isnt a fit when he is an upgrade makes no sense to me.

Again I dont claim to understand the cap and certainly the positions as much as others here.

It isn't a zero sum game. If McCoy brought the 8 sacks here, we wouldn't have a net gain of eight sacks. The snaps he would get would take them from someone else who may have gotten some of those same sacks on the same plays. maybe we get a net gain of two sacks, but maybe we get none. It is mere speculation to think he adds eight sacks to our total.

Not saying it's a zero sum game lmao. So you dont think he is an upgrade to what we have... got it.

I dont claim to know which I said.

Never said that. You seem to be a guy who wants to put words in other people's mouths. That is Damesque, so you might want to be careful. I said you can't just look at what he produces in Carolina this year and say it was a mistake unless he is an All-Pro and our guys are like swiss cheese.

I think our young guys take a big leap honestly

So do I. I think we will see them improve enough that we won't regret passing on McCoy. Now if we were talking about a NT...

Simply put, the cap is the maximum a team can spend on players in a given year. However, the NFL’s cap has several features that allows teams to manipulate it to fit their needs and strategy. One of those features pertinent to this discussion is the ability to roll unused cap space forward into future years. This feature is absolutely central to Ballard’s strategy.

Ballard’s master plan, as he’s stated repeatedly, is to build a core of homegrown players that can serve as the long-term nucleus of a Colt dynasty. This strategy relies upon drafting well, and then keeping the players that you’ve drafted into second and even third contracts.

Ballard appears to have drafted well, and seems to have several of his planned core players already in place (Luck, Nelson, Kelly, Leonard, etc.). With the exception of Luck, most of these guys are on their rookie contracts, and are thus being paid well under their market value. To keep this core together long term, Ballard knows that he will eventually need to pay these guys full market value when their rookie contracts expire. However, the cap provides an upper limit of how many of these guys you can pay in a given season, which for many teams would mean they’ll have to let a few of these guys go.

Ballard doesn’t want to do that, so rather than blowing his available cap space now on older luxury players like McCoy, Suh, etc., he’s conserving his cap space to push it forward so he’ll have extra money available to pay the Nelsons and Leonards of the world when they can become free agents. This will allow him to keep the core together and to outspend other teams in later years when that cap space will be desperately needed. It also serves the duel purpose of fostering a competitive atmosphere among the existing younger players, who know that if they perform they can earn a starting spot because they aren’t blocked by one-year veteran rentals.

This is a long term plan, and it takes courage to implement because the strategy creates irritation among the fan base, as it seems to have done here, because it seems frustrating to leave giant chunks of cap space unspent and to miss but on the opportunity to “upgrade” with big name veteran free agents. But as history has shown, those type of upgrades are expensive and rarely play to the level expected (recall that Ballard has repeatedly called free agency “fool’s gold”).

So, to answer your question (at last!), it's not only a question of signing McCoy vs. playing the incumbent, but rather a question of signing McCoy now at the risk of not having all the funds necessary to keep one of the Colts free agents in 2021 or 2022.

Me too !!! :cool:

To add to this, by carrying cap dollars into successive years, Ballard is essentially making our cap higher in the future than what it will actually be. So, when our core gets to their second or third contract and the cap is, say, $200M, we will have an effective cap of $240M. This gives us a competitive advantage down the road, if we spend the dollars well when that time comes.

Well over the cap states we will have 71 million next year in space, carrying over 57 million from this year and the cap going up (like it has done every year.)

If you think McCoy would cost an even 10 million, that would give us 61 million next year to sign our FA. Assuming we don’t replace some with draft picks. I think people just assume we will resign everyone, thats not going to happen and it is unrealistic. Beside we still have like 3 years till Leonards class is due, that is 3 potential years of SB runs. If 61 million isn’t enough to sign our upcoming 2020 FA and draft picks, well we might be overspending on our own guys.

I don’t think it’s money, it’s a question of can McCoy push you over the edge to be a SB contender. I think yes because he is better than any DT we have. He is certainly better and bigger than the bottom of our roster. And the whole NT UT doesn’t really fit because we are playing a hybrid scheme. I could see Autry and McCoy playing next to each other with similar responsibilities. I can see Stewart and the German playing next to each other on some snaps. We run a rotation and he is one of the best in the league at what we ask the DTs to do. If you think Jihad Ward is enough to get you a SB then ok, we don’t need him. I think he would have been a relatively cheap addition to a group where we have a lot of average guys.

This makes sense to me. I think he would have been a great addition.

The only correct answer to Chaka's circular argument is to just assume that who is currently on the roster is the best now and in the future. Anyone else on the market is at best a coin flip that likely adds nothing to the team. McCoy was going to get a one year contract which MEANS NOTHING to anything related to the future cap space. You could pay the man 30 million dollars and still be flush with cap space that all comes back next year since his contract would be finished, but since it takes snaps from the good enough gang and might upset one of them to the point of not re-signing here when their contract is up, the whole idea of bringing McCoy in is, in Chaka's world, a foolish notion.

When you have as much cap space as the Colts have AND you have Andrew Luck, every year should be a year in which you are going for it. Fine, McCoy didn't even have us as a legitimate option, but to summarily dismiss the idea that he could help the team? Unacceptable.

Finally, Chaka's zero-sum argument is acceptable as long as he can also go along with the idea that an 8-sack season from Houston doesn't make it a good signing if he is a complete non-factor in a playoff loss where the opposing QB had all day in the pocket.

Lots of things in football are coin flips. Draft picks, FA signings, signing guys to second or third contracts, players staying healthy.

If we can justify giving Funchess 10 million who has done nothing in the league. I don't see a problem with paying McCoy who is older but has a much better resume, and we just paid Houston who is also a great aging vet.

Problem is we won't really know till the end of the season where hindsight is perfect. I think we might be a little light on the d-line and I think teams will go after it. We did pretty well last year, doesn't gurantee we will be as good or better this year. And we got spanked in the playoffs, everyone is still riding high from the season and the positive press, but there was a huge talent gap in that game.

I also don't really like leaving money on the table when it could benefit the team this year and their chances this year. Especially when a deal like a one year contract would not impact future resignings at all.

Here is the 90 man roster at d-line. I highlighted the guys I think we are definitely keeping. McCoy would do well on this roster.

Kemoko Turay (DE)
Gerri Green (DE)
Justin Houston (DE)
Jegs Jegede (DE)
Al-Quadin Muhammad (DE)
Carroll Phillips (DE)
Jabaal Sheard (DE)

Denico Autry (DT/DE)
Tyquan Lewis (DT/DE)

Sterling Shippy (DT)
Grover Stewart (DT)
Jihad Ward (DT)
Margus Hunt (DT)
Jordan Thompson (DT)
Johnny Robinson (DT)

I hope Ballard knows what he is doing with the IDL, I hate how light it is getting and I think McCoy is better than our current 3-techs, but the money is not being left on the table and it can affect future contracts since it rolls forward. It isn't use it or lose it.

That was my point. I think some missed it.

It also isn't save it to pat one's self on the back in the name of a long-term plan when you're only talking about a one year contract.

Agree there is no nt that fits the bill, but we were 10 and 6 last year. You seem to suggest that McCoy is the difference between 10 and 6 and a wc win vs 12 and 4 and an afccg berth.

We've made improvements on defense. I was really high on going after McCoy, but to suggest that not signing him is akin to willingly not fielding the best team possible is selling this regime very short. With that logic we should have signed obj.

Ballard is better than grigson, mate.

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