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-   -   Wentz Getting Cut? Maybe (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139594)

ChoppedWood 02-20-2022 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 224116)
If I told you a team was on its 5th different starting QB in 5 years, lacked a pass rush, and had issues at LT would you assume it was a successful team?

I would tell you it sounds like your GM sucks.

CletusPyle 02-20-2022 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAFF (Post 224129)
And how has he played in BIG games?

I had to look it up...he is 1-3 in the playoffs, but to be fair he has played on some very mediocre Washington and Minnesota teams. He would probably cost too much for the Colts anyway, unless they could trade Wentz in the process.

If the Colts defense can continue to improve and Jonathan stays healthy, and say they can add another sure handed WR or TE, our QB won't be expected to carry the team to victory each Sunday, but he will need to be accurate, be smart, and not be a turnover machine. I'm still on the fence as to whether Wentz can be that guy, I wish he would speak up, I'd like to know what he is willing to do to improve his game for next season!

JAFF 02-20-2022 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 224147)
I would tell you it sounds like your GM sucks.

It would tell you that the GM didnt tank a season to get one of the top five picks in the draft

The Colts were winning without an elite Qb. That takes talent.

Colts And Orioles 02-20-2022 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAFF (Post 224129)



And how has Kirk Cousins played in BIG games ???





Quote:

Originally Posted by CletusPyle (Post 224150)



I had to look it up ...... he is 1-3 in the playoffs, but to be fair he has played on some very mediocre Washington and Minnesota teams. He would probably cost too much for the Colts anyway, unless they could trade Wentz in the process.

If the Colts defense can continue to improve and Jonathan stays healthy, and say they can add another sure handed WR or TE, our QB won't be expected to carry the team to victory each Sunday, but he will need to be accurate, be smart, and not be a turnover machine. I'm still on the fence as to whether Wentz can be that guy, I wish he would speak up, I'd like to know what he is willing to do to improve his game for next season !!!




o


Also, to be fair to Cousins, one of those 3 losses came in his rookie season when he had only played in one game prior to that playoff game ...... Robert Griffin III was the Rookie of the year for the Redskins that year, and also started the playoff game in which the Redskins lost. Griffin III led the Redskins to a 14-0 lead before suffering a severe knee injury. At that point, Cousins entered the game and went 3-for-10 for only 31 yards, as the Seahawks outscored the Redskins 24-0 for the remainder of that game. So yes, he was awful in that game ...... but he also essentially had no pro experience prior to that game, and wasn't expected to play at all before he was forced into action because of Griffin III's knee injury.



Robert Griffin III’s Knee Injury Brings Painful End to Brilliant Season

(By Mark Maske)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...dfa_story.html

o

ChoppedWood 02-20-2022 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAFF (Post 224151)
It would tell you that the GM didnt tank a season to get one of the top five picks in the draft

The Colts were winning without an elite Qb. That takes talent.

The Colts sent 7 to the Pro Bowl. The Colts lost their final 2 games knowing all they had to do was win against one of the worst teams in NFL history and still crapped the bed. The Colts led the league in rushing. The Colts led the league in turn over differential. The Colts didn't even make the playoffs.

Something is not right with this organization. Either we have a very bad GM, a terrible head coach, or we have two guys that are very very pedestrian at what they do and together they aren't getting the job done. Neither Ballard nor Reich are difference makers in terms of an organization. Ballard is too bought in to his build by draft near exclusively mentality and Frank, well Frank seems to be way too invested in Frank's desire to provide reclamation than winning championships.

I have no desire to see either one of them continuing to be in charge of this organization, I see nothing from either one that tells me they are the entity that will put us over the top and I expect us to be about where we are right now so long as these two remain in their respective positions.

JAFF 02-20-2022 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 224159)
The Colts sent 7 to the Pro Bowl. The Colts lost their final 2 games knowing all they had to do was win against one of the worst teams in NFL history and still crapped the bed. The Colts led the league in rushing. The Colts led the league in turn over differential. The Colts didn't even make the playoffs.

Something is not right with this organization. Either we have a very bad GM, a terrible head coach, or we have two guys that are very very pedestrian at what they do and together they aren't getting the job done. Neither Ballard nor Reich are difference makers in terms of an organization. Ballard is too bought in to his build by draft near exclusively mentality and Frank, well Frank seems to be way too invested in Frank's desire to provide reclamation than winning championships.

I have no desire to see either one of them continuing to be in charge of this organization, I see nothing from either one that tells me they are the entity that will put us over the top and I expect us to be about where we are right now so long as these two remain in their respective positions.

While we, the fans, are disappointed, its an over reaction to do a total reset.

1. There is a lot of talent on this team. 9 wins 7 pro bowlers.
2. The GM has a good track record, all of the present talent he has brought in.

3. Reich has been a winner as a player, and as a coach. He has been on a super Bowl team and 4 Super Bowls as a player. He has engineered 2 huge comebacks as a college player and a pro.

4. I think Jim Irsay is a great owner.

I think Irsay loves a challenge. If he chooses to stand pat and put a fire under some butts, I want to see what happens. You make steel with a hot fire under pressure

Puck 02-20-2022 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 224159)
The Colts sent 7 to the Pro Bowl. The Colts lost their final 2 games knowing all they had to do was win against one of the worst teams in NFL history and still crapped the bed. The Colts led the league in rushing. The Colts led the league in turn over differential. The Colts didn't even make the playoffs.

Something is not right with this organization. Either we have a very bad GM, a terrible head coach, or we have two guys that are very very pedestrian at what they do and together they aren't getting the job done. Neither Ballard nor Reich are difference makers in terms of an organization. Ballard is too bought in to his build by draft near exclusively mentality and Frank, well Frank seems to be way too invested in Frank's desire to provide reclamation than winning championships.

I have no desire to see either one of them continuing to be in charge of this organization, I see nothing from either one that tells me they are the entity that will put us over the top and I expect us to be about where we are right now so long as these two remain in their respective positions.

We do not have a bad GM. We do not have a bad HC. We are in QB purgatory. It happens more often than not. Sure blame the FO for the Wentz debacle this yr. Then you would have to blame about 28 GM's/HCs for not being perfect.

Choppped. We have history. Epic battles. Still like and respect you, but dude let it go. Set your sites on the officials in the SB or better yet the SB halftime committee. They are in more need of ridicule than the Colts FO And besides your just gonna keep beating your head against the wall for no reason.

Anyway Luck is coming back so no worries

CletusPyle 02-20-2022 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 224165)
We do not have a bad GM. We do not have a bad HC. We are in QB purgatory. It happens more often than not. Sure blame the FO for the Wentz debacle this yr. Then you would have to blame about 28 GM's/HCs for not being perfect.

Choppped. We have history. Epic battles. Still like and respect you, but dude let it go. Set your sites on the officials in the SB or better yet the SB halftime committee. They are in more need of ridicule than the Colts FO And besides your just gonna keep beating your head against the wall for no reason.

Anyway Luck is coming back so no worries

This skinny guy ain't coming back...besides his wife won't let him!:D

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=90&strip=all

IndyNorm 02-20-2022 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAFF (Post 224151)
It would tell you that the GM didnt tank a season to get one of the top five picks in the draft

The Colts were winning without an elite Qb. That takes talent.

No, it tells you that your FO has done a shitty job of filling/backfilling the most important positions. And it's not just a QB that we're hurting. '21 was the 5th year for Ballard, and the fact the we don't have at least a decent pass rush is a failure on his part. Same with that we only have 1 receiver on the team that's above NFL average.

Ballard's obviously done some good things and is certainly a huge upgrade over his predecessor, but he's not the rock star that some people think he is.

ChoppedWood 02-20-2022 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 224165)
We do not have a bad GM. We do not have a bad HC. We are in QB purgatory. It happens more often than not. Sure blame the FO for the Wentz debacle this yr. Then you would have to blame about 28 GM's/HCs for not being perfect.

Choppped. We have history. Epic battles. Still like and respect you, but dude let it go. Set your sites on the officials in the SB or better yet the SB halftime committee. They are in more need of ridicule than the Colts FO And besides your just gonna keep beating your head against the wall for no reason.

Anyway Luck is coming back so no worries

Man he looks like he is 53 years old.... wtf is going on here?

JAFF 02-21-2022 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyNorm (Post 224186)
No, it tells you that your FO has done a shitty job of filling/backfilling the most important positions. And it's not just a QB that we're hurting. '21 was the 5th year for Ballard, and the fact the we don't have at least a decent pass rush is a failure on his part. Same with that we only have 1 receiver on the team that's above NFL average.

Ballard's obviously done some good things and is certainly a huge upgrade over his predecessor, but he's not the rock star that some people think he is.

With all the injuries last year, they found a lot of guys to step in and play. Still had a winning record. If you are looking for perfection, you wont find it in the NFL.

Chromeburn 02-21-2022 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 224147)
I would tell you it sounds like your GM sucks.

That’s a bit of a distorted statement though. We’ve only been looking for a QB for 3 seasons. And that first season of looking he had about two weeks. So essentially we’ve had two full off seasons of QB looking. Compared to how long some teams go, not all that long.

I don’t like everything Ballard does. But not finding a franchise QB in two off seasons is not one of the issues.

Brylok 02-21-2022 10:44 AM

Jordan Schultz' Twitter 2 days ago: "Curt Cousins has zero intention of taking a pay cut, sources say. I'm told an extension could pay Cousins, 33, around $40M per year."

HARD pass on that! That's more than double his actual worth. Lol.

CletusPyle 02-21-2022 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 224209)
Jordan Schultz' Twitter 2 days ago: "Curt Cousins has zero intention of taking a pay cut, sources say. I'm told an extension could pay Cousins, 33, around $40M per year."

HARD pass on that! That's more than double his actual worth. Lol.

It's looking more and more like Wentz will be our QB next season...unless the Colts just decide to tank for the 2023 draft!

Brylok 02-21-2022 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CletusPyle (Post 224219)
It's looking more and more like Wentz will be our QB next season...unless the Colts just decide to tank for the 2023 draft!

I agree unless Irsay is just super pissed and demands that Wentz leaves. It will be Frank and Carson's final ride unless there's a miraculous turn around in Wentz. I don't expect either will be here for the 2023 season.

ChoppedWood 02-21-2022 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 224220)
I agree unless Irsay is just super pissed and demands that Wentz leaves. It will be Frank and Carson's final ride unless there's a miraculous turn around in Wentz. I don't expect either will be here for the 2023 season.

I could actually ride with this. Tell them both at the outset to set the bar- it's AFC title game or you both take the dirt nap. Mid season it will be a floundering mess, both will have checked out, we will suck bad. Good draft pick and shed the dead weight of these two. Ballard on the clock to get a good coach and a real QB in here to win with a team that still has several tremendous players in their prime.

Chromeburn 02-21-2022 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CletusPyle (Post 224219)
It's looking more and more like Wentz will be our QB next season...unless the Colts just decide to tank for the 2023 draft!

I would take that over Wentz. We are not going anywhere with him. He is the most divisive player I’ve ever seen. You can’t depend on him being consistent. Dude is a coach killer.

Oldcolt 02-21-2022 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 224220)
I agree unless Irsay is just super pissed and demands that Wentz leaves. It will be Frank and Carson's final ride unless there's a miraculous turn around in Wentz. I don't expect either will be here for the 2023 season.

The longer this goes on the more this seems true to me, ie Irsay is pushing this. I hope he cools down, let’s Ballard/Reich decide and then holds them responsible. It’s is counter productive, in my opinion, to fire Ballard. Do that and he’ll be hied as a GM within days by another very happy team. Just look at the poaching going on from this team. Tells you all you need to know about what the professionals think of this regime.

njcoltfan 02-21-2022 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CletusPyle (Post 224219)
It's looking more and more like Wentz will be our QB next season...unless the Colts just decide to tank for the 2023 draft!

VERY VERY VERY, did I say Very hypothetical, if you could get Desaun Watson for NEXT years 1 and 4, would you ??

Spike 02-21-2022 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njcoltfan (Post 224241)
VERY VERY VERY, did I say Very hypothetical, if you could get Desaun Watson for NEXT years 1 and 4, would you ??

Hell, the Texans are dumber than a fence post, but I don't think they are dumb enough to trade him to the Colts. Maybe if O'Brian was still in charge. 2nd, is Watson even going to be playing football in the NFL in the next 3-5 years? Watson is a hell of a talent, and before all of his alleged bullshit, I would have traded 3 first round picks for him.

Brylok 02-21-2022 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 224237)
The longer this goes on the more this seems true to me, ie Irsay is pushing this. I hope he cools down, let’s Ballard/Reich decide and then holds them responsible. It’s is counter productive, in my opinion, to fire Ballard. Do that and he’ll be hied as a GM within days by another very happy team. Just look at the poaching going on from this team. Tells you all you need to know about what the professionals think of this regime.

Ballard definitely won't be fired. I just hope the "Golden Boy" image has been seen through. Frank put his own neck in the noose by wanting Wentz. They'll hang together.

CletusPyle 02-21-2022 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njcoltfan (Post 224241)
VERY VERY VERY, did I say Very hypothetical, if you could get Desaun Watson for NEXT years 1 and 4, would you ??

Even if Watson is not criminally charged and settles with his accusers, if he comes to Indy the NFL will suspend him for who knows how long...of course, if he goes to Tampa or Pittsburgh the NFL will probably let him play!

Watson is a top talent, the Colts would likely win a championship if he came here for 4 or 5 seasons...but he also has some serious issues that puts doubts on if he can avoid repeating his bad behavior. He will be suspended when he returns...so the first year you might not even have his services!

No, I would not pursue him.....

Hoopsdoc 02-21-2022 07:08 PM

Holder and Keefer did a one percent better podcast today they seem to think the decision has already been made to move on from Wentz, it’s just a matter of when it actually takes place.

This was, in their words, after conversations with people around the organization over the past week. And they believe it’s coming directly from Irsay.

I’m about 99 percent sure now that, regardless of what else happens, Wentz will not be a Colt next season.

Discflinger 02-21-2022 07:14 PM

I just wonder if it was the shot or something else that pissed him off royally. The last two weeks go without saying.

Hoopsdoc 02-21-2022 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discflinger (Post 224254)
I just wonder if it was the shot or something else that pissed him off royally. The last two weeks go without saying.

I think the shot is part of it but it’s more than that. For instance, i don’t get that vibe from Jim regarding Leonard or Kelly.

Jim’s been pissed since Jacksonville and it seems like Wentz is the guy he’s pissed at.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 02-21-2022 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc (Post 224255)
I think the shot is part of it but it’s more than that. For instance, i don’t get that vibe from Jim regarding Leonard or Kelly.

Jim’s been pissed since Jacksonville and it seems like Wentz is the guy he’s pissed at.


I haven't listened to the podcast yet but Keefer has already indicated that Irsay was not happy that Wentz went through the season unvaccinated.

I would say the big difference between Leonard or Kelly vs. Wentz is that the team could weather missing Leonard or Kelly a bit better than losing the starting QB.

I mean Brent Hundley was the de facto backup QB for the majority of the season. As bad as Wentz has played at times, there is a significant dropoff from Wentz to Hundley. And before you say Ehlinger, the Colts could have thrown in Ehlinger to the Oakland game and decided a Carson Wentz with little to no practice was a better option than Ehlinger.

I also wonder if there was any truth to the rumors about certain players intentionally contracting COVID-19 to avoid having to test during the post season. Carson Wentz was one of the last Colts who contracted COVID-19. I could see Irsay being pissed off about that if Carson intentionally caught COVID. That is all rumor and speculation, however.

JAFF 02-21-2022 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlwaysSunnyinIndy (Post 224258)
I haven't listened to the podcast yet but Keefer has already indicated that Irsay was not happy that Wentz went through the season unvaccinated.

I would say the big difference between Leonard or Kelly vs. Wentz is that the team could weather missing Leonard or Kelly a bit better than losing the starting QB.

I mean Brent Hundley was the de facto backup QB for the majority of the season. As bad as Wentz has played at times, there is a significant dropoff from Wentz to Hundley. And before you say Ehlinger, the Colts could have thrown in Ehlinger to the Oakland game and decided a Carson Wentz with little to no practice was a better option than Ehlinger.

I also wonder if there was any truth to the rumors about certain players intentionally contracting COVID-19 to avoid having to test during the post season. Carson Wentz was one of the last Colts who contracted COVID-19. I could see Irsay being pissed off about that if Carson intentionally caught COVID. That is all rumor and speculation, however.

Anyone who caught covid on purpose should have a psych evaluation

Oldcolt 02-21-2022 09:51 PM

If Irsay is making these decisions we are fucked. He has already proved he is shit as a GM Let the professionals run the team. If they decide we are better off without Wentz great. At least it would be a football decision, not a decision made by an embarrassed pissed off old man

apballin 02-21-2022 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discflinger (Post 224254)
I just wonder if it was the shot or something else that pissed him off royally. The last two weeks go without saying.

Not only were you embarrassed by the last 2 weeks it was in view for the world to watch us look like jackasses on hard knocks

Wentz wasted one of the best single season performances I’ve ever witnessed by Taylor

Just my hypothetical…

Irsay didnt want Wentz he got off on the wrong foot by refusing the vax, then not retuning to the game week 1, his stupid turnovers costed us huge games early and the last 2 weeks were Curtis Painter like Irsay had high hopes of playoffs atleast I believe and the last 2 games sealed Wentz fate

apballin 02-21-2022 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 224261)
If Irsay is making these decisions we are fucked. He has already proved he is shit as a GM Let the professionals run the team. If they decide we are better off without Wentz great. At least it would be a football decision, not a decision made by an embarrassed pissed off old man

No Reich let his emotions get involved clearly Wentz was a shitty trade based on nothing but emotions because he played the same way last year for Philly

Oldcolt 02-21-2022 11:37 PM

Exactly my point apballin. When you make emotional decisions they rarely work out. I am not saying we should keep Wentz. I just think it needs to be a purely football decision, not some pissed off owner trying to do something, anything that just makes him feel better and cover his embarrassment. Im not even sure why this would embarrass him after all the shit be as pulled himself.

apballin 02-21-2022 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 224267)
Exactly my point apballin. When you make emotional decisions they rarely work out. I am not saying we should keep Wentz. I just think it needs to be a purely football decision, not some pissed off owner trying to do something, anything that just makes him feel better and cover his embarrassment. Im not even sure why this would embarrass him after all the shit be as pulled himself.

Pure football decision honestly look at his performance from beginning to end and the dude got worse as the season went along and he had the best RB in the league by far

He makes everyone’s job harder, Oline has to block longer he gets his receivers killed with inaccurate passes and he fumbles every time he gets sacked

We were a joke offensively our best play for a month was under thrown pass getting PI

Oldcolt 02-21-2022 11:50 PM

I agree. He needs to be gone. He isn’t the worst QB I’ve ever seen. I want to make sure we are better off after we make the QB moves we need to make. You could end up with a worse QB if you just say fuck it and cut the guy without a plan. I don’t trust Irsay to have a plan. This all just sucks big time.

apballin 02-21-2022 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 224269)
I agree. He needs to be gone. He isn’t the worst QB I’ve ever seen. I want to make sure we are better off after we make the QB moves we need to make. You could end up with a worse QB if you just say fuck it and cut the guy without a plan. I don’t trust Irsay to have a plan. This all just sucks big time.

See I think Jonathan Taylor is as good as advertised and if Reich stays out of his way while mixing in passes and play action we can still be successful we just need the QB to get it out quick and don’t fuckin turn it over

We may see something even more historic from Taylor next year

rm1369 02-22-2022 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apballin (Post 224271)
See I think Jonathan Taylor is as good as advertised and if Reich stays out of his way while mixing in passes and play action we can still be successful we just need the QB to get it out quick and don’t fuckin turn it over

We may see something even more historic from Taylor next year

Taylor had 372 touches this season. That’s more than enough. Slightly too much to me. If you want to maximize Taylor get him a passing game that lessens the load on him. Don’t run his ass into the ground.

Chromeburn 02-22-2022 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apballin (Post 224271)
See I think Jonathan Taylor is as good as advertised and if Reich stays out of his way while mixing in passes and play action we can still be successful we just need the QB to get it out quick and don’t fuckin turn it over

We may see something even more historic from Taylor next year

If we get a QB that can make loaded boxes pay, then Taylor will get some breathing room. That’s a QB with accuracy as a trait.

Kray007 02-22-2022 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njcoltfan (Post 223945)
No you don't !!!!!! Colt's just can not keep waiting till next year !!!

When your choices are either a 1987 Yugo or a 1973 Ford Fiesta, you wait till next year

Kray007 02-22-2022 03:21 PM

The consensus on Wentz, after the trade, was that he had gotten mucked up in Philadelphia, and all he needed to excel was a return to the arms of a Quarterback whisperer like Frank Reich.

Well, he might have come to the Colts; but, for all practical purposes, Reich never got the opportunity to take apart his game, his mechanics, fix them, and put the pieces back together.

First, Covid wiped out offseason workouts, then the foot ended Wentz’s preseason.

Give Reich another shot at it. If it works out, great. But, if his critics are right and Wentz is unsalvageable, you have a first round draft choice in a better class of QB’s or you can pick up a free agent from a deeper pool.

apballin 02-22-2022 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kray007 (Post 224299)
The consensus on Wentz, after the trade, was that he had gotten mucked up in Philadelphia, and all he needed to excel was a return to the arms of a Quarterback whisperer like Frank Reich.

Well, he might have come to the Colts; but, for all practical purposes, Reich never got the opportunity to take apart his game, his mechanics, fix them, and put the pieces back together.

First, Covid wiped out offseason workouts, then the foot ended Wentz’s preseason.

Give Reich another shot at it. If it works out, great. But, if his critics are right and Wentz is unsalvageable, you have a first round draft choice in a better class of QB’s or you can pick up a free agent from a deeper pool.

See drafting a QB is not the answer to me this team is full of guys heading into their prime it’s built to win right now we don’t have time to let a rookie come in and develop

Oldcolt 02-22-2022 05:31 PM

Kray007 makes to much sense. This year is a crapshoot no matter how you slice it


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