Like Taylor and his alleged fumble issues, right?

I would like to set the record straight, before I get dragged into this JT fumbling issue. JT has no more of fumbling issue than Edge did, and yes they both fumbled at inopportune times. Edge lost us at least 2 Pats games that I can think of with fumbles.

My problems with JT are mostly an unwillingness to improve as a pass blocker, pass catcher or route runner, not to mention his utter lack of situational football awareness.

I’m with you. No disagreement here at all.

All I’m doing is pointing out Archimedes’ passion for moving goalposts.

Not as bad as JT's, but Edge had some really stupid fumbles trying to reach out w/ the ball for the goal line when he had been stopped short on 1st/2nd down. This includes 1 of the 2 fumbles at the Cheats in '04 that cost us HFA advantage against them.

Eh, you can cherry pick these type of plays w/ almost every player in NFL history like I did w/ Edge and Bettis earlier in the thread. Another example is Adrian Peterson, who lost a fumble in OT of the 2009 NFC Championship which in all likelihood cost the Vikings a trip to the Superbowl.


Something else I think I should address is blaming our loss vs. Balt in 2020 solely on JTs fumble. Yes, it was a large contributing factor in the loss (arguably the largest), but it happened in the 1st quarter and resulted in a 7-7 tie at the time. Balt then went on to outscore us 17-3 for the rest of the game, so it's not like we had the game completely in the bag if JT doesn't fumble in the 1st quarter.

Agreed. I'm not in the camp that thinks JT has a particular issue with fumbling. Just pointing out that when he has fumbled, it's been in some game-fucking situations.

So that probably gives guys in that camp (Dam in this case) the perception that he fumbles more than he does.

How much does JT have to cost the team before you see him as a problem?

To be clear, I have all of those issues with JT as well, I just also don't like that his lackadaisical effort costs the Colts games and seasons with fumbles.

He had a fumble issue coming into the NFL. Coaching reduced his overall fumbles, but his fumbles tend to really fucking hurt the team, as does his inability (unwillingness) to improve in pass pro, which takes him off the field in crucial situations.

If anything it shows that the Colts teams JT has been on have a lot less margin for error than Colts teams back in our hay day. But with that being said though, objectively speaking he really hasn't cost the Colts any more games from fumbling than just about any other NFL RB who had as many touches as JT has had.


How much clear, objective evidence does it take for you to admit that you're wrong about something?

Name a game Derrick Henry has cost his team with a fumble. I hate him, but I have to acknowledge reality.

Let's start with any and go from there. We'll get to a threshold eventually.

You have acknowledge nothing. Titans were leading this game 14-13 when Derrick Henry fumbled on this play. Derrick Henry lost 2 fumbles in this game, that the Titans ultimately lost 36-22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysxrsz7jJs

The any is the fact that has already been pointed out to you that JT is right around the league average in fumbles. So now it has also been pointed out to you that Derrick Henry and Edge have inopportune fumbling occurrences.

My gawd man, why can't you either admit your wrong or stop forcing others to do your homework and prove you wrong. I know the answer. It's because you can't prove yourself right!

That was actually easier than I thought.

2024 @Pitt - Henry lost a fumble on the opening drive on Balt's side of the field, which Pitt converted to a FG. This spotted the Steelers 3 points in what ended up being an 18-16 win for them over Balt.

Also, if we're pinning the 2020 loss vs. Balt. on JT's 1st quarter fumble then we should pin these Tits losses in 2022 on Henry:

- 36-22 loss to the Jagoffs where he lost 2 fumbles (game that Commish linked)
- 19-14 loss to the Texans where Henry lost a fumble while in FG range, which HOU then converted the TO into a FG


This is highly debatable.


It doesn't get any more obvious and objective than Chaos' earlier post showing that JT has a lower fumble rate than 8 of the 10 greatest RBs of all time.

I also pointed out fumbles by Bettis and AP that were much more inopportune than anything from JT, Edge, or Henry.

On this end you are speaking to the choir my friend. On the other end, i fear that your speaking to a narcissist.

I acknowledged that he improved his overall fumble rate from college. His fumbles hurt the team, though, as does his piss poor pass pro, as does his inability to improve at the elements of being a RB that aren't running the ball.

By getting caught up on the fumble piece, you're missing the point, which is that JT is a good player who could be great if he was willing to put in the effort. The improved fumble rate even plays into that argument. He got better at a skill when he tried to improve it. So why can't he get better at pass pro or receiving? I feel like the answer is lack of effort, especially with the pass pro, because RB pass pro is pretty much all about effort. It's a learned skill, not an ability which a player can cover a lack of technique up with athletic gifts.

That term is almost as overused as gaslighting.

So, for the third time on this thread, yes, JT improved his overall fumble rate from college to the pros, good on him. He also cost the Colts their 2024 season with a completely unforced, boneheaded fumble that was caused by nothing more than arrogance and lack of effort. And that, to me, embodies exactly what JT has been for the Colts since he entered the league: an extremely talented good player who won't put in the effort to become great. It showed up in the fumble against Denver, it shows up in Steichen not trusting him on 3rd downs, and it seems like Giddens was drafted as an eventual JT replacement, but one who can stay on the field on 3rd down.

You're hilarious.

o


I was wrong in 2012 when I predicted that Case Keenum would have a longer and more distinguished career than Andrew Luck would.

I was wrong ...... no nuanced rebuttals, no interjections, no asides ...... I was just wrong.

o

I was completely wrong about Zach Allen. I thought he'd amount to nothing and wash from the league in 3 years or less. Dude was second team All-Pro last year, and unlike Zaire Franklin, actually earned it.

So, what you're saying is...I was wrong once, but now I have no faults?

If you're right as often as you're wrong in talent evaluation, you're likely Hall of Fame caliber, and that's if you have all the information NFL teams have.

I have plenty of faults, but there’s no point in me talking about them to anyone but my therapist. Better to just fix them in every other case.

You're preaching to the choir on JT's receiving and pass pro. In fact I'm of the opinion that he has actually regressed as a receiver. Remember when we'd all be pissed off at Wentz for not throwing to JT more?

But I do like to call out BS when I see it, and your insistence that JT has fumbling issues is BS as we've objectively proven.

I'm no therapist, but I'm pretty sure that admitting when you're wrong is healthy for you.

I'll always blame the bitch that stabbed Harper for that loss!

So, now you are Hall of Fame caliber? :rolleyes:

Not even close.

Her, and the liquored up kicker