The CBs that fit the profile of what they've drafted recently are in mid-late Day 2. I wouldn't be upset with Mitchell or Arnold, only mildly disappointed at the opportunity cost, but I still think they're going to trade back and draft a WR. I also wouldn't mind trading back and drafting an elite edge rusher, or just outright drafting an elite edge rusher, but that doesn't seem to be the direction they want to go.

Ah, you're one of those. Simple question for you: who is the better GM, Chris Ballard or Ryan Grigson?

o


Substitute a healthy Anthony Richardson for Gardner Minshew for the entire 2023 season, and I believe that the Colts would have won the AFC South ...... and that's a raw, inexperienced rookie Anthony Richardson ...... it's quite possible that an Anthony Richardson with 2 or 3 years of NFL experience under his belt may have had the Colts competing with the Bills, the Chiefs, and the Ravens for a spot in the AFC championship game. ) *


* ) The above statement is my rat's ass of an opinion, which along with $18 will get you a one-way ticket from Brewster, NY to Grand Central Station in New York City.

o

How exactly are we not? Why does the boatload of free agents we re-signed not count? Because we drafted them? They were free agents, they could have left the team. Something a lot of teams have to deal with more than us.

Take off the "already on the team goggles" and you see that we signed:

-One of the best WR available in FA
-One of the best DT in FA (possibly the best NT specifically?)
-One of the best CB in FA (possibly the best Slot specifically?)
-By way of extension, one of the best MLB that would have been a FA
-A bunch of quality depth pieces that have continuity on the team.

Those top four in particular... if another team swooped in and signed them away from us, that's a headline-worthy FA-splash for that team. For some reason, we don't want to look at it the same when it's a "re-signing."

Maybe you'll answer: Who is the better GM, Chris Ballard or Ryan Grigson?

What’s your take on Austin Booker?

Ballard by a hair.

More traits than substance, Ballard I think will like both he and Jalyx Hunt for their traits, and I wouldn't be surprisedif the Colts end up drafting one of them. If the Colts are going to take a Day 2 or Day 3 edge rusher, my hope is it's Mo Kamara. He looks so very much like Robert Mathis. 6'1" 250 sub 4.6 40 and just gets after the QB, causes a lot of fumbles as well.

It's Ballard by leagues, and if you want proof, you need look no further than the Colts last 12, soon to be 13 drafts. You'll start seeing the good classes when Ballard took over.

Definitely look at Ballards drafts and not his results, because nothing in the results say he’s anything but mediocre. I guess you are technically correct though - better than Grigson. Not exactly high praise. The single smartest decision Ballard has ever made was following Grigson. 8 years in to a rebuild where he’s had more coaching searches than playoff appearances and many fans think he’s doing good because he’s not Grigson.

Yeah, I prefer Ballards method of continuously building the roster through the draft to what the Titans are apparently doing, which is going all in and rolling the dice.

The odds that Levis is any good are not good and if he isn’t, they’re screwed for a while.

Do not prioritize the Colts lack of visits with a potential draftee as anything other than hyperbole.

How many coaching searches has he had? I count 2. How many playoff appearances? I also count 2.

Searched after Pagano and picked McDaniels. Got stood up (thankfully) and then opened it back up and met with new candidates and landed on Reich. Then the search for Steichen. His first search was such a disaster he got an immediate redo. And it wasn’t just that McDaniels backed out, his performance since proved Ballard’s choice was shitty from the get go. I count 3.

I think he's doing good because he's a better drafter than Polian, and unlike both Polian and Grigson, his tenure did not begin with the blessing of a franchise QB falling into his lap at #1 overall. Quite the opposite, 3 years into his tenure, the franchise QB he thought he had retired in shocking and unexpected fashion. He worked through that and still somehow got the Colts to the playoffs once despite having no solution at the NFL's most important position. He finally was able to draft his guy in 2023, and that guy got hurt at the beginning of the season. Anthony Richardson will play his age 22 season in 2024, and we're going to act like the guy that put a roster together than nearly won the division without him isn't doing enough? Ballard finally has his franchise QB in place, he should have more than 4 games with him before we're saying he can't succeed with him.

Holy fuck no....he's not a better drafter than Polian. This is not even a di csussion.

Translated:

Who cares because Ballard is not being active in free agency and EVERYONE knows that being active = winning free agency!

I only have 0.563% the football knowledge of Chris Ballard but since he is letting football players who are either too expensive or don't fit our system sign with other teams, that means he is bad, bad, bad and I hates him. No biscuit for you!

The door is ========> That way.....

Ballard is an above average drafter, but I don’t believe he knows how to actually win. Drafting talent and assembling a winning team are different things and I have seen exactly zero evidence he’s capable of the latter. If it weren’t for Irsay stepping in it is very likely AR would not be the Colts franchise QB. Without the shit show of Reich’s firing and the hiring of Saturday the team likely finishes middle of the pack again. Ballard’s history and his past comments say he wouldn’t have went and got AR. And I’m not positive the team ends up with Steichen. Does Ballard fire Reich? I don’t think so. I criticized Irsay heavily when things went down, but it’s clear he saw that the team needed something to change because Ballard was leading them no where. And Irsay was absolutely right. The team has hope now because of Irsay’s decision. Ballard made good choices when forced into the situation, but he didn’t see the big picture. Notice a trend? We’ll see how this off season ends, but it looks like it will go like it usually does - prioritizing future flexibility over solutions now, throw a bunch of young guys at a problem and hope. It has cost the team almost every year under Ballard. But at least the future cap looks good!

If they miss the playoffs again will you start to change your mind on Ballard’s ultra conservative approach? If they finish 3rd (or worse) in the division again? How many years or rebuilding become too many before you need a different approach? Or as long as he drafts a decent player or two, wins don’t matter? It’s easy to think that as long as he drafts well everything else will work out. But let’s remember the career of his greatest draft pick has already started, peaked, and pretty much ended. How many more years will DeFo remain a monster? How long does most RB careers last? How often is Nelson injured and how long does his back hold out? None of those are in Ballards control and it’s not his fault when they happen….but it will be his fault when this team never peaks with those guys because Ballard was always too worried about next year.

I get tired of this argument. That everyone is bitching because he didn’t sign X or Y free agent. That’s not it for many. The issue is an overall philosophy that prioritizes next year. Always. Sign or trade for a 40+ yr old QB. No rush - we got time to deal with WR next year (Rivers) or time for a 3rd round rookie LT (who has only played the position for 2 yrs) to develop (Ryan). It doesn’t matter the QB situation (young, old) Ballard has time to wait. Time enough for the Texans to also lose their franchise QB, bottom out, rebuild, and win the division. Ballard keeps saying he sees his mistakes and I keep hoping he does. I want him to be good. I want to believe he will be aggressive and try to win. There is a lot of off-season left. Right now it’s looking a lot like Deja vu.

Compare their drafts. The big advantage Ballard has over Polian is he doesn't waste what is now Day 2. Polian was great on what are now Days 1 and 3 and terrible on what is now Day 2. Ballard does well in all rounds.

Honestly, I know it will be an unpopular opinion, especially for those who are very impatient now, but I think giving Ballard 2-3 years with a franchise QB in place is reasonable, and of course it also depends on what happens with Richardson. If he keeps getting injured, that's partially on Ballard for picking him over other options that were available, but if the team still has success, do you really want to get rid of the best drafting front office the organization has ever had? This team was 1 errant Gardner Minshew throw away from winning the division without AR. I could see this level of ire if they were coming off a 5-11 season, but the current situation is cause for optimism, not ire.

In Ballard's 7 seasons, the Colts have compiled a record of 54-60-1. They've made 2 playoff appearances, won 1 postseason game and captured 0 division titles.

Not sure by what standard the above is anything but suck, but okay, I am sure you have a hundred thousand qualifiers why the above can't be viewed as sucking.

Sorry, I do acknowledge that it was cloudy on some of those days and there were a couple where the weather was so bad a wind breaker was required. Definitely less than optimal conditions so I acknowledge that hardship he has had to work with. Poor guy.

Dude is a fucking tight wad who is constantly looking forward, looking to build for the following year. He pays the wrong damn positions big dollars.

Thank you for confirming that you're measuring with the wrong stick. The Colts have had a top 10-15 QB in exactly 2 of Ballard's 8 seasons. Both times, the team made the playoffs. Is the lack of overall team success frustrating? Sure, but the lack of success hasn't been for lack of talent on the roster. It's been because the QB position became an unexpected issue in year 3 of Ballard's tenure, and he's put together high quality rosters around that despite not having the answer at QB that came close to making the playoffs without a quality QB several times. If Richardson I'd the answer at QB, we're in for a run like the 2000s. That's worth giving Ballard the chance to get there.

The weird thing is, if the team fails because of AR I’m more likely to give Ballard more time. As stated, I don’t fully give Ballard credit for AR so I’m also not going to hold him fully responsible for AR either. He was a risky pick, but the right pick given the situation. So missing the playoffs next year isn’t an automatic “fire Ballard” for me at this point - assuming the issue is AR not developing or being injury prone and not the lack of support from the rest of the team. If they go into the season with a raw secondary lacking proven even replacement level talent at CB or safety, if they again throw a mess of rookies and unproven young guys at the problem then I’m done with Ballard. And honestly that’s regardless of outcome. Playoffs or no playoffs. And it may be the case if the pass rush falls off like I fear may happen. Reports were Ballard was after Hunter, offered more, and he chose Texans. I’ll give him some leeway while I also recognize his history says he ALWAYS only looks for bargains so I’m confident he didn’t put out an offer Hunter couldn’t resist. Maybe that’s “smart” but the lack of aggressiveness is part of the reason the team is where it’s at. It’s where that great salary cap position should be used - to stretch on a need. Any one player or situation can be written off, but with Ballard it’s a philosophy. One I believe has and will continue to hurt the team until he changes or he’s gone.

To be a successful organization long term, you have to trust the players you draft to develop and become good players. Everyone is upset the Colts didn't get L'Jarius Sneed right now, the Chiefs drafted him with a 4th round pick, then developed him into a good player. Would it have been nice to get Sneed or Hunter? Yes, but if Brents, Jones, or Flowers doesn't develop into a good starter, it won't matter how much pass rush the Colts get or who the starter on the opposite side of them is. And if the Colts got Hunter, that would've been a 2 year stopgap solution, they still would've needed to find an alpha pass rusher in this draft or the next one. I'd suggest Mo Kamara if they're not willing to invest in Verse or Latu on Day 1. But either way, they will not get where they want to go with a Free Agency spending spree. That was Grigson's style, and it didn't work.

Measuring by the wrong stick, that's a great one. Last I checked, every single team in the history of sports has been measured by wins and losses, by playoff appearances, and by championships played in and won.

You go ahead and use whatever fucking obtuse other measures for success you wish. I'm gonna go with the tried and true standard used for now hundreds of years.

I’m not following your logic at all. Yes Hunter would be a two yr stop gap. So what? Two years is an eternity in the NFL. And it buys time to actually develop players. That’s the whole point. No one is denying that the primary source of talent for a team should be the draft. The question is what happens with your weaknesses in the meantime? You can either try to find viable stop gap solutions or gift positions to rookies and accept below average play while they learn. Ballard almost always chooses the latter. Yes it’s cheaper financially but it’s more costly in wins and losses. Rivers probably beats the Bills if Ballard doesn’t kick the can down the road at WR. And if he didn’t think that team could win then fine, but why the hell are you signing a 40 yr old QB for? Certainly not the future. It’s because Ballard doesn’t have a big picture view besides maintaining flexibility for the future. Next year is always more important than this year. It’s a strategy for mediocrity and so far it’s worked to perfection. Only Irsay’s intervention temporarily changed the course.

We’ll have to disagree on Grigson. I fucking hate the guy, but his use of free agency was the one thing he got right. He filled holes. Not that he was always right in his signings, but that’s not what sunk the team. The problem was he never was able to do the second part - draft the talent to eventually fill the positions long term. Ballard mostly can. We just have to wait 1-3 seasons with a gaping hole until the draft aligns with our needs enough to address them. And accept the losses along the way.

By that standard, you'd have to say Grigson is a better GM than Ballard, which anyone with half a brain can see is wrong.

The problem with Grigson was that he couldn't draft at all, and he didn't do well in free agency, and that was a big part of what sunk his teams. Ballard can draft, better than most GMs in NFL history. As for last year, Ballard thought that last year would be a development year, so he drafted a secondary to develop. Some improvement in the secondary will come from second year breakouts, plus the Colts kept Kenny Moore. Will that solve everything in the secondary? No, but I'll feel a lot better about the secondary concerns if Blackmon is resigned, or maybe a Justin Simmons signing. That said, successful organizations become that way by drafting and developing players. It won't matter who they sign if they can't draft and develop the replacements.

I mostly agree with the second statement. However you are saying he can draft replacements and I largely agree. So why isn’t that the team’s philosophy? Why over his 8 years has he almost exclusively relied upon his drafting ability? He should be bringing in vets for the rookies to learn from, compete with, and to bring an acceptable level of play until the young guys develop. That is not the philosophy or strategy - unless he gets a huge bargain, then maybe. They used to claim it was because of the “culture” they wanted to develop and that has shown to be a failure The team has not developed some great winning culture. It’s been much closer to dysfunctional than good.

Sure I could buy that for last year. Makes sense. Now explain lack of WR to me with Rivers. Explain the OL choices with Ryan. Explain having no DE on the roster with double digit sacks for their entire career with Wentz. Last year was not some situationally specific decision by Ballard, it was a continuation of the philosophy we’ve seen pretty much every year. That’s a big part of my issue with him. I’d love to see some larger, year specific decisions that make sense. We don’t see them. For lack of a better saying he “does what he does”. Every year. Whether the QB is Luck, Rivers, Wentz, or Ryan his words and actions have been the same. So far, no difference with AR. Pretty much every year. You can look at them in isolation and try to explain them away but the trend is obvious. And largely matches his words and stated philosophy.

Polian drafted Rob Morris, Anthony Gonzalez, and Donald Brown in the first round.

He was good but he certainly wasn’t perfect, as no GM is.

I’d argue that Ballard has been at least as good as Polian.

The fact that Polians very first draft pick was Peyton Manning papered over a lot of his later draft blunders.

Sneed was never coming to us and I don't mind it, especially at that price and age. The Colts have become the Pacers to me. It's great to have professional sports teams representing where you come from. They aren't going to win much of anythig though. I hope AR will be a superstar...but I have my doubts. Ballard is, to me now, a question of what worse can we get. We haven't won the division since 2014, and we have well short of Luck. Lord help our Colts and they are very boring. In Steichen I trust... everything I guess.

Ummm I hate Grigson, total douchebag, at the same time one cannot ever claim he didn't lay it all out there going for it.

Ballard never does. Sits on cash that isn't his and thumbs his nose at positions which are critical to winning in the NFL today. He sucks.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he's better, but I think there's definitely a discussion. It's hard to compare a finished HOF career with a relatively young, active one.

Ballard's '18 stands out and he lands guys all over the mid- and late-rounds. We'll see how it looks.

What puts Polian over the top is his ridiculous run of #1 picks in his first 9 seasons with the Colts (Manning, James, Morris, Wayne, Freeney, Clark, Sanders, Jackson, Addai).

4 HOF'ers, 2 All-Pros (Sanders would've been HOF), and a Pro Bowl RB that averaged 140yds in two Super Bowls (could've been XLI MVP). The two unimpressive picks were still at least a SB starter and SB contributor.

Ballard manages a team in a very similar way to Polian. A lot of people didn't like Polian's style, but it proved successful. Further, it's not only been proven successful with the Colts, it's been proven successful across the league. The Chiefs will be going for a third consecutive Super Bowl in the 2024 season, and the biggest reason for that in my opinion was trading away Tyreek Hill. That trade allowed them to draft Trent McDuffie and gave them the cap space to retain Chris Jones. That was a tough trade to make, but the Chiefs have definitely reaped the rewards of making a difficult decision. A decision that if Ballard made, I'm certain most people here, certainly the ones upset with Ballard now, would be calling for his head over. Can I explain every bad decision Ballard has made? Not at all, the Matt Pryor decision was the most baffling decision I've seen a GM not named Ryan Grigson make. That said, Ballard gets more right than he gets wrong, and his draft record is incredible. Replacing him risks getting another Grigson. I'd be very hesitant to replace someone with Ballard's track record knowing that possibility exists.

Cry more about Ballard not blowing tons of cash in free agency. I hope you do for the next decade.

It took me 7 drafts to make the claim out loud, I wanted to see enough production to justify it. But the results are there. You just said Polian had 2 All-Pros in his whole drafting career here, Ballard did that in 1 draft, and they both made All-Pro as rookies. I don't think Ballard has had a single class that has produced less than 2 quality starters, and several classes have produced 4 starters and that doesn't even count contributing role players, such as rotational DLs and 2nd and 3rd TEs, and I'm not counting DeForest Buckner in his draft history despite the fact that the Colts traded their 2020 1st round pick for him. Polian was better at UDFA than Ballard, but you don't have to be good at UDFA if you pull 4 starters per class from your draft picks. That's an incredible, historically unprecedented hit rate.

Sitting on money? It was pointed out in another thread that they just signed like $200m+ worth of contracts.

Grigson laying it all out there is the prime example why that's a shit method, especially if you're incompetent. His best FA moves were the ones that are most similar to Ballard's (which get bitched about), like Jerrell Freeman, Cory Redding, Darius Butler, Matt Hasselbeck, and Mike Adams.

His big splash was Vontae Davis. Great trade, similar to Ballard's trade for Buckner.

What else? Erik Walden? Laron Landry? Multi-year deals for old ass D'Qwell Jackson, Frank Gore, Andre Johnson, Trent Cole? Trading a 1st-Rounder for Trent Richardson. Some of these moves had the writers and fans lined up to blow him for winning the off-season, sure...

What else? Paying dudes like backup Donald Thomas because you already brought in Samson Satele and Mike McGlynn who are getting Andrew Luck mauled on a weekly basis? Donnie Avery, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Hakeem Nicks?

Andrew Luck dragged that team to a fool's gold AFC Championship (we got smoked every time we played a good team, thanks Peyton's torn quad). He dragged that team until he physically couldn't anymore and all that was left to look at was Grigson's smoldering pile of rubble.

Grigson's roster wouldn't have the team on the brink of a division championship with the backup playing all year.

Well, actually he drafted 6 All-Pros in 7 years: Manning, James, Wayne, and Freeney (HOF guys) + Bob Sanders and Dallas Clark. Not to mention his BUF days.

But point taken. Like I said, I definitely think there's a discussion even with that.

I am pretty sure Frank was part of the same search that McDaniels was in, but you do you.

Frank was never interviewed until after McDaniels backed out. Per IndyStar:

“When Josh McDaniels stiffed the Colts and reneged on an oral agreement last week to become the team’s next head coach, General Manager Chris Ballard said he would simply revert to his original list and begin meeting with candidates he had not interviewed in the first round. But even a cursory look at the candidates the Colts have considered in recent days shows the Colts did not simply pick up where they left off.

And it is this change of course that brought the Colts to Reich………………………

Ballard didn’t characterize the kind of candidate he would target when he held his post-McDaniels disaster news conference on Wednesday but, rest assured, this shift is not simply coincidental.

There was a clear contrast between the second round of candidates and those targeted immediately after former coach Chuck Pagano was fired six weeks ago. Gone were the shiny objects like McDaniels, the talented but flawed Patriots offensive coordinator, and Matt Nagy, the young, up-and-coming but unproven former Kansas City offensive coordinator.

They were replaced in this round by the likes of Buffalo’s Leslie Frazier, a veteran and steady hand in the Tony Dungy mold, who once led the Minnesota Vikings. Also interviewed was the Saints’ Dan Campbell, perhaps not an X’s and O’s wizard like McDaniels, but a coach who would instill toughness and leadership for a franchise that needs to get back on track.

……….

It was, as a key source explained, absolutely intentional.

Ballard surely had a long list of possibilities before he originally began his search but, interestingly, he pinpointed a certain sort of candidate the first time around.

This time, Ballard went for proven leadership.“

So he wasn’t initially interviewed, Ballard changed what he was looking for, conducted new interviews, and there were several other candidates meeting the new criteria. Sounds like a different search to me. And if I was on here criticizing Ballard for not reevaluating and starting over after McDaniels you would already know this and be defending him. But hey, you do you.

I don’t at all see the connection you are trying to draw between Polian / Ballard and the Chiefs. Especially the trading of Tyreke Hill. That is a move I see neither Polian or Ballard making. Both of them would have paid and kept Hill. For one it was home grown talent and that alone is reason they wouldn’t have traded him. And secondly it was a huge risk for a well established team. Neither one of them are known for their risk taking. The Chiefs roster has changed significantly more than the Colts rosters with Manning did. They have been more aggressive and more adaptive. Which is exactly my complaint with Ballard’s style and the same complaint I had about Polian. I believe a more aggressive roster approach with Manning would have likely ended with less regular season success but more post season success. I’m sure you vehemently disagree.Regardless, I don’t see substantial success using their ultra conservative approach across the league. I see teams that are more adaptive and who take some calculated risks (like the Chiefs) coming out on top.

So let’s be clear, I’m not talking free agent frenzy. I’m saying identifying the major obvious weakness and taking real steps to address at least one of them - beyond planning to fix it in the draft over the next couple seasons. Stretching to get one key piece in Hunter or Sneed is not a frenzy. Another approach is bringing in multiple mid level (not bargain basement) free agents to get at least mid level play while the young guys develop in spots. Neither of those methods are abandoning the principles of building through the draft. And it doesn’t necessarily lead to cap hell.

The value of drafting talent and the need for it to be the primary source of talent is undisputed. And overall I agree Ballard is an above average drafter. The Colts could certainly do worse at that. However I also believe they can do better overall with someone who has a different, less rigid philosophy. My preference is for Ballard to learn and change. So far there is no evidence of that though. I advocate for a controlled aggressive approach from the GM so it makes sense I’d want the same for the owner. Ballard should be running out of rope soon if he’s not capable of adapting.

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Earlier in the thread, I supposed how the 2023 Colts would have fared with a healthy Anthony Richardson at quarterback ...... your post just gave me the thought of how those 2023 Colts would have fared with a healthy Andrew Luck taking the snaps behind the center.

o