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-   -   Well, it's time for the" lets not be in the cellar after todays game" thread! (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53974)

Dewey 5 09-30-2018 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 83339)
o


Frank Reich is old enough to know better, also.


o

Yes he is. That's why he knew going for the W was the best thing to do.

Colts And Orioles 09-30-2018 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewey 5 (Post 83358)



Yes he is. That's why he knew going for the W was the best thing to do.



o


No, it wasn't. Not at that place in the field.


o

Thorgrim 09-30-2018 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate505 (Post 83355)
I agree. I liked going for it. This season is an experiment anyway.

I won’t judge the call yet. The only thing that matters is how it will affect the morale, psyche, and respect of the team.

Racehorse 09-30-2018 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorgrim (Post 83381)
I won’t judge the call yet. The only thing that matters is how it will affect the morale, psyche, and respect of the team.

I am pretty sure they keep their cups half full, unlike many of our posters.

YDFL Commish 09-30-2018 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorgrim (Post 83381)
I won’t judge the call yet. The only thing that matters is how it will affect the morale, psyche, and respect of the team.

Players don't want ties. They don't bust their asses for 60 plus minutes for ties. Every player in that locker room Has Frank Reich's back on this.

bertjones 09-30-2018 08:45 PM

Heartbreaking. Another one. But it was great to see Luck step up in the
second half and be the QB we remembered him to be. If he can stay there
there will be no dull moments this season. I agree with GB that Hines needs
to see the field as much as possible.
The 4th down decision I am coming around to.

Colts And Orioles 10-01-2018 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 83423)



Players don't want ties. They don't bust their asses for 60 plus minutes for ties. Every player in that locker room Has Frank Reich's back on this.



o


If you want to defend the decision to go for it on 4th down OK, but your reasoning in regard to the players' attitudes toward ties is absurd.

This is not sandlot football for bragging rights, and any player that isn't borderline retarded knows that a tie is better than a loss in the standings. If they are disappointed about busting their asses for 60-plus minutes for a tie, they are even more disappointed about busting their asses for 60-plus minutes for a loss. The players may publicly support Reich's decision even if some of them didn't agree with it, which I think is the right thing to do (for the sake of team unity) ........ but any player who truly believes and feels that a tie is worse than a loss needs to have his head examined.


o

YDFL Commish 10-01-2018 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 83471)
o


If you want to defend the decision to go for it on 4th down OK, but your reasoning in regard to the players' attitudes toward ties is absurd.

This is not sandlot football for bragging rights, and any player that isn't borderline retarded knows that a tie is better than a loss in the standings. If they are disappointed about busting their asses for 60-plus minutes for a tie, they are even more disappointed about busting their asses for 60-plus minutes for a loss. The players may publicly support Reich's decision even if some of them didn't agree with it, which I think is the right thing to do (for the sake of team unity) ........ but any player who truly believes and feels that a tie is worse than a loss needs to have his head examined.


o

Andrew Luck disagrees with you.

https://www.colts.com/video/andrew-l...ess-conference

Colts And Orioles 10-01-2018 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 83423)


Players don't want ties. They don't bust their asses for 60 plus minutes for ties. Every player in that locker room Has Frank Reich's back on this.





Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 83471)
o


If you want to defend the decision to go for it on 4th down OK, but your reasoning in regard to the players' attitudes toward ties is absurd.

This is not sandlot football for bragging rights, and any player that isn't borderline retarded knows that a tie is better than a loss in the standings. If they are disappointed about busting their asses for 60-plus minutes for a tie, they are even more disappointed about busting their asses for 60-plus minutes for a loss. The players may publicly support Reich's decision even if some of them didn't agree with it, which I think is the right thing to do (for the sake of team unity) ........ but any player who truly believes and feels that a tie is worse than a loss needs to have his head examined.


o




Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 83472)

o


No, he doesn't.

He said that agreed with the decision (that he loved it), which I stated you can make that argument (not a very good one, but you could make one), and I also stated that I think that they should support the coach's decision publicly. He said that "we play to win, we don't want to play for ties," not that the loss was less disappointing than a tie. That's the public front, which is the right thing to do.

He did not say or insinuate that he would have been more disappointed with a tie than with a loss. Anybody who feels that being 1-3 is better than being 1-2-1 needs a remedial course in math. I'm sure that Andrew Luck and every other Colts player was rooting for the Texans kicker to miss the field goal attempt on the last play of overtime........which would have resulted in a tie.



o

Racehorse 10-01-2018 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 83473)
o


No, he doesn't.

He said that agreed with the decision (that he loved it), which I stated you can make that argument (not a very good one, but you could make one), and I also stated that I think that they should support the coach's decision publicly. He said that "we play to win, we don't want to play for ties," not that the loss was less disappointing than a tie. That's the public front, which is the right thing to do.

He did not say or insinuate that he would have been more disappointed with a tie than with a loss. Anybody who feels that being 1-3 is better than being 1-2-1 needs a remedial course in math. I'm sure that Andrew Luck and every other Colts player was rooting for the Texans kicker to miss the field goal attempt on the last play of overtime........which would have resulted in a tie.



o

I bet Peyton would have gone for it, too.

albany ed 10-01-2018 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 83471)
o


...
This is not sandlot football for bragging rights, and any player that isn't borderline retarded knows that a tie is better than a loss in the standings. ...


o


Yes, a tie is better than a loss, but a win is better than a tie. Speaking only from my POV, I'd rather fight for the win than settle for the tie.

Gimmick 10-01-2018 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 83300)
It almost worked. Whatever

What almost worked? A completed pass that was still 20 yards away from FG range with 15 seconds left?

Going for it wasn't dumb. Going for it when even if you make it you're still not going to win the game... that was dumb!

Gimmick 10-01-2018 07:43 AM

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...lts#/questions

Quote:

To be fair, as head coach, Reich has far too much on his plate to have these kinds of numbers top of mind
No, he doesn't. He gets paid millions of dollars to know **** like this. It's not just Reich, it's a problem throughout coaching in the NFL. Hardly any of these people know what they are doing.

Chaka 10-01-2018 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimmick (Post 83489)
What almost worked? A completed pass that was still 20 yards away from FG range with 15 seconds left?

Going for it wasn't dumb. Going for it when even if you make it you're still not going to win the game... that was dumb!

This is a fair point I think. While I don't hate the decision to go for it, it's true that there wasn't going to be much time left on the clock (20-24 seconds) even if they did make it. The Colts would still have had one timeout, however, and all they needed was a FG, so wasn't THAT crazy. And absent a turnover, they wouldn't have done worse than a tie.

Another 10-15 seconds would have been better, but then again Reich would be giving this extra time to the Texans if the effort failed. Lost in all of this, by the way, is Texas's bad decision not to use a timeout after the 3rd down play.

njcoltfan 10-01-2018 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimmick (Post 83489)
What almost worked? A completed pass that was still 20 yards away from FG range with 15 seconds left?

Going for it wasn't dumb. Going for it when even if you make it you're still not going to win the game... that was dumb!

28 seconds left, and two timeouts remaining, plenty of time remaining to get into field goal range!!

Chaka 10-01-2018 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimmick (Post 83490)
https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...lts#/questions



No, he doesn't. He gets paid millions of dollars to know **** like this. It's not just Reich, it's a problem throughout coaching in the NFL. Hardly any of these people know what they are doing.

I don't believe the chance was only 10% for a victory. Lots of assumptions built into these types of analyses, and they are highly debatable.

Colts And Orioles 10-01-2018 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 83487)



Yes, a tie is better than a loss, but a win is better than a tie. Speaking only from my POV, I'd rather fight for the win than settle for the tie.



o


THEY DID fight for the win.


After the Texans tied the game with a field goal, the Colts went to the air, and got a first down. At that point, the Texans only had one timeout left with 1:24 left to play. If the Colts were playing for the tie, they would have gone with 3 extremely conservative run plays to run all of the time off of the clock. They didn't do that. They continued to aggressively throw the ball downfield, attempting to get themselves into field goal range. Once it was 4th down with only 27 seconds to play from that part of the field (their own 43 yard-line), punting would not have been playing for the tie ...... it would be accepting the reality that after having played for the win and not getting it, salvaging the tie was the most prudent and realistic option at that point.



o

Colts And Orioles 10-01-2018 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 83512)


I don't believe the chance was only 10% for a victory. Lots of assumptions built into these types of analyses, and they are highly debatable.



o



I agree ...... those formulas are debatable, and I do think that the Colts had better than a 10% chance to win by going for it on 4th down at that point.

However, I do think that their chances were still well under 50% at that point (perhaps somewhere between 20% and 25%), which is why I would have chosen to punt the ball.


If there were 10 second less left on the clock (17 instead of 27), I would have gone for it ........ the Texans were out of timeouts, and even if the Colts had failed to get the 1st down, there would have been only 11 or 12 seconds left on the clock, which is not enough time to complete a pass over the middle and spike the ball like they did. They would have needed to either complete a pass and gotten out of bounds to stop the clock (much harder to do when the opposition knows that you have to do that) or tried for 2 Hail Marys to the endzone (another low percentage play.)



o

kitekrazy 10-01-2018 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 83487)
Yes, a tie is better than a loss, but a win is better than a tie. Speaking only from my POV, I'd rather fight for the win than settle for the tie.

Only in hockey.

Colts And Orioles 10-01-2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 83478)


I bet Peyton would have gone for it, too.



o


Peyton would have played aggressively for the win prior to that 4th down play, just like Luck and the Colts did.

He would not necessarily have demanded to go for it on 4th down as he did in the 2005 season playoff game against the Steelers. In that situation, the Colts were losing by a score of 21-3 with only seconds left to play in the 3rd quarter, and it was a playoff game. Calling the punt team off of the field in that situation is much different than punting the ball on 4th down from your own 43 yard-line with 27 seconds left to play in overtime in an early regular season game with the team having a record of 1-2 in their first 3 games.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHL647Mclzk


o

rcubed 10-01-2018 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitekrazy (Post 83528)
Only in hockey.

and soccer

Racehorse 10-01-2018 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimmick (Post 83489)
What almost worked? A completed pass that was still 20 yards away from FG range with 15 seconds left?

Going for it wasn't dumb. Going for it when even if you make it you're still not going to win the game... that was dumb!

Your gimmick is getting old.

Chromeburn 10-02-2018 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimmick (Post 83489)
What almost worked? A completed pass that was still 20 yards away from FG range with 15 seconds left?

Going for it wasn't dumb. Going for it when even if you make it you're still not going to win the game... that was dumb!

20 yards in 15 seconds is plenty of time. 2 maybe 3 plays.


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