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-   -   Colts acquire QB Matt Ryan for a 3rd Round draft pick (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141404)

rm1369 03-22-2022 12:00 PM

I like the move for Matt Ryan, but to me that means you shoot your shot (within reason) over the next two seasons to win a SB. That means taking a hit and possibly having a down year 3 years from now. I’m ok with that. Restructuring a couple contracts to clear space to fill some holes with vets now is what should be occurring. LT and WR in particular, and I love the potential addition of Mathieu. What I don’t want to see is a rookie second or third round LT protecting Ryan. Draft a guy if it makes sense but have a viable alternative on the roster. Same with WR. The only current guy you can count on is Pittman. Don’t go into the season expecting a rookie to contribute on Strachan or Pattmon to play major roles. Or Campbell to stay healthy. If they step up great, but you have two years - don’t fucking waste them.

ChaosTheory 03-22-2022 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 227139)
I found it interesting that Ryan has been sacked more than 40 times each of the last 4 seasons yet has not gotten hurt. Makes me wonder that while we all blame Grigson for shortening Lucks career by not giving him a decent line maybe a whole lot of the blame lies on how Luck played-stupid in my opinion, not sliding and thinking he was superman. He obviously wasn't and it has been a nightmare for us. I apologize for bringing Luck into this, I am just impressed that a QB can be play behind a line like this and not get injured.

I haven't watched ATL film or anything so I'm just pulling this out of my ass, but do you remember how Manning used to take a sack? If he saw a guy coming, he collapsed like he took a bullet to the head. I'm curious if Ryan is similar.

That said, 40+ sacks is insane. Your O-line losing and your receivers not creating separation are big factors... but people don't tend to blame QB's enough for a lot of sacks.

Chromeburn 03-22-2022 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 227152)
I haven't watched ATL film or anything so I'm just pulling this out of my ass, but do you remember how Manning used to take a sack? If he saw a guy coming, he collapsed like he took a bullet to the head. I'm curious if Ryan is similar.

That said, 40+ sacks is insane. Your O-line losing and your receivers not creating separation are big factors... but people don't tend to blame QB's enough for a lot of sacks.

Some guys know how to fall. What impresses me is his skills haven’t deteriorated with all the pressure like Wentz did. Luck would almost lean into the hit. Self preservation wasn’t in his dna.

Discflinger 03-22-2022 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 227151)
i like the move for matt ryan, but to me that means you shoot your shot (within reason) over the next two seasons to win a sb. That means taking a hit and possibly having a down year 3 years from now. I’m ok with that. Restructuring a couple contracts to clear space to fill some holes with vets now is what should be occurring. Lt and wr in particular, and i love the potential addition of mathieu. What i don’t want to see is a rookie second or third round lt protecting ryan. Draft a guy if it makes sense but have a viable alternative on the roster. Same with wr. The only current guy you can count on is pittman. Don’t go into the season expecting a rookie to contribute on strachan or pattmon to play major roles. Or campbell to stay healthy. If they step up great, but you have two years - don’t fucking waste them.

stfu

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 03-22-2022 12:32 PM

Al Breer of Sports Illustrated had a good write-up about the situation - comments about Matt Ryan from rival GMs, the trade compensation that SF and Cleveland were asking for Jimmy G and Baker, etc. I have excerpted several parts from the article linked below:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/21/ma...-asking-prices

Quote:

You heard over and over last year that the Colts didn’t need, or want, Carson Wentz to be superman—and yet, there they were at the end of the season, still begging him to take the layups that were there for him in Frank Reich’s offense.

Matt Ryan, it’s fair to assume, won’t have that problem. The Falcons traded Ryan to Indy on Monday for the second of their third-round picks (Indianapolis keeps the 73rd pick, which they got from Washington for Wentz), and in the wash the Colts got a quarterback who is, more or less, exactly what they need: a point guard who will maximize the other guys that GM Chris Ballard and coach Frank Reich are going to put on the floor with him.

Last year’s trade for Wentz was a gamble that Reich’s old protégé could harness his ability and propensity to play heroball, and play effectively for Indy. Conversely, there’s very little projection on Ryan. He should be able to get the ball out, and to the Michael Pittmans and Jonathan Taylors and Mo Alie-Coxes that the Colts bring to the table.

That doesn’t mean Ryan is still the guy he was in 2016. The key, though, is that the Colts won’t ask him to be.
Quote:

“Really smart, still accurate to the short and intermediate levels,” says an NFC exec who has studied Ryan and gone against him regularly. “You have to protect him, he can’t move at all. His ability to throw the long ball was always about average and it’s in decline now—he can do it better than Drew Brees at the end, but it’s similar to that. … But he can get them in good plays, hand the ball to Taylor, and be efficient and accurate when he throws.

“He’s still good. … [the Falcons] just didn’t have enough around him anymore.”

And the Falcons still looked at him favorably—as a quarterback who could navigate traffic, with the toughness to take hits, play through injury, and throw effectively from different arm angles with chaos around him.

The good news for Ryan is he’ll have more help in Indy, and plenty of motivation to show people, at 38, what he’s got left. And if you’re Ballard and Reich, he’s different than Wentz or Philip Rivers or Jacoby Brissett—with a good shot to be, say, a three-year bridge to whomever the long-term answer at quarterback is. That is especially valuable this year, with Indy being without a first-round pick, and the draft’s quarterback class being so mediocre.
Quote:

“Matt Ryan was my first draft pick when I started out in Atlanta,” Dimitroff texted on Monday. “His unique intelligence and leadership ability made him the star of our new era. Matt has experienced exponential growth as a leader on and off the field and demonstrates commitment, competitiveness, durability, toughness and skills for the game unlike any other. I’m excited to see his passion and firepower impact the AFC and wish him the best of luck in Indianapolis.”
Quote:

Now, to be sure, the Colts dug themselves this hole with the swing-and-miss—and it was a big miss—on Wentz. But give Ballard credit, he got out in front of the quarterback market and moved his embattled starter, and his contract, off the roster, and got a better return than most believed he could. And now? Well, if you add up the picks that went back-and-forth between the Colts, and the Eagles, Commanders and Falcons, here’s how all three net out.


Colts get: 2022 second-round pick (42nd overall), 2022 third-round round pick (73rd overall), 2023 second-/third-round pick.

Colts give: 2021 third-round pick (84th overall), 2022 first-round pick (16th overall), 2022 second-round pick (47th overall), 2022 seventh-round pick (237th overall).

So if we assume Wentz is the Commanders’ starter, then the Colts gave up a 1, a 2, a 3 and a 7 for two 2s and a 3, and the 2s and 3s they got are higher than the ones they gave. And for that swap where three Top 100 picks went out and another three came in, they got that one-year swing with Wentz, and then Ryan to replace him.

Ideally, you don’t make the trade for Wentz in the first place. But from an asset management standpoint, Ballard did pretty well here.
Quote:

The Niners’ asking price for Jimmy Garoppolo has been steady for some time (other teams have said for a couple weeks that it’s about two second-round picks), and the Browns came in high over the weekend, with teams hearing they wanted a first-round pick for Baker Mayfield in the aftermath of the Deshaun Watson.

I’m pretty sure Cleveland’s going to have to adjust its price, and San Francisco might have to, too. In the end, you need suitors. Indy is gone now. The Saints are too, based on what they’re giving Jameis Winston, and already have Taysom Hill on the books. And Atlanta seems less-than-likely to want either Garoppolo or Mayfield. Which leaves … who? The Panthers? The Seahawks (hard to envision the Niners dealing their guy in-division)? Yeah, it’s hard to see where a bounty is going to come from at this point.

Spike 03-22-2022 12:45 PM

Looks like nobody wants fucking Baker Mayfield, except maybe Skip Bayless.

rm1369 03-22-2022 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discflinger (Post 227157)
stfu

I take it you disagree? I apologize for questioning anything about Ballard.

ChaosTheory 03-22-2022 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 227154)
Some guys know how to fall. What impresses me is his skills haven’t deteriorated with all the pressure like Wentz did. Luck would almost lean into the hit. Self preservation wasn’t in his dna.

Luck had like half of the Wentz gene. He didn't just shit his pants under pressure. He would navigate the pocket more similar to Manning. But he did go linebacker-mode a lot which is a big reason he got fucked up. From the little I've watched, Ryan definitely is a faller not a fighter.

ChaosTheory 03-22-2022 01:22 PM

By the way, if anybody is interested, here's a segment by Kurt Warner on Ryan vs. the Bucs. He throws in a few good plays, but it's mostly analysis of some poor plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2g5bnuh9u0

Some of these, you can see how bad the O-line is. And some, he might hit a RB for a smaller gain whereas he could've hit the seam for a big gain if he read the safety and looked to the other side. Stuff like that.

Stark difference from the errors Warner pointed out in the Wentz vs. JAX video. I think so, at least.

rm1369 03-22-2022 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 227164)
Luck had like half of the Wentz gene. He didn't just shit his pants under pressure. He would navigate the pocket more similar to Manning. But he did go linebacker-mode a lot which is a big reason he got fucked up. From the little I've watched, Ryan definitely is a faller not a fighter.

It’s exciting in the moment to see a QB with the fighter attitude, but I’ll take a “faller” at QB. The Luck lacerated kidney against Denver was one of those plays. Was awesome until you realize the cost.


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