Colts supposedly in "strong pursuit" of WR Tyrell Williams

[FatDT]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-free-agency-safeties-no-longer-forgotten-the-rise-of-the-slot-receiver-and-more-insider-notes/


Tyrell Williams is the consensus best outside wide receiver on this market, and at just 26 with no warts and strong production and great size and metrics, his time has come. He was stuck behind some studs with the Chargers but will eclipse $12M a year, I reckon, with the Colts and Raiders in strong pursuit …


It's La Canfora. His sources might be garbage, or completely imaginary. With so much cap space we will probably be linked to every big FA this year.

I don't see how Ballard would even briefly consider paying Williams $12 million per year. No chance.

[Lawrence Owen]

The WR market $ wise is higher than many seem to think. TY makes 15 mil this year.
12 mil is a little high IMO, but I can/do see Ballard chasing him. Most likely trying to sell the organisation's lock room, and uptrend, as selling points to bring his price down some.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

It's La Canfora. His sources might be garbage, or completely imaginary. With so much cap space we will probably be linked to every big FA this year.





I saw that, too, and figured that his "source" was the Colt's ~$100MM in cap space.

[Coltsalr]

He also could just be speculating. The “I reckon” part of it makes it a very awkwardly worded sentence.

[rcubed]

He also could just be speculating. The “I reckon” part of it makes it a very awkwardly worded sentence.
we are and have been linked to basically everyone due to our cap space and some specific needs.

i dont doubt that ballard is looking at williams because he does due dilignece.

[VeveJones007]

I could see this being another Anthony Hitchens situation where Ballard is interested but not at anywhere near that price point.

[VeveJones007]

The WR market $ wise is higher than many seem to think. TY makes 15 mil this year.
12 mil is a little high IMO, but I can/do see Ballard chasing him. Most likely trying to sell the organisation's lock room, and uptrend, as selling points to bring his price down some.

Listened to your free agency pod the other day and really liked your points about Humphries. Would you rather have Williams at $12MM/year or Humphries at $8MM/year?

I think I'd rather go with Humphries and grab one of the bigger receivers at 59 or 90. I think you can get what Williams would've gotten you without paying the extra $$.

[Coltsalr]

Listened to your free agency pod the other day and really liked your points about Humphries. Would you rather have Williams at $12MM/year or Humphries at $8MM/year?

I think I'd rather go with Humphries and grab one of the bigger receivers at 59 or 90. I think you can get what Williams would've gotten you without paying the extra $$.

Agreed completely. Humphries at $8m per year and then Damarkus Lodge in the draft and I feel great about our WR corps.

[Dam8610]

I'm sure they want Williams, Reich and Sirianni both have a former team connection here, so there's already intel in the building on the player. I highly doubt they want him at $12 million per year, however.

[smitty46953]

Damarkus Lodge in the draft.

Haven't seen him but have heard he drops a lot of balls? :cool:

[Coltsalr]

Haven't seen him but have heard he drops a lot of balls? :cool:

They’re his biggest knock to be sure but then again that’s the case for Ebron as well. Willing to accept that with it also comes with.

[Chromeburn]

Haven't seen him but have heard he drops a lot of balls? :cool:

He wouldn’t be my first choice, but it depends what round your talking. We need sure a handed guy that can move the chains on third down. This is a really deep draft at WR.

[Chromeburn]

Listened to your free agency pod the other day and really liked your points about Humphries. Would you rather have Williams at $12MM/year or Humphries at $8MM/year?

I think I'd rather go with Humphries and grab one of the bigger receivers at 59 or 90. I think you can get what Williams would've gotten you without paying the extra $$.

A bigger Y receiver on the outside will need more seasoning as a rookie. I think Williams could come in right away and have more impact. We could grab a late round slot receiver in the draft like Isabella, McLaurin, Godwin, or Penny Hart.

[VeveJones007]

A bigger Y receiver on the outside will need more seasoning as a rookie. I think Williams could come in right away and have more impact. We could grab a late round slot receiver in the draft like Isabella, McLaurin, Godwin, or Penny Hart.

Yeah, I think this is reasonable as well. A lot of options available to Ballard, so I doubt he overpays for a free agent.

[Chromeburn]

Yeah, I think this is reasonable as well. A lot of options available to Ballard, so I doubt he overpays for a free agent.

The 4 million difference is really not important to us. We have so much space it won't impact anything and by the time we will need the space for some new contracts Williams contract will be up. It should be who will have the bigger impact. And we run so much 12 personnel (2 TE sets), how much will a slot receiver be on the field?

[VeveJones007]

The 4 million difference is really not important to us. We have so much space it won't impact anything and by the time we will need the space for some new contracts Williams contract will be up. It should be who will have the bigger impact. And we run so much 2 TE sets, how much will a slot receiver be on the field?

What in Chris Ballard's tenure leads you to believe he thinks the same way?

[Chromeburn]

What in Chris Ballard's tenure leads you to believe he thinks the same way?

Seeing that we can win now and projecting future cap investments. We have another deal for Luck coming up, and figuring out what to do with Castonzo, but we aren't in cap trouble now or in the future. Any deal we make now will be done by the time this past draft class needs new contracts. I don't think he will overspend a ton, but 4 million is nothing we should sweat. Especially if it front loaded.

I expect he will try to sign a few top guys like he has the past two years. The difference is Luck is healthy and guys will listen. Then he will try to find up and comers for a good bargain.

[DrSpaceman]

I would not be happy with this signing at $12M a year for a WR

Would rather just wait and see how the current group and draft goes than do that.

Better to spend that money on the D.

This seems more like the type of signing Grigson would have made. The thinking of "We are on the cusp and have lots of cap space, so lets buy up whatever potential talent at whatever questionable price" is what he did.

[VeveJones007]

Seeing that we can win now and projecting future cap investments. We have another deal for Luck coming up, and figuring out what to do with Castonzo, but we aren't in cap trouble now or in the future. Any deal we make now will be done by the time this past draft class needs new contracts. I don't think he will overspend a ton, but 4 million is nothing we should sweat. Especially if it front loaded.

I expect he will try to sign a few top guys like he has the past two years. The difference is Luck is healthy and guys will listen. Then he will try to find up and comers for a good bargain.

Your reasoning is solid, but I think this is more what you would do rather than what Ballard will do. While I agree that he'll be more active, I expect him to stay consistent with what he's said: he places a value on a player and won't go over it. I don't think there's any way he puts a $12MM/year value on Williams.

[YDFL Commish]

A bigger Y receiver on the outside will need more seasoning as a rookie. I think Williams could come in right away and have more impact. We could grab a late round slot receiver in the draft like Isabella, McLaurin, Godwin, or Penny Hart.

What about Hunter Renfrow in the slot?

[Chromeburn]

Your reasoning is solid, but I think this is more what you would do rather than what Ballard will do. While I agree that he'll be more active, I expect him to stay consistent with what he's said: he places a value on a player and won't go over it. I don't think there's any way he puts a $12MM/year value on Williams.

Maybe, Ballard seems to know these AFC west players pretty well. $12 might be a little high, but the cap is almost 200 million. The average over four years is around 6% of your cap. That is worth a 2nd receiver who checks just about all the boxes. Also, that is just the rumor of what he wants. May not meet up with what he actually gets.

https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/

You can always draft a guy like Miles Boykin, Hakeem Butler, Jazz Ferguson, but receiver has a high learning curve. Will he contribute this upcoming year? I would rather draft a route runner and smooth receiver like Deebo Samuel than gamble on one of the tall guys coming out.

The Raiders are interested also. See if they throw money at him and he takes it. He might want to stay out west even though they are in a serious rebuild.

[Colt Classic]

He also could just be speculating. The “I reckon” part of it makes it a very awkwardly worded sentence.

He probably should've said, "I hear-tell" much more cromulent word choice.

[Lawrence Owen]

Listened to your free agency pod the other day and really liked your points about Humphries. Would you rather have Williams at $12MM/year or Humphries at $8MM/year?

I think I'd rather go with Humphries and grab one of the bigger receivers at 59 or 90. I think you can get what Williams would've gotten you without paying the extra $$.

Thank you for listening.
Yes, i'd rather have Humphries at 8 over Williams at 12. I'd even still rather give up our 1st round pick for OBJ. But I just think that kind of talent is generational, and OBJ/TY/Ebron/Doyle With our o-line, Luck, and Mack, would be the #1 O in the NFL.

[Dam8610]

Thank you for listening.
Yes, i'd rather have Humphries at 8 over Williams at 12. I'd even still rather give up our 1st round pick for OBJ. But I just think that kind of talent is generational, and OBJ/TY/Ebron/Doyle With our o-line, Luck, and Mack, would be the #1 O in the NFL.

Colts fans are too obsessed with offense. They need a defense as well.

[Lawrence Owen]

Colts fans are too obsessed with offense. They need a defense as well.
I don't think defense is over looked. I would love Ballard to go hard at Collins. And grab a couple D-linemen, and a CB in the draft. Maybe even go after Ziggy Ansah. I do NOT want Chiefs Ford or Houston.

But WR is a definite need also. And with the extra cap space, and 3 top 60 picks,...we can afford to get someone at WR, and focus the rest on D.

[Chromeburn]

Colts fans are too obsessed with offense. They need a defense as well.

I agree, although from what I have heard of Owen's podcast that is not the case with him.

But can you blame most Colt fans? Most became fans because of Peyton's led Colts and that high scoring offense. Spending constant first round picks on weapons, quite a few of which failed. Even with so much scoring now, the SB still came down to defense. That and Sean McKay's ego and his inability to develop multiple contingency gameplans.

[Chromeburn]

Thank you for listening.
Yes, i'd rather have Humphries at 8 over Williams at 12. I'd even still rather give up our 1st round pick for OBJ. But I just think that kind of talent is generational, and OBJ/TY/Ebron/Doyle With our o-line, Luck, and Mack, would be the #1 O in the NFL.

I would give up 26 in a heartbeat for OBJ, but the asking price will be much higher than that.

[FatDT]

OBJ is hurt a lot. When he's healthy and not having a slap fight with CBs covering him he's a generational talent. But he's missed too many games to give up picks and lots of cap for him. We don't need him to be a great team.

[Chromeburn]

OBJ is hurt a lot. When he's healthy and not having a slap fight with CBs covering him he's a generational talent. But he's missed too many games to give up picks and lots of cap for him. We don't need him to be a great team.

Depends what the picks are for me. Our top three? No. Our first and maybe a 4th? Sure. The probability he would have a bigger impact than whoever they draft at 26 is pretty good. The injury history does worry me, you just have to incorporate that in the equation and decide if the gamble is worth it or not. Best case is you get the most dynamic receiver in the league and would be a headache to defenses. Worst case, he is hurt a lot and plays half his games but is still a good weapon?

We don't need him to be a great team.

Can't we say that about everyone though? But stars make things easier and win games.

[Discflinger]

Haven't seen him but have heard he drops a lot of balls? :cool:

But are they inordinate and do they outweigh the big play ability? Sorry, I just loved Reich's presser where he must have said inordinate four times about drops.

[Dam8610]

I agree, although from what I have heard of Owen's podcast that is not the case with him.

But can you blame most Colt fans? Most became fans because of Peyton's led Colts and that high scoring offense. Spending constant first round picks on weapons, quite a few of which failed. Even with so much scoring now, the SB still came down to defense. That and Sean McKay's ego and his inability to develop multiple contingency gameplans.

Yes, I can. I was a Colts fan before it, but I was 12 years old when Peyton Manning played his first NFL game. If anything, I should be the type of fan of which you speak. I'm not because I watched football and quickly figured out that scoring a lot of points doesn't matter if stopping the other team from scoring isn't a thing that happens.

[smitty46953]

But are they inordinate and do they outweigh the big play ability? Sorry, I just loved Reich's presser where he must have said inordinate four times about drops.

Yes I noticed that too … :cool:

[FatDT]

Depends what the picks are for me. Our top three? No. Our first and maybe a 4th? Sure. The probability he would have a bigger impact than whoever they draft at 26 is pretty good. The injury history does worry me, you just have to incorporate that in the equation and decide if the gamble is worth it or not. Best case is you get the most dynamic receiver in the league and would be a headache to defenses. Worst case, he is hurt a lot and plays half his games but is still a good weapon?



Can't we say that about everyone though? But stars make things easier and win games.

I don't disagree that OBJ would probably have a bigger impact than whoever was picked at 26 and the 4th round, IF I wasn't worried about his injuries. The guy has played one complete season.

Yes, we can say that about any one player. The big difference for OBJ specifically is that he checks about every negative box.

- Injuries
- Questionable locker room fit (whether or not you think this is important, Ballard does)
- Loss of picks
- Big cap dollars
- We have an elite QB that can elevate his WRs

Mid-tier QBs with middling offensive coaches need superstar WRs. Superstar QBs like Luck do still need weapons, but they don't need the best talent in the NFL in order to play at the highest levels. Especially with a coach like Reich in place, who is a strong offensive planner and is already a HC, so there's no threat of the OC leaving and a new system being implemented.

No denying OBJ is a great player but the risks involved with bringing him in are not worth it IMO.

[Chromeburn]

I don't disagree that OBJ would probably have a bigger impact than whoever was picked at 26 and the 4th round, IF I wasn't worried about his injuries. The guy has played one complete season.

Yes, we can say that about any one player. The big difference for OBJ specifically is that he checks about every negative box.

- Injuries
- Questionable locker room fit (whether or not you think this is important, Ballard does)
- Loss of picks
- Big cap dollars
- We have an elite QB that can elevate his WRs

Mid-tier QBs with middling offensive coaches need superstar WRs. Superstar QBs like Luck do still need weapons, but they don't need the best talent in the NFL in order to play at the highest levels. Especially with a coach like Reich in place, who is a strong offensive planner and is already a HC, so there's no threat of the OC leaving and a new system being implemented.

No denying OBJ is a great player but the risks involved with bringing him in are not worth it IMO.

Hard to argue with that. I might take the gamble because I think we need another weapon somewhere in the offense to open things up. However, it definitely will not happen b/c of points two and three you list.

[Chromeburn]

Yes, I can. I was a Colts fan before it, but I was 12 years old when Peyton Manning played his first NFL game. If anything, I should be the type of fan of which you speak. I'm not because I watched football and quickly figured out that scoring a lot of points doesn't matter if stopping the other team from scoring isn't a thing that happens.

I guess my point is that, before Peyton, Indiana was a basketball state and still largely is. So most fans are casual and look at the previous model of success and say "Let's do that again." Even though they saw plenty of times the benefits of a stout defense, including the reason they actually won a SB.

Hence where a lot of the "we need a receiver more than anything" stuff comes from ie: we need the second coming of Reggie Wayne in order to be successful.

[Chromeburn]

Your reasoning is solid, but I think this is more what you would do rather than what Ballard will do. While I agree that he'll be more active, I expect him to stay consistent with what he's said: he places a value on a player and won't go over it. I don't think there's any way he puts a $12MM/year value on Williams.

I forgot to add that both Sirianni and Reich coached Williams with the Chargers I believe.

[Lawrence Owen]

But are they inordinate and do they outweigh the big play ability? Sorry, I just loved Reich's presser where he must have said inordinate four times about drops.

LOL. Did you listen to my 'Reich press conference" pod?

[Lawrence Owen]

I don't disagree that OBJ would probably have a bigger impact than whoever was picked at 26 and the 4th round, IF I wasn't worried about his injuries. The guy has played one complete season.

Yes, we can say that about any one player. The big difference for OBJ specifically is that he checks about every negative box.

- Injuries
- Questionable locker room fit (whether or not you think this is important, Ballard does)
- Loss of picks
- Big cap dollars
- We have an elite QB that can elevate his WRs

Mid-tier QBs with middling offensive coaches need superstar WRs. Superstar QBs like Luck do still need weapons, but they don't need the best talent in the NFL in order to play at the highest levels. Especially with a coach like Reich in place, who is a strong offensive planner and is already a HC, so there's no threat of the OC leaving and a new system being implemented.

No denying OBJ is a great player but the risks involved with bringing him in are not worth it IMO.

I do not see #2 as a problem. As in, I don't see him as a locker room problem. Is he a character with personality? yes, absolutely. But we have players like that already, but they are not locker room problems. And neither do I think is OBJ. He is just a very fiery player, with strong emotions on the field. But he never, ever throws his players under the bus, or anything like that. He's stood up for his QB and other players on the team when push came to shove. That IMO shows that high character Ballard is looking for.
Ballard and Reich both have stated that yes, they would indeed get a big personality player, on a big contract, if it was the right fit. I can't think of a better fit, offensively, than OBJ. Defense is something entirely different, and we do have serious needs there. But if we can lock down our entire offense for the foreseeable future, and only have one side of the ball to have to focus on for the future,...why not do it? And our defense isn't bad right now either. It was top ten by the end of the year. They really picked up as the season progressed. We need a couple pass rushers, and some depth, (or stand-out) in the DB area.
Injury is an issue, I agree. But how less often do you think he'll get injured if he's not forced on every snap to fight off double coverage? With T.Y., and Ebron, and Doyle, teams can't focus on doubling him. 1-1 match-ups vrs OBJ?,...I'd take that every day, and 2ce on Sundays. :)

[VeveJones007]

Re: OBJ, you can debate the merits of trading for him, but I just don't think there's a remote possibility Ballard would pay what it would take, so it's a non-starter for me.

[Discflinger]

I guess my point is that, before Peyton, Indiana was a basketball state and still largely is. So most fans are casual and look at the previous model of success and say "Let's do that again." Even though they saw plenty of times the benefits of a stout defense, including the reason they actually won a SB.

Hence where a lot of the "we need a receiver more than anything" stuff comes from ie: we need the second coming of Reggie Wayne in order to be successful.
Myself, no. I love the team's new identity.

[Coltsalr]

Breer also names the Colts as being one of the teams in pursuit of Williams:


I’d expect Williams to get somewhere around $12 million per year, which would put him comfortably in the top 20 players at his position in terms of salary. Based on what happened in Indy, that money could come from the Browns, Raiders, Colts or Bills, or maybe the Jets or Lions.


https://amp.si.com/nfl/2019/03/07/free-agency-under-radar-tyrell-williams-chargers-trent-brown-jamison-crowder?__twitter_impression=true

[rcubed]

Fantastic reporting! Lets name like 10 possible teams that might need a WR and has some cap space! Yay twitter!

[JAFF]

Fantastic reporting! Lets name like 10 possible teams that might need a WR and has some cap space! Yay twitter!

Are you telling me I shouldn't believe the internet? :eek: