Quick thoughts on Dolphins-Colts

[GoBigBlue88]

1. That was one of the stranger games I've seen. The Colts tried to give the game to the Dolphins for 2.5 quarters. Then the Dolphins just, like, punted the game at the end. So weird.

2. Andrew Luck didn't have a great game today. His placement was off even besides the INTs. But you know what? He had a signature magic moment. We shouldn't take for granted that 25-26ish other franchises don't have that.

3. Re: the Brissett-Luck play, look, yes, it was dumb. But I heard a lot of people equating it to the Ebron Special and whining, and let's be clear: the Ebron Special didn't expose Luck to any hit and just asked him to dive. This play was a hospital ball on a shitty, shitty throw from Brissett which massively exposed Luck. Bad Week 12 playcall even with the throw being bad.

4. Eric Ebron is so good in the red zone. He just boxes everyone out. What an addition he's been. Love having him on the roster.

5. Dontrelle Inman continues to impress me. Just so reliable. Would be a great WR4 option to eat those Chester Rogers snaps if he returns next year.

6. I know Marlon Mack argued 5+ YPC, but that was inflated a bit by Dolphins dropping into a deep Cover-2 shell. I thought he left a lot of yards on the field, especially in the first 3 quarters. I think Hines and Wilkins are better runners. But the quandary is: can you trust Hines/Wilkins to hold on to the ball and pass protect? Clearly not. So Mack *should* be RB1, but I'm just pointing out that it's a more complex split than most realize.

7. I thought Evan Boehm was OK today. Colts missed Ryan Kelly, clearly. Mack's concussion came from Boehm missing a block. Seemed like Luck was hesitant to step up into the pocket today.

8. Sucked to see Wilkins fumble. Honestly, if he doesn't, I think Colts win going away. That clearly cost him trust, and fairly so. I hate that he just laid on the ground and watched the ball bounce too. Go make a play for it, dude! But mostly sucked because I wanted to see what he would do with more touches. I think he's still a good piece.

9. Such a weird game for the defense. Almost don't know what to call out. It seemed like the Darius Leonard injury at the jump just totally sank them. Then he came back and it was a rollercoaster affair.

It's probably easier to break it down to...

I LIKED:

* Quincy Wilson: He played terrific today. Great ball-tracking to deny a deep TD throw and generally locked up his man in coverage, bought some coverage sacks.

* Margus Hunt in the 4Q: Not sure where he was in the first 3 quarters, but he was first four weeks Margus Hunt in the fourth.

* Outside of the Drake screen TD, this team attacked the screen well all day.

* The tightening of third down zones. In the second half, the team was SO much sharper on third down. They didn't just concede space.


I DIDN'T LIKE:

* The freaking penalties. Al Woods should not be baited into encroachment when it's clear Tannehill is never gonna snap the ball...

* Anthony Walker had a terrible game. He knows it.

* Kenny Moore's missed tackle on Kenyan Drake, because it just exemplified how sloppy the team was at times today.

* Malik Hooker's tackling, which is a red flag at this point.

10. Once a game, Jabaal Sheard just decides he's going to sled a tackle back into the QB. Love seeing that. He doesn't have the athleticism to be a multi-sack-per-game guy, but his strength off the edge is a huge asset.

11. Chris Milton was painful on special teams today. He almost sprung Rogers last week. Today, though, he couldn't keep contain on the gunner to save his life. Got Rogers killed on one play, blocked in the back on another. You can't be the team's designated special teams corner and suck on special teams...

12. Thought it was weird the Colts went away from the run so much in the 2Q and 3Q. They wanted to take a lot of deep shots, which I don't mind, but clearly the Dolphins were staying disciplined in the back end and those shots weren't there. I think the run lanes were there; Colts either ignored them or Mack didn't find them until late.

13. It is good to see this team win a sloppy game against level competition. Their defense stepped up when asked to. Their offense found their Luck Magic when they had to. They know Vinatieri is Vinatieri when called upon. It was ugly, and I think everyone walks away feeling like they left something on the field today, but it's gotta feel good knowing you're good enough to survive on your C game.

[DrSpaceman]

Just lots of sloppy play and mistakes today

The good news is, they still won despite that, against a decent team

The bad news is if they keep playing like that on a regular basis, they will remain a .500 team.

And it was mistakes all around.

Missed tackle on Drake

Desir can't let than throw and catch happen

Luck making just two dumb throws for INTs.

AV and the shanked FG

stupid penalties all around, especially the offside and special teams penalty that placed the offense back at the 10 instead of at the 30-35 in the 4th quarter

Don't know what happened to the run D for most of this game.

That 4th down call......OK, you got the first down, but a great way to get your QB hurt again.

Blocked kick.

Winning ugly, one where you just take it and move on. But the team just is not good enough to win like that most weeks.

[Indiana V2]

I will say despite the 2 interceptions, Luck still was 30 of 37 passing, with 3 toichdowns. That's not all that bad really.

[Racehorse]

I will say despite the 2 interceptions, Luck still was 30 of 37 passing, with 3 toichdowns. That's not all that bad really.Over 80%

[GoBigBlue88]

I will say despite the 2 interceptions, Luck still was 30 of 37 passing, with 3 toichdowns. That's not all that bad really.

True but some of these were great plays by the receivers. I know Mack and Wilkins each had some great adjustments to poorly placed passes.

Also lucky not to be picked another time on the pass to Inman that wasn't flagged for PI, tbh.

Ultimately, just saying: Luck won it with his magic in the end, after being pretty blah for a 2 quarter stretch. Which just reinforces how much he's back.

[Butter]

I need to apologize to al Colts fans, Wilkins fumble was my fault. I had just made a comment before that play that he seemed like he was starting to become a valuable part of our RB rotation and then bam he fumbles.

[omahacolt]

I need to apologize to al Colts fans, Wilkins fumble was my fault. I had just made a comment before that play that he seemed like he was starting to become a valuable part of our RB rotation and then bam he fumbles.

good job, butter. you son of a bitch

[nate505]

2. Andrew Luck didn't have a great game today. His placement was off even besides the INTs. But you know what? He had a signature magic moment. We shouldn't take for granted that 25-26ish other franchises don't have that.


Damn near my thought exactly. He was good, then terrible for most of the game, and then had an absolutely stellar 3 drives at the end. The TD to Ebron was spectacular.

[Puck]

My thoughts. Shakey game. But we're 6-5 with only Baltimore standing in the way for the 6 seed!!!!


Just keep winning no matter how ugly!!!!!!

[nate505]

* Malik Hooker's tackling, which is a red flag at this point.


So can anyone smarter than me explain if he's either just a bad player or if this scheme isn't using him to his advantages, which I thought was ball hawking.

[YDFL Commish]

Why is Milton even on the team? He's easily the worst CB defender we have...so much so that he lost playing time to guys that have been cut.

[Oldcolt]

Two best things for me.

1. We are going from a team that knows how to lose to a team that knows how
to win. Maybe not there yet but pretty darn close

2. If Quincy Wilson can continue his development and become a serviceable corner it would be a huge boon to this defense. Don't have faith that he is there yet but it sure is looking like it is starting to happen.

[omahacolt]

if gbb doesnt mind i will add some thoughts here.


1) fuck that was a sloppy game. i was sitting there watching the game and all was good at first. d started out bad but overall i was happy. so i am sitting there throwing back some beers and the kid is at the table coloring or drawing or something. who fucking knows. the colts start fucking up and i start getting pissed.

about 10 minutes into the 2nd quarter the kid comes and sits in the recliner next to me to watch the game. she never does this. usually if she is around during the game i think it is good luck but today was not the day. she just sat there watching her dumbass videos on youtube while i struggled not to throw shit at the tv and cuss. thankfully she was there because i was losing my mind watching mistake after mistake.

anyway colts win, i didn't lose my temper too much and my tv was intact mainly because the kid for the first time this year sat with me while i watched a game. so win win. i guess.

2) Luck was a bit down but who cares. he was absolutely good enough to win. and he did.

3) our rb situation is good to problematic. depending on the week. Mack goes down like it is 2 hand touch. wilkins fumbles and hines gets the drops. but all of them, at times, ball out. that said, this is a game where this running game should have imposed their will. it didn't happen. thought hines had the best day of the backs

4) can we please coach our wr's to play smart ball when it comes to getting 1st downs. hilton early in the game stepped out when he could have gotten a 1st down. killed the drive. towards the end of the game, rodgers steps back instead of getting the easy 1st down. that shit is unacceptable.

5) as gbb said, kelly was missed. not that boehm was atrocious but he was missing blocks and the interior was just not as clean as it normally is. hopefully kelly is back next week but i do believe we can survive without him another week.

6) wtf desir? dude should have nightmares of that play until the day he dies.

7) shitty tackling again. we can't play a good zone d with shitty tackling. this doesn't seem to be a chronic issue. at times they tackle very well.

8) autry sucks. stop starting him. this d worked best with woods at nose and hunt at dt. why are they not doing this?

9) is hooker good? if you say yes, explain what he brings that any late round pick doesn't. dude makes pretty much zero plays for a top 15 pick.

10) where did turay go? is he hurt again. him and lewis need to step up.

11) the colts should send flowers to Adam Gase. he handed the colts the win. that was pagano level bad coaching. thanks bro

12) the pass from brissett to Luck was dumb. and a bad throw from brissett.

13) why does the dt drop in coverage multiple times a game? stop it

14) congrats to spike for winning the woody's elimator

15) this defense needs so much talent added to it. love the win but we have a long way to go

16) the colts are good enough to make the playoffs. without sitting on 60 plus million, we might be a contender this year. wasting years with Luck is retarded.

[omahacolt]

* Malik Hooker's tackling, which is a red flag at this point.


So can anyone smarter than me explain if he's either just a bad player or if this scheme isn't using him to his advantages, which I thought was ball hawking.

he covers ok. but he has no instincts to help in the run.

[Thorgrim]

if gbb doesnt mind i will add some thoughts here.


1) fuck that was a sloppy game. i was sitting there watching the game and all was good at first. d started out bad but overall i was happy. so i am sitting there throwing back some beers and the kid is at the table coloring or drawing or something. who fucking knows. the colts start fucking up and i start getting pissed.

about 10 minutes into the 2nd quarter the kid comes and sits in the recliner next to me to watch the game. she never does this. usually if she is around during the game i think it is good luck but today was not the day. she just sat there watching her dumbass videos on youtube while i struggled not to throw shit at the tv and cuss. thankfully she was there because i was losing my mind watching mistake after mistake.

anyway colts win, i didn't lose my temper too much and my tv was intact mainly because the kid for the first time this year sat with me while i watched a game. so win win. i guess.

2) Luck was a bit down but who cares. he was absolutely good enough to win. and he did.

3) our rb situation is good to problematic. depending on the week. Mack goes down like it is 2 hand touch. wilkins fumbles and hines gets the drops. but all of them, at times, ball out. that said, this is a game where this running game should have imposed their will. it didn't happen. thought hines had the best day of the backs

4) can we please coach our wr's to play smart ball when it comes to getting 1st downs. hilton early in the game stepped out when he could have gotten a 1st down. killed the drive. towards the end of the game, rodgers steps back instead of getting the easy 1st down. that shit is unacceptable.

5) as gbb said, kelly was missed. not that boehm was atrocious but he was missing blocks and the interior was just not as clean as it normally is. hopefully kelly is back next week but i do believe we can survive without him another week.

6) wtf desir? dude should have nightmares of that play until the day he dies.

7) shitty tackling again. we can't play a good zone d with shitty tackling. this doesn't seem to be a chronic issue. at times they tackle very well.

8) autry sucks. stop starting him. this d worked best with woods at nose and hunt at dt. why are they not doing this?

9) is hooker good? if you say yes, explain what he brings that any late round pick doesn't. dude makes pretty much zero plays for a top 15 pick.

10) where did turay go? is he hurt again. him and lewis need to step up.

11) the colts should send flowers to Adam Gase. he handed the colts the win. that was pagano level bad coaching. thanks bro

12) the pass from brissett to Luck was dumb. and a bad throw from brissett.

13) why does the dt drop in coverage multiple times a game? stop it

14) congrats to spike for winning the woody's elimator

15) this defense needs so much talent added to it. love the win but we have a long way to go

16) the colts are good enough to make the playoffs. without sitting on 60 plus million, we might be a contender this year. wasting years with Luck is retarded.
The kid is clearly the reason we nearly lost today. Next time she wants to bond during a game lock her in her room.

[omahacolt]

The kid is clearly the reason we nearly lost today. Next time she wants to bond during a game lock her in her room.

No joke I almost told her she needed to to get the fuck out of here

[Thorgrim]

Can’t agree more with 8 and 9. I used to think that Hooker was the victim of a bad scheme but he looks slow and seems to take bad angles as well.

[YDFL Commish]

if gbb doesnt mind i will add some thoughts here.
8) autry sucks. stop starting him. this d worked best with woods at nose and hunt at dt. why are they not doing this?



This one I agree with so much. Autry is a situational guy at best.

[WaynesWorld87]

8. Sucked to see Wilkins fumble. Honestly, if he doesn't, I think Colts win going away. That clearly cost him trust, and fairly so. I hate that he just laid on the ground and watched the ball bounce too. Go make a play for it, dude! But mostly sucked because I wanted to see what he would do with more touches. I think he's still a good piece.

I agree. Although the Dolphins defense gashed our defense with no resistance on their first possession, wee did the same to the Fins defense on our first possession and got a stop on the Fins second possession. Point being, it looked like maybe our defense was settled in a bit with the home crowd behind them.

Then, on our second possession we hit two big plays including the Wilkins play. It looked like, up until that point at least, our offense was going to have one of those days where they were going to do pretty much whatever they wanted and would score 30+ points. Unfortunately the Wilkins play ended in a fumble and it felt like it just halted everything and turned the game into a very erratic one from the Colts side.

And, like you said, it eliminated Wilkins from the game and he was looking very good up until he fumbled.

[omahacolt]

I agree. Although the Dolphins defense gashed our defense with no resistance on their first possession, wee did the same to the Fins defense on our first possession and got a stop on the Fins second possession. Point being, it looked like maybe our defense was settled in a bit with the home crowd behind them.

Then, on our second possession we hit two big plays including the Wilkins play. It looked like, up until that point at least, our offense was going to have one of those days where they were going to do pretty much whatever they wanted and would score 30+ points. Unfortunately the Wilkins play ended in a fumble and it felt like it just halted everything and turned the game into a very erratic one from the Colts side.

And, like you said, it eliminated Wilkins from the game and he was looking very good up until he fumbled.generally I forgive the first 2 drives on defense. Just hope for field goals.

Teams spend a week targeting how to attack the defense. I assume they have a good 10 or so plays that are going to be pretty good

[rcubed]

That was a stupid game.
Please stop throwing the ball to luck.

[sherck]

That was a stupid game.
Please stop throwing the ball to luck.
I agree.

That pass yesterday completely laid out Luck to be crushed....and he was.

I don't mind it once or twice a season for the complete "oh crud" factor but that is two games in a row now.

Take it out of the playbook!

Walk Worthy,

[Racehorse]

I agree.

That pass yesterday completely laid out Luck to be crushed....and he was.

I don't mind it once or twice a season for the complete "oh crud" factor but that is two games in a row now.

Take it out of the playbook!

Walk Worthy,

Speaking of taking it out, could someone remove the bot that is spamming the board trying to sell championship rings?

[Johanvil]

The reporters asked Reich about the pass to Luck. He said the play was not designed to end like that but Brissett and Luck adjusted pre-snap when the latter became uncovered.

Either way, stop throwing to Luck.

Glad with the win. Gase and his playcalling at the end was him rerunning the favor as the Colts did their best to lose that game earlier on.

The missed tackles yesterday was like having the whole Pagano era flashing before your eyes. Yikes.

[sherck]

Heh, factoid from MMQB:

Eric Ebron with the Colts = 11 reception TDs in 11 games

Eric Ebron with the Lions = 11 reception TDs in 56 games

So glad they could not figure out how to use him.

Walk Worthy,

[GoBigBlue88]

I agree.

That pass yesterday completely laid out Luck to be crushed....and he was.

I don't mind it once or twice a season for the complete "oh crud" factor but that is two games in a row now.

Take it out of the playbook!

Walk Worthy,

What was wrong with the throw to Luck last week?

[Pez]

What was wrong with the throw to Luck last week?

It was incomplete?

Andrew luck lost a season and a half by being hit, why intentionally expose him to being hit?

Why take a top tier QB and throw passes to him?

[Chromeburn]

The reporters asked Reich about the pass to Luck. He said the play was not designed to end like that but Brissett and Luck adjusted pre-snap when the latter became uncovered.

Either way, stop throwing to Luck.

Glad with the win. Gase and his playcalling at the end was him rerunning the favor as the Colts did their best to lose that game earlier on.

The missed tackles yesterday was like having the whole Pagano era flashing before your eyes. Yikes.

Freaking QBs, you have to protect them from themselves. I bet they had it all worked out way before pre-snap.

[Chromeburn]

Heh, factoid from MMQB:

Eric Ebron with the Colts = 11 reception TDs in 11 games

Eric Ebron with the Lions = 11 reception TDs in 56 games

So glad they could not figure out how to use him.

Walk Worthy,

I bet Lion fans are so pissed. Best TE in football right now.

[DragonTails]

What was wrong with the throw to Luck last week?

More exposure to hits. Just because he didn't get hit doesn't mean it was safe. You can't predict how a play will develop (unless it is a pagano play).

If I run through a shooting range and don't get shot, is it still safe to do?

[Thorgrim]

Heh, factoid from MMQB:

Eric Ebron with the Colts = 11 reception TDs in 11 games

Eric Ebron with the Lions = 11 reception TDs in 56 games

So glad they could not figure out how to use him.

Walk Worthy,

Reich>>>Cardboard/Clappy

[VeveJones007]

Two best things for me.

1. We are going from a team that knows how to lose to a team that knows how
to win. Maybe not there yet but pretty darn close

2. If Quincy Wilson can continue his development and become a serviceable corner it would be a huge boon to this defense. Don't have faith that he is there yet but it sure is looking like it is starting to happen.

#1 is the biggest takeaway from yesterday for me. That seemed like a game this team loses in September, which just points to the growth we've seen since then.

[Butter]

What was wrong with the throw to Luck last week?
Nothing. I mean it would have been nice if it was caught, but it was thrown were only Luck could catch it and he was not exposed to a massive hit.

[VeveJones007]

Regarding the throw to Luck, I don't mind the play. I just hate using it in that situation. The stakes aren't nearly high enough to risk it there.

[Oldcolt]

Regarding the throw to Luck, I don't mind the play. I just hate using it in that situation. The stakes aren't nearly high enough to risk it there.

I love the philosophy behind the throw (have fun, mix it up, do stuff nobody expects) but hate the play. I don't want Luck taking even one extra hit in a game. Hopefully we have seen the last of that shit.

[FatDT]

I love the philosophy behind the throw (have fun, mix it up, do stuff nobody expects) but hate the play. I don't want Luck taking even one extra hit in a game. Hopefully we have seen the last of that shit.

I still say it wasn't the play, it was the throw. If Brisset zips it into the numbers Luck catches the ball and rolls to the ground for a 1st down. Throwing it 10 ft. in the air was the problem.

[Oldcolt]

I still say it wasn't the play, it was the throw. If Brisset zips it into the numbers Luck catches the ball and rolls to the ground for a 1st down. Throwing it 10 ft. in the air was the problem.

I hate the play because Luck is free to get hit. I don't trust him roll onto the ground. Priority #1 should be to protect Luck at all costs. Last year sucked.

[HoosierinFL]

I still say it wasn't the play, it was the throw. If Brisset zips it into the numbers Luck catches the ball and rolls to the ground for a 1st down. Throwing it 10 ft. in the air was the problem.

Exactly this. Brissett hung Luck out to dry on that. A better pass and Luck would have caught it with his feet on the ground and as you said, roll to the ground, or even advance the ball a little bit while running toward the sideline/out of bounds.

[FatDT]

I hate the play because Luck is free to get hit. I don't trust him roll onto the ground. Priority #1 should be to protect Luck at all costs. Last year sucked.

I think Luck has turned the corner on that. He is not hunting down defensive players that intercept him anymore. He's looking to throw first, not run. He's pulled up and thrown the ball instead of running into open field multiple times this year. He went out of bounds instead of pushing for a TD, told Reich he wanted the TD, and Reich told him "You did the right thing, I would've come out there and bodyslammed you if you'd done that." Reich is getting through to Luck and Luck is playing better for it.

I did not love the call, but a better throw from Brisset and we would be talking about this play way differently.

[Pez]

Heh, factoid from MMQB:

Eric Ebron with the Colts = 11 reception TDs in 11 games

Eric Ebron with the Lions = 11 reception TDs in 56 games

So glad they could not figure out how to use him.

Walk Worthy,

He's on pace to break Gronkowski's record of 17 in a season for a TE.

[rcubed]

I bet Lion fans are so pissed. Best TE in football right now.
best red-zone TE in football

[rcubed]

I think Luck has turned the corner on that. He is not hunting down defensive players that intercept him anymore. He's looking to throw first, not run. He's pulled up and thrown the ball instead of running into open field multiple times this year. He went out of bounds instead of pushing for a TD, told Reich he wanted the TD, and Reich told him "You did the right thing, I would've come out there and bodyslammed you if you'd done that." Reich is getting through to Luck and Luck is playing better for it.

I did not love the call, but a better throw from Brisset and we would be talking about this play way differently.
still don't like it. you are correct in that the throw was bad, but why put luck luck in that situation to begin with. in the superbowl when you need a TD for a win and no one is expecting it, ok. playing the fins when you are 5-5 and trying to get a first down, not the best choice imo.

[VeveJones007]

He's on pace to break Gronkowski's record of 17 in a season for a TE.

No he isn't. 11 games, 11 TDs is a 16 TD pace.

[Pez]

No he isn't. 11 games, 11 TDs is a 16 TD pace.

Fair enough... I stand humbly corrected.

But fuck Gronk.

[Indystu2]

Agreed on a few things already posted:
- Mack going down too easily - arm tackles really?
- T.Y. not reaching for the 1st down on that early drive. All he had to do reach the ball out.
- Tackling reverted back to stupid
- running into a player does not constitute a tackle! wrap the F up!
- our D seems to go into a "prevent" at the end of the half, we all know what that does
- Stick to the run when it is working, went away from it for a while there

SO glad we eeked that win out. Jeez.

[Chromeburn]

Fair enough... I stand humbly corrected.

But fuck Gronk.

He could score more than one TD in a game. Not exactly a reach.

[Dam8610]

He could score more than one TD in a game. Not exactly a reach.

Hasn't he scored 5 in the last 2?

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Hasn't he scored 5 in the last 2?


No, the last 2 games are:

2 receiving TD's vs. Miami - Week 12
0 receiving TD's vs. Tenn (wasn't even targeted the entire game) - Week 11

He did have 2 receiving TD's and 1 rushing TD the week before vs JAX - Week 10.

[Chromeburn]

Hasn't he scored 5 in the last 2?

Last three, he was a distraction against the Titans. Losing Doyle will hurt though because Doyle allows Ebron to be the h-back that he is and not have to block so much.

[kitekrazy]

still don't like it. you are correct in that the throw was bad, but why put luck luck in that situation to begin with. in the superbowl when you need a TD for a win and no one is expecting it, ok. playing the fins when you are 5-5 and trying to get a first down, not the best choice imo.

Why didn't their defense see that. Good catch by Luck though. Maybe he can throw to himself when the other guys get the dropsies.

[Chaka]

16) the colts are good enough to make the playoffs. without sitting on 60 plus million, we might be a contender this year. wasting years with Luck is retarded.

Easy to say this, but a lot harder to prove. Can't we just be happy that the Colts are much better than most here expected this year? Free agency may have helped, but may have hurt too. No way to really say how signing "a cornerback" or "a wide receiver" would have impacted the games played this year. Who did you have in mind?

[Racehorse]

Why didn't their defense see that. Good catch by Luck though. Maybe he can throw to himself when the other guys get the dropsies.

Minkah thought it was a run play and bit on going to the RB/QB. This left Luck (almost) wide open.

[sherck]

Free agency is not a magical button to push to get an instant upgrade at a position.

Signing Norwell might have helped solve our problems at OG....but instead we ended up solving that issue with two much lower priced free agents (Slauson and Glowinski) whom, quite honestly, were having much better years than Norwell did before Slauson and Norwell headed to IR.

While I too did want another "splash' free agent or three this off season, I will put some faith in Ballard. So far, he has built a team that is exceeding my expectations for the season.

Let's see what he does in 2019 free agency. If we still end the off-season with $40m + left in the bank, I will be a bit peeved at that point.

Walk Worthy,

[Racehorse]

Easy to say this, but a lot harder to prove. Can't we just be happy that the Colts are much better than most here expected this year? Free agency may have helped, but may have hurt too. No way to really say how signing "a cornerback" or "a wide receiver" would have impacted the games played this year. Who did you have in mind?

I will add that much of those dollars will likely be pushed into future years to pay for upcoming FA players from our own team, which is wise. In reality, it will give us a shot at keeping a very good team intact for a small window of sustained excellence.

However, we will likely add a piece or two this offseason to try to put us over the top next year.

[Chaka]

Free agency is not a magical button to push to get an instant upgrade at a position.

Signing Norwell might have helped solve our problems at OG....but instead we ended up solving that issue with two much lower priced free agents (Slauson and Glowinski) whom, quite honestly, were having much better years than Norwell did before Slauson and Norwell headed to IR.

While I too did want another "splash' free agent or three this off season, I will put some faith in Ballard. So far, he has built a team that is exceeding my expectations for the season.

Let's see what he does in 2019 free agency. If we still end the off-season with $40m + left in the bank, I will be a bit peeved at that point.

Walk Worthy,

I agree with almost everything you said, except that I think you may be disappointed on your last point - I'm guessing we'll still have a sizable amount of cap room after the offseason.

From what I've read, and as Racehorse alluded to, Ballard is planning on keeping the cap room available to sign our own free agents. Since we don't have any major free agents scheduled to hit the market this offseason, I think we're in for another offseason like the last one - a few mid-market guys, and an outside chance at a larger signing - but likely conservative overall.

Maybe he'll make an effort to resign Kelly to a longer term deal, since if I'm not mistaken he'll be a free agent in 2020. The injury history worries me a little, but he's certainly played well enough to earn a second contract.

[omahacolt]

Easy to say this, but a lot harder to prove. Can't we just be happy that the Colts are much better than most here expected this year? Free agency may have helped, but may have hurt too. No way to really say how signing "a cornerback" or "a wide receiver" would have impacted the games played this year. Who did you have in mind?

Of course you can’t prove it. Not at this point. Pretty easy to see that Inman was a vast improvement. Mike Mitchell? Yep. Great add.

Maybe I am wrong but I can’t imagine we would be worse off by adding better talent. Usually that works out.

[Chaka]

Of course you can’t prove it. Not at this point. Pretty easy to see that Inman was a vast improvement. Mike Mitchell? Yep. Great add.

Maybe I am wrong but I can’t imagine we would be worse off by adding better talent. Usually that works out.

Haha - funny. Of course adding better players usually improves a team. My point is this: most of the free agents people here were pining for have underperformed, so adding them may not have helped at all. Imagine if we had signed Norwall - how would that have played out for us? Would we have drafted Nelson? How would Norwall's underperformance (if we assume he'd perform similar to how he performed in JAX) have affected our offensive line performance, and by extension, our entire offensive production? Yes, we'd have less cap space available, but would we have been better off?

Theorizing about adding "good' players is tempting, but ultimately foolhardy because there's no way to know how it would have played out, how the player's involvement would have affected the overall team performance, player development, and team chemistry.

I'm just saying that I'm happy with how things have turned out. If the team was 1-10 at this point and the draft picks had flamed out, then I guess I'd be ok with this type of criticism. But given what's happened this year, and the dramatic change in team perception, I'll disagree with it.

[Luck4Reich]

Why didn't their defense see that. Good catch by Luck though. Maybe he can throw to himself when the other guys get the dropsies.

Didnt Steve Young do this one time? Threw the ball and it was tipped. He ran up and caught his own pass. I may be thinking of someone else.

[Pez]

I think Ballard is cautious in this regard and is very cognizant of dollar valuye as well as cultural value.

Look at some guy like Glowinski. Solid lineman, 26 years old his role and does his job. Our staff has managed to get more from him than his last season in Seattle, and he signed a 1 year deal for minimum. There is value in signing him again in 2019.

[omahacolt]

Haha - funny. Of course adding better players usually improves a team. My point is this: most of the free agents people here were pining for have underperformed, so adding them may not have helped at all. Imagine if we had signed Norwall - how would that have played out for us? Would we have drafted Nelson? How would Norwall's underperformance (if we assume he'd perform similar to how he performed in JAX) have affected our offensive line performance, and by extension, our entire offensive production? Yes, we'd have less cap space available, but would we have been better off?

Theorizing about adding "good' players is tempting, but ultimately foolhardy because there's no way to know how it would have played out, how the player's involvement would have affected the overall team performance, player development, and team chemistry.

I'm just saying that I'm happy with how things have turned out. If the team was 1-10 at this point and the draft picks had flamed out, then I guess I'd be ok with this type of criticism. But given what's happened this year, and the dramatic change in team perception, I'll disagree with it.
Nobody gives a shit if you are “ok” with the criticism.

Some free agents are misses. Like Howard. Some are good. Like Inman and Mitchell. Like glowinski. Being on the outside of the playoffs with 60 million in the bank is valid criticism. Whether you like it or not.

Worst case, a healthy Luck is going to get you 8 wins. Every time. Give that man as much talent around him as you can. Anything else is dumb

[omahacolt]

Didnt Steve Young do this one time? Threw the ball and it was tipped. He ran up and caught his own pass. I may be thinking of someone else.

Mariota did against the chiefs for a td in the playoffs

[Luck4Reich]

Haha - funny. Of course adding better players usually improves a team. My point is this: most of the free agents people here were pining for have underperformed, so adding them may not have helped at all. Imagine if we had signed Norwall - how would that have played out for us? Would we have drafted Nelson? How would Norwall's underperformance (if we assume he'd perform similar to how he performed in JAX) have affected our offensive line performance, and by extension, our entire offensive production? Yes, we'd have less cap space available, but would we have been better off?

Theorizing about adding "good' players is tempting, but ultimately foolhardy because there's no way to know how it would have played out, how the player's involvement would have affected the overall team performance, player development, and team chemistry.

I'm just saying that I'm happy with how things have turned out. If the team was 1-10 at this point and the draft picks had flamed out, then I guess I'd be ok with this type of criticism. But given what's happened this year, and the dramatic change in team perception, I'll disagree with it.


We shouldn't have signed Ebron since he underperformed with the Lions... oh wait!

Seriously you dont really know how someone will perform where. But to stand pat when he could have made the team better is unacceptable. It's his job to make the team better sooner not later... he has done some good things dont get me wrong. But there is a short window in the NFL.... Dont wait if you have the resources to do it now!

[VeveJones007]

We shouldn't have signed Ebron since he underperformed with the Lions... oh wait!

Seriously you dont really know how someone will perform where. But to stand pat when he could have made the team better is unacceptable. It's his job to make the team better sooner not later... he has done some good things dont get me wrong. But there is a short window in the NFL.... Dont wait if you have the resources to do it now!

If Quincy Wilson is a Pro Bowl caliber corner in 2020 and is a major part of the Colts winning the Super Bowl that year, would he have gotten there if a veteran was taking his snaps in 2018?

Can't we just listen to Ballard and accept that 2018 was never about putting the absolute best team on the field? It was about development of the young talent on the roster to better set up the team for 2019-->. Some of you can complain about that approach, but compare this team to the likes of KC, NO, and LAR. No moves this offseason would have put the Colts in that class. The foundation of the team needed more time. Maybe they're in that realm in 2019 with more experience, another solid draft, and some key free agent acquisitions.

[Pez]

I agree that it seems like we should spend some of the money we have to get a WR or a some help on defense (perhaps a TE now that Jack is IRd).

The things we need to be careful of is again, value, not just dollars but value within our system and within our culture.

The Patriots have this bullshit cult of personality around BB and TB, despite everyone hating it outside of New England, it works. They cultivate it with personnel that are content with scraps of approval from BB's table and the chance to win another championship.

Andre Johnson wanted to win a championship, almost as bad as Grigson wanted to prove he was the smartest guy in the room.

So we signed Johnson and paid him 7.5 million for 42 catches and 4 TDs.

Ebron is a guy that wants to have an opportunity to start and get a fresh start someonwhere other than the toxic environment that Detroit became for him.

We sign Ebron and paid him 6.5 million for 44 catches and 11 TDs.

[Chaka]

Nobody gives a shit if you are “ok” with the criticism.

Some free agents are misses. Like Howard. Some are good. Like Inman and Mitchell. Like glowinski. Being on the outside of the playoffs with 60 million in the bank is valid criticism. Whether you like it or not.

Worst case, a healthy Luck is going to get you 8 wins. Every time. Give that man as much talent around him as you can. Anything else is dumb

Look, there’s a long term plan in place which, for some reason, you seem intent on torpedoing. You’re preferred approach has been proven incorrect over and over again, but you still insist on whining about the Colts’ free cap space. I gave you a perfectly good real-world example of this, but you ignore it because it doesn’t fit your world view and then you whine even more.

Yes, it’s easy enough to identify the good moves the Colts made after the fact (Mitchell, Glowinski, Inman, etc.), but how about providing some specific recommendations going forward? I’ve invited you to do this repeatedly, and you just ignore it. I get that this seems to be your shtick here, but who did you advocate the Colts use their cap space to sign this last offseason? Let talk about how those moves would have played out.

The Colts have exceeded nearly everyone’s expectations so far. That’s a fact. Yet you still criticize and complain that they should have done things differently. Yes, of course it is good to surround Luck with “as much talent around him as you can” – but I’ve challenged you to explain what talent you are referring to, and whether it would be any better than what we currently have. All I hear in response is crickets.

[Chaka]

We shouldn't have signed Ebron since he underperformed with the Lions... oh wait!

Seriously you dont really know how someone will perform where. But to stand pat when he could have made the team better is unacceptable. It's his job to make the team better sooner not later... he has done some good things dont get me wrong. But there is a short window in the NFL.... Dont wait if you have the resources to do it now!

I'm sorry if I was not clear - I was not saying the Colts shouldn't have signed any free agents. Ebron was a great signing, no question. My point is that I'm happy with where the Colts are now - the players, draft picks and free agents they have signed.

My point is that it's simplistic and foolish to say that we could now be a contender by signing some "good" free agents. My example of Norwall was to illustrate that changing the Colts approach last season would have a domino effect on other areas of the team that Colts fans might not like so much. Would we have Nelson? Would we have Leonard? These are valid questions, and all thing considered, I'm happy with how things turned out.

[Oldcolt]

Nobody gives a shit if you are “ok” with the criticism.

Some free agents are misses. Like Howard. Some are good. Like Inman and Mitchell. Like glowinski. Being on the outside of the playoffs with 60 million in the bank is valid criticism. Whether you like it or not.

Worst case, a healthy Luck is going to get you 8 wins. Every time. Give that man as much talent around him as you can. Anything else is dumb

I give a shit that Chaka is ok with criticism. And on this point I think he is absolutely correct. I understand that you think we should not have this much cap space available. You are wrong. Just look at the team that we have put on the field and where they are heading. I am saying that there were exactly zero players available in free agency last year who I can point to who would have definitely improved our win total. There were zero free agents I would have wanted to sit one of our young guys down for and impede their development. Our cap space will be used to sign real impact players, our own (nobody, nobody ever lets their impact players hit free agency except in incredibly rare instances). Show me the error of my thinking so I can join you in not giving a shit about Chaka.

[rcubed]

Colts lead the league in snaps by 1st and 2nd year players at 42% (next is 39% in SF)

[Pez]

Mariota did against the chiefs for a td in the playoffs

A 14 point solo play in fantasy... 6 for the TD pass, 6 for the TD catch, 1 for the reception and 1 for the rec yards. Other than that, fuck Mariota.

[Oldcolt]

To continue to beat a dead horse, Norwell was the one guy I think we all thought we needed to sign. If we signed him we would have had a lot less cap space (he makes 13 mil a year). Our team would also be worse than it is now. Before his injury he was not playing at all pro level. Average or a little below. One of our guards is all world and getting better and the other one is well above average. Both cost way less than Norwell. Good move not signing him Ballard.

[rm1369]

Omaha, man it’s a lost cause. When the team is 1-5 it’s evidence of how far away the team is and proof a few vet free agents wouldn’t have helped. When the team is 6-5 and Ballard is surprised at where the team is it’s proof that his methods worked - even better than expected. You can’t win.

It’s amazing to me how well the mantra has stuck. I reread the off-season free agency thread a month or so ago and I couldn’t find one person saying the team should shun free agency because you had to build a core first, etc. Not one. But now it’s so ingrained that even suggesting that a few vet free agents would have amplified the good work Ballard has already done is basically blasphemy. It’s amazing that the team found 3 throw away free agents that have significantly helped when apparently no other vets could. Lucky I guess.

I’m amazed at some of the arguments. If Wilson turns in to a pro bowler would he have got there with a vet in front of him? That’s crazy to me considering Wilson fell on the depth chart because of his poor play after being basically gifted a spot. And that he attributes his recent better performance to things he’s learned from Mitchel! The exact type of vet that I believed the team needed more of. If Wilson had pro bowl corner potential and wasn’t unlocking it because a mediocre vet was in fromt of him then you have the wrong damn coaches or a player with a shitty mindset. Players learn a lot from being able to pick vets brains and see the work ethic, film study, and how they take care of their bodies. I find it amazing that that’s now seen as a negative. All because the mantra that’s been preached: build a culture thru the draft. I didn’t see one of you preaching it prior to free agency though.

[Oldcolt]

Omaha, man it’s a lost cause. When the team is 1-5 it’s evidence of how far away the team is and proof a few vet free agents wouldn’t have helped. When the team is 6-5 and Ballard is surprised at where the team is it’s proof that his methods worked - even better than expected. You can’t win.

It’s amazing to me how well the mantra has stuck. I reread the off-season free agency thread a month or so ago and I couldn’t find one person saying the team should shun free agency because you had to build a core first, etc. Not one. But now it’s so ingrained that even suggesting that a few vet free agents would have amplified the good work Ballard has already done is basically blasphemy. It’s amazing that the team found 3 throw away free agents that have significantly helped when apparently no other vets could. Lucky I guess.

I’m amazed at some of the arguments. If Wilson turns in to a pro bowler would he have got there with a vet in front of him? That’s crazy to me considering Wilson fell on the depth chart because of his poor play after being basically gifted a spot. And that he attributes his recent better performance to things he’s learned from Mitchel! The exact type of vet that I believed the team needed more of. If Wilson had pro bowl corner potential and wasn’t unlocking it because a mediocre vet was in fromt of him then you have the wrong damn coaches or a player with a shitty mindset. Players learn a lot from being able to pick vets brains and see the work ethic, film study, and how they take care of their bodies. I find it amazing that that’s now seen as a negative. All because the mantra that’s been preached: build a culture thru the draft. I didn’t see one of you preaching it prior to free agency though.

Please name those few free agent vets that would have amplified his work. And yes I wanted more free agents to be signed. I now believe that Ballard actually understood the situation better than me. I was wrong then (and yes I could be wrong now). I've changed my mind because the facts before me have changed. Ballard was correct when we were 1-5 and he is correct now.

[VeveJones007]

Omaha, man it’s a lost cause. When the team is 1-5 it’s evidence of how far away the team is and proof a few vet free agents wouldn’t have helped. When the team is 6-5 and Ballard is surprised at where the team is it’s proof that his methods worked - even better than expected. You can’t win.

It’s amazing to me how well the mantra has stuck. I reread the off-season free agency thread a month or so ago and I couldn’t find one person saying the team should shun free agency because you had to build a core first, etc. Not one. But now it’s so ingrained that even suggesting that a few vet free agents would have amplified the good work Ballard has already done is basically blasphemy. It’s amazing that the team found 3 throw away free agents that have significantly helped when apparently no other vets could. Lucky I guess.

I’m amazed at some of the arguments. If Wilson turns in to a pro bowler would he have got there with a vet in front of him? That’s crazy to me considering Wilson fell on the depth chart because of his poor play after being basically gifted a spot. And that he attributes his recent better performance to things he’s learned from Mitchel! The exact type of vet that I believed the team needed more of. If Wilson had pro bowl corner potential and wasn’t unlocking it because a mediocre vet was in fromt of him then you have the wrong damn coaches or a player with a shitty mindset. Players learn a lot from being able to pick vets brains and see the work ethic, film study, and how they take care of their bodies. I find it amazing that that’s now seen as a negative. All because the mantra that’s been preached: build a culture thru the draft. I didn’t see one of you preaching it prior to free agency though.

You sign two high caliber UFAs at corner last offseason and there's a good chance Wilson gets cut earlier this year.

[FatDT]

Except Ballard DIDN'T "avoid" big name players in FA. He just wouldn't pay them what they wanted, so they went elsewhere. This was not a rigid plan. He pursued multiple FAs (as many here have said previously in their defense of Ballard), but wasn't willing to pay top dollar.

This narrative isn't even Ballard's. It's something some fans push because they want to hold Ballard up as infallible. Which makes no sense.

Again. Criticism isn't hate. No one is saying "Ballard is the worst GM and should be fired" or even saying he's doing a bad job. No one is perfect or above criticism.

[VeveJones007]

Except Ballard DIDN'T "avoid" big name players in FA. He just wouldn't pay them what they wanted, so they went elsewhere. This was not a rigid plan. He pursued multiple FAs (as many here have said previously in their defense of Ballard), but wasn't willing to pay top dollar.

This narrative isn't even Ballard's. It's something some fans push because they want to hold Ballard up as infallible. Which makes no sense.

Again. Criticism isn't hate. No one is saying "Ballard is the worst GM and should be fired" or even saying he's doing a bad job. No one is perfect or above criticism.

Same goes the other way. Not everyone defending the few UFA additions last offseason are claiming Ballard is the best GM and should get a lifetime contract.

All I've been saying is that it doesn't matter that he didn't sign an Allen Robinson or an Andrew Norwell last year. The team would still be out of the playoffs in the first or second round. Now, Ballard can go into 2019 with a clearer picture of his roster and more cap space to help turn next year's (or 2020's) team into a real contender. 2018 is about development and evaluation. If they win in the process, then that's icing on the cake.

[Oldcolt]

Except Ballard DIDN'T "avoid" big name players in FA. He just wouldn't pay them what they wanted, so they went elsewhere. This was not a rigid plan. He pursued multiple FAs (as many here have said previously in their defense of Ballard), but wasn't willing to pay top dollar.

This narrative isn't even Ballard's. It's something some fans push because they want to hold Ballard up as infallible. Which makes no sense.

Again. Criticism isn't hate. No one is saying "Ballard is the worst GM and should be fired" or even saying he's doing a bad job. No one is perfect or above criticism.

I don't hold him up as infallible in the least. I do think he has done a better job than most would have. I would love to discuss his mistakes. The complaint seems to be he should have signed some really good players. OK Who?

[1965southpaw]

Regarding the throw to Luck, I don't mind the play. I just hate using it in that situation. The stakes aren't nearly high enough to risk it there.


sorry to get in the way of the latest free agency pissing match...but I'm just getting caught up from traveling and wanted to clarify what was planned on that 4th down based on what we heard from Reich and Luck pressers after the game......

The plan was NOT for Brisset to throw to Luck. The plan was for Brisset to run for the first down. Luck was in as a decoy figuring that the Phins scouted that play from the prior week. When their defense didn't bite and lined up w/no body covering Luck Brisset and Luck changed the play.......pretty sure it was a player decision and not a coaching decision. Pretty sure they both heard about it later,

[omahacolt]

If Quincy Wilson is a Pro Bowl caliber corner in 2020 and is a major part of the Colts winning the Super Bowl that year, would he have gotten there if a veteran was taking his snaps in 2018?

Can't we just listen to Ballard and accept that 2018 was never about putting the absolute best team on the field? It was about development of the young talent on the roster to better set up the team for 2019-->. Some of you can complain about that approach, but compare this team to the likes of KC, NO, and LAR. No moves this offseason would have put the Colts in that class. The foundation of the team needed more time. Maybe they're in that realm in 2019 with more experience, another solid draft, and some key free agent acquisitions.

I accept that is what he is doing. I just think it is wrong.

[VeveJones007]

I accept that is what he is doing. I just think it is wrong.

And I'm not claiming it's "right." I'm just saying you and rm are getting your panties in a twist for no good reason. Only championships matter and no big UFA signings last offseason would have made a material difference in this team's odds to win their next Super Bowl, this season or in the future.

The cap space has to be used at some point. Why not use it when it maximizes the team's chance to win a title?

[JAFF]

Nobody gives a shit if you are “ok” with the criticism.

Some free agents are misses. Like Howard. Some are good. Like Inman and Mitchell. Like glowinski. Being on the outside of the playoffs with 60 million in the bank is valid criticism. Whether you like it or not.

Worst case, a healthy Luck is going to get you 8 wins. Every time. Give that man as much talent around him as you can. Anything else is dumb

They did that with Pagano and Grigson. Threw money and picks around and it didn't work well.

I like what Ballard is doing. He has HIS guys as a foundation. When there is a free agent he thinks will work here, he's going to go get him. He didn't flinch going after McDaniels as a coach. He didn't hesitate when McDaniels screwed us, (thank you Jesus) he was decisive and Reich was perfect.

And while hindsight is perfect, what top name, top of his game player was going to sign in Indy with Luck's health a major mystery. Luck's play is going to increase interest in this next off season.

[omahacolt]

Look, there’s a long term plan in place which, for some reason, you seem intent on torpedoing. You’re preferred approach has been proven incorrect over and over again, but you still insist on whining about the Colts’ free cap space. I gave you a perfectly good real-world example of this, but you ignore it because it doesn’t fit your world view and then you whine even more.

Yes, it’s easy enough to identify the good moves the Colts made after the fact (Mitchell, Glowinski, Inman, etc.), but how about providing some specific recommendations going forward? I’ve invited you to do this repeatedly, and you just ignore it. I get that this seems to be your shtick here, but who did you advocate the Colts use their cap space to sign this last offseason? Let talk about how those moves would have played out.

The Colts have exceeded nearly everyone’s expectations so far. That’s a fact. Yet you still criticize and complain that they should have done things differently. Yes, of course it is good to surround Luck with “as much talent around him as you can” – but I’ve challenged you to explain what talent you are referring to, and whether it would be any better than what we currently have. All I hear in response is crickets.

The colts are one game over 500. I am pretty sure that is about where most people here expected them to be. We will see where they end up. If they are 9-7 or 10-6, that is awesome. But how could anyone not wonder what they could have been if they tried harder.

The packers have an all world qb and they have 1 super bowl win to show for it. They believe in Ballard’s approach. Polian was the same way with manning. They won 1 super bowl.

The patriots on the other hand use any means necessary to add talent. They are constantly in the super bowl or the afc title game.

Andrew Luck is an all world qb. Why anyone would want to limit him at any time? You go all in every year. I will never fault a coach or gm for trying to win.

I am not going to name guys I wanted at this point. I don’t remember. And it doesn’t matter. It’s not my job. I don’t have all the information Ballard does.

[Racehorse]

They did that with Pagano and Grigson. Threw money and picks around and it didn't work well.

I like what Ballard is doing. He has HIS guys as a foundation. When there is a free agent he thinks will work here, he's going to go get him. He didn't flinch going after McDaniels as a coach. He didn't hesitate when McDaniels screwed us, (thank you Jesus) he was decisive and Reich was perfect.

And while hindsight is perfect, what top name, top of his game player was going to sign in Indy with Luck's health a major mystery. Luck's play is going to increase interest in this next off season.

I hear Bell is intrigued about playing alongside a healthy Luck.

[Racehorse]

The colts are one game over 500. I am pretty sure that is about where most people here expected them to be. We will see where they end up. If they are 9-7 or 10-6, that is awesome. But how could anyone not wonder what they could have been if they tried harder.

The packers have an all world qb and they have 1 super bowl win to show for it. They believe in Ballard’s approach. Polian was the same way with manning. They won 1 super bowl.

The patriots on the other hand use any means necessary to add talent. They are constantly in the super bowl or the afc title game.

Andrew Luck is an all world qb. Why anyone would want to limit him at any time? You go all in every year. I will never fault a coach or gm for trying to win.

I am not going to name guys I wanted at this point. I don’t remember. And it doesn’t matter. It’s not my job. I don’t have all the information Ballard does.
I know I wanted Norwell, as did most of us on here. However, hindsight says I was wrong about him. Now, did Ballard know how it would work out without him? I doubt he did and think he likely feels very fortunate in how it ultimately worked out for us.

[rm1369]

And I'm not claiming it's "right." I'm just saying you and rm are getting your panties in a twist for no good reason. Only championships matter and no big UFA signings last offseason would have made a material difference in this team's odds to win their next Super Bowl, this season or in the future.

The cap space has to be used at some point. Why not use it when it maximizes the team's chance to win a title?

My panties aren’t in a twist. I’m fully enjoying watching the young guys. I just believe the team could easily be in a better position than they are now if not for the forced youth movement. And where you apparently don’t see value in a playoff appearance, I see a lot of value for a young team. Especially with an elite QB playing at the top of his game.

[albany ed]

Just curious, and don't feel like doing the research, but does anyone know which free agents performed equal or better for the amount of the signing this year.

[rm1369]

Just curious, and don't feel like doing the research, but does anyone know which free agents performed equal or better for the amount of the signing this year.

Chaka made a thread a week or two ago about an article from sportrac ranking teams free agent hauls. It attempts to evaluate players against their contracts.

http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58190

[Colt Classic]

People keep throwing out the biggest of the big name free agents from last year. This team has lost 4 close games that came down to just a few plays. You don't need a $20 million free agent to swing 4 games that are that close, at least to the point where two of the four would become wins--and at that point, they would be fully in the driver's seat for the division. Forget Norwell, remember all the drops from the receivers over those close games? Sure, that's hopefully behind them now, but one more veteran receiver for 1 year, $6 million could've been useful when no one else could catch the ball. I've given the example of John Brown before, yet everyone is too busy citing Norwell as the only example since I guess he was linked to a bit of interest from the Colts. I don't care who wanted Norwell--that takes one Google search for "top free agents by position" to come to that brilliant idea that the Colts should have him on their want list.

I'll offer another option--trades. If you honestly looked at the depth and thought the WR position was good to go at the start of the year, great. It has turned into a strength, but again, those close games with the drops told a different story at the time. Kevin White on the Bears. Bears fans seem to think he's a bust, but who knows if it's just because he had a shaky Trubisky throwing to him last year. Maybe he does suck, but maybe he's better than Chester Rogers as your best option when another guy gets dinged.

[Oldcolt]

Is anyone up for making a run at Le'veon Bell next off season? Good runner, great pass blocker and catcher. Had a rep for being good in locker room. Hard nose player that seems to fit in what we are trying to build around here. Would improve running and passing game. We keep our draft picks. Cost us a ton of money but then what are we saving it for if not an elite difference maker in his prime? For me, this is the kind of guy you throw money at.

[Chaka]

The colts are one game over 500. I am pretty sure that is about where most people here expected them to be. We will see where they end up. If they are 9-7 or 10-6, that is awesome. But how could anyone not wonder what they could have been if they tried harder.

The packers have an all world qb and they have 1 super bowl win to show for it. They believe in Ballard’s approach. Polian was the same way with manning. They won 1 super bowl.

The patriots on the other hand use any means necessary to add talent. They are constantly in the super bowl or the afc title game.

Andrew Luck is an all world qb. Why anyone would want to limit him at any time? You go all in every year. I will never fault a coach or gm for trying to win.

I am not going to name guys I wanted at this point. I don’t remember. And it doesn’t matter. It’s not my job. I don’t have all the information Ballard does.

So you're "pretty sure" that most people were expecting the colts to be above .500 at this point? Really? Because I distinctly recall a lot more dire predictions, particularly when the Colts didn't sign the big name free agents that they were rumored to be interested in. I also recall several people, yourself included, openly complaining about Ballard's draft picks and the terrible roster he had assembled. Now you want to rewrite history to suggest that you expected this all along. Not so.

And I don't accept your premise that the Manning-led Colts failed to win more than one Super Bowl because they weren't spending in free agency. Please back up that statement with some facts because, honestly, your posts are pretty light on them. Talent was never the problem with those Colts - we had plenty back then. We won the division nearly every year, and set plenty of offensive records. But we lost a lot of playoff games we should have won, whether due to coaching, player performance or just plain bad luck. And before your Patriots envy gets out of control, remember who you're speaking about - they're convicted cheaters, so please don't cite to them as an example of model organization.

The idea that you go "all in" on free agency every year is short-sighted and limiting. This isn't FanDuel - you can have a long term plan. For the umpteenth time, I'll repeat again that the unused cap space this year is NOT LOST - it will still be there next year, and the next. The idea is to get the most out of your resources. Ballard's plan, as he has expressed it himself, is to let the team create a culture organically before adding big personalities/paychecks - particularly on defense. This plan is working. Not only are we outperforming this year, but we will have a built-in competitive advantage going forward for then next several years by virtue of our increased cap space.

But yet you endlessly complain about their failure to spend THIS year, and the Colts failure to sign these theoretical "good" players who would have improved the Colts without disturbing the progress they have already made. It's an easy and cheap complaint, but has no substance.

[VeveJones007]

My panties aren’t in a twist. I’m fully enjoying watching the young guys. I just believe the team could easily be in a better position than they are now if not for the forced youth movement. And where you apparently don’t see value in a playoff appearance, I see a lot of value for a young team. Especially with an elite QB playing at the top of his game.

And that better position in 2018 could have hurt their chances in future years. For example, say you sign Norwell to a massive deal and he goes the way of Jack Mewhort. That cap burden limits your flexibility to add or re-sign an important player or players in a year when you actually have a chance to win a title.

[VeveJones007]

Is anyone up for making a run at Le'veon Bell next off season? Good runner, great pass blocker and catcher. Had a rep for being good in locker room. Hard nose player that seems to fit in what we are trying to build around here. Would improve running and passing game. We keep our draft picks. Cost us a ton of money but then what are we saving it for if not an elite difference maker in his prime? For me, this is the kind of guy you throw money at.

Love him as a player, but don’t love that cap hit for a RB. Also, is anyone else scared off by the way his Steelers teammates talked about him and pillaged his locker this year?

[VeveJones007]

People keep throwing out the biggest of the big name free agents from last year. This team has lost 4 close games that came down to just a few plays. You don't need a $20 million free agent to swing 4 games that are that close, at least to the point where two of the four would become wins--and at that point, they would be fully in the driver's seat for the division. Forget Norwell, remember all the drops from the receivers over those close games? Sure, that's hopefully behind them now, but one more veteran receiver for 1 year, $6 million could've been useful when no one else could catch the ball. I've given the example of John Brown before, yet everyone is too busy citing Norwell as the only example since I guess he was linked to a bit of interest from the Colts. I don't care who wanted Norwell--that takes one Google search for "top free agents by position" to come to that brilliant idea that the Colts should have him on their want list.

I'll offer another option--trades. If you honestly looked at the depth and thought the WR position was good to go at the start of the year, great. It has turned into a strength, but again, those close games with the drops told a different story at the time. Kevin White on the Bears. Bears fans seem to think he's a bust, but who knows if it's just because he had a shaky Trubisky throwing to him last year. Maybe he does suck, but maybe he's better than Chester Rogers as your best option when another guy gets dinged.

Why would a decent receiver sign a one year prove-it deal like that with all the uncertainty about Luck? I would have loved that kind of deal you suggest, but ittakes two to tango. Indy was not a desirable destination in UFA last year. This year, on the other hand...

[Chaka]

Omaha, man it’s a lost cause. When the team is 1-5 it’s evidence of how far away the team is and proof a few vet free agents wouldn’t have helped. When the team is 6-5 and Ballard is surprised at where the team is it’s proof that his methods worked - even better than expected. You can’t win.

It’s amazing to me how well the mantra has stuck. I reread the off-season free agency thread a month or so ago and I couldn’t find one person saying the team should shun free agency because you had to build a core first, etc. Not one. But now it’s so ingrained that even suggesting that a few vet free agents would have amplified the good work Ballard has already done is basically blasphemy. It’s amazing that the team found 3 throw away free agents that have significantly helped when apparently no other vets could. Lucky I guess.

I’m amazed at some of the arguments. If Wilson turns in to a pro bowler would he have got there with a vet in front of him? That’s crazy to me considering Wilson fell on the depth chart because of his poor play after being basically gifted a spot. And that he attributes his recent better performance to things he’s learned from Mitchel! The exact type of vet that I believed the team needed more of. If Wilson had pro bowl corner potential and wasn’t unlocking it because a mediocre vet was in fromt of him then you have the wrong damn coaches or a player with a shitty mindset. Players learn a lot from being able to pick vets brains and see the work ethic, film study, and how they take care of their bodies. I find it amazing that that’s now seen as a negative. All because the mantra that’s been preached: build a culture thru the draft. I didn’t see one of you preaching it prior to free agency though.

WTF are you talking about? This isn't a "see, I told you so" discussion. This is a discussion about whether, with the benefit of knowing how things played out after 11 games, it was a good idea not to bring in a bunch of free agents last offseason. Please point me to the posts where I made the arguments you mention.

I was simply making the point that, looking back with the benefit of hindsight, pursuing the aggressive free agency course that you and others (Omaha) have advocated could have resulted in a much different roster makeup than we presently have. Then you wouldn't be complaining about the free agency approach, but would probably complain about the team's performance.

I used Norwell as an example. Signing him probably means that we don't pick Nelson. Great, I'm sure you say. Setting that issue aside, so then who do we pick instead? My personal guess is Roquan Smith, as the Colts were rumored to like him and, indeed, the Colts very next pick was a LB (Leonard). Smith's a good player, no question, but does that mean we don't take Leonard in the 2nd? So in this scenario it comes down to this:

1. Andrew Norwell+ Roquan Smith + 2nd Rounder
2. Quenton Nelson + Darius Leonard + $66.5 million in cap space (Norwell's contract)

What do you prefer? I much prefer the second group.

[Chaka]

I am not going to name guys I wanted at this point. I don’t remember. And it doesn’t matter. It’s not my job. I don’t have all the information Ballard does.

And by the way, this is a cop out

[Chaka]

Except Ballard DIDN'T "avoid" big name players in FA. He just wouldn't pay them what they wanted, so they went elsewhere. This was not a rigid plan. He pursued multiple FAs (as many here have said previously in their defense of Ballard), but wasn't willing to pay top dollar.


Fair point, but not relevant to this particular discussion. Regardless of whether he did or did not pursue these players, the question is whether - knowing what we know now - was it better that he didn't?

[FatDT]

Fair point, but not relevant to this particular discussion. Regardless of whether he did or did not pursue these players, the question is whether - knowing what we know now - was it better that he didn't?

It’s absolutely a relevant response to those that pretend it was the team’s plan all along, in order to get the young players experience and establish a culture.

[Pez]

It’s absolutely a relevant response to those that pretend it was the team’s plan all along, in order to get the young players experience and establish a culture.

Ballard said this in March:


Financial discipline in this league you don’t see it in this league like you used to. I think it’s a good thing to have. Because what happens is these guys are re-tooling the roster every two years. You are signing all these free agents and then two years from now, you are seeing them all get cut and then they are back on the street again. We have to get some roster continuity with 10-to-12 players that are going to be Colts for a long time. Then you feel better about dipping into free agency and getting a guy. Not just good players, they need to be able to influence the locker room with their character. A culture needs to be built. A coach can do so much, but the players in that locker room build the culture that you want, with their work ethic, with the standards that they set. We have to get more players like that in our locker room.



I'm not sure anyone is pretending that this was his plan all along.

[Racehorse]

Is anyone up for making a run at Le'veon Bell next off season? Good runner, great pass blocker and catcher. Had a rep for being good in locker room. Hard nose player that seems to fit in what we are trying to build around here. Would improve running and passing game. We keep our draft picks. Cost us a ton of money but then what are we saving it for if not an elite difference maker in his prime? For me, this is the kind of guy you throw money at.

He seems to be hinting that he wants to come play in this offense, so I am warming to the idea of him coming here. However, it could be that he is enticing the team with the best chance of success who just also happens to be able to pay him an outrageous sum of money. I think he could be a missing piece for a SB team, but only if we get two or three defensive studs this off-season to go with him.

[FatDT]

Ballard said this in March:




I'm not sure anyone is pretending that this was his plan all along.

Then why has Ballard pursued top-end free agents at all?

[omahacolt]

So you're "pretty sure" that most people were expecting the colts to be above .500 at this point? Really? Because I distinctly recall a lot more dire predictions, particularly when the Colts didn't sign the big name free agents that they were rumored to be interested in. I also recall several people, yourself included, openly complaining about Ballard's draft picks and the terrible roster he had assembled. Now you want to rewrite history to suggest that you expected this all along. Not so.

And I don't accept your premise that the Manning-led Colts failed to win more than one Super Bowl because they weren't spending in free agency. Please back up that statement with some facts because, honestly, your posts are pretty light on them. Talent was never the problem with those Colts - we had plenty back then. We won the division nearly every year, and set plenty of offensive records. But we lost a lot of playoff games we should have won, whether due to coaching, player performance or just plain bad luck. And before your Patriots envy gets out of control, remember who you're speaking about - they're convicted cheaters, so please don't cite to them as an example of model organization.

The idea that you go "all in" on free agency every year is short-sighted and limiting. This isn't FanDuel - you can have a long term plan. For the umpteenth time, I'll repeat again that the unused cap space this year is NOT LOST - it will still be there next year, and the next. The idea is to get the most out of your resources. Ballard's plan, as he has expressed it himself, is to let the team create a culture organically before adding big personalities/paychecks - particularly on defense. This plan is working. Not only are we outperforming this year, but we will have a built-in competitive advantage going forward for then next several years by virtue of our increased cap space.

But yet you endlessly complain about their failure to spend THIS year, and the Colts failure to sign these theoretical "good" players who would have improved the Colts without disturbing the progress they have already made. It's an easy and cheap complaint, but has no substance.
Check out the prediction thread. People thought this team would be 7-10 win range. Exactly where we will end up. So no, this isn’t surprising to anyone. And let’s stop pretending this is a great roster. It isn’t. Look at the teams we are playing. They aren’t that good.

Polian has issues at the dt spot year after year he couldn’t fix through the draft. He signed his own free agents to hefty deals. He couldn’t draft well enough to put together complete teams.

You go all in to win. That doesn’t mean you can’t also plan for the future. I am not calling for a max spend every year. Guys like Mitchell and Inman are a perfect example of guys I am talking about. They vastly improved our depth at least. Both should be starters. They aren’t impeding anyone’s progress.

[omahacolt]

And by the way, this is a cop out

I don’t care. Ballard should know what vets are better than Arthur Maulet and fit the locker room.

[Luck4Reich]

Stop saying this was Ballards plan. He was hesitant to pull trigger on Free agents because he didn't know what Luck was going to do.

When you have the great QB you are never rebuilding and always reloading because you cant afford to waste their years.

[Luck4Reich]

I don’t care. Ballard should know what vets are better than Arthur Maulet and fit the locker room.

Exactly! This is what he and his staff get paid to do.

[Racehorse]

I don’t care. Ballard should know what vets are better than Arthur Maulet and fit the locker room.

I don't pay much attention to it, but who was available that you would have suggested over Maulet? I know he is terrible, but I am looking for someone who fits the mold of Mitchell and Inman, guys who are on the street now that could come in and contribute. Heck, I would accept a name of a guy who was unsigned going into training camp.

[omahacolt]

I don't pay much attention to it, but who was available that you would have suggested over Maulet? I know he is terrible, but I am looking for someone who fits the mold of Mitchell and Inman, guys who are on the street now that could come in and contribute. Heck, I would accept a name of a guy who was unsigned going into training camp.

Breeland was a guy they kicked the tires on. I think he is a starter for the packers.

[sherck]

Colts lead the league in snaps by 1st and 2nd year players at 42% (next is 39% in SF)

Where did you find that stat?


Walk Worthy,

[Pez]

Then why has Ballard pursued top-end free agents at all?

I don't think he's outright against free agents, obviously, he just takes a very measured approach. From the quote:

"...Then you feel better about dipping into free agency and getting a guy. Not just good players, they need to be able to influence the locker room with their character...."

Bell sits out a season and leaves his team hanging. Over money. Then makes a comment on Twitter that is essentially, "Just imagine [how good the Colts would be If I was on the team]"

Right or wrong, how do you think Bell would "influence the locker room with his character?" Positively or negatively?

[falloutboy14]

Where did you find that stat?


Walk Worthy,
Pretty sure it's this.
https://i.redd.it/n0gdun8l5x021.jpg

[FatDT]

I don't think he's outright against free agents, obviously, he just takes a very measured approach. From the quote:

"...Then you feel better about dipping into free agency and getting a guy. Not just good players, they need to be able to influence the locker room with their character...."

Bell sits out a season and leaves his team hanging. Over money. Then makes a comment on Twitter that is essentially, "Just imagine [how good the Colts would be If I was on the team]"

Right or wrong, how do you think Bell would "influence the locker room with his character?" Positively or negatively?

I'm undecided on Bell. I don't necessarily see it as him leaving his team hanging. He didn't sign a contract and then hold out. He didn't want to sign Pittsburgh's contract offer, so he didn't. He was a top 3 RB for several seasons, and by all accounts he was a good locker room guy before all this. My problem with him would be the money and the potential for suspensions.

I also don't want this to seem like I am killing Ballard unnecessarily. I like Ballard. He's done some very good things. And I think he's been pretty humble, he's admitted mistakes and said he wants to learn from them. I don't have a big problem with Ballard. I just see some people (and it is possible I am conflating opinions I read here with things said elsewhere) wanting to encompass all outcomes and say "See, it was all according to Ballard's plan, what a genius, anyone that doubts is not a true fan, blah blah blah."

I'm not into hero worship. It's absurd. I hated it when Polian was here. I don't want that nonsense again.

[Oldcolt]

Ballard has a plan

Ballard has a plan

Ballard has a plan

[Luck4Reich]

Ballard has a plan

Ballard has a plan

Ballard has a plan

Every GM has a plan. Let's hope his doesn't end in termination. I am hopeful and like I said like some things he has done. I also hope he doesn't waste too many years of Lucks. They will eventually run out.

[VeveJones007]

Check out the prediction thread. People thought this team would be 7-10 win range. Exactly where we will end up. So no, this isn’t surprising to anyone. And let’s stop pretending this is a great roster. It isn’t. Look at the teams we are playing. They aren’t that good.

Polian has issues at the dt spot year after year he couldn’t fix through the draft. He signed his own free agents to hefty deals. He couldn’t draft well enough to put together complete teams.

You go all in to win. That doesn’t mean you can’t also plan for the future. I am not calling for a max spend every year. Guys like Mitchell and Inman are a perfect example of guys I am talking about. They vastly improved our depth at least. Both should be starters. They aren’t impeding anyone’s progress.

Okay, let's play this out, but you have to look at it as though it were July 2018. You cannot use the time since then in your argument.

In July 2018, you had these players rostered at those positions:

WR:
Hilton
Grant
Rogers
Cain
Fountain

Safety:
Hooker
Geathers
Farley

At WR, I'll acknowledge an argument that Inman might be a slight upgrade to Grant/Rogers, but I don't think that was obvious at the time. I would have been against adding Inman at the time because he would take reps away from the rookies, particularly Cain. At that point, you would be adding Inman primarily in a ST role, which he doesn't fit.

At safety, it's a similar situation. Your argument amounts to advocating that they should have cut Farley and replaced him with Mitchell.

[VeveJones007]

Every GM has a plan. Let's hope his doesn't end in termination. I am hopeful and like I said like some things he has done. I also hope he doesn't waste too many years of Lucks. They will eventually run out.

How is this year a waste? What do you think the ceiling was even if they used up all available cap space?

[Luck4Reich]

How is this year a waste? What do you think the ceiling was even if they used up all available cap space?

Please read.... I said I hope he doesn't waste too many years... I didnt say "This year is a waste"

If he makes the right moves next season great.. if not he is wasting Luck.

[omahacolt]

Okay, let's play this out, but you have to look at it as though it were July 2018. You cannot use the time since then in your argument.

In July 2018, you had these players rostered at those positions:

WR:
Hilton
Grant
Rogers
Cain
Fountain

Safety:
Hooker
Geathers
Farley

At WR, I'll acknowledge an argument that Inman might be a slight upgrade to Grant/Rogers, but I don't think that was obvious at the time. I would have been against adding Inman at the time because he would take reps away from the rookies, particularly Cain. At that point, you would be adding Inman primarily in a ST role, which he doesn't fit.

At safety, it's a similar situation. Your argument amounts to advocating that they should have cut Farley and replaced him with Mitchell.

Grant and Rogers aren’t better than Inman. And Mitchell might be the best safety on our roster.

People are paid well to know this. The point is, there were better players on the street that we could have added to make this team better. And they weren’t that pricey.

[VeveJones007]

Please read.... I said I hope he doesn't waste too many years... I didnt say "This year is a waste"

If he makes the right moves next season great.. if not he is wasting Luck.

If he doesn't make the right moves next year, will Ballard have wasted "years" of Luck?

[Luck4Reich]

If he doesn't make the right moves next year, will Ballard have wasted "years" of Luck?

Technically 3 years of Luck gone at that point. 3 years to build something around him so yes!

[Oldcolt]

As a fan I’m really enjoying this year so to me it’s not a waste. Plus it’s great that we get to actually have meaningful discussion about our roster, something we never did last year. It’s a hell of a lot more fun than waiting for the freakin draft

[VeveJones007]

Grant and Rogers aren’t better than Inman. And Mitchell might be the best safety on our roster.

People are paid well to know this. The point is, there were better players on the street that we could have added to make this team better. And they weren’t that pricey.

And I still say it doesn't matter. Inman's and Mitchell's aren't making the Colts a Super Bowl contender this year.

Honestly, what is the goal you're working against with all of these critiques?

[VeveJones007]

Technically 3 years of Luck gone at that point. 3 years to build something around him so yes!

Thus, you are saying that 2018 is a waste.

[Racehorse]

I'm undecided on Bell. I don't necessarily see it as him leaving his team hanging. He didn't sign a contract and then hold out. He didn't want to sign Pittsburgh's contract offer, so he didn't. He was a top 3 RB for several seasons, and by all accounts he was a good locker room guy before all this. My problem with him would be the money and the potential for suspensions.

I also don't want this to seem like I am killing Ballard unnecessarily. I like Ballard. He's done some very good things. And I think he's been pretty humble, he's admitted mistakes and said he wants to learn from them. I don't have a big problem with Ballard. I just see some people (and it is possible I am conflating opinions I read here with things said elsewhere) wanting to encompass all outcomes and say "See, it was all according to Ballard's plan, what a genius, anyone that doubts is not a true fan, blah blah blah."

I'm not into hero worship. It's absurd. I hated it when Polian was here. I don't want that nonsense again.
So, how do you feel about the hero worship of, say, a Mike Doss? :D

[Luck4Reich]

So, how do you feel about the hero worship of, say, a Mike Doss? :D

If we had Mike Doss You might as well go ahead and hand the Colts Superbowl rings. Just ask Marcus Pollard, he would agree.:D

[Chaka]

Check out the prediction thread. People thought this team would be 7-10 win range. Exactly where we will end up. So no, this isn’t surprising to anyone. And let’s stop pretending this is a great roster. It isn’t. Look at the teams we are playing. They aren’t that good..

Oh, ok, so “people” thought this. I just looked at the thread, and here’s a list of the predictions made:

Hoopsdoc - between 4 and 9 wins
JesusChrist – 4-6 wins
Dr. Spaceman – 8 wins
Colts and Orioles – 11 wins
Sherck – 9 wins
Indystu2 – 6 wins
Dewey 5 – 3-5 wins
FatDT – 7 wins

Averaging barely over 7 wins, even including C&O’s 11-win prediction which was ridiculed by several at the time. No prediction by you in that thread, of course, though I did come across this little nugget you wrote at about the same time – “in the 2nd year of being the gm, this team has very little talent. it doesn't look good for ballard right now.”

I’m sure I can find lots more if I look, because you’ve very pessimistic about the Colts under Ballard – a far cry from your suggestion now that you knew all along that we’d perform this well.

Polian has issues at the dt spot year after year he couldn’t fix through the draft. He signed his own free agents to hefty deals. He couldn’t draft well enough to put together complete teams.

Not a complete team? No team is perfect, but the Colts won 14 in a row in 2009 and were typically one of the top seeds going into the playoffs during the Manning years. And comparing the current approach to Polian’s approach is ludicrous – Polian signed tons of free agents. Even at DT, off the top of my head he signed/traded for Booger McFarland and Corey Simon. Simon, if I’m not mistaken, had even been designated as a franchise or transitional free agent. Not to mention the fact that it appears we are currently drafting well.

You go all in to win. That doesn’t mean you can’t also plan for the future. I am not calling for a max spend every year. Guys like Mitchell and Inman are a perfect example of guys I am talking about. They vastly improved our depth at least. Both should be starters. They aren’t impeding anyone’s progress.

Nobody cares what you are “calling for” - particularly since you believe Ballard has so much more info than you and therefore can make more informed decisions. And as to Mitchell and Inman, we signed them so what are you complaining about? You should be singing the Colts praises.

[Chaka]

If he doesn't make the right moves next year, will Ballard have wasted "years" of Luck?

Don't bother arguing with this guy. We're on the cusp of a playoff berth, riding a five game win streak, but yet we're wasting Luck. Ok, whatever.

[Chaka]

Grant and Rogers aren’t better than Inman. And Mitchell might be the best safety on our roster.

People are paid well to know this. The point is, there were better players on the street that we could have added to make this team better. And they weren’t that pricey.

But wait, doesn't Ballard know more than you? He has more info that you, remember, so how do you suddenly feel qualified to question his decision making?

[Luck4Reich]

But wait, doesn't Ballard know more than you? He has more info that you, remember, so how do you suddenly feel qualified to question his decision making?

This same point was argued about Grigson in his first 2 years.

I guess it's wrong to question a guy until hindsight is 20/20.

[omahacolt]

But wait, doesn't Ballard know more than you? He has more info that you, remember, so how do you suddenly feel qualified to question his decision making?

Because it is a football message board. I come here to express opinions and read others. I have never pretended to know more than Ballard. Pagano maybe but that isn’t saying much.

Just because Ballard knows more doesn’t mean he is right. The dude will not be 100% on his decisions. No idea why you think everyone should be a cheerleader and suck his nuts like dam does his dad.

[omahacolt]

So, how do you feel about the hero worship of, say, a Mike Doss? :D

Mike Doss was a true football champion. Won at every level. Absolute champ

[omahacolt]

And I still say it doesn't matter. Inman's and Mitchell's aren't making the Colts a Super Bowl contender this year.

Honestly, what is the goal you're working against with all of these critiques?

I am just arguing wherever we end up this year, we could be better and that is a shame to me. Ballard had some great hits, I fear he will continue sitting on cash for years and we will be on the outside of a championship for that reason.

[Luck4Reich]

I am just arguing wherever we end up this year, we could be better and that is a shame to me. Ballard had some great hits, I fear he will continue sitting on cash for years and we will be on the outside of a championship for that reason.

See, they dont think it's ok to have an opinion. You just have to drink the koolaid no matter what

Hell I hope he proves me dead wrong.I just agree that it doesn't make sense to sit on that Cash.Meanwhile teams like the Pats,Saints and Steelers realize they just need to keep reloading with their franchise QBs.

[omahacolt]

Oh, ok, so “people” thought this. I just looked at the thread, and here’s a list of the predictions made:

Hoopsdoc - between 4 and 9 wins
JesusChrist – 4-6 wins
Dr. Spaceman – 8 wins
Colts and Orioles – 11 wins
Sherck – 9 wins
Indystu2 – 6 wins
Dewey 5 – 3-5 wins
FatDT – 7 wins

Averaging barely over 7 wins, even including C&O’s 11-win prediction which was ridiculed by several at the time. No prediction by you in that thread, of course, though I did come across this little nugget you wrote at about the same time – “in the 2nd year of being the gm, this team has very little talent. it doesn't look good for ballard right now.”

I’m sure I can find lots more if I look, because you’ve very pessimistic about the Colts under Ballard – a far cry from your suggestion now that you knew all along that we’d perform this well.



Not a complete team? No team is perfect, but the Colts won 14 in a row in 2009 and were typically one of the top seeds going into the playoffs during the Manning years. And comparing the current approach to Polian’s approach is ludicrous – Polian signed tons of free agents. Even at DT, off the top of my head he signed/traded for Booger McFarland and Corey Simon. Simon, if I’m not mistaken, had even been designated as a franchise or transitional free agent. Not to mention the fact that it appears we are currently drafting well.



Nobody cares what you are “calling for” - particularly since you believe Ballard has so much more info than you and therefore can make more informed decisions. And as to Mitchell and Inman, we signed them so what are you complaining about? You should be singing the Colts praises.

We are one game over 500. The way you post it sounds like we are undefeated and not playing some bad football at times. I am pretty sure I predicted that if luck is healthy we would be at 7 to 9 wins. I never bought into this division being good. And this team does lack talent. Our all world QB is masking some talent deficiencies

Polian signed tons of free agents? The fuck he did

I am giving him props for Mitchell and Inman. Should have had them earlier. With some other dudes

[omahacolt]

See, they dont think it's ok to have an opinion. You just have to drink the koolaid no matter what

Hell I hope he proves me dead wrong.I just agree that it doesn't make sense to sit on that Cash.Meanwhile teams like the Pats,Saints and Steelers realize they just need to keep reloading with their franchise QBs.

And spending the cash doesn’t mean you don’t get to draft young guys. You can do both

[Luck4Reich]

We are one game over 500. The way you post it sounds like we are undefeated and not playing some bad football at times. I am pretty sure I predicted that if luck is healthy we would be at 7 to 9 wins. I never bought into this division being good. And this team does lack talent. Our all world QB is masking some talent deficiencies

Polian signed tons of free agents? The fuck he did

I am giving him props for Mitchell and Inman. Should have had them earlier. With some other dudes

1 game over .500 playing one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. Have the Colts beat one team that will make the playoffs?

[southside asshole]

This same point was argued about Grigson in his first 2 years.

I guess it's wrong to question a guy until hindsight is 20/20.

Don't think I'm coming at you with this - it was just your comment that inspired me to post one.

An opinion on Ballard doesn't have to be binary. It's not either all good or all bad. I would remind people that just about everyone else's opinion on this is probably as nuanced as their own.

When people criticize Ballard for something specific, they're not saying he's a failure of a GM and in over is head.

When people defend Ballard's decisions, they're not saying he's an infallible genius with a magic binder.

Everybody on this board (fuck, everybody everywhere) always assumes that if someone disagrees with you on one little point, that their entire perspective is clear 100% over on the other side of whatever it is. That's almost never true.

My own opinion of Ballard is that, while he's basically a rookie GM and is still prone to certain mistakes, overall I respect and agree with what appears to be his philosophy: play the long game, build your team through the draft and supplement the roster with low-risk free agents that are either solid vets or have a good ratio of upside relative to their cost.

Moreover, he appears to also have a good, collaborative relationship with Reich on which players fit the schemes and doesn't seem to try to interfere with the depth chart. Basically an anti-Grigson. This is all good.

My primary criticism of him at this point, aside from a few totally predictable and also practically inevitable draft misses, is that he appears to be a bit of a cap hoarder. Whether it's because he's being protective of the locker room atmosphere and team culture, or if he's adamant about having the cap space to resign talent, or he's just so risk-averse that he's afraid to spend any money and repeat a T-Rich situation remains to be seen.

[Oldcolt]

Don't think I'm coming at you with this - it was just your comment that inspired me to post one.

An opinion on Ballard doesn't have to be binary. It's not either all good or all bad. I would remind people that just about everyone else's opinion on this is probably as nuanced as their own.

When people criticize Ballard for something specific, they're not saying he's a failure of a GM and in over is head.

When people defend Ballard's decisions, they're not saying he's an infallible genius with a magic binder.

Everybody on this board (fuck, everybody everywhere) always assumes that if someone disagrees with you on one little point, that their entire perspective is clear 100% over on the other side of whatever it is. That's almost never true.

My own opinion of Ballard is that, while he's basically a rookie GM and is still prone to certain mistakes, overall I respect and agree with what appears to be his philosophy: play the long game, build your team through the draft and supplement the roster with low-risk free agents that are either solid vets or have a good ratio of upside relative to their cost.

Moreover, he appears to also have a good, collaborative relationship with Reich on which players fit the schemes and doesn't seem to try to interfere with the depth chart. Basically an anti-Grigson. This is all good.

My primary criticism of him at this point, aside from a few totally predictable and also practically inevitable draft misses, is that he appears to be a bit of a cap hoarder. Whether it's because he's being protective of the locker room atmosphere and team culture, or if he's adamant about having the cap space to resign talent, or he's just so risk-averse that he's afraid to spend any money and repeat a T-Rich situation remains to be seen.

Great post. Hopefully he is hoarding all that cap space for a reason other than saving money (and that does not seem to be something Irsay is concerned about).

[rcubed]

Where did you find that stat?


Walk Worthy,

Pretty sure it's this.
https://i.redd.it/n0gdun8l5x021.jpg


yes thats it. that pic was from a twitter account that I saw on B/R

[Pez]

1 game over .500 playing one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. Have the Colts beat one team that will make the playoffs?

The Redskins *might* make it

[Oldcolt]

1 game over .500 playing one of the easiest schedules in the NFL. Have the Colts beat one team that will make the playoffs?

They beat themselves a couple of times

[Colt Classic]

And by the way, this is a cop out

I provided named examples but was ignored, unless Veve is your personal assistant. So the point of even complying with the whole exercise was?

[Oldcolt]

I provided named examples but was ignored, unless Veve is your personal assistant. So the point of even complying with the whole exercise was?

Indeed you did. And I think you are correct. If we had signed wide receivers who did not have the dropsies we would have a better record. Brown/White seem like they would have been better than who we got. I'll ding Ballard for that. But it is a small ding as I am not sure anyone would have guessed that those guys would have dropped so many passes. On that subject does anyone have any idea why they seemed to have stopped doing that? Seems like since Inman got here its really improved

[FatDT]

On that subject does anyone have any idea why they seemed to have stopped doing that? Seems like since Inman got here its really improved

Doyle came back, and all the WRs after Hilton got pushed down the depth chart by Inman. And I'm sure they worked on it in practice.

[Chaka]

This same point was argued about Grigson in his first 2 years.

I guess it's wrong to question a guy until hindsight is 20/20.

Not sure what you mean here. You’ve got to read my post in context. I was making the point, and perhaps not as clearly as I could have, that Omaha was being hypocritical. When I earlier challenged him to set forth how he would have done things differently than Ballard, he refused and said it wasn’t his job and he didn’t have access to the same info that Ballard does. Yet only a few posts later, he’s back to railing against Ballard’s decisions.

He can’t have it both ways - if he’s going to fall back on the “Ballard’s got more info than me so you can’t expect me to have better ideas” defense, then in my mind you have to live with that position and it’s pretty hypocritical to then start questioning Ballard’s decisions a few posts later.

[Chaka]

Because it is a football message board. I come here to express opinions and read others. I have never pretended to know more than Ballard. Pagano maybe but that isn’t saying much.

Just because Ballard knows more doesn’t mean he is right. The dude will not be 100% on his decisions. No idea why you think everyone should be a cheerleader and suck his nuts like dam does his dad.

You are a funny guy, I’ll give you that. Nobody said that Ballard is infallible, and just because I take a position different than yours doesn’t mean I endorse everything he does. However, I do like his management style, and I’ve been pretty consistent from the beginning about that. That doesn’t mean, as RM1369 and others seems to think, that I advocated that we avoid signing any big name free agents this last offseason. I didn’t. Indeed, as FatDT correctly pointed out, Ballard himself didn’t have this mindset, and he actually tried to sign a few last off season.

Nevertheless, while Ballard’s plan might not have been to completely avoid free agency, his philosophy (or at least how I interpret it) makes it unlikely that we will ever – except in perhaps very rare instances – be seriously in the running for the top free agents. I just think there will almost always be another team willing to pay more than Ballard will. The truth is that most top-end free agents are vastly overpaid for what they produce. Ballard’s value-oriented approach will lead us to signing a lot of mid-level free agents like Ebron, Grant, etc. He’s betting on himself to be able to draft star players and to find diamonds in the rough in free agency.

Right now, all of this means there’s a lot of cap space because there’s nobody to spend it on. But if Ballard’s good at the talent evaluation part of his job, it won’t be long before we’ll be spending lots of money keeping our own players from hitting free agency. Either way, the cap money will be spent – it’s only a question of when and on whom.

[Pez]

This same point was argued about Grigson in his first 2 years.

I guess it's wrong to question a guy until hindsight is 20/20.

I dont really agree 100% with your second point, but it made me think about my thoughts on Grigson. Grigson got a lot of benefit of the doubt in his first two years. The start of the Luck era, he drafted Hilton, Pags stepped aside for a season to beat cancer, and we made the playoffs under Arians.

Even the media thought the Richardson trade was a good idea. It's easy to put blinders on when you make the playoffs three consecutive years, advancing further each year. The 2014 colts had about as much business being in the AFC championship as the 1995 colts did.

The check engine light was on, and a good deal of fans put black tape over it.

The wheels didn't really fall off all the way until the 45-7 deflategate game when it became clear that he'd really decimated the roster. 8-8, 8-8 (luck injury), then 4-12...

[omahacolt]

Not sure what you mean here. You’ve got to read my post in context. I was making the point, and perhaps not as clearly as I could have, that Omaha was being hypocritical. When I earlier challenged him to set forth how he would have done things differently than Ballard, he refused and said it wasn’t his job and he didn’t have access to the same info that Ballard does. Yet only a few posts later, he’s back to railing against Ballard’s decisions.

He can’t have it both ways - if he’s going to fall back on the “Ballard’s got more info than me so you can’t expect me to have better ideas” defense, then in my mind you have to live with that position and it’s pretty hypocritical to then start questioning Ballard’s decisions a few posts later.

Sure I can have it both ways. I can also use hindsight like a motherfucker. And I have no problem being hypocritical

[Chaka]

Sure I can have it both ways. I can also use hindsight like a motherfucker. And I have no problem being hypocritical

Well at least we agree on something then.

[Luck4Reich]

You are a funny guy, I’ll give you that. Nobody said that Ballard is infallible, and just because I take a position different than yours doesn’t mean I endorse everything he does. However, I do like his management style, and I’ve been pretty consistent from the beginning about that. That doesn’t mean, as RM1369 and others seems to think, that I advocated that we avoid signing any big name free agents this last offseason. I didn’t. Indeed, as FatDT correctly pointed out, Ballard himself didn’t have this mindset, and he actually tried to sign a few last off season.

Nevertheless, while Ballard’s plan might not have been to completely avoid free agency, his philosophy (or at least how I interpret it) makes it unlikely that we will ever – except in perhaps very rare instances – be seriously in the running for the top free agents. I just think there will almost always be another team willing to pay more than Ballard will. The truth is that most top-end free agents are vastly overpaid for what they produce. Ballard’s value-oriented approach will lead us to signing a lot of mid-level free agents like Ebron, Grant, etc. He’s betting on himself to be able to draft star players and to find diamonds in the rough in free agency.

Right now, all of this means there’s a lot of cap space because there’s nobody to spend it on. But if Ballard’s good at the talent evaluation part of his job, it won’t be long before we’ll be spending lots of money keeping our own players from hitting free agency. Either way, the cap money will be spent – it’s only a question of when and on whom.

That's why I like Omaha, he doesn't give a shit like me. He pretty much says what comes to mind and doesn't stress over who doesn't agree.

If we all agreed on everything here it would really suck more sick than Tom Brady and maybe even more than Dam. Stop getting your panties in a bunch because we haven't chose to fall before Ballards feet and claim him as the Amazing GM you do.

[Dam8610]

That's why I like Omaha, he doesn't give a shit like me. He pretty much says what comes to mind and doesn't stress over who doesn't agree.

If we all agreed on everything here it would really suck more sick than Tom Brady and maybe even more than Dam. Stop getting your panties in a bunch because we haven't chose to fall before Ballards feet and claim him as the Amazing GM you do.

Nothing screams insecurity like projecting onto others.

[Luck4Reich]

Nothing screams insecurity like projecting onto others.

I apologize Dam, my insecurities got the best of me.

[JAFF]

Sure I can have it both ways. I can also use hindsight like a motherfucker. And I have no problem being hypocritical

Finally I understand. You are a five year old.

[YDFL Commish]

Sure I can have it both ways. I can also use hindsight like a motherfucker. And I have no problem being hypocritical

Actually it sounds like you have become Donald Trump.

[omahacolt]

Actually it sounds like you have become Donald Trump.

That is cold brother

[JAFF]

Actually it sounds like you have become Donald Trump.


Exactly, a five year old