Le’Veon Bell Thoughts ?

[smitty46953]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Steelers now listening to trade offers for RB Le’Veon Bell, league sources tell ESPN.

:cool:

[YDFL Commish]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter

Steelers now listening to trade offers for RB Le’Veon Bell, league sources tell ESPN.

:cool:

NO means NO!

[Butter]

He wants more than I want to pay an RB

[JAFF]

You validate his behavior, and he will expect his new team to renegotiate everytime he gets the urge

[Coltsalr]

He wants more than I want to pay an RB

Generally agree but I’m not sure who devoting that much cap room to would really block us from keeping.

[Dam8610]

If they'll take a 2, do it. Otherwise, plenty of money to sign him in the offseason.

[omahacolt]

Absolutely not.

[Maniac]

Is he going to make this team a playoff team?

[Coltsalr]

@FieldYates
Le’Veon Bell is due $11.98M for the rest of this season. As things currently stand: these teams have $12M+ in cap space: Browns, Colts, Texans, Titans, Cowboys, 49ers, Jets and Jaguars.

[rm1369]

Between the draft pick and salary demands the cost is way to high even if the Colts could theoretically easily afford the salary. I’m perfectly content with the RB committee approach and the personnel they have there. RB should be way low on priorities for this team.

[FatDT]

Probably too old, too expensive (picks + contract), and too much of an individual for Ballard.

[CanuckColt]

No thanks. Pass.

[JAFF]

Probably too old, too expensive (picks + contract), and too much of an individual for Ballard.

He was the guy secretly recording and broacasting the Steelers headcoach in the locker room. He more trouble and at the backend of his career

[GoBigBlue88]

Only reason I'm intrigued is that he is basically a better WR than Chester Rogers. I think an offense where one of Bell/Hines is on the field at all times is a much better offense than what Colts have now.

[indycolts2]

He was the guy secretly recording and broacasting the Steelers headcoach in the locker room. He more trouble and at the backend of his career

Thought that was Antonio Brown?

[Racehorse]

Not interested at all

[Butter]

Generally agree but I’m not sure who devoting that much cap room to would really block us from keeping.

Cap room moves forward.

[Chromeburn]

I would have been more in favor of the Mack trade. I think defensive players transition to new teams better than offensive players.

Bell is approaching 30 and he wants unprecedented money. Not as a RB but as a RB and WR combined. You pay that it takes away from other positions.

[Butter]

I would have been more in favor of the Mack trade. I think defensive players transition to new teams better than offensive players.

Bell is approaching 30 and he wants unprecedented money. Not as a RB but as a RB and WR combined. You pay that it takes away from other positions.

I completely agree though I think it may be too soon for that sort of move, but yes he is the kind of player you blow that cap space on.

[Pez]

It would be a tactical and not strategic move. He would be a near term distraction that would be outside the overall vision for this team.

Add to that how it would change the game plan. He was so successful in Pittsburgh because they had 5 years to work his talent into their game plan. FFS, he caught 85 passes last year.

He's only 26, but has missed time in 4 of his 5 seasons.

Grigson would have already inked the deal.

[sherck]

So, looking into this a bit more:

1) Current top RB contract in NFL is Todd Gurley signed in 2018 for $57.500m over 4 years averaging $14.375m per season with $21.950m guaranteed.

So, since Bell wants to be paid top dollar, figure $14.500m or $15.000m per season for the price. Colts have $48m free in 2018, $124m free in 2019 (counting 2018 unused rollover) and $108m free in 2020.

The only salary cap "loss" is opportunity cost on signing Bell instead of some other high priced free agent down the road. Ballard has plenty of cap flexibility to decide what to do with it over the next couple of years.

We don't have a ton of internal free agents that are going to demand top dollar when resigned.

In 2019, top free agents are: Grant, Hunt, Slausson, Vinatieri (cheap), Woods, Desir, Turbin, Geathers, and Good. Grant, Hunt and Geathers might need large contracts if they continue to perform but no one else on the list will be paid anywhere near top dollar. They will have a lot to spend on new free agents.


2) Draft pick compensation. Colts have 5 picks in the top two rounders of the 2019 and 2020 drafts; 2 first round and 3 second round (NYJ 2nd round in 2019).

Rumor has it that PIT wants two first round pick like the Mack trade. Considering how "under valued" the RB position is when compared to a pass rusher, I cannot imagine that they think they will actually get that.

Considering that I think it is likely that one of those five draft picks over the next two years will be spent on RB (most likely a 2nd rounder, IMO), is spending a second draft pick on Bell worth it to get a proven performer? Offer two second round picks and wait until PIT realizes that no one is going to offer more.

3. Peformance.

5 years in league, played in 62 of 80 possible games.

4.3 yard per carry average on 1,229 rush attempts averaging 19.8 attempts per game and 86.1 yards per game.

8.5 yard per reception average on 312 receitpions averaging 5.0 receptions per game and 42.9 yards per game.

In my book, for those that watched Edge is first two years in the league before his injury, Bell is a very small step below him as a rusher and one small step above him as a receiver. He can do all phases of the game well.

4. Age. Bell was born 18 Feb 1992 and is 26 in 2018. 27 in 2019, 28 in 2020, 29 in 2021, 30 in 2022. Not "too" old yet but not a spring chicken in football years.

5. Attitude. No idea. Too many press stories and rumors floating around to decide if he is a cancer or someone who has not been treated well.


I am still on the "too expensive" road on Bell as I too undervalue the RB position. However, having a Bell type RB on the field this season would mean we are probably 3-0 rather than 1-2 in the games we have played thus far.

Walk Worthy,

[Butter]

We aren't going to the SB even with him. If Ballard really wants him wait for free agency.

[FatDT]

Bell is a proven great RB. But as a team I don't think we are where we need to be yet to be spending picks and big dollars on a player like him.

[smitty46953]

We aren't going to the SB even with him. If Ballard really wants him wait for free agency.

I agree test him in free agency :cool:

[Chromeburn]

I think it is more than 15. He wants to be the top RB AND WR money added on. So 2-3 million in addition. Like a top number 2 WR.

[Oldcolt]

If you can get him for two number two's I'd say do it. Great players, I don't care what position they play, are hard to come by and extremely valuable. They make plays that turn games around. The argument that he will not make us a Super Bowl team is not, in my opinion, very strong. First off maybe he will, nobody knows for sure. Secondly that is an incredibly high standard to meet in order to bring someone in. There can be little doubt that he would improve our team and with our cap situation we should be able to pay him without sacrificing our financial future or flexibility. Unless he isn't the cultural fit Ballard wants, then l'd like to see us get him

[FatDT]

If you can get him for two number two's I'd say do it. Great players, I don't care what position they play, are hard to come by and extremely valuable. They make plays that turn games around. The argument that he will not make us a Super Bowl team is not, in my opinion, very strong. First off maybe he will, nobody knows for sure. Secondly that is an incredibly high standard to meet in order to bring someone in. There can be little doubt that he would improve our team and with our cap situation we should be able to pay him without sacrificing our financial future or flexibility. Unless he isn't the cultural fit Ballard wants, then l'd like to see us get him

The argument has as much to do with the position as it does the player himself. Probably moreso.

If there were a 26 year old All Pro left tackle available for trade, sure, I'd be interested. Because of what a tackle brings to an offense. Every play he adds the value of keeping Luck clean and making it a little easier for the other OL to do their job of also keeping Luck clean.

Meanwhile a RB, even a great RB like Bell, is capped in terms of how much he can help a team. And with such a short shelf life, and with how many touches he's gotten during his time in Pittsburgh, it doesn't make sense to bring in that type of weapon at this stage of the team build.

We have a QB working his way back from injury, an offense still in the early stages of installation, a young and unproven roster coached and GM'd by a bunch of new guys.

If we're not going to spend what it takes to get a young All Pro guard in the offseason (no draft picks involved there) then I don't see the justification for trading for and then also paying Bell.

[Chaka]

The argument has as much to do with the position as it does the player himself. Probably moreso.

If there were a 26 year old All Pro left tackle available for trade, sure, I'd be interested. Because of what a tackle brings to an offense. Every play he adds the value of keeping Luck clean and making it a little easier for the other OL to do their job of also keeping Luck clean.

Meanwhile a RB, even a great RB like Bell, is capped in terms of how much he can help a team. And with such a short shelf life, and with how many touches he's gotten during his time in Pittsburgh, it doesn't make sense to bring in that type of weapon at this stage of the team build.

We have a QB working his way back from injury, an offense still in the early stages of installation, a young and unproven roster coached and GM'd by a bunch of new guys.

If we're not going to spend what it takes to get a young All Pro guard in the offseason (no draft picks involved there) then I don't see the justification for trading for and then also paying Bell.

I've got to agree with this. I don't see the Colts looking to add Bell when they are still trying to create a homegrown team identity. Plus, judging from the holdout, he's prone to becoming disgruntled, and that might not be the right ingredient to add to a young and impressionable Colts team at this point.

[Chromeburn]

The argument has as much to do with the position as it does the player himself. Probably moreso.

If there were a 26 year old All Pro left tackle available for trade, sure, I'd be interested. Because of what a tackle brings to an offense. Every play he adds the value of keeping Luck clean and making it a little easier for the other OL to do their job of also keeping Luck clean.

Meanwhile a RB, even a great RB like Bell, is capped in terms of how much he can help a team. And with such a short shelf life, and with how many touches he's gotten during his time in Pittsburgh, it doesn't make sense to bring in that type of weapon at this stage of the team build.

We have a QB working his way back from injury, an offense still in the early stages of installation, a young and unproven roster coached and GM'd by a bunch of new guys.

If we're not going to spend what it takes to get a young All Pro guard in the offseason (no draft picks involved there) then I don't see the justification for trading for and then also paying Bell.

I think we have our future RG in Braden Smith. The question is how high will our draft pick be in the next draft and what direction we go. If we have a shot at one of the LT’s I think we take it. We should add some complimentary players through FA.

[Oldcolt]

The argument has as much to do with the position as it does the player himself. Probably moreso.

If there were a 26 year old All Pro left tackle available for trade, sure, I'd be interested. Because of what a tackle brings to an offense. Every play he adds the value of keeping Luck clean and making it a little easier for the other OL to do their job of also keeping Luck clean.

Meanwhile a RB, even a great RB like Bell, is capped in terms of how much he can help a team. And with such a short shelf life, and with how many touches he's gotten during his time in Pittsburgh, it doesn't make sense to bring in that type of weapon at this stage of the team build.

We have a QB working his way back from injury, an offense still in the early stages of installation, a young and unproven roster coached and GM'd by a bunch of new guys.

If we're not going to spend what it takes to get a young All Pro guard in the offseason (no draft picks involved there) then I don't see the justification for trading for and then also paying Bell.

I agree that's a strong argument. For me what would make it worth while is if we could get him for a reasonable price, draft wise. With the surplus picks Ballard has picked up, spending a two for a few years of Bell at a high level would be worth it to me. The kicker for me is we are sitting on this crapload of cap space, so if Bell has integrity (big if I know-the front office gets paid to make those decisions)we should be able to frontload a contract and keep our long term financial flexibility. It's fun playing with this but in reality, none of this will happen. He's not going to be a Colt in all likelihood.

[Butter]

I think we have our future RG in Braden Smith. The question is how high will our draft pick be in the next draft and what direction we go. If we have a shot at one of the LT’s I think we take it. We should add some complimentary players through FA.

I hope so, I would like to see a Tackle taken fairly high next year to hopefully start at RT and groom him to play LT when AC is done.

[smitty46953]

New York Daily News reports the Jets have "reached out" to the Steelers about acquiring holdout unsigned franchise player Le'Veon Bell.

Per reporter Manish Mehta, the Jets have "not made a concrete offer," but they believe the Steelers are "serious" about trading their running back. ESPN's Adam Schefter first reported Bell was available on Sunday. The Jets are the first team to be linked.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell

:cool:

[Chromeburn]

New York Daily News reports the Jets have "reached out" to the Steelers about acquiring holdout unsigned franchise player Le'Veon Bell.

Per reporter Manish Mehta, the Jets have "not made a concrete offer," but they believe the Steelers are "serious" about trading their running back. ESPN's Adam Schefter first reported Bell was available on Sunday. The Jets are the first team to be linked.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8390/leveon-bell

:cool:

Funny seeing the Steelers implode after all the team first yada yada BS coming out of there for years.

[DragonTails]

Talk is only of a 2 or a 3.

[rm1369]

Talk is only of a 2 or a 3.

I believe Steelers would likely get a 3 for just letting him walk. Admittedly at the end of the round though. Unfortunately I don’t believe a team that trades for him now can sign him long term this year because of the franchise tag. And he’s indicated he intends to protect himself for free agency. So someone would have to give up a 2 or 3 with no gaurentee of having him long term. And for the limited number of games you get him he may not be fully committed to winning. To me he only makes sense for a team that thinks he can put them over the top in the playoffs this year. That’s not the Colts IMO.

[Racehorse]

I believe Steelers would likely get a 3 for just letting him walk. Admittedly at the end of the round though. Unfortunately I don’t believe a team that trades for him now can sign him long term this year because of the franchise tag. And he’s indicated he intends to protect himself for free agency. So someone would have to give up a 2 or 3 with no gaurentee of having him long term. And for the limited number of games you get him he may not be fully committed to winning. To me he only makes sense for a team that thinks he can put them over the top in the playoffs this year. That’s not the Colts IMO.

Does the league allow teams to negotiate prior to a trade? Sign and trade sort of thing?

[sherck]

Does the league allow teams to negotiate prior to a trade? Sign and trade sort of thing?Yes.

He has not signed his tag. A team could negotiate a new contract prior to the trade and he would never fall under the tag.

A 3rd is small comp for him.

I am leaning towards yes. Risk is worth his talent.

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[omahacolt]

The dude wants like 15 mil a year to play. You don’t pay a rb that. Only a moron would want to bring this dude here for what he wants

[Dam8610]

The dude wants like 15 mil a year to play. You don’t pay a rb that. Only a moron would want to bring this dude here for what he wants

This team has $90 million of cap space going into next year and that money is going to have to be paid to someone, or else the players union will come for it. The Colts could make a deal that pays him an obscene amount of money for one year (and burns that cap space so the union doesn't come for it), then pays him like a league average starting RB in the rest of the years. It's not like he's 30, the 2019 season will be his age 27 season. I'd rather have a pass rusher like Mack, but a RB like Le'Veon Bell really fits this scheme well.

[Butter]

This team has $90 million of cap space going into next year and that money is going to have to be paid to someone, or else the players union will come for it. The Colts could make a deal that pays him an obscene amount of money for one year (and burns that cap space so the union doesn't come for it), then pays him like a league average starting RB in the rest of the years. It's not like he's 30, the 2019 season will be his age 27 season. I'd rather have a pass rusher like Mack, but a RB like Le'Veon Bell really fits this scheme well.

If they do you trust him to not hold out because he is not making that much now? I don't

[omahacolt]

Anyone that wants to bring bell on this team is a moron. It is that simple.

[rm1369]

Yes.

He has not signed his tag. A team could negotiate a new contract prior to the trade and he would never fall under the tag.

A 3rd is small comp for him.

I am leaning towards yes. Risk is worth his talent.

Walk Worthy,

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Sherck are you positive about this? I’m not an expert by any means but I thought the deadline for him to negotiate a new contract this season had passed. I believe whether or not he signed his tender does not matter as far as that goes. However, because he hasn’t signed his tender he technically isn’t under contract and can not currently be traded. He’ll have to sign the tender to be traded. I’ve been wrong before though.

[Indiana V2]

Anyone that wants to bring bell on this team is a moron. It is that simple.

I agree, he is a great player, but could be a selfish cancer, not worth the risk. Let the Patriots take him.

[Racehorse]

This team has $90 million of cap space going into next year and that money is going to have to be paid to someone, or else the players union will come for it. The Colts could make a deal that pays him an obscene amount of money for one year (and burns that cap space so the union doesn't come for it), then pays him like a league average starting RB in the rest of the years. It's not like he's 30, the 2019 season will be his age 27 season. I'd rather have a pass rusher like Mack, but a RB like Le'Veon Bell really fits this scheme well.

You pay it once, you have to pay it again. That alone makes it a bad idea.

[Oldcolt]

Anyone that wants to bring bell on this team is a moron. It is that simple.

That’s a little harsh. There is an argument that a multiple year all-pro running back might possibly help this offense. I don’t know the guy myself, but if he were to check out attitude wise, if you can protect the team if he does performance enhancing drugs, get him for a third and not hamstring yourself financially then I’d be that moron who thinks it’s worth a chance. We need playmakers

[rm1369]

I’ve been researching it and I stand by my statement - Bell can’t be signed to a long term contract by anyone this year. If a team trades for him they will have no guarantee they will keep him past this year. Teams had until July 16th to reach a long term contract with franchise tagged players. After that teams can’t negotiate with them until after the last game of this season. It is true that Bell didn’t sign his tender, but that means he has no contract and can’t be traded. Only players under contract can be traded. The only contract he can sign is the franchise tender. Pittsburgh could theoretically rescind the franchise tag, but he would then become a free agent.

Bell’s talent is obvious, but he makes absolutely no sense for this Colts team. If Ballard wants him then simply sign him in the off season. The only way he won’t be a free agent is if Pittsburgh tags him again which will not happen. But the Colts don’t need to spend a high draft pick for the right to rent Bell for the remainder of the season. They aren’t in a win now mode. It would be stupid. I have confidence it isn’t in Ballard’s plans to trade for him.

[Oldcolt]

If you can't sign him long term it truly makes very little sense to trade for him

[Dam8610]

If they do you trust him to not hold out because he is not making that much now? I don't

Le'Veon Bell appears to want two things: money, and a certain average annual value to his contract. If the Colts are interested in trading for him, this is an idea they could approach him with before the trade is consummated. If he's uninterested, drop out. I don't think he's worth the money he wants, but the Colts are positioned uniquely with cap space to not care about that. A creative contract allows him to satisfy his ego and get most of his money upfront and the Colts to get an all-pro caliber RB for well under market value for 3 years (I wouldn't sign him past his age 30 season).

You pay it once, you have to pay it again. That alone makes it a bad idea.

No, you don't. That's silly. Each contract negotiation is different. It would be a unique circumstance that the Colts would even be able to offer that.

I am a moron. It is that simple.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

If you can't sign him long term it truly makes very little sense to trade for him

You can sign him long term, it just has to wait until January. Trading for him does give you an exclusive negotiating window, however. That said, I wouldn't trade for him or sign him long term unless he was willing to take an extremely frontloaded deal.

[Racehorse]

No, you don't. That's silly. Each contract negotiation is different. It would be a unique circumstance that the Colts would even be able to offer that.





Do I really need to explain it to you?

[Dam8610]

Do I really need to explain it to you?

I thought you were a free market type of person? Just because the Colts do a thing once doesn't mean they would have to do it again. Sure, players could ask, but a simple "no" ends it. It's not some sort of Pandora's Box.

[Racehorse]

I thought you were a free market type of person? Just because the Colts do a thing once doesn't mean they would have to do it again. Sure, players could ask, but a simple "no" ends it. It's not some sort of Pandora's Box.

It re-sets the market for RBs. Your explanation is lunacy, as usual

[Dam8610]

It re-sets the market for RBs. Your explanation is lunacy, as usual

I would argue it doesn't, especially since on the Colts end it would be an obvious ploy to get some use out of the cap dollars that they'd otherwise just have to send to the union, but the market for RBs is going to go up anyway. The cap in the very near future will exceed $200 million. Some RB in the next few years is going to get a contract that's not gimmicky and has a $15 million AAV.

[omahacolt]

That’s a little harsh. There is an argument that a multiple year all-pro running back might possibly help this offense. I don’t know the guy myself, but if he were to check out attitude wise, if you can protect the team if he does performance enhancing drugs, get him for a third and not hamstring yourself financially then I’d be that moron who thinks it’s worth a chance. We need playmakers

Let’s see

He wants more money than any rb in history. A good deal more

We can’t negotiate a new deal this year.

He is one strike away from being suspended a year for drugs

He is a malcontent and is holding out.

It isn’t harsh at all. Nobody should want this idiot on a young team like this.

[GoBigBlue88]

Honestly any objection I have is less about his attitude and more about just waiting a season and getting him without using a draft pick in the offseason.

[Dam8610]

Honestly any objection I have is less about his attitude and more about just waiting a season and getting him without using a draft pick in the offseason.

If you don't care about the exclusive negotiating window, this is the best idea.

[rm1369]

If you don't care about the exclusive negotiating window, this is the best idea.

You would basically be giving up a 2nd for the opportunity to fully meet Bell’s ridiculous contract demands. Anything less than that and I don’t see him signing until he hits the market and see’s what his value will be. He seems to believe he will get it and has proven he’s committed to making sure he gets the opportunity. I don’t believe anyone will fully meet his demands so the Colts should have an opportunity to get him if they really want him. Personally I’m happy with the trio the Colts have and think there are plenty of better places to spend the money.

[Oldcolt]

Let’s see

He wants more money than any rb in history. A good deal more

We can’t negotiate a new deal this year.

He is one strike away from being suspended a year for drugs

He is a malcontent and is holding out.

It isn’t harsh at all. Nobody should want this idiot on a young team like this.

The fact that we can't negotiate a new deal makes me agree we should not give up a draft pick for him. The drug thing bothers me but not the malcontent crap. Nobody here knows the guy, opinions are generated by news that either the club or the players rep give. Neither is without suspicion. He has a limited time to make money and wants to maximize it. So he holds out. Never saw that coming from a professional athlete. I do know he would immediately be the best runner on the team, the best pass protecting back on the team and not only the best pass catching running back but one of the best pass catchers period on the team. He would improve the team immensely on the field. Ballard would be a fool not to look into this. Having said all of that, I come down on not giving up a draft pick for him.

[JAFF]

If you don't care about the exclusive negotiating window, this is the best idea.

This guy, in the most polite terms is a knucklehead.

And its' doubtful that will EVER change. Yeah, he can play football, when he's not neck deep in BS.

And how old is he? Investing in an old RB is like buying meat when it's 3 days past the expiration date. Oh, a knucklehead RB

[JAFF]

The fact that we can't negotiate a new deal makes me agree we should not give up a draft pick for him. The drug thing bothers me but not the malcontent crap. Nobody here knows the guy, opinions are generated by news that either the club or the players rep give. Neither is without suspicion. He has a limited time to make money and wants to maximize it. So he holds out. Never saw that coming from a professional athlete. I do know he would immediately be the best runner on the team, the best pass protecting back on the team and not only the best pass catching running back but one of the best pass catchers period on the team. He would improve the team immensely on the field. Ballard would be a fool not to look into this. Having said all of that, I come down on not giving up a draft pick for him.

There is video of him recording his coach talking to the team. He's a twitter idiot. He's a dumbass. While I understand his talent, he is the reason he misses games.

[Racehorse]

I would argue it doesn't, especially since on the Colts end it would be an obvious ploy to get some use out of the cap dollars that they'd otherwise just have to send to the union, but the market for RBs is going to go up anyway. The cap in the very near future will exceed $200 million. Some RB in the next few years is going to get a contract that's not gimmicky and has a $15 million AAV.

Of course you would

[YDFL Commish]

I like to compare this to when BP traded Marshall Faulk to the Rams.

I don't believe that Bell has Faulk type talent. Faulk was the type of RB that could transform a franchise. Bell is not that.

[GoBigBlue88]

Bell absolutely has Faulk level talent.

IMO, for the Colts, it just comes down to: what's the 2018 free agency plan? If they think the class is weak and they don't want to run into a bunch of Gosder Cherilus situations, maybe it's worth front-loading a Bell contract with a significant signing bonus on money that otherwise would just be sitting there. If they think the class has some answers (particularly at OT, WR, and long term plans for TE/RB/CB/LB/etc.), then no way in hell they should pull the trigger.

[FatDT]

FA OTs in 2019 are garbage so toss that out.

[Pez]

I like to compare this to when BP traded Marshall Faulk to the Rams.

I don't believe that Bell has Faulk type talent. Faulk was the type of RB that could transform a franchise. Bell is not that.

I respectfully disagree.... he broke 2000 yards in 2014, and nearly in 2016 and 2017. Those are roughly the same as Faulk's numbers from 1998 to 2001.

[FatDT]

Faulk was never one drug infraction away from a long suspension though.

[Pez]

Faulk was never one drug infraction away from a long suspension though.

heh... maybe that's why Bell is holding out, ala Ricky Williams in 2004.