Building the ‘18 Colts and beyond

[Swing4DaFences]

If Saquon is available at 3, I’d take him. I think he’s a generational talent that would make everything else easier on offense. I would take him over 2 solid O-linemen, because I think his talent cannot be taught, while many big solid college linemen can be developed through good NFL coaching.

If Saquon is not available, at 3 that’s actually even better. That would mean one of the marquee QB’s is on the board, and someone will give you a first rounder this year and next, along with a 2nd or 3rd this year. I would take that ransom over Bradley Chubb. I have nothing bad to say about Chubb, except that picking him straight up at 3 is probably our worst outcome in my opinion. We are switching to a 4-3, we have new coaches and a no-name defense, and I just can’t see even a very talented pass rusher making a Freeney-esque impact for several years.

Frank Reich is an offensive guy and I say you stack him with weapons first, and see if you can get a big defensive steal later in the draft. Mathis, Bethea, Bob Sanders, Cato, Thornton, Brackett- none of those guys were first round picks, but you’re not going to find Luck-like offensive talent outside of the first or 2nd rounds.

[Dam8610]

If Saquon is available at 3, I’d take him. I think he’s a generational talent that would make everything else easier on offense. I would take him over 2 solid O-linemen, because I think his talent cannot be taught, while many big solid college linemen can be developed through good NFL coaching.

If Saquon is not available, at 3 that’s actually even better. That would mean one of the marquee QB’s is on the board, and someone will give you a first rounder this year and next, along with a 2nd or 3rd this year. I would take that ransom over Bradley Chubb. I have nothing bad to say about Chubb, except that picking him straight up at 3 is probably our worst outcome in my opinion. We are switching to a 4-3, we have new coaches and a no-name defense, and I just can’t see even a very talented pass rusher making a Freeney-esque impact for several years.

Frank Reich is an offensive guy and I say you stack him with weapons first, and see if you can get a big defensive steal later in the draft. Mathis, Bethea, Bob Sanders, Cato, Thornton, Brackett- none of those guys were first round picks, but you’re not going to find Luck-like offensive talent outside of the first or 2nd rounds.

Bradley Chubb is an impact defender. If he's the worst case scenario at 3, the Colts are in pretty good shape. Saquon Barkley seems like the worst case scenario at 3 to me, but that may be because I don't believe the marginal ROI between an elite starting RB and a good RB committee is worth a high pick investment, especially not a top 5 or 10 pick. Elite pass rushers are, and Chubb fits that bill. Honestly, I'd like to see the Colts find a way to get Chubb and Marcus Davenport If possible. I think Davenport would not only be able to learn from the coaches but also Chubb, and watching Davenport play, he has a chance to be an absolute game wrecker if someone can teach him how to effectively beat OLs. His size and speed doesn't come along often (the last 6'7" 260+ DL who could run with RBs that I remember is Julius Peppers), nor does his strength and length. Putting those two on the same DL could create a new Freeney/Mathis type of dynamic pass rushing duo, and that would be a great start toward building a great defense, which is something this team has lacked for decades except for short bursts in the late 2000s. If Reich is an offensive genius, let's see him utilize what the team has along with some mid round skill position players to make a good offense and invest in the defense for a refreshing, welcome change. He's already got the best start anyone could ask for in Andrew Luck.

[sherck]

Heh...and now for the third opinion....

None of that matters if Luck is still getting hit 10+ times a game. Full stop. End of discussion.

Will a new, intelligence offensive system help with that? Sure.
Will a new OC / QB coach who are not idiots help with that? Sure.

But, in the end, our O-Linemen need to be able to hold at the point of attack making our RB by committee apporach more effective AND keep the pocket clean for Luck to make plays.

Can the Colts sign good enough guys in free agency to "fix" to O-Line problem? Yes they can. Will they? I will tell you in a month.

Grab one of Solder/Flemming at OT and then one of Norwell/Pugh/Kline/Mewhort at OG to add to the mix of Haeg and Good and may the best 3 win.

If the Colts do that, then I am fine with having the Chubb vs Barkley vs trade down debate.

But, if the Colts cannot do that, then I hope they use the #3 on the best O-Lineman they can and I don't care if he is OG or OT.

Walk Worthy,

[Racehorse]

Heh...and now for the third opinion....

None of that matters if Luck is still getting hit 10+ times a game. Full stop. End of discussion.

Will a new, intelligence offensive system help with that? Sure.
Will a new OC / QB coach who are not idiots help with that? Sure.

But, in the end, our O-Linemen need to be able to hold at the point of attack making our RB by committee apporach more effective AND keep the pocket clean for Luck to make plays.

Can the Colts sign good enough guys in free agency to "fix" to O-Line problem? Yes they can. Will they? I will tell you in a month.

Grab one of Solder/Flemming at OT and then one of Norwell/Pugh/Kline/Mewhort at OG to add to the mix of Haeg and Good and may the best 3 win.

If the Colts do that, then I am fine with having the Chubb vs Barkley vs trade down debate.

But, if the Colts cannot do that, then I hope they use the #3 on the best O-Lineman they can and I don't care if he is OG or OT.

Walk Worthy,
I would love to add Norwell and go with young defenders in the draft. However, I see Roquan Smith as the player that you have to try to get. He is a field general and very good all over the field. I would even reach a couple picks or so to get him, because he is going to be that good.

[smitty46953]

Heh...and now for the third opinion....

None of that matters if Luck is still getting hit 10+ times a game. Full stop. End of discussion...

...

I hope they use the #3 on the best O-Lineman they can and I don't care if he is OG or OT.

Walk Worthy,

I agree gotta fix the line, Go "Big~N~Ugly" early and avoid the rush ... Quenton Nelson here for me !!!

:cool:

[FatDT]

Swing posts here again?

No way is a RB or guard worth the #3 pick. Barkley and Nelson are probably going to be very good players. But you don't need a top 5 pick at either position to have an elite player there. On the other hand you usually do need a top 1st rounder to have an elite pass rusher. Passing on Chubb seems like a bad choice to me, we are hurting for 4-3 DEs and that is one of the few positions where an individual makes the most difference on an NFL team. The RB and interior OL class is a lot deeper than at pass rusher this year. There's one premier, elite DE prospect, and we will probably be able to draft him. It's crazy to me to think about passing on him.

Also don't understand the mindset that we need to run our offense through a RB. Why even bother with having a franchise QB if that's what we're doing?

I am not sure Roquan Smith's game will work in the NFL. We'll see how he weighs in and moves at the Combine. Can he run the same way if he puts on 15 lbs?

[testcase448]

Given the developments in the AFC south it's damn clear you better be able to rush the passer, AND keep yours upright.
This team has too many holes to fill in both those areas to be very competitive next year.
Fix the pass rush, THE absolute number one priority and maybe that'll keep us in games. Then, if Luck survives perhaps he can get us a couple wins.
If he is busted, we'll have an early pick or two again

[YDFL Commish]

Early on I was on the Barkely at #3 bandwagon. But this a supply and demand league. The supply of pass rushers is small, while the supply of RB's is comparable to last years draft.

When you have the chance at the pass rusher, then you have to take it, because I doubt that we are picking at #3 again anytime soon.

As for Raquon Smith, let's just say...Let it go down in history, how many time the undersized LB has been discounted as being to small for the NFL, and all of the fans and pundits have been proven wrong.

[FatDT]

As for Raquon Smith, let's just say...Let it go down in history, how many time the undersized LB has been discounted as being to small for the NFL, and all of the fans and pundits have been proven wrong.

I don't think he's flat out too small. I think he's too small to dominate in the NFL like he did in college, and therefore don't think I'd take him early in round 1. He will need to get bigger, and usually when players get bigger they get slower. A lot of his playmaking was based on his speed.

[rcubed]

give me chubb.


(insert jokes here)

[HoosierinFL]

No way is a RB or guard worth the #3 pick. Barkley and Nelson are probably going to be very good players. But you don't need a top 5 pick at either position to have an elite player there. On the other hand you usually do need a top 1st rounder to have an elite pass rusher. Passing on Chubb seems like a bad choice to me, we are hurting for 4-3 DEs and that is one of the few positions where an individual makes the most difference on an NFL team.

This is basically my feeling, and even if I agree with Brett Kollman's most recent film room, in which he says Barkley is the best RB prospect in over a decade and is the second coming of LaDainian Tomlinson, I still don't know about taking him at 3. I'd hate to miss out on him, but I'd likewise hate to leave holes on a defense that is more full of holes than the offense.

Also, not sure why Chubb wouldn't have an immediate Freeney-like impact. He's a slightly different kind of player so may not expect the speed-demon outside rushes, but he is still the kind of guy who can come in and have an impact right away.

[sherck]

This is basically my feeling, and even if I agree with Brett Kollman's most recent film room, in which he says Barkley is the best RB prospect in over a decade and is the second coming of LaDainian Tomlinson, I still don't know about taking him at 3. I'd hate to miss out on him, but I'd likewise hate to leave holes on a defense that is more full of holes than the offense.

Also, not sure why Chubb wouldn't have an immediate Freeney-like impact. He's a slightly different kind of player so may not expect the speed-demon outside rushes, but he is still the kind of guy who can come in and have an impact right away.
The question on my mind is not if Chubb cannot have an immediate impact.

My question is if he is THAT much better than Arden Key whom will very probably be available at the top of the 2nd round?

Or is Chubb that much better than Davenport where we could trade back, pick up more 2nd or 3rd round picks and then pick Davenport in the middle of the 1st round?

If people were saying that he is Von Miller-like, then you take him at #3 no questions asked.

But folks are saying that he is complete and good and NFL ready but not transcendent.

I would like more picks for potentially good NFL players rather than less picks for potentially great NFL players. Lets get all 22 spots up to NFL average / good before worrying about NFL great.

Walk Worthy,

[Dam8610]

I would love to add Norwell and go with young defenders in the draft. However, I see Roquan Smith as the player that you have to try to get. He is a field general and very good all over the field. I would even reach a couple picks or so to get him, because he is going to be that good.

I'm not quite done watching film on him yet, but Smith seems undersized and like solid coverage LB who will struggle in run support in the NFL. He's going to have to learn how to fight through blocks better (losing squared up with TEs is bad news in the NFL) and he needs to finish plays better.

The question on my mind is not if Chubb cannot have an immediate impact.

My question is if he is THAT much better than Arden Key whom will very probably be available at the top of the 2nd round?

Or is Chubb that much better than Davenport where we could trade back, pick up more 2nd or 3rd round picks and then pick Davenport in the middle of the 1st round?

If people were saying that he is Von Miller-like, then you take him at #3 no questions asked.

But folks are saying that he is complete and good and NFL ready but not transcendent.

I would like more picks for potentially good NFL players rather than less picks for potentially great NFL players. Lets get all 22 spots up to NFL average / good before worrying about NFL great.

Walk Worthy,

I've heard Chubb compared to Joey Bosa and Mario Williams. I've seen him take over games and singlehandedly wreck offensive gameplans. As I said in the other thread, he reminds me of Jared Allen because of how polished of a technician and NFL ready he is. If you're debating Chubb vs. Davenport, the right question isn't how much better is Chubb than Davenport now (because Chubb is leaps and bounds better currently), it's who will be better in 5 years. My answer to that is I'm fairly confident that Chubb will be a pro bowler and in the all pro conversation, while Davenport will either be an all pro himself, or a struggling backup somewhere. Davenport has all the tools and needs a lot of coaching to refine his technique. Chubb is NFL ready now and will likely become an impact player. I'd take Chubb between the two because the floor is much higher while the ceiling is comparable, but there's no doubt that Davenport has the higher ceiling. It's just not by much.

[FatDT]

Sherck all you need to know about Arden Key is that his production came when he was 235 lbs. He ran around blockers. That was 2016. Since then he ballooned up to 280 while taking time off from football, came back around 260, and did nothing his final year of college ball. I wouldn't touch him until the 4th and that's if he had a reasonable explanation for the off field stuff. Seems like an athlete that doesn't really want to play football.

I also think the "Chubb is solid but not great" stuff came from one early comment weeks ago when someone said "He's not Miles Garrett but he's the best edge rusher in this class". Since then I've read many glowing reports on him highlighting his athleticism, technique, strength, football knowledge, and motor. I've watched games where he has been an unblockable force of nature. I don't think he's going to run a 4.5 40 but the Combine should put to rest any questions about how athletic he is. He is not just the tallest midget, he is a defense-changing prospect and we are lucky to be in position to get him (assuming he doesn't go before we pick).

[VeveJones007]

Chubb. If for some weird reason he's taken at 1 or 2, trade back to later in the top 10 and pick Smith or Nelson.

[VeveJones007]

The question on my mind is not if Chubb cannot have an immediate impact.

My question is if he is THAT much better than Arden Key whom will very probably be available at the top of the 2nd round?

Or is Chubb that much better than Davenport where we could trade back, pick up more 2nd or 3rd round picks and then pick Davenport in the middle of the 1st round?

If people were saying that he is Von Miller-like, then you take him at #3 no questions asked.

But folks are saying that he is complete and good and NFL ready but not transcendent.

I would like more picks for potentially good NFL players rather than less picks for potentially great NFL players. Lets get all 22 spots up to NFL average / good before worrying about NFL great.

Walk Worthy,

Bradley Chubb on the Colts fast surface is a perennial All Pro. So what if he's Jared Allen and not Lawrence Taylor? Don't overthink this.

[Racehorse]

Swing posts here again?



Kind of cool, huh?

[YDFL Commish]

The 2nd best pass rusher in this draft is Harold Landry.

What the drop-off is between Chubb and Landry is the key question.

I don't know the answer to that question. But I do know that you have to watch Landry's junior season to get the truer answer.

[njcoltfan]

Sherck all you need to know about Arden Key is that his production came when he was 235 lbs. He ran around blockers. That was 2016. Since then he ballooned up to 280 while taking time off from football, came back around 260, and did nothing his final year of college ball. I wouldn't touch him until the 4th and that's if he had a reasonable explanation for the off field stuff. Seems like an athlete that doesn't really want to play football.

I also think the "Chubb is solid but not great" stuff came from one early comment weeks ago when someone said "He's not Miles Garrett but he's the best edge rusher in this class". Since then I've read many glowing reports on him highlighting his athleticism, technique, strength, football knowledge, and motor. I've watched games where he has been an unblockable force of nature. I don't think he's going to run a 4.5 40 but the Combine should put to rest any questions about how athletic he is. He is not just the tallest midget, he is a defense-changing prospect and we are lucky to be in position to get him (assuming he doesn't go before we pick).

I couldn't have said it better myself !! Chubb is the #1 defensive player in this years draft, if Ballard passes on him I will lose a lot of faith in him. You can bolster the OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, NOT at pick #3.

[sherck]

O-Line Dream Scenario:

#1 Re-sign Jack Mewhort on a 1-year "prove it" deal with big incentives.

#2 Win the Andrew Norwell contest by backing up a HUGE truck load of money.

#3 Sign OT Cameron Flemming from the Cheats to a low-end starter contract.

#4 Draft one of the following OGs in the 2nd or 3rd rounds of the draft: Isaiah Wynn (Georgia, 2nd round), Will Hernandez (UTEP, 2nd round), Billy Price (OSU, 3rd round), Will Clapp (LSU 3rd round)

We could get greedy and say sign Nate Solder instead of Flemming but I think Solder will be way overpaid and I think Ballard only geeks on one huge O-Line contract. If so, I would want Norwell over Solder.

That gives us a depth chart of:

OT = Anthony Castonzo, Cameron Flemming, Denzelle Good, Joe Haeg

OG = Andrew Norwell, Jack Mewhort, Rookie, Le'Raven Clark

OC = Ryan Kelly, Mike Person

So, the whole rest of the draft can be used for defense and/or offensive speciality positions and we only brought in 2 outside veteran free agents.



My guess is that we will end up with a whole lot less than ideal but it is what it is.

However, that is what I would love to see happen for the offensive line.

Walk Worthy,

[Swing4DaFences]

If we have Luck, Saquon, Gore, and T.Y., we will be hard to stop on every single possession.

If we have Chubb, he doesn't even get to use his super power until we force the opponent into predictable passing situations.

If Chubb has a huge showing at the combine, it could change my mind.

[YDFL Commish]

O-Line Dream Scenario:
Flemming


#4 Draft one of the following OGs in the 2nd or 3rd rounds of the draft: Isaiah Wynn (Georgia, 2nd round), Will Hernandez (UTEP, 2nd round), Billy Price (OSU, 3rd round), Will Clapp (LSU 3rd round)

Walk Worthy,

Wynn, Hernandez and Price could all be gone by the time we pick in the 2nd rd. In fact I expect at least one of them to be a 1st rd pick.

I would also throw James Daniels in that mix of OL from above. In fact, if my OL coach and my center agreed, I would consider drafting Daniels and moving Kelly to RG.

[1965southpaw]

If we have Luck, Saquon, Gore, and T.Y., we will be hard to stop on every single possession.

If we have Chubb, he doesn't even get to use his super power until we force the opponent into predictable passing situations.

If Chubb has a huge showing at the combine, it could change my mind.

Just saw a report on NFL total access that Colts are not resigning Gore. Not sure if that's official or just speculation but they were talking about it like it was a done deal when they were discussing the greatest roster needs for the Colts.

[omahacolt]

Absolutely do not take Barkley

[Indiana V2]

Without hesitation you take Chubb. Time to build a superior defense.

[YDFL Commish]

Absolutely do not take Barkley

Why, only because I want to hear of your reasoning?

[Butter]

Why, only because I want to hear of your reasoning?

It is easier to find good RBs later than Pass rushers. If you have a 3 you focus on QB, LT and Pass Rush.

[omahacolt]

Why, only because I want to hear of your reasoning?

We have way too many holes to use a top 5 Pick on a rb. Running backs can be found anywhere

[Racehorse]

Why, only because I want to hear of your reasoning?

Who was the last RB taken third? The answer might give sound reasoning.

[Coltsalr]

Who was the last RB taken third? The answer might give sound reasoning.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FeminineInconsequentialAlaskanhusky-size_restricted.gif

[Indiana V2]

Chubb. Chubb. Chubb.

[DragonTails]

If we have Luck, Saquon, Gore, and T.Y., we will be hard to stop on every single possession.



That's simply not true.

You win superbowls in this league with oline and dline and we've failed miserably the last 5+ years at scouting this talent.

It has to be Chubb. We don't need another shiny new toy (Barkley). Would I love to have him - hell yea, but the team needs Chubb.

[smitty46953]

Chubb. Chubb. Chubb.

You need a moist towelette ? :eek:

[Indiana V2]

The only way we take Barkley is if Chubb goes 1 or 2, and the Colts can't find a partner to trade down. My worst fear would be Chubb goes #1, Barkley #2, and we don't trade down.

[rcubed]

Heard on the radio that Giants are really interested in Chubb at #2 rather than a QB. (Joel klatt maybe?). Anyway that would suck unless we are really looking to trade back.

[VeveJones007]

Heard on the radio that Giants are really interested in Chubb at #2 rather than a QB. (Joel klatt maybe?). Anyway that would suck unless we are really looking to trade back.

Gettleman liked himself some 1st round RBs in Carolina. If he can’t find a trade partner targeting a QB, I wouldn’t be shocked to see him go with Barkley.

[Maniac]

Who was the last RB taken third? The answer might give sound reasoning.

and unfortunately no rings with the player that pick was used on.

[Chromeburn]

Here is my take. I would love to stockpile picks if we had some impact players already on the team to build around. But we are lacking in a lot of areas. We will have a shot of at least at two of the four best players in this draft.

After QB, the second most important position in today's league iis a pass rusher. We do not have a bell cow in that area so our need aligns with the best defender in the draft: Chubb. I heard Mcglinchey say a few weeks ago in an interview that Chubb was hands down the best defender he has ever faced. He has also been working out against him every day in California. If you don't have a pass rush, you are going nowhere in this league. I think we should double dip in this draft at the very least. After Chubb, the DE candidates start to get sketchy. I don't want a project like Davenport. Sure he has a high ceiling, also has a low floor. For every Davenport that succeeds there are a ton that go by the wayside. I will take technique and skill over raw athleticism. IMO the first round is not the round to take those projects.

If Chubb is gone, I would go with Nelson. I really like Barkley, in the right offense he could be a devastating weapon. He isn't really a hard inside runner, you want to move him all over to create mismatches. He would be hard to pass by especially if you think he could have a Faulk type impact. That is really hard to pass by, especially since we need an impact player in the backfield. However, this draft is deep at RB: Guice, Jones, Johnson, Chubb, Michel, Freeman, Penny, Kelly, Adams, Walton, Ballage. Not all will be a bell cow, but there is a lot of potential in there and some of these guys will fall. We could get a good back in the third or fourth.

This is also a deep draft in interior linemen. Will Hernandez the past two years has been rated very close to Nelson, and was rated better last year. Bill Price, Raganow, Brandon, and more. There are guys to be had. The reason I say Nelson next after Chubb is b/c Nelson would allow Luck to step up in the pocket. I don't like drafting a guard that high, but his skill and potential has kind of won me over. Still, we could get a guy later and not have a lot of dropoff IMO.

If I have my way, this is how I would draft:
1. Bradley Chubb
2. Maurice Hurst

This would give us instant pass rush. I think Hurst might drop because teams are worried about his size holding up in the league. But in our scheme I think he would excel. He would give us that interior pass rush presence we lacked the last time we ran a 4-3. He would prevent QB's from stepping up into the pocket and they would be moving off their space. Combine that with Chubb's non-stop motor and they could be a devastating combination for years.

Defense wins championships, and this would instantly inject our D with the most critical component to win today. With these two on the front line, Hooker will capitalize from the mistakes that will be forced. Giving our offense more possessions, which equal more points, which means the other team has to pass more. Rinse, repeat.

Now check out this mock I saw this morning
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-browns-pull-off-andrew-luck-trade-colts-own-three-top-five-picks/

[Chromeburn]

Heard on the radio that Giants are really interested in Chubb at #2 rather than a QB. (Joel klatt maybe?). Anyway that would suck unless we are really looking to trade back.

That would be a smart play. JPP is almost done. But they need a QB and they are kidding themselves if they think they will get a better shot at getting one in the next couple years. They can groom a guy for a couple years behind Eli, which is exactly what most of these QB's need.

[Maniac]

That would be a smart play. JPP is almost done. But they need a QB and they are kidding themselves if they think they will get a better shot at getting one in the next couple years. They can groom a guy for a couple years behind Eli, which is exactly what most of these QB's need.

It depends on their long term plan. They may know they'll suck for a few years. If they view the QB options in next year's draft as better than this year, they may take the pass rusher this year and wait a year on the QB.

Not really a big deal either way. If they take chubb, it makes our pick that much more valuable for some other team that wants a QB, so it could set up a big trade. If they don't take chubb, then we get him. Either way, we are sitting good.

[Oldcolt]

The issue I have is that there appear to be 4 players at the top of the draft with a dropoff afterwards. We need help at all four positions. To me it seems to depend on what is available after these 4. It seems that rb and guard are deep in this draft according to 'experts'. If I add that to what Polian once said (never pass on a qb or a pass rusher) I'm pulling for Chubb. If he is off the board then I hope it's Barkley. I'm hoping free agency can help with the interior line. We are on our way boys and girls. This is going to be a fun ride. Go Colts!!

[Indiana V2]

Listening to the radio today there's a lot of people saying that they think the Browns will take Barkley first overall.

[rcubed]

ok, lets say barkley and chubb go 1-2 and no one wants to trade up to 3 who do you take then?

nelson?
fitzpatric?

[Dam8610]

Listening to the radio today there's a lot of people saying that they think the Browns will take Barkley first overall.

I somewhat hope they do. If the top 2 picks are:

1) Barkley
2) Nelson

The Colts would essentially have the ability to auction off the #1 pick with all the QBs left on the board. At that point, unless the Browns sign Cousins between now and then, dropping down to 5 or 6 and making the Broncos or Jets pay a king's ransom to get their QB of choice while still getting Chubb makes all the sense in the world.

[DrSpaceman]

ok, lets say barkley and chubb go 1-2 and no one wants to trade up to 3 who do you take then?

nelson?
fitzpatric?

I'd go Nelson then if you truly can't take down.

I know its high for a OG, but it is a position of need and does solidify the line quite a bit. If you have a middle of Kelley, Nelson and Mewhort with Castonzo at one tackle, that's the best OL the COlts have had in about a decade.

[DrSpaceman]

I know it won't happen, but someone on the all knowing powerhouse of ideas of facebook suggested :

What if the Browns offer the 1 and 4 for Luck, Colts keep the third, then the Colts draft Barkely, Chubb and a QB at 1, 3 and 4.

It won't happen, but I did have to admit it was an interesting idea.

[YDFL Commish]

I know it won't happen, but someone on the all knowing powerhouse of ideas of facebook suggested :

What if the Browns offer the 1 and 4 for Luck, Colts keep the third, then the Colts draft Barkely, Chubb and a QB at 1, 3 and 4.

It won't happen, but I did have to admit it was an interesting idea.

They would have to offer more.

[Butter]

I somewhat hope they do. If the top 2 picks are:

1) Barkley
2) Nelson

The Colts would essentially have the ability to auction off the #1 pick with all the QBs left on the board. At that point, unless the Browns sign Cousins between now and then, dropping down to 5 or 6 and making the Broncos or Jets pay a king's ransom to get their QB of choice while still getting Chubb makes all the sense in the world.

I would be ok with that. If not trading down I prefer CHubb, but I have to admit being a bit more interested in Barkley after those combine numbers.

[jasperhobbs]

There is no way Barkley falls to number 3 in the draft. I bet the Browns take him at number 1 and then pick QB at number 4.

[1965southpaw]

good article on various free agent options..........

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-free-agency-lines-perfectly-170112159.html

[Dam8610]

ok, lets say barkley and chubb go 1-2 and no one wants to trade up to 3 who do you take then?

nelson?
fitzpatric?

I can't imagine no team in the league would want their choice of QB in this draft and be willing to pay a hefty price for that, but if that somehow happened, there'd be a few defenders I'd consider there, and you might even consider playing chicken with the rest of the league by drafting a QB and forcing teams to come to you.

[Dam8610]

They would have to offer more.

Yeah, I'd need their 2019 and 2020 1s to trade Luck and take a chance on Rosen or Darnold busting.

[Colts And Orioles]

If Saquon is available at 3, I’d take him. I think he’s a generational talent that would make everything else easier on offense. I would take him over 2 solid O-linemen, because I think his talent cannot be taught, while many big solid college linemen can be developed through good NFL coaching.

If Saquon is not available, at 3 that’s actually even better. That would mean one of the marquee QB’s is on the board, and someone will give you a first rounder this year and next, along with a 2nd or 3rd this year. I would take that ransom over Bradley Chubb. I have nothing bad to say about Chubb, except that picking him straight up at 3 is probably our worst outcome in my opinion. We are switching to a 4-3, we have new coaches and a no-name defense, and I just can’t see even a very talented pass rusher making a Freeney-esque impact for several years.

Frank Reich is an offensive guy and I say you stack him with weapons first, and see if you can get a big defensive steal later in the draft. Mathis, Bethea, Bob Sanders, Cato, Thornton, Brackett- none of those guys were first round picks, but you’re not going to find Luck-like offensive talent outside of the first or 2nd rounds.





o


Bradley Chubb's Passion to Be Like Khalil Mack and Von Miller is What the Colts Need

(By Mike Wells)

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/22914/bradley-chubbs-passion-to-have-khalil-mack-and-von-millers-skills-is-what-colts-need-at-no-3


o

[VeveJones007]

Ed Edholm from PFW had this thought if no QBs go 1-2:

Just spitballing here: If Browns pass on QB at 1, Colts GM Chris Ballard could seize an opportunity to offer 3 to Browns the way 49ers did with Bears last year.

That's assuming Giants don't go QB at 2, which I don't think they will. Colts could get their man at 4 and add picks.

[VeveJones007]

Matt Miller’s latest mock has Colts going Chubb, Sony Michel, and WR Dante Pettis in first three rounds.

[Dam8610]

Ed Edholm from PFW had this thought if no QBs go 1-2:

Too many good QBs for one to not go 1 or 2, but even if that's the case, I think the Colts stay put or trade back. I think the Colts still get Chubb at 4, 5, or 6 and could start a bidding war between the Browns, Jets, and Broncos for their QB of choice, especially if the Browns go Barkley at 1 and Cousins signs with Minnesota.

[FatDT]

Matt Miller’s latest mock has Colts going Chubb, Sony Michel, and WR Dante Pettis in first three rounds.

I would be pretty happy with the first two. Chubb is a given. Michel didn't run very fast but I still like his game. Dunno anything about Pettis and would rather take a LB in the 3rd.

[VeveJones007]

I would be pretty happy with the first two. Chubb is a given. Michel didn't run very fast but I still like his game. Dunno anything about Pettis and would rather take a LB in the 3rd.

Based on recent mocks, it seems like the Colts will get really good value with their second pick. Michel would be a really solid pick.

[DragonTails]

I wish we could some how get Chubb and Nelson. Hell, we gave up a first round for freaking TR.

Getting these 2 players would turn this team around in the right direction.

[omahacolt]

Matt Miller’s latest mock has Colts going Chubb, Sony Michel, and WR Dante Pettis in first three rounds.

I hope not

[Dam8610]

Matt Miller’s latest mock has Colts going Chubb, Sony Michel, and WR Dante Pettis in first three rounds.

I'd hope for Chubb, Vander Esch...I don't really care who the 3rd round pick is at that point, I'd be happy with those two.

[YDFL Commish]

I hope not

Not a Sony Michel fan?

[VeveJones007]

I'd hope for Chubb, Vander Esch...I don't really care who the 3rd round pick is at that point, I'd be happy with those two.

Miller has Vander Esch off the board in the 1st.

[VeveJones007]

Not a Sony Michel fan?

I think he would be the best RB Indy has had since Edge. That isn’t really saying a lot, but I think he’s really damn good.

[DragonTails]

I think he would be the best RB Indy has had since Edge. That isn’t really saying a lot, but I think he’s really damn good.


We don't need skill positions from the draft this year. We need oline, dline, LB.

[VeveJones007]

We don't need skill positions from the draft this year. We need oline, dline, LB.

It depends on who is available at 2.04. Michel very well may be BPA and can have a Kamara-like impact. He might be the best value.

[Racehorse]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/3/9/17101828/chris-ballard-says-the-3rd-pick-will-be-available-for-trade-until-the-last-minute

Ballard is so open to trading the pick that he'll keep the phone line open til the clock almost runs out.

[YDFL Commish]

We don't need skill positions from the draft this year. We need oline, dline, LB.

No skill positions at all? We have no WR's past Hilton and Rogers. We have 1 proven TE.

I understand that LB, OL and pass rush are the biggest needs, but you can't pick worser players, when the more better players might be skill position players.

I don't want to start rookie OL. That's why, I say load up the truck for Norwell and then pick developmental G or T.

[VeveJones007]

With the Vikings getting Cousins, I'm wondering if it might be a viable scenario for the Colts to move back to #6 and still get Chubb.

1) QB1 - Browns
2) Barkley - Giants
3) QB2 - Jets
4) Fitzpatrick - Browns (or Bills trade up for QB3)
5) QB3/4, Fitzpatrick, Nelson - Broncos
6) Chubb - Colts

Biggest question mark is what happens a 4 &5. If things worked out this way, Colts could get Chubb and add at least pick #37.

[YDFL Commish]

With the Vikings getting Cousins, I'm wondering if it might be a viable scenario for the Colts to move back to #6 and still get Chubb.

1) QB1 - Browns
2) Barkley - Giants
3) QB2 - Jets
4) Fitzpatrick - Browns (or Bills trade up for QB3)
5) QB3/4, Fitzpatrick, Nelson - Broncos
6) Chubb - Colts

Biggest question mark is what happens a 4 &5. If things worked out this way, Colts could get Chubb and add at least pick #37.

It would indicate to me that Elway is a moron.

[Dam8610]

With the Vikings getting Cousins, I'm wondering if it might be a viable scenario for the Colts to move back to #6 and still get Chubb.

1) QB1 - Browns
2) Barkley - Giants
3) QB2 - Jets
4) Fitzpatrick - Browns (or Bills trade up for QB3)
5) QB3/4, Fitzpatrick, Nelson - Broncos
6) Chubb - Colts

Biggest question mark is what happens a 4 &5. If things worked out this way, Colts could get Chubb and add at least pick #37.

I've said for a while that the "Trade down and still get Chubb" sweepstakes is a 2 or 3 team race with the Broncos and Jets involved, and maybe the Browns if they take Barkley at 1. Can't trade back past Tampa though, they'd take Chubb.

[Racehorse]

With the Vikings getting Cousins, I'm wondering if it might be a viable scenario for the Colts to move back to #6 and still get Chubb.

1) QB1 - Browns
2) Barkley - Giants
3) QB2 - Jets
4) Fitzpatrick - Browns (or Bills trade up for QB3)
5) QB3/4, Fitzpatrick, Nelson - Broncos
6) Chubb - Colts

Biggest question mark is what happens a 4 &5. If things worked out this way, Colts could get Chubb and add at least pick #37.

Nostradamus?

[omahacolt]

Not a Sony Michel fan?

I Am a build the lines and defense guy. A rb and wr in the 2nd and 3rd is not my ideal draft

[Butter]

I Am a build the lines and defense guy. A rb and wr in the 2nd and 3rd is not my ideal draft

I agree, Build the lines and the rest will follow. Franchise QB is clealy the first thing, but we have that.

[Dam8610]

My guess is:

1) Browns - QB1
2) Giants - QB2
3) Jets - QB3
4) Browns - Barkley
5) Broncos - QB4
6) Colts - Chubb

[omahacolt]

My guess is:

1) Browns - QB1
2) Giants - QB2
3) Jets - QB3
4) Browns - Barkley
5) Broncos - QB4
6) Colts - Chubb

Nope

Not going to happen

[Dam8610]

Nope

Not going to happen

Great reasoning there, your argument is quite compelling.

[rcubed]

I dont think giants go QB. If CLE thinks they will go barkley 2 then CLE may still go barkley 1 and QB at 4. I read and heard on radio the giants like chubb.

[YDFL Commish]

I Am a build the lines and defense guy. A rb and wr in the 2nd and 3rd is not my ideal draft

Who said a rb and wr? With the 2nd rd picks we now have, Ballard fill any hope he wants.

Besides, I was advocating Michel, OL, OL in the 2nd.

[VeveJones007]

Nope

Not going to happen

I think Chubb could very well be there at 6. Dismissing it out of hand is foolish.

[omahacolt]

Great reasoning there, your argument is quite compelling.

4 qbs won’t go in the top 5

[omahacolt]

I think Chubb could very well be there at 6. Dismissing it out of hand is foolish.

That wasnt my point but Chubb makes too much sense for Ballard to do it

[VeveJones007]

4 qbs won’t go in the top 5

Yes they will. Browns will trade out of 4, bringing in another team (probably Buffalo) who wants a QB.

[omahacolt]

Yes they will. Browns will trade out of 4, bringing in another team (probably Buffalo) who wants a QB.

Nope

[VeveJones007]

Nope

Lay out your top 5 then.

[Dam8610]

4 qbs won’t go in the top 5

It's a QB heavy draft with QB needy teams at the top. 4 QBs in the top 5 is likely.

[omahacolt]

Lay out your top 5 then.

Just take out a qb and add someone else

[VeveJones007]

Just take out a qb and add someone else

Darnold
Barkley
Rosen
Mayfield (Bills)
Allen

I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours.

[Racehorse]

Darnold


I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours.

Fags!

[VeveJones007]

Fags!

I “liked” this even though you joked the joke.

[DrSpaceman]

Elway claims the Broncos "have their guy"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2018/03/16/case-keenum-denver-broncos-nfl-draft-quarterback/433082002/

But I find it hard to believe with a top 5 though they won't try to draft someone

[testcase448]

Elway claims the Broncos "have their guy"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2018/03/16/case-keenum-denver-broncos-nfl-draft-quarterback/433082002/

But I find it hard to believe with a top 5 though they won't try to draft someone

They will draft someone...Chubb

[Discflinger]

I “liked” this even though you joked the joke.

Insecure?

[Dam8610]

They will draft someone...Chubb

With their defense and (lack of) QB situation? Doubt it.

[VeveJones007]

Insecure?

Look up. There’s the joke going over your head.

[Indiana V2]

Insecure?

I'm guessing you're new here.

[Indiana V2]

My preference with the #6 pick is Chubb, but assuming at least 2 QB's will be taken before our pick that leaves Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, and Fitzpatrick for us to take, and I would be happy with any of those guys, hope it's Chubb though, he fills our biggest need, followed by Nelson.

[Butter]

My preference with the #6 pick is Chubb, but assuming at least 2 QB's will be taken before our pick that leaves Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, and Fitzpatrick for us to take, and I would be happy with any of those guys, hope it's Chubb though, he fills our biggest need, followed by Nelson.

Pass rusher if you have the QB you always want the pass rusher or LT.

[sherck]

My preference with the #6 pick is Chubb, but assuming at least 2 QB's will be taken before our pick that leaves Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, and Fitzpatrick for us to take, and I would be happy with any of those guys, hope it's Chubb though, he fills our biggest need, followed by Nelson.

I agree with you that one of those 4 will be available at #6. My preference order:

1. Chubb
2. Nelson
3. Fitzpatrick
4. Barkley

All are talents. All could end up being impact players but BUILD THE LINES first and the defense second.

Walk Worthy,

[VeveJones007]

I agree with you that one of those 4 will be available at #6. My preference order:

1. Chubb
2. Nelson
3. Fitzpatrick
4. Barkley

All are talents. All could end up being impact players but BUILD THE LINES first and the defense second.

Walk Worthy,

If in the unlikely scenario that Chubb and Nelson both aren't there, then there will still be a QB or 2 available and I would want to trade down again to Buffalo, Miami, or Arizona.

[ukcolt]

If the draft went like this

Browns - QB
Giants - Barkley
Jets - QB
Browns - Chubb
Denver - Nelson

and both are Chubb and Nelson are gone, and we are unable to trade back (highly unlikely as you would assume someone would then be desperate to get the 3rd and 4th QB's)....who do we take with the 6th pick? The next best talent to me is Minkah Fitzpatrick, but i am not sure that he can play the outside corner position. He almost certainly can handle the slot position and be a fantastic FS, but we already have decent talent at those positions but Ballard is a best player available guy, maybe he would consider Trumaine Edmunds or Roquan Smith to be the best available at positions of need or one of the corners Ward or Jackson maybe?

[Dam8610]

If the draft went like this

Browns - QB
Giants - Barkley
Jets - QB
Browns - Chubb
Denver - Nelson

and both are Chubb and Nelson are gone, and we are unable to trade back (highly unlikely as you would assume someone would then be desperate to get the 3rd and 4th QB's)....who do we take with the 6th pick? The next best talent to me is Minkah Fitzpatrick, but i am not sure that he can play the outside corner position. He almost certainly can handle the slot position and be a fantastic FS, but we already have decent talent at those positions but Ballard is a best player available guy, maybe he would consider Trumaine Edmunds or Roquan Smith to be the best available at positions of need or one of the corners Ward or Jackson maybe?

The most confusing thing about this draft to me is that people think the Giants aren't going to take a QB when all they have at QB is 37 year old Eli Manning. Why is this a thing?

[FatDT]

The most confusing thing about this draft to me is that people think the Giants aren't going to take a QB when all they have at QB is 37 year old Eli Manning. Why is this a thing?

I think people took the about-face the Giants did on Manning too far. When their HC was there and benched Manning, it appeared the Giants were moving on, but obviously that guy was fired and Manning was right back to starting. But somehow that turned into "The Giants are in win-now mode and will build as much as possible around Manning to try to get another SB before he retires." I don't know of any direct quotes that support that. I'll be surprised if they don't take a QB.

[ukcolt]

I fully agree that the Giants ought to take a QB, but seen many a mock where they select Barkley and i was just playing devils advocate in terms of what the Colts might then do if Chubb, Barkley and Nelson were not on the board when they pick.

[VeveJones007]

The most confusing thing about this draft to me is that people think the Giants aren't going to take a QB when all they have at QB is 37 year old Eli Manning. Why is this a thing?

Not sure I trust Gettleman to do the sensible thing, which is either draft a QB or trade out.

[HoosierinFL]

If the draft went like this



and both are Chubb and Nelson are gone, and we are unable to trade back (highly unlikely as you would assume someone would then be desperate to get the 3rd and 4th QB's)....who do we take with the 6th pick? The next best talent to me is Minkah

I know you're just entertaining what ifs, but if the drat really shook out like that, it's a 100% they could trade back. Buffalo in particular would likely offer an attractive package.

[DrSpaceman]

I know you're just entertaining what ifs, but if the drat really shook out like that, it's a 100% they could trade back. Buffalo in particular would likely offer an attractive package.

I think you are right.

That scenario may be even better for the Colts, Buffalo would be quickly trying to trade up and offering whatever they could to do so. More high picks for the Colts and trade back again

[1965southpaw]

I fully agree that the Giants ought to take a QB, but seen many a mock where they select Barkley and i was just playing devils advocate in terms of what the Colts might then do if Chubb, Barkley and Nelson were not on the board when they pick.


The mock draft on NFL Total Access today was projecting Nelson to the Giants, Barkley to Cleveland with their 4 pick and Chubb to colts at 6 with QBs selected in the other spots above.

[Dam8610]

The mock draft on NFL Total Access today was projecting Nelson to the Giants, Barkley to Cleveland with their 4 pick and Chubb to colts at 6 with QBs selected in the other spots above.

That works for me. Anything that gets Chubb to the Colts.

[sherck]

That works for me. Anything that gets Chubb to the Colts.
I am pretty much in the camp of:

1. Chubb
2. Nelson
3. Trade Down

Neither of the other two "talents" (Barkley, Fitzpatrick) really make sense for the Colts at #6 so if both the linemen are off the board then lets go get some more 2nd and 3rd round pick to drop down a slot or 3 and pick from the next tier of guys to help our team.

Walk Worthy,

[Puck]

I think you are right.

That scenario may be even better for the Colts, Buffalo would be quickly trying to trade up and offering whatever they could to do so. More high picks for the Colts and trade back again

Who does buffalo really need to worry about between 6 and 12 taking a QB that they would trade up? Possibly Miami but I dont think they are in a position of worry. Dolphins have a good QB if he is healthy

Doubt we could get much in a trade with Buffalo

[sherck]

Who does buffalo really need to worry about between 6 and 12 taking a QB that they would trade up? Possibly Miami but I dont think they are in a position of worry. Dolphins have a good QB if he is healthy

Doubt we could get much in a trade with Buffalo
It is not necessarily about who between 6 and 12 needs a QB....

It is about who could also trade UP in front of them and nab the remaining QB that they might want.

While I don't see a ton of teams in the 'teens that need QBs, the 2 that jump out at me are BAL at #16 and LAC at #17. Flacco is 33 and has not been doing much lately and Rivers is 36 with his primary backup being Kellen Clemens who is 34.

If the remaining "top" QB is still sitting there at #10 or #11, then I could see a team in the low teens potentially being interesting in jumping up and snagging him.

If team management things that a kid is "da bomb diggidy," they are typically willing to trade a lot to move up and get him.

Walk Worthy,

[ukcolt]

I don't think that anything is going to happen with the Colts 6th pick until the draft now. Especially if the Bills have their sights set on a particular QB that they have fallen in love with and he isn't available, why would they waste their picks?

There are quite a few QB's in this class who could very well become productive starters, Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Mayfield are the big 4, with the likes of Lamar Jackson also considered a 1st round prospect. But only a few weeks ago Mason Rudolph was all the rage, but he is now looking more like a 2nd or maybe even a 3rd round selection. Then you have the darling of the bowl games Kyle Lauletta, who looks like a very solid mid round selection, followed up by Mike White and Luke Falk.....that's 9 guys who look to have the chance to carve out a good career in the NFL. I like both Rudolph and Lauletta from the little i have seen of them, and with the lower expectations and pressure placed upon them being lower round selections, and the chance to maybe sit and learn from the sidelines, who knows, maybe they end up having the better long term careers than their more illustrious peers in this draft class.

[VeveJones007]

Who does buffalo really need to worry about between 6 and 12 taking a QB that they would trade up? Possibly Miami but I dont think they are in a position of worry. Dolphins have a good QB if he is healthy

Doubt we could get much in a trade with Buffalo

The same reason that the Jets paid so much for 3–there was another bidder (Buffalo). Miami, Arizona, and Baltimore are all interested in QBs.

[Swing4DaFences]

Just wanted to weigh in again now that the situation has changed-

We are in the perfect spot now. Ballard can queue up a few situational trades, and based on the first 5 picks, he can pull the trigger on a pre-arranged trade, or pull the trigger on an elite non-QB talent.

I could make a nice flow chart for this on Excel, but here's what could happen- You've got 4 QB's that at least someone is already in love with. Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Mayfield. It totally doesn't matter the order they are picked, it just matters how MANY of them are picked in the top 5.

If the first 5 picks are (order doesn't matter); the Colts will
QB1, QB2, QB3, QB4, and Barkley............take Chubb
QB1, QB2, QB3, QB4, and Chubb.............take Barkley


QB1, QB2, QB3, Barkley, Chubb...........Trade down, probably with the Bills, who would owe us the exact same ransom as the Jets paid us (or damn close to it) for the right to take the remaining QB. This is by far the best outcome, and I don't think it's that far-fetched. We could end up with 3 more picks (12 total), and still have a chance at Fitzpatrick, Nelson, Roquan Smith.

QB1, QB2, Barkley, Chubb, Nelson.........Same thing, trade down, except we will have double the potential trade partners since there will be 2 QB's on the board. Again, some GM out there would have taken 1 of those QB's with the FIRST overall pick if they had it.

In summary, I think the only 2 players we will actually select at #6 are Barkley or Chubb. If they are both off the board already, that would mean there is still at least one of the big 4 QB's available as trade bait, and I think we take advantage of that. I kind of doubt we would select Nelson or anyone else when we could acquire another 2 or 3 early picks.

No matter how you look at it, we are going to end up with SOMEONE who is the best at their position in the entire draft, along with a minimum of 3 2nd round picks, and a maximum of 5. We could plausibly draft an entire new starting offensive line in the 2018 2nd round.

[rcubed]

^^^ yep, that was a fantastic trade and we are sitting pretty!

[sherck]

IND sends #6 overall (1,600 points).....

BUF sends #12 overall (1,200 points)
21st pick in 2nd round #53 overall (370 points)
21st pick in 4th round #121 overall (52 points)

IND 1,600 points vs BUF 1,622 points.

Is adding another 2nd round and 4th round pick worth it to move down 6 more spots?

We could demand one of their 3rd round picks for higher compensation (#32 in 3rd round #96 overall, 116 points) instead of the more appropriate 4th round pick.

Does adding a 2nd round and 3rd round pick worth it to move down 6 spots?

It feels like to me that we got GREAT value to move from 3 to 6. I don't know that dropping from #6 is going to reward in similar fashion.

#01 overall = 3,000 points
#02 overall = 2,600 points
#03 overall = 2,200 points
#04 overall = 1,800 points <== breakpoint
#05 overall = 1,700 points
#06 overall = 1,600 points
#07 overall = 1,500 points
#08 overall = 1,400 points
#09 overall = 1,350 points <== breakpoint
#10 overall = 1,300 points
#11 overall = 1,250 points
#12 overall = 1,200 points
#13 overall = 1,150 points
#14 overall = 1,100 points
#15 overall = 1,050 points
#16 overall = 1,000 points
#17 overall = 0,950 points
#18 overall = 0,900 points
#19 overall = 0,875 points <== breakpoint

The 100 point spread between #4 and #8 is worth about an early 4th round pick each step.

The 50 point spread between #9 and #18 are worth about a late 4th round pick each step.

The point being is that the first 3 picks of the draft FAR OUTWEIGHT the next 3 picks or beyond because of the much larger spread in points (400 points per step instead of 100 points per step).

We got GREAT value for the #3; we will not get nearly as much for the #6.

The key is how much better does the Colts management rate guys like Chubb, Barkley, Nelson and Fitzpatrick (the typical "elite" non-QB players of the 2018 draft) versus the next tier down?

How much of a drop off is it in their mind to go from the "Elite 4" to guys like DT Maurice Hurst, S Derwin James, DE Harold Landry, LB Roquan Smith, OT Mike McGlinchey or LB Tremaine Edmunds? All of them would fill a "need" on the Colts roster and they are typically thought of players who will be picked in the middle of the 1st round.

I am pretty much Chubb, Nelson or trade down and keep stockpiling 2nd and 3rd round picks. There are lots of guys in the middle or bottom of the 1st round that I really like. Not as much as Chubb or Nelson, but them PLUS someone else (some multiple someone elses)?

Walk Worthy,

[FatDT]

If there is somehow a top QB left at #6, the QB tax and draft day tax means that Buffalo needs to give us both their 1st round picks this year. Throw out the chart.

[VeveJones007]

If there is somehow a top QB left at #6, the QB tax and draft day tax means that Buffalo needs to give us both their 1st round picks this year. Throw out the chart.

This right here. Though I don’t think Sherk is saying it has to be that value—just gauging.

[omahacolt]

^^^ yep, that was a fantastic trade and we are sitting pretty!

it was a fantastic trade

we just can't take at rb at 6

[rm1369]

it was a fantastic trade

we just can't take at rb at 6

If they had heavily invested in the O line in free agency it would have still been stupid to take a rb at 6. But considering the shit line it appears they are going to trot out next season, taking a rb at 6 would be criminally stupid.

[VeveJones007]

In Peter King’s last two columns, he’s said that Ballard is looking to trade down from 6 for even more picks. I’ll be upset if Chubb is there and he moves out.

[njcoltfan]

In Peter King’s last two columns, he’s said that Ballard is looking to trade down from 6 for even more picks. I’ll be upset if Chubb is there and he moves out.

He won't trade out of 6 if Chubb is there, that would insanely stupid.

[Indiana V2]

He won't trade out of 6 if Chubb is there, that would insanely stupid.

Ballard even mentioned that it would be hard to move back further if the player they want is available at 6.

[albany ed]

I'd like to see them get Chubb, then in round 2 maybe McGlinchy and a CB like Oliver.

[VeveJones007]

I'd like to see them get Chubb, then in round 2 maybe McGlinchy and a CB like Oliver.

Probably need to move back into 20-25 to get McGlinchy.

[Dam8610]

Probably need to move back into 20-25 to get McGlinchy.

Which they should be doing, but for one of the LBs that won't make it past the end of the first round.

[Maniac]

Colts re-signed Mewhort

[Dam8610]

Colts re-signed Mewhort

To me this signals that they're likely Chubb or bust at 6.

[Maniac]

To me this signals that they're likely Chubb or bust at 6.

They couldn't go into the draft without any free agents on the o-line or their hand may be forced. This gives them more freedom, but if Chubb is gone and Nelson is still there, you have to strongly consider it. That would be solidifying that position for sure, which they still really don't know otherwise if it is. I wouldn't consider Slausen or Mewhort as definitely solidifying it. It's taking some shots, but who knows if they work out or can stay healthy at all.

[DragonTails]

We need a damn play maker at 6 (Chubb). You can't have the 3rd pick in the draft and come away with a bunch of potential or projects.

The play maker(s) has to be on the on of the lines - not a rb or wr.

[Butter]

To me this signals that they're likely Chubb or bust at 6.

Probably, but I am not sure Mewhort stops you from drafting Nelson.

[FatDT]

Probably, but I am not sure Mewhort stops you from drafting Nelson.

I dont' think it flat out stops you from drafting him if he's the BPA when you pick. But I think if the Colts have the choice between him and Chubb you can make the case that the relative strength on the roster at guard vs. DE, plus the difference in positional value between DE and guard, would push it in Chubb's favor.

[VeveJones007]

I dont' think it flat out stops you from drafting him if he's the BPA when you pick. But I think if the Colts have the choice between him and Chubb you can make the case that the relative strength on the roster at guard vs. DE, plus the difference in positional value between DE and guard, would push it in Chubb's favor.

Agree on the positional value differential, but not on the current roster strength. Both groups are pretty terrible.

[sherck]

I dont' think it flat out stops you from drafting him if he's the BPA when you pick. But I think if the Colts have the choice between him and Chubb you can make the case that the relative strength on the roster at guard vs. DE, plus the difference in positional value between DE and guard, would push it in Chubb's favor.
Good post and I agree.

Chubb plus a 2nd round OG of which youare probably going to be picking the #2, #3, or #4 guy of the position group

VS

Nelson plus a 2nd round DE of which you are probably going to be picking the #5, #6, #7, or #8 guy of the position group.

Not much of a choice once you look at it that way.

Walk Worthy,

[FatDT]

Agree on the positional value differential, but not on the current roster strength. Both groups are pretty terrible.

I agree both are terrible. But I'd argue with Mewhort's signing guard is slightly less terrible. And that the depth at guard in the draft is a lot better than the depth at DE. Big dropoff after Chubb, whereas there are several guys after Nelson that look like potential quality starters in the NFL. Hernandez, Wynn, Price, Smith, Ragnow, Quessenberry, Teller. And you could throw in some of the OTs, we need a RT too.

[FatDT]

Good post and I agree.

Chubb plus a 2nd round OG of which youare probably going to be picking the #2, #3, or #4 guy of the position group

VS

Nelson plus a 2nd round DE of which you are probably going to be picking the #5, #6, #7, or #8 guy of the position group.

Not much of a choice once you look at it that way.

Walk Worthy,

And IMO anyway the #2,3, and 4 guys at DE aren't that great. After Chubb they all have big questions.

[omahacolt]

Which they should be doing, but for one of the LBs that won't make it past the end of the first round.

fuck no

no trading back into the 1st

[Butter]

fuck no

no trading back into the 1st

I agree, we have way too many needs and the 2nd is a great place to fill them. Hopefully, we never again have the opportunity to be this flush.

[DragonTails]

And IMO anyway the #2,3, and 4 guys at DE aren't that great. After Chubb they all have big questions.

We're not getting Chubb.

[Butter]

I dont' think it flat out stops you from drafting him if he's the BPA when you pick. But I think if the Colts have the choice between him and Chubb you can make the case that the relative strength on the roster at guard vs. DE, plus the difference in positional value between DE and guard, would push it in Chubb's favor.

I agree I feel pass rushing DE is much more important than guard.

[Puck]

I agree I feel pass rushing DE is much more important than guard.


Andrew Luck would beg to differ

[smitty46953]

Andrew Luck would beg to differ

His shoulder will feel a lot better if they say Nelson ... :cool:

[Butter]

Andrew Luck would beg to differ

Like Ballard said this is a team, not just Luck. Clearly, a lot needs to be done to protect him better, but a better D that pressures the other QB takes some pressure off Luck.

[VeveJones007]

Andrew Luck would beg to differ

Andrew can also speak from experience how impactful a pass rush can be.

[VeveJones007]

Like Ballard said this is a team, not just Luck. Clearly, a lot needs to be done to protect him better, but a better D that pressures the other QB takes some pressure off Luck.

Have to be able to protect a lead at LOS. Can’t do that without a pass rush. Late-Manning Colts consistently won with an average to bad o-line. They won because Manning got a lead and they had pass rushers to put teams away.

[YDFL Commish]

I agree I feel pass rushing DE is much more important than guard.

Below is barring injury, which no one can predict.

If the guard is in your mind a sure fire perennial all pro, and a likely HOF player, and the DE is at the level of a few Pro Bowls and a fringe HOF candidate, which one do you take?

[FatDT]

Below is barring injury, which no one can predict.

If the guard is in your mind a sure fire perennial all pro, and a likely HOF player, and the DE is at the level of a few Pro Bowls and a fringe HOF candidate, which one do you take?

A fringe HOF pass rusher and it's not even close.

[omahacolt]

A fringe HOF pass rusher and it's not even close.

Yep. Especially if we are talking about a LG

[Racehorse]

We're not getting Chubb.

NO, but the Colts might.

[VeveJones007]

Good article from Holder. Colts are working through their plan based on scenarios of what happens from 1-5.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2018/03/27/insider-what-learned-who-colts-select-nfl-draft/462245002/


As for what the Colts think of the individual prospects, we know they see Barkley as nearly flawless. That’s in line with pretty much the rest of the NFL. Chubb is an interesting evaluation. He’s not a freakish player in the mold of Von Miller but, internally, the Colts have used Terrell Suggs as a comparison due to their similar physicality and power. And at Notre Dame’s pro day last week, Ballard said of Nelson, “You can see his natural power. He’s a big, strong man. He’s got quick feet, good agility and balance, so you saw about everything you wanted to see. You saw it on tape, too.”

Here’s something we don’t know: Who would the Colts be inclined to pick if Barkley, Chubb and Nelson are all gone at pick No. 6?

What we learned in Orlando: The Colts have identified which prospect outside that group they most like, and they are ready and willing to pick him if this scenario plays out. We won’t speculate, but don’t rule out any position (except quarterback).

The Colts don’t seem inclined to trade down any further unless the run on quarterbacks fails to materialize.

If two of that top-four group of quarterbacks remain on the board at No. 6, the Colts do think they might garner some attractive trade offers for their pick. But they are not actively seeking to trade the pick as of right now.

“If it’s beneficial for us, and we think we have a deal that works long term, we’ll make the deal,” Ballard said. “But (No. 6) is a good spot for us.”

[VeveJones007]

There's also a mystery player who is pretty high on the Colts' draft board. I haven't been able to identify him, but I laid out the situation in there.

-Holder

[sherck]

Good article.

I don't know that I love anyone else at #6 outside of Chubb, Nelson and Barkley that cannot probably be gotten at #8 or #10 if there really is that non-run on QBs.

None of the top CBs, LBs or OTs scream "Top-10" pick. After the QBs and the big-3 are gone, then I keep seeing mostly offensive skill players in the next couple of slots.

We will see but I expect a QB-run and our chance at one of those "big 3" players.

Walk Worthy,

[VeveJones007]

Good article.

I don't know that I love anyone else at #6 outside of Chubb, Nelson and Barkley that cannot probably be gotten at #8 or #10 if there really is that non-run on QBs.

None of the top CBs, LBs or OTs scream "Top-10" pick. After the QBs and the big-3 are gone, then I keep seeing mostly offensive skill players in the next couple of slots.

We will see but I expect a QB-run and our chance at one of those "big 3" players.

Walk Worthy,

I think they’ll have a choice of 2. I’m intrigued to see which they take. I just really hope it isn’t Barkley since good RBs will be available late 2nd/early 3rd (Michel, Guice, Jones, Penny)

[Dam8610]

Faster Terrell Suggs is a good comp for Chubb. A lot of his game reminds me of Suggs, but he's faster and he plays faster.

[sherck]

Faster Terrell Suggs is a good comp for Chubb. A lot of his game reminds me of Suggs, but he's faster and he plays faster.

Suggs is no slug.

If you could tell me that he has the ability to get 7 double digit sack seasons to go along with 4 8.0-9.5 sack seasons (11 season averaging over 1/2 sack a game) then I am ALL OVER Chubb.

Man, did that come out wrong! :)

But, seriously, I hope he is still available and is the pick.

Walk Worthy,

[VeveJones007]

Suggs is no slug.

If you could tell me that he has the ability to get 7 double digit sack seasons to go along with 4 8.0-9.5 sack seasons (11 season averaging over 1/2 sack a game) then I am ALL OVER Chubb.

Man, did that come out wrong! :)

But, seriously, I hope he is still available and is the pick.

Walk Worthy,

I lost in fantasy playoffs last year because Suggs had something ridiculous like 9 hurries in a single game. He's a beast and has been for a very long time.

[Dam8610]

Suggs is no slug.

If you could tell me that he has the ability to get 7 double digit sack seasons to go along with 4 8.0-9.5 sack seasons (11 season averaging over 1/2 sack a game) then I am ALL OVER Chubb.

Man, did that come out wrong! :)

But, seriously, I hope he is still available and is the pick.

Walk Worthy,

Another way to look at it: the only reason Suggs fell to the 10th pick in the 2003 draft is because he had a bad combine. He would've been a likely Top 3 pick had he run a 4.65 like Chubb.

[FatDT]

Not to get all Dam about this but I called the Suggs comparison months ago. Surprise guys I've been a scout with the Colts all this time. And I DO think he's a no-brainer at 6.

I like Chubb as a player. The more I watch him though I don't think he's an elite pass rush prospect like Myles Garrett, Clowney, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Watt, etc. He's not an athletic freak. He's a good athlete, and he is a high effort player. I will not mind taking him. Guys like Suggs, Jared Allen, Michael Bennett, Demarcus Lawrence, Cam Jordan, are some of the best defenders on the edge in recent history and were not "freaks". But I don't think he's a no brainer at #3.

Suggs is who he reminds me of.


PS TJ Green wasn't my fault.

[Butter]

PS TJ Green wasn't my fault.
You know who would say that, the scout who sold Pagrigsono in TJ