Wtf vontae?

[omahacolt]

Didn't make trip with team. Is ruled out. Non injury related

[Racehorse]

Didn't make trip with team. Is ruled out. Non injury related

Must be a family issue.

[Hoopsdoc]

Damn Vontae.

[Spike]

Didn't make trip with team. Is ruled out. Non injury related

Not sure what the issue is with Davis, but this Pagano lead team is one of the most dysfunctional fucking teams I have ever seen.

[omahacolt]

Not sure what the issue is with Davis, but this Pagano lead team is one of the most dysfunctional fucking teams I have ever seen.

Yep

[omahacolt]

Florio is saying it is an injury. Says it is related to his previous groin injury and the colts are lying

[Spike]

Florio is saying it is an injury. Says it is related to his previous groin injury and the colts are lying

Nothing new for these fuckers. If Florio is to be believed, the Colts should learn that telling the truth is better than lying sometimes.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/04/vontae-davis-will-miss-game-due-to-lingering-groin-issue/

So why didn’t the Colts disclose it that way? Other than the obvious (i.e., it’s the Colts), it’s possible that the Colts have been failing to disclose a groin problem with Davis when they should have been, and that suddenly scratching him due to a groin injury that dates back more than two months would look fishy.

Which means that in order to cover up possible recent fudging of the injury report, the Colts have blatantly lied about the reasons for Davis staying home. Which is fitting, since many believe the Colts lied for months about the true prognosis of quarterback Andrew Luck‘s injured shoulder.

[ChoppedWood]

Lol!

[omahacolt]

if it is indeed a groin injury, why hasn't it been reported? davis hasn't missed any practices. is it bad blood about the trade deadline talk?


something is off here.

[Coltsalr]

if it is indeed a groin injury, why hasn't it been reported? davis hasn't missed any practices. is it bad blood about the trade deadline talk?


something is off here.

Is it that hard to believe that our coaching staff is just the Keystone Cops and they fucked it up because they’re idiots?

[Maniac]

if it is indeed a groin injury, why hasn't it been reported? davis hasn't missed any practices. is it bad blood about the trade deadline talk?


something is off here.

I would say that maybe they kept it quiet to try to trade him, but that no longer makes sense.

If they are in fact hiding known player injuries, then it's just another reason why there should be one league doctor on staff on each team. That official would be responsible for accurately reporting all of the team injuries. For the league to say they want injuries reported, but then allowing the teams to police themselves on it is just stupid. Either get rid of injury reports or get an unbiased medical professional on each team to do it properly.

[omahacolt]

Is it that hard to believe that our coaching staff is just the Keystone Cops and they fucked it up because they’re idiots?

that would make more sense if he hadn't been playing for weeks. also no limitations for him that i remember when it comes to practice.

i have had a groin injury and i can't imagine him being full go every practice with it.

i could buy that he reinjured it this week and they didn't report it because they are idiots.

[ChoppedWood]

that would make more sense if he hadn't been playing for weeks. also no limitations for him that i remember when it comes to practice.

i have had a groin injury and i can't imagine him being full go every practice with it.

i could buy that he reinjured it this week and they didn't report it because they are idiots.

You know inside what really happened is he demonstrated he remains Vonte Davis right? Give me a giant helping of me!

[Brylok]

if it is indeed a groin injury, why hasn't it been reported? davis hasn't missed any practices. is it bad blood about the trade deadline talk?


something is off here.
The same reason Quincy Wilson's knee suddenly came up injured: the Colts are lying. I don't believe a word that comes from Pagano and crew.

[Coltsalr]

that would make more sense if he hadn't been playing for weeks. also no limitations for him that i remember when it comes to practice.

i have had a groin injury and i can't imagine him being full go every practice with it.

i could buy that he reinjured it this week and they didn't report it because they are idiots.

It's apparently been a lingering thing he's had for awhile that he's been playing through:

@zkeefer
Long chat w/ Vontae Davis few weeks ago. Basically said groin injury is something he’s battled for years, and will “until I’m about 80.”

[omahacolt]

It's apparently been a lingering thing he's had for awhile that he's been playing through:

@zkeefer
Long chat w/ Vontae Davis few weeks ago. Basically said groin injury is something he’s battled for years, and will “until I’m about 80.”

Well then he is one tough dude. Something doesn't sit right here.

[omahacolt]

You know inside what really happened is he demonstrated he remains Vonte Davis right? Give me a giant helping of me!

what the fuck does this mean?


i think what is going on is that he got into it with the coaches and he is being punished. and his agent leaked out the injury to show he is not a locker room problem.

could be trade related.

[njcoltfan]

Well then he is one tough dude. Something doesn't sit right here.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the league got involved with how the Colts are reporting or not reporting their injuries.

[omahacolt]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the league got involved with how the Colts are reporting or not reporting their injuries.

And they should if they are not playing within the rules

[Butter]

I am quickly getting feed up with this BS. It is time for Jim to get his house in order or turn it over to his Daughters. Time to set a firm example, fire Pagano and the head of the Medical staff and move towards replacing all the training staff and docs.

[njcoltfan]

if it is indeed a groin injury, why hasn't it been reported? davis hasn't missed any practices. is it bad blood about the trade deadline talk?


something is off here.

Who is responsible for reporting injuries to the league office, the HC, GM ??

[omahacolt]

Who is responsible for reporting injuries to the league office, the HC, GM ??

I have no idea

But he has been full go at practice. Holder says he never mentions injury

[GoBigBlue88]

This organization is such a fucking disaster lol. There is no one in control of this mess.

[Brylok]

And if I'm not mistaken, Castonzo was on the list but somehow wound up at practice anyway. He then further injured himself during stretching and had to be carted off the field. Wtf are they doing over there??

[omahacolt]

And if I'm not mistaken, Castonzo was on the list but somehow wound up at practice anyway. He then further injured himself during stretching and had to be carted off the field. Wtf are they doing over there??

I read he just went back in to get a new brace or tape. Something like that

[Thorgrim]

The inmates are running the asylum.

[ChoppedWood]

We are the poster child for fucked up beyond belief.

Somewhere in a shitty dive bar in Cleveland the front office raises their glasses and joyously proclaims "at least we aren't the Indianapolis Colts"...

Fucking sad...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colts-rule-out-vontae-davis-for-week-9-but-things-get-weird-from-there/

How can Irsay just sit there and let all this shit happen?????? WTF!

[omahacolt]

i was expecting a shit year but not quite like this

[ChoppedWood]

i was expecting a shit year but not quite like this

Dude needs to step up after this fucking game, regardless of the outcome. Announce a press conference at the team QC upon return. He needs to step to the mic and succinctly state the Colts have parted ways with Chuck Pagano and the entire team of trainers and medical staff effective immediately. So and so is the interim coach, so and so will head the medical team, and anyone that has any issues from this point forward can address their concerns with Ballard and anyone that doesn't want to be here is free to seek their release as it will be immediately granted- anyone. He has to try to get this team back together ASAP and that means getting rid of all disruption and without question Chuck and the training staff are absolutely that!

This shit needs to be put to a stop NOW!

[GoBigBlue88]

As long as there is no org chart whatsoever, Irsay is off his rocker, Ballard is neutered or otherwise not fully empowered ... this is what will continue to happen.

[omahacolt]

As long as there is no org chart whatsoever, Irsay is off his rocker, Ballard is neutered or otherwise not fully empowered ... this is what will continue to happen.

there is no org chart?

[Hoopsdoc]

that would make more sense if he hadn't been playing for weeks. also no limitations for him that i remember when it comes to practice.

i have had a groin injuryand i can't imagine him being full go every practice with it.

i could buy that he reinjured it this week and they didn't report it because they are idiots.

I don't believe getting nicked by a ten dollar hookers broken tooth really counts as a groin injury.

[nate505]

I would say I'm shocked, but nothing shocks me with this clown show of a franchise.

[smitty46953]

I don't believe getting nicked by a ten dollar hookers broken tooth really counts as a groin injury.

Best answer possible !!! :cool:

[GoBigBlue88]

there is no org chart?

In name, sure. But Irsay just does whatever, Ballard can't do whatever, coaches can just make decisions willy-nilly. It's a fucking mess and there is no empowered adult running this show.

[omahacolt]

I don't believe getting nicked by a ten dollar hookers broken tooth really counts as a groin injury.

It sure does

[DrSpaceman]

I don't think Davis will be back on the team next year.

Nothing to do with what happened today. But the team does have young talent at corner

Not Desir though. He sucks

[Coltsalr]

@zkeefer
Based on what I've heard, I'm disinclined to believe Vontae Davis' injury is why he didn't make the trip. Trust me: There's more to this.



https://twitter.com/zkeefer/status/927297191303106560

[ChoppedWood]

Wow- anyone catch the Pags behind the podium just repeatedly glaring at the reporter and stating "It was a coaches decision" and the reporter just continuing to ask "but was he healthy"??? Pags looks like a man on a wire; looked like he was going to throw the podium at the dude - shit this thing is one incredibly fucking big mess!

[apballin]

He's gonna end up getting released

[Puck]

Wow- anyone catch the Pags behind the podium just repeatedly glaring at the reporter and stating "It was a coaches decision" and the reporter just continuing to ask "but was he healthy"??? Pags looks like a man on a wire; looked like he was going to throw the podium at the dude - shit this thing is one incredibly fucking big mess!

There can't be an issue. According to Dam... Pagfuck resurrected a bad player in Vontae from the Dolphins.... even though the stats disagree.

[ChoppedWood]

There can't be an issue. According to Dam... Pagfuck resurrected a bad player in Vontae from the Dolphins.... even though the stats disagree.

No, no, absolutely not any issue at all with the coaching, none.

I honestly think the potential exists at this juncture for the first case of player on coach violence. I think this has swung to the extreme side of not wanting to deal with this guy anymore. He was at one time very much a man they stood behind, now I'm not so sure given some of the things he's done they aren't a group of men ready to stand behind him- with knives drawn.

[Colts And Orioles]

No, no, absolutely not any issue at all with the coaching, none.

I honestly think the potential exists at this juncture for the first case of player-on-coach violence. I think this has swung to the extreme side of not wanting to deal with this guy anymore. He was at one time very much a man they stood behind, now I'm not so sure given some of the things he's done they aren't a group of men ready to stand behind him- with knives drawn.





o



Latrell Sprewell Suspended For Attacking, Choking Coach

(By David Steele)

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Latrell-Sprewell-Suspended-For-Attacking-Choking-2820603.php



o

[Brylok]

Wow- anyone catch the Pags behind the podium just repeatedly glaring at the reporter and stating "It was a coaches decision" and the reporter just continuing to ask "but was he healthy"??? Pags looks like a man on a wire; looked like he was going to throw the podium at the dude - shit this thing is one incredibly fucking big mess!
I fell asleep on the couch and missed the end of the game and the Pagano presser. So he said that the Vontae absence was a coaching decision and not injury related? Interesting. I think they've been lying about Quincy Wilson and, if this Vontae info is true, the case is pretty much closed. The league probably needs to look into what's going on with our injury reports and perhaps punish Chuck and company in accordance with whatever rules they're violating.

[Brylok]

I just listened to it over on .com. Chuck was definitely angry/irritated. It sounded like Mike Wells and Stephen Holder asking the questions, and it was. Holder confirmed it on Twitter.

[ChoppedWood]

I just listened to it over on .com. Chuck was definitely angry/irritated. It sounded like Mike Wells and Stephen Holder asking the questions, and it was. Holder confirmed it on Twitter.

The video of it is wild - never seen Chuck so irritable. A dude that just won a game- finally winning one where his pattern has been for that exact game to slip away- and this was his response. The dude is cracking in this pressure cooker.

In some respects again this falls at the feet of Irsay. The whole thing of not getting rid of a guy mid stream- man if there is ever a case to do it, it is here. Chuck and many many others being around this team is not in any way beneficial to the org at this point and Jim owes it to everyone- Chuck, the players, us, to cut ties now rather than just dragging this mess out for another couple months.

[ChoppedWood]

o



Latrell Sprewell Suspended For Attacking, Choking Coach

(By David Steele)

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Latrell-Sprewell-Suspended-For-Attacking-Choking-2820603.php



o

Good call C&O, forgot about good ol' Latrell.

[testcase448]

T just won a game- finally winning one where his pattern has been for that exact game to slip away- .

blind squirrel finding a nut thing.
Law of averages says he would win one of these given enough tries

[1965southpaw]

I fell asleep on the couch and missed the end of the game and the Pagano presser. So he said that the Vontae absence was a coaching decision and not injury related? Interesting. I think they've been lying about Quincy Wilson and, if this Vontae info is true, the case is pretty much closed. The league probably needs to look into what's going on with our injury reports and perhaps punish Chuck and company in accordance with whatever rules they're violating.

I heard Big Joe speculating about this yesterday and he thinks it was VDs agent floating the injury thing to the national guys to make his guy more sympathetic and less toxic when he has to market him at free agency (and to make the Colts look like a bumbling fuck). He spends a lot of time in that locker room and he's never heard any talk of lingering injury. He was also quick to point out that VD has been a good teammate, engaged and hardworking. Who knows what the truth is but anytime an organization is swirling down the tubes like the Colts is anyone can make up anything and make it stick. I can totally see an agent being opportunistic knowing that the Colts won't be resigning VD.....

[FatDT]

I heard Big Joe speculating about this yesterday and he thinks it was VDs agent floating the injury thing to the national guys to make his guy more sympathetic and less toxic when he has to market him at free agency (and to make the Colts look like a bumbling fuck). He spends a lot of time in that locker room and he's never heard any talk of lingering injury. He was also quick to point out that VD has been a good teammate, engaged and hardworking. Who knows what the truth is but anytime an organization is swirling down the tubes like the Colts is anyone can make up anything and make it stick. I can totally see an agent being opportunistic knowing that the Colts won't be resigning VD.....

Davis has never been a behavioral problem. Pagano himself identified Davis as a leader. I'm more inclined to believe he is injured and the coaches/medical staff aren't taking it seriously based on the stuff coming out about Luck, and other issues we've seen.

[GoBigBlue88]

So someone help me figure out this mess of a franchise...

Vontae is quiet, but it's put out there that he's hurt. Except team says he isn't. Holder reports that it's actually performance-related and he reacted poorly to being benched. While Vontae says it's the groin injury.

He's replaced by Pierre Desir. He's not replaced by Quincy Wilson, who is injured. Or rather, "injured".

Because you can't trust a goddamn word that comes out of the mouth of anyone in this shit show of an organization right now.

[Colt Classic]

This is why sometimes teams entertain the thought of trading a player for a draft pick that may not be equal value. It would be worth not having yet another mess to clean up, no matter who is at fault or what the root of the problem is.

[Brylok]

So someone help me figure out this mess of a franchise...

Vontae is quiet, but it's put out there that he's hurt. Except team says he isn't. Holder reports that it's actually performance-related and he reacted poorly to being benched. While Vontae says it's the groin injury.

He's replaced by Pierre Desir. He's not replaced by Quincy Wilson, who is injured. Or rather, "injured".

Because you can't trust a goddamn word that comes out of the mouth of anyone in this shit show of an organization right now.
Exactly.

[1965southpaw]

Mike Chappel on DD show today doubling down on Holders assessment of the situation. He thinks Colts have bungled the communication around this but he claims that they aren't happy with VDs performance, he was benched, and had words with his coaches (just as Holder claims). He claims there is no doubt they feel they have sufficient depth at the position (Desir's stock has risen) and won't be re-upping with him next year. All of the rest of this drama is just unnecessary bungling of a dysfunctional org.....and likely VDs agent stirring the pot with the national guys......fwiw

[rcubed]

so if it was a benching, is that a ditch effort on pagano to show ballard he buys into the competition mantra? Man I grow more tired of pags each week.

[Maniac]

Mike Chappel on DD show today doubling down on Holders assessment of the situation. He thinks Colts have bungled the communication around this but he claims that they aren't happy with VDs performance, he was benched, and had words with his coaches (just as Holder claims). He claims there is no doubt they feel they have sufficient depth at the position (Desir's stock has risen) and won't be re-upping with him next year. All of the rest of this drama is just unnecessary bungling of a dysfunctional org.....and likely VDs agent stirring the pot with the national guys......fwiw

I hope Vontae called him a fucking idiot.

[Brylok]

What are the odds of them putting Vontae on IR and effectively ending his career with the Colts? They could just say that he's hurt. Nobody checks up on their injury reports anyway.

[1965southpaw]

JMV right now said he heard VD broke the letter of some rule....didn't know what the rule was....so was made an example of and he didn't handle it well. Agrees with the local guys that the florio story is sourced from his agents throwing shade at the Colts cause he knows his days as a colt are all but over.

[omahacolt]

JMV right now said he heard VD broke the letter of some rule....didn't know what the rule was....so was made an example of and he didn't handle it well. Agrees with the local guys that the florio story is sourced from his agents throwing shade at the Colts cause he knows his days as a colt are all but over.

and that makes the most sense.


he probably questioned the coaches for making him play so much damn zone

[Johanvil]

I hope Vontae called him a fucking idiot.

Hope he called him a useless cunt who has sucked the life out of the organization for the last 4 years.

[Puck]

Shoulda traded him. Now we have nothing for him and he won't be back

[ChoppedWood]

Shoulda traded him. Now we have nothing for him and he won't be back

But, but, but, but..... Luck was gonna come back the week after all that, we were going to run the table and win the SB!

The abysmal management of this shit can be no more apparent...

[Coltsalr]

Bob Kravitz‏ @bkravitz 3m3 minutes ago
Just spoke to Vontae Davis, who is hurt emotionally and physically and very, very angry. Asked about his future in Indy, he said, "Change is good.'' Column to come.

[Brylok]

Bob Kravitz‏ @bkravitz 3m3 minutes ago
Just spoke to Vontae Davis, who is hurt emotionally and physically and very, very angry. Asked about his future in Indy, he said, "Change is good.'' Column to come.
Ouch. It doesn't much more direct than that. Thank you for your service, and good luck elsewhere, Vontae Davis. This season claims yet another victim.

[Mr. Session]

If Davis is to be believed, why do I feel like these clowns are trying to throw him under a bus so they gain some leverage in contract negotiations next year?

Now we have a "disrespectful" coach too. And he's supposed to be a player's guy.

[GoBigBlue88]

Dead horse, but: shit show organization with no empowered adult running the ship.

[Spike]

If Davis is to be believed, why do I feel like these clowns are trying to throw him under a bus so they gain some leverage in contract negotiations next year?

Now we have a "disrespectful" coach too. And he's supposed to be a player's guy.

Pagano is a phony BS artist. He's a fucking snake in the grass.

[Maniac]

I'm starting to wonder if Pagano is just hitting the self destruct button on the way out of the door.

It's time to fire him so he can't fuck up any more players or situations.

[Hoopsdoc]

Pagano is a phony BS artist. He's a fucking snake in the grass.

I've never disliked a person I don't know personally more. That dude can go fuck himself right in the ass.

He is a slimy con artist who managed to fool our drug addled owner for YEARS. I sincerely hope he never works in the NFL again.

[njcoltfan]

According to PFT Ballard told Zac Keefer that the Colts medical staff, ( I had a hard time typing that without laughing my ass off), cleared Vontae to play!! The same “ medical staff” that is handling the Luck injury, so with that being said, I’ll believe Vontae!!!

[Coltsalr]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/11/08/indianapolis-colts-cornerback-vontae-davis-baby-after-demoted-chuck-pagano-doyel/846399001/

It was apparently Pagano’s Call and him/Vontae had a big argument, per Doyel.

[FatDT]

Why is this team letting Pagano bother a player with his petty bullshit like this?

[Spike]

Why is this team letting Pagano bother a player with his petty bullshit like this?

The only good thing about all this shit is that Pagano will not be employed by the Colts next year. If he is, then Irsay needs to be put in a fucking old folks home and give his daughters the team. Then his daughters need to let Ballard run the show. This fucking franchise has become an embarrassment, sad to say.

[Dam8610]

Why is this team letting Pagano bother a player with his petty bullshit like this?

Wait, isn't this exactly what all of you have wanted? With the incessant bitching on this board about Pagano being "too soft" on players and being a "player's coach", I would expect Pagano's actions in this case to be praised, like Doyel does in his article. I guess this is just further evidence that most Colts fans will find a way to blame Pagano for any problem regardless of what the problem actually is.

[ChoppedWood]

Wait, isn't this exactly what all of you have wanted? With the incessant bitching on this board about Pagano being "too soft" on players and being a "player's coach", I would expect Pagano's actions in this case to be praised, like Doyel does in his article. I guess this is just further evidence that most Colts fans will find a way to blame Pagano for any problem regardless of what the problem actually is.

You are familiar with the old adage "a dollar short and a day late right"?

Chuck is suddenly going to flex his muscle and lay down the law after YEARS of not doing it and that stain having permeated the entire fabric of the org?

Fuck Chuck- this shouldn't even be in his court because he shouldn't be here right now!

[Coltsalr]

@adamschefter
After seeking second medical opinions, Colts CB Vontae Davis is opting to undergo season-ending groin surgery, per source.


And so ends his career in Indy.

[rcubed]

Too bad, he played very for us. Regardless of this situation I wonder if he would have been resigned anyway. Not good to go on a sour note...

[NextManUp]

@adamschefter
After seeking second medical opinions, Colts CB Vontae Davis is opting to undergo season-ending groin surgery, per source.


And so ends his career in Indy.

I wonder if those second opinions were from his grandma? I actually like Vontae, hate to see him go out like this.

[omahacolt]

Wait, isn't this exactly what all of you have wanted? With the incessant bitching on this board about Pagano being "too soft" on players and being a "player's coach", I would expect Pagano's actions in this case to be praised, like Doyel does in his article. I guess this is just further evidence that most Colts fans will find a way to blame Pagano for any problem regardless of what the problem actually is.

No

This is absolutely not how things should go in regards to one of your best players

[njcoltfan]

@adamschefter
After seeking second medical opinions, Colts CB Vontae Davis is opting to undergo season-ending groin surgery, per source.


And so ends his career in Indy.

see what happens when you go to real doctors, you get a real diagnosis!! So much for "coaches decision". Pagano, the lying bastard that he is, can't be fired fast enough,

[ChoppedWood]

@adamschefter
After seeking second medical opinions, Colts CB Vontae Davis is opting to undergo season-ending groin surgery, per source.


And so ends his career in Indy.

Now, now, now--- if Jim Irsay isn't in a state of basic cognition capable of understanding just how damning this is and the absolute MANDATE it creates for firing Chuck immediately...

If a dude is willing to go to the length of getting surgery to throw shade at the coach...wow says a lot about the problems with the coach.

OR

If the dude was really hurt THAT bad and the coach was on tv following a game just repeatedly stating "coach's decision"... even more wow (you insolent fucking pig headed asshole...)


FIRE CHUCK NOW!

[FatDT]

This is really fucked up. You don't just fake surgery. You don't choose to end your season and have surgery unless you are injured and... need surgery.

Was the argument between the two about Davis saying "I'm injured and your not taking it seriously" and Pagano saying "You're fine, you can get your groin fixed later, we need you to play"? Seriously, WTF is going on here?

[GoBigBlue88]

I have a feeling this ends up costing the Colts at least one draft pick.

[YDFL Commish]

He's now been released.

[GoBigBlue88]

Well, at least you can say for an absolute shit team, they're entertaining.

[njcoltfan]

Well, at least you can say for an absolute shit team, they're entertaining.

Just how much more of this shit is Irsay going to put up with?? Pagano is just fucking up this whole organization, he has to know that, doesn’t he ??

[Chaka]

He's now been released.

I like Vontae and appreciate what he's done for the Colts since arriving here, but I'm with Ballard on this one. You can't have a malcontent hanging around and trashing the team in the media at every turn. That being said, I'm sure there's lots more to this story than we can see.

[OneVoice]

Well, at least you can say for an absolute shit team, they're entertaining.

I say keep this shit coming / the more the better, quicker Pagano gets fired.

[Brylok]

What are the odds of them putting Vontae on IR and effectively ending his career with the Colts? They could just say that he's hurt. Nobody checks up on their injury reports anyway.
Looks like I was halfway right. I didn't think they would outright release him though. smh. So long, Vontae. Thanks for being our best defensive player.
FIRE CHUCK PAGANO!

[Thorgrim]

I like Vontae and appreciate what he's done for the Colts since arriving here, but I'm with Ballard on this one. You can't have a malcontent hanging around and trashing the team in the media at every turn. That being said, I'm sure there's lots more to this story than we can see.

It's ridiculous that they hold a player accountable with an immediate consequence but refuse to hold a coach to the same standard. Seriously, whose presence is more damaging to the team, a locker room cancer or an utter buffoon on the sidelines? It's like Irsay can't see the forest for the trees.

[OneVoice]

It's ridiculous that they hold a player accountable with an immediate consequence but refuse to hold a coach to the same standard. Seriously, whose presence is more damaging to the team, a locker room cancer or an utter buffoon on the sidelines? It's like Irsay can't see the forest for the trees.

This is the most infuriating aspect of Pagano's job status.

Everyone is held accountable but him.

[1965southpaw]

This is the most infuriating aspect of Pagano's job status.

Everyone is held accountable but him.

Before this week I would have said it's 95% likely Irsay waits til the end of the season to fire Pags. After this weeks shit fest (which in all fairness wasn't all on Pags....the latest Luck drama was manufactured by Kravitz and Dan Patrick)....I think it's at least 50% likely he gets canned on the bye week, especially if we get raped by the bumble bees.

[HoosierinFL]

This is really fucked up. You don't just fake surgery. You don't choose to end your season and have surgery unless you are injured and... need surgery.

Was the argument between the two about Davis saying "I'm injured and your not taking it seriously" and Pagano saying "You're fine, you can get your groin fixed later, we need you to play"? Seriously, WTF is going on here?

This kinda sounds like the Kevin Wilson situation at IU. I think Pagano might only be a players coach when guys are playing well and winning. We saw how quickly he threw Luck under the bus (was it last year or the year before?)

[Chromeburn]

I think Chuck is starting to feel the pressure and senses the end is coming. With a likely slaughter at the hands of a real team this weekend pressure is mounting. I just hope we can find an upgrade when it is all said and done.

[kitekrazy]

I think Chuck is starting to feel the pressure and senses the end is coming. With a likely slaughter at the hands of a real team this weekend pressure is mounting. I just hope we can find an upgrade when it is all said and done.

Still left with 2 clueless coordinators. If think firing them at this point doesn't change things because the replacements will repeat the same insanity that doesn't work.

[apballin]

He's gonna end up getting released

Oh look at this from page 4 you motherfuckers!!!

[Dam8610]

This is the most infuriating aspect of Pagano's job status.

Everyone is held accountable but him.

Used to be "No one is held accountable", now this. You guys really need to pick a position and stick with it.

[omahacolt]

Used to be "No one is held accountable", now this. You guys really need to pick a position and stick with it.

Wrong. Some people are held accountable and others aren't for no good reason whatsoever

[Brylok]

Used to be "No one is held accountable", now this. You guys really need to pick a position and stick with it.
The position is: Pagano and his staff suck balls and need replaced. What follows after that are just examples.

[Dam8610]

Wrong. Some people are held accountable and others aren't for no good reason whatsoever

Look at posts from last season. Back then, your collective concern was that there wasn't accountability. That was even the case earlier this season as I recall. This is my biggest problem, there's no consistency to your argument. Every time something is addressed, all you do is move the goalposts.

[Dam8610]

The position is: Pagano and his staff suck balls and need replaced. What follows after that are just examples.

I don't accept your fiat-based argument. Evidence is required.

[albany ed]

The way I see it, when Ballard was hired, the decision was made to keep Pagano for the 2017 season and let Ballard assess the team and take needed time to get the right coach to come in at the end of the season. I'm thinking that Ballard already has his man hired verbally and he and that man are assessing the current crop of Colts players and planning the 2018 season. Hopefully, they'll have a healthy Luck to get it started in the right way. I also think that at least 40% of the roster will be gone before next year. Players now are on notice that how they do for the rest of this year will determine if they're with the club to begin next year. Even though they lost last week, I thought I saw players giving a little more than before. Maybe they realize that they're playing for a chance to be here next year. Pagano is a lame duck and I think the players know it. They're no longer playing for him, they're playing for their football lives. They still suck, but at least they're more entertaining.

[Brylok]

I don't accept your fiat-based argument. Evidence is required.
I've watched the games. Who am I gonna trust? You or my lying eyes? I've never piled on you, but jeez dude, enough already.

[Coltsalr]

Look at posts from last season. Back then, your collective concern was that there wasn't accountability. That was even the case earlier this season as I recall. This is my biggest problem, there's no consistency to your argument. Every time something is addressed, all you do is move the goalposts.

It's not like the argument has shifted to EVERYONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND WE HATE THAT.

Guys like TJ Green, Kamar Aiken, the whole OL, etc are clearly NOT held accountable even still.

So now he's selectively choosing where to dole out accountability. As opposed to not doing it at all. Which is even worse.

That's not shifting the argument. That's calling it as we see 'em. As opposed to just fantasizing about Pagano.

[Dam8610]

I've watched the games. Who am I gonna trust? You or my lying eyes? I've never piled on you, but jeez dude, enough already.

I've watched the games as well, and we have differing opinions. I'm fine with leaving it at agree to disagree, but so much opinion around here is stated as fact.

It's not like the argument has shifted to EVERYONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND WE HATE THAT.

Guys like TJ Green, Kamar Aiken, the whole OL, etc are clearly NOT held accountable even still.

So now he's selectively choosing where to dole out accountability. As opposed to not doing it at all. Which is even worse.

That's not shifting the argument. That's calling it as we see 'em. As opposed to just fantasizing about Pagano.

It is moving the goalposts.

Most Colts fans: "We don't like that Pagano doesn't hold players accountable."

Pagano: *Starts clearly and unmistakably holding players accountable*

Most Colts fans: "We don't like the way in which Pagano is holding players accountable."

Logically, that is textbook moving the goalposts fallacy.

[omahacolt]

Look at posts from last season. Back then, your collective concern was that there wasn't accountability. That was even the case earlier this season as I recall. This is my biggest problem, there's no consistency to your argument. Every time something is addressed, all you do is move the goalposts.

your problem should be the many ways pagano is the worst coach in franchise history.

not that we have many different ways to point that out.

dipshit

[omahacolt]

I've watched the games as well, and we have differing opinions. I'm fine with leaving it at agree to disagree, but so much opinion around here is stated as fact.



It is moving the goalposts.

Most Colts fans: "We don't like that Pagano doesn't hold players accountable."

Pagano: *Starts clearly and unmistakably holding players accountable*

Most Colts fans: "We don't like the way in which Pagano is holding players accountable."

Logically, that is textbook moving the goalposts fallacy.
moving the goal posts like

"paganos hands were tied by grigson"

to now him doing the same shit without grigson

"grigson and ballard are terrible. it isn't pagano"

[Dam8610]

moving the goal posts like

"paganos hands were tied by grigson"

to now him doing the same shit without grigson

"grigson and ballard are terrible. it isn't pagano"

I haven't been critical of Ballard. He's actually made good moves for the most part thus far, but no GM could've undone all of Grigson's damage in one off-season. And no coach could've taken this roster, especially with no Luck, to the playoffs. That's not moving the goalposts, that's being aware of the talent on the roster.

[omahacolt]

I haven't been critical of Ballard. He's actually made good moves for the most part thus far, but no GM could've undone all of Grigson's damage in one off-season. And no coach could've taken this roster, especially with no Luck, to the playoffs. That's not moving the goalposts, that's being aware of the talent on the roster.

No

That is making excuses for Pagano

[Brylok]

No

That is making excuses for Pagano
He's schticking to the proshesh.

[Pez]

I've watched the games as well, and we have differing opinions. I'm fine with leaving it at agree to disagree, but so much opinion around here is stated as fact.



It is moving the goalposts.

Most Colts fans: "We don't like that Pagano doesn't hold players accountable."

Pagano: *Starts clearly and unmistakably holding players accountable*

Most Colts fans: "We don't like the way in which Pagano is holding players accountable."

Logically, that is textbook moving the goalposts fallacy.

ok cool, so you're saying that:

Vontae told him to eat a bag of dicks and he was held accountable...
Wilson wasn't a good special teams player and was held accountable...

Pagano cant call a timeout or understand a challenge flag and crickets...
Chud cant plan for more than 1.5 quarters a game, crickets...
Green is a horrible player and has drawn incredibly stupid penalties...
Dontae Moncrief is mailing it in, crickets....
Aiken is still horrible, crickets...
Brisset holds the ball far too long before he throws it to aiken, crickets...
Philbin and Gilbert watch our OL get manhandled week after week (Gilbert for all six of Luck's seasons), crickets....



Pagano: *Starts clearly and unmistakably holding players accountable*

Where is the clear and unmistakable part?

[Brylok]

ok cool, so you're saying that:

Dontae Moncrief is mailing it in, crickets

I'm not as down on Moncrief as most people. I think the problem is Chud's offensive is so bad it doesn't give him much of a chance to make plays. TY Hilton can barely make any plays when Brissett is overwhelmed and has to check down to Doyle and Aiken so much. Or just gets sacked. If the money is right, I'd resign Crief. When Chud is gone, the problems will fix themselves.

[omahacolt]

I'm not as down on Moncrief as most people. I think the problem is Chud's offensive is so bad it doesn't give him much of a chance to make plays. TY Hilton can barely make any plays when Brissett is overwhelmed and has to check down to Doyle and Aiken so much. Or just gets sacked. If the money is right, I'd resign Crief. When Chud is gone, the problems will fix themselves.

moncrief got demoted for a shit sandwich (aiken)


i am not down on him either. except for his shit celebrations that he should stop

[ChoppedWood]

I'm not as down on Moncrief as most people. I think the problem is Chud's offensive is so bad it doesn't give him much of a chance to make plays. TY Hilton can barely make any plays when Brissett is overwhelmed and has to check down to Doyle and Aiken so much. Or just gets sacked. If the money is right, I'd resign Crief. When Chud is gone, the problems will fix themselves.

His money situation should be coming our direction now- which is a big plus. The guy has really good talent and if his head is right, you keep him for what his play will warrant on the market, should be a nice team friendly contract.

[Racehorse]

moncrief got demoted for a shit sandwich (aiken)


i am not down on him either. except for his shit celebrations that he should stop

If by shit sandwich you mean bread made of shit holding meat made of shit, you would be absolutely correct. If you meant actual bread with shit, you would be wrong, but headed in the right direction.