Will Carroll- JUST NOW SAID--- JIM IRSAY WAS LIED TO!

[ChoppedWood]

Boy is this filled with intrigue. He just stated to Q&S that Jim's fury is due to being lied to about this whole thing.

He flatly stated this was within the medical department which simply LIED to Jim. They kept telling him Luck was okay and progressing as anticipated. It apparently took Luck stepping forward and telling Jim the rehab was not working for this to reach the boiling point of him going for these additional opinions! What a disgrace!

He said at least one 2nd opinion stated another surgery will be required!

Given this incredibly ridiculous hatchet job- does anyone know if Chuck has a brother that works as a medical professional for the Colts???? Man you couldn't script a more fucked up organization than this poop fest!

[rcubed]

wait, I thought jim was lying to us.... now I am confused....



.

[Brylok]

I don't believe it. Irsay is trying to cover his ass.

[njcoltfan]

wait, I thought jim was lying to us.... now I am confused....



.

I’m more concerned that one opinion mentioned another surgery might be needed???

[ChoppedWood]

I’m more concerned that one opinion mentioned another surgery might be needed???

Yeah that's a real party pooper for sure!

[omahacolt]

I’m more concerned that one opinion mentioned another surgery might be needed???

heard the nfl doc or whatever he calls himself on sirius today and he talked about this is a good idea.

he said an exploratory scope is what he would recommend based on that an mri is 85% accurate but a scope will tell you everything. if it is scar tissue then they can help that. and this or that but it would reveal if there is still damage that needs to be dealt with. he said with shutting him down now, this early, it is ideal to do this sooner rather than later and said that if in a month the soreness doesn't go away, we might see it happen.

he also said that he isn't his doctor. and without knowing all the details, that is just a suggestion.

i am paraphrasing of course

[omahacolt]

Boy is this filled with intrigue. He just stated to Q&S that Jim's fury is due to being lied to about this whole thing.

He flatly stated this was within the medical department which simply LIED to Jim. They kept telling him Luck was okay and progressing as anticipated. It apparently took Luck stepping forward and telling Jim the rehab was not working for this to reach the boiling point of him going for these additional opinions! What a disgrace!

He said at least one 2nd opinion stated another surgery will be required!

Given this incredibly ridiculous hatchet job- does anyone know if Chuck has a brother that works as a medical professional for the Colts???? Man you couldn't script a more fucked up organization than this poop fest!

this doesn't make sense.

1) did they sugar coat info to irsay? maybe. who knows? is irsay irate? again. who knows? local media has fucked up plenty of stories over the last few years.

2) Luck told him the rehab wasn't working and then he allowed Luck to get other opinions? is that what was insinuated? because that sounds fucking retarded. Luck doesnt strike me as the type of guy to wait around when he has the resources to at the very least go seek guidance from dr andrews or whoever he deems necessary. especially hearing how uncomfortable this is to deal with from people that have had issues like this.

3) i really dont understand why fans are so pissed at irsay or the colts for this. did irsay falsely state he would be ready? yeah. but who fucking cares? the dude was wrong. rehabbing surgery isn't an exact science and he obviously had issues post surgery that wasn't expected.

[ChoppedWood]

this doesn't make sense.

1) did they sugar coat info to irsay? maybe. who knows? is irsay irate? again. who knows? local media has fucked up plenty of stories over the last few years.

2) Luck told him the rehab wasn't working and then he allowed Luck to get other opinions? is that what was insinuated? because that sounds fucking retarded. Luck doesnt strike me as the type of guy to wait around when he has the resources to at the very least go seek guidance from dr andrews or whoever he deems necessary. especially hearing how uncomfortable this is to deal with from people that have had issues like this.

3) i really dont understand why fans are so pissed at irsay or the colts for this. did irsay falsely state he would be ready? yeah. but who fucking cares? the dude was wrong. rehabbing surgery isn't an exact science and he obviously had issues post surgery that wasn't expected.

Okay, going off memory here. Carroll was pissed off at whichever it is- I think it is Query because yesterday he apparently challenged Will's statement on Facebook yesterday that Irsay was blindsided by this. So the conversation had a hostile tone to start and WC stated without any inference- "The report that Jim Irsay is seething are 100% true". He then went on to state that he wanted to be clear- "Jim Irsay was lied to".

JQ then questioned him and said by who, what is the name. WC said "I am not going to name names", then JQ asked if it was Ballard or if it were on the medical team and he very quickly responded, "no, it was not Ballard, it is medical and there are going to be repercussions from this". They then bantered back and forth about what had been misrepresented. That's when he said that Irsay was not given accurate information about how the rehab had been progressing.

That's when he said that for whatever reason Jim was not being told about the lack of responsiveness to the rehab process. That it finally reached a point where Andrew Luck said "This isn't working, I need to call Drew Brees" and then he ended up seeing Dr. Andrews in Birmingham.

JQ asked if this was a matter of the doctor that did the surgery failing or if this was inside the Colts organzation's medical staff post receovery. WC sort of dodged this. He said that while AL went to his own Dr. out west in situations such as this the team medical staff will be present throughout- even at the surgery (to me this is to imply the surgery was not an issue, it's something after it - which would only make sense that "there will be repercussions" as it's not like Jim can fire a Dr that isn't on staff...).

JQ then asked if this was a case of negligence (I assume trying to flesh out if the repercussion is going to be a lawsuit???)- WC said he was not going to make any type of statement about negligence because he did not know all the details.

It is around that point that he said Luck finally sought these 2nd opinions. He said they are all over the place, some saying he just needs to throw to loosen it up and there is one opinion that a 2nd surgery is necessary.

He then made a cryptic statement about there being a set back over the summer that he was unsure who in the organization was aware of (this is something long rumored and it sure seemed like WC certainly has confirmation there was a problem as early as this summer- and seems to imply that perhaps Irsay was kept in the dark about that event...).

Finally JQ asked if it were at all possible that Luck could actually be at the tail end of the recovery period which can have a range out to 1 year. WC said "Absolutely not" and went on to detail the surgery type and how it was done- and then sort of fired a kill shot by stating "Jay Cutler had it, Cam had it, and they are playing, we've had hundreds of MLB players have it, and they are back in 4-6 months".

If any of this is to be believed, then to me, I hear the belief is the surgery was not a problem but the issue has resulted from something that has happened by way of the Colts medical staff approach to his rehab. It sounds to me like he is trying to state that they did something wrong in mid summer- well before the season, and it fucked the guy up and finally Andrew has conceded that he can't throw the football at present (did they have him throwing too early and the cartilage ripped off the anchors???). It sounds like they then went into CYA mode and tried to string Jim along hoping that it would remedy itself and it would all just be chalked up to his recovery taking just a little longer than anticipated. Much like we've relied on Luck to hide deficiencies it sure sounds like the med staff was hoping Luck would hide their deficiencies with his pure grit.

IF, IF, IF this pans out this way- what a tragedy, and what a reflection on just how badly this organization fucks things up over the last couple years!

[Dewey 5]

heard the nfl doc or whatever he calls himself on sirius today and he talked about this is a good idea.

he said an exploratory scope is what he would recommend based on that an mri is 85% accurate but a scope will tell you everything. if it is scar tissue then they can help that. and this or that but it would reveal if there is still damage that needs to be dealt with. he said with shutting him down now, this early, it is ideal to do this sooner rather than later and said that if in a month the soreness doesn't go away, we might see it happen.

he also said that he isn't his doctor. and without knowing all the details, that is just a suggestion.

i am paraphrasing of course

Heard the same interview. Dr. David Chao.

[Thorgrim]

I hope a quick determination will be made regarding the need for additional surgery. If necessary, I would want it done without delay since Luck's response to any procedures will have an enormous impact on how the organization approaches next years draft.

[YDFL Commish]

Okay, going off memory here. Carroll was pissed off at whichever it is- I think it is Query because yesterday he apparently challenged Will's statement on Facebook yesterday that Irsay was blindsided by this. So the conversation had a hostile tone to start and WC stated without any inference- "The report that Jim Irsay is seething are 100% true". He then went on to state that he wanted to be clear- "Jim Irsay was lied to".

JQ then questioned him and said by who, what is the name. WC said "I am not going to name names", then JQ asked if it was Ballard or if it were on the medical team and he very quickly responded, "no, it was not Ballard, it is medical and there are going to be repercussions from this". They then bantered back and forth about what had been misrepresented. That's when he said that Irsay was not given accurate information about how the rehab had been progressing.

That's when he said that for whatever reason Jim was not being told about the lack of responsiveness to the rehab process. That it finally reached a point where Andrew Luck said "This isn't working, I need to call Drew Brees" and then he ended up seeing Dr. Andrews in Birmingham.

JQ asked if this was a matter of the doctor that did the surgery failing or if this was inside the Colts organzation's medical staff post receovery. WC sort of dodged this. He said that while AL went to his own Dr. out west in situations such as this the team medical staff will be present throughout- even at the surgery (to me this is to imply the surgery was not an issue, it's something after it - which would only make sense that "there will be repercussions" as it's not like Jim can fire a Dr that isn't on staff...).

JQ then asked if this was a case of negligence (I assume trying to flesh out if the repercussion is going to be a lawsuit???)- WC said he was not going to make any type of statement about negligence because he did not know all the details.

It is around that point that he said Luck finally sought these 2nd opinions. He said they are all over the place, some saying he just needs to throw to loosen it up and there is one opinion that a 2nd surgery is necessary.

He then made a cryptic statement about there being a set back over the summer that he was unsure who in the organization was aware of (this is something long rumored and it sure seemed like WC certainly has confirmation there was a problem as early as this summer- and seems to imply that perhaps Irsay was kept in the dark about that event...).

Finally JQ asked if it were at all possible that Luck could actually be at the tail end of the recovery period which can have a range out to 1 year. WC said "Absolutely not" and went on to detail the surgery type and how it was done- and then sort of fired a kill shot by stating "Jay Cutler had it, Cam had it, and they are playing, we've had hundreds of MLB players have it, and they are back in 4-6 months".

If any of this is to be believed, then to me, I hear the belief is the surgery was not a problem but the issue has resulted from something that has happened by way of the Colts medical staff approach to his rehab. It sounds to me like he is trying to state that they did something wrong in mid summer- well before the season, and it fucked the guy up and finally Andrew has conceded that he can't throw the football at present (did they have him throwing too early and the cartilage ripped off the anchors???). It sounds like they then went into CYA mode and tried to string Jim along hoping that it would remedy itself and it would all just be chalked up to his recovery taking just a little longer than anticipated. Much like we've relied on Luck to hide deficiencies it sure sounds like the med staff was hoping Luck would hide their deficiencies with his pure grit.

IF, IF, IF this pans out this way- what a tragedy, and what a reflection on just how badly this organization fucks things up over the last couple years!

I'm not in any way trying to defend the Colts medical staff, who I have always considered to be a bunch of buffoons.

But....

Isn't it entirely possible that Luck was stubborn (yes, history has proven that Luck can be stubborn), and said "fuck this" and started throwing too early on his own accord.

[Indiana V2]

I'm not in any way trying to defend the Colts medical staff, who I have always considered to be a bunch of buffoons.

But....

Isn't it entirely possible that Luck was stubborn (yes, history has proven that Luck can be stubborn), and said "fuck this" and started throwing too early on his own accord.

No.

[Spike]

I'm not in any way trying to defend the Colts medical staff, who I have always considered to be a bunch of buffoons.

But....

Isn't it entirely possible that Luck was stubborn (yes, history has proven that Luck can be stubborn), and said "fuck this" and started throwing too early on his own accord.

I don't believe Luck is that dumb.

[Gimmick]

Edge James blew out his ****ing knee and while still pro-bowl caliber, was never the same player again. It took the Colts WEEKS to decide to put him on IR.

Marvin Harrison had basically a season ending knee injury and was never the same player again. The Colts kept him on the roster all season so he could come back and fumble and get benched in a playoff game.

Peyton Manning's neck was destroyed. He had a billion surgeries. The Colts kept him on the roster all year so he could maybe come back at the end of the season and his noodle arm could take over for Curtis Painter in the red zone. Think about that for a minute.

The Colts have a looooooooooong history of ****ed up injury situations with star players. You can blame different medical staff over 20something years or you can start looking at the guy who writes the checks.

Not hard to figure out where the problem is if you ask me.

[ChoppedWood]

Edge James blew out his ****ing knee and while still pro-bowl caliber, was never the same player again. It took the Colts WEEKS to decide to put him on IR.

Marvin Harrison had basically a season ending knee injury and was never the same player again. The Colts kept him on the roster all season so he could come back and fumble and get benched in a playoff game.

Peyton Manning's neck was destroyed. He had a billion surgeries. The Colts kept him on the roster all year so he could maybe come back at the end of the season and his noodle arm could take over for Curtis Painter in the red zone. Think about that for a minute.

The Colts have a looooooooooong history of ****ed up injury situations with star players. You can blame different medical staff over 20something years or you can start looking at the guy who writes the checks.

Not hard to figure out where the problem is if you ask me.

THIS!

And lest anyone forget- the Bob Sanders fucking scam of all scams where BP was trotted out every single fucking week to tell Bob Lamey (dude needs to put to pasture when all the rest of these assclowns are shown the door) that Bob could be back as early as the next weekend only to finally- after seriously like 1.5 years it be discovered that they had to fucking use a Dremel and drill holes in his fucking knee cap hoping to get cartilage to grow!!!

FORGET LYING HILARY, WHAT ABOUT LYING JIMMY! Fucking scamball asshole!

[rcubed]

THIS!

And lest anyone forget- the Bob Sanders fucking scam of all scams where BP was trotted out every single fucking week to tell Bob Lamey (dude needs to put to pasture when all the rest of these assclowns are shown the door) that Bob could be back as early as the next weekend only to finally- after seriously like 1.5 years it be discovered that they had to fucking use a Dremel and drill holes in his fucking knee cap hoping to get cartilage to grow!!!

FORGET LYING HILARY, WHAT ABOUT LYING JIMMY! Fucking scamball asshole!
31 other teams, pick one.

[ChoppedWood]

31 other teams, pick one.

No, I'll stick with this one, and continue to call bullshit where there is bullshit, and right now it stinks like hell.

[Racehorse]

31 other teams, pick one.

Methinks he already had, probably a team that cheats.

[ChoppedWood]

Methinks he already had, probably a team that cheats.

Or the one with the owner that trusts his prized asset to people unqualified to mow lawns or untangle yarn balls.

[rcubed]

No, I'll stick with this one, and continue to call bullshit where there is bullshit, and right now it stinks like hell.
There’s a difference between calling BS and spewing BS. You are doing the later.

[ChoppedWood]

They just showed the clip of the play that is believed to have been the genesis= week 3 2015 against the Tits.

Afterwards they show him throw a TD and to win that game and Hassleback goes to congratulate him with a little bump and he winces and clearly says "Don't do that".

Mortensen just said something positive- "the consistent message from the independent MRI's= labrum is anatomically correct".

He went on to state he's talked to everyone in the world about the situation with the pain and stiffness he experienced as he started ramping up the throwing rehab and the consensus belief is that's tied to the additional damage done to the shoulder by waiting essentially 2 years to repair the damage from when it first happened.

So, if this is accurate, the question is, who's to blame for waiting so long to go under the knife? It certainly seems as though the injury was severe in Sept 2015 but SOMEHOW (whether by his refusal to be evaluated sufficiently [I will go back to all the comments we all made about how the dude was "OFF" a LOT during that time--- and we are just fucking fans] or by way of team officials not wanting to have it evaluated- we did just come off a magical run to the AFCCG a few months prior and were projected by many to be the lock for the SB, or by a combination of both factors...) the injury was neglected hen it should have been immediately addressed and as a result his shoulder got even more fucked up over roughly 2 years of abuse.

Now round this all the way to the comments about Irsay being LIED TO- perhaps all the way back in Sept 2015 the doc fucked this up, missed this on an MRI, and even though we could all with laymen's eyes see Luck was not on his game, didn't go under the covers on this until such time as Luck said "hey, something's fucked up in here"- which could have been at the end of the year last year... if that's the scenario, then hell yes Irsay has every fucking reason to be furious.