Luck to IR

[Racehorse]

Will happen today

[smitty46953]

Intro: Andrew Luck, who underwent surgery to his throwing shoulder in January and had been trying to work his way back to the field since, will be placed on Injured Reserve today, officially ending his 2017 season, the team announced

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-To-Place-Andrew-Luck-On-Injured-Reserve/91f39778-f534-4ca4-8604-aac9767db261?sf137475162=1

[HoosierinFL]

watching the live press conference from Ballard on FB now. well, the season is a loss anyway. 2011 all over again. I hope we clean up in the draft.

[Brylok]

Great. The second half of this season and an entire off-season of Andrew Luck speculation, theories, and etc. It's going to be brutal.

[smitty46953]

I wouldn't put him out there with that line, don't blame them a bit ... :cool:

[smitty46953]

Eagles signed QB Nate Sudfeld off their practice squad.

According to NFL Network's Mike Garafolo, another team (we're now hearing it was the Colts) forced the Eagles' hand by trying to poach him off the practice squad. A sixth-round pick out of Indiana in 2016, Sudfeld will handle third-string duties behind starter Carson Wentz and backup Nick Foles. Nov 1 - 5:32 PM


Source: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

:cool:

[GoBigBlue88]

Jim Irsay let his franchise QB have a 3-year injury that resulted in this.

Jim Irsay needs to not run the Colts.

[testcase448]

Lamar Jackson*, QB, Louisville
Height: 6-3. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.57.
Projected Round (2018): 1.
11/2/17: In 2017, Jackson has completed 60 percent of his passes for 2,808 yards with 18 touchdowns and six interceptions. He is averaging 6.3 yards per carry this season for 1,029 yards and 14 rushing touchdowns on the ground.


Read more: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php#ixzz4xIjx45Qx

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php#1j5ic8s3wUcPavFP.99

[FatDT]

Jim Irsay let his franchise QB have a 3-year injury that resulted in this.

Jim Irsay needs to not run the Colts.

Agree. Remember his plan to step back and let his daughters take over once the transition from Polian to Grigson/Pagano was done? He should revisit that plan. Hiring Grigson and Pagano were terrible decisions. He then doubled down by re-signing both. Then he fucked up some more by waiting too long to fire Grigson and hire Ballard. So that he was forced to fuck up some more by not firing Pagano.

We were in perfect position to dominate the South and go on a decade long playoff run, but Irsay hired two inexperienced losers to run the team. Luck suffered through years of a terrible line, an incongruent offensive system that didn't get better by changing OCs, a coaching staff that doesn't play its best players, and a front office that couldn't build a quality roster. And now the cornerstone franchise QB might be broken. Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano did their best to David Carr their meal ticket out of the league.

Fuck this is frustrating.

[GoBigBlue88]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/02/bill-polian-faults-the-colts-for-not-protecting-andrew-luck/

“This new staff came in and said, ‘We’re going to be the toughest guys on the block. We’re going to get big road graders, run, stop the run.’ In Indianapolis? With Andrew Luck? In a division where you play 10 games in perfect weather every year? The team you have to beat is Tom Brady and the New England Patriots? And you want to come in and play like you’re playing in the AFC North? That contributed to it because you didn’t have a pass protecting line,” Polian said.



Polian is so, so correct. It just highlights the insanity of ever hiring Pagano and pissing on "Star Wars numbers" in the first place. And the fact we got exactly what we always were going to get as a result.

Which isn't to be read as hating Pagano. But hating what Irsay did with the direction he took this franchise.

[Racehorse]

This does NOT mean Luck’s career is over. Some of you are “half empty “ guys, I guess. I see this as a “reset” button on the franchise, starting with a reset on fixing Luck. Instead of Luck working on getting back out there ASAP, he can now work on physical therapy to strengthen and loosen up scar tissue and then work to get back into game shape. It also means we are playing for developing the younger kids and draft status. It really tanking, but letting Chuckture take its course. We may win one more game and finish with pick five in the draft. That should net us something good to add to some promising pieces picked up lately. The future is actually bright, not dark.

[DrSpaceman]

Best decision. There was no point in him returning this year anyway.

[VeveJones007]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/02/bill-polian-faults-the-colts-for-not-protecting-andrew-luck/

“This new staff came in and said, ‘We’re going to be the toughest guys on the block. We’re going to get big road graders, run, stop the run.’ In Indianapolis? With Andrew Luck? In a division where you play 10 games in perfect weather every year? The team you have to beat is Tom Brady and the New England Patriots? And you want to come in and play like you’re playing in the AFC North? That contributed to it because you didn’t have a pass protecting line,” Polian said.



Polian is so, so correct. It just highlights the insanity of ever hiring Pagano and pissing on "Star Wars numbers" in the first place. And the fact we got exactly what we always were going to get as a result.

Which isn't to be read as hating Pagano. But hating what Irsay did with the direction he took this franchise.

All of this was Irsay’s fault. This wasn’t his father’s NFL. He hired a GM he could handle and play armchair GM.

[VeveJones007]

This does NOT mean Luck’s career is over. Some of you are “half empty “ guys, I guess. I see this as a “reset” button on the franchise, starting with a reset on fixing Luck. Instead of Luck working on getting back out there ASAP, he can now work on physical therapy to strengthen and loosen up scar tissue and then work to get back into game shape. It also means we are playing for developing the younger kids and draft status. It really tanking, but letting Chuckture take its course. We may win one more game and finish with pick five in the draft. That should net us something good to add to some promising pieces picked up lately. The future is actually bright, not dark.

Oh I’m definitely here while also recognizing that Irsay is an idiot for putting the franchise in this place. This will be a blessing over the next 8 years.

Luck will be back. They’ll add a stud pass rusher or LT (maybe both) in this draft. They’ll get a new coaching staff. Things will turn around by 2019 at the latest, but I think playoffs in 2018 are within reach.

[albany ed]

Andrew Luck will not be walking through that door fellas. This is Jacoby's team now. It's time for the team to realize this is as good as it'll get.

[njcoltfan]

Oh I’m definitely here while also recognizing that Irsay is an idiot for putting the franchise in this place. This will be a blessing over the next 8 years.

Luck will be back. They’ll add a stud pass rusher or LT (maybe both) in this draft. They’ll get a new coaching staff. Things will turn around by 2019 at the latest, but I think playoffs in 2018 are within reach.
I hope to hell you're right. What I don't want to hear is anymore bullshit from Irsay, like the OL is fixed, Luck will be ready for OTAs, just shut the fuck up Jim!!

[Racehorse]

Here are some quotes from Ballard that seem to echo what I said:

“I think they’re going to take a little different approach and do some different strength and recovery efforts to try to get the soreness out,” Ballard said.

“He was frustrated,” Ballard continued, talking about Luck’s reaction to the news his season was officially over. “I mean, he’s a competitive guy. And not only is he a competitive guy, but he cares about his teammates, and he cares about this organization. And he knows the impact he has on Sunday. I mean, he’s a difference maker; he’s one of the top quarterbacks in this league. So he’s frustrated. He’s absolutely frustrated. But saying that, I think he’s got great resolve, and I think — look, through the dark times there’s gotta be a light, and I think a year of his body healing, getting the shoulder right, I think we’re going to see a better Andrew down the line.”

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/What%E2%80%99s-Next-For-Andrew-Luck-Patience-And-Rehab/9d04d211-64d0-4eaa-bb77-333311f8c3a4

[omahacolt]

Jim Irsay let his franchise QB have a 3-year injury that resulted in this.

Jim Irsay needs to not run the Colts.

jim irsay didnt let him do shit with his injury. come on man. that is just ridiculous.


jim miller was talking about this on moving the chains today. he said the exact same thing happened to him. the docs didn't think he needed surgery and that he could play with it but turned out it didn't hold up. he played a full season, just like Luck, and then had surgery.

it was Luck and the doctors deciding his plan. Irsay had nothing to do with it.

and if you really want irsay stepping in and overriding the docs plans, then you are borderline retarded.

[omahacolt]

All of this was Irsay’s fault. This wasn’t his father’s NFL. He hired a GM he could handle and play armchair GM.

irsay hired a gm and it didn't work out. grigson won't be the last gm that will not work out for the colts.

Luck getting hurt is nobodies fault. except maybe dam's.

[omahacolt]

Here are some quotes from Ballard that seem to echo what I said:



http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/What%E2%80%99s-Next-For-Andrew-Luck-Patience-And-Rehab/9d04d211-64d0-4eaa-bb77-333311f8c3a4

my only real worry here is if they have to go back in to the shoulder more.

[rcubed]

yeah, all the irsay blaming is dumB.

The major point of failure on his part was renewing grigson and pagano

[1965southpaw]

Houston, we have a Problem

I’m a glass half full type of person. I don’t believe that Luck’s career is over and refuse to speculate as such. I still believe the rebuild should be centered around the notion of him under center in 2018. I also think there is something good to be said for finally having the certainty of knowing that we’re riding the Brissett horse for the rest of this season. It will only help him to further develop into a much more than adequate backup to Andrew for future seasons (assuming he can stay healthy……Kravitz on JMV just said Castanzo will likely be missing some game time). I think it’s likely we won’t win another game unless we happen to trip into one on “any given Sunday”. Instead my hope is that:

1. We will see some good individual performances that give us hope we have a few of the pieces we need for next year and
2. Notwithstanding an incompetent coaching staff, we will see some competitive spirit emerge from a team that doesn’t want to be seen as not giving a shit

For the last decade I’ve connected with some of my Indy based family (I’m in NJ) for one colts away game a year and this year we are meeting this weekend in Houston. We’ve been to KC, Tenn, Miami, New York, Jax, Denver.

Ironically, the colts have won each of the road trips we’ve made over the last 10 years. There will be seven of us wearing the shoe in Houston on Sunday. Who knows maybe it will be the proverbial “any given Sunday”. Probably not, but at a minimum we’ll spend some money in a city trying to recover from a hurricane and have some fun.

[VeveJones007]

irsay hired a gm and it didn't work out. grigson won't be the last gm that will not work out for the colts.

Luck getting hurt is nobodies fault. except maybe dam's.

I firmly believe that Irsay hired a GM who wasn’t on anyone’s radar because he wanted someone he could manipulate. Irsay was tired of taking a back seat to Polian and wanted more of a say.

I basically consider Grigson and Irsay as co-GMs over those years.

[rcubed]

I firmly believe that Irsay hired a GM who wasn’t on anyone’s radar because he wanted someone he could manipulate. Irsay was tired of taking a back seat to Polian and wanted more of a say.

I basically consider Grigson and Irsay as co-GMs over those years.
I didnt get that sense. I think irsay tried someone new/different/fresh and it backfired.

I feel like irsay likes to be kept in the loop about what's going on with the team and probably has/had final veto power over the bigger decisions. Trading away top picks, money for top signees, decisions like the manning one.

[omahacolt]

I firmly believe that Irsay hired a GM who wasn’t on anyone’s radar because he wanted someone he could manipulate. Irsay was tired of taking a back seat to Polian and wanted more of a say.

I basically consider Grigson and Irsay as co-GMs over those years.

i basically consider your opinion retarded

[Brylok]

Andrew Luck will not be walking through that door fellas. This is Jacoby's team now. It's time for the team to realize this is as good as it'll get.
^ This is the next 9 months in a nutshell.

[Butter]

I think people like inventing narratives. Things went to shit, but I really doubt Jim doesn't care and isn't trying. He simply got it wrong.

[GoBigBlue88]

I think people like inventing narratives. Things went to shit, but I really doubt Jim doesn't care and isn't trying. He simply got it wrong.

This isn't something you just get wrong. This is an injury that occurred in 20andfucking15 and was never properly addressed.

Irsay let his coach and GM routinely use Luck to save their jobs. Irsay watched Luck play in meaningless games. Irsay wasted years of this franchise making very poor decisions in regards to his GM, coach and personnel.

[Dam8610]

This isn't something you just get wrong. This is an injury that occurred in 20andfucking15 and was never properly addressed.

Irsay let his coach and GM routinely use Luck to save their jobs. Irsay watched Luck play in meaningless games. Irsay wasted years of this franchise making very poor decisions in regards to his GM, coach and personnel.

Wasn't it Luck's decision to get the surgery? I would think that means that the team doctors evaluated the injury and thought surgery was unnecessary.

[omahacolt]

This isn't something you just get wrong. This is an injury that occurred in 20andfucking15 and was never properly addressed.

Irsay let his coach and GM routinely use Luck to save their jobs. Irsay watched Luck play in meaningless games. Irsay wasted years of this franchise making very poor decisions in regards to his GM, coach and personnel.

It was addressed and Luck played arguably his best football last year. It didn't get better. Maybe it was misdiagnosed. This isn't as simple as pointing a finger and blaming people

What we do know is irsay wasn't the one diagnosing the injury.

[Forrest Blue]

Benjamin Allbright
@AllbrightNFL
Per multiple sources #Colts owner Jim Irsay is privately furious about Andrew Luck situation. Feels he has been misled throughout.
7:29 PM · Nov 2, 2017

[Indiana V2]

Benjamin Allbright
@AllbrightNFL
Per multiple sources #Colts owner Jim Irsay is privately furious about Andrew Luck situation. Feels he has been misled throughout.
7:29 PM · Nov 2, 2017

Not surprised by any of this isht.

[Brylok]

Benjamin Allbright
@AllbrightNFL
Per multiple sources #Colts owner Jim Irsay is privately furious about Andrew Luck situation. Feels he has been misled throughout.
7:29 PM · Nov 2, 2017
I saw that on JMV's twitter. According to him, Jim is pissed at the medical people. Whether that's staff, outside medical, or both isn't specified.

[Butter]

This isn't something you just get wrong. This is an injury that occurred in 20andfucking15 and was never properly addressed.

Irsay let his coach and GM routinely use Luck to save their jobs. Irsay watched Luck play in meaningless games. Irsay wasted years of this franchise making very poor decisions in regards to his GM, coach, and personnel.

The injury component was not what I meant to really reference. I doubt Irsay is that involved in those decisions, he hired the people who make those decisions. He clearly did that poorly.

[Forrest Blue]

I saw that on JMV's twitter. According to him, Jim is pissed at the medical people. Whether that's staff, outside medical, or both isn't specified.

Nowadays this team just makes me sad honestly.

Front office, coaching staff, players...

[rcubed]

This isn't something you just get wrong. This is an injury that occurred in 20andfucking15 and was never properly addressed.

Irsay let his coach and GM routinely use Luck to save their jobs. Irsay watched Luck play in meaningless games. Irsay wasted years of this franchise making very poor decisions in regards to his GM, coach and personnel.
there is a difference in not caring and making poor decisions.

[OneVoice]

Meh. We all knew 2017 was a wasted season with Pagano. Luck to IR is just icing on the cake.

Unless you're wearing a tin foil hat and don't understand what confirmation bias means, there's no reason to think Luck won't return in 2018.

Irsay cares. Stop suggesting he doesn't. He did make hiring mistakes.

Ballard isn't one of them.

Irsay was overly optimistic for Luck returning in 2017. He's pissed because he cares.

There's absolutely no real reason to fire Pagano now --- but I really want to see it happen ...bc I'm so pissed he set my favorite team back two decades, thinking its 1996.

Luck is awesome but not perfect and the system Grigs-Pags installed did him no favors (Polians recent comments ring truth).

JMO

[VeveJones007]

i basically consider your opinion retarded

I certainly may be wrong, but it’s incorrect to think there isn’t any smoke there. How many times did Grigson talk about watching film with Irsay, both echoed the same points about players (e.g. Le’Raven Clark’s arm length), and Irsay took to Twitter talking about a deal that was in the works?

Either way, Irsay hired Grigson, an unqualified unknown commodity, and Grigson failed. A lot of that blame falls on Irsay for making that hire when Grigson wasn’t even on other teams’ radars.

[Coltsalr]

I saw that on JMV's twitter. According to him, Jim is pissed at the medical people. Whether that's staff, outside medical, or both isn't specified.

If we clean house totally, does that likely mean the training staff too?

Honest question.

[ChoppedWood]

Benjamin Allbright
@AllbrightNFL
Per multiple sources #Colts owner Jim Irsay is privately furious about Andrew Luck situation. Feels he has been misled throughout.
7:29 PM · Nov 2, 2017

Wait, wait, the con-man that conned the entire fan base to keep his seats filled and popcorn dollars flowing until his charade could absolutely no longer go unchecked, is pissed because he got conned?

This whole thing is a travesty of a mockery of a sham.

Fuck you Jim- this is on you!

[Racehorse]

Benjamin Allbright
@AllbrightNFL
Per multiple sources #Colts owner Jim Irsay is privately furious about Andrew Luck situation. Feels he has been misled throughout.
7:29 PM · Nov 2, 2017

How cn it be "privately" if it is also "multiple sources"?

[Racehorse]

Wait, wait, the con-man that conned the entire fan base to keep his seats filled and popcorn dollars flowing until his charade could absolutely no longer go unchecked, is pissed because he got conned?

This whole thing is a travesty of a mockery of a sham.

Fuck you Jim- this is on you!

This post is stupid. If he got conned, he didn't knowingly con others to ge more popcorn sales. I think what happened just happened without anything nefarious happening, beyond not hiring the right guys when Manning left.

[ChoppedWood]

This post is stupid. If he got conned, he didn't knowingly con others to ge more popcorn sales. I think what happened just happened without anything nefarious happening, beyond not hiring the right guys when Manning left.

We agree to disagree.

My take - Luck is PROBABLY capable of playing- probably, and probably at say 85% of what is highest capacity is- which is all-pro starter.

I don't think he was ready to play at the beginning of the year, and listening to various voices with considerable knowledge of the surgery type- to think he would have been ready to start the season would be naive. Sales job # 1- people are not stupid- we KNOW this team is shit without him and if he's not on the field, lots of empty seats pretending to be Colts fans- so we get strung along.

In looking at the progression- I think they started thinking there was a possibility of this team gelling and the division being so weak even a 70% Luck could keep us in the competition narrative and you started to hear optimistic voices that he was going to start practicing, etc.... To me, you look at when the hopes started rising, it was when we had the win over hapless Cleveland and a win against Seahawks would have found us tied for first.

Then the bottom fell out in the 2nd half of that game. But there remained some positive vibes that we could still be in this thing as we squeaked out the win against the equally woeful 9ers.

However as it became progressively more clear that against mediocre teams that are physical we had no chance- then even the scam artist Jim had to concede he needed to shelve Luck for 2 reasons:
1- IF he isn't done, a couple games behind these crap ass MF'ers that he proclaimed had "fixed" the OL in Feb (sales lie # 2)- Luck certainly WOULD be done for his career by the end of his 2-3rd game back.
2- This team is constructed on top of a fucking talent landfill. Regardless of who you want to blame, Grigs, Chuck, fucking Ballard, who cares- the roster is laughable. WE NEED HIGH DRAFT PICKS. Wins hurt that. A 75-80% Luck is going to garner what, 2 maybe 3 additional wins- what the fuck good does that do us--- NONE!

So then he turns the organization into Sales scam # 3 - Luck can't take the field due to pain. To me, he only goes this direction after finally having to concede all his piss poor decisions have compounded themselves and landed him with a steaming pile of ass.

My take is Jim isn't pissed at all, he needs to say that to save face with a fanbase that is completely apathetic at this point and more or less could give a shit about the crap product he is responsible for- he needs to create distance and that's what he's doing now.

Fuck Jim- he is the man that makes the decisions and his decisions have been horrible for this franchise lately. Step down and let someone else drive this thing.

[albany ed]

Wait, wait, the con-man that conned the entire fan base to keep his seats filled and popcorn dollars flowing until his charade could absolutely no longer go unchecked, is pissed because he got conned?

This whole thing is a travesty of a mockery of a sham.

Fuck you Jim- this is on you!

You give Irsay a lot more credit than I do. I view him as a not too bright, drugged out, born rich, son of a rich alcoholic prick. Prone to make dumb decisions, but hey, maybe he is as clever as you seem to think he is.

[ChoppedWood]

You give Irsay a lot more credit than I do. I view him as a not too bright, drugged out, born rich, son of a rich alcoholic prick. Prone to make dumb decisions, but hey, maybe he is as clever as you seem to think he is.

I think we probably agree on his altered state of consciousness.

However I think him to also be a megalomaniac who has no issues at all LYING to the people that provide him his fortune in an effort to prop up his flailing ego. To me, he's let his ego get in the way of solid football decisions now, perhaps due to his chemical dependency, who knows. Chuck Pagono still wearing Colts gear this Sunday being a prime example of such inability to do what is fundamentally a decision of right / wrong for the organization.

[njcoltfan]

After reading Gregg Doyle's column in the Star regarding the time line and the way Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano handled Lucks injury I've come to the conclusion that Moe, Larry and Curly could have done a better job. This injury happened in 2015 for Christ sakes!! I for one think they all lied, Irsay to keep selling seats, merchandise, etc. and Pagano and Grigson to keep their jobs. When you have a press conference about putting your franchise on IR, and the second statement you make is that no one has lied about the injury, well that just tells me that , you know, they lied

[DrSpaceman]

Best thing for the franchise would be Irsay turning most control at the top over to either his non-drug infused daughters or hiring Manning to do it, if possible.

Irsay created the situation by not firing Grigson and Pagano two seasons ago after the collapse following the AFC championship game. All indications were one or both of them were to be gone at that time and somehow he was talked out of it. wrong decision.

[albany ed]

After reading Gregg Doyle's column in the Star regarding the time line and the way Irsay, Grigson, and Pagano handled Lucks injury I've come to the conclusion that Moe, Larry and Curly could have done a better job. This injury happened in 2015 for Christ sakes!! I for one think they all lied, Irsay to keep selling seats, merchandise, etc. and Pagano and Grigson to keep their jobs. When you have a press conference about putting your franchise on IR, and the second statement you make is that no one has lied about the injury, well that just tells me that , you know, they lied

So they lied? What about Luck. Do you think the stooges knew more about Luck's condition than he did? Did the doctors ignore HIPPPA? Or did Luck also lie? What about Ballard? He'd have to either be really dumb or in on the lie.

[njcoltfan]

Best thing for the franchise would be Irsay turning most control at the top over to either his non-drug infused daughters or hiring Manning to do it, if possible.

Irsay created the situation by not firing Grigson and Pagano two seasons ago after the collapse following the AFC championship game. All indications were one or both of them were to be gone at that time and somehow he was talked out of it. wrong decision.

I agree, hire a director of football operations, and if I remember correctly weren’t Grigson and Pagano tied at the hip??

[njcoltfan]

So they lied? What about Luck. Do you think the stooges knew more about Luck's condition than he did? Did the doctors ignore HIPPPA? Or did Luck also lie? What about Ballard? He'd have to either be really dumb or in on the lie.

Yes, yes and yes!! He couldn’t practice because of the pain, at the very least he should have been put on IR when he lacerated his kidney. The owner, GM, and coach should have done what’s best for the player regardless of what the player wants

[albany ed]

So Irsay knew Luck's condition when he signed him to that fat contract with 44 million guaranteed? He's even dumber than I thought.

[ChoppedWood]

So Irsay knew Luck's condition when he signed him to that fat contract with 44 million guaranteed? He's even dumber than I thought.

I was very happy to hear Stuck and Gunner bringing back into focus the lack of control / authority / inability to govern things by Chuck as an attachment to this issue. They talked about how this injury is not some shot out of left field that snuck up on everyone- that it goes back into the 2015 season and how Chuck and Grigs probably both felt their jobs were in jeopardy and as such probably were susceptible to Luck saying "it hurts but I can go" and then keeping him in despite shot after shot- including last year's brutality. They then brought up the recent demolishment of Jacoby and Chuck's statement that he wouldn't come out- and then flipped it all the way around to Irsay as being the guy that bears the responsibility for allowing a coach and likely GM to jeopardize the franchise out of fear of losing his job- and that's a great summation of it.

Like it or not, Jim Irsay is the top rung of the ladder and when a 15 year prodigy may be done for because he has allowed incompetent cowards to ruin him in the span of 5 years- that is Jim's burden to carry.

[njcoltfan]

So Irsay knew Luck's condition when he signed him to that fat contract with 44 million guaranteed? He's even dumber than I thought.

You know Ed, you’re making to much sence to be posting on this board!! I’ll have to admit that Irsay signing him to that contract knowing what we all know now seems ludicrous!! I will however, not believe that Grigson, and Pagano to some extent, didn’t know what was going on. Jesus, after the Titan game in 2015 it was reported that Luck couldn’t even put on a shirt.

[Racehorse]

We agree to disagree.

My take - Luck is PROBABLY capable of playing- probably, and probably at say 85% of what is highest capacity is- which is all-pro starter.

I don't think he was ready to play at the beginning of the year, and listening to various voices with considerable knowledge of the surgery type- to think he would have been ready to start the season would be naive. Sales job # 1- people are not stupid- we KNOW this team is shit without him and if he's not on the field, lots of empty seats pretending to be Colts fans- so we get strung along.

In looking at the progression- I think they started thinking there was a possibility of this team gelling and the division being so weak even a 70% Luck could keep us in the competition narrative and you started to hear optimistic voices that he was going to start practicing, etc.... To me, you look at when the hopes started rising, it was when we had the win over hapless Cleveland and a win against Seahawks would have found us tied for first.

Then the bottom fell out in the 2nd half of that game. But there remained some positive vibes that we could still be in this thing as we squeaked out the win against the equally woeful 9ers.

However as it became progressively more clear that against mediocre teams that are physical we had no chance- then even the scam artist Jim had to concede he needed to shelve Luck for 2 reasons:
1- IF he isn't done, a couple games behind these crap ass MF'ers that he proclaimed had "fixed" the OL in Feb (sales lie # 2)- Luck certainly WOULD be done for his career by the end of his 2-3rd game back.
2- This team is constructed on top of a fucking talent landfill. Regardless of who you want to blame, Grigs, Chuck, fucking Ballard, who cares- the roster is laughable. WE NEED HIGH DRAFT PICKS. Wins hurt that. A 75-80% Luck is going to garner what, 2 maybe 3 additional wins- what the fuck good does that do us--- NONE!

So then he turns the organization into Sales scam # 3 - Luck can't take the field due to pain. To me, he only goes this direction after finally having to concede all his piss poor decisions have compounded themselves and landed him with a steaming pile of ass.

My take is Jim isn't pissed at all, he needs to say that to save face with a fanbase that is completely apathetic at this point and more or less could give a shit about the crap product he is responsible for- he needs to create distance and that's what he's doing now.

Fuck Jim- he is the man that makes the decisions and his decisions have been horrible for this franchise lately. Step down and let someone else drive this thing.
Yep. We will disagree. You contradicted yourself there and everyone sees it.

[omahacolt]

I was very happy to hear Stuck and Gunner bringing back into focus the lack of control / authority / inability to govern things by Chuck as an attachment to this issue. They talked about how this injury is not some shot out of left field that snuck up on everyone- that it goes back into the 2015 season and how Chuck and Grigs probably both felt their jobs were in jeopardy and as such probably were susceptible to Luck saying "it hurts but I can go" and then keeping him in despite shot after shot- including last year's brutality. They then brought up the recent demolishment of Jacoby and Chuck's statement that he wouldn't come out- and then flipped it all the way around to Irsay as being the guy that bears the responsibility for allowing a coach and likely GM to jeopardize the franchise out of fear of losing his job- and that's a great summation of it.

Like it or not, Jim Irsay is the top rung of the ladder and when a 15 year prodigy may be done for because he has allowed incompetent cowards to ruin him in the span of 5 years- that is Jim's burden to carry.

grigs and pagano didn't play luck to save their jobs. they played him because the docs said luck could play. and guess what? he did play. he played very fucking well.

his shoulder just never got better.

[ChoppedWood]

grigs and pagano didn't play luck to save their jobs. they played him because the docs said luck could play. and guess what? he did play. he played very fucking well.

his shoulder just never got better.

And a lot of us posted during that time about how for a guy who should be an absolute dead eye based on his talent and his years in the league he was throwing too many passes off the mark and definitely throwing too high too frequently. We'll never be able to prove it but it sure as fuck is starting to sound like there was a bunch of fucking damage in there and he was / is just "that" good that he could overcome it. So if we as fans make these observations and repeatedly comment about it- shouldn't all these fucking high dollar coaches, trainers, etc... be picking up on this shit? If they didn't well fuck me, I guess it doesn't come as a tremendous shock given the horrible staff we have, but if they did, and they chose not to fucking have it looked into---- well then WHY would that be- for the fucking fun of it Omaha, just for the fucking fun of not knowing why it was happening???

[Brylok]

If we clean house totally, does that likely mean the training staff too?

Honest question.
I have no idea anymore. This is now an absolute shit show. Waters not navigated since the pre-Manning days.

[omahacolt]

And a lot of us posted during that time about how for a guy who should be an absolute dead eye based on his talent and his years in the league he was throwing too many passes off the mark and definitely throwing too high too frequently. We'll never be able to prove it but it sure as fuck is starting to sound like there was a bunch of fucking damage in there and he was / is just "that" good that he could overcome it. So if we as fans make these observations and repeatedly comment about it- shouldn't all these fucking high dollar coaches, trainers, etc... be picking up on this shit? If they didn't well fuck me, I guess it doesn't come as a tremendous shock given the horrible staff we have, but if they did, and they chose not to fucking have it looked into---- well then WHY would that be- for the fucking fun of it Omaha, just for the fucking fun of not knowing why it was happening???
We knew his shoulder was messed up last year due to his odd practice habits. They thought it would get better but it didn't. Not everything is a conspiracy

[ChoppedWood]

We knew his shoulder was messed up last year due to his odd practice habits. They thought it would get better but it didn't. Not everything is a conspiracy

And when it didn't, and there was nothing fucking done to fix it, who might have been behind that decision? It could have been all the way to the top and been Jim desperately clinging to that SB dream since we were in the AFCCG just a couple years prior, it also could have been a couple fucking idiots (proven by empirical evidence over the span of 2.5 seasons now) who were clinging to the fucking hope of waking up to having their jobs each morning.

Don't lose focus on one very important FACT as I understand it- ANDREW LUCK made the decision to have surgery- and I think it was Irsay who made the first comment along those lines. That and the use of his surgeon would lend some credence to the team (whoever the fuck it is they wear blue clothes with a horseshoe on them) not treating this appropriately from the beginning.

Fuck you and the "conspiracy" shit. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that you have a coach that wouldn't be able to recognize the need to do something if a guy came off carrying one of his legs in his hands "clap clap pat on butt- get some ice and keep getting out there and chopping that wood".

This isn't my theory by the way assfuck, it came out of the S&G show all I am doing is posting it. And the Jacoby Brissett thing is a visible demonstration of how willing Pags is to sacrifice his guys to destruction- maybe not even to salvage meaningless wins, maybe just because he is that obtuse.

[Racehorse]

And a lot of us posted during that time about how for a guy who should be an absolute dead eye based on his talent and his years in the league he was throwing too many passes off the mark and definitely throwing too high too frequently. We'll never be able to prove it but it sure as fuck is starting to sound like there was a bunch of fucking damage in there and he was / is just "that" good that he could overcome it. So if we as fans make these observations and repeatedly comment about it- shouldn't all these fucking high dollar coaches, trainers, etc... be picking up on this shit? If they didn't well fuck me, I guess it doesn't come as a tremendous shock given the horrible staff we have, but if they did, and they chose not to fucking have it looked into---- well then WHY would that be- for the fucking fun of it Omaha, just for the fucking fun of not knowing why it was happening???

Well, it wasn't you posting it. You just joined and started being a drama queen a couple of months ago.

[ChoppedWood]

Well, it wasn't you posting it. You just joined and started being a drama queen a couple of months ago.

I've been on this shit since we were back in the old days where it was Coltsfan and Tsab and 5 other people. I think Ed something or other ran it back then- i.e. like 15 years back.

Drama queen, whatever, we are the die hards, the one's that pay attention to every damn trivial development with our favorite team- i.e why this is a site with a centrus of what, 30 regulars that really do give a shit. For whatever reason there's developed this school / collection that won't call this shit what it is- which is a damn debacle of epic proportions driven into the ground by what I do think at one time was a very solid owner, but a guy I think at this point is a drug riddled incompetent boob who has soiled my favorite team with a massive collection of complete bone head fucks! Fuck yes I am pissed, I am pissed for about 50 fucking reasons, and when I trace them back, I land at the feet of Jim Irsay.

[rcubed]

Don't lose focus on one very important FACT as I understand it- ANDREW LUCK made the decision to have surgery- and I think it was Irsay who made the first comment along those lines. That and the use of his surgeon would lend some credence to the team (whoever the fuck it is they wear blue clothes with a horseshoe on them) not treating this appropriately from the beginning.


of course it was lucks decision, its his body. The team can make recommendations but its ultimately up to the player to decide his course of action. They cant force a player one way or another. He tried to let it heal, it didnt so he opted for surgery.

You have truly lost your shit over this.

[rcubed]

This is how I picture choppedwood when I read his posts...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/22/224df902f89f4a1a7ac13ecc3636d0d5fa9035a4f085180e86 f86b155e704e48.jpg

[YDFL Commish]

I've been on this shit since we were back in the old days where it was Coltsfan and Tsab and 5 other people. I think Ed something or other ran it back then- i.e. like 15 years back.

Drama queen, whatever, we are the die hards, the one's that pay attention to every damn trivial development with our favorite team- i.e why this is a site with a centrus of what, 30 regulars that really do give a shit. For whatever reason there's developed this school / collection that won't call this shit what it is- which is a damn debacle of epic proportions driven into the ground by what I do think at one time was a very solid owner, but a guy I think at this point is a drug riddled incompetent boob who has soiled my favorite team with a massive collection of complete bone head fucks! Fuck yes I am pissed, I am pissed for about 50 fucking reasons, and when I trace them back, I land at the feet of Jim Irsay.

I go back that far and further as well. What was your moniker then?

[omahacolt]

And when it didn't, and there was nothing fucking done to fix it, who might have been behind that decision? It could have been all the way to the top and been Jim desperately clinging to that SB dream since we were in the AFCCG just a couple years prior, it also could have been a couple fucking idiots (proven by empirical evidence over the span of 2.5 seasons now) who were clinging to the fucking hope of waking up to having their jobs each morning.

Don't lose focus on one very important FACT as I understand it- ANDREW LUCK made the decision to have surgery- and I think it was Irsay who made the first comment along those lines. That and the use of his surgeon would lend some credence to the team (whoever the fuck it is they wear blue clothes with a horseshoe on them) not treating this appropriately from the beginning.

Fuck you and the "conspiracy" shit. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that you have a coach that wouldn't be able to recognize the need to do something if a guy came off carrying one of his legs in his hands "clap clap pat on butt- get some ice and keep getting out there and chopping that wood".

This isn't my theory by the way assfuck, it came out of the S&G show all I am doing is posting it. And the Jacoby Brissett thing is a visible demonstration of how willing Pags is to sacrifice his guys to destruction- maybe not even to salvage meaningless wins, maybe just because he is that obtuse.

i don't see the issue. Luck decided to have surgery after his arm didn't get better. I would do the same shit. if there was a shot that i don't need surgery then i am taking it. i am sure the option of surgery was on the table at the time.

seems to me people are just looking to get angry because they are pissed luck can't play. they want someone to blame.

[ChoppedWood]

I go back that far and further as well. What was your moniker then?

Yeah I know your boardname has survived many many versions. I think my first name in those days was Broken Horse maybe? I used to write game summaries for the site back then. Since then, shit I have probably had 10 different names- every time the site changed or I had to get a new computer I would lose my log in and start over.

I used to get in raging wars with Coltsfan about Mora. At one point Tsab and I were so violently opposed we starting making public posts that in today's world would result in arrests for terroristic threats - at one point were we talking about actually fighting to end it- then we became pretty cool with one another - I think we actually incidentally met at the Pub one day pre-game.

Who was it that was today's Dam- Ken? I remember someone so ardently supportive of the coaching it was absurd and got lambasted daily.

Who was that Colts.com mod that we all got banned by- Coltsgirl? She would ban you for saying the Colts were the 2nd best team in the NFL- it was hilarious!

[ChoppedWood]

i don't see the issue. Luck decided to have surgery after his arm didn't get better. I would do the same shit. if there was a shot that i don't need surgery then i am taking it. i am sure the option of surgery was on the table at the time.

seems to me people are just looking to get angry because they are pissed luck can't play. they want someone to blame.

I don't think it's a matter of people wanting to find someone to blame, I think it's a matter of some absolutely terrible decisions that have spanned a number of levels and literally YEARS.

Compound that by a management team that is for whatever reason completely opposed to giving a tiny hint of information about anything that fucking happens and it just invites this type of speculation and hostility.

Maybe if the team were a bit more transparent this sentiment wouldn't be so prevalent?

My point with the Luck surgery- it was stated in a manner that you could certainly infer the team didn't think it was necessary- which kind of makes sense that it's apparently an injury dating to 2015. Yes Luck could be just as much if not more culpable by trying to go all ironman and shit, but at some point isn't it a team medical staff obligation to say "hey, this guy is throwing the ball too fucked up too much, we need to see what's going on with that shoulder"- I mean he is / was touted as the next fucking multi-generational superstar can't miss dude that you could strap a saddle on and ride to 15 All-Pro's and at least 4 SB's...and we can all agree on that I hope. Instead you would think i hearing how badly this has been mishandled this was fucking Matt McGloin or McKown or fucking Matt Moore (why are there so many JAG backup dudes that all sound like the same guy and essentially are...).

[omahacolt]

Yeah I know your boardname has survived many many versions. I think my first name in those days was Broken Horse maybe? I used to write game summaries for the site back then. Since then, shit I have probably had 10 different names- every time the site changed or I had to get a new computer I would lose my log in and start over.

I used to get in raging wars with Coltsfan about Mora. At one point Tsab and I were so violently opposed we starting making public posts that in today's world would result in arrests for terroristic threats - at one point were we talking about actually fighting to end it- then we became pretty cool with one another - I think we actually incidentally met at the Pub one day pre-game.

Who was it that was today's Dam- Ken? I remember someone so ardently supportive of the coaching it was absurd and got lambasted daily.

Who was that Colts.com mod that we all got banned by- Coltsgirl? She would ban you for saying the Colts were the 2nd best team in the NFL- it was hilarious!

great story bro

good to know you have tried to be an internet tough guy for 15 years

[ChoppedWood]

great story bro

good to know you have tried to be an internet tough guy for 15 years

No, the internet tough guy act dates to about 25 years- I started being a bully of fucking idiots on the internet way back before I stumbled onto the Colts.com forum, it took a few years to find the plethora of dumb fucks like you in one central electronic locale. For whatever reason the Colts have a history of stupid shits such as you that follow them.

[omahacolt]

I don't think it's a matter of people wanting to find someone to blame, I think it's a matter of some absolutely terrible decisions that have spanned a number of levels and literally YEARS.

Compound that by a management team that is for whatever reason completely opposed to giving a tiny hint of information about anything that fucking happens and it just invites this type of speculation and hostility.

Maybe if the team were a bit more transparent this sentiment wouldn't be so prevalent?

My point with the Luck surgery- it was stated in a manner that you could certainly infer the team didn't think it was necessary- which kind of makes sense that it's apparently an injury dating to 2015. Yes Luck could be just as much if not more culpable by trying to go all ironman and shit, but at some point isn't it a team medical staff obligation to say "hey, this guy is throwing the ball too fucked up too much, we need to see what's going on with that shoulder"- I mean he is / was touted as the next fucking multi-generational superstar can't miss dude that you could strap a saddle on and ride to 15 All-Pro's and at least 4 SB's...and we can all agree on that I hope. Instead you would think i hearing how badly this has been mishandled this was fucking Matt McGloin or McKown or fucking Matt Moore (why are there so many JAG backup dudes that all sound like the same guy and essentially are...).

1) i understand people being upset about the issues with pagano and grigson. and i completely understand why people would be pissed about the shit show that pagano instigated by leaking all that shit about grigson to the press. all to save his job he truly made it a circus.

2) the team needs to be transparent blah blah blah whiney baby bullshit. grow the fuck up. you don't need to know everything. and anyone that watches football should have a decent idea of how things work.

3) again. the only way i see this was mishandled is if they had some retarded rehab program for the dude. which i doubt. or they rushed him, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

it basically boils down to luck had surgery and irsay said he would be ready for the season. that didn't happen and now you girls are butthurt. if irsay said "Andrew had shoulder surgery and we have no idea if he will play this year or not" people wouldn't be so pissed.

[omahacolt]

No, the internet tough guy act dates to about 25 years- I started being a bully of fucking idiots on the internet way back before I stumbled onto the Colts.com forum, it took a few years to find the plethora of dumb fucks like you in one central electronic locale. For whatever reason the Colts have a history of stupid shits such as you that follow them.

pretty impressive your life sucked so bad that you talked shit online using fucking dial up service.

[ChoppedWood]

pretty impressive your life sucked so bad that you talked shit online using fucking dial up service.

Said by a moderator of a fucking internet forum for a really shitty football team.

[omahacolt]

Said by a moderator of a fucking internet forum for a really shitty football team.

and proud of it, bitchtits

[omahacolt]

ian rapaport said today that


luck will not throw for two or three months. we knew that. and that while playing through the shoulder issue during 2016 they believe he did more damage to it. which we all speculated.

jim miller said he had the same thing happen to him. how is this possible in for teams to screw up shoulder injuries so bad? with mri's and a scope, how can they not get a proper course of action?

[njcoltfan]

ian rapaport said today that


luck will not throw for two or three months. we knew that. and that while playing through the shoulder issue during 2016 they believe he did more damage to it. which we all speculated.

jim miller said he had the same thing happen to him. how is this possible in for teams to screw up shoulder injuries so bad? with mri's and a scope, how can they not get a proper course of action?

Maybe the Colt doctors are also Jim's personal physicians ??