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AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-09-2025, 01:56 PM
He's officially back...per Rapoport.

https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1998451169388277944

The Colts are signing QB Philip Rivers to their practice squad, per The Insiders.

The Hall of Fame semifinalist, age 44, rejoins the Indy QB room to support Riley Leonard and serve as a potential option down the road.

A dramatic return.

https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1998452159499612318

Philip Rivers showed in his workout that his arm is still in good shape.

How will the rest of his 44-year-old body respond?

They’ll find out when he hits the practice field Wednesday.

Lov2fish
12-09-2025, 02:40 PM
He never had a great arm. He had incredible ball placement however. Surely this is a tutoring experiment more than a serious idea of putting him in the game.

Puck
12-09-2025, 02:54 PM
He never had a great arm. He had incredible ball placement however. Surely this is a tutoring experiment more than a serious idea of putting him in the game.

I think this is a sign that they do like Riley To his credit DJ was on the sidelines helping him. He did not suck. DJ is out. we need a backup if Leonard can't play Why not give Riley someone who knows the offense as well if not better that SS to sit with him.

ALSO. IF Phil does play, he may be able to adjust some of SS play calling and get the correct play called.

I am sure DJ could do that but maybe didn't want to over rule Shane.

I think Phil will have complete control of the offense when he's on the field.


Not sure what is going to happen, But like Omaha said. I want to see this

Kray007
12-09-2025, 03:21 PM
Desperate times call for desperate measures; and say whatever you want about the move, at least Steichen, Ballard, and company haven’t decided to go gently into that good night.

We’ve arrived at week 15, and the seas aren’t teeming with golden armed 26 year old Quarterbacks ready to step into the fray. Rivers might well be the pick of a slim litter.

Right now, the Colts are like a shipwrecked sailor, adrift in a storm. At the very least, Rivers gives them a a paddle.

albany ed
12-09-2025, 03:32 PM
If Rivers remains on the practice squad, his eligibility for the HOF is in tact. If he gets activated and plays, he'll have to wait another 5 years to be eligible. From the PS, he can work with Leonard and teach him.

Puck
12-09-2025, 03:37 PM
If Rivers remains on the practice squad, his eligibility for the HOF is in tact. If he gets activated and plays, he'll have to wait another 5 years to be eligible. From the PS, he can work with Leonard and teach him.

I honestly don't think Rivers is worrying about the HOF. otherwise he would have declined.

Puck
12-09-2025, 03:38 PM
Perhaps he can help with play calling. Face it. He knows this system, has played the system and probably has the best knowledge of how to do things since he has played in this system as a very very good QB. Shane may learn a few things

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-09-2025, 04:14 PM
Perhaps he can help with play calling. Face it. He knows this system, has played the system and probably has the best knowledge of how to do things since he has played in this system as a very very good QB. Shane may learn a few things


Besides playing, apparently he has coached this system as well.

He is actually running the same offense coaching HS football and had weekly phone calls with Steichen about it


https://x.com/JJWatt/status/1998461238704042159

Fun Fact learned in production meetings:

Philip Rivers ran the same offense as the Colts for his son Gunnar’s HS team this season.

He and Shane Steichen spoke weekly about it, discussing plays and even film.

So familiarity with the scheme should be no problem whatsoever.

Puck
12-09-2025, 04:49 PM
Besides playing, apparently he has coached this system as well.

He is actually running the same offense coaching HS football and had weekly phone calls with Steichen about it


https://x.com/JJWatt/status/1998461238704042159

His team in a little town in Alabama was State runner up Fairhope Alabama

Lov2fish
12-09-2025, 05:06 PM
I think this is a sign that they do like Riley To his credit DJ was on the sidelines helping him. He did not suck. DJ is out. we need a backup if Leonard can't play Why not give Riley someone who knows the offense as well if not better that SS to sit with him.

ALSO. IF Phil does play, he may be able to adjust some of SS play calling and get the correct play called.

I am sure DJ could do that but maybe didn't want to over rule Shane.

I think Phil will have complete control of the offense when he's on the field.


Not sure what is going to happen, But like Omaha said. I want to see this

Good points. I guess we will find out soon enough!

YDFL Commish
12-09-2025, 07:17 PM
If Rivers does play, then expect to see Pierce targeted less and Warren, JT, Pittman to be targeted more.

Racehorse
12-09-2025, 07:23 PM
Rivers was one of the best at deciphering a defense in order to make the right reads. This masked his below-average arm (as compared to most HOF Qbs around the past two decades). His brain is an asset, and it could be taught to Leonard, if Leonard has the capacity to absorb it all. I like the move, and think Rivers could navigate a game or two well if called on. My worry is what happens after his first game getting knocked around. I remember Reggie Miller retiring before 40 because he said it gets harder to recover from games at that age. I would imagine it would be much more difficult in the NFL, even though today's NFL is not as tough on quarterbacks as the 90s NBA was on every player. Those guys tried to hurt you, and there were no whistles or flags and fines like today.

Brylok
12-09-2025, 07:30 PM
Clown show. Embarrassing.
Bill Polian waa the only reason this team was ever successful.

Puck
12-09-2025, 07:34 PM
Clown show. Embarrassing.
Bill Polian waa the only reason this team was ever successful.

DJ is hurt, AR is hurt Riley is hurt What should have they done?

Brylok
12-09-2025, 07:43 PM
DJ is hurt, AR is hurt Riley is hurt What should have they done?

The season is lost. Over. Face reality and start Rypien and sign a low key free agent QB body off the street and finish it up. Not make an embarrassing circus out of it?
Embarrassing joke of an organization.

Brylok
12-09-2025, 07:46 PM
I hope Phil charges at least $10 million for his services these last 4 games, and I hope it counts against the salary cap.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-09-2025, 07:48 PM
DJ is hurt, AR is hurt Riley is hurt What should have they done?


Supposedly the Colts checked in on Derek Carr, too, although he might not be fully recovered from his shoulder injury.

sherck
12-09-2025, 07:56 PM
I hope Phil charges at least $10 million for his services these last 4 games, and I hope it counts against the salary cap.

Direction to the nearest Patriots board is ==========> that way.

Brylok
12-09-2025, 08:00 PM
Absolutely disgusted by this organization and it's reality TV philosophy. But that's America nowadays.

Brylok
12-09-2025, 08:14 PM
If bread, circuses, clicks, trends, any publicity no matter what is now what matters most to the Indianapolis Colts...
I want to be a fan of a serious football team that wants to win games. I wasn't even angry before they pulled this "at least it's entertaining/interesting/will get clicks" crap.
Not a serious organization
Absolute joke

Racehorse
12-09-2025, 08:37 PM
If bread, circuses, clicks, trends, any publicity no matter what is now what matters most to the Indianapolis Colts...
I want to be a fan of a serious football team that wants to win games. I wasn't even angry before they pulled this "at least it's entertaining/interesting/will get clicks" crap.
Not a serious organization
Absolute joke

There are 31 other teams that would love for you to buy their merchandise

Puck
12-09-2025, 08:43 PM
The season is lost. Over. Face reality and start Rypien and sign a low key free agent QB body off the street and finish it up. Not make an embarrassing circus out of it?
Embarrassing joke of an organization.

Theproblem with that is the Colts are not a bunch a quitters. They are fighting to the end.

No idea how you, as a Colts fan, can't get behind that.

Brylok
12-09-2025, 08:56 PM
I've never been more disgusted by the Colts, even when they hired Jeff Saturday. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt. Reality TV organization.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-10-2025, 10:46 AM
How the Colts signed Philip Rivers out of NFL retirement:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/47262315/indianapolis-colts-philip-rivers-daniel-jones-quarterback-44-years-old

Puck
12-10-2025, 10:57 AM
https://x.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1998550632131678351?s=20

sherck
12-10-2025, 11:02 AM
Quote from another Colts board that I think is true.
There really aren't any dumb moves when an NFL team loses QB1, QB2, and QB3 to injury.
DJ....AR.....RL....

Perhaps Leonard will be able to play again this season but is it iffy.

I agree, once you get to that point, there are no dumb moves.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-10-2025, 12:15 PM
Rivers will wear #17 again.

https://x.com/mchappell51/status/1998779894491201579

Colts will double up with jersey numbers.

Philip Rivers gets his 17 back with Daniel Jones (17) on IR.



https://x.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1998788582996324862

On Philip Rivers wearing the Colts No. 17 previously worn by the injured Daniel Jones, an NFL spokesman says, “The league approved it as it does not present a competitive issue as only one player will be wearing that number.”

Hoopsdoc
12-10-2025, 12:40 PM
Quote from another Colts board that I think is true.

DJ....AR.....RL....

Perhaps Leonard will be able to play again this season but is it iffy.

I agree, once you get to that point, there are no dumb moves.

Wait, I thought Leonard was day to day?

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-10-2025, 12:56 PM
Wait, I thought Leonard was day to day?


Leonard is planning to practice today - not sure if the Colts will limit him at all

Oldcolt
12-10-2025, 01:04 PM
I've never been more disgusted by the Colts, even when they hired Jeff Saturday. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt. Reality TV organization.

I get it. Everyone has a breaking point with this fucking team. They jack around fans like no other organization. From cutting Manning to jacking us around about Luck and the bullshit we have all been through looking for just an average QB I bet most of us have given up on this team more than once. To me this makes sense as a Hail Mary for the season. Personally gives me at least one more game (maybe more) I’m looking forward to (sort of) watch. Hang in there-if you are like most of us you have no other choice-impossible for me to switch allegiance after all these years.

Lov2fish
12-10-2025, 01:17 PM
I get it. Everyone has a breaking point with this fucking team. They jack around fans like no other organization. From cutting Manning to jacking us around about Luck and the bullshit we have all been through looking for just an average QB I bet most of us have given up on this team more than once. To me this makes sense as a Hail Mary for the season. Personally gives me at least one more game (maybe more) I’m looking forward to (sort of) watch. Hang in there-if you are like most of us you have no other choice-impossible for me to switch allegiance after all these years.

I have been a fan since circa 1978-79 when I saw them play the Bills one afternoon at my uncles house in Florida. I was ecstatic when they moved to Indy. I have been frustrated, pissed and even embarrassed, but I have never not been a fan. I suppose that will hold true until my last breath.

Pez
12-10-2025, 01:42 PM
Absolutely disgusted by this organization and it's reality TV philosophy. But that's America nowadays.

Disgusted is too strong a word for me. I'm just finding it hard to be proud of what is and always will be my team.

Hoopsdoc
12-10-2025, 01:47 PM
I get it. Everyone has a breaking point with this fucking team. They jack around fans like no other organization. From cutting Manning to jacking us around about Luck and the bullshit we have all been through looking for just an average QB I bet most of us have given up on this team more than once. To me this makes sense as a Hail Mary for the season. Personally gives me at least one more game (maybe more) I’m looking forward to (sort of) watch. Hang in there-if you are like most of us you have no other choice-impossible for me to switch allegiance after all these years.

Cutting Manning was the right move at the time.

Hoopsdoc
12-10-2025, 01:48 PM
Leonard is planning to practice today - not sure if the Colts will limit him at all

Ok maybe I read that wrong but I thought Sherck was saying Leonard may not play again this season.

Surely if Leonard is able to go, he will go.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-10-2025, 01:54 PM
Ok maybe I read that wrong but I thought Sherck was saying Leonard may not play again this season.

Surely if Leonard is able to go, he will go.


There were a few outlets that referred to Leonard's injury not as day-to-day but rather week-to-week.

I think Schefter may have been the first who wrote that.


https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1998192243019292888

Colts QB Riley Leonard is dealing with what a source described as a strained knee ligament that has him “week to week.”

Colts uncertain whether he will be able to play Sunday at Seattle.

Hoopsdoc
12-10-2025, 02:40 PM
There were a few outlets that referred to Leonard's injury not as day-to-day but rather week-to-week.

I think Schefter may have been the first who wrote that.


https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1998192243019292888

Leonard is practicing today per Steichen.

He wouldn’t say who would start Sunday, which to me says they’ll start Old Man Rivers if it’s even remotely feasible.

Hoopsdoc
12-10-2025, 02:42 PM
Theproblem with that is the Colts are not a bunch a quitters. They are fighting to the end.

No idea how you, as a Colts fan, can't get behind that.

I mean, what are they supposed to tell JT, Grover, Kenny Moore, etc?

“The season is fucked guys so we’re not even trying anymore. Just go through the motions.”

Ridiculous. People act like this is Madden when it isn’t. Of course they’re doing everything thing they can think of.

Brylok
12-10-2025, 03:51 PM
I get it. Everyone has a breaking point with this fucking team. They jack around fans like no other organization. From cutting Manning to jacking us around about Luck and the bullshit we have all been through looking for just an average QB I bet most of us have given up on this team more than once. To me this makes sense as a Hail Mary for the season. Personally gives me at least one more game (maybe more) I’m looking forward to (sort of) watch. Hang in there-if you are like most of us you have no other choice-impossible for me to switch allegiance after all these years.

Thank you, Oldcolt. I'll always be a Colts fan because, like you said,.you can't just change your team after so many years. But they went down several pegs yesterday. In the 80s and 90s, the NBA was, by far, my favorite sport to watch. And the 90s Pacers. I don't watch or care about either of those anymore. And I'm a Reds fan....oof. A very casual fan nowadays. The Colts slipped down several pegs yesterday.

ChaosTheory
12-10-2025, 03:57 PM
I like reading criticism of Steichen and Ballard for "not having a plan."

When your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd QB all get sniped by the football Grim Reaper, well fuck me, maybe there's no such thing as a plan at that point.

Rather not sneak into the playoffs because it hurts our draft position? Why, because we're worried about dropping from the 47th overall to the 53rd overall pick?

Fuck that. The bad part already happened. Abruptly. The #1 seed and all that was the goal most of the season, but shit happens the way it happens. Now, why not see how many parades we can rain on? Watch and have fun without the expectations. What else can you do?

Oldcolt
12-10-2025, 08:23 PM
Cutting Manning was the right move at the time.

It was just like letting Unitas go to San Diego was the right football move I guess. Was the wrong message for the teams legacy and didnt make us a contender in either case. Right now Manning is a Bronco/Colt and Unitas disowned the entire organization for how he was treated.

YDFL Commish
12-10-2025, 09:09 PM
I like reading criticism of Steichen and Ballard for "not having a plan."

When your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd QB all get sniped by the football Grim Reaper, well fuck me, maybe there's no such thing as a plan at that point.

Rather not sneak into the playoffs because it hurts our draft position? Why, because we're worried about dropping from the 47th overall to the 53rd overall pick?

Fuck that. The bad part already happened. Abruptly. The #1 seed and all that was the goal most of the season, but shit happens the way it happens. Now, why not see how many parades we can rain on? Watch and have fun without the expectations. What else can you do?

Finally a post of reason

Hoopsdoc
12-10-2025, 10:23 PM
It was just like letting Unitas go to San Diego was the right football move I guess. Was the wrong message for the teams legacy and didnt make us a contender in either case. Right now Manning is a Bronco/Colt and Unitas disowned the entire organization for how he was treated.

Luck made us a contender in his rookie year. We went 11-5 if you recall.

I blame Jim more than I do Luck for the way his career went here. It was Jim who hired that con man snake Ryan Grigson, who completely fucked up the roster during Lucks formative years, so that he got beat to hell and couldn’t do it anymore.

Luck should still be here and I will go to my grave believing that if he had stuck around we’d have been to at least one Super Bowl by now. Probably would have won one.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-12-2025, 12:00 PM
Here is another "Behind the Scenes" type of article by Breer:

https://www.si.com/nfl/inside-48-hours-when-colts-lured-philip-rivers-out-of-retirement

By: Al Breer

Inside the 48 Hours When the Colts Lured Philip Rivers Out of Retirement

He would talk scheme every week with Shane Steichen and beat draft prospects in summer competitions. Now the 44-year-old is back in the NFL.


Stuck at EverBank Stadium, and waiting for a new charter home with mechanical issues sending the team plane in for repairs, Colts coach Shane Steichen and GM Chris Ballard were staring down a quarterback situation in apparent disrepair.

Starter Daniel Jones, already playing through a fractured fibula, had sustained a season-ending torn Achilles hours earlier, in what became a blowout loss to the Jaguars. Then, in the locker room postgame, rookie sixth-rounder Riley Leonard—who’d put together an admirable, hope-provoking three quarters—revealed to coaches the pain he felt in a knee that he tweaked during the second half.

Former first-rounder Anthony Richardson, who underwent orbital surgery in late October after a freak accident with a resistance band, was already shelved with no timetable for return. Veteran Brett Rypien was stashed on the practice squad. The Colts, quite simply, were long on problems and short on answers at the game’s most important position.

“What about Rivers?” Steichen asked, in the bowels of the stadium.

Ballard, taken aback, responded, “Would he do it?”

And thus began a wild 48 hours that brought eight-time Pro Bowl quarterback Philip Rivers, a veteran of 17 NFL seasons, back to pro football after a five-year retirement.

No one has outsized expectations on how this will all play out. The Colts aren’t going to saddle Rivers with salvaging their 8–5 season, which was so promising until the most recent three-game losing streak. For now, they’re anxious to see what he looks like on the practice field on Wednesday, as they start preparing for Sunday’s showdown with the 10–3 Seahawks in Seattle.

But what Rivers can give them, and more specifically their locker room, is some semblance of hope in the wake of a catastrophic Sunday in North Florida, and a truckload of energy and enthusiasm for the game, with four regular-season dates left on their 2025 schedule.

From that standpoint, Steichen and Ballard know exactly what they’re getting.

Steichen’s relationship with Rivers was born in his first NFL season, 2011, in the San Diego Chargers’ lunchroom, as the young coach was getting his start as a defensive assistant for Norv Turner. Rivers heard Steichen running the scout team in practice, and could tell, by how the coach barked out his cadence, that he was a quarterback. So that day, Rivers and Steichen shot the breeze over Steichen’s playing days at UNLV, and a bond was born.

Turner was fired after 2012 and took Steichen to Cleveland, then Steichen returned to San Diego to work for Mike McCoy in 2014, this time on the offensive side. By 2016, Steichen was Rivers’s position coach. Midway through the 2019 season, Chargers head coach Anthony Lynn tabbed Steichen to become Rivers’s coordinator, based primarily on the strong relationship the two had built.

The next year, Rivers became a free agent, and Ballard signed him to a one-year deal in Indianapolis, reuniting him with Frank Reich and getting to see what Steichen had for eight seasons in San Diego and, after the team relocated, Los Angeles.

Steichen and Rivers kept in touch. And that dialogue never stopped.

The coach and quarterback talk twice a week, and that conversation over the years has evolved. They talk football. They talk life. They would exchange film, and laugh about how the Colts and the St. Michael Catholic schemes are so similar—Rivers has been the head coach for the past five seasons at the Fairhope, Ala., parochial school, where his eldest son, Gunner, is now a junior quarterback and blue-chip recruit.

How similar? Steichen could look at any number of concepts St. Michael was running and immediately identify the one-word call that those old Chargers would associate with it.

Rivers also stayed connected to the league, helping guys prepare for the draft, working with his friend David Morris’s Mobile-based business, QB Country. In recent years, Morris has brought his draft prospects to Rivers’s house once a week to throw and talk football, in the lead-up to the Senior Bowl and combine. In 2024, that group included Bo Nix and Drake Maye. Last year, Tyler Shough and, yes, Leonard himself were part of the crew.

At the end of those days at Rivers’s house, the old quarterback would bring the kids out back and have a quarterback competition that Rivers would routinely win. Part of it, those there would tell you, was the home-field advantage he had, throwing on his own yard into his own nets. But another was that, even when compared with quarterbacks in their early 20s who were headed for the pros, Rivers could still really sling it.

So, at a baseline, Steichen knew Rivers was running a simplified version of his offense, knew Rivers had been watching the Colts’ tape and knew Rivers could still throw it.

But did Rivers, at 44, actually have the appetite to reenter the brutal world of the NFL?

After landing in Indianapolis on Sunday night, Steichen and Ballard called Rivers to figure that out. Rivers told them, in so many words, that if he was going to do it, it’d probably be a good idea for him to come and throw for them first, and see how he felt. But he wanted to give it more thought, so they resolved to circle back Monday morning.

When they did, Rivers’s excitement wasn’t hard to pick up on.

“Let me get up there and throw it around a little bit,” he said, “and we’ll figure it out.”

The Colts sent the Irsay family plane to pick up Rivers at midday. He landed around 5 p.m. and soon thereafter was walking into the team facility he’d called home five years earlier, remarking quickly how the weight room had been renovated. They met for an hour in Ballard’s office, catching up and talking about the team and the season, before moving to the team’s field house at 7:30 p.m. for the throwing session.

Steichen and the offensive coaches had a 30-to-35-throw program for him, with practice squad receivers Coleman Owen and Eli Pancol, and a couple of equipment staffers to catch the ball for him. He threw shallow crosses. He threw deep overs. He threw go balls. They went through the whole route tree.

The ball was jumping off Rivers’s right hand. His feet were quick. He looked sharp.

Everything was checking out. Rivers, Ballard and Steichen met again for a couple of hours after the throwing session. Rivers felt good coming out of it, and asked the Colts to give him until noon Tuesday to make a final call. Meanwhile, Leonard—who’d told his coaches, after initially reporting the injury postgame, that he felt a little stiff coming off the plane—was trending in a positive direction, and had been apprised of the Rivers situation on Monday, and Rypien was elevated off the practice squad.

So the Colts were prepared for whatever Rivers decided. But they were also excited by the idea that he might go through with something they’d seen as a shot in the dark 24 hours earlier.

With a few hours to spare, Rivers gave the Colts the thumbs up to sign him to the practice squad, and he was in the facility putting the new weight room to use. Steichen caught Rivers afterward watching tape, and immediately locked in like his career never ended.

Rivers and the coaches spent Tuesday going through first and second down, then breaking, then going through the protection plan, then breaking, then going through third down.

Maybe most amazing was how quickly Rivers’s switch flipped. At one point, in going through a few of the Colts’ games to catch himself up, he picked up on what a defense was trying to do to Indy, and immediately said how Indy needed, in that spot, to get to a certain protection and then throw a swing pass to Jonathan Taylor in the flat.

Of course, that part you would expect. Rivers isn’t just the proverbial coach on the field anymore. He’s literally a coach, and one with nearly two decades of NFL playing experience.

The bigger questions from here will relate to the stuff the Colts couldn’t possibly test by handing Rivers the clicker in the meeting room, or giving him a pair of shorts and a ball and having him throw in an empty indoor facility on a Monday night.

Rivers has kept himself in good shape, but that’s different than being in football shape. How his timing and instincts will show up in the pocket, first in practice and then under live fire in a game setting after such a long layoff, is an open question, too, and one that won’t be answered until he actually does it. It’s also hard to know how his body will respond to hits.

As such, with so little history of something like this happening—Steve DeBerg is probably the closest comp, but when he came back in Atlanta at age 44, after five years away, he got a full training camp to prepare—there’s still a ton of unknown ahead.

But at the very least, an Indy team dealing with a lot (and still processing the loss of Jones) should get a spark. And having Rivers around, even for a month, should be good for every young player in that building.

And the mystery, from here, becomes the cool part.

The first step there will be taken on the practice field. That’s where the coaches will figure out whether Rivers is their best option for Sunday, with Leonard getting better (and potentially ready to practice), and Rypien coming out of the bullpen. From there, if he is, and if he starts in Seattle, then we’ll all get to see something that’s never quite been done before.

That, in itself, makes this a really good story.

And who knows? Maybe Rivers can go out there and make it an even better one.

Puck
12-12-2025, 12:16 PM
After seeing DJ go down last week. I was not looking forward to Sunday. But now Win or Lose. this will be fun. And I know the Colts are turning every stone to do everything they can to win.

If it doesn't work out. He will still be hopefully be around to help Riley.

Go Colts

Oldcolt
12-12-2025, 04:37 PM
I appreciate seeing AR next to Rivers. Exactly what he has needed.

albany ed
12-12-2025, 05:10 PM
I haven't seen any news that says Rivers has been activated from the practice squad. Has anyone else?

AlwaysSunnyinIndy
12-12-2025, 05:23 PM
I haven't seen any news that says Rivers has been activated from the practice squad. Has anyone else?


If they opt to just elevate him...those usually don't get announced until Saturday.

And sometimes they will wait to make a roster move along with the elevations and do both through one announcement.