Even with Pagano, how is it possible this team is so poorly coached?

[Gimmick]

Sorry I missed the game tonight and just got home during 4th quarter. Went online to check the play-by-play that I missed and here is the very first play of the game:

(15:00 - 1st) B.Walsh kicks 67 yards from SEA 35 to IND -2. Q.Bray to IND 9 for 11 yards (T.McEvoy).

WTF? How terrible can the coaching staff possibly be at their multi-million dollar jobs? Couldn't a ****ing janitor with an IQ of 55 figure out that you get the ball at the 25 if you catch in the end-zone and take a ****ing knee every time?!!? Instead we've got these superstar assholes always running it out to the 9 ****ing yard line.

The coaching on the Colts might be worst coaching I've ever seen at any level of football. Ever. It never improves. There is always **** like this popping up every single game for 5 years now. ****ing disgusting.

[omahacolt]

You missed the game? Why

[Thorgrim]

You missed the game? Why

We should have been so lucky.

[Kray007]

Unless the ball's kicked deep into the end zone...at least 6 or 7 yards, most return guys are gonna be tempted to run it out. You don't make SportsCenter's NFL highlight package by taking a knee in the end zone.

[Puck]

Unless the ball's kicked deep into the end zone...at least 6 or 7 yards, most return guys are gonna be tempted to run it out. You don't make SportsCenter's NFL highlight package by taking a knee in the end zone.

Maybe. It but you become a prime candidate for "COME ON MAN!"

[nate505]

Unless the ball's kicked deep into the end zone...at least 6 or 7 yards, most return guys are gonna be tempted to run it out. You don't make SportsCenter's NFL highlight package by taking a knee in the end zone.

Then they should cut him. Quan Bray doesn't possess some sort of skill set that nearly anyone else can do. If a mannequin stood in the endzone the Colts would get better field position than what Bray tends to manage.

So they should cut him if yelling at him to not take the ball out of the endzone doesn't work, but this is the Colts and their dumb fuck of a coaching staff so he stays. Much like they should cut Moore, though at least he did make a nice play in the Seattle game, even though he's made far more dumb plays.

That being said, there's a total non-football side of me that's glad Bray has a job in the NFL, mostly because of the tragedy in his life that he's overcome. Still, his on field performance hasn't justified much lately.

[albany ed]

Accountability comes from the top down. From Pagano, all you get when you fuck up is a few claps, a pat on the ass and a few "um, you know" words of encouragement. If Bray runs a kickoff out of the end zone from a few yards deep, he should get his ass reamed out, unless that's what you're coaching him to do. Anything less is basically saying, "um, you know" you gave it a shot. Better luck next time. Pagano should be ripping the Asst. Coaches when their charges fuck up and they in turn should be ripping the players. Mental errors can happen, but repeated mental errors are a coaching problem.

[IndyNorm]

Accountability comes from the top down. From Pagano, all you get when you fuck up is a few claps, a pat on the ass and a few "um, you know" words of encouragement. If Bray runs a kickoff out of the end zone from a few yards deep, he should get his ass reamed out, unless that's what you're coaching him to do. Anything less is basically saying, "um, you know" you gave it a shot. Better luck next time. Pagano should be ripping the Asst. Coaches when their charges fuck up and they in turn should be ripping the players. Mental errors can happen, but repeated mental errors are a coaching problem.

I believe the exact quote Clappy uses is: "Don't worry. You'll chop more wood next time." :rolleyes:

[DrSpaceman]

It annoys me when Bray returns the ball from out of the end zone

But on the other hand, in terms of his actual ability to return kicks rather than just fair catching or downing in the end zone, Bray is the best return man the Colts have had in awhile.

You can say he does not possess a skill set that cannot be easily replaced, but years of history for the Colts says otherwise.

[Dam8610]

Accountability comes from the top down. From Pagano, all you get when you fuck up is a few claps, a pat on the ass and a few "um, you know" words of encouragement. If Bray runs a kickoff out of the end zone from a few yards deep, he should get his ass reamed out, unless that's what you're coaching him to do. Anything less is basically saying, "um, you know" you gave it a shot. Better luck next time. Pagano should be ripping the Asst. Coaches when their charges fuck up and they in turn should be ripping the players. Mental errors can happen, but repeated mental errors are a coaching problem.

You must have hated Dungy.

[Butter]

You must have hated Dungy.
Dungy was an adequate HC who assembled a very solid staff and had the benefit of the best QB ever who was an Ironman for him as well as one of the best GMs for many years.

[albany ed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by albany ed View Post
Accountability comes from the top down. From Pagano, all you get when you fuck up is a few claps, a pat on the ass and a few "um, you know" words of encouragement. If Bray runs a kickoff out of the end zone from a few yards deep, he should get his ass reamed out, unless that's what you're coaching him to do. Anything less is basically saying, "um, you know" you gave it a shot. Better luck next time. Pagano should be ripping the Asst. Coaches when their charges fuck up and they in turn should be ripping the players. Mental errors can happen, but repeated mental errors are a coaching problem.


You must have hated Dungy.

I felt and still do that Dungy was overrated. He had a good football mind, creating a defense that was very effective for a period of time. I don't believe he was a coach with the ability to make game time adjustments. Players loved him and most would give their all for him, but come playoff time, so did all players from all teams. It was Peyton Manning that put Dungy over the top.

Bottom line, I was not a big fan of Dungy AS A COACH. My idea of a quality HC is not a cheerleader, but a coach who gets the most from his players by demanding it. A "nobody is more important than the team" type of coach. Respect isn't given, it's earned.

[Dam8610]

Dungy was an adequate HC who assembled a very solid staff and had the benefit of the best QB ever who was an Ironman for him as well as one of the best GMs for many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albany ed View Post
Accountability comes from the top down. From Pagano, all you get when you fuck up is a few claps, a pat on the ass and a few "um, you know" words of encouragement. If Bray runs a kickoff out of the end zone from a few yards deep, he should get his ass reamed out, unless that's what you're coaching him to do. Anything less is basically saying, "um, you know" you gave it a shot. Better luck next time. Pagano should be ripping the Asst. Coaches when their charges fuck up and they in turn should be ripping the players. Mental errors can happen, but repeated mental errors are a coaching problem.




I felt and still do that Dungy was over-rated. He had a good football mind, creating a defense that was very effective for a period of time. I don't believe he was a coach with the ability to make game time adjustments. Players loved him and most would give their all for him, but come playoff time, so did all players from all teams. It was Peyton Manning that put Dungy over the top.

Bottom line, I was not a big fan of Dungy AS A COACH. My idea of a quality HC is not a cheerleader, but a coach who gets the most from his players by demanding it. A "nobody is more important than the team" type of coach. Respect isn't given, it's earned.

These posts illustrate extremely well the ridiculous standard for head coaching around here. You're both talking about a Hall of Fame head coach who averaged nearly 11 wins per season as if he was adequate, bordering on inadequate. No one here seems to understand that the next head coach could be Gus Bradley, Mike Nolan, Romeo Crennel, Jim Schwartz, Dom Capers, Ken Whisenhunt, Mike McCoy, Chan Gailey, Dick Jauron, Chip Kelly, Norv Turner, etc.

[Racehorse]

Can't be worse than what we have now

[omahacolt]

These posts illustrate extremely well the ridiculous standard for head coaching around here. You're both talking about a Hall of Fame head coach who averaged nearly 11 wins per season as if he was adequate, bordering on inadequate. No one here seems to understand that the next head coach could be Gus Bradley, Mike Nolan, Romeo Crennel, Jim Schwartz, Dom Capers, Ken Whisenhunt, Mike McCoy, Chan Gailey, Dick Jauron, Chip Kelly, Norv Turner, etc.

You have no standards for the hc. In your mind they aren't needed and do absolutely nothing

[albany ed]

These posts illustrate extremely well the ridiculous standard for head coaching around here. You're both talking about a Hall of Fame head coach who averaged nearly 11 wins per season as if he was adequate, bordering on inadequate. No one here seems to understand that the next head coach could be Gus Bradley, Mike Nolan, Romeo Crennel, Jim Schwartz, Dom Capers, Ken Whisenhunt, Mike McCoy, Chan Gailey, Dick Jauron, Chip Kelly, Norv Turner, etc.

You said I must have hated him. I didn't, and I'm grateful that under him the Colts finally won a Lombardi. I said he had a good football mind, but was not strong on game time adjustments. I want the Colts to succeed, and if that's a ridiculous standard to hold for a Head Coach and the players, then, I'm guilty. You may be satisfied with a good regular season and a losing record in the playoffs, but I'm not. And I'm certainly not satisfied with a team that makes the same mental mistakes game after game. Give me a smart QB, a mean defense, and a coach that won't accept stupidity, and certainly won't accept repeated stupidity.

[Dam8610]

Can't be worse than what we have now

If you don't think Gus Bradley would be worse, there's no hope for you to be rational.

[Dam8610]

You have no standards for the hc. In your mind they aren't needed and do absolutely nothing

I have realistic standards. I don't expect the coach to go out on the field and execute for the players like most of you here do. I also don't expect him to be a raving lunatic demanding perfection on every play from the sidelines, because that's how you get the Josh McDaniels led Denver Broncos.

[Racehorse]

If you don't think Gus Bradley would be worse, there's no hope for you to be rational.

The difference between the two is Andrew Luck played for one and not the other.

[albany ed]

I have realistic standards. I don't expect the coach to go out on the field and execute for the players like most of you here do. I also don't expect him to be a raving lunatic demanding perfection on every play from the sidelines, because that's how you get the Josh McDaniels led Denver Broncos.

I don't think anyone is looking for a raving lunatic. The game is played by humans and humans make mistakes, but coaches like BB, work hard in practice to limit those mistakes. To me, if a team continues to make mental errors, game after game, it's a lack of solid coaching. You seem to limit coaching style to either cheerleader or raving lunatic.

[Dam8610]

I don't think anyone is looking for a raving lunatic. The game is played by humans and humans make mistakes, but coaches like BB, work hard in practice to limit those mistakes. To me, if a team continues to make mental errors, game after game, it's a lack of solid coaching. You seem to limit coaching style to either cheerleader or raving lunatic.

1) Belicheat is a cheater, so he's not exactly what should be modeled, because the next team that gets caught cheating might not be so lucky.

2) Belicheat has a very similar leadership style to Dungy, but you're praising one while saying the other was overrated when the only real difference in them was one cheated and one didn't.

[IndyNorm]

I have realistic standards. I don't expect the coach to go out on the field and execute for the players like most of you here do. I also don't expect him to be a raving lunatic demanding perfection on every play from the sidelines, because that's how you get the Josh McDaniels led Denver Broncos.

Expecting a coach and his staff to prepare the team well enough to where more often than not they actually look like they no what the hell is going on to start games (which 75% of the time Clappy and his staff have not been able to do) and not trying to give games away by attempting to run out the clock for the entire 2nd half are not unrealistic standards.

Also, expecting them to not make some of the dumbest decisions in NFL history (fake punt, Marlin Mack non-review) and actually hold players accountable for boneheaded mistakes (Rogers fielding punts inside the 10, Bray returning obvious touch backs to the 10) is not unrealistic either.

[omahacolt]

I have realistic standards. I don't expect the coach to go out on the field and execute for the players like most of you here do. I also don't expect him to be a raving lunatic demanding perfection on every play from the sidelines, because that's how you get the Josh McDaniels led Denver Broncos.

no you don't. you have said

1) if the players are bad, that is solely on the gm

2) if the players play bad, that isn't on the coach because the players just aren't good enough

3) you claim that the gm sets who plays when that fits your narrative.

so in your reality, the hc has zero to do with how the team plays.