L'Jarius Sneed

[jasperhobbs]

Rumors are rampid that the colts are going to trade for Sneed. I'm against it not because of the draft picks it would take to get him but the contract he wants and would get.

I would rather see the colts draft someone. How do others feel on the possible trade?

[jasperhobbs]

I keep think Sneed might be like J C Jackson, great in the system he was in and terrible in new system and paid a ton of money. Sure didn't work out for the chargers.

[Hoopsdoc]

He’s low key one of the best corners in the league. I’m not opposed to getting him. Lord knows we need cornerbacks.

[YDFL Commish]

He’s low key one of the best corners in the league. I’m not opposed to getting him. Lord knows we need cornerbacks.

I agree with sentiment. I know that he's a good zone corner and that we play predominately zone. But he also comes from a team that blitzes more than Bradley does with the Colts.

Sneed may not be the same player if he has to cover for an extra .5 to 1 sec. compared to what he's accustomed to.

[apballin]

I’m good with it… rather have a guy that’s playing at a high level then drafting a guy and waiting for him to potentially be good in a few years

Put all the talent we can around AR while he’s on his rookie deal— offense and defense

[Dewey 5]

Rumors are rampid that the colts are going to trade for Sneed. I'm against it not because of the draft picks it would take to get him but the contract he wants and would get.

I would rather see the colts draft someone. How do others feel on the possible trade?

I think Holder shot all those rumors down

[apballin]

I think Holder shot all those rumors down

Holder is good with team info during the season but situations like this I don’t trust him

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

The main point that Holder was making was that the deal wasn't done to shoot down the tweets saying that the "deal is done" or the "deal is imminent."

And considering that it has been 8 or 9 hours since those "deal is done" tweets and there is no Rapoport or Schefter tweet announcing the trade - it looks like Holder was right.


But it is pretty clear that the Colts are interested in Sneed (as are a few other teams) and have been talking with Kansas City and Sneed's agent.


And the stalemate seems to be about the contract terms....Sneed wants to be the highest paid CB in terms of AAV.

[jasperhobbs]

I would rather see the Colts draft Quinyon Mitchell from Toledo.

[albany ed]

If the reason the Chiefs would trade him is because of his salary demands, then he should be available by a trade with a much lower draft pick(s). Anything below 3 would make this a good trade. If you have to give up a high draft pick and still pay big bucks to sign him, then I hope they pass.

[apballin]

Kinda sets a bad precedent to pay an outsider more than you paid any of your own guys

[albany ed]

Kinda sets a bad precedent to pay an outsider more than you paid any of your own guys

Not really religious, but I recall a parable about each worker being paid what they agreed upon.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Kinda sets a bad precedent to pay an outsider more than you paid any of your own guys


I wouldn't worry too much about this point.

I think Ballard has a fairly good reputation about paying Colts players (even a few times when he didn't have to extend / restructure at the time).

And the precedent has already been set - it would be a similar situation to the trade for Buckner and immediately paying him a new big contract.

[IndyNorm]

I wouldn't worry too much about this point.

I think Ballard has a fairly good reputation about paying Colts players (even a few times when he didn't have to extend / restructure at the time).

And the precedent has already been set - it would be a similar situation to the trade for Buckner and immediately paying him a new big contract.

Not to mention the fact that most teams pay UFAs more than current players on their roster all of the time.

[apballin]

I wouldn't worry too much about this point.

I think Ballard has a fairly good reputation about paying Colts players (even a few times when he didn't have to extend / restructure at the time).

And the precedent has already been set - it would be a similar situation to the trade for Buckner and immediately paying him a new big contract.

Similar situation for sure…. We could’ve stayed put and drafted Kinlaw, instead they chose the proven guy

Now it’s go all in on Sneed or draft Mitchell

[Dewey 5]

Shefter just pretty much clowned Destin Adams. There never was a trade in place & the Colts & KC never even had a discussion. Snead ain’t coming to Indy & never was. The end.

[Chromeburn]

Shefter just pretty much clowned Destin Adams. There never was a trade in place & the Colts & KC never even had a discussion. Snead ain’t coming to Indy & never was. The end.

That was brutal. They have not had talks what-so-ever and Sneed wants a long term deal. Holder was right.

[Colts And Orioles]

Shefter just pretty much clowned Destin Adams. There never was a trade in place , and the Colts and the Chiefs never even had a discussion. Snead isn’t coming to Indianapolis, and never was ...... ) The End.





o


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV8PSj-hQvw

o

[apballin]

Holder was just on JMV, said the same thing

Said they had discussions about signing Hunter and asked about Sneed at the combine and when they didn’t get Hunter they pretty much resigned all their own guys

Said he’s expecting CB to be the round 1 pick

[Dewey 5]

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Trade: Chiefs are finalizing a deal to send franchise CB L’Jarius Snead to the Titans, per league sources.

Chiefs are expected to receive a 2025 3rd-round pick, in addition to a 2024 7th-round pick flop, while Snead will sign a new contract. Trade is pending physical for Sneed.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1771369568109273229

[ChoppedWood]

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Trade: Chiefs are finalizing a deal to send franchise CB L’Jarius Snead to the Titans, per league sources.

Chiefs are expected to receive a 2025 3rd-round pick, in addition to a 2024 7th-round pick flop, while Snead will sign a new contract. Trade is pending physical for Sneed.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1771369568109273229

Ballarded once more... can't stand the dude.

[Dewey 5]

Ballarded once more... can't stand the dude.

When we miss the playoffs yet again & probably finish in 3rd place in the division maybe then Irsay will figure out that he needs to go.

[Thorgrim]

Ballard, wtf?

[YDFL Commish]

How does this trade make any sense for the Titans?

Are they a CB away from competing for deep runs in the playoffs? It's dumb!

From the Colts perspective...I'm sorry but I'm not in love with Sneed. The trade compensation is not a concern. It's the quality of the player vs the value of the contract.

For comparison, Sneed is not anywhere in the same stratosphere as Revis island.

[Dam8610]

I understand the frustration, but there are a lot of factors that we don't and won't ever know. Yes, the Titans got him for a 3 next year, but the Chiefs may be thinking that it's very likely that the Titans will have a high pick next year. They may have wanted a 2025 2 from the Colts, since it's much more likely that the Colts will have a much lower pick than the Titans in 2025. Then there's the issues with Sneed. First, we have no idea what the medicals on his knee are, but apparently they were concerning for several NFL teams. Many of the same people who are complaining that Ballard didn't pull the trigger on this now are the same people who would say "Ballard got fleeced by the Chiefs" if he gave up next year's 2 and Sneed suffered a season ending knee injury in camp or at the beginning of the season. Finally, the Colts have a very unique disadvantage in the NFL, as they are the only team in a division where all of their division rivals don't have a state income tax, but they do. Which leads me to the other Sneed issue, contract compensation. We'll never know if the Colts were actually in on Sneed or not, but there were rumors at one point that he wanted 22m AAV, and he ended up signing for 19m AAV. Yes, those rumors could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sneed would want more from the Colts than he would from the Titans to compensate for the tax difference.

[ChaosTheory]

I understand the frustration, but there are a lot of factors that we don't and won't ever know. Yes, the Titans got him for a 3 next year, but the Chiefs may be thinking that it's very likely that the Titans will have a high pick next year. They may have wanted a 2025 2 from the Colts, since it's much more likely that the Colts will have a much lower pick than the Titans in 2025. Then there's the issues with Sneed. First, we have no idea what the medicals on his knee are, but apparently they were concerning for several NFL teams. Many of the same people who are complaining that Ballard didn't pull the trigger on this now are the same people who would say "Ballard got fleeced by the Chiefs" if he gave up next year's 2 and Sneed suffered a season ending knee injury in camp or at the beginning of the season. Finally, the Colts have a very unique disadvantage in the NFL, as they are the only team in a division where all of their division rivals don't have a state income tax, but they do. Which leads me to the other Sneed issue, contract compensation. We'll never know if the Colts were actually in on Sneed or not, but there were rumors at one point that he wanted 22m AAV, and he ended up signing for 19m AAV. Yes, those rumors could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sneed would want more from the Colts than he would from the Titans to compensate for the tax difference.

I read 4-years/$76m with $55m of it guaranteed. That's a shitload guaranteed with an injury concern.

[ChoppedWood]

I understand the frustration, but there are a lot of factors that we don't and won't ever know. Yes, the Titans got him for a 3 next year, but the Chiefs may be thinking that it's very likely that the Titans will have a high pick next year. They may have wanted a 2025 2 from the Colts, since it's much more likely that the Colts will have a much lower pick than the Titans in 2025. Then there's the issues with Sneed. First, we have no idea what the medicals on his knee are, but apparently they were concerning for several NFL teams. Many of the same people who are complaining that Ballard didn't pull the trigger on this now are the same people who would say "Ballard got fleeced by the Chiefs" if he gave up next year's 2 and Sneed suffered a season ending knee injury in camp or at the beginning of the season. Finally, the Colts have a very unique disadvantage in the NFL, as they are the only team in a division where all of their division rivals don't have a state income tax, but they do. Which leads me to the other Sneed issue, contract compensation. We'll never know if the Colts were actually in on Sneed or not, but there were rumors at one point that he wanted 22m AAV, and he ended up signing for 19m AAV. Yes, those rumors could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sneed would want more from the Colts than he would from the Titans to compensate for the tax difference.

He probably told Ballard he wanted a ham sandwich free from the cafeteria every day and Ballard called his bluff on that shit. Over three years, prob saved the franchise $432. Good move Ballard, good fucking move.

Constantly, perpetually, hypothesizing why the dude sits on his hands as some form of justification for him just SUCKING as a GM. Dude is just lazy and entitled and doesn't give a fuck about much other than that paycheck.

[IndyNorm]

I understand the frustration, but there are a lot of factors that we don't and won't ever know. Yes, the Titans got him for a 3 next year, but the Chiefs may be thinking that it's very likely that the Titans will have a high pick next year. They may have wanted a 2025 2 from the Colts, since it's much more likely that the Colts will have a much lower pick than the Titans in 2025. Then there's the issues with Sneed. First, we have no idea what the medicals on his knee are, but apparently they were concerning for several NFL teams. Many of the same people who are complaining that Ballard didn't pull the trigger on this now are the same people who would say "Ballard got fleeced by the Chiefs" if he gave up next year's 2 and Sneed suffered a season ending knee injury in camp or at the beginning of the season. Finally, the Colts have a very unique disadvantage in the NFL, as they are the only team in a division where all of their division rivals don't have a state income tax, but they do. Which leads me to the other Sneed issue, contract compensation. We'll never know if the Colts were actually in on Sneed or not, but there were rumors at one point that he wanted 22m AAV, and he ended up signing for 19m AAV. Yes, those rumors could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sneed would want more from the Colts than he would from the Titans to compensate for the tax difference.

If there were medical concerns then fair enough. The other possible excuses I'm not buying. We could have outbid Teen w/ a 3rd rounder this year or included a day 3 pick instead of a swap as the kicker, etc. Also, the IN income tax rate per the IN.gov website is 3.05%, which for $19M is $665K. Obviously to us that's a shit ton of money, but in terms of NFL salary cap it's a drop in the bucket.

[Hoopsdoc]

Yeah, I’m off the Sneed bandwagon. He was the most penalized cornerback in the league in 2023. He’s also 27 and coming off a serious knee injury. He’s never made a pro bowl or an all pro.

He’s a much more expensive Rock Ya-Sin.

I’ll pass on that much money for that player.

Also, what in the hell are the Titans doing? If Levis is really good their moves may make sense but nobody knows how good he is yet.

Seems like they’re putting an awful lot of eggs in that basket.

[apballin]

Honestly wasn’t a big fan of trying to get Sneed anyway, he played in a way more aggressive defense that isn’t happening here. Colts defense is built on front 4 pressure. No need to overpay a guy looking to cash out because he’s already a champion. Value just wasn’t there for the Colts especially when there’s a lot of good CBs in this years draft

[ChoppedWood]

Yeah, I’m off the Sneed bandwagon. He was the most penalized cornerback in the league in 2023. He’s also 27 and coming off a serious knee injury. He’s never made a pro bowl or an all pro.

He’s a much more expensive Rock Ya-Sin.

I’ll pass on that much money for that player.

Also, what in the hell are the Titans doing? If Levis is really good their moves may make sense but nobody knows how good he is yet.

Seems like they’re putting an awful lot of eggs in that basket.

I characterize it as- playing as if every year offers a chance. Injuries to opponents, lack of chemistry, etc... this is the NFL, you just never know- and the Colts of 23-24 are a prime example with the loss of AR but right there until the very final play of their season with a career backup.

To me, that's the difference betwen a good GM and a bum, not planning 27 fucking years downstream, instead putting all the eggs in a basket looking to win each year. Ballard's still strategizing for 2027 being "the year" --- his strategy fucking doesn't work, the proof is in the results. 1 PO win in 8 years, no division titles.... he fucking sucks.

[Dewey 5]

We could have had Sneed but dipshit Ballard drafted the legendary QB Jacob Eason instead.

[ukcolt]

So the following 2023 Titans have already signed with other teams:
RB - Derrick Henry - we all know how good he is
DT - Denico Autry - 11.5 sacks last year
LB - Azeez Al-Shaair - starting LB with 141 tackles
CB - Sean Murphy-Bunting - started 10 games last year
C - Aaron Brewer Started every game last 2 years.
T - Andre Dillard - Started 10 games last year.
WR - Chris Moore - 5 game starter with over 400 yards receiving.
CB - Kristian Fulton - Started all games played over past 3 years (35)


They then have the following guys who are free agents:
QB - Ryan Tannehill - again we know all about him.
S - Terrell Edmunds - Their 3 safety.
T - Chris Hubbard - started all 9 games until injury last year.
TE - Trevon Wesco - started 10 games as the No. 2 TE.
DL - Kyle Peko - started 10 games
DL - Marlon Davidson - started 3 games.



They have signed:
RB - Tony Pollard - a rotational back, nowhere near the level of Henry
WR - Calvin Ridley - will help the offense
C - Lloyd Cushenberry - big money signee from Broncos, who has started every game he has played in.
LB - Kenneth Murray - Chargers declined his 5th year option, a decent player, but nothing special.
QB - Mason Rudolph - who cares?
OL - Saahdiq Charles - Considered a bust in Washington.
NT - Sebastian Joseph - cut by the Chargers towards end of last year.
CB - Chidobe Awuzie - A decent player, but lost his starting role to a rookie last year.
CB - L'Jarius Sneed - a very good CB


Do we really think that the Titans are better after free agency????

[Dewey 5]

So the following 2023 Titans have already signed with other teams:
RB - Derrick Henry - we all know how good he is
DT - Denico Autry - 11.5 sacks last year
LB - Azeez Al-Shaair - starting LB with 141 tackles
CB - Sean Murphy-Bunting - started 10 games last year
C - Aaron Brewer Started every game last 2 years.
T - Andre Dillard - Started 10 games last year.
WR - Chris Moore - 5 game starter with over 400 yards receiving.
CB - Kristian Fulton - Started all games played over past 3 years (35)


They then have the following guys who are free agents:
QB - Ryan Tannehill - again we know all about him.
S - Terrell Edmunds - Their 3 safety.
T - Chris Hubbard - started all 9 games until injury last year.
TE - Trevon Wesco - started 10 games as the No. 2 TE.
DL - Kyle Peko - started 10 games
DL - Marlon Davidson - started 3 games.



They have signed:
RB - Tony Pollard - a rotational back, nowhere near the level of Henry
WR - Calvin Ridley - will help the offense
C - Lloyd Cushenberry - big money signee from Broncos, who has started every game he has played in.
LB - Kenneth Murray - Chargers declined his 5th year option, a decent player, but nothing special.
QB - Mason Rudolph - who cares?
OL - Saahdiq Charles - Considered a bust in Washington.
NT - Sebastian Joseph - cut by the Chargers towards end of last year.
CB - Chidobe Awuzie - A decent player, but lost his starting role to a rookie last year.
CB - L'Jarius Sneed - a very good CB


Do we really think that the Titans are better after free agency????
Who cares? The point is that we're not.

[ukcolt]

Because people are trying to make the point that the rest of the teams in the AFC south are suddenly so much better than the Colts. Which I just disagree with on so many levels.

The Colts philosophy has always been the draft, so our natural improvement is through the development of our own players and them improving year on year. So next year the young guys who saw playing time will be improved etc.

Can you say we have got worse? If not and our roster has remained much the same, come next year we are likely to be better.

Other teams have a similar philosophy and their rosters will of course develop as well. But the Colts are consistently one of the better teams in terms of the draft.

We also manage our cap really well, so that we don't lose players year after year that we might want to keep.

What we have missed for quite a few years is elite QB play. Which hopefully we have now secured, but that is still to be proven.

In my opinion, and i know not everyone agrees with this, is that this is probably one of the best rosters i can recall the Colts having from top to bottom. The fact that we were able to be competitive in almost every game is testament to that, along with quality coaching. But coaches are meant to be getting the maximum out of players, and then making the right calls in the crucial moments of games.

[Thorgrim]

I think this cements a corner (Mitchell/Arnold) in round one now. I’m fine with that but am still a bit miffed that we haven’t brought in some more outside talent to start, provide depth, or provide a solid veteran presence. I wonder if one of Simmons, Blackmon, Clowney, or Gilmore is still within the budget.

[ukcolt]

I also wonder if i am actually in the minority with my opinion that the roster is good. Or if it just the whiney bitchy community who complain when the sun rises in the east each day, and that they just shout the loudest.

[apballin]

I think this cements a corner (Mitchell/Arnold) in round one now. I’m fine with that but am still a bit miffed that we haven’t brought in some more outside talent to start, provide depth, or provide a solid veteran presence. I wonder if one of Simmons, Blackmon, Clowney, or Gilmore is still within the budget.

I was thinking the same thing until Mitchell’s pro day and he said he’s not met with the Colts, almost makes you wonder if they might go Chop Robinson or Latu

[jasperhobbs]

The colts dodged a bullet not signing Sneed. Too much money for not a true shutdown corner

[Dam8610]

He probably told Ballard he wanted a ham sandwich free from the cafeteria every day and Ballard called his bluff on that shit. Over three years, prob saved the franchise $432. Good move Ballard, good fucking move.

Constantly, perpetually, hypothesizing why the dude sits on his hands as some form of justification for him just SUCKING as a GM. Dude is just lazy and entitled and doesn't give a fuck about much other than that paycheck.

Please demonstrate this "SUCKING as a GM" you refer to. His job is putting talent on the roster, and the roster was talented enough last year that it almost won the division with the backup QB starting 13 games, and it was the backup QB that cost them that chance in the end. He's also consistently pulled 2 or more starters out of every draft class, and quite frankly has been a better overall drafter than Bill Polian, who is a Hall of Famer and as a GM responsible for the most successful era of Colts football.

If there were medical concerns then fair enough. The other possible excuses I'm not buying. We could have outbid Teen w/ a 3rd rounder this year or included a day 3 pick instead of a swap as the kicker, etc. Also, the IN income tax rate per the IN.gov website is 3.05%, which for $19M is $665K. Obviously to us that's a shit ton of money, but in terms of NFL salary cap it's a drop in the bucket.

I believe it was a combination of all of the factors listed above, but honestly we don't even really know if the Colts were ever in on him at all. Schefter says they weren't, but I'm not 100% sure I buy that. As far as the state tax thing, you're leaving out the local tax that pushes Indiana's tax rate closer to 5% and varies based on both where you live and work.

But I will say that if the Colts could've gotten him for a similar package, then I really hope their problem was that they didn't like the medicals, because the trade compensation was a bargain price and the contract he signed isn't terrible if he continues to perform at a high level and doesn't get hurt.

[Dam8610]

I think this cements a corner (Mitchell/Arnold) in round one now. I’m fine with that but am still a bit miffed that we haven’t brought in some more outside talent to start, provide depth, or provide a solid veteran presence. I wonder if one of Simmons, Blackmon, Clowney, or Gilmore is still within the budget.

The CBs that fit the profile of what they've drafted recently are in mid-late Day 2. I wouldn't be upset with Mitchell or Arnold, only mildly disappointed at the opportunity cost, but I still think they're going to trade back and draft a WR. I also wouldn't mind trading back and drafting an elite edge rusher, or just outright drafting an elite edge rusher, but that doesn't seem to be the direction they want to go.

[Dam8610]

I characterize it as- playing as if every year offers a chance. Injuries to opponents, lack of chemistry, etc... this is the NFL, you just never know- and the Colts of 23-24 are a prime example with the loss of AR but right there until the very final play of their season with a career backup.

To me, that's the difference betwen a good GM and a bum, not planning 27 fucking years downstream, instead putting all the eggs in a basket looking to win each year. Ballard's still strategizing for 2027 being "the year" --- his strategy fucking doesn't work, the proof is in the results. 1 PO win in 8 years, no division titles.... he fucking sucks.

Ah, you're one of those. Simple question for you: who is the better GM, Chris Ballard or Ryan Grigson?

[Colts And Orioles]

I also wonder if i am actually in the minority with my opinion that the roster is good. Or if it just the whiney bitchy community who complain when the sun rises in the east each day, and that they just shout the loudest.





o


Substitute a healthy Anthony Richardson for Gardner Minshew for the entire 2023 season, and I believe that the Colts would have won the AFC South ...... and that's a raw, inexperienced rookie Anthony Richardson ...... it's quite possible that an Anthony Richardson with 2 or 3 years of NFL experience under his belt may have had the Colts competing with the Bills, the Chiefs, and the Ravens for a spot in the AFC championship game. ) *


* ) The above statement is my rat's ass of an opinion, which along with $18 will get you a one-way ticket from Brewster, NY to Grand Central Station in New York City.

o

[ChaosTheory]

Who cares? The point is that we're not.

How exactly are we not? Why does the boatload of free agents we re-signed not count? Because we drafted them? They were free agents, they could have left the team. Something a lot of teams have to deal with more than us.

Take off the "already on the team goggles" and you see that we signed:

-One of the best WR available in FA
-One of the best DT in FA (possibly the best NT specifically?)
-One of the best CB in FA (possibly the best Slot specifically?)
-By way of extension, one of the best MLB that would have been a FA
-A bunch of quality depth pieces that have continuity on the team.

Those top four in particular... if another team swooped in and signed them away from us, that's a headline-worthy FA-splash for that team. For some reason, we don't want to look at it the same when it's a "re-signing."

[Dewey 5]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2024/3/23/24109789/chris-ballards-reticence-to-change-his-approach-will-end-up-losing-him-the-job

[Dam8610]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2024/3/23/24109789/chris-ballards-reticence-to-change-his-approach-will-end-up-losing-him-the-job

Maybe you'll answer: Who is the better GM, Chris Ballard or Ryan Grigson?

[apballin]

The CBs that fit the profile of what they've drafted recently are in mid-late Day 2. I wouldn't be upset with Mitchell or Arnold, only mildly disappointed at the opportunity cost, but I still think they're going to trade back and draft a WR. I also wouldn't mind trading back and drafting an elite edge rusher, or just outright drafting an elite edge rusher, but that doesn't seem to be the direction they want to go.

What’s your take on Austin Booker?

[Dewey 5]

Maybe you'll answer: Who is the better GM, Chris Ballard or Ryan Grigson?

Ballard by a hair.

[Dam8610]

What’s your take on Austin Booker?

More traits than substance, Ballard I think will like both he and Jalyx Hunt for their traits, and I wouldn't be surprisedif the Colts end up drafting one of them. If the Colts are going to take a Day 2 or Day 3 edge rusher, my hope is it's Mo Kamara. He looks so very much like Robert Mathis. 6'1" 250 sub 4.6 40 and just gets after the QB, causes a lot of fumbles as well.

Ballard by a hair.

It's Ballard by leagues, and if you want proof, you need look no further than the Colts last 12, soon to be 13 drafts. You'll start seeing the good classes when Ballard took over.

[rm1369]

It's Ballard by leagues, and if you want proof, you need look no further than the Colts last 12, soon to be 13 drafts. You'll start seeing the good classes when Ballard took over.

Definitely look at Ballards drafts and not his results, because nothing in the results say he’s anything but mediocre. I guess you are technically correct though - better than Grigson. Not exactly high praise. The single smartest decision Ballard has ever made was following Grigson. 8 years in to a rebuild where he’s had more coaching searches than playoff appearances and many fans think he’s doing good because he’s not Grigson.

[Hoopsdoc]

I characterize it as- playing as if every year offers a chance. Injuries to opponents, lack of chemistry, etc... this is the NFL, you just never know- and the Colts of 23-24 are a prime example with the loss of AR but right there until the very final play of their season with a career backup.

To me, that's the difference betwen a good GM and a bum, not planning 27 fucking years downstream, instead putting all the eggs in a basket looking to win each year. Ballard's still strategizing for 2027 being "the year" --- his strategy fucking doesn't work, the proof is in the results. 1 PO win in 8 years, no division titles.... he fucking sucks.

Yeah, I prefer Ballards method of continuously building the roster through the draft to what the Titans are apparently doing, which is going all in and rolling the dice.

The odds that Levis is any good are not good and if he isn’t, they’re screwed for a while.

[YDFL Commish]

I was thinking the same thing until Mitchell’s pro day and he said he’s not met with the Colts, almost makes you wonder if they might go Chop Robinson or Latu

Do not prioritize the Colts lack of visits with a potential draftee as anything other than hyperbole.

[Racehorse]

Definitely look at Ballards drafts and not his results, because nothing in the results say he’s anything but mediocre. I guess you are technically correct though - better than Grigson. Not exactly high praise. The single smartest decision Ballard has ever made was following Grigson. 8 years in to a rebuild where he’s had more coaching searches than playoff appearances and many fans think he’s doing good because he’s not Grigson.

How many coaching searches has he had? I count 2. How many playoff appearances? I also count 2.

[rm1369]

How many coaching searches has he had? I count 2. How many playoff appearances? I also count 2.

Searched after Pagano and picked McDaniels. Got stood up (thankfully) and then opened it back up and met with new candidates and landed on Reich. Then the search for Steichen. His first search was such a disaster he got an immediate redo. And it wasn’t just that McDaniels backed out, his performance since proved Ballard’s choice was shitty from the get go. I count 3.

[Dam8610]

Definitely look at Ballards drafts and not his results, because nothing in the results say he’s anything but mediocre. I guess you are technically correct though - better than Grigson. Not exactly high praise. The single smartest decision Ballard has ever made was following Grigson. 8 years in to a rebuild where he’s had more coaching searches than playoff appearances and many fans think he’s doing good because he’s not Grigson.

I think he's doing good because he's a better drafter than Polian, and unlike both Polian and Grigson, his tenure did not begin with the blessing of a franchise QB falling into his lap at #1 overall. Quite the opposite, 3 years into his tenure, the franchise QB he thought he had retired in shocking and unexpected fashion. He worked through that and still somehow got the Colts to the playoffs once despite having no solution at the NFL's most important position. He finally was able to draft his guy in 2023, and that guy got hurt at the beginning of the season. Anthony Richardson will play his age 22 season in 2024, and we're going to act like the guy that put a roster together than nearly won the division without him isn't doing enough? Ballard finally has his franchise QB in place, he should have more than 4 games with him before we're saying he can't succeed with him.

[YDFL Commish]

I think he's doing good because he's a better drafter than Polian, and unlike both Polian and Grigson, his tenure did not begin with the blessing of a franchise QB falling into his lap at #1 overall. Quite the opposite, 3 years into his tenure, the franchise QB he thought he had retired in shocking and unexpected fashion. He worked through that and still somehow got the Colts to the playoffs once despite having no solution at the NFL's most important position. He finally was able to draft his guy in 2023, and that guy got hurt at the beginning of the season. Anthony Richardson will play his age 22 season in 2024, and we're going to act like the guy that put a roster together than nearly won the division without him isn't doing enough? Ballard finally has his franchise QB in place, he should have more than 4 games with him before we're saying he can't succeed with him.

Holy fuck no....he's not a better drafter than Polian. This is not even a di csussion.

[sherck]

Who cares? The point is that we're not.
Translated:

Who cares because Ballard is not being active in free agency and EVERYONE knows that being active = winning free agency!

I only have 0.563% the football knowledge of Chris Ballard but since he is letting football players who are either too expensive or don't fit our system sign with other teams, that means he is bad, bad, bad and I hates him. No biscuit for you!

The door is ========> That way.....

[rm1369]

I think he's doing good because he's a better drafter than Polian, and unlike both Polian and Grigson, his tenure did not begin with the blessing of a franchise QB falling into his lap at #1 overall. Quite the opposite, 3 years into his tenure, the franchise QB he thought he had retired in shocking and unexpected fashion. He worked through that and still somehow got the Colts to the playoffs once despite having no solution at the NFL's most important position. He finally was able to draft his guy in 2023, and that guy got hurt at the beginning of the season. Anthony Richardson will play his age 22 season in 2024, and we're going to act like the guy that put a roster together than nearly won the division without him isn't doing enough? Ballard finally has his franchise QB in place, he should have more than 4 games with him before we're saying he can't succeed with him.

Ballard is an above average drafter, but I don’t believe he knows how to actually win. Drafting talent and assembling a winning team are different things and I have seen exactly zero evidence he’s capable of the latter. If it weren’t for Irsay stepping in it is very likely AR would not be the Colts franchise QB. Without the shit show of Reich’s firing and the hiring of Saturday the team likely finishes middle of the pack again. Ballard’s history and his past comments say he wouldn’t have went and got AR. And I’m not positive the team ends up with Steichen. Does Ballard fire Reich? I don’t think so. I criticized Irsay heavily when things went down, but it’s clear he saw that the team needed something to change because Ballard was leading them no where. And Irsay was absolutely right. The team has hope now because of Irsay’s decision. Ballard made good choices when forced into the situation, but he didn’t see the big picture. Notice a trend? We’ll see how this off season ends, but it looks like it will go like it usually does - prioritizing future flexibility over solutions now, throw a bunch of young guys at a problem and hope. It has cost the team almost every year under Ballard. But at least the future cap looks good!

If they miss the playoffs again will you start to change your mind on Ballard’s ultra conservative approach? If they finish 3rd (or worse) in the division again? How many years or rebuilding become too many before you need a different approach? Or as long as he drafts a decent player or two, wins don’t matter? It’s easy to think that as long as he drafts well everything else will work out. But let’s remember the career of his greatest draft pick has already started, peaked, and pretty much ended. How many more years will DeFo remain a monster? How long does most RB careers last? How often is Nelson injured and how long does his back hold out? None of those are in Ballards control and it’s not his fault when they happen….but it will be his fault when this team never peaks with those guys because Ballard was always too worried about next year.

[rm1369]

Translated:

Who cares because Ballard is not being active in free agency and EVERYONE knows that being active = winning free agency!

I only have 0.563% the football knowledge of Chris Ballard but since he is letting football players who are either too expensive or don't fit our system sign with other teams, that means he is bad, bad, bad and I hates him. No biscuit for you!

The door is ========> That way.....

I get tired of this argument. That everyone is bitching because he didn’t sign X or Y free agent. That’s not it for many. The issue is an overall philosophy that prioritizes next year. Always. Sign or trade for a 40+ yr old QB. No rush - we got time to deal with WR next year (Rivers) or time for a 3rd round rookie LT (who has only played the position for 2 yrs) to develop (Ryan). It doesn’t matter the QB situation (young, old) Ballard has time to wait. Time enough for the Texans to also lose their franchise QB, bottom out, rebuild, and win the division. Ballard keeps saying he sees his mistakes and I keep hoping he does. I want him to be good. I want to believe he will be aggressive and try to win. There is a lot of off-season left. Right now it’s looking a lot like Deja vu.

[Dam8610]

Holy fuck no....he's not a better drafter than Polian. This is not even a di csussion.

Compare their drafts. The big advantage Ballard has over Polian is he doesn't waste what is now Day 2. Polian was great on what are now Days 1 and 3 and terrible on what is now Day 2. Ballard does well in all rounds.

[Dam8610]

Ballard is an above average drafter, but I don’t believe he knows how to actually win. Drafting talent and assembling a winning team are different things and I have seen exactly zero evidence he’s capable of the latter. If it weren’t for Irsay stepping in it is very likely AR would not be the Colts franchise QB. Without the shit show of Reich’s firing and the hiring of Saturday the team likely finishes middle of the pack again. Ballard’s history and his past comments say he wouldn’t have went and got AR. And I’m not positive the team ends up with Steichen. Does Ballard fire Reich? I don’t think so. I criticized Irsay heavily when things went down, but it’s clear he saw that the team needed something to change because Ballard was leading them no where. And Irsay was absolutely right. The team has hope now because of Irsay’s decision. Ballard made good choices when forced into the situation, but he didn’t see the big picture. Notice a trend? We’ll see how this off season ends, but it looks like it will go like it usually does - prioritizing future flexibility over solutions now, throw a bunch of young guys at a problem and hope. It has cost the team almost every year under Ballard. But at least the future cap looks good!

If they miss the playoffs again will you start to change your mind on Ballard’s ultra conservative approach? If they finish 3rd (or worse) in the division again? How many years or rebuilding become too many before you need a different approach? Or as long as he drafts a decent player or two, wins don’t matter? It’s easy to think that as long as he drafts well everything else will work out. But let’s remember the career of his greatest draft pick has already started, peaked, and pretty much ended. How many more years will DeFo remain a monster? How long does most RB careers last? How often is Nelson injured and how long does his back hold out? None of those are in Ballards control and it’s not his fault when they happen….but it will be his fault when this team never peaks with those guys because Ballard was always too worried about next year.

Honestly, I know it will be an unpopular opinion, especially for those who are very impatient now, but I think giving Ballard 2-3 years with a franchise QB in place is reasonable, and of course it also depends on what happens with Richardson. If he keeps getting injured, that's partially on Ballard for picking him over other options that were available, but if the team still has success, do you really want to get rid of the best drafting front office the organization has ever had? This team was 1 errant Gardner Minshew throw away from winning the division without AR. I could see this level of ire if they were coming off a 5-11 season, but the current situation is cause for optimism, not ire.

[ChoppedWood]

Please demonstrate this "SUCKING as a GM" you refer to. His job is putting talent on the roster, and the roster was talented enough last year that it almost won the division with the backup QB starting 13 games, and it was the backup QB that cost them that chance in the end. He's also consistently pulled 2 or more starters out of every draft class, and quite frankly has been a better overall drafter than Bill Polian, who is a Hall of Famer and as a GM responsible for the most successful era of Colts football.



In Ballard's 7 seasons, the Colts have compiled a record of 54-60-1. They've made 2 playoff appearances, won 1 postseason game and captured 0 division titles.

Not sure by what standard the above is anything but suck, but okay, I am sure you have a hundred thousand qualifiers why the above can't be viewed as sucking.

Sorry, I do acknowledge that it was cloudy on some of those days and there were a couple where the weather was so bad a wind breaker was required. Definitely less than optimal conditions so I acknowledge that hardship he has had to work with. Poor guy.

Dude is a fucking tight wad who is constantly looking forward, looking to build for the following year. He pays the wrong damn positions big dollars.

[Dam8610]

In Ballard's 7 seasons, the Colts have compiled a record of 54-60-1. They've made 2 playoff appearances, won 1 postseason game and captured 0 division titles.

Not sure by what standard the above is anything but suck, but okay, I am sure you have a hundred thousand qualifiers why the above can't be viewed as sucking.

Sorry, I do acknowledge that it was cloudy on some of those days and there were a couple where the weather was so bad a wind breaker was required. Definitely less than optimal conditions so I acknowledge that hardship he has had to work with. Poor guy.

Dude is a fucking tight wad who is constantly looking forward, looking to build for the following year. He pays the wrong damn positions big dollars.

Thank you for confirming that you're measuring with the wrong stick. The Colts have had a top 10-15 QB in exactly 2 of Ballard's 8 seasons. Both times, the team made the playoffs. Is the lack of overall team success frustrating? Sure, but the lack of success hasn't been for lack of talent on the roster. It's been because the QB position became an unexpected issue in year 3 of Ballard's tenure, and he's put together high quality rosters around that despite not having the answer at QB that came close to making the playoffs without a quality QB several times. If Richardson I'd the answer at QB, we're in for a run like the 2000s. That's worth giving Ballard the chance to get there.

[rm1369]

Honestly, I know it will be an unpopular opinion, especially for those who are very impatient now, but I think giving Ballard 2-3 years with a franchise QB in place is reasonable, and of course it also depends on what happens with Richardson. If he keeps getting injured, that's partially on Ballard for picking him over other options that were available, but if the team still has success, do you really want to get rid of the best drafting front office the organization has ever had? This team was 1 errant Gardner Minshew throw away from winning the division without AR. I could see this level of ire if they were coming off a 5-11 season, but the current situation is cause for optimism, not ire.

The weird thing is, if the team fails because of AR I’m more likely to give Ballard more time. As stated, I don’t fully give Ballard credit for AR so I’m also not going to hold him fully responsible for AR either. He was a risky pick, but the right pick given the situation. So missing the playoffs next year isn’t an automatic “fire Ballard” for me at this point - assuming the issue is AR not developing or being injury prone and not the lack of support from the rest of the team. If they go into the season with a raw secondary lacking proven even replacement level talent at CB or safety, if they again throw a mess of rookies and unproven young guys at the problem then I’m done with Ballard. And honestly that’s regardless of outcome. Playoffs or no playoffs. And it may be the case if the pass rush falls off like I fear may happen. Reports were Ballard was after Hunter, offered more, and he chose Texans. I’ll give him some leeway while I also recognize his history says he ALWAYS only looks for bargains so I’m confident he didn’t put out an offer Hunter couldn’t resist. Maybe that’s “smart” but the lack of aggressiveness is part of the reason the team is where it’s at. It’s where that great salary cap position should be used - to stretch on a need. Any one player or situation can be written off, but with Ballard it’s a philosophy. One I believe has and will continue to hurt the team until he changes or he’s gone.

[Dam8610]

The weird thing is, if the team fails because of AR I’m more likely to give Ballard more time. As stated, I don’t fully give Ballard credit for AR so I’m also not going to hold him fully responsible for AR either. He was a risky pick, but the right pick given the situation. So missing the playoffs next year isn’t an automatic “fire Ballard” for me at this point - assuming the issue is AR not developing or being injury prone and not the lack of support from the rest of the team. If they go into the season with a raw secondary lacking proven even replacement level talent at CB or safety, if they again throw a mess of rookies and unproven young guys at the problem then I’m done with Ballard. And honestly that’s regardless of outcome. Playoffs or no playoffs. And it may be the case if the pass rush falls off like I fear may happen. Reports were Ballard was after Hunter, offered more, and he chose Texans. I’ll give him some leeway while I also recognize his history says he ALWAYS only looks for bargains so I’m confident he didn’t put out an offer Hunter couldn’t resist. Maybe that’s “smart” but the lack of aggressiveness is part of the reason the team is where it’s at. It’s where that great salary cap position should be used - to stretch on a need. Any one player or situation can be written off, but with Ballard it’s a philosophy. One I believe has and will continue to hurt the team until he changes or he’s gone.

To be a successful organization long term, you have to trust the players you draft to develop and become good players. Everyone is upset the Colts didn't get L'Jarius Sneed right now, the Chiefs drafted him with a 4th round pick, then developed him into a good player. Would it have been nice to get Sneed or Hunter? Yes, but if Brents, Jones, or Flowers doesn't develop into a good starter, it won't matter how much pass rush the Colts get or who the starter on the opposite side of them is. And if the Colts got Hunter, that would've been a 2 year stopgap solution, they still would've needed to find an alpha pass rusher in this draft or the next one. I'd suggest Mo Kamara if they're not willing to invest in Verse or Latu on Day 1. But either way, they will not get where they want to go with a Free Agency spending spree. That was Grigson's style, and it didn't work.

[ChoppedWood]

Thank you for confirming that you're measuring with the wrong stick. The Colts have had a top 10-15 QB in exactly 2 of Ballard's 8 seasons. Both times, the team made the playoffs. Is the lack of overall team success frustrating? Sure, but the lack of success hasn't been for lack of talent on the roster. It's been because the QB position became an unexpected issue in year 3 of Ballard's tenure, and he's put together high quality rosters around that despite not having the answer at QB that came close to making the playoffs without a quality QB several times. If Richardson I'd the answer at QB, we're in for a run like the 2000s. That's worth giving Ballard the chance to get there.

Measuring by the wrong stick, that's a great one. Last I checked, every single team in the history of sports has been measured by wins and losses, by playoff appearances, and by championships played in and won.

You go ahead and use whatever fucking obtuse other measures for success you wish. I'm gonna go with the tried and true standard used for now hundreds of years.

[rm1369]

To be a successful organization long term, you have to trust the players you draft to develop and become good players. Everyone is upset the Colts didn't get L'Jarius Sneed right now, the Chiefs drafted him with a 4th round pick, then developed him into a good player. Would it have been nice to get Sneed or Hunter? Yes, but if Brents, Jones, or Flowers doesn't develop into a good starter, it won't matter how much pass rush the Colts get or who the starter on the opposite side of them is. And if the Colts got Hunter, that would've been a 2 year stopgap solution, they still would've needed to find an alpha pass rusher in this draft or the next one. I'd suggest Mo Kamara if they're not willing to invest in Verse or Latu on Day 1. But either way, they will not get where they want to go with a Free Agency spending spree. That was Grigson's style, and it didn't work.

I’m not following your logic at all. Yes Hunter would be a two yr stop gap. So what? Two years is an eternity in the NFL. And it buys time to actually develop players. That’s the whole point. No one is denying that the primary source of talent for a team should be the draft. The question is what happens with your weaknesses in the meantime? You can either try to find viable stop gap solutions or gift positions to rookies and accept below average play while they learn. Ballard almost always chooses the latter. Yes it’s cheaper financially but it’s more costly in wins and losses. Rivers probably beats the Bills if Ballard doesn’t kick the can down the road at WR. And if he didn’t think that team could win then fine, but why the hell are you signing a 40 yr old QB for? Certainly not the future. It’s because Ballard doesn’t have a big picture view besides maintaining flexibility for the future. Next year is always more important than this year. It’s a strategy for mediocrity and so far it’s worked to perfection. Only Irsay’s intervention temporarily changed the course.

We’ll have to disagree on Grigson. I fucking hate the guy, but his use of free agency was the one thing he got right. He filled holes. Not that he was always right in his signings, but that’s not what sunk the team. The problem was he never was able to do the second part - draft the talent to eventually fill the positions long term. Ballard mostly can. We just have to wait 1-3 seasons with a gaping hole until the draft aligns with our needs enough to address them. And accept the losses along the way.

[Dam8610]

Measuring by the wrong stick, that's a great one. Last I checked, every single team in the history of sports has been measured by wins and losses, by playoff appearances, and by championships played in and won.

You go ahead and use whatever fucking obtuse other measures for success you wish. I'm gonna go with the tried and true standard used for now hundreds of years.

By that standard, you'd have to say Grigson is a better GM than Ballard, which anyone with half a brain can see is wrong.

I’m not following your logic at all. Yes Hunter would be a two yr stop gap. So what? Two years is an eternity in the NFL. And it buys time to actually develop players. That’s the whole point. No one is denying that the primary source of talent for a team should be the draft. The question is what happens with your weaknesses in the meantime? You can either try to find viable stop gap solutions or gift positions to rookies and accept below average play while they learn. Ballard almost always chooses the latter. Yes it’s cheaper financially but it’s more costly in wins and losses. Rivers probably beats the Bills if Ballard doesn’t kick the can down the road at WR. And if he didn’t think that team could win then fine, but why the hell are you signing a 40 yr old QB for? Certainly not the future. It’s because Ballard doesn’t have a big picture view besides maintaining flexibility for the future. Next year is always more important than this year. It’s a strategy for mediocrity and so far it’s worked to perfection. Only Irsay’s intervention temporarily changed the course.

We’ll have to disagree on Grigson. I fucking hate the guy, but his use of free agency was the one thing he got right. He filled holes. Not that he was always right in his signings, but that’s not what sunk the team. The problem was he never was able to do the second part - draft the talent to eventually fill the positions long term. Ballard mostly can. We just have to wait 1-3 seasons with a gaping hole until the draft aligns with our needs enough to address them. And accept the losses along the way.

The problem with Grigson was that he couldn't draft at all, and he didn't do well in free agency, and that was a big part of what sunk his teams. Ballard can draft, better than most GMs in NFL history. As for last year, Ballard thought that last year would be a development year, so he drafted a secondary to develop. Some improvement in the secondary will come from second year breakouts, plus the Colts kept Kenny Moore. Will that solve everything in the secondary? No, but I'll feel a lot better about the secondary concerns if Blackmon is resigned, or maybe a Justin Simmons signing. That said, successful organizations become that way by drafting and developing players. It won't matter who they sign if they can't draft and develop the replacements.

[rm1369]

Ballard can draft, better than most GMs in NFL history……..

That said, successful organizations become that way by drafting and developing players. It won't matter who they sign if they can't draft and develop the replacements.


I mostly agree with the second statement. However you are saying he can draft replacements and I largely agree. So why isn’t that the team’s philosophy? Why over his 8 years has he almost exclusively relied upon his drafting ability? He should be bringing in vets for the rookies to learn from, compete with, and to bring an acceptable level of play until the young guys develop. That is not the philosophy or strategy - unless he gets a huge bargain, then maybe. They used to claim it was because of the “culture” they wanted to develop and that has shown to be a failure The team has not developed some great winning culture. It’s been much closer to dysfunctional than good.

As for last year, Ballard thought that last year would be a development year, so he drafted a secondary to develop.

Sure I could buy that for last year. Makes sense. Now explain lack of WR to me with Rivers. Explain the OL choices with Ryan. Explain having no DE on the roster with double digit sacks for their entire career with Wentz. Last year was not some situationally specific decision by Ballard, it was a continuation of the philosophy we’ve seen pretty much every year. That’s a big part of my issue with him. I’d love to see some larger, year specific decisions that make sense. We don’t see them. For lack of a better saying he “does what he does”. Every year. Whether the QB is Luck, Rivers, Wentz, or Ryan his words and actions have been the same. So far, no difference with AR. Pretty much every year. You can look at them in isolation and try to explain them away but the trend is obvious. And largely matches his words and stated philosophy.

[Hoopsdoc]

Holy fuck no....he's not a better drafter than Polian. This is not even a di csussion.

Polian drafted Rob Morris, Anthony Gonzalez, and Donald Brown in the first round.

He was good but he certainly wasn’t perfect, as no GM is.

I’d argue that Ballard has been at least as good as Polian.

The fact that Polians very first draft pick was Peyton Manning papered over a lot of his later draft blunders.

[Brylok]

Sneed was never coming to us and I don't mind it, especially at that price and age. The Colts have become the Pacers to me. It's great to have professional sports teams representing where you come from. They aren't going to win much of anythig though. I hope AR will be a superstar...but I have my doubts. Ballard is, to me now, a question of what worse can we get. We haven't won the division since 2014, and we have well short of Luck. Lord help our Colts and they are very boring. In Steichen I trust... everything I guess.

[ChoppedWood]

By that standard, you'd have to say Grigson is a better GM than Ballard, which anyone with half a brain can see is wrong.



The problem with Grigson was that he couldn't draft at all, and he didn't do well in free agency, and that was a big part of what sunk his teams. Ballard can draft, better than most GMs in NFL history. As for last year, Ballard thought that last year would be a development year, so he drafted a secondary to develop. Some improvement in the secondary will come from second year breakouts, plus the Colts kept Kenny Moore. Will that solve everything in the secondary? No, but I'll feel a lot better about the secondary concerns if Blackmon is resigned, or maybe a Justin Simmons signing. That said, successful organizations become that way by drafting and developing players. It won't matter who they sign if they can't draft and develop the replacements.

Ummm I hate Grigson, total douchebag, at the same time one cannot ever claim he didn't lay it all out there going for it.

Ballard never does. Sits on cash that isn't his and thumbs his nose at positions which are critical to winning in the NFL today. He sucks.

[ChaosTheory]

Holy fuck no....he's not a better drafter than Polian. This is not even a di csussion.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he's better, but I think there's definitely a discussion. It's hard to compare a finished HOF career with a relatively young, active one.

Ballard's '18 stands out and he lands guys all over the mid- and late-rounds. We'll see how it looks.

What puts Polian over the top is his ridiculous run of #1 picks in his first 9 seasons with the Colts (Manning, James, Morris, Wayne, Freeney, Clark, Sanders, Jackson, Addai).

4 HOF'ers, 2 All-Pros (Sanders would've been HOF), and a Pro Bowl RB that averaged 140yds in two Super Bowls (could've been XLI MVP). The two unimpressive picks were still at least a SB starter and SB contributor.

[Dam8610]

I mostly agree with the second statement. However you are saying he can draft replacements and I largely agree. So why isn’t that the team’s philosophy? Why over his 8 years has he almost exclusively relied upon his drafting ability? He should be bringing in vets for the rookies to learn from, compete with, and to bring an acceptable level of play until the young guys develop. That is not the philosophy or strategy - unless he gets a huge bargain, then maybe. They used to claim it was because of the “culture” they wanted to develop and that has shown to be a failure The team has not developed some great winning culture. It’s been much closer to dysfunctional than good.



Sure I could buy that for last year. Makes sense. Now explain lack of WR to me with Rivers. Explain the OL choices with Ryan. Explain having no DE on the roster with double digit sacks for their entire career with Wentz. Last year was not some situationally specific decision by Ballard, it was a continuation of the philosophy we’ve seen pretty much every year. That’s a big part of my issue with him. I’d love to see some larger, year specific decisions that make sense. We don’t see them. For lack of a better saying he “does what he does”. Every year. Whether the QB is Luck, Rivers, Wentz, or Ryan his words and actions have been the same. So far, no difference with AR. Pretty much every year. You can look at them in isolation and try to explain them away but the trend is obvious. And largely matches his words and stated philosophy.

Ballard manages a team in a very similar way to Polian. A lot of people didn't like Polian's style, but it proved successful. Further, it's not only been proven successful with the Colts, it's been proven successful across the league. The Chiefs will be going for a third consecutive Super Bowl in the 2024 season, and the biggest reason for that in my opinion was trading away Tyreek Hill. That trade allowed them to draft Trent McDuffie and gave them the cap space to retain Chris Jones. That was a tough trade to make, but the Chiefs have definitely reaped the rewards of making a difficult decision. A decision that if Ballard made, I'm certain most people here, certainly the ones upset with Ballard now, would be calling for his head over. Can I explain every bad decision Ballard has made? Not at all, the Matt Pryor decision was the most baffling decision I've seen a GM not named Ryan Grigson make. That said, Ballard gets more right than he gets wrong, and his draft record is incredible. Replacing him risks getting another Grigson. I'd be very hesitant to replace someone with Ballard's track record knowing that possibility exists.

Ummm I hate Grigson, total douchebag, at the same time one cannot ever claim he didn't lay it all out there going for it.

Ballard never does. Sits on cash that isn't his and thumbs his nose at positions which are critical to winning in the NFL today. He sucks.

Cry more about Ballard not blowing tons of cash in free agency. I hope you do for the next decade.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he's better, but I think there's definitely a discussion. It's hard to compare a finished HOF career with a relatively young, active one.

Ballard's '18 stands out and he lands guys all over the mid- and late-rounds. We'll see how it looks.

What puts Polian over the top is his ridiculous run of #1 picks in his first 9 seasons with the Colts (Manning, James, Morris, Wayne, Freeney, Clark, Sanders, Jackson, Addai).

4 HOF'ers, 2 All-Pros (Sanders would've been HOF), and a Pro Bowl RB that averaged 140yds in two Super Bowls (could've been XLI MVP). The two unimpressive picks were still at least a SB starter and SB contributor.

It took me 7 drafts to make the claim out loud, I wanted to see enough production to justify it. But the results are there. You just said Polian had 2 All-Pros in his whole drafting career here, Ballard did that in 1 draft, and they both made All-Pro as rookies. I don't think Ballard has had a single class that has produced less than 2 quality starters, and several classes have produced 4 starters and that doesn't even count contributing role players, such as rotational DLs and 2nd and 3rd TEs, and I'm not counting DeForest Buckner in his draft history despite the fact that the Colts traded their 2020 1st round pick for him. Polian was better at UDFA than Ballard, but you don't have to be good at UDFA if you pull 4 starters per class from your draft picks. That's an incredible, historically unprecedented hit rate.

[ChaosTheory]

Ummm I hate Grigson, total douchebag, at the same time one cannot ever claim he didn't lay it all out there going for it.

Ballard never does. Sits on cash that isn't his and thumbs his nose at positions which are critical to winning in the NFL today. He sucks.

Sitting on money? It was pointed out in another thread that they just signed like $200m+ worth of contracts.

Grigson laying it all out there is the prime example why that's a shit method, especially if you're incompetent. His best FA moves were the ones that are most similar to Ballard's (which get bitched about), like Jerrell Freeman, Cory Redding, Darius Butler, Matt Hasselbeck, and Mike Adams.

His big splash was Vontae Davis. Great trade, similar to Ballard's trade for Buckner.

What else? Erik Walden? Laron Landry? Multi-year deals for old ass D'Qwell Jackson, Frank Gore, Andre Johnson, Trent Cole? Trading a 1st-Rounder for Trent Richardson. Some of these moves had the writers and fans lined up to blow him for winning the off-season, sure...

What else? Paying dudes like backup Donald Thomas because you already brought in Samson Satele and Mike McGlynn who are getting Andrew Luck mauled on a weekly basis? Donnie Avery, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Hakeem Nicks?

Andrew Luck dragged that team to a fool's gold AFC Championship (we got smoked every time we played a good team, thanks Peyton's torn quad). He dragged that team until he physically couldn't anymore and all that was left to look at was Grigson's smoldering pile of rubble.

Grigson's roster wouldn't have the team on the brink of a division championship with the backup playing all year.

[ChaosTheory]

It took me 7 drafts to make the claim out loud, I wanted to see enough production to justify it. But the results are there. You just said Polian had 2 All-Pros in his whole drafting career here, Ballard did that in 1 draft, and they both made All-Pro as rookies. I don't think Ballard has had a single class that has produced less than 2 quality starters, and several classes have produced 4 starters and that doesn't even count contributing role players, such as rotational DLs and 2nd and 3rd TEs, and I'm not counting DeForest Buckner in his draft history despite the fact that the Colts traded their 2020 1st round pick for him. Polian was better at UDFA than Ballard, but you don't have to be good at UDFA if you pull 4 starters per class from your draft picks. That's an incredible, historically unprecedented hit rate.

Well, actually he drafted 6 All-Pros in 7 years: Manning, James, Wayne, and Freeney (HOF guys) + Bob Sanders and Dallas Clark. Not to mention his BUF days.

But point taken. Like I said, I definitely think there's a discussion even with that.

[Racehorse]

Searched after Pagano and picked McDaniels. Got stood up (thankfully) and then opened it back up and met with new candidates and landed on Reich. Then the search for Steichen. His first search was such a disaster he got an immediate redo. And it wasn’t just that McDaniels backed out, his performance since proved Ballard’s choice was shitty from the get go. I count 3.

I am pretty sure Frank was part of the same search that McDaniels was in, but you do you.

[rm1369]

I am pretty sure Frank was part of the same search that McDaniels was in, but you do you.

Frank was never interviewed until after McDaniels backed out. Per IndyStar:

“When Josh McDaniels stiffed the Colts and reneged on an oral agreement last week to become the team’s next head coach, General Manager Chris Ballard said he would simply revert to his original list and begin meeting with candidates he had not interviewed in the first round. But even a cursory look at the candidates the Colts have considered in recent days shows the Colts did not simply pick up where they left off.

And it is this change of course that brought the Colts to Reich………………………

Ballard didn’t characterize the kind of candidate he would target when he held his post-McDaniels disaster news conference on Wednesday but, rest assured, this shift is not simply coincidental.

There was a clear contrast between the second round of candidates and those targeted immediately after former coach Chuck Pagano was fired six weeks ago. Gone were the shiny objects like McDaniels, the talented but flawed Patriots offensive coordinator, and Matt Nagy, the young, up-and-coming but unproven former Kansas City offensive coordinator.

They were replaced in this round by the likes of Buffalo’s Leslie Frazier, a veteran and steady hand in the Tony Dungy mold, who once led the Minnesota Vikings. Also interviewed was the Saints’ Dan Campbell, perhaps not an X’s and O’s wizard like McDaniels, but a coach who would instill toughness and leadership for a franchise that needs to get back on track.

……….

It was, as a key source explained, absolutely intentional.

Ballard surely had a long list of possibilities before he originally began his search but, interestingly, he pinpointed a certain sort of candidate the first time around.

This time, Ballard went for proven leadership.“

So he wasn’t initially interviewed, Ballard changed what he was looking for, conducted new interviews, and there were several other candidates meeting the new criteria. Sounds like a different search to me. And if I was on here criticizing Ballard for not reevaluating and starting over after McDaniels you would already know this and be defending him. But hey, you do you.

[rm1369]

Ballard manages a team in a very similar way to Polian. A lot of people didn't like Polian's style, but it proved successful. Further, it's not only been proven successful with the Colts, it's been proven successful across the league. The Chiefs will be going for a third consecutive Super Bowl in the 2024 season, and the biggest reason for that in my opinion was trading away Tyreek Hill. That trade allowed them to draft Trent McDuffie and gave them the cap space to retain Chris Jones. That was a tough trade to make, but the Chiefs have definitely reaped the rewards of making a difficult decision. A decision that if Ballard made, I'm certain most people here, certainly the ones upset with Ballard now, would be calling for his head over. Can I explain every bad decision Ballard has made? Not at all, the Matt Pryor decision was the most baffling decision I've seen a GM not named Ryan Grigson make. That said, Ballard gets more right than he gets wrong, and his draft record is incredible. Replacing him risks getting another Grigson. I'd be very hesitant to replace someone with Ballard's track record knowing that possibility exists.

I don’t at all see the connection you are trying to draw between Polian / Ballard and the Chiefs. Especially the trading of Tyreke Hill. That is a move I see neither Polian or Ballard making. Both of them would have paid and kept Hill. For one it was home grown talent and that alone is reason they wouldn’t have traded him. And secondly it was a huge risk for a well established team. Neither one of them are known for their risk taking. The Chiefs roster has changed significantly more than the Colts rosters with Manning did. They have been more aggressive and more adaptive. Which is exactly my complaint with Ballard’s style and the same complaint I had about Polian. I believe a more aggressive roster approach with Manning would have likely ended with less regular season success but more post season success. I’m sure you vehemently disagree.Regardless, I don’t see substantial success using their ultra conservative approach across the league. I see teams that are more adaptive and who take some calculated risks (like the Chiefs) coming out on top.

So let’s be clear, I’m not talking free agent frenzy. I’m saying identifying the major obvious weakness and taking real steps to address at least one of them - beyond planning to fix it in the draft over the next couple seasons. Stretching to get one key piece in Hunter or Sneed is not a frenzy. Another approach is bringing in multiple mid level (not bargain basement) free agents to get at least mid level play while the young guys develop in spots. Neither of those methods are abandoning the principles of building through the draft. And it doesn’t necessarily lead to cap hell.

The value of drafting talent and the need for it to be the primary source of talent is undisputed. And overall I agree Ballard is an above average drafter. The Colts could certainly do worse at that. However I also believe they can do better overall with someone who has a different, less rigid philosophy. My preference is for Ballard to learn and change. So far there is no evidence of that though. I advocate for a controlled aggressive approach from the GM so it makes sense I’d want the same for the owner. Ballard should be running out of rope soon if he’s not capable of adapting.

[Colts And Orioles]

Sitting on money ??? It was pointed out in another thread that they just signed like $200m+ worth of contracts.

Grigson laying it all out there is the prime example why that's a shit method, especially if you're incompetent. His best FA moves were the ones that are most similar to Ballard's (which get bitched about), like Jerrell Freeman, Cory Redding, Darius Butler, Matt Hasselbeck, and Mike Adams.

His big splash was Vontae Davis. Great trade, similar to Ballard's trade for Buckner.

What else? Erik Walden? Laron Landry? Multi-year deals for old ass D'Qwell Jackson, Frank Gore, Andre Johnson, Trent Cole? Trading a 1st-Rounder for Trent Richardson. Some of these moves had the writers and fans lined up to blow him for winning the off-season, sure...

What else? Paying dudes like backup Donald Thomas because you already brought in Samson Satele and Mike McGlynn who are getting Andrew Luck mauled on a weekly basis? Donnie Avery, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Hakeem Nicks?

Andrew Luck dragged that team to a fool's gold AFC Championship (we got smoked every time we played a good team, thanks Peyton's torn quad). He dragged that team until he physically couldn't anymore and all that was left to look at was Grigson's smoldering pile of rubble.

Grigson's roster wouldn't have the team on the brink of a division championship with the backup playing all year.





o


Earlier in the thread, I supposed how the 2023 Colts would have fared with a healthy Anthony Richardson at quarterback ...... your post just gave me the thought of how those 2023 Colts would have fared with a healthy Andrew Luck taking the snaps behind the center.

o

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Cody Benjamin offers his rat's ass of an opinion on the L'Jarius Snead trade.




3 Reasons Why the Chiefs Got So Little From the Titans for Their Super Bowl Champion Cornerback

(By Cody Benjamin)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ljarius-sneed-trade-three-reasons-chiefs-got-so-little-from-titans-for-super-bowl-champion-cornerback/



1) ) The Chiefs weren't set to pay Sneed long-term.

2) ) Sneed is older (27), and his star replacement is already in place.

3) ) CB is a volatile position, and it may be losing some value.

o

[ChaosTheory]

o


Earlier in the thread, I supposed how the 2023 Colts would have fared with a healthy Anthony Richardson at quarterback ...... your post just gave me the thought of how those 2023 Colts would have fared with a healthy Andrew Luck taking the snaps behind the center.

o

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've gone down the same counterfactual thinking road about Andrew Luck on the '23 Colts. In fact, I've also done it with the '19, '20, and '21 teams and they all make me want to cry.

[Dam8610]

I don’t at all see the connection you are trying to draw between Polian / Ballard and the Chiefs. Especially the trading of Tyreke Hill. That is a move I see neither Polian or Ballard making. Both of them would have paid and kept Hill. For one it was home grown talent and that alone is reason they wouldn’t have traded him. And secondly it was a huge risk for a well established team. Neither one of them are known for their risk taking. The Chiefs roster has changed significantly more than the Colts rosters with Manning did. They have been more aggressive and more adaptive. Which is exactly my complaint with Ballard’s style and the same complaint I had about Polian. I believe a more aggressive roster approach with Manning would have likely ended with less regular season success but more post season success. I’m sure you vehemently disagree.Regardless, I don’t see substantial success using their ultra conservative approach across the league. I see teams that are more adaptive and who take some calculated risks (like the Chiefs) coming out on top.

So let’s be clear, I’m not talking free agent frenzy. I’m saying identifying the major obvious weakness and taking real steps to address at least one of them - beyond planning to fix it in the draft over the next couple seasons. Stretching to get one key piece in Hunter or Sneed is not a frenzy. Another approach is bringing in multiple mid level (not bargain basement) free agents to get at least mid level play while the young guys develop in spots. Neither of those methods are abandoning the principles of building through the draft. And it doesn’t necessarily lead to cap hell.

The value of drafting talent and the need for it to be the primary source of talent is undisputed. And overall I agree Ballard is an above average drafter. The Colts could certainly do worse at that. However I also believe they can do better overall with someone who has a different, less rigid philosophy. My preference is for Ballard to learn and change. So far there is no evidence of that though. I advocate for a controlled aggressive approach from the GM so it makes sense I’d want the same for the owner. Ballard should be running out of rope soon if he’s not capable of adapting.

I was stating that Ballard and Polian run teams similarly, and that the method they use is generally the most successful one across the league. The Chiefs are one of the teams that run their franchise in a similar fashion, at least in my opinion.

I brought up the Tyreek Hill trade because it is the type of difficult decision that well run franchises sometimes have to make, and I truly believe that most Colts fans would demand Ballard's head on a pike if he made a move like that, even if it was the right move to make.

I agree with the idea of taking smart, calculated risks, but the ones that you and I think make sense may not be the ones the front office thinks make sense. I probably wouldn't have traded the 13th pick in 2020 for Buckner, but that was a good move. I wanted Hunter, and it was reported that the Colts had the better offer, but players get to choose where they go in free agency.

Also, you keep saying Ballard is an "above average" drafter, that's like calling Peyton Manning an "above average" QB. Ballard is a better drafter than Polian, who is among the best drafters of all-time and whose drafting put him in the Hall of Fame. You don't get rid of that over small irritations.

[IndyNorm]

Catching up on this one. Here's my .02 on several of the things being discussed:

Ballard - No question that Ballard is a MUCH better GM that Grigson, but damn near anybody would be b/c Grigson was completely incompetent.

I think we need to pump the breaks pretty hard on this Ballard is a better GM than Polian talk. When Ballard's teams start reaching Super Bowls (or have any playoff success at all) then I think we can maybe start having that conversation. As far as just drafting goes - I mostly agree w/ Chaos that you can have the conversation, but I do not agree that it's an absolute fact that Ballard is a better drafter. On top of just the amount of all-pros and HOFers that Polian drafted, you have to consider that most of his HRs were at premium positions. Whereas Ballard's haven't been. Something else that you have to consider is that during Polian's tenure the salary cap was more restrictive w/ no rookie salary limits in place, which made it much harder to keep your own and likely led to really good players like Mike Peterson, David Thornton, Steve McKinney being allowed to walk. Something else about Polian is that he tended to be more proactive is drafting replacements 1-2 years ahead of time (Diem and DeMulling in '01 are really good examples of this) while Ballard tends to wait until the vet leaves and tries to replace them w/ a rookie.

Overall though I do think Ballard is a good GM. He definitely drafts well. I do think his reluctance in FA and the fact that he gets scared shitless anytime another team is involved in pursuing a player is concerning. Let's say in a couple of years we're 1-2 players away and could fill that need(s) via FA. Based on his history I doubt Ballard will actually go for it and end up trying to fill the need(s) via the draft as always, which could lead to us missing our window.

Sneed - I'm pretty disappointed that he ended up at Tenn and not here, especially considering that they got him for peanuts w/ draft compensation. He did get signed to a big contract, but it wasn't outrageous. $19M AAV is tied for 7th most at CB and $55M guaranteed is 5th most at CB, which IMO isn't unreasonable considering his production and how much the cap went up this year.

Offseason so far - I would give us a C/C+ so far. It's great that we re-signed most of our own and added some depth at NT. But as of now arguably our weakest area (secondary) is actually weaker w/ the likelihood of losing Blackmon. We really need to replace him w/ a vet and IMO sign a vet at CB as well. Relying on mostly projects, 2nd year guys, and rookies in our secondary is a recipe for disaster IMO. We also need to add weapons in the passing game on O, but I suspect those will come in the draft.

[ukcolt]

I think quoting Diem and DeMulling as drafting replacements is stretching things a little. Diem possibly, he was a 4th round pick who you think will be good depth and maybe become a potential starter, but DeMulling was a 7th rounder flyer, who no-one really knew would become a replacement starter. Could just as easily have been a cut candidate.

[IndyNorm]

I think quoting Diem and DeMulling as drafting replacements is stretching things a little. Diem possibly, he was a 4th round pick who you think will be good depth and maybe become a potential starter, but DeMulling was a 7th rounder flyer, who no-one really knew would become a replacement starter. Could just as easily have been a cut candidate.

Definitely disagree on Diem. I think Polian definitely drafted him w/ the thought of replacing Meadows, which he did end up doing. I also think DeMulling was more than a flyer as Polian was pretty good at drafting IOL in the later rounds or bringing them in as UDFAs. On top of DeMulling there was Jake Scott, Lilja, obviously Saturday, etc.

Either way there was a clear pattern under Polian of drafting replacement players at least 1 year ahead of time, which allowed them to develop and be evaluated. Another example is David Thornton being drafted in '02 and replacing Peterson in '03. I can list several of these (including ones that didn't work out), but the point being is that IMO this is a better strategy than relying on rookies to come in and produce right away which is what Ballard tends to do.

[Dam8610]

Starters by draft:

1998
Peyton Manning
Jerome Pathon? (I wouldn't count him, others might)
Steve McKinney

1999
Edgerrin James
Mike Peterson
Hunter Smith

2000
Rob Morris
Marcus Washington
David Macklin

2001
Reggie Wayne
Ryan Diem
Rick DeMulling

2002
Dwight Freeney
David Thornton

2003
Dallas Clark
Robert Mathis
Cato June

2004
Bob Sanders
Jason David

2005
Marlin Jackson
Kelvin Hayden
Tyjuan Hagler

2006
Joseph Addai
Tim Jennings (though he wasn't really a quality starter as a Colt)
Freddy Keiaho
Charlie Johnson
Antoine Bethea

2007
None

2008
Jacob Tamme
Pierre Garcon

2009
Jerraud Powers
Austin Collie
Pat McAfee

VS

2017
Marlon Mack
Grover Stewart
Anthony Walker Jr.

2018
Quenton Nelson
Shaquille Leonard
Braden Smith
Zaire Franklin

2019
Bobby Okereke
Khari Willis
E.J. Speed

2020*
Michael Pittman Jr.
Jonathan Taylor
Julian Blackmon
Isaiah Rodgers
*Traded 13th overall pick for DeForest Buckner

2021
Kwity Paye
Dayo Odeyingbo
Will Fries

2022**
Alec Pierce
Jelani Woods
Bernhard Raimann
Nick Cross
Rodney Thomas

2023**
Anthony Richardson
Julius Brents
Josh Downs
Blake Freeland
Jaylon Jones

**These drafts are too early to tell, players who have received significant playing time and/or performed well were included.

[IndyNorm]

Starters by draft:

1998
Peyton Manning
Jerome Pathon? (I wouldn't count him, others might)
Steve McKinney

1999
Edgerrin James
Mike Peterson
Hunter Smith

2000
Rob Morris
Marcus Washington
David Macklin

2001
Reggie Wayne
Idrees Bashir
Ryan Diem
Rick DeMulling

2002
Dwight Freeney
David Thornton

2003
Dallas Clark
Mike Doss
Robert Mathis
Cato June

2004
Bob Sanders
Jason David
Jake Scott

2005
Marlin Jackson
Kelvin Hayden
Tyjuan Hagler

2006
Joseph Addai
Tim Jennings (though he wasn't really a quality starter as a Colt)
Freddy Keiaho
Charlie Johnson
Antoine Bethea

2007
Clint Session

2008
Jacob Tamme
Pierre Garcon

2009
Jerraud Powers
Austin Collie
Pat McAfee

VS

2017
Marlon Mack
Grover Stewart
Anthony Walker Jr.

2018
Quenton Nelson
Shaquille Leonard
Braden Smith
Zaire Franklin

2019
Bobby Okereke
Khari Willis
E.J. Speed

2020*
Michael Pittman Jr.
Jonathan Taylor
Julian Blackmon
Isaiah Rodgers
*Traded 13th overall pick for DeForest Buckner

2021
Kwity Paye
Dayo Odeyingbo
Will Fries

2022**
Alec Pierce
Jelani Woods
Bernhard Raimann
Nick Cross
Rodney Thomas

2023**
Anthony Richardson
Julius Brents
Josh Downs
Blake Freeland
Jaylon Jones

**These drafts are too early to tell, players who have received significant playing time and/or performed well were included.

Added some guys you missed from the Polian drafts, and if we're counting Isiah Rodgers then we should probably count some relatively productive part time starters who Polian drafted like Brad Scioli, Larry Tripplett, etc..

Also, despite you notating that it's too early to tell I think you're still trying to count your chickens before they hatch from the past 2 drafts (especially w/ including Cross on that list). Of course I hope you're right on all of them.

Admittedly Polian's drafts definitely declined when he started handing the reigns over to Chris after '06, but the fact that Polian has several HOFers and all pros at premium positions (even if you exclude Peyton) I would still give him the edge over Ballard. Which isn't a knock on Ballard at all. As I stated earlier he does draft well.

[YDFL Commish]

Admittedly Polian's drafts definitely declined when he started handing the reigns over to Chris after '06, but the fact that Polian has several HOFers and all pros at premium positions (even if you exclude Peyton) I would still give him the edge over Ballard. Which isn't a knock on Ballard at all. As I stated earlier he does draft well.

I'll throw this in. To draft starters on teams that are perpetually 12 to 14 win teams is a lot different than drafting starters for 4 to 9 win teams.

[IndyNorm]

I'll throw this in. To draft starters on teams that are perpetually 12 to 14 win teams is a lot different than drafting starters for 4 to 9 win teams.

That's an excellent point!

[ukcolt]

I can see that argument, but i would counter it with having to pay the highest amount of money to your QB, means you have to find cheap draft picks and undrafted free agents to bulk out your roster, as you can't sign many others.

[Dam8610]

Added some guys you missed from the Polian drafts, and if we're counting Isiah Rodgers then we should probably count some relatively productive part time starters who Polian drafted like Brad Scioli, Larry Tripplett, etc..

Also, despite you notating that it's too early to tell I think you're still trying to count your chickens before they hatch from the past 2 drafts (especially w/ including Cross on that list). Of course I hope you're right on all of them.

Admittedly Polian's drafts definitely declined when he started handing the reigns over to Chris after '06, but the fact that Polian has several HOFers and all pros at premium positions (even if you exclude Peyton) I would still give him the edge over Ballard. Which isn't a knock on Ballard at all. As I stated earlier he does draft well.

Bashir was not a good starter and was replaced before the end of his rookie contract, same with Doss. I'll admit I missed Session.

Basically at this point in time, with Ballard having about 5 less draft classes, the deciding factor right now would whether or not Anthony Richardson becomes a superstar.

[Dam8610]

I'll throw this in. To draft starters on teams that are perpetually 12 to 14 win teams is a lot different than drafting starters for 4 to 9 win teams.

That's the effect of having a franchise QB, not good drafting.

[IndyNorm]

Bashir was not a good starter and was replaced before the end of his rookie contract, same with Doss. I'll admit I missed Session.

Basically at this point in time, with Ballard having about 5 less draft classes, the deciding factor right now would whether or not Anthony Richardson becomes a superstar.

Doss was actually let go b/c of injuries and was more productive during his time w/ the Colts than either Willis or Blackmon. Bashir was a little less productive than Willis and Blackmon (at least per game) but still pretty comparable. He was let go b/c we had Doss and Sanders. Here's their stats w/ the Colts (apologies for the format).

GS Tackles Solo Sacks TFL INT FF
Bashir 51 234 165 0 3 5 3
Doss 42 268 205 1 11 7 6
Willis 33 219 161 3.5 7 4 1
Blackmon 46 214 163 1 12 7 2

And it's more than just Peyton vs. AR. Other than Peyton through 6 drafts Polian had drafted a HOF RB, HOF DE, a should be HOF WR, an all-pro DE (and maybe HOFer), and an all-pro TE.

Through 6 drafts Ballard has selected all-pros at OG, OLB, and RB. Q could maybe make the HOF but Leonard won't, and JT probably won't either.

Again, not knocking Ballard. The guy drafts well. But IMO he has a ways to go to be as good as Polian was (Bill, not Chris). It certainly isn't a known fact that Ballard's a better drafter like you claim it is.

Edit: you also need to admit that you forgot Jake Scott.

[ChaosTheory]

I'll throw this in. To draft starters on teams that are perpetually 12 to 14 win teams is a lot different than drafting starters for 4 to 9 win teams.

I wanted to point that out, good call. But I would have framed it more like...

That's the effect of having a franchise QB, not good drafting.

This ^^. Besides comparing a complete vs. incomplete resumé, it makes it really difficult to compare given the QB situation.


@Norm: Good call on some of those overlooked Polian guys. Maybe compared to the 1st-round success rate, but I don't think mid-round stuff is that bad. And that doesn't take into account his undrafted FA (which I know is kind of a separate thing).

[ukcolt]

How many big time free agents did Polian sign? There weren't that many that i can recall, Booger and then from memory I am struggling to think of anyone else, i have probably missed someone.

He had the QB and obviously a lot of major players on the roster as well, like Harrison, Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Glenn etc. But were people complaining about the lack of activity in free agency then? Or did they just accept that the salary cap had already pretty much been spent on keeping our own. Which is a bit like where we are now with the contracts issued to the likes of Pittman, Taylor, Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Franklin, Stewart and Buckner.

[ukcolt]

As much as i love Bill Polian as a GM, from about 2004 where we drafted
Sanders, there would not be many names on that list that non Colts would remember (McAfee, but not from his play). I am not sure that there is a single player drafted that made a pro bowl? Maybe Addai, Bethea?

[ChaosTheory]

How many big time free agents did Polian sign? There weren't that many that i can recall, Booger and then from memory I am struggling to think of anyone else, i have probably missed someone.

He had the QB and obviously a lot of major players on the roster as well, like Harrison, Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Glenn etc. But were people complaining about the lack of activity in free agency then? Or did they just accept that the salary cap had already pretty much been spent on keeping our own. Which is a bit like where we are now with the contracts issued to the likes of Pittman, Taylor, Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Franklin, Stewart and Buckner.

Corey Simon might've been the biggest name free agent he ever took a shot on. And he has said that situation did nothing to assuage his apprehension about signing big free agents.

Other than that, you're talking Booger McFarland, Chad Bratzke, maybe Jeff Burris. Never a truly big-time FA that I remember.

[ChaosTheory]

As much as i love Bill Polian as a GM, from about 2004 where we drafted
Sanders, there would not be many names on that list that non Colts would remember (McAfee, but not from his play). I am not sure that there is a single player drafted that made a pro bowl? Maybe Addai, Bethea?

Well, that standard probably left to the elite players.

But yes, Addai was a PB, Bethea was a PB for us and SF, and McAfee was and All-Pro who was arguably the best in the league for a while.

And again, it's kind of a separate thing, but there's also the undrafted guys like Saturday, Brackett, Rhodes, Bullitt, Terrence Wilkins.

[IndyNorm]

@Norm: Good call on some of those overlooked Polian guys. Maybe compared to the 1st-round success rate, but I don't think mid-round stuff is that bad. And that doesn't take into account his undrafted FA (which I know is kind of a separate thing).

Yeah, I knew there were some guys Dam had left off, but it's been 20+ years so you can't really blame him too much for that. Another thing is Polian was pretty unlucky on some of his mid round picks from his earlier drafts. EG Green showed that he would have been a really good WR if he could have stayed healthy, Joseph Jefferson always looked pretty good the few and far between times when he was healthy, and of course there was the Brandon Burlsworth tragedy :( I realize all GMs have this happen though, which obviously includes Ballard.

Corey Simon might've been the biggest name free agent he ever took a shot on. And he has said that situation did nothing to assuage his apprehension about signing big free agents.

Other than that, you're talking Booger McFarland, Chad Bratzke, maybe Jeff Burris. Never a truly big-time FA that I remember.

Actually Booger was an in season trade, which we probably wouldn't have won the SB if we wouldn't have made it. I had forgotten about Burris.

Polian went pretty heavy in FA in '99. Bratzke was a big FA signing and was one of the top FAs that year. He also gave some relatively big contracts to Cornelius Bennett and Chad Cota. There were some other guys he signed as well, but names escape me as it's been 25 years.

After that Polian signed some mid level guys (Montae Reagor comes to mind), but yeah Corey Simon was really the only big name FA. Even though long term it didn't work out it was still worth taking the shot and worked out in the short term IMO. Unfortunately for us the season got derailed and then Simon decided to sit on his ass and eat twinkies all offseason.

How many big time free agents did Polian sign? There weren't that many that i can recall, Booger and then from memory I am struggling to think of anyone else, i have probably missed someone.

He had the QB and obviously a lot of major players on the roster as well, like Harrison, Wayne, James, Freeney, Mathis, Saturday, Glenn etc. But were people complaining about the lack of activity in free agency then? Or did they just accept that the salary cap had already pretty much been spent on keeping our own. Which is a bit like where we are now with the contracts issued to the likes of Pittman, Taylor, Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Franklin, Stewart and Buckner.


Oh we complained back then too. Not as much though if I can recall, especially during our peak. I think the difference was that (at least in our peak) we didn't have the gaping holes in the roster coupled w/ entering FA with shit tons of cap space under Polian like we have had the past few years under Ballard. Granted a lot of that cap space has gone towards re-signing our own, but I think seeing that number adds to the frustration.

As much as i love Bill Polian as a GM, from about 2004 where we drafted Sanders, there would not be many names on that list that non Colts would remember (McAfee, but not from his play). I am not sure that there is a single player drafted that made a pro bowl? Maybe Addai, Bethea?

As Chaos mentioned Addai, Bethea, and McAfee were all pro bowlers. I would have sworn that Garcon was as well after moving on, but it turns out he wasn't. He did lead the league in receptions w/ 113 for 1,300 yards one year.

Some good post '04 picks were obviously Constanzo, both Kelvin Hayden and Marlin Jackson in '05 who were both really good CBs that had injuries derail their careers. The fact that Marlin Jackson made probably the biggest play in Indy Colts history makes him a good pick just for that IMO. Hell people always bash the Anthony Gonzalez pick, but he was actually pretty productive his first 2 seasons. Then he had the freak knee injury during the season opener in '09 that pretty much ended his career.

[Dam8610]

Doss was actually let go b/c of injuries and was more productive during his time w/ the Colts than either Willis or Blackmon. Bashir was a little less productive than Willis and Blackmon (at least per game) but still pretty comparable. He was let go b/c we had Doss and Sanders. Here's their stats w/ the Colts (apologies for the format).

GS Tackles Solo Sacks TFL INT FF
Bashir 51 234 165 0 3 5 3
Doss 42 268 205 1 11 7 6
Willis 33 219 161 3.5 7 4 1
Blackmon 46 214 163 1 12 7 2

And it's more than just Peyton vs. AR. Other than Peyton through 6 drafts Polian had drafted a HOF RB, HOF DE, a should be HOF WR, an all-pro DE (and maybe HOFer), and an all-pro TE.

Through 6 drafts Ballard has selected all-pros at OG, OLB, and RB. Q could maybe make the HOF but Leonard won't, and JT probably won't either.

Again, not knocking Ballard. The guy drafts well. But IMO he has a ways to go to be as good as Polian was (Bill, not Chris). It certainly isn't a known fact that Ballard's a better drafter like you claim it is.

Edit: you also need to admit that you forgot Jake Scott.

The statistics don't tell the whole story, I will always remember Mike Doss for the butt fumble level stupid play he made against the Bucs, who were defending world champions at the time, when he intercepted the ball, then inexplicably fumbled it, which Keenan McCardell picked up for a TD. The 2 things I remember Blackmon for are the game winning turnover he created in OT vs. Aaron Rodgers's Packers and how his absence in the last game of this past season likely cost the Colts the division. Bashir vs. Willis might be a wash statistically, but I recall Bashir being a bad starter on bad defenses and Willis being an average starter on average-good defenses. As for Isaiah Rodgers, I'd consider him comparable to a David Macklin type.

As far as all-pros, I think it's at least worth mentioning that Ballard used significant draft capital to acquire an all-pro DT, who had his all-pro season with the Colts. That would make the count 6 to 4, in about half the draft classes for Ballard. Incidentally, Wayne didn't make a Pro Bowl until his 6th season and didn't make all-pro until his 10th season, so look out for Pittman on that front.

I don't think you're knocking Ballard, I think it's a good debate, and good for us as fans that it's one that can be had.

Argh, how could anyone forget the great Jake Scott? I mean, other than both of us a couple of times.

[Racehorse]

Catching up on this one. Here's my .02 on several of the things being discussed:

Ballard - No question that Ballard is a MUCH better GM that Grigson, but damn near anybody would be b/c Grigson was completely incompetent.

I think we need to pump the breaks pretty hard on this Ballard is a better GM than Polian talk. When Ballard's teams start reaching Super Bowls (or have any playoff success at all) then I think we can maybe start having that conversation. As far as just drafting goes - I mostly agree w/ Chaos that you can have the conversation, but I do not agree that it's an absolute fact that Ballard is a better drafter. On top of just the amount of all-pros and HOFers that Polian drafted, you have to consider that most of his HRs were at premium positions. Whereas Ballard's haven't been. Something else that you have to consider is that during Polian's tenure the salary cap was more restrictive w/ no rookie salary limits in place, which made it much harder to keep your own and likely led to really good players like Mike Peterson, David Thornton, Steve McKinney being allowed to walk. Something else about Polian is that he tended to be more proactive is drafting replacements 1-2 years ahead of time (Diem and DeMulling in '01 are really good examples of this) while Ballard tends to wait until the vet leaves and tries to replace them w/ a rookie.

Overall though I do think Ballard is a good GM. He definitely drafts well. I do think his reluctance in FA and the fact that he gets scared shitless anytime another team is involved in pursuing a player is concerning. Let's say in a couple of years we're 1-2 players away and could fill that need(s) via FA. Based on his history I doubt Ballard will actually go for it and end up trying to fill the need(s) via the draft as always, which could lead to us missing our window.

Sneed - I'm pretty disappointed that he ended up at Tenn and not here, especially considering that they got him for peanuts w/ draft compensation. He did get signed to a big contract, but it wasn't outrageous. $19M AAV is tied for 7th most at CB and $55M guaranteed is 5th most at CB, which IMO isn't unreasonable considering his production and how much the cap went up this year.

Offseason so far - I would give us a C/C+ so far. It's great that we re-signed most of our own and added some depth at NT. But as of now arguably our weakest area (secondary) is actually weaker w/ the likelihood of losing Blackmon. We really need to replace him w/ a vet and IMO sign a vet at CB as well. Relying on mostly projects, 2nd year guys, and rookies in our secondary is a recipe for disaster IMO. We also need to add weapons in the passing game on O, but I suspect those will come in the draft.

Regarding Sneed, I heard two Nashville media personalities express concern about the fact the trade has not been officially completed, as Sneed has not yet inked the contract. Their concern is that the knees are a bigger issue than what was known, and that the Titans want a waiver as an out of the guaranteed money, and Sneed is not willing to sign it. if so, I am glad we passed on him.

[IndyNorm]

The statistics don't tell the whole story, I will always remember Mike Doss for the butt fumble level stupid play he made against the Bucs, who were defending world champions at the time, when he intercepted the ball, then inexplicably fumbled it, which Keenan McCardell picked up for a TD.


I remember that play as well, but one bad play doesn't a season or career make. Doss made plenty of good plays too w/ the Colts that made up for that and more. One that sticks out to me was against the Jagoffs early in the '06 season when Doss made a game ending int on what was a potential game tying drive from them. At any rate he had a really good rookie season (sans the Tamp pick/fumble) and was productive with the Colts until his ACL tear in '06, and the stats back that up.

The 2 things I remember Blackmon for are the game winning turnover he created in OT vs. Aaron Rodgers's Packers and how his absence in the last game of this past season likely cost the Colts the division.

Blackmon's a good player. No argument from me there. I saw that we've re-opened talks with him. Hopefully that leads to us re-signing him.

Bashir vs. Willis might be a wash statistically, but I recall Bashir being a bad starter on bad defenses and Willis being an average starter on average-good defenses. As for Isaiah Rodgers, I'd consider him comparable to a David Macklin type.

Bashir had his struggles his rookie year on a terrible D '01. Our D did get better in '02-'04, and Bashir was relatively productive. He was obviously nothing great, but IMO if you count Willis then you have to count Bashir.

As far as all-pros, I think it's at least worth mentioning that Ballard used significant draft capital to acquire an all-pro DT, who had his all-pro season with the Colts. That would make the count 6 to 4, in about half the draft classes for Ballard. Incidentally, Wayne didn't make a Pro Bowl until his 6th season and didn't make all-pro until his 10th season, so look out for Pittman on that front.

I don't think you're knocking Ballard, I think it's a good debate, and good for us as fans that it's one that can be had.

Fair point on Buckner and we'll see on MPJ. He's certainly capable. Like Chaos said it's pretty tough to compare a complete vs. incomplete resume. FWIW I don't think we'll see the drop off in draft quality w/ Ballard since he's younger than Polian was, and I don't see him trying to pass the reaigns anytime soon.

Argh, how could anyone forget the great Jake Scott? I mean, other than both of us a couple of times.

To be fair I only forgot to give you shit about missing him :D. Scott was a damn good draft pick. He was a 5th rounder started 9 games for us his rookie year then went on to be a 16 game starter for each of the next 7 seasons for us and the Tits. Guessing the injury bug finally caught up to him the next season b/c he only played in 7 games (all starts) and that was it. Still don't know why we chose to keep Lilja over him.

[ChaosTheory]

Blackmon's a good player. No argument from me there. I saw that we've re-opened talks with him. Hopefully that leads to us re-signing him.


Where's that from? Really like to see him back.

[IndyNorm]

Where's that from? Really like to see him back.

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/27/colts-free-agency-julian-blackmon-re-engaging-talks/

[YDFL Commish]

Wasn't Stokely a FA before joining the Colts?

[ChaosTheory]

Wasn't Stokely a FA before joining the Colts?

He was. Not much production in BAL. Of course, aside from exploding in '04, he kind of had 4th-option type numbers every other year.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Comments from Brett Kollmann:

https://x.com/BrettKollmann/status/1845855513176838586

I know that the Titans don’t get a lot of attention but we really should talk about how poorly the L’Jarius acquisition has gone for them so far.

He’s on pace to have 3 pass breakups all year.

He had 17 last season, and 26 over the last two seasons.


https://x.com/BrettKollmann/status/1845869581770076242

Guys this is not a case of “nobody targets him.”

He literally leads the Titans in targets.

His forced incompletion rate is 4%. That’s bad.

[Hoopsdoc]

Comments from Brett Kollmann:

https://x.com/BrettKollmann/status/1845855513176838586




https://x.com/BrettKollmann/status/1845869581770076242

Sneed got flat out abused yesterday. By all 3 of the Colts receivers. He gave up the touchdown to Pitt, the 34 yard PI to Pierce, and I lost count of how many times Downs roasted him.

Sneed had a terrible no good very bad day.

[YDFL Commish]

Sneed got flat out abused yesterday. By all 3 of the Colts receivers. He gave up the touchdown to Pitt, the 34 yard PI to Pierce, and I lost count of how many times Downs roasted him.

Sneed had a terrible no good very bad day.

I always thought that Trent McDuffie was the better CB anyway. Apparently the Chiefs thought so as well.

[Dam8610]

I always thought that Trent McDuffie was the better CB anyway. Apparently the Chiefs thought so as well.

McDuffie has been elite since coming into the NFL. Sneed may have benefited from having elite play around him and a good DC who knew how to mask his deficiencies.

[Chromeburn]

McDuffie has been elite since coming into the NFL. Sneed may have benefited from having elite play around him and a good DC who knew how to mask his deficiencies.

Glad we didn’t resign him. Teams always over value free agents. Unless it’s a job that translates to any defense/offense I’d pass.