OFFICIAL GAME THREAD: Win the Game, Make the Playoffs (vs. TEXANS, 1/06)

[IndyNorm]

Nope. Wasn't sold on Richardson before, injury didn't help. If Daniels was there with no trade up, I'd consider it.

The only way drafting Jayden Daniels makes any sense whatsoever is if either AR's rehab takes a horribly wrong turn or AR starts indicating that he's going to pull a Luck on us.

[omahacolt]

I absolutely agree with you on that. The problem with that is I'm not sold the Colts have the QB position solved, I am sold the Texans have the QB position solved, and as we saw for about 20 years, an elite QB outclasses a superior roster with a middling or inept QB every time.

you will always question richardson. because you are more worried about being right than you are about being honest or the colts winning.

its why people don't take you seriously

[Dewey 5]

Last night was an exception for me. Usually, when we lose close games with that much at stake, I rerun the mistakes in my head and can't sleep. Last night, I was upset with the last offensive play, but went to bed and was able to get to sleep quickly. This team vastly overachieved, given the circumstances. AR will return, and that will be an upgrade. Taylor should be ready to pair up with him immediately, instead of having no snaps together. Downs proved he was the right pick, and will only get better. AR will be able to get the ball to Pierce, making the run game open up even more. The young guys on the Oline should get better. The young secondary now has a season of experience, and should get another piece through the draft. Have to extend Pittman Monday. Have to get another WR and Edge rusher in the draft. Maybe sign Tee Higgins.

As Ed would always say, the future is bright, so :cool::cool::cool:
Ballard has to change his thinking about free agency.

[Dewey 5]

After riding Taylor down the field to take him out right there has got to be the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. It’s 4th and 1 not 4th and 5… not to mention you telegraph the play having Goodson in there, and let’s not forget Minshew hadn’t thrown a pass the entire fuckin drive. That should be an easy slam dunk… two biggest paid guys on the fuckin team Taylor runs right behind Nelson…. WTF are we doing

Overall I mean whatever this team over exceeded due to the weakest schedule in NFL history they played 3 maybe 4 actual NFL qbs this year so it would’ve ended with an embarrassing playoff loss most likely. It will not surprise me if the Texans and jags get totally blown out in round 1. AFC south is a joke

If they telegraphed it then the Texans didn't get receive the message because there wasn't a defender near Goodson.

[Hoopsdoc]

Possible silver lining is that Hou just barely beat us w/ our back QB, and they needed to make some great plays along w/ some really bad mistakes from us to do so. Makes me think that if AR had stayed healthy and continued to progress through the year that we very well could have beat them handily.

Hou will probably get better in the offseason as they have plenty of cap space and due to the Watson trade and another trade w/ Philly pretty much have their normal allotment of draft picks.

The Jaguars probably won't be able to add anything in FA and might have to release some guys. They don't have much cap space and have to pay Josh Allen along w/ some other players like Ridley. Also, they need to figure out what to do w/ Lawrence.

Ballard's going to have his work cut out for him this offseason. Not only do we have plenty of our own we need to re-sign (MPJ, Grover, Blackmon) and possibly extend (Defo, Franklin, Speed), but we need some serious improvement in the secondary at both CB and S, more pass rush, and more weapons for AR.
I think Grover and Pitt are the most important to keep.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Braden Smith is released. Been nothing but hurt and they seem to like Freeland.

[apballin]

If they telegraphed it then the Texans didn't get receive the message because there wasn't a defender near Goodson.

Goodson is a receiving back he’s not getting tough short yards, that’s part of the play design Pittman sets a pick on the defender responsible for covering Goodson, which he did. Play was there the throw was bad… didn’t throw a pass the entire drive. If it’s 4th and 5 or beyond I could’ve understood it but cmon it’s 1 yard and we have Nelson

[IndyNorm]

I think Grover and Pitt are the most important to keep.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Braden Smith is released. Been nothing but hurt and they seem to like Freeland.

Maybe on Smith. We'd have to eat $6M in cap space but would save ~$10.7M. Guessing it depends on if we need the cap room. Currently we have plenty at $71M, but let's see what it looks like after we hopefully re-sign/extend some of our own.

[Spike]

The last play for the Colts was the right call in my opinion. Taylor was hurt, and Steichen called a timeout to see what defense the Texans were in. They were in a run blitz and since Hughes left the game, the Colts were getting stuffed at or behind the line of scrimmage. If the play works, everyone would be praising Steichen.

It was not the play call, it was the shitty execution.

[IndyNorm]

Goodson is a receiving back he’s not getting tough short yards, that’s part of the play design Pittman sets a pick on the defender responsible for covering Goodson, which he did. Play was there the throw was bad… didn’t throw a pass the entire drive. If it’s 4th and 5 or beyond I could’ve understood it but cmon it’s 1 yard and we have Nelson

That's actually incorrect. Minshew completed 2 passes to Downs earlier in the drive, but that doesn't really change your point that the play call took the ball out of our RBs hands and into Minshew's despite the fact that we had been running the ball most of the drive. I actually wouldn't have minded seeing Moss get some carries inside the red zone at the end since he seemed to be fresher at that point in the game.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Don't feel too badly about l Nico Collins l burning us ...... the 3rd-round draft pick in the 2021 draft had what was by far his best season to date this year.



2021: ll, 33 ll Catches llllllll 446 llll, Yards llllllll 13.5 ll YPC llllllll 1 ll TD lllllllllll (14 GAMES)


2022: llt 37 ll Catches llllllll 481 llll, Yards llllllll 13.0 ll YPC llllllll 2 ll TD lllllllllll (10 GAMES)


2023: llll 80 ll Catches llllllll 1,297 ll Yards llllll) 16.2 ll YPC llllllll 8 ll TD lllllllllll (15 GAMES)

o

[DragonTails]

I don't even care about the rest of the games any more other than I am rooting for Jax and buf because I don't want shitty pittsburgh to make the playoffs.

I feel empty again after another Colts season.

[nate505]

One thing that irritated me was Steichen taking the timeout on 4th and 1. Just run a play. If it doesn't work, now you have three timeouts to stop the Texans and then to at least have a drive with 40 seconds left. Probably not going to get a TD anyway, but it at least gives the team another chance.

[Colts And Orioles]

One thing that irritated me was Steichen taking the timeout on 4th and 1. Just run a play. If it doesn't work, now you have three timeouts to stop the Texans and then to at least have a drive with 40 seconds left. Probably not going to get a TD anyway, but it at least gives the team another chance.





o


That's what I said, at the time that it was happening.

o

o


Now, we only have 2 time-outs left if we don't make it.

o


o


Game over ...... I wanted to save that time-out, and go with a play.

o

[Spike]

One thing that irritated me was Steichen taking the timeout on 4th and 1. Just run a play. If it doesn't work, now you have three timeouts to stop the Texans and then to at least have a drive with 40 seconds left. Probably not going to get a TD anyway, but it at least gives the team another chance.

Steichen said he called the timeout to see what defense the Texans were in. He found out and called the right play. That timeout he used was to win the game right then and there. I don't have a problem with it at all. Steichen is a hell of a good coach, glad we have him.

[Kray007]

OK, I slept and...I am still mad. When the game was on the line and you HAD to have ONE yard, they got cute with the pay call. Your best offensive weapon, a RB, was not on the field on a day when the pass game was ridiculously bad and a RB who NOT been on the field for a single play was in the game, not even RB2, but RB3/4! I am sure the thinking was the other team would not expect the ball to go to RB3. Keeping the ball on the ground and out of the QBs hands was CLEARLY working. So on the most important play of the game, they left it to a QB with maybe 100 yards passing. I get it, it was a short pass, but COME ON! They got cute and outsmarted themselves. That is all.

Look, as far as I’m concerned, it was a great call. Houston was playing one of those 5 man fronts that have bedeviled the Colts run game all season. They double-teamed Pittman, leaving Goodson alone in the flat with clear sailing to the five. Heck, with a well placed pass, he might even evade a tackle and score.

When Steichen drew up the play, he couldn’t have anticipated that Minshew would screw up or that Goodson would drop it. As Greg Doyle said, the throw was the equivalent of a layup in basketball. Any journeyman Quarterback should complete it in his sleep.

[Kray007]

One thing that irritated me was Steichen taking the timeout on 4th and 1. Just run a play. If it doesn't work, now you have three timeouts to stop the Texans and then to at least have a drive with 40 seconds left. Probably not going to get a TD anyway, but it at least gives the team another chance.

With the season resting on one play, I don’t have a problem with Steichen calling a timeout in order to dial up the perfect play. And, the call was pretty darned close to perfect…Goodson’s uncovered in the flat for a first down and then some. It doesn’t get any better than that.

[Kray007]

I think Grover and Pitt are the most important to keep.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Braden Smith is released. Been nothing but hurt and they seem to like Freeland.

The only reason they like Freeland is because there’s no one else on the roster to turn to.

[rm1369]

I was at the game so didn’t hear JT was hurt. I’ll take back some or my criticism of him on his last two runs. And if he was hurt to the degree he needed to avoid contact and run out of bounds, he shouldn’t have been in there. He obviously kept them in the game, but man those were not the runs you want in that situation with that much on the line.

[rm1369]

With the season resting on one play, I don’t have a problem with Steichen calling a timeout in order to dial up the perfect play. And, the call was pretty darned close to perfect…Goodson’s uncovered in the flat for a first down and then some. It doesn’t get any better than that.

Agreed. The team had passed the point that they could expect another possession. That was the one. They had the perfect play call and they didn’t execute.

[Racehorse]

o


Don't feel too badly about l Nico Collins l burning us ...... the 3rd-round draft pick in the 2021 draft had what was by far his best season to date this year.



2021: ll, 33 ll Catches llllllll 446 llll, Yards llllllll 13.5 ll YPC llllllll 1 ll TD lllllllllll (14 GAMES)


2022: llt 37 ll Catches llllllll 481 llll, Yards llllllll 13.0 ll YPC llllllll 2 ll TD lllllllllll (10 GAMES)


2023: llll 80 ll Catches llllllll 1,297 ll Yards llllll) 16.2 ll YPC llllllll 8 ll TD lllllllllll (15 GAMES)

o

That one catch late was ridiculous. I thought Stroud was just avoiding a sack, and we would get the ball back. Collins comes from nowhere, and makes that catch. We likely win if not for that.

[kitekrazy]

We
can't
have
nice
things

[DragonTails]

Jax loss makes this loss feel even worse.

Could have hosted a playoff game.

[omahacolt]

I think Grover and Pitt are the most important to keep.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Braden Smith is released. Been nothing but hurt and they seem to like Freeland.

i would be irate if they just cut smith.

[ChaosTheory]

i would be irate if they just cut smith.

I can't see them releasing him. He's better than Freeland, it's just a calculation of how much better and is that worth the huge difference in pay.

They'll see how Freeland looks after an NFL off-season (Raimann got huge) and decide if Smith is worth shopping around. I'd still be surprised if it was this coming off-season. Next off-season, though, seems a little more realistic.

[Dewey 5]

I'm not sold that we will ever win the division with Ballard manning the wheel.

[Dam8610]

After a good night's sleep, I still hate the way that game ended! But now the thing troubling me the most is I see the Colts as the third best team in the AFC South next season too! You know Houston is going to get a stud RB and add another quality WR next season. Jaguars are already a very good team and will only be better next year. So even if we improve and AR stays healthy, we could be a better team and still finish third again!

Don't worry about the Jaguars, they're going to fade away with their QB that still can't read a defense 3 years in. I'm worried about Houston, but I do think the Colts still have the better roster, so if the QB position is even close, the Colts will be the better team.

Last night was an exception for me. Usually, when we lose close games with that much at stake, I rerun the mistakes in my head and can't sleep. Last night, I was upset with the last offensive play, but went to bed and was able to get to sleep quickly. This team vastly overachieved, given the circumstances. AR will return, and that will be an upgrade. Taylor should be ready to pair up with him immediately, instead of having no snaps together. Downs proved he was the right pick, and will only get better. AR will be able to get the ball to Pierce, making the run game open up even more. The young guys on the Oline should get better. The young secondary now has a season of experience, and should get another piece through the draft. Have to extend Pittman Monday. Have to get another WR and Edge rusher in the draft. Maybe sign Tee Higgins.

As Ed would always say, the future is bright, so :cool::cool::cool:

I sure hope you're right. Hopefully a quality edge rusher is available at whatever mid first round pick the Colts have and they take him. I could also see Ballard prioritizing DB, even after last year's draft of DBs. First thing first, though, really hoping they re-sign Pittman and Blackmon.

OK, I slept and...I am still mad. When the game was on the line and you HAD to have ONE yard, they got cute with the pay call. Your best offensive weapon, a RB, was not on the field on a day when the pass game was ridiculously bad and a RB who NOT been on the field for a single play was in the game, not even RB2, but RB3/4! I am sure the thinking was the other team would not expect the ball to go to RB3. Keeping the ball on the ground and out of the QBs hands was CLEARLY working. So on the most important play of the game, they left it to a QB with maybe 100 yards passing. I get it, it was a short pass, but COME ON! They got cute and outsmarted themselves. That is all.

That is a disturbing tendency Steichen had at the end of the season, taking Taylor out for crucial plays, especially fourth down plays. Hopefully it was just a "Taylor hasn't practiced much" thing and won't be a trend going forward.

Possible silver lining is that Hou just barely beat us w/ our back QB, and they needed to make some great plays along w/ some really bad mistakes from us to do so. Makes me think that if AR had stayed healthy and continued to progress through the year that we very well could have beat them handily.

Hou will probably get better in the offseason as they have plenty of cap space and due to the Watson trade and another trade w/ Philly pretty much have their normal allotment of draft picks.

The Jaguars probably won't be able to add anything in FA and might have to release some guys. They don't have much cap space and have to pay Josh Allen along w/ some other players like Ridley. Also, they need to figure out what to do w/ Lawrence.

Ballard's going to have his work cut out for him this offseason. Not only do we have plenty of our own we need to re-sign (MPJ, Grover, Blackmon) and possibly extend (Defo, Franklin, Speed), but we need some serious improvement in the secondary at both CB and S, more pass rush, and more weapons for AR.

I don't think the roster is nearly as bad as you make it out to be. I think a lot of the improvement in the secondary can come internally from better health and more experience, but also would not be surprised to see Ballard draft a CB in the first round if the value isn't there at pass rusher. Also wouldn't be surprised to see a WR there, only because there are some very talented WRs beyond Marvin's son in this draft. I'd love to see Malik Nabers as a Colt, for example. Whoever the Colts add in Round 1 this year, I'm hoping for an elite talent at a premium position (WR, CB, DE), because I'm also hoping this is the last time for a long time that the Colts pick above 20.

The only way drafting Jayden Daniels makes any sense whatsoever is if either AR's rehab takes a horribly wrong turn or AR starts indicating that he's going to pull a Luck on us.

Or if you think Daniels is better. But it appears he's already in the Top 5 conversation, so the point is probably moot.

you will always question richardson. because you are more worried about being right than you are about being honest or the colts winning.

its why people don't take you seriously

Absolutely not. If Richardson comes out next year, stays healthy, and leads the Colts to a high seeded playoff berth, I'll wholeheartedly believe in him. The problem I have is there was a franchise QB available and the Colts didn't move heaven and earth to get him, like they said they would. I am right about Stroud (my comp was Rodgers, he led the league in TD:INT ratio as a rookie), and while I'll probably be annoyed about that until he's out of the league, there's no need to harp on it. Hopefully Houston will botch it with him like they did with their last franchise QB.

Ballard has to change his thinking about free agency.

Don't know that I agree with that. Maybe slightly. If the elite edge rushers make it to free agency, I hope Ballard will move away from his traditional free agency stinginess.

[Brylok]

I'm not sold that we will ever win the division with Ballard manning the wheel.

There has to be something to this. He's going into year eight and we haven't even won the division. Houston was a dumpster last couple of years and they win the division? Just like that? There has to be an answer somewhere.

[Dam8610]

There has to be something to this. He's going into year eight and we haven't even won the division. Houston was a dumpster last couple of years and they win the division? Just like that? There has to be an answer somewhere.

That's what a franchise QB does.

[Hoopsdoc]

Don't worry about the Jaguars, they're going to fade away with their QB that still can't read a defense 3 years in. I'm worried about Houston, but I do think the Colts still have the better roster, so if the QB position is even close, the Colts will be the better team.



I sure hope you're right. Hopefully a quality edge rusher is available at whatever mid first round pick the Colts have and they take him. I could also see Ballard prioritizing DB, even after last year's draft of DBs. First thing first, though, really hoping they re-sign Pittman and Blackmon.



That is a disturbing tendency Steichen had at the end of the season, taking Taylor out for crucial plays, especially fourth down plays. Hopefully it was just a "Taylor hasn't practiced much" thing and won't be a trend going forward.



I don't think the roster is nearly as bad as you make it out to be. I think a lot of the improvement in the secondary can come internally from better health and more experience, but also would not be surprised to see Ballard draft a CB in the first round if the value isn't there at pass rusher. Also wouldn't be surprised to see a WR there, only because there are some very talented WRs beyond Marvin's son in this draft. I'd love to see Malik Nabers as a Colt, for example. Whoever the Colts add in Round 1 this year, I'm hoping for an elite talent at a premium position (WR, CB, DE), because I'm also hoping this is the last time for a long time that the Colts pick above 20.



Or if you think Daniels is better. But it appears he's already in the Top 5 conversation, so the point is probably moot.



Absolutely not. If Richardson comes out next year, stays healthy, and leads the Colts to a high seeded playoff berth, I'll wholeheartedly believe in him. The problem I have is there was a franchise QB available and the Colts didn't move heaven and earth to get him, like they said they would. I am right about Stroud (my comp was Rodgers, he led the league in TD:INT ratio as a rookie), and while I'll probably be annoyed about that until he's out of the league, there's no need to harp on it. Hopefully Houston will botch it with him like they did with their last franchise QB.



Don't know that I agree with that. Maybe slightly. If the elite edge rushers make it to free agency, I hope Ballard will move away from his traditional free agency stinginess.

Again, and I’ve pointed this out to you MULTIPLE times, there was NO WAY the Colts were going to be able to get into position to draft Stroud.

The Bears weren’t interested in Pittman, so they traded with Chicago.

There was no way in hell the Texans were ever gonna trade with the Colts.

So Stroud was NEVER going to be a Colt.

You should stop implying that the Colts had the option to get him.

They didn’t.

[Racehorse]

I am right about Stroud (my comp was Rodgers, he led the league in TD:INT ratio as a rookie), and while I'll probably be annoyed about that until he's out of the league, there's no need to harp on it.



The problem is that you DO harp on it. Just drop it, and people will stop giving you shit for harping on it.

[IndyNorm]

Again, and I’ve pointed this out to you MULTIPLE times, there was NO WAY the Colts were going to be able to get into position to draft Stroud.

The Bears weren’t interested in Pittman, so they traded with Chicago.

There was no way in hell the Texans were ever gonna trade with the Colts.

So Stroud was NEVER going to be a Colt.

You should stop implying that the Colts had the option to get him.

They didn’t.

Dam knows this. In fact he's told us god knows how many times that the Bears wanted Leonard and JT along w/ the #4 pick for the #1 pick. I think there was another injured, high priced Colts player that the Bears wanted as well, but I can't think of who that was.

[Dam8610]

Again, and I’ve pointed this out to you MULTIPLE times, there was NO WAY the Colts were going to be able to get into position to draft Stroud.

The Bears weren’t interested in Pittman, so they traded with Chicago.

There was no way in hell the Texans were ever gonna trade with the Colts.

So Stroud was NEVER going to be a Colt.

You should stop implying that the Colts had the option to get him.

They didn’t.

What I heard is the Colts didn't want to trade Pittman which is why they didn't end up moving up. Either way, the Colts could have put a better offer together than the Panthers did if they wanted to get to 1.

The problem is that you DO harp on it. Just drop it, and people will stop giving you shit for harping on it.

It's an incredibly frustrating situation. It's easy to say what should be done with hindsight, I said what needed to be done with foresight. Hopefully Richardson comes out next year and lights the world on fire. That would make me forget about it.

[Dam8610]

Dam knows this. In fact he's told us god knows how many times that the Bears wanted Leonard and JT along w/ the #4 pick for the #1 pick. I think there was another injured, high priced Colts player that the Bears wanted as well, but I can't think of who that was.

Ha, that was my hypothetical conjured up scenario, it wasn't any rumor of anything that was discussed. I just hypothesized that Eberflus would be interested in those players, and it would've allowed the Colts to make some shrewder investments going forward. I wanted to trade up to 1 without giving up the 2024 1st rounder. Giving up two former All-Pros might have made it possible.

[Hoopsdoc]

What I heard is the Colts didn't want to trade Pittman which is why they didn't end up moving up. Either way, the Colts could have put a better offer together than the Panthers did if they wanted to get to 1.



It's an incredibly frustrating situation. It's easy to say what should be done with hindsight, I said what needed to be done with foresight. Hopefully Richardson comes out next year and lights the world on fire. That would make me forget about it.

What I heard is that the Bears wanted a number 1 receiver to pair with Fields and they preferred Moore because they felt he was a better player than Pittman and he was also signed long term.

If that is true, then the Colts had no shot at trading to 1.

[Racehorse]

What I heard is the Colts didn't want to trade Pittman which is why they didn't end up moving up. Either way, the Colts could have put a better offer together than the Panthers did if they wanted to get to 1.



It's an incredibly frustrating situation. It's easy to say what should be done with hindsight, I said what needed to be done with foresight. Hopefully Richardson comes out next year and lights the world on fire. That would make me forget about it.

There you go harping again

[Chromeburn]

We have Carolina’s owner Bidwell to thank for Stroud ending up in the division. If he had listened to Reich he would be in Carolina. I wonder who the Texans would have drafted if Stroud was off the board though.

[njcoltfan]

We have Carolina’s owner Bidwell to thank for Stroud ending up in the division. If he had listened to Reich he would be in Carolina. I wonder who the Texans would have drafted if Stroud was off the board though.

I think you mean Tepper not Bidwell.

[Dam8610]

What I heard is that the Bears wanted a number 1 receiver to pair with Fields and they preferred Moore because they felt he was a better player than Pittman and he was also signed long term.

If that is true, then the Colts had no shot at trading to 1.

The #4 pick was more valuable than #9 in part because it could've been flipped again to another QB needy team to get into that same range. In this hypothetical scenario, after trading with the Colts to move to 4, if the Bears liked DJ Moore so much, they could've flipped from 4 to 9 and got him. You can say it was impossible, if they wanted it badly enough, they'd have found a way to make it happen.

There you go harping again

That's not "harping", that's frustration. Ballard talked the talk then did not walk the walk. Could've won the division for the first time since 2014, instead the Colts have an injured QB and a lot of "what if"s.

[Dam8610]

We have Carolina’s owner Bidwell to thank for Stroud ending up in the division. If he had listened to Reich he would be in Carolina. I wonder who the Texans would have drafted if Stroud was off the board though.

Probably Young, which would've been incredible for the Colts.

[kitekrazy]

That's what a franchise QB does.

I think they will be rare in the modern NFL.

[kitekrazy]

There has to be something to this. He's going into year eight and we haven't even won the division. Houston was a dumpster last couple of years and they win the division? Just like that? There has to be an answer somewhere.

Have they been really bad at the right time to get a great pick? Maybe the scouting is not good enough when the team has to pick somewhere in the middle.

[IndyNorm]

The #4 pick was more valuable than #9 in part because it could've been flipped again to another QB needy team to get into that same range. In this hypothetical scenario, after trading with the Colts to move to 4, if the Bears liked DJ Moore so much, they could've flipped from 4 to 9 and got him. You can say it was impossible, if they wanted it badly enough, they'd have found a way to make it happen.

That's not "harping", that's frustration. Ballard talked the talk then did not walk the walk. Could've won the division for the first time since 2014, instead the Colts have an injured QB and a lot of "what if"s.

You're assuming that Ballard had Stroud rated higher than AR. Considering how Ballard tends to value traits over polish and production in his draft picks it's not unlikely that he had AR rated higher than Stroud. At the very least he obviously had AR rated close enough to Stroud to where he didn't think it was worth spending the capital to trade up to #1.

Absolutely not. If Richardson comes out next year, stays healthy, and leads the Colts to a high seeded playoff berth, I'll wholeheartedly believe in him. The problem I have is there was a franchise QB available and the Colts didn't move heaven and earth to get him, like they said they would. I am right about Stroud (my comp was Rodgers, he led the league in TD:INT ratio as a rookie), and while I'll probably be annoyed about that until he's out of the league, there's no need to harp on it. Hopefully Houston will botch it with him like they did with their last franchise QB.

We all know this is BS. If Stroud ends up having the better career of the 2 then you'll continue to remind us about it every step of the way. If AR manages to live up to his potential and ends up being better than Stroud then you'll come up w/ some BS as to why that happened, similar to what you do when anyone on here brings up how bad Mac Jones and Zach Wilson are.

Probably Young, which would've been incredible for the Colts

I distinctly remember you being high on Young. Not as high as you were on Stroud obviously, but still high on him. Are you admitting that you were wrong?

[Dam8610]

You're assuming that Ballard had Stroud rated higher than AR. Considering how Ballard tends to value traits over polish and production in his draft picks it's not unlikely that he had AR rated higher than Stroud. At the very least he obviously had AR rated close enough to Stroud to where he didn't think it was worth spending the capital to trade up to #1.

You have pinpointed what I am frustrated about. Based on results, Stroud should've been rated head and shoulders above the rest of the class, as I had it. He led the league in TD:INT ratio AS A ROOKIE and game in and game out displayed the Aaron Rodgers like qualities (including leading the league in TD:INT ratio) that he displayed at Ohio State all year, not just in the Georgia game. His rookie year is proof that that assessment was wrong.

We all know this is BS. If Stroud ends up having the better career of the 2 then you'll continue to remind us about it every step of the way. If AR manages to live up to his potential and ends up being better than Stroud then you'll come up w/ some BS as to why that happened, similar to what you do when anyone on here brings up how bad Mac Jones and Zach Wilson are.

I'm a Colts fan, the Colts winning is ultimately what I want. Stroud is clearly going to be a franchise QB barring injury. If Richardson lives up to his potential and is also a franchise QB, it'll completely remove the sting of missing a different franchise QB.

As for the 2021 QB class, it looks like they were all bad. At least I can point at team based factors that ruined the development of Jones and Wilson. It's not like they're Trevor Lawrence who still can't read a defense.

I distinctly remember you being high on Young. Not as high as you were on Stroud obviously, but still high on him. Are you admitting that you were wrong?

If Young had 4 more inches of height, I'd've ultimately ranked Stroud higher. Why? Because they were very close in terms of performance, but there was one differentiating trait that made Stroud better in my eyes. Both QBs often rolled out of the pocket and improvised. When Young did it, he looked to run more often and didn't always keep his eyes downfield. Stroud ALWAYS kept his eyes downfield and often made opposing defenses pay for not maintaining zone discipline when he rolled out. That's why my high end comp for Stroud was Rodgers and my high end comp for Young was prime Russell Wilson. I'd choose Rodgers over Wilson.

That said, Young absolutely had a terrible rookie season on the worst roster in the league. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Both he and Richardson have a chance to completely change the narrative next year. I wouldn't count either of them out at this point.

[IndyNorm]

You have pinpointed what I am frustrated about. Based on results, Stroud should've been rated head and shoulders above the rest of the class, as I had it. He led the league in TD:INT ratio AS A ROOKIE and game in and game out displayed the Aaron Rodgers like qualities (including leading the league in TD:INT ratio) that he displayed at Ohio State all year, not just in the Georgia game. His rookie year is proof that that assessment was wrong.

I'm a Colts fan, the Colts winning is ultimately what I want. Stroud is clearly going to be a franchise QB barring injury. If Richardson lives up to his potential and is also a franchise QB, it'll completely remove the sting of missing a different franchise QB.

There you go with your hindsight harping again.

As for the 2021 QB class, it looks like they were all bad. At least I can point at team based factors that ruined the development of Jones and Wilson. It's not like they're Trevor Lawrence who still can't read a defense.

See, you still can't admit that you were wrong about Wilson and Jones (neither of which can read a defense to save their lives either). Just admit that you were wrong. It'll be healthy for you, and people on the board will respect you more.

Also, who said anything about Lawrence? I don't know if it's b/c he banged your mom or something, but the dude has been living rent free in your head for the past 3 years now. Whatever it is that's causing this you should let it go.


If Young had 4 more inches of height, I'd've ultimately ranked Stroud higher. Why? Because they were very close in terms of performance, but there was one differentiating trait that made Stroud better in my eyes. Both QBs often rolled out of the pocket and improvised. When Young did it, he looked to run more often and didn't always keep his eyes downfield. Stroud ALWAYS kept his eyes downfield and often made opposing defenses pay for not maintaining zone discipline when he rolled out. That's why my high end comp for Stroud was Rodgers and my high end comp for Young was prime Russell Wilson. I'd choose Rodgers over Wilson.


I wasn't trying to compare Stroud and Young. Stroud is clearly better, and few (if any) of us thought differently going into the draft. What I was trying to convey is that you were high on Young, and at least as of now he looks like an epic bust.

That said, Young absolutely had a terrible rookie season on the worst roster in the league. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Both he and Richardson have a chance to completely change the narrative next year. I wouldn't count either of them out at this point.

Agree that you can't give up on Young even though he was god awful this year, but clearly the signs are there that he's a possibly bust.

Not sure the narrative needs to be flipped on AR. Dude got hurt. It happens in the NFL. But what we saw when he played was VERY promising. Although you seem to want the Colts to give up on him since you've been bringing up that we should draft Jayden Daniels.

[albany ed]

I'm not sure how Minshew missed him so badly!

That right there? Why I wanted Stroud.

Yeah, you say that now.

[Dam8610]

There you go with your hindsight harping again.

I'll take that as a concession that there's no argument to be had there.

See, you still can't admit that you were wrong about Wilson and Jones (neither of which can read a defense to save their lives either). Just admit that you were wrong. It'll be healthy for you, and people on the board will respect you more.

The entire 2021 QB class appears to be a bust. Given that Mac Jones was a Ja'Marr Chase 3 TD performance against the Chiefs away from the OROY, I think his failure probably had more to do with his team screwing up his development than the guy who couldn't read defenses coming in and still can't. As for Wilson, I said at the time he needed a redshirt year and that starting him immediately risked ruining his development, but the Jets are gonna Jets.

Also, who said anything about Lawrence? I don't know if it's b/c he banged your mom or something, but the dude has been living rent free in your head for the past 3 years now. Whatever it is that's causing this you should let it go.

I imagine that most draft experts and the football watching population in general are feeling toward Lawrence the way Obi-Wan felt toward Anakin on Mustafar. "You were the Chosen One!" That was certainly the way he was talked about in the leadup to the draft. He wasn't then and still isn't.

I wasn't trying to compare Stroud and Young. Stroud is clearly better, and few (if any) of us thought differently going into the draft. What I was trying to convey is that you were high on Young, and at least as of now he looks like an epic bust.

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.

Agree that you can't give up on Young even though he was god awful this year, but clearly the signs are there that he's a possibly bust.

Sure, I said at the time that his height was a significant risk factor that he could potentially fail in the NFL. The risk factors of a player aren't listed for fun, it's typically a "if he fails, here's why" list. Because it's not an exact science, and even the best GMs get it wrong 50% of the time.

Not sure the narrative needs to be flipped on AR. Dude got hurt. It happens in the NFL. But what we saw when he played was VERY promising. Although you seem to want the Colts to give up on him since you've been bringing up that we should draft Jayden Daniels.

The narrative on AR currently is he shows a lot of promise, but can't stay healthy enough to even finish a game, and had his season ended after 5 of 17. Hopefully he can change that to "he fulfilled the promise he showed and finished all 17 games" next season. I don't necessarily want the Colts to give up on Richardson, but I wouldn't pass on Joe Burrow just because I already had Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not saying Daniels is Burrow or Richardson is Bridgewater, I just wouldn't pass on drafting a franchise QB if one was presented to me unless I already knew I had a franchise QB.

[Racehorse]

Yeah, you say that now.

Not just now. The dude won't let it rest.

[Racehorse]

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.



One of the main reasons Stroud was rated lower was his cognitive score was rumored to be equal to a small rock. We now Know that he actually can process better than they predicted.

[Dam8610]

One of the main reasons Stroud was rated lower was his cognitive score was rumored to be equal to a small rock. We now Know that he actually can process better than they predicted.

I also said at the time that that result didn't match up with the film. If you watched the film, you knew he could process well.

[omahacolt]

I also said at the time that that result didn't match up with the film. If you watched the film, you knew he could process well.

me me me

I I I


do you even know how much of a cunt you sound like all the time.

[IndyNorm]

I'll take that as a concession that there's no argument to be had there.

You were just harping, so I didn't feel like it needed much of a response. But since you insist: it's stupid to say that Ballard was wrong on his evaluation after 1 season. With a raw talent like AR you need to give him 2-3 years to develop before making an accurate comparison. Also, when the proper time comes you just can't compare Stroud vs. AR. You need to compare Stroud vs. AR, Brents, Ade, at least our 2nd round pick from '24 (if not our first), and possibly someone like ~MPJ.

The entire 2021 QB class appears to be a bust. Given that Mac Jones was a Ja'Marr Chase 3 TD performance against the Chiefs away from the OROY, I think his failure probably had more to do with his team screwing up his development than the guy who couldn't read defenses coming in and still can't. As for Wilson, I said at the time he needed a redshirt year and that starting him immediately risked ruining his development, but the Jets are gonna Jets.


LOL seriously? If the Jets had listened to you then Wilson would have turned out ok? Do you really not know how ridiculous these type of comments are?

As for Mac Jones - granted I didn't watch the Cheats much this year, but he sure as shit didn't know how to read a defense when they played us. Also, it wasn't just Chase's late year push that factored into Jones not winning OROY. Jones sucked down the stretch his rookie year, which very much foreshadowed things to come.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt (as well stated by omaha) and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard. Let me give you an example: I at one point agreed with you that the Colts should have traded up to draft Mac Jones instead of drafting Paye. I was clearly wrong about that.


I imagine that most draft experts and the football watching population in general are feeling toward Lawrence the way Obi-Wan felt toward Anakin on Mustafar. "You were the Chosen One!" That was certainly the way he was talked about in the leadup to the draft. He wasn't then and still isn't.

Those draft "experts" get paid to make statements like that. You don't. As far as general fans go I don't think anyone outside of Jagoffs and Clemson fans are too upset that Lawrence regressed this year and might not pan out.

Like I said before: you need to quit letting him live inside your head rent free.

You need to go back and read, then. I was the only one on this board that had Stroud above Young, and most draft experts had Young ahead as well. The biggest criticism of Stroud was that he couldn't improvise (lol) and that was what put Young ahead of him for most people. Lots of people had Young and Stroud on the same tier, with Young ahead of Stroud. I eventually had each of the top 3 QBs in their own tier, with Stroud being the highest, and Levis in the "not a starter" tier with several other QBs.


This is total BS. There are plenty of us on here (myself included) who stated that we didn't want the Colts to draft Young b/c of his size.


Sure, I said at the time that his height was a significant risk factor that he could potentially fail in the NFL. The risk factors of a player aren't listed for fun, it's typically a "if he fails, here's why" list. Because it's not an exact science, and even the best GMs get it wrong 50% of the time.

You may have stated his size was a risk factor, but you were still high on him.


The narrative on AR currently is he shows a lot of promise, but can't stay healthy enough to even finish a game, and had his season ended after 5 of 17. Hopefully he can change that to "he fulfilled the promise he showed and finished all 17 games" next season. I don't necessarily want the Colts to give up on Richardson, but I wouldn't pass on Joe Burrow just because I already had Teddy Bridgewater. I'm not saying Daniels is Burrow or Richardson is Bridgewater, I just wouldn't pass on drafting a franchise QB if one was presented to me unless I already knew I had a franchise QB.

That's your narrative. Most of us on here are pretty optimistic now with AR's shoulder being repaired and hopefully some focus on him avoiding big hits where possible that he'll stay healthy.

Also, if the Colts do indeed draft another QB in the 1st round this year it means they have given up on AR. It's not that hard to figure out. We all know that they won't do this though, so there's really no point in speculating on it.

[IndyNorm]

me me me

I I I


do you even know how much of a cunt you sound like all the time.

I really wish we could hit the thanks button multiple times, b/c this post definitely deserves multiple thanks.

[Racehorse]

I really wish we could hit the thanks button multiple times, b/c this post definitely deserves multiple thanks.

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

[Spike]

Dam, there was a poll done on this board, and only 1 individual voted for Bryce Young, Only 1.

Most votes were for Stroud or AR. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

[Colts And Orioles]

Dam, there was a poll done on this board, and only 1 individual voted for Bryce Young ...... only 1.

Most votes were for Stroud or Richardson ...... but hey, don't let facts get in your way.





o


Anthony Richardson llll),, - 10 ltt Votes

C.J. Stroud llllllllllllllllllllllllll - 3 lllll Votes

Will Levis llllllllllllllllllllllllllllt - 3 lllll Votes

Bryce Young llllllllllllllllllllllll - 1 lllll Votes

Trade Back lllllllllllllllllllllllllt - 1 llllt Votes

Hendon Hooker lllllllllllllllllt - 0 llll, Votes



http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161298

o

[IndyNorm]

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

No doubt. When he steps away from obsessing over his latest man crush he makes some good points and is pretty insightful.

[Dam8610]

me me me

I I I


do you even know how much of a cunt you sound like all the time.

There's only one perspective any of us have. Can't say what your perspective or anyone else's is. Mine is that a franchise QB was there for the taking and Ballard did not move heaven and earth to get him as he promised.

You were just harping, so I didn't feel like it needed much of a response. But since you insist: it's stupid to say that Ballard was wrong on his evaluation after 1 season. With a raw talent like AR you need to give him 2-3 years to develop before making an accurate comparison. Also, when the proper time comes you just can't compare Stroud vs. AR. You need to compare Stroud vs. AR, Brents, Ade, at least our 2nd round pick from '24 (if not our first), and possibly someone like ~MPJ.

How do you think Chiefs fans feel about not having a 2018 1st round draft pick? Do you think they care?

Barring injury, C.J. Stroud is well on his way to being a franchise QB, and he's not a Colt. I think we can agree on those things at the very least. You don't have to be frustrated about that, but I am. I'd rather have the sure thing than the chance.

LOL seriously? If the Jets had listened to you then Wilson would have turned out ok? Do you really not know how ridiculous these type of comments are?

Each player is different and it's not really possible to know what development path will work best for each one. That said, clearly throwing him into the fire didn't work out for the Jets and Zach Wilson. Does that mean a redshirt year would've turned Zach Wilson into a world beater franchise QB? Not necessarily, but Patrick Mahomes credits his redshirt year with allowing him to be the QB he is today. I do wonder what would've happened with Wilson had he been given that redshirt year, but we'll never really know now.

As for Mac Jones - granted I didn't watch the Cheats much this year, but he sure as shit didn't know how to read a defense when they played us. Also, it wasn't just Chase's late year push that factored into Jones not winning OROY. Jones sucked down the stretch his rookie year, which very much foreshadowed things to come.

Mac Jones had 3 OCs in 3 years, one of which made his name in the NFL as a DC. Everything that Belicheat did to aid Tom Brady's development, he did AT LEAST that much to destroy Mac Jones's development. Jones would've been better off in literally any other situation, and might be a better version of Brock Purdy had the 49ers actually drafted him.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt (as well stated by omaha) and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard. Let me give you an example: I at one point agreed with you that the Colts should have traded up to draft Mac Jones instead of drafting Paye. I was clearly wrong about that.

Everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class, I said that already. The previous two paragraphs I feel are far more interesting discussion than the above sentence.

Those draft "experts" get paid to make statements like that. You don't. As far as general fans go I don't think anyone outside of Jagoffs and Clemson fans are too upset that Lawrence regressed this year and might not pan out.

Like I said before: you need to quit letting him live inside your head rent free.

He doesn't, but as several people here said at the time, it was a pretty bold call to call Lawrence a bust at the time he was being anointed as the future of the NFL. I think getting things like that right when going against all conventional wisdom lends credibility to my evaluations going forward.

This is total BS. There are plenty of us on here (myself included) who stated that we didn't want the Colts to draft Young b/c of his size.

That particular part was about rankings. Most had Young ahead of Stroud in rankings.

You may have stated his size was a risk factor, but you were still high on him.

I still think his poise, accuracy, and ability to improvise give him a chance to succeed and his size gives him a chance to fail. He appears to be hampered by a less than ideal organizational situation as well.

That's your narrative. Most of us on here are pretty optimistic now with AR's shoulder being repaired and hopefully some focus on him avoiding big hits where possible that he'll stay healthy.

Yes, it's a chance. A damn near guarantee was passed up for a chance.

Also, if the Colts do indeed draft another QB in the 1st round this year it means they have given up on AR. It's not that hard to figure out. We all know that they won't do this though, so there's really no point in speculating on it.

Daniels likely won't be there at 15, so the point is probably moot, like I already said and it seems you agree. I also haven't watched enough film of him yet to have a real opinion on Daniels, I just very much like what I've seen so far.

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

I appreciate the compliment portion, but I'm not going to "admit" I'm wrong if I don't feel I am (Yes, lots of "I" there, don't know another way to express the point). You know what I will say I was wrong about? Taylor's fumble problem negating most of his value. I still hate fumbles from RBs, but Taylor has reduced his fumbling quite a bit in the NFL and he produces far too much positive value for it to be negated by his fumbles, especially considering how much less he's done it in the NFL.

Dam, there was a poll done on this board, and only 1 individual voted for Bryce Young, Only 1.

Most votes were for Stroud or AR. But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

Let's be real, as C & O already illustrated, most votes were for Richardson. Only 3 votes (including my own) were for Stroud. Levis got as many votes as Stroud. Most were also likely taking draft position into consideration when they voted. So I don't think that was as representative of "Which QB do you want?" as it was "Which QB do you want at 4?" I did not make that consideration in my vote, as I believed Ballard was correct when he said that if a franchise QB was available, heaven and earth should be moved to get him.

[IndyNorm]

How do you think Chiefs fans feel about not having a 2018 1st round draft pick? Do you think they care?

Barring injury, C.J. Stroud is well on his way to being a franchise QB, and he's not a Colt. I think we can agree on those things at the very least. You don't have to be frustrated about that, but I am. I'd rather have the sure thing than the chance.

No doubt, Stroud looks like the real deal. But again, you can't determine if Ballard made the right move or not until a couple years down the road.

Each player is different and it's not really possible to know what development path will work best for each one. That said, clearly throwing him into the fire didn't work out for the Jets and Zach Wilson. Does that mean a redshirt year would've turned Zach Wilson into a world beater franchise QB? Not necessarily, but Patrick Mahomes credits his redshirt year with allowing him to be the QB he is today. I do wonder what would've happened with Wilson had he been given that redshirt year, but we'll never really know now.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard.

Mac Jones had 3 OCs in 3 years, one of which made his name in the NFL as a DC. Everything that Belicheat did to aid Tom Brady's development, he did AT LEAST that much to destroy Mac Jones's development. Jones would've been better off in literally any other situation, and might be a better version of Brock Purdy had the 49ers actually drafted him.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard.

Everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class, I said that already. The previous two paragraphs I feel are far more interesting discussion than the above sentence.


Sometimes the truth hurts.

He doesn't, but as several people here said at the time, it was a pretty bold call to call Lawrence a bust at the time he was being anointed as the future of the NFL. I think getting things like that right when going against all conventional wisdom lends credibility to my evaluations going forward.


You bring him up all of the time when he's not mentioned or relevant to a post. So how is he not living rent free in your head?


That particular part was about rankings. Most had Young ahead of Stroud in rankings.


If anyone said they didn't want Young drafted by the Colts then they didn't have him rated higher than Stroud. Just as the poll C&O posted shows.

I still think his poise, accuracy, and ability to improvise give him a chance to succeed and his size gives him a chance to fail. He appears to be hampered by a less than ideal organizational situation as well.


Maybe. Sounds like you're already prepping Young up for Jones/Wilson type of excuses.

Yes, it's a chance. A damn near guarantee was passed up for a chance.


We'll just have to see how it plays out. One thing's for sure though: you bitching non-stop about Ballard not trading up for Stroud isn't going to make a bit of difference other than to continue to annoy everyone else on here.

Daniels likely won't be there at 15, so the point is probably moot, like I already said and it seems you agree. I also haven't watched enough film of him yet to have a real opinion on Daniels, I just very much like what I've seen so far.

Not only is he likely to be gone, but there's no way Ballard would draft him at 15 b/c that would mean that he's giving up on AR. So even suggesting that we draft Daniels is stupid.


I appreciate the compliment portion, but I'm not going to "admit" I'm wrong if I don't feel I am (Yes, lots of "I" there, don't know another way to express the point). You know what I will say I was wrong about? Taylor's fumble problem negating most of his value. I still hate fumbles from RBs, but Taylor has reduced his fumbling quite a bit in the NFL and he produces far too much positive value for it to be negated by his fumbles, especially considering how much less he's done it in the NFL.

That's a step in the right direction, but there are plenty of other times where you were wrong and won't admit it like w/ Wilson and Jones. You also claimed before the season started that Daniel Jones was a good QB and predicted that he'd have a good year. You going to admit you were wrong there or come up with some BS excuse as to why you're not?

Let's be real, as C & O already illustrated, most votes were for Richardson. Only 3 votes (including my own) were for Stroud. Levis got as many votes as Stroud. Most were also likely taking draft position into consideration when they voted. So I don't think that was as representative of "Which QB do you want?" as it was "Which QB do you want at 4?" I did not make that consideration in my vote, as I believed Ballard was correct when he said that if a franchise QB was available, heaven and earth should be moved to get him.

Agree that most people were probably taking draft position into consideration, but the poll is still objective evidence against your claim that you were the only one who had Stroud rated higher than Young. And BTW I voted for Stroud in that poll too.

[ChaosTheory]

Just regarding the pre-draft QB's... I remember this board being one of the few places not on the Bryce Young train. We had more guys calling for Will Levis than Bryce Young. AR had the most interest.

I know there were guys here on board with Stroud over the rest. I want to say myself, Commish, rm, Norm (?) were a few.

I was coming from a different place than Dam, though. I wasn't super sold on any of them. I just thought Stroud had the best passing skills. He had a great rookie year, but I'm still not ready to anoint him. Especially because AR impressed in limited action and I'm excited for him to take the cuffs our roster which is better than what Stroud has.

[Racehorse]

There's only one perspective any of us have. Can't say what your perspective or anyone else's is. Mine is that a franchise QB was there for the taking and Ballard did not move heaven and earth to get him as he promised.



How do you think Chiefs fans feel about not having a 2018 1st round draft pick? Do you think they care?

Barring injury, C.J. Stroud is well on his way to being a franchise QB, and he's not a Colt. I think we can agree on those things at the very least. You don't have to be frustrated about that, but I am. I'd rather have the sure thing than the chance.



Each player is different and it's not really possible to know what development path will work best for each one. That said, clearly throwing him into the fire didn't work out for the Jets and Zach Wilson. Does that mean a redshirt year would've turned Zach Wilson into a world beater franchise QB? Not necessarily, but Patrick Mahomes credits his redshirt year with allowing him to be the QB he is today. I do wonder what would've happened with Wilson had he been given that redshirt year, but we'll never really know now.



Mac Jones had 3 OCs in 3 years, one of which made his name in the NFL as a DC. Everything that Belicheat did to aid Tom Brady's development, he did AT LEAST that much to destroy Mac Jones's development. Jones would've been better off in literally any other situation, and might be a better version of Brock Purdy had the 49ers actually drafted him.



Everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class, I said that already. The previous two paragraphs I feel are far more interesting discussion than the above sentence.



He doesn't, but as several people here said at the time, it was a pretty bold call to call Lawrence a bust at the time he was being anointed as the future of the NFL. I think getting things like that right when going against all conventional wisdom lends credibility to my evaluations going forward.



That particular part was about rankings. Most had Young ahead of Stroud in rankings.



I still think his poise, accuracy, and ability to improvise give him a chance to succeed and his size gives him a chance to fail. He appears to be hampered by a less than ideal organizational situation as well.



Yes, it's a chance. A damn near guarantee was passed up for a chance.



Daniels likely won't be there at 15, so the point is probably moot, like I already said and it seems you agree. I also haven't watched enough film of him yet to have a real opinion on Daniels, I just very much like what I've seen so far.



I appreciate the compliment portion, but I'm not going to "admit" I'm wrong if I don't feel I am (Yes, lots of "I" there, don't know another way to express the point). You know what I will say I was wrong about? Taylor's fumble problem negating most of his value. I still hate fumbles from RBs, but Taylor has reduced his fumbling quite a bit in the NFL and he produces far too much positive value for it to be negated by his fumbles, especially considering how much less he's done it in the NFL.



Let's be real, as C & O already illustrated, most votes were for Richardson. Only 3 votes (including my own) were for Stroud. Levis got as many votes as Stroud. Most were also likely taking draft position into consideration when they voted. So I don't think that was as representative of "Which QB do you want?" as it was "Which QB do you want at 4?" I did not make that consideration in my vote, as I believed Ballard was correct when he said that if a franchise QB was available, heaven and earth should be moved to get him.
I'm not going to comment on much here, except how you act (harp on) regarding Stroud, and the part about votes and moving heaven and earth.

Yes, I think most of us voted with the idea that it was between Levis and AR. There was no feasible concept where we would get a shot at Stroud or Young. It was known for quite some time that Carolina moved up to get Young. This means we were not going to get a shot at Stroud, because HOU is a division rival. You say we could have moved up like Carolina did, but the asking price was very steep, it seems. Why do that if you have Stroud and Richardson rated about equally, as it seems Ballard did?

About your harping, that is the real issue. I am not asking you to "admit" that Stroud was not as you predicted, because that would be a lie. I am saying that you should give it a rest. we all agree he is doing an amazing job, but we also saw what AR was able to do in our offense, and it was just as electric.

[apballin]

Stroud played better than I thought he would in his first season I’m not gonna lie. He was lights out for a few weeks there against some pretty solid defenses and has pretty average WR. His poise in the last game was amazing for a rookie so I’d say Dam your assessment of him was correct…… however I voted AR and in the short sample size of what we seen that was with NO Jonathan Taylor I’m still convinced AR is the man and will do things we’ve never seen before from a QB. This dudes gonna be legendary.

I know gms and owners say a lot of bullshit but I fully believe if AR and Stroud were both sitting there Colts would’ve taken AR over Stroud

[omahacolt]

It's a shame he acts like that, because he actually makes some good posts here. Humility is just not his strong suit.

exactly


its fucking insane the amount of ego on that guy. nobody wants to sift through his patting himself on the back to understand his fucking point.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Anthony Richardson llll),, - 10 ltt Votes

C.J. Stroud llllllllllllllllllllllllll - 3 lllll Votes

Will Levis llllllllllllllllllllllllllllt - 3 lllll Votes

Bryce Young llllllllllllllllllllllll - 1 lllll Votes

Trade Back lllllllllllllllllllllllllt - 1 llllt Votes

Hendon Hooker lllllllllllllllllt - 0 llll, Votes



http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161298

o
o


I voted for Stroud, but I knew that the Colts had no shot to get him ...... I voted for who I wanted, not who I thought would be available by the time that the Colts picked.

Richardson would have been my 2nd choice.

o

[Dam8610]

No doubt, Stroud looks like the real deal. But again, you can't determine if Ballard made the right move or not until a couple years down the road.

I can determine that he did not live up to his word when he said that if a franchise QB was available, he would move heaven and earth to get him. The formerly available franchise QB is now a Texan because Ballard did not move heaven and earth (trade to 1) to get him.

Just be a man instead of a little cunt and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard.


Just be a man instead of a little cunt and admit that you were wrong. It's not that hard.



Sometimes the truth hurts.

So you don't care for nuance at all? I already said everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class. In some cases, those QBs came in with fatal flaws, in some cases the team destroyed the development of the QB, all 5 of them appear to be busts now. I do wish I had made more noise about Brock Purdy at the time, he impressed me when I was watching Breece Hall and Charlie Kolar film.

You bring him up all of the time when he's not mentioned or relevant to a post. So how is he not living rent free in your head?

Because the rest of the world, no less than half of this board included, was ready to anoint him the next Peyton Manning when he came into the league. I correctly predicted that he would never be that, or even close, and seemingly was on an island by myself with that opinion (I think maybe Chris Simms was the only draft media person that didn't have Lawrence as QB1 and Player 1 that year). The only space Trevor Lawrence occupies in my head is as the prime example of "QBs who can't read a defense".

If anyone said they didn't want Young drafted by the Colts then they didn't have him rated higher than Stroud. Just as the poll C&O posted shows.

Bullshit. Most people said things like "I don't really have a preference between the 4 QBs, I'll just trust whatever the Colts FO does." That's fine, but you don't get to come back 8 months later claiming a strong opinion on any of them then. Most people who actually ranked the QBs had Young ahead of Stroud. All that poll, entitled "Who do you want at 4?" shows is that most people didn't think any of the QBs were worth trading up for, which was the prevailing sentiment at the time, and most people didn't think Stroud would get to 4, which makes sense because unless Jack Easterby was still running the Texans there's no way he should've gotten past 2 (and the Panthers are kind of stupid for not taking him at 1). It shows that most people thought Richardson was better than Levis, which you didn't have to squint too hard to see. Clearly one of those QBs was worth trading up for.

Maybe. Sounds like you're already prepping Young up for Jones/Wilson type of excuses.

I really don't feel it's fair to be held accountable for a dysfunctional organization fucking up a QB, because it wasn't my decisions that fucked up the QB. I couldn't control what the Cheats did to Jones (though if I could I'd've probably traded him because fuck the Cheats), I couldn't control what the Jets did to Wilson, and I can't control what the Panthers do to Young. Sometimes shitty franchises ruin good players.

We'll just have to see how it plays out. One thing's for sure though: you bitching non-stop about Ballard not trading up for Stroud isn't going to make a bit of difference other than to continue to annoy everyone else on here.

The discussion will stop if you stop replying. I enjoy discussion, especially on topics I feel strongly about.

Not only is he likely to be gone, but there's no way Ballard would draft him at 15 b/c that would mean that he's giving up on AR. So even suggesting that we draft Daniels is stupid.

If Richardson doesn't pan out, I won't be the only Colts fan that will count all the franchise QBs Ballard missed believing in him.

That's a step in the right direction, but there are plenty of other times where you were wrong and won't admit it like w/ Wilson and Jones. You also claimed before the season started that Daniel Jones was a good QB and predicted that he'd have a good year. You going to admit you were wrong there or come up with some BS excuse as to why you're not?

I did that to show that I actually do reconsider my positions and change them when the evidence shows I should. Once again, with Wilson and Jones, I firmly believe their organizations did several disservices to their development, so while they likely won't be good NFL QBs now, no one will ever know what would've happened if they went to situations better suited to their success. I'll certainly say that the Jets shouldn't have drafted Wilson and the Cheats shouldn't have drafted Jones based on what they did to them, but, as an example, if either had gone to a situation like Jordan Love's, I think either of them would've turned out better than Jordan Love.

As for Daniel Jones, I vaguely remember a discussion where I said he could be a top 15 QB this year. I don't think that was as outlandish of a claim as you make it out to be. Obviously he wasn't because he got hurt, but based on his 2022, "league average starter" was not an outlandish claim for Daniel Jones.

Agree that most people were probably taking draft position into consideration, but the poll is still objective evidence against your claim that you were the only one who had Stroud rated higher than Young. And BTW I voted for Stroud in that poll too.

The poll is clearly worded in such a way that "at 4" is a consideration in the vote. That makes it objective evidence that the votes reflect who people want "at 4", which allows people to make assumptions of which 3 players will be picked by that point. Most people would've assumed Stroud and Young to be gone at that point, and wouldn't have voted for them for that reason. It seems you may be the only one on the board who believed Stroud would be available at 4, because both C & O and I have said we did not take "at 4" into consideration and voted for who we wanted.

Just regarding the pre-draft QB's... I remember this board being one of the few places not on the Bryce Young train. We had more guys calling for Will Levis than Bryce Young. AR had the most interest.

I know there were guys here on board with Stroud over the rest. I want to say myself, Commish, rm, Norm (?) were a few.

I was coming from a different place than Dam, though. I wasn't super sold on any of them. I just thought Stroud had the best passing skills. He had a great rookie year, but I'm still not ready to anoint him. Especially because AR impressed in limited action and I'm excited for him to take the cuffs our roster which is better than what Stroud has.

I think you would agree that there is a difference in these two positions:

1) Stroud is the best of the 4 QBs but it is a very close group.

2) Stroud is hands down, far and away the best QB in this class because he's the most pro ready and carries the least risk factors.

The first position (the one you professed in your post) would lead you to stand pat and take whoever falls to you at 4.

The second position (my position since January 2023) would cause you to move heaven and earth to get to 1.

I'm not going to comment on much here, except how you act (harp on) regarding Stroud, and the part about votes and moving heaven and earth.

Yes, I think most of us voted with the idea that it was between Levis and AR. There was no feasible concept where we would get a shot at Stroud or Young. It was known for quite some time that Carolina moved up to get Young. This means we were not going to get a shot at Stroud, because HOU is a division rival. You say we could have moved up like Carolina did, but the asking price was very steep, it seems. Why do that if you have Stroud and Richardson rated about equally, as it seems Ballard did?

About your harping, that is the real issue. I am not asking you to "admit" that Stroud was not as you predicted, because that would be a lie. I am saying that you should give it a rest. we all agree he is doing an amazing job, but we also saw what AR was able to do in our offense, and it was just as electric.

Would you prefer 95% odds of getting the thing you want or 50% odds? That's why I'm frustrated. If you want me to stop talking about it, stop coming back to reply. I enjoy the discussion, but discussion takes more than one party.

exactly


its fucking insane the amount of ego on that guy. nobody wants to sift through his patting himself on the back to understand his fucking point.

This post, coming from you, is hilarious. No one on this board has a bigger ego than you, and for some reason everyone just lets you get away with it. I have strong opinions, I won't deny that, and I don't back down on them, especially not because "conventional wisdom" says I'm wrong. "Conventional wisdom" leads to a lot of stupid conclusions, and too many football media experts and quite frankly front offices are too heavily influenced by it. So I'm not going to back down from my opinions when I form them just because "conventional wisdom" says to do so. If you want to get me to say I'm wrong, show me evidence.

o


I voted for Stroud, but I knew that the Colts had no shot to get him ...... I voted for who I wanted, not who I thought would be available by the time that the Colts picked.

Richardson would have been my 2nd choice.

o

Thank you for illustrating my point. Did anyone here besides me want to move up to 1 for Stroud? I doubt it, or if they did, they were very quiet about it. As things stand today, it seems like it would've been the right move.

[ChaosTheory]

I think you would agree that there is a difference in these two positions:

1) Stroud is the best of the 4 QBs but it is a very close group.

2) Stroud is hands down, far and away the best QB in this class because he's the most pro ready and carries the least risk factors.

The first position (the one you professed in your post) would lead you to stand pat and take whoever falls to you at 4.

The second position (my position since January 2023) would cause you to move heaven and earth to get to 1.


Absolutely. I was never that comfortable with the class. Stroud was my preference, but not to the point of trading up. I believe that was also the case for the other guys who preferred Stroud, aside from yourself.

I'm cautious by nature, so as solid as he's looked this season, I still hold off concluding that he was in fact worth trading for. Especially because AR showed qualities I didn't think he'd developed already. I don't just hope, but legitimately think, that AR can become something scary based off the little we saw of him.

Not that I don't completely understand you feeling vindicated.

[Dam8610]

Absolutely. I was never that comfortable with the class. Stroud was my preference, but not to the point of trading up. I believe that was also the case for the other guys who preferred Stroud, aside from yourself.

I'm cautious by nature, so as solid as he's looked this season, I still hold off concluding that he was in fact worth trading for. Especially because AR showed qualities I didn't think he'd developed already. I don't just hope, but legitimately think, that AR can become something scary based off the little we saw of him.

Not that I don't completely understand you feeling vindicated.

I absolutely get that sentiment. There's certainly still a chance that Richardson could be better than Stroud. I still hope he is. The thing I don't like is that we're still saying "chance" and "hope" about our team's guy and the front office let a division rival get what is likely to be the OROY and a franchise QB when they could've gone and gotten the franchise QB and let the division rival be talking about "chance" and "hope".

[Colts And Orioles]

Thank you for illustrating my point. Did anyone here besides me want to move up to 1 for Stroud? I doubt it, or if they did, they were very quiet about it. As things stand today, it seems like it would've been the right move.





o


I didn't illustrate your point. I was alluding to the fact that the Colts were picking 4th, that Stroud was going to be picked no lower than 2nd or 3rd, and that there was no indication that they were going to magically and necessarily be offered a fair deal to trade up for him. Don't speak for me and/or suppose anything other than what I wrote.

o

[Dam8610]

o


I didn't illustrate your point. I was alluding to the fact that the Colts were picking 4th, that Stroud was going to be picked no lower than 2nd or 3rd, and that there was no indication that they were going to magically and necessarily be offered a fair deal to trade up for him. Don't speak for me and/or suppose anything other than what I wrote.

o

My point was that most people voted in that poll based on availability, and those of us who voted for Stroud likely did so without that restriction in mind. Did you not say that you voted for who you wanted and you didn't think Stroud would be there at 4? Funny, that's what your post says.

[Racehorse]

Would you prefer 95% odds of getting the thing you want or 50% odds? That's why I'm frustrated. If you want me to stop talking about it, stop coming back to reply. I enjoy the discussion, but discussion takes more than one party.



Stop bringing it up in every thread that relates to the Texans or our quarterback. That is what I mean by harping on it.

[Colts And Orioles]

My point was that most people voted in that poll based on availability, and those of us who voted for Stroud likely did so without that restriction in mind. Did you not say that you voted for who you wanted and you didn't think Stroud would be there at 4? Funny, that's what your post says.





o


Yes, that's exactly what I said, which does not illustrate your point. You said that you wanted to trade up for Stroud, and I didn't say anything of the sort.






Thank you for illustrating my point. Did anyone here besides me want to move up to 1 for Stroud? I doubt it, or if they did, they were very quiet about it. As things stand today, it seems like it would've been the right move.







There is nothing "funny" about what I said.

o

[Dam8610]

o


Yes, that's exactly what I said, which does not illustrate your point. You said that you wanted to trade up for Stroud, and I didn't say anything of the sort.





There is nothing "funny" about what I said.

o

This is the point it illustrates:

The poll is clearly worded in such a way that "at 4" is a consideration in the vote. That makes it objective evidence that the votes reflect who people want "at 4", which allows people to make assumptions of which 3 players will be picked by that point. Most people would've assumed Stroud and Young to be gone at that point, and wouldn't have voted for them for that reason. It seems you may be the only one on the board who believed Stroud would be available at 4, because both C & O and I have said we did not take "at 4" into consideration and voted for who we wanted.

[Dam8610]

Stop bringing it up in every thread that relates to the Texans or our quarterback. That is what I mean by harping on it.

I'm inclined to bring up whatever I want whenever I want, as anyone else around here can, too.

[albany ed]

Richardson will have a better career than Stroud.

[Dam8610]

Richardson will have a better career than Stroud.

Bold prediction, hope you're right.

[albany ed]

Bold prediction, hope you're right.

Me too, cuz then I can come to the board and say over and over and over and over again that I was right.

[Dam8610]

Me too, cuz then I can come to the board and say over and over and over and over again that I was right.

That would be great for you. I'd enjoy the championships more.

[Racehorse]

I'm inclined to bring up whatever I want whenever I want, as anyone else around here can, too.
We do not moderate what is brought up, but if you want people to think you are a decent fellow, I would encourage you to drop it. (Said with absolute love in my heart for all mankind)

[IndyNorm]

I can determine that he did not live up to his word when he said that if a franchise QB was available, he would move heaven and earth to get him. The formerly available franchise QB is now a Texan because Ballard did not move heaven and earth (trade to 1) to get him.

No, you can't at this point b/c that statement assumes that Stroud will stay healthy and continue to at least be as good as he was his rookie year and that AR will continue to be injury plagued or he won't improve on what we did see on the field this year (which was pretty damn promising).

Totally get your sentiment that a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, but Ballard drafted AR w/ the long game in mind rather than just his rookie year. If 2-3 years down the road Stroud is an all pro and AR can't stay on the field or doesn't develop then I will completely agree w/ you that Ballard fucked up by not trading up to draft Stroud. But the fact is that it's WAY too early to say that Ballard definitely fucked up. Especially when you consider that despite the injury concerns AR still has the higher ceiling.



So you don't care for nuance at all? I already said everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class. In some cases, those QBs came in with fatal flaws, in some cases the team destroyed the development of the QB, all 5 of them appear to be busts now. I do wish I had made more noise about Brock Purdy at the time, he impressed me when I was watching Breece Hall and Charlie Kolar film.


I absolutely care for and think nuance is important, but what you do isn't adding nuance. You make definitive statements based on hypotheticals to try to prove that you're not wrong.

Adding nuance is stating something like: Yeah, I was wrong about Wilson. Dudes a total bust. But I don't think the Jets did him any favors by throwing him to the wolves, and if they had let him sit for part or all of his rookie year it might have worked out better. Certainly couldn't have hurt anything.

What you say (paraphrasing): I wasn't wrong on Wilson. The Jets fucked up. If they had listened to me and sat him his rookie year he'd be a really good QB.

Also, BTW: I disagree w/ that sentiment on Wilson. The dude's basically the Gen Z version of Ryan Leaf, only with pill popping swapped out for milf hunting.


Because the rest of the world, no less than half of this board included, was ready to anoint him the next Peyton Manning when he came into the league. I correctly predicted that he would never be that, or even close, and seemingly was on an island by myself with that opinion (I think maybe Chris Simms was the only draft media person that didn't have Lawrence as QB1 and Player 1 that year). The only space Trevor Lawrence occupies in my head is as the prime example of "QBs who can't read a defense".

I'm not disagreeing with you that Lawrence hasn't and in all likelihood won't live up to expectations. I do think the book isn't near as closed on him as you think it is, but I digress. The point I've been making is that you bring him up ALL THE TIME. Even when the discussion has absolutely nothing to do with him whatsoever (like how you did on this thread).

Bullshit. Most people said things like "I don't really have a preference between the 4 QBs, I'll just trust whatever the Colts FO does." That's fine, but you don't get to come back 8 months later claiming a strong opinion on any of them then. Most people who actually ranked the QBs had Young ahead of Stroud. All that poll, entitled "Who do you want at 4?" shows is that most people didn't think any of the QBs were worth trading up for, which was the prevailing sentiment at the time, and most people didn't think Stroud would get to 4, which makes sense because unless Jack Easterby was still running the Texans there's no way he should've gotten past 2 (and the Panthers are kind of stupid for not taking him at 1). It shows that most people thought Richardson was better than Levis, which you didn't have to squint too hard to see. Clearly one of those QBs was worth trading up for.


Calling BS again. As Chaos backed me up on, there were quite a few of us here who specifically said that we did not want the Colts to draft Young. I don't see how anyone who made that statement would have Young ranked higher than Stroud. It has been almost a year and a ton of beers since then, so maybe there were more people on here who liked Young than I remember. But I definitely remember that there was a good portion of us on here who did not want Young at all.

I really don't feel it's fair to be held accountable for a dysfunctional organization fucking up a QB, because it wasn't my decisions that fucked up the QB. I couldn't control what the Cheats did to Jones (though if I could I'd've probably traded him because fuck the Cheats), I couldn't control what the Jets did to Wilson, and I can't control what the Panthers do to Young. Sometimes shitty franchises ruin good players.

I don't disagree w/ this, but in your effort to be always right you state these circumstances as the definite root cause as to why a given player you liked hasn't or didn't work out. It could very well be that the said player just isn't a good, NFL quality player.

The discussion will stop if you stop replying. I enjoy discussion, especially on topics I feel strongly about.


I honestly forget what this was a response to. I think it was that I was again trying to get through your thick head that it's too early to definitely say that staying put and drafting AR instead of trading up for Stroud is the franchise killing disaster that you claim it is.

If Richardson doesn't pan out, I won't be the only Colts fan that will count all the franchise QBs Ballard missed believing in him.

If AR doesn't pan out then Ballard is probably gone. With that said as much shit as I give Ballard on here, I fully admit he's good at his job. Certainly better than his predecessor and better than any of us armchair GMs on here would be. Also, he's shown that he won't hesitate to cut bait like he did w/ Wentz. I think we need to give him leeway for the next season or 2 before we start calling for him to replace AR.

I did that to show that I actually do reconsider my positions and change them when the evidence shows I should. Once again, with Wilson and Jones, I firmly believe their organizations did several disservices to their development, so while they likely won't be good NFL QBs now, no one will ever know what would've happened if they went to situations better suited to their success. I'll certainly say that the Jets shouldn't have drafted Wilson and the Cheats shouldn't have drafted Jones based on what they did to them, but, as an example, if either had gone to a situation like Jordan Love's, I think either of them would've turned out better than Jordan Love.

Like I said earlier, admitting you were wrong was a good step forward. You should try it more often.

As for Daniel Jones, I vaguely remember a discussion where I said he could be a top 15 QB this year. I don't think that was as outlandish of a claim as you make it out to be. Obviously he wasn't because he got hurt, but based on his 2022, "league average starter" was not an outlandish claim for Daniel Jones.

Basically you thought he could be a top 15 QB. I balked at this. Then you came back w/ saying that you watched film on him, that he showed well in said film, and that you predicted that he would improve upon his '22 season and have a good year in '23. This obviously didn't happen, and not just b/c he got hurt ~1/3 of the way through the season. He was GOD AWFUL prior to that.

The poll is clearly worded in such a way that "at 4" is a consideration in the vote. That makes it objective evidence that the votes reflect who people want "at 4", which allows people to make assumptions of which 3 players will be picked by that point. Most people would've assumed Stroud and Young to be gone at that point, and wouldn't have voted for them for that reason. It seems you may be the only one on the board who believed Stroud would be available at 4, because both C & O and I have said we did not take "at 4" into consideration and voted for who we wanted.

As with C&O, you're trying to speak for me. I answered the poll w/ how it read: Who do you want the Colts to draft at 4? and not Who do you want the Colts to draft at 4 that you think will likely be there? Fully understand why folks would think the 2nd part is implied, but I did not.

I also find it interesting that I am actually agreeing w/ you on something, but yet you seem to still want to argue about it.


This post, coming from you, is hilarious. No one on this board has a bigger ego than you, and for some reason everyone just lets you get away with it. I have strong opinions, I won't deny that, and I don't back down on them, especially not because "conventional wisdom" says I'm wrong. "Conventional wisdom" leads to a lot of stupid conclusions, and too many football media experts and quite frankly front offices are too heavily influenced by it. So I'm not going to back down from my opinions when I form them just because "conventional wisdom" says to do so. If you want to get me to say I'm wrong, show me evidence.


A few observations on this: omaha says a lot of things in jest (or at least that's how they come across), whereas you do not. On top of that he'll bring up something once or twice and then let it go whereas you bring it up again, and again, and.......(out to infinity) again. Also, his statements seem come from him just wanting the Colts to be better, whereas yours are more about trying to prove that you're right above anything else. Maybe that's not your intent, but it's definitely how you come across on here. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

[Racehorse]

Also, BTW: I disagree w/ that sentiment on Wilson. The dude's basically the Gen Z version of Ryan Leaf, only with pill popping swapped out for milf hunting.




Hey, what's wrong with milf hunting?

[IndyNorm]

Hey, what's wrong with milf hunting?

Nothing really I guess lol. And I really can't blame the guy for banging all of his mom's hot friends. I probably would too.

But seemed like all of that was a pretty big off the field distraction, which probably didn't help with his lack of development as a QB.

[Dam8610]

No, you can't at this point b/c that statement assumes that Stroud will stay healthy and continue to at least be as good as he was his rookie year and that AR will continue to be injury plagued or he won't improve on what we did see on the field this year (which was pretty damn promising).

Totally get your sentiment that a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, but Ballard drafted AR w/ the long game in mind rather than just his rookie year. If 2-3 years down the road Stroud is an all pro and AR can't stay on the field or doesn't develop then I will completely agree w/ you that Ballard fucked up by not trading up to draft Stroud. But the fact is that it's WAY too early to say that Ballard definitely fucked up. Especially when you consider that despite the injury concerns AR still has the higher ceiling.

You clearly understand what I'm saying. Stroud is already showing it, and the Colts could've had him if they wanted to make the investment. Yes, Richardson could have a better career, I hope he does, but right now the Texans have a franchise QB barring injury and the Colts might have a franchise QB if he can stay healthy. I can't put it better than what you did, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


I absolutely care for and think nuance is important, but what you do isn't adding nuance. You make definitive statements based on hypotheticals to try to prove that you're not wrong.

Adding nuance is stating something like: Yeah, I was wrong about Wilson. Dudes a total bust. But I don't think the Jets did him any favors by throwing him to the wolves, and if they had let him sit for part or all of his rookie year it might have worked out better. Certainly couldn't have hurt anything.

What you say (paraphrasing): I wasn't wrong on Wilson. The Jets fucked up. If they had listened to me and sat him his rookie year he'd be a really good QB.

Also, BTW: I disagree w/ that sentiment on Wilson. The dude's basically the Gen Z version of Ryan Leaf, only with pill popping swapped out for milf hunting.

That paraphrase is pretty out there and not really what I say at all. Of course a franchise is going to implement what they believe is the best course for each player's development, and they would never listen to anyone outside their organization unless they specifically sought out that person as a consultant. Clearly, the Jets picked the wrong developmental path for Wilson. Maybe there wasn't a right one. That said, I don't know how much clearer I can be than:

The entire 2021 QB class appears to be a bust.

I already said everyone was wrong about the 2021 QB class. In some cases, those QBs came in with fatal flaws, in some cases the team destroyed the development of the QB, all 5 of them appear to be busts now.

I pretty much said exactly what you said was the "right way" to do it in the post you responded to, actually. So I truly don't get the point here. I guess I'll say it like this and then be done with it: If the Jets planned to do what they did to Zach Wilson, and the Cheats planned ro do what they did with Mac Jones, all parties would've been better off had those selections not been made. I think I said that part before, but I can't find it now.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Lawrence hasn't and in all likelihood won't live up to expectations. I do think the book isn't near as closed on him as you think it is, but I digress. The point I've been making is that you bring him up ALL THE TIME. Even when the discussion has absolutely nothing to do with him whatsoever (like how you did on this thread).

He's the starting QB of a division rival, so always somewhat relevant here. He's also relevant to a discussion of the 2021 QB class. You brought up Mac Jones and Zach Wilson as points to discredit my opinion, why wouldn't I bring up one of the biggest points in the favor of the credibility of my opinion? Yes, I'm loudly going to proclaim the W on Trevor Lawrence, because I loudly and proudly got it right in the pre-draft process. Same reason I won't claim any sort of W on Purdy, I didn't say anything back then even though I saw him back then watching Breece Hall and Charlie Kolar and thought he stood out on film more than you would expect from a college QB who nobody had ranked highly.

Calling BS again. As Chaos backed me up on, there were quite a few of us here who specifically said that we did not want the Colts to draft Young. I don't see how anyone who made that statement would have Young ranked higher than Stroud. It has been almost a year and a ton of beers since then, so maybe there were more people on here who liked Young than I remember. But I definitely remember that there was a good portion of us on here who did not want Young at all.

Please show me the posted rankings or the posts where anyone but me is saying that Stroud is clearly better than Young and should be taken before him. The only posted rankings I saw or remembered were someone in that poll who put Young at 1 ahead of Stroud and I think Chromeburn did like a full scouting report on each of the top 4 QBs, dedicating a post to each, had Young at the top, and said he did them in the order of his ranking. By the way, props to Chromeburn on that, it's a lot of time and effort to make something like that.

I get not wanting to draft Young, his height was a clear risk, but that doesn't mean you thought Stroud was better or wanted to draft him. Clearly you, specifically, did, based on the vote in the poll, but I think you and I were more the exception than the rule.

I don't disagree w/ this, but in your effort to be always right you state these circumstances as the definite root cause as to why a given player you liked hasn't or didn't work out. It could very well be that the said player just isn't a good, NFL quality player.

Absolutely that possibility exists, I already acknowledged it earlier in this post. I state circumstances because they're relevant factors in why a player might not have worked out. Mac Jones and Zach Wilson don't look like they'll be starting NFL QBs at this point, but I'd bet if the Cheats and Jets each cut those QBs, they'd find another team. That's because most NFL teams saw both players as having significant talent coming out of college, and there's probably some team out there that believes they can still unlock that potential.

I honestly forget what this was a response to. I think it was that I was again trying to get through your thick head that it's too early to definitely say that staying put and drafting AR instead of trading up for Stroud is the franchise killing disaster that you claim it is.

Never claimed it was a franchise killing disaster, just frustrating to be holding a lottery ticket when it's clear the annoying next door neighbor cashed theirs in for the jackpot.

If AR doesn't pan out then Ballard is probably gone. With that said as much shit as I give Ballard on here, I fully admit he's good at his job. Certainly better than his predecessor and better than any of us armchair GMs on here would be. Also, he's shown that he won't hesitate to cut bait like he did w/ Wentz. I think we need to give him leeway for the next season or 2 before we start calling for him to replace AR.

This, as much as anything, is what frustrates me about this situation. Ballard is a great GM, I'd argue top 5 in the league at the very least. His job now rides on the right arm of Anthony Richardson. It could've rode on the right arm of C.J. Stroud and been much more secure. Maybe Richardson will work our better in the end, or maybe Irsay fires Ballard and replaces him with we won't know who until it happens, but the likelihood of it being an upgrade is slim to none.

Basically you thought he could be a top 15 QB. I balked at this. Then you came back w/ saying that you watched film on him, that he showed well in said film, and that you predicted that he would improve upon his '22 season and have a good year in '23. This obviously didn't happen, and not just b/c he got hurt ~1/3 of the way through the season. He was GOD AWFUL prior to that.

You're going to need to quote me on that. I believe the discussion was on QBs who could have a better year than Jalen Hurts, and one that you scoffed just as hard at as Daniel Jones who I was FAR more confident in than Daniel Jones was Dak Prescott. I should've included C.J. Stroud in the group, clearly. As far as the film part, I've never watched film on Daniel Jones and never claimed to. You might be confusing me with Lawrence Owen on that part, he did a whole feature on his YouTube channel about the Colts pursuing Daniel Jones in the offseason. I was never interested in that, either, as I always believed his ceiling was mid-tier starter.

As with C&O, you're trying to speak for me. I answered the poll w/ how it read: Who do you want the Colts to draft at 4? and not Who do you want the Colts to draft at 4 that you think will likely be there? Fully understand why folks would think the 2nd part is implied, but I did not.

I wasn't speaking for anyone. Based on what you said here, a more interesting question would then be: Did you believe that Stroud would be on the board at 4? If not, did you want to trade up for him or do you think what happened was the best course of action given the circumstances? Do you think drafting Levis at 4, as Ballard suggested would've happened had a different team traded up to 3 and drafted Richardson, would've been preferable to trading up to 1 for Stroud?

I also find it interesting that I am actually agreeing w/ you on something, but yet you seem to still want to argue about it.

There are clear points of disagreement, and it seems also clear points of misunderstanding. Those are the things from which the continued discussion is borne.

A few observations on this: omaha says a lot of things in jest (or at least that's how they come across), whereas you do not. On top of that he'll bring up something once or twice and then let it go whereas you bring it up again, and again, and.......(out to infinity) again. Also, his statements seem come from him just wanting the Colts to be better, whereas yours are more about trying to prove that you're right above anything else. Maybe that's not your intent, but it's definitely how you come across on here. And I'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

Omaha acts like he's better than everyone else constantly and most of the things he says "in jest" are insults to people who dare to disagree with him. Honestly, if I acted the way Omaha does on this board, I'd expect to get treated the way I get treated. I do say some things in jest, one example earlier in this post would be the line about putting Stroud in the "could be better than Hurts this year" group at the beginning of the season, no one could've seen that coming from Stroud. As a Colts fan, ultimately what I want in every situation is for the Colts to get better. I'd love to see them put together a dynasty the likes of which makes the Cheats fans jealous, all the more because it was accomplished without cheating. That said, I do enjoy the game of football, and talking about the game of football, beyond just being a Colts fan. I enjoy learning about everything about the game, from the on field chess match of strategy that's constantly going on to the players whose drive and talent change and evolve those things even down to contract structure and how various clauses and contract language affect the salary cap. Point being the things I say may not be only about the Colts being better, because I enjoy all aspects of football as football beyond just the Colts.

Of course, not many conversations here break out about the subtle differences between Cover 3 and Cover 7 and in which situations you'd prefer to have the MEG (man everywhere he goes) half of the field vs. the situations where it would be preferable to have full zone or the implications of likely to be earned vs. not likely to be earned incentives in contracts for players and the impact it will have on the cap for teams, but when they do, I'll be all about them.