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Puck
09-10-2017, 07:21 PM
Grigsons gone. Colts are worse. What say you?

Hoopsdoc
09-10-2017, 07:30 PM
Not only worse, but frighteningly worse.

This team is worse than the 0-16 Lions. I really think that.

GoBigBlue88
09-10-2017, 07:33 PM
Just as it was Luck's fault Pagano mismanaged the clock vs DET, in Dam's world, I'm sure it is Chud's fault Pagano didn't challenge the obvious TD.

omahacolt
09-10-2017, 07:58 PM
dam will come up with some excuse. but truthfully there is none. chuck pagano is the worst colts coach i have ever seen. maybe the worst coach i have ever seen


he is truthfully that bad

Indiana V2
09-10-2017, 08:03 PM
dam will come up with some excuse. but truthfully there is none. chuck pagano is the worst colts coach i have ever seen. maybe the worst coach i have ever seen


he is truthfully that bad

And somehow he has survived 6 seasons.

indycolts2
09-10-2017, 08:07 PM
And somehow he has survived 6 seasons.

That could be because even though Irsay is a great owner to his players he may also be the dumbest owner in the league. Dumbest owner along with dumbest HC = real bad results.

Coltsalr
09-10-2017, 08:29 PM
@MikeWellsNFL
This just summed up Chuck Pagano in the postgame presser. He said they got their "ass" kicked by the "49ers."

[Dam mode]
Clearly this speaks to Pagano being able to see into the future and see the October 49ers game!

PAGANO IS THE THREE-EYED RAVEN
[/Dam mode]

Racehorse
09-10-2017, 08:49 PM
Dam is a coward. He never once posted in the game thread. I have no use for clowns like that.

Luck4Reich
09-10-2017, 08:52 PM
Dam is a coward. He never once posted in the game thread. I have no use for clowns like that.

Too busy chopping wood to post

omahacolt
09-10-2017, 08:54 PM
Dam is a coward. He never once posted in the game thread. I have no use for clowns like that.

of course he is a coward

has he ever once admitted he was wrong

Racehorse
09-10-2017, 08:55 PM
of course he is a coward

has he ever once admitted he was wrong

Never

apballin
09-10-2017, 08:59 PM
Isn't this on Ballard for not addressing the QB situation?

This isn't all on Pagano

omahacolt
09-10-2017, 09:10 PM
Isn't this on Ballard for not addressing the QB situation?

This isn't all on Pagano

Fuck off

Luck4Reich
09-10-2017, 09:12 PM
Isn't this on Ballard for not addressing the QB situation?

This isn't all on Pagano

Really Dam Jr?

Gimmick
09-10-2017, 09:13 PM
Grigsons gone. Colts are worse. What say you?

Embarrassing post. Grigson was half of the problem you twit.

Luck4Reich
09-10-2017, 09:14 PM
Embarrassing post. Grigson was half of the problem you twit.

You are completely missing the point of the post my friend lol

Gimmick
09-10-2017, 09:15 PM
You are completely missing the point of the post my friend lol

Well if it's just to take a shot at Dam that's fine with me I guess.

Brylok
09-10-2017, 09:16 PM
This thread...good lawd

apballin
09-10-2017, 09:27 PM
Fuck off

The GM botched the QB situation knowing Luck was fucked up, John Madden ain't winning with Tolzien and that bullshit O line

omahacolt
09-10-2017, 09:29 PM
The GM botched the QB situation knowing Luck was fucked up, John Madden ain't winning with Tolzien and that bullshit O line

No.

You seriously can't come in here deflecting blame everywhere away from pagano. Wake up moron

njcoltfan
09-10-2017, 09:32 PM
Isn't this on Ballard for not addressing the QB situation?

This isn't all on Pagano

as far as I'm concerned its on Ballard for not insisting that Pagano be let go when he took the GM job!!

apballin
09-10-2017, 09:32 PM
No.

You seriously can't come in here deflecting blame everywhere away from pagano. Wake up moron

This team kicked our ass last time we played at home with Luck, now they've added one of the best D coodinators of all time

I'm saying it's not all on Pagano

Puck
09-10-2017, 09:33 PM
This team kicked our ass last time we played at home with Luck, now they've added one of the best D coodinators of all time

I'm saying it's not all on Pagano

Well they sure didn't hold them down on defense either!!!!! Even with Luck we weren't scoring 50 on the Rams.

The defense sucks. And that is poor coaching

apballin
09-10-2017, 09:39 PM
Well they sure didn't hold them down on defense either!!!!! Even with Luck we weren't scoring 50 on the Rams.

The defense sucks. And that is poor coaching

11 new starters, they're not gonna be the 85 bears overnight

Indiana V2
09-10-2017, 09:45 PM
11 new starters, they're not gonna be the 85 bears overnight

A for Andrea, or Amber, or Amy?

P for Pagano.

Ballin

Puck
09-10-2017, 09:47 PM
11 new starters, they're not gonna be the 85 bears overnight

Terrible decision starting Green. And having Butler play safety. The offensive game plan sucks and as long as Chud is the OC this will not change... he is terrible and has always been terrible. He is a Pagano choice enough said on that.

I'm not sold on Ballard, but I cant judge him by one offseason either. I can judge Clappy McGetthefuckoffmyteam Pagano he's had more than enough time to show something....anything and he hasn't. Should have kept Arians

Racehorse
09-10-2017, 09:48 PM
A for Andrea, or Amber, or Amy?

P for Pagano.

Ballin
Did he even post during the game? If not, maybe it is because he was on the sidelines not reviewing Mack's TD that he was robbed of. It is clear that Dam or apballin is, in fact, Pagano.

Dam8610
09-10-2017, 11:09 PM
Grigsons gone. Colts are worse. What say you?

No Andrew Luck.

Puck
09-10-2017, 11:25 PM
No Andrew Luck.


What about the defense? Rams scored a lot... too many.... points

Brylok
09-10-2017, 11:27 PM
No Andrew Luck.
Andrew Luck wouldn't have necessarily won that game. Colts got beat in all phases.

Brylok
09-10-2017, 11:30 PM
And away Dam goes...
Disappeared like a fart in the wind. And I don't have anything against him like the rest of y'all do.

Colts And Orioles
09-11-2017, 12:22 AM
No Andrew Luck.




o


Luck probably would have given the Colts a considerably better offense today, and perhaps his presence would have helped the Colts' defense a little, also ...... if the Colts had had more sustained drives, it would have given the Colts' defense more rest while simultaneously making the Rams' defense labor more.


But Andrew Luck's presence/lack of presence had nothing to do with the Colts' offensive unit being hurried up to the line of scrimmage to run a play as quickly as possible when they had clearly just scored a touchdown, and would have gotten an easy reversal of the call on a challenge ........ that was strictly the workings of a head coach that is (at best) crazy or (at worst) a complete moron.


o

Gimmick
09-11-2017, 12:30 AM
I've been telling you guys since January 2014 I think Pagano has ADHD and that's why he makes inconsistent and erratic calls during games all the time.

Maniac
09-11-2017, 04:34 AM
I've been telling you guys since January 2014 I think Pagano has ADHD and that's why he makes inconsistent and erratic calls during games all the time.

No, he's just a fucking moron.

Dam8610
09-11-2017, 04:57 PM
What about the defense? Rams scored a lot... too many.... points

16 of those points were scored by the Rams defense, the Colts offense was outscored by the Rams defense. I'd say more than 90% of the problems the Colts had in this game were caused by the QB position. Andrew Luck solves those problems.

omahacolt
09-11-2017, 05:22 PM
16 of those points were scored by the Rams defense, the Colts offense was outscored by the Rams defense. I'd say more than 90% of the problems the Colts had in this game were caused by the QB position. Andrew Luck solves those problems.

you really are like a trump supporter

no matter how shitty you know pagano is, you just deflect blame and look the other way

Mr. Session
09-11-2017, 05:27 PM
16 of those points were scored by the Rams defense, the Colts offense was outscored by the Rams defense. I'd say more than 90% of the problems the Colts had in this game were caused by the QB position. Andrew Luck solves those problems.

http://i.imgur.com/TFg6AdW.gif

Hoopsdoc
09-11-2017, 05:35 PM
16 of those points were scored by the Rams defense, the Colts offense was outscored by the Rams defense. I'd say more than 90% of the problems the Colts had in this game were caused by the QB position. Andrew Luck solves those problems.

I suppose you're blaming Tolzien for the quick snap on the Mack non td?

DragonTails
09-11-2017, 05:36 PM
16 of those points were scored by the Rams defense, the Colts offense was outscored by the Rams defense. I'd say more than 90% of the problems the Colts had in this game were caused by the QB position. Andrew Luck solves those problems.

I'd say the percentage is equally shared by the lack of talent on the roster and the lack of coaching/vision.

Besides that I believe every one of the scouts should be fired too. This roster is a complete cluster fk.

The only bright side is that the last 2 openers have been locks!

Racehorse
09-11-2017, 06:31 PM
Hey, damass, what do you have to say about Pagano saying we got our asses kicked by the freaking 49ers?

Dam8610
09-11-2017, 06:53 PM
You all hate Pagano so much that I did not mention his name once and you took my comments as a defense of him. Not many teams win when their QB throws two pick sixes. I'd venture a guess that the all-time winning percentage of those teams is less than 5%. No Luck was far and away the biggest problem the Colts had yesterday.

omahacolt
09-11-2017, 07:00 PM
You all hate Pagano so much that I did not mention his name once and you took my comments as a defense of him. Not many teams win when their QB throws two pick sixes. I'd venture a guess that the all-time winning percentage of those teams is less than 5%. No Luck was far and away the biggest problem the Colts had yesterday.

because you don't criticize him. because you are a fucking trumper.


just a weak minded pussy that can't stand the thought of being wrong. grow a dick. pagano's teams are constantly blown out and you just turn your head and say not his fault.

Racehorse
09-11-2017, 07:15 PM
because you don't criticize him. because you are a fucking trumper.


just a weak minded pussy that can't stand the thought of being wrong. grow a dick. pagano's teams are constantly blown out and you just turn your head and say not his fault.

I agree with everything you say about dam and Pagano, but inserting politics into it is juvenile, at best. Save that crap for the off-season and the smack forum.

omahacolt
09-11-2017, 07:36 PM
I agree with everything you say about dam and Pagano, but inserting politics into it is juvenile, at best. Save that crap for the off-season and the smack forum.

That is the best way to describe him.

Indiana V2
09-11-2017, 07:37 PM
You all hate Pagano so much that I did not mention his name once and you took my comments as a defense of him. Not many teams win when their QB throws two pick sixes. I'd venture a guess that the all-time winning percentage of those teams is less than 5%. No Luck was far and away the biggest problem the Colts had yesterday.

Who made the decision to start Tolzien?

omahacolt
09-11-2017, 07:38 PM
Who made the decision to start Tolzien?

Grigson obviously.


But you know dam will just say that it is all tolzein's fault.

ChoppedWood
09-11-2017, 07:53 PM
16 of those points were scored by the Rams defense, the Colts offense was outscored by the Rams defense. I'd say more than 90% of the problems the Colts had in this game were caused by the QB position. Andrew Luck solves those problems.

Straight away- fuckin' enuff with this ludicrous denial! That's just sad!

Racehorse
09-11-2017, 07:59 PM
Grigson obviously.


But you know dam will just say that it is all tolzein's fault.

He already did

Puck
09-11-2017, 08:34 PM
That is the best way to describe him.

Except he agrees with you ab0ut Trump so you two are alike in some ways

omahacolt
09-11-2017, 08:52 PM
Except he agrees with you ab0ut Trump so you two are alike in some ways

80% of the world agrees with me about trump. The rest are the klan

Dam8610
09-12-2017, 12:43 AM
because you don't criticize him. because you are a fucking trumper.


just a weak minded pussy that can't stand the thought of being wrong. grow a dick. pagano's teams are constantly blown out and you just turn your head and say not his fault.

Trumper mindset is more like yours, find a scapegoat and blame all the problems on the scapegoat, even if the scapegoat has little or nothing to do with the problem and the facts show there are bigger causes of the problem that will generate better results if resolved. For example, when the team's starting QB throws two pick sixes, there's not much a head coach is going to be able to do to change the outcome of the game. I've said several times that I don't care what happens to Pagano, but to blame a loss like this on him shows a clear bias.

Dam8610
09-12-2017, 12:57 AM
Who made the decision to start Tolzien?

Pagano, but who do you expect him to start in that scenario? It's not like he had a healthy Andrew Luck available and went with Tolzien. When all options are bad, you can't blame someone for choosing a bad option.

Butter
09-12-2017, 01:21 AM
I keep trying to respond to Dams posts, but I finally understood you just leave crazy alone.

Racehorse
09-12-2017, 07:11 AM
80% of the world agrees with me about trump. The rest are the klan

I am not the Klan and I disagree with you on Trump. You paint with a very broad brush, showing your political ignorance. News flash: Not all Rs are bad and not all Ds are good, and vice versa. To paint the picture that you do is as I said earlier, juvenile. Maybe you will grow up one day and realize how wrong you are now.

ChoppedWood
09-12-2017, 07:15 AM
Pagano, but who do you expect him to start in that scenario?


He should have refused to play the game out of respect for suck!

You are so blind to how atrocious this guy is it's unbelievable- he is the worst coach in the NFL right now by a magnitude of infinity.

natagu23
09-12-2017, 07:34 AM
He should have refused to play the game out of respect for suck!

You are so blind to how atrocious this guy is it's unbelievable- he is the worst coach in the NFL right now by a magnitude of infinity.

There is no question he's the worst coach in the league.

omahacolt
09-12-2017, 07:48 AM
I am not the Klan and I disagree with you on Trump. You paint with a very broad brush, showing your political ignorance. News flash: Not all Rs are bad and not all Ds are good, and vice versa. To paint the picture that you do is as I said earlier, juvenile. Maybe you will grow up one day and realize how wrong you are now.

It was a joke dude. I understand there are morons on both sides of the aisle. But trump is a piece of shit. That is just a fact

Dam8610
09-12-2017, 11:44 AM
He should have refused to play the game out of respect for suck!

You are so blind to how atrocious this guy is it's unbelievable- he is the worst coach in the NFL right now by a magnitude of infinity.

Very rational thought here. No hyperbole whatsoever.

DragonTails
09-12-2017, 11:53 AM
Pagano, but who do you expect him to start in that scenario? It's not like he had a healthy Andrew Luck available and went with Tolzien. When all options are bad, you can't blame someone for choosing a bad option.

He had 2 better options but they cut one of them. lol

I can blame someone for always choosing the worst option which is what he does.

To answer your question he should have start Morris OR Brissett. After standing there on the sidelines during the preseason and then deciding to start Tolzien, just proves the point that he doesn't know what he is doing.

Did you read the indystar articles? They point out about 10 items just from Sunday's game that also prove he doesn't know what he is doing.

ChoppedWood
09-12-2017, 12:03 PM
He had 2 better options but they cut one of them. lol

I can blame someone for always choosing the worst option which is what he does.

To answer your question he should have start Morris OR Brissett. After standing there on the sidelines during the preseason and then deciding to start Tolzien, just proves the point that he doesn't know what he is doing.

Did you read the indystar articles? They point out about 10 items just from Sunday's game that also prove he doesn't know what he is doing.

Can't see the print for the Pags pubes poking into his nostrils...

Dam8610
09-12-2017, 12:19 PM
He had 2 better options but they cut one of them. lol

I can blame someone for always choosing the worst option which is what he does.

To answer your question he should have start Morris OR Brissett. After standing there on the sidelines during the preseason and then deciding to start Tolzien, just proves the point that he doesn't know what he is doing.

Did you read the indystar articles? They point out about 10 items just from Sunday's game that also prove he doesn't know what he is doing.

Morris wasn't on the team, so that wasn't an option. Brisset was an option, but sending someone out to start at QB who has had very little time to learn your offense and its language doesn't really seem like that smart of a coaching decision, and had it not worked, the same people would've been here lambasting him for it. I don't care that much about Pagano, I've said numerous times dating back to last season that I don't care if they fire him. That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to all of your ridiculous, illogical, and poorly constructed thoughts and arguments on why everything is Pagano's fault. I'm surprised most of you haven't blamed Harvey and Irma on him yet.

GoBigBlue88
09-12-2017, 12:28 PM
Rick Venturi skewered Pagano this week. I mean, YMMV on Venturi -- he said the Colts should continue to play Hasselbeck when Luck returned from injury, when Hasselbeck wasn't even playing well -- but it was a pretty scorching critique of failing to come up with any semblance of a sensible offensive or defensive gameplan against LAR.

We've yet to see any evidence anyone has actually improved under Pagano. If anything, players continue to regress...

We do see a lot of TJ Green randomly starting at CB and Malik Hooker not really playing much, though.

ChoppedWood
09-12-2017, 12:32 PM
Morris wasn't on the team, so that wasn't an option. Brisset was an option, but sending someone out to start at QB who has had very little time to learn your offense and its language doesn't really seem like that smart of a coaching decision, and had it not worked, the same people would've been here lambasting him for it. I don't care that much about Pagano, I've said numerous times dating back to last season that I don't care if they fire him. That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to all of your ridiculous, illogical, and poorly constructed thoughts and arguments on why everything is Pagano's fault. I'm surprised most of you haven't blamed Harvey and Irma on him yet.

I'm pretty sure fat boy in NK is looking to nuke us due to Cuck. Even he realizes the inhumanity of Cuck remaining as coach and is looking to turn him and Jim into ash to prevent further pain and suffering for all of us.

rcubed
09-12-2017, 12:53 PM
Morris wasn't on the team, so that wasn't an option. Brisset was an option, but sending someone out to start at QB who has had very little time to learn your offense and its language doesn't really seem like that smart of a coaching decision, and had it not worked, the same people would've been here lambasting him for it. I don't care that much about Pagano, I've said numerous times dating back to last season that I don't care if they fire him. That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to all of your ridiculous, illogical, and poorly constructed thoughts and arguments on why everything is Pagano's fault. I'm surprised most of you haven't blamed Harvey and Irma on him yet.
It would be interesting to know whats going on behind the scenes. As in who made the decision to not play and cut morris. Seems like the fans preferred morris to tolzien, but for some reason the team didnt. Why is that and who made that decision between pags and ballard?

Clearly they dont think tolzien is the answer as they traded for brissett. I will be surprised if brissett isnt elevated to starter very quickly.

DragonTails
09-12-2017, 01:57 PM
Morris wasn't on the team

Exactly - he should have been. Everyone knew it.

That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to all of your ridiculous, illogical, and poorly constructed thoughts and arguments on why everything is Pagano's fault. I'm surprised most of you haven't blamed Harvey and Irma on him yet.

My point is not about blame - my point is he is is a terrible coach. There is more than enough evidence of that.

There is plenty of other blame as to why the roster is garbage.

Gimmick
09-12-2017, 04:40 PM
Morris wasn't the QB because he's not white. It's Indiana, after all.

Hoopsdoc
09-12-2017, 04:46 PM
Morris wasn't the QB because he's not white. It's Indiana, after all.

I'll take race baiting for 200, Alex.

omahacolt
09-12-2017, 05:08 PM
Morris wasn't the QB because he's not white. It's Indiana, after all.

don't be a dumbass

apballin
09-12-2017, 06:08 PM
Rick Venturi skewered Pagano this week. I mean, YMMV on Venturi -- he said the Colts should continue to play Hasselbeck when Luck returned from injury, when Hasselbeck wasn't even playing well -- but it was a pretty scorching critique of failing to come up with any semblance of a sensible offensive or defensive gameplan against LAR.

We've yet to see any evidence anyone has actually improved under Pagano. If anything, players continue to regress...

We do see a lot of TJ Green randomly starting at CB and Malik Hooker not really playing much, though.

Venturi was blasting Chuck and Ballard, he said we all could see Morris was the better QB and he doesn't know what they see/seen in Tolzien

QB should have been addressed

He didn't understand the defensive scheme, they dared Goff to beat them and left guys like Bostic 1 on 1 vs an athletic TE that should never happen

They should have never thrown towards Trumaine Johnson and after the pick 6 the game was in a bad situation

He was going off it was great. . .

Puck
09-12-2017, 06:28 PM
Morris wasn't on the team, so that wasn't an option. Brisset was an option, but sending someone out to start at QB who has had very little time to learn your offense and its language doesn't really seem like that smart of a coaching decision, and had it not worked, the same people would've been here lambasting him for it. I don't care that much about Pagano, I've said numerous times dating back to last season that I don't care if they fire him. That doesn't mean I have to subscribe to all of your ridiculous, illogical, and poorly constructed thoughts and arguments on why everything is Pagano's fault. I'm surprised most of you haven't blamed Harvey and Irma on him yet.

Fuck I hate agreeing with you but. Maybe the best post you ever made except for the last part

ChoppedWood
09-12-2017, 07:13 PM
Venturi was blasting Chuck and Ballard, he said we all could see Morris was the better QB and he doesn't know what they see/seen in Tolzien

QB should have been addressed

He didn't understand the defensive scheme, they dared Goff to beat them and left guys like Bostic 1 on 1 vs an athletic TE that should never happen

They should have never thrown towards Trumaine Johnson and after the pick 6 the game was in a bad situation

He was going off it was great. . .

Doyle the same this afternoon. He went a step further essentially stating there is no way this team couldn't have known how bad it would be with Tolzein and basically doesn't care - i.e. the fix is in. I believe it.

ChoppedWood
09-12-2017, 08:41 PM
Also, another thing he spent some time on- that being the status of Luck's head. In his view this team legitimately does not know where Andrew stands mentally right now.

I'm sorry, everyone can play it down, boo hoo it till the sun goes down. This is your damn star QB, the guy who until a month or so ago was the highest paid player in the league. A guy supposed to set a new standard of excellence.

The team doesn't even know where his mindset is? And there are still those that think things are hunky dory within this organization? Doyle's classification was a dumpster fire!

This is an unmitigated disaster!

Racehorse
09-12-2017, 09:03 PM
Also, another thing he spent some time on- that being the status of Luck's head. In his view this team legitimately does not know where Andrew stands mentally right now.

I'm sorry, everyone can play it down, boo hoo it till the sun goes down. This is your damn star QB, the guy who until a month or so ago was the highest paid player in the league. A guy supposed to set a new standard of excellence.

The team doesn't even know where his mindset is? And there are still those that think things are hunky dory within this organization? Doyle's classification was a dumpster fire!

This is an unmitigated disaster!
Reporters are like trolls. Don't take what they say seriously.

ChoppedWood
09-12-2017, 09:09 PM
Reporters are like trolls. Don't take what they say seriously.

C'mon man, there's more smoke here than all the C&C movies rolled into one.

I didn't see it but I guess Cuck's response when asked if Luck was practicing this week "he's out this week"... then was pressed, "but the question is whether he is practicing this week?"... "he's out this week". Why, why play these type of games - are the Cards gonna get a decided advantage by hearing Luck is or is not practicing this week? The Browns- they gonna change their game plan?

I can't stand the Cuck, but c'mon, there's a reason behind an answer that contrite.

This is all a fucking disgrace. This team is a fecal catastrophe right now.

GoBigBlue88
09-13-2017, 10:46 AM
Dam -- just answer me this one simple, honest question: where is the player development with any of Pagano's players?

We know he banged the table for D'Joun Smith and TJ Green. We know he's had his BAL and former U guys. We know regardless of who Grigson has supplied previously (and a lot of that supply has been problematic; Grigson deserved to be fired for it), he's had 6 years to develop players.

So I just ask: where is that development?

ChoppedWood
09-13-2017, 12:08 PM
Dam -- just answer me this one simple, honest question: where is the player development with any of Pagano's players?

We know he banged the table for D'Joun Smith and TJ Green. We know he's had his BAL and former U guys. We know regardless of who Grigson has supplied previously (and a lot of that supply has been problematic; Grigson deserved to be fired for it), he's had 6 years to develop players.

So I just ask: where is that development?

There isn't any! It's really that simple.

Dam8610
09-13-2017, 03:17 PM
So I just ask: where is that development?

Position by position:

QB: Luck has progressed very well and is one of the best QBs in the NFL when healthy.
RB: The Trent Richardson experiment was doomed to fail from the start. Apart from that, he hasn't had much to work with, but Boom Herron looked good in limited time and Marlon Mack looks very promising. He hasn't had much else to develop at the position, and no one was ever going to make Trent Richardson a quality NFL RB, it's very difficult to fix vision problems.
WR: Hilton has been one of the best receivers in the league, Moncreif has been a dangerous receiver when healthy, Rogers is a UDFA who has shown the ability to contribute in the NFL.
TE: He got production out of Fleener at a similar or better level as he has produced with Drew Brees. When healthy, Allen looked like a solid contributor, and Jack Doyle has come from UDFA status to become a solid contributor.
OL: Castanzo, Mewhort, and Kelly have been solid starters when healthy. No one else has been healthy and in the starting lineup consistently enough to develop.

DL: Henry Anderson has looked good when healthy, and is the highest draft pick Pagano has had to work with at the position. That said, he's made contributors out of street free agents like Lawrence Guy and T.Y. McGill and the one starting caliber free agent he's had that stayed healthy (Corey Redding) performed very well while here.
OLB: Bjoren Werner sucked and no one was going to turn him into a good player. Apart from him, Terrell Basham is the first Day 2 or higher pick Pagano has had to work with at the position. As for veterans, Robert Mathis went from a good player to an all-pro and near DPOY before age got the best of him. Erik Walden also had by far his best and most productive years here.
ILB: Jerrell Freeman became a solid starter under Pagano and was the team's best LB before he was inexplicably let go. He's the best talent Pagano has been provided at the ILB position, everything else has been washed up FAs, UDFAs, and a mid round pick who is too slow to play effectively in the NFL.
CB: Turned Vontae Davis into a Pro Bowler after Miami gave up on him. Other than that, he's had 1 day 2 pick to work with and several free agents who didn't pan out due mostly to injuries. Let's see what he does with .
S: Turned Mike Adams into a Pro Bowler. Hasn't been given much else to work with at the position.

It's likely not the best track record of development, but it's certainly not the worst you're going to find, either.

omahacolt
09-13-2017, 05:00 PM
Position by position:

QB: Luck has progressed very well and is one of the best QBs in the NFL when healthy.
RB: The Trent Richardson experiment was doomed to fail from the start. Apart from that, he hasn't had much to work with, but Boom Herron looked good in limited time and Marlon Mack looks very promising. He hasn't had much else to develop at the position, and no one was ever going to make Trent Richardson a quality NFL RB, it's very difficult to fix vision problems.
WR: Hilton has been one of the best receivers in the league, Moncreif has been a dangerous receiver when healthy, Rogers is a UDFA who has shown the ability to contribute in the NFL.
TE: He got production out of Fleener at a similar or better level as he has produced with Drew Brees. When healthy, Allen looked like a solid contributor, and Jack Doyle has come from UDFA status to become a solid contributor.
OL: Castanzo, Mewhort, and Kelly have been solid starters when healthy. No one else has been healthy and in the starting lineup consistently enough to develop.

DL: Henry Anderson has looked good when healthy, and is the highest draft pick Pagano has had to work with at the position. That said, he's made contributors out of street free agents like Lawrence Guy and T.Y. McGill and the one starting caliber free agent he's had that stayed healthy (Corey Redding) performed very well while here.
OLB: Bjoren Werner sucked and no one was going to turn him into a good player. Apart from him, Terrell Basham is the first Day 2 or higher pick Pagano has had to work with at the position. As for veterans, Robert Mathis went from a good player to an all-pro and near DPOY before age got the best of him. Erik Walden also had by far his best and most productive years here.
ILB: Jerrell Freeman became a solid starter under Pagano and was the team's best LB before he was inexplicably let go. He's the best talent Pagano has been provided at the ILB position, everything else has been washed up FAs, UDFAs, and a mid round pick who is too slow to play effectively in the NFL.
CB: Turned Vontae Davis into a Pro Bowler after Miami gave up on him. Other than that, he's had 1 day 2 pick to work with and several free agents who didn't pan out due mostly to injuries. Let's see what he does with .
S: Turned Mike Adams into a Pro Bowler. Hasn't been given much else to work with at the position.

It's likely not the best track record of development, but it's certainly not the worst you're going to find, either.

so basically, any player that sucked was not his fault but all credit goes to him for the players that did well

gotcha. answered it exactly how i thought you would. like a little bitch

Dam8610
09-13-2017, 06:19 PM
so basically, any player that sucked was not his fault but all credit goes to him for the players that did well

gotcha. answered it exactly how i thought you would. like a little bitch

So you think someone could've made productive players out of Trent Richardson and Bjoren Werner? Why didn't that team sign them and do it once they became available?

Coltsalr
09-13-2017, 07:30 PM
So you think someone could've made productive players out of Trent Richardson and Bjoren Werner? Why didn't that team sign them and do it once they became available?

That DID happen with Mario Addison...

Jerry Hughes...

Lawrence Guy...

Dam8610
09-13-2017, 07:43 PM
That DID happen with Mario Addison...

Jerry Hughes...

Lawrence Guy...

Blaming personnel decisions made by Grigson on Pagano isn't productive. Guy was a productive player here, but was inexplicably cut, just like Freeman was inexplicably allowed to walk. Hughes never got a shot under Pagano because he was behind Freeney and Mathis in 2012 and got traded in 2013. Mario Addison was even deeper on that depth chart.

omahacolt
09-13-2017, 09:45 PM
So you think someone could've made productive players out of Trent Richardson and Bjoren Werner? Why didn't that team sign them and do it once they became available?

It is very convenient that such high draft picks were so easily dismissed by the great dam as complete trash.

omahacolt
09-13-2017, 09:47 PM
Blaming personnel decisions made by Grigson on Pagano isn't productive. Guy was a productive player here, but was inexplicably cut, just like Freeman was inexplicably allowed to walk. Hughes never got a shot under Pagano because he was behind Freeney and Mathis in 2012 and got traded in 2013. Mario Addison was even deeper on that depth chart.

Pagano can't change the depth chart? Fucking poor guy had his hands tied didn't he

Dam8610
09-13-2017, 11:25 PM
It is very convenient that such high draft picks were so easily dismissed by the great dam as complete trash.

Simple answer: Grigson sucked at drafting, and so did/do the Browns. Richardson wasn't worth trading a 1 for, and Werner's ceiling was never elite, and that was what I said at the time in each case. High draft pick + bad GM = No talent.

GoBigBlue88
09-14-2017, 07:45 AM
So you think someone could've made productive players out of Trent Richardson and Bjoren Werner? Why didn't that team sign them and do it once they became available?

I think it's more ... why does Pagano get credit for Henry Anderson (who is way overrated here, FWIW) but Grigson gets blamed for, say, Montori Hughes, and that's not Pagano's fault? What is the logic to that?

I mean, I could argue players on your list like Mewhort and Allen actually REGRESSED under Pagano.

And there are a ton of notable absences, including D'Joun Smith & TJ Green, who Pagano personally advocated for.

YDFL Commish
09-14-2017, 08:56 AM
I think it's more ... why does Pagano get credit for Henry Anderson (who is way overrated here, FWIW) but Grigson gets blamed for, say, Montori Hughes, and that's not Pagano's fault? What is the logic to that?

I mean, I could argue players on your list like Mewhort and Allen actually REGRESSED under Pagano.

And there are a ton of notable absences, including D'Joun Smith & TJ Green, who Pagano personally advocated for.

Khalid Holmes, who Pags personally worked out.

rcubed
09-14-2017, 12:11 PM
To me when develop is used that means the coach takes someone and makes them better, or help reach their potential that they would have done otherwise.

The one that really comes to mind in terms of pagano "developing" would be vontae. I didnt really follow his career in miami, but wasnt he kind of a mess there? He came here, got his shit together and became a really good CB. Pags was supposed to be a good DB coach so I could see that.

Could make a case for McGill and Freeman... other than that?

(I am not including Doyle as I doubt pagano had any influence in his success)

Dam8610
09-14-2017, 02:58 PM
To me when develop is used that means the coach takes someone and makes them better, or help reach their potential that they would have done otherwise.

The one that really comes to mind in terms of pagano "developing" would be vontae. I didnt really follow his career in miami, but wasnt he kind of a mess there? He came here, got his shit together and became a really good CB. Pags was supposed to be a good DB coach so I could see that.

Could make a case for McGill and Freeman... other than that?

(I am not including Doyle as I doubt pagano had any influence in his success)

This is all opinion, though. No one really knows how much of an impact Pagano did or didn't have on any player's development. But the fact remains that a good number of players have improved under Pagano, enough that it seems plausible that the ones who didn't either had bad circumstances like injuries, or just didn't have the talent to make it work at the NFL level, and this theory becomes even more plausible when you consider that Ryan Grigson was the GM and was awful at talent acquisition throughout his tenure here.

Dam8610
09-14-2017, 03:29 PM
I think it's more ... why does Pagano get credit for Henry Anderson (who is way overrated here, FWIW) but Grigson gets blamed for, say, Montori Hughes, and that's not Pagano's fault? What is the logic to that?

The answer to why Grigson catches the blame for bad draft picks is that these guys don't go on to other teams and become productive players. If that was happening consistently (And I don't consider 3 players over 5 seasons "consistently", the fact that Lawrence Guy was being used by Pagano as a rotational backup here when Grigson cut him notwithstanding), then there's a strong argument for bad player development. But when they don't produce here, go somewhere else and don't produce, and lather, rinse, repeat until they're out of the league, that's not Pagano failing to develop a player any more than it is any other team failing to develop that player. Scouting is not an exact science, and the absolute best in the business at it have success rates in the 40-50% range. Grigson's success rate was more like 25%, which is why he's no longer here.

I mean, I could argue players on your list like Mewhort and Allen actually REGRESSED under Pagano.

Not that I agree with your assessment, but assuming I did, injuries would be the biggest factor in both cases. I think the strength and conditioning group that this team was using had done an awful job for a long time, and I was happy when I heard the Colts switched, but they haven't seemed to produce much better results to date.

And there are a ton of notable absences, including D'Joun Smith & TJ Green, who Pagano personally advocated for.

I left Smith off because, again, injuries were the biggest factor. It's not really possible to develop an injured player. As for Green, he's a second year player, and he was always going to be a project. Early returns don't look promising, but it's too early to completely write him off.

Racehorse
09-15-2017, 07:14 AM
Two words on player development where it is obvious Pags is inept: Jerry Hughes

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 10:42 AM
Two words on player development where it is obvious Pags is inept: Jerry Hughes

Caldwell and his staff (nearly the identical staff that developed Freeney and Mathis) got nothing out of him in 2 years, he was still behind Freeney and Mathis during the one year Pagano had him, and Grigson traded him for a bad ILB before he had a chance the next year to compete for a starting spot. How you see this as a failure of player development on Pagano's part is beyond me. Further, even if that were the case, if you can only find one example of this in five years, your argument that he's bad at player development doesn't hold water.

Coltsalr
09-15-2017, 11:02 AM
Tom Zbikowski, who was a Pagano guy, he did real well for us. :rolleyes:

smitty46953
09-15-2017, 11:37 AM
Do all you guys argue with Stop signs? :cool:

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 12:25 PM
Tom Zbikowski, who was a Pagano guy, he did real well for us. :rolleyes:

Anyone who thought he was a starter was fooling themselves, he was terrible from the moment he came into the league.

Coltsalr
09-15-2017, 01:34 PM
Anyone who thought he was a starter was fooling themselves, he was terrible from the moment he came into the league.

And yet your hero advocated for his acquisition in Indy. Go figure.

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 03:28 PM
And yet your hero advocated for his acquisition in Indy. Go figure.

1) Pagano is not the GM, his job is not talent acquisition.

2) The 2012 Colts were rebuilding, they needed a body to take reps at safety. Zbikowski was essentially a warm body, nothing more.

3) No one in the Colts organization ever thought of Zbikowski as anything more than a placeholder.

You are really reaching for evidence to support your argument and still coming up short.

Coltsalr
09-15-2017, 04:54 PM
1) Pagano is not the GM, his job is not talent acquisition.

2) The 2012 Colts were rebuilding, they needed a body to take reps at safety. Zbikowski was essentially a warm body, nothing more.

3) No one in the Colts organization ever thought of Zbikowski as anything more than a placeholder.

You are really reaching for evidence to support your argument and still coming up short.

And yet, he advocated and got his guy. And the guy sucked. Badly. Worse than replacement level player would have.

That's the point. Pagano does nothing in particular well.

omahacolt
09-15-2017, 05:01 PM
And yet, he advocated and got his guy. And the guy sucked. Badly. Worse than replacement level player would have.

That's the point. Pagano does nothing in particular well.

that isn't true


he gives dam boners very well.

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 05:28 PM
And yet, he advocated and got his guy. And the guy sucked. Badly. Worse than replacement level player would have.

That's the point. Pagano does nothing in particular well.

This is a reach at best.

To sum up your argument: "A bad player, who everyone knew was bad going in, played badly and was released, so that means Pagano is bad at things."

I just don't follow the logic.

omahacolt
09-15-2017, 06:10 PM
This is a reach at best.

To sum up your argument: "A bad player, who everyone knew was bad going in, played badly and was released, so that means Pagano is bad at things."

I just don't follow the logic.

pagano wanted to bring in a known bad player.

how do you not get this?

Butter
09-15-2017, 07:12 PM
pagano wanted to bring in a known bad player.

how do you not get this?

Does not fit his narrative.

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 07:48 PM
pagano wanted to bring in a known bad player.

how do you not get this?

It was 2012, they just cut half the roster and had about half the cap in penalties (that last part may be exaggerated slightly, but a good chunk of that team's cap figure was penalties). They weren't expecting to compete and they needed someone to play safety. He was a body that they likely were looking to replace immediately. If you expect every single player the team signs or drafts to be successful, you're going to be disappointed.

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 07:50 PM
Does not fit his narrative.

What narrative? That looking at the facts and circumstances behind an outcome is important? Because that's all I've been doing here.

Racehorse
09-15-2017, 08:19 PM
Do all you guys argue with Stop signs? :cool:

The stop sign puts up a better argument.

omahacolt
09-15-2017, 09:44 PM
It was 2012, they just cut half the roster and had about half the cap in penalties (that last part may be exaggerated slightly, but a good chunk of that team's cap figure was penalties). They weren't expecting to compete and they needed someone to play safety. He was a body that they likely were looking to replace immediately. If you expect every single player the team signs or drafts to be successful, you're going to be disappointed.

Hahaha you are saying this. About guys to defend pagano. But rip grigson in the same breath.

Holy shit two face

apballin
09-15-2017, 09:56 PM
It was 2012, they just cut half the roster and had about half the cap in penalties (that last part may be exaggerated slightly, but a good chunk of that team's cap figure was penalties). They weren't expecting to compete and they needed someone to play safety. He was a body that they likely were looking to replace immediately. If you expect every single player the team signs or drafts to be successful, you're going to be disappointed.

Exactly this a serviceable guy that wouldn't cost much

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 10:25 PM
Hahaha you are saying this. About guys to defend pagano. But rip grigson in the same breath.

Holy shit two face

Your criticism lacks merit. Pagano isn't in talent acquisition, so the only thing we could really be talking about with Zbikowski in relation to Pagano is his development, or lack thereof. That said, they have a saying in the analytical world for this sort of thing: garbage in, garbage out.

Dewey 5
09-15-2017, 10:43 PM
Your criticism lacks merit. Pagano isn't in talent acquisition, so the only thing we could really be talking about with Zbikowski in relation to Pagano is his development, or lack thereof. That said, they have a saying in the analytical world for this sort of thing: garbage in, garbage out.

Zbikowski played for Baltimore when Pagano was there. Pagano brought him to Indy because he wanted a guy that was familiar with his type of system. Pagano wasn't able to see that Zib sucked even though he saw him day & day out. Zbikowski was all Pagano. It's pretty simple.

omahacolt
09-15-2017, 11:16 PM
Zbikowski played for Baltimore when Pagano was there. Pagano brought him to Indy because he wanted a guy that was familiar with his type of system. Pagano wasn't able to see that Zib sucked even though he saw him day & day out. Zbikowski was all Pagano. It's pretty simple.

Not to dam. This is black and white when it suits his purpose.

Dam8610
09-15-2017, 11:36 PM
Why are you all so obsessed with Zbikowski? He was a bad player who they knew was bad and sought to replace as soon as possible. He was also necessary because they needed a body.

FatDT
09-16-2017, 09:41 AM
Yeah guys there were literally no other safeties available. Zbikowski, with his bad play and admitted alcoholism, was the only guy they could possibly get.

IndyNorm
09-16-2017, 09:58 AM
You all hate Pagano so much that I did not mention his name once and you took my comments as a defense of him. Not many teams win when their QB throws two pick sixes. I'd venture a guess that the all-time winning percentage of those teams is less than 5%. No Luck was far and away the biggest problem the Colts had yesterday.

Obviously not having Luck is by far the current biggest issue on the team; however, you have conveniently not commented on Clappy's obvious incompetent week 1 decisions and moments such as:

-Starting TJ Green at CB (I'm sure you'll still try to blame this on Grigson)
-Running a hurry up play to prevent a replay from occurring which would have awarded us a TD (I'm sure you'll say something like all head coaches make really stupid decisions and bring up Belicheat's going for it on 4th down in '09 again).
-Not even knowing the fucking team we were playing (really looking fwd to reading what you have to say about this one.)

HoosierinFL
09-16-2017, 10:09 AM
Obviously not having Luck is by far the current biggest issue on the team; however, you have conveniently not commented on Clappy's obvious incompetent week 1 decisions and moments such as:

-Starting TJ Green at CB (I'm sure you'll still try to blame this on Grigson)
-Running a hurry up play to prevent a replay from occurring which would have awarded us a TD (I'm sure you'll say something like all head coaches make really stupid decisions and bring up Belicheat's going for it on 4th down in '09 again).
-Not even knowing the fucking team we were playing (really looking fwd to reading what you have to say about this one.)

I don't think he was trying to prevent the reply, he was trying to catch the Rams D unprepared and score an easy TD on them. Still it was a dumb decision, just throw the red flag and get the TD that way.

Dam8610
09-16-2017, 10:31 AM
Yeah guys there were literally no other safeties available. Zbikowski, with his bad play and admitted alcoholism, was the only guy they could possibly get.

Not at all what I said. Zbikowski was the scrap heap FA Grigson chose. They needed a cheap scrap heap FA. If it wasn't Zbikowski, it would've been a safety of similar quality.

YDFL Commish
09-16-2017, 10:32 AM
Not at all what I said. Zbikowski was the scrap heap FA Grigson chose. They needed a cheap scrap heap FA. If it wasn't Zbikowski, it would've been a safety of similar quality.

Grigson chose on Pagano's recommendation.

Coltsalr
09-16-2017, 10:52 AM
Grigson chose on Pagano's recommendation.

What are you not getting?

On the player acquisition front, Pagano never had anything to do with it, even when he clearly advocated for the player, that doesn't count for some reason.

On the coaching front, when coaching decisions were botched, that was clearly because Grigson was shouting the fake punt formation into Pagano's headset. Hell, this past week on the Marlon Mack no-challenge, Dam probably thinks that Grigson hacked into the headset frequencies and was shouting "NO CHALLENGE" at Pagano.

It all makes sense if you don't think about it.

IndyNorm
09-16-2017, 10:56 AM
What are you not getting?

On the player acquisition front, Pagano never had anything to do with it, even when he clearly advocated for the player, that doesn't count for some reason.

On the coaching front, when coaching decisions were botched, that was clearly because Grigson was shouting the fake punt formation into Pagano's headset. Hell, this past week on the Marlon Mack no-challenge, Dam probably thinks that Grigson hacked into the headset frequencies and was shouting "NO CHALLENGE" at Pagano.

It all makes sense if you don't think about it.

On top of that Grigson has and still does prevent Clappy and his staff from implementing any sort of game plan whatsoever, so we can showcase Andrew Luck's comeback ability even against terrible teams like the Jags.

Racehorse
09-16-2017, 11:42 AM
On top of that Grigson has and still does prevent Clappy and his staff from implementing any sort of game plan whatsoever, so we can showcase Andrew Luck's comeback ability even against terrible teams like the Jags.

Dam sees Grigson as trash, but not Pagano. The problem is, both are trash, but only one piece of trash is still ruining our team. Time to take out the last bit of trash!

Puck
10-01-2017, 11:58 PM
Grigson really fucked up the halftime adjustments

I can't believe a Grigson didn't have the team ready for the Seahawks in the second half... I can't believe Grigson didn't see it coming.

We need to fire Grigson

Dam8610
10-02-2017, 12:45 AM
Grigson really fucked up the halftime adjustments

I can't believe a Grigson didn't have the team ready for the Seahawks in the second half... I can't believe Grigson didn't see it coming.

We need to fire Grigson

No team that gives up two return TDs is going to win. QB play has cost this team dearly in all 3 of its losses. Can't have Luck back soon enough.

Indiana V2
10-02-2017, 07:12 AM
No team that gives up two return TDs is going to win. QB play has cost this team dearly in all 3 of its losses. Can't have Luck back soon enough.

I feel sorry for you if you truly think that the Colts problem is just the QB play.

Dam8610
10-02-2017, 12:17 PM
I feel sorry for you if you truly think that the Colts problem is just the QB play.

Of course it's not. The injury to Kelly has the OL playing poorly and we all knew going into the season that this team lacked pass rushers and quality ILBs. So the defense is average or below average, and cannot survive the mistakes of bad QB play (Tolzien) or developing QB play (Brissett). That doesn't mean I think the Colts would be 4-0 with Luck, but I think they'd be better than 1-3.

omahacolt
10-02-2017, 05:07 PM
Of course it's not. The injury to Kelly has the OL playing poorly and we all knew going into the season that this team lacked pass rushers and quality ILBs. So the defense is average or below average, and cannot survive the mistakes of bad QB play (Tolzien) or developing QB play (Brissett). That doesn't mean I think the Colts would be 4-0 with Luck, but I think they'd be better than 1-3.

and they would be immensely better without pagano.

Coltsalr
10-02-2017, 08:26 PM
Of course it's not. The injury to Kelly has the OL playing poorly and we all knew going into the season that this team lacked pass rushers and quality ILBs. So the defense is average or below average, and cannot survive the mistakes of bad QB play (Tolzien) or developing QB play (Brissett). That doesn't mean I think the Colts would be 4-0 with Luck, but I think they'd be better than 1-3.

What are your thoughts on Ballard?

Seriously.

Dam8610
10-03-2017, 09:07 AM
What are your thoughts on Ballard?

Seriously.

He inherited a bad roster with too many holes to fill in one off-season. Injuries to key players have exacerbated those problems.

rcubed
10-03-2017, 11:47 AM
He inherited a bad roster and worse coach with too many holes to fill in one off-season. Injuries to key players have exacerbated those problems.

fixed

GoBigBlue88
10-03-2017, 12:04 PM
He inherited a bad roster with too many holes to fill in one off-season. Injuries to key players have exacerbated those problems.

Why is that roster good enough to win the first half of 3/4ths of the games they've played?

Luck4Reich
10-03-2017, 12:45 PM
Why is that roster good enough to win the first half of 3/4ths of the games they've played?

Great question.... I’m sure his answer blames everyone on the planet not named Pagano.

Coltsalr
10-03-2017, 12:55 PM
Great question.... I’m sure his answer blames everyone on the planet not named Pagano.

To be fair, the cotton candy guy at LOS not being in mid season form by now really has a ripple effect on the whole team.

Pez
10-03-2017, 02:34 PM
Why is that roster good enough to win the first half of 3/4ths of the games they've played?

Lets see, half of 3/4ths... carry the two... because we are only about 3/8th's as good as everyone else we've played?

omahacolt
10-03-2017, 04:33 PM
To be fair, the cotton candy guy at LOS not being in mid season form by now really has a ripple effect on the whole team.

That guy fucking sucks

Dam8610
10-04-2017, 12:20 PM
Why is that roster good enough to win the first half of 3/4ths of the games they've played?

Because sometimes it takes more than a quarter to expose the parts of the roster that need improvement, and there is some talent on the roster that can perform well. Also for some inexplicable reason, the whole league doesn't know that speed backs with receiving ability destroy the Colts defense, otherwise Seattle would've played McKissic from the first snap of the game.

GoBigBlue88
10-05-2017, 12:40 PM
Because sometimes it takes more than a quarter to expose the parts of the roster that need improvement, and there is some talent on the roster that can perform well. Also for some inexplicable reason, the whole league doesn't know that speed backs with receiving ability destroy the Colts defense, otherwise Seattle would've played McKissic from the first snap of the game.

So it's all personnel, and zero coaching? C'mon man.

I know you don't care about what people think of you on here -- nor should you, of course, caring about what people think about you online is dumb. But the reason people think you're absurd is because you won't negotiate any blame ratio whatsoever.

Kray007
10-05-2017, 06:15 PM
dam will come up with some excuse. but truthfully there is none. chuck pagano is the worst colts coach i have ever seen. maybe the worst coach i have ever seen


he is truthfully that bad

I've seen plenty of coaches who were worse, some of whom coached the Colts...see Mike McCormick, Frank Kush and Rod Dowhower.

Dam8610
10-05-2017, 06:59 PM
So it's all personnel, and zero coaching? C'mon man.

I know you don't care about what people think of you on here -- nor should you, of course, caring about what people think about you online is dumb. But the reason people think you're absurd is because you won't negotiate any blame ratio whatsoever.

When I stop seeing speed backs run untouched into the end zone, and Antonio Morrison in coverage because the Colts apparently don't have a better second ILB to play on passing downs, I'll be willing to entertain the coaching staff's responsibility for defensive struggles.

omahacolt
10-05-2017, 09:44 PM
When I stop seeing speed backs run untouched into the end zone, and Antonio Morrison in coverage because the Colts apparently don't have a better second ILB to play on passing downs, I'll be willing to entertain the coaching staff's responsibility for defensive struggles.

Pagano plays Morrison. He doesn't have to play

Dam8610
10-05-2017, 09:52 PM
Pagano plays Morrison. He doesn't have to play

So you think he's intentionally playing bad players? What possible motive would he have to do that?

ChoppedWood
10-05-2017, 10:19 PM
So you think he's intentionally playing bad players? What possible motive would he have to do that?

Scott Tolzein

Coltsalr
10-05-2017, 10:28 PM
So you think he's intentionally playing bad players? What possible motive would he have to do that?

Intentionally? No. He’s too incompetent to effectively evaluate talent.

It’s the same reason he started Tolzien and had TJ Green playing at CB in the opener.

omahacolt
10-05-2017, 10:38 PM
So you think he's intentionally playing bad players? What possible motive would he have to do that?

So now who is making him play guys? Ballard is making him play guys grigson drafted? Is that your excuse now?

YDFL Commish
10-05-2017, 10:46 PM
Intentionally? No. He’s too incompetent to effectively evaluate talent.

It’s the same reason he started Tolzien and had TJ Green playing at CB in the opener.

How many times can I possibly thank this post?

FatDT
10-06-2017, 09:42 AM
Intentionally? No. He’s too incompetent to effectively evaluate talent.

It’s the same reason he started Tolzien and had TJ Green playing at CB in the opener.

It's the same reason we had Satele at center for so long. It's the same reason we had Landry playing for too long, then somehow "earning" his starting job again after getting suspended. This is nothing new. Pagano and his staff have a long history of playing the wrong players.

It's like now with Vagovich.

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 09:55 AM
Scott Tolzein

As I said at the time, Brissett hadn't been here even a full week, and had he gone out and performed poorly, every single one of you would've criticized him for throwing him out there too quickly with too little understanding of the offense. As for Morris, look at the comments, Ballard clearly made that decision. Fortunately, he was smart enough to realize he needed someone better than Tolzien and went out and got Brissett.

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 10:09 AM
Intentionally? No. He’s too incompetent to effectively evaluate talent.

It’s the same reason he started Tolzien and had TJ Green playing at CB in the opener.

If that were the case, you'd see a bunch of former Colts becoming starters and major contributors around the league. That doesn't happen because there's not some treasure trove of talent just sitting on the bench, waiting for their opportunity. Grigson left this roster in terrible shape, and Ballard was never going to be able to completely rebuild it in one offseason. If you have no good options (like at ILB or QB in week 1), you have to play the best bad option. That doesn't mean it isn't a bad option, or that Pagano thinks it's a good option.

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 10:11 AM
So now who is making him play guys? Ballard is making him play guys grigson drafted? Is that your excuse now?

No better option on the roster. This team's ILB corps is awful.

Puck
10-06-2017, 01:07 PM
If that were the case, you'd see a bunch of former Colts becoming starters and major contributors around the league. That doesn't happen because there's not some treasure trove of talent just sitting on the bench, waiting for their opportunity. Grigson left this roster in terrible shape, and Ballard was never going to be able to completely rebuild it in one offseason. If you have no good options (like at ILB or QB in week 1), you have to play the best bad option. That doesn't mean it isn't a bad option, or that Pagano thinks it's a good option.

Who is the starting center for the cardinals over the past few years?

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 03:04 PM
Who is the starting center for the cardinals over the past few years?

Grigson made a lot of stupid decisions, trading Shipley was one, what's your point?

omahacolt
10-06-2017, 04:20 PM
Who is the starting center for the cardinals over the past few years?

never pagano, puck

pagano has never made a mistake according to this idiot

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 04:39 PM
never pagano, puck

pagano has never made a mistake according to this idiot

Shipley was traded to the Ravens in the 2013 offseason, that's hardly something Pagano did.

omahacolt
10-06-2017, 05:00 PM
Shipley was traded to the Ravens in the 2013 offseason, that's hardly something Pagano did.

he was also brought back wasn't he? although i am not talking specifically about shipley

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 05:16 PM
he was also brought back wasn't he? although i am not talking specifically about shipley

What? Shipley never came back here after 2012. He's actually followed Arians around the league for most of his career. But if you're not talking about Shipley, what are you talking about?

Coltsalr
10-06-2017, 05:35 PM
If that were the case, you'd see a bunch of former Colts becoming starters and major contributors around the league. That doesn't happen because there's not some treasure trove of talent just sitting on the bench, waiting for their opportunity. Grigson left this roster in terrible shape, and Ballard was never going to be able to completely rebuild it in one offseason. If you have no good options (like at ILB or QB in week 1), you have to play the best bad option. That doesn't mean it isn't a bad option, or that Pagano thinks it's a good option.

TJ Green is nobody’s best option, bad or otherwise.

Coltsalr
10-06-2017, 05:37 PM
What? Shipley never came back here after 2012. He's actually followed Arians around the league for most of his career. But if you're not talking about Shipley, what are you talking about?

You are incorrect, Shipley came back to the Colts in 2014

On August 31, 2014, the Indianapolis Colts claimed Shipley off of waivers after starting center Khaled Holmes suffered an injury during the first snap of the preseason.[24]


He was immediately inserted into a competition for the starting center position against rookie Jonotthan Harrison. Shipley was named the starting center for the season opener against the Denver Broncos. After starting and playing well in the first four games, he was surprisingly demoted to the backup position behind undrafted rookie Jonotthan Harrison. He finished the 2014 season playing in 15 games, started five, and was ranked as the 13th highest graded center in the NFL by Pro Football Focus.[20][25]


That certainly sounds like a coaching gaffe.

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 05:45 PM
You are incorrect, Shipley came back to the Colts in 2014

You're right, my bad, missed it when I looked it up earlier.

That certainly sounds like a coaching gaffe.

What? It's a coaching gaffe to be told who to play and then have the GM not retain a player?

omahacolt
10-06-2017, 06:56 PM
What? Shipley never came back here after 2012. He's actually followed Arians around the league for most of his career. But if you're not talking about Shipley, what are you talking about?

wrong as usual.

omahacolt
10-06-2017, 06:58 PM
What? It's a coaching gaffe to be told who to play and then have the GM not retain a player?

no fucker

i was right and you were wrong. you aren't man enough to say that are you.

apballin
10-06-2017, 07:47 PM
pagano gets all the blame, but that was a hell of a 1st half

2 good challenges by Pagano, team looked ready to play even with a backups backup center in the loudest stadium. 2nd half just went to shit after the fumble returned for 6, then Hookers INT and they settle for 3- Ballgame

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 09:01 PM
no fucker

i was right and you were wrong. you aren't man enough to say that are you.

Clearly you have reading comprehension problems as well as a selective memory. 2014 was the time period that Grigson was dictating who started. Shipley was retained through that season, then allowed to hit free agency. 0% of what happened with Shipley was a Pagano decision.

omahacolt
10-06-2017, 09:49 PM
What? Shipley never came back here after 2012. He's actually followed Arians around the league for most of his career. But if you're not talking about Shipley, what are you talking about?

This is what I am talking about idiot.

Dam8610
10-06-2017, 09:50 PM
This is what I am talking about idiot.

Read my response to Coltsalr, idiot.

omahacolt
10-06-2017, 09:50 PM
Clearly you have reading comprehension problems as well as a selective memory. 2014 was the time period that Grigson was dictating who started. Shipley was retained through that season, then allowed to hit free agency. 0% of what happened with Shipley was a Pagano decision.

There was no time period grigson dictated who started. Just pagano leaking false info to the press

Puck
10-06-2017, 11:47 PM
Grigson made a lot of stupid decisions, trading Shipley was one, what's your point?


Dam I don't remeber you being this dumb before Pagano got here. He's even fucked you up

Dam8610
10-07-2017, 02:51 AM
There was no time period grigson dictated who started. Just pagano leaking false info to the press

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Viewpoints that disagree on points this fundamental can't be reconciled.

IndyNorm
10-07-2017, 06:49 AM
dam i don't remeber you being this dumb before pagano got here. He's even fucked you up

lmao!!!

apballin
10-07-2017, 05:16 PM
Dam I don't remeber you being this dumb before Pagano got here. He's even fucked you up

Pagano gets the blame for everything WTF, he has surpassed Tim Jennings by far

IndyNorm
10-08-2017, 09:34 AM
Pagano gets the blame for everything WTF, he has surpassed Tim Jennings by far

Jennings wasn't responsible for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGNr3Yef-2A

Or this:

http://thebiglead.com/2017/09/10/chuck-pagano-cost-the-colts-four-points-by-not-challenging-obvious-marlon-mack-td/

omahacolt
10-08-2017, 09:39 AM
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Viewpoints that disagree on points this fundamental can't be reconciled.

you still never manned up and admitted you were wrong. really shows what a bitch you are since you want to put my quote as your sig.

smitty46953
10-08-2017, 11:28 AM
you still never manned up and admitted you were wrong. really shows what a bitch you are since you want to put my quote as your sig.

I thought same thing, but then again has never admitted was wrong about anything ... You expect that to change? :cool:

apballin
10-08-2017, 11:36 AM
I thought same thing, but then again has never admitted was wrong about anything ... You expect that to change? :cool:

Even when I'm wrong I coulda been right

omahacolt
10-08-2017, 11:41 AM
I thought same thing, but then again has never admitted was wrong about anything ... You expect that to change? :cool:

No I don't.

Just cements the type of person he is.

GoBigBlue88
10-08-2017, 04:54 PM
Colts just won one of their most poorly-coaches games in recent memory.

Colts And Orioles
10-08-2017, 04:54 PM
o


(vs. 49ers, 10/08)


With more than a minute left to play in regulation and the Colts clinging to a 23-16 lead, Pagano declined a 10-second run-off on a 49ers penalty to save time for the Colts in the event that the 49ers scored the game-tying touchdown ...... but then 2 plays later, he failed to follow that up by opting NOT to call a timeout when the 49ers were tackled in bounds, which allowed them to bleed the clock before calling their own time out with one second left on the play clock.

Subsequently, the Colts had no time left to try to get into field goal range after the 49ers did indeed tie the game with a touchdown pass on 4th down on the very next play.


o

Spike
10-08-2017, 04:59 PM
o


(vs. 49ers, 10/08)


With more than a minute left to play in regulation and the Colts clinging to a 23-16 lead, Pagano declined a 10-second run-off on a 49ers penalty to save time for the Colts in the event that the 49ers scored the game-tying touchdown ...... but then 2 plays later, he failed to follow that up by opting NOT to call a timeout when the 49ers were tackled in bounds, which allowed them to bleed the clock before calling their own time out with one second left on the play clock.

Subsequently, the Colts had no time left to try to get into field goal range after the 49ers did indeed tie the game with a touchdown pass on 4th down on the very next play.


o

That was so mind boggling to me. Of course you call a timeout to save time for your offense. The problem is that Pagano is a moron and really doesn't understand the game of football.

Spike
10-08-2017, 05:01 PM
Colts just won one of their most poorly-coaches games in recent memory.

Pretty much every game the Colts have played under Pagano has been poorly coached.

Hoopsdoc
10-08-2017, 05:06 PM
Colts just won one of their most poorly-coaches games in recent memory.

It's almost like he's trolling us at this point.

GoBigBlue88
10-08-2017, 05:11 PM
Pagano fuck-ups today:

1. A special teams play that almost beat the infamous Fake Punt.

2. Time management at end of game.

3. Pulling Marlon Mack after his second TD and not reintroducing him until OT (he won the game, btw).

4. More bullshit conservative defense with a lead. It's clearly coached.

5. Unnecessarily complex trick plays for an offense that's lucky to not put Vujnovich's ass in a running back's face right off the snap.


I'm not going to include icing the kicker, because I really don't care one way or the other about it. But some might argue that was a fuck-up as well.

Dam8610
10-08-2017, 05:55 PM
you still never manned up and admitted you were wrong. really shows what a bitch you are since you want to put my quote as your sig.

You're a dumbshit. I'm not saying the same thing over and over again to fuel your ego, and your inability to read is not my problem.

omahacolt
10-08-2017, 06:23 PM
You're a dumbshit. I'm not saying the same thing over and over again to fuel your ego, and your inability to read is not my problem.

About Shipley did you admit to me you were wrong in a post? Admit it. Be a fucking man for once in your life.

YDFL Commish
10-08-2017, 06:37 PM
o


(vs. 49ers, 10/08)


With more than a minute left to play in regulation and the Colts clinging to a 23-16 lead, Pagano declined a 10-second run-off on a 49ers penalty to save time for the Colts in the event that the 49ers scored the game-tying touchdown ...... but then 2 plays later, he failed to follow that up by opting NOT to call a timeout when the 49ers were tackled in bounds, which allowed them to bleed the clock before calling their own time out with one second left on the play clock.

Subsequently, the Colts had no time left to try to get into field goal range after the 49ers did indeed tie the game with a touchdown pass on 4th down on the very next play.


o

As far as I'm concerned you can't repeat this post often enough.

Irsay should've let Manning run the team for a day. Manning would've fired Pagano before he could get off the field.

Kray007
10-12-2017, 11:17 AM
o


(vs. 49ers, 10/08)


With more than a minute left to play in regulation and the Colts clinging to a 23-16 lead, Pagano declined a 10-second run-off on a 49ers penalty to save time for the Colts in the event that the 49ers scored the game-tying touchdown ...... but then 2 plays later, he failed to follow that up by opting NOT to call a timeout when the 49ers were tackled in bounds, which allowed them to bleed the clock before calling their own time out with one second left on the play clock.

Subsequently, the Colts had no time left to try to get into field goal range after the 49ers did indeed tie the game with a touchdown pass on 4th down on the very next play.


o

My first guess is that, somewhere in the four or five minutes that elapsed between decision one and decision two, Chuck simply decided that an Offense led by Brissett didn't have a realistic shot at driving into FG range in less than 25 or 30 seconds. My second guess is that he didn't want to take a chance that Brissett would make a mistake and toss an interception that would hand the game to the 49'ers. My last guess is that the decision might have been different had Andrew Luck been taking snaps.

GoBigBlue88
10-16-2017, 11:34 PM
If Dam doesn't have issues with Pagano after that game, I vote we just ban him from this board because he's a relative.

omahacolt
10-16-2017, 11:39 PM
If Dam doesn't have issues with Pagano after that game, I vote we just ban him from this board because he's a relative.

I think this has to come to a vote

Coltsalr
10-16-2017, 11:39 PM
If Dam doesn't have issues with Pagano after that game, I vote we just ban him from this board because he's a relative.

That’s apparently sexually attracted to his own relative.

Dam8610
10-16-2017, 11:58 PM
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE HOW COULD CHUCK PAGANO MAKE BRISSETT MISS EVERY OPPORTUNITY FOR SUCCESS IN THE SECOND HALF?! PLAYERS BEAR NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR EXECUTION RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

I honestly don't understand what issues you have. The challenge Pagano should've won? Not taking the timeout before the two minute warning wasn't the best decision, but became totally irrelevant when the Titans converted. Brissett was awful in the second half, and it wasn't the playcalling, they kept adjusting and trying different blitz beaters, but he just couldn't beat the blitz. You can't win if your offense goes 3 and out every time, and you're foolish if you think that's on coaching, because I saw them try everything to get Brissett going in the second half, he just couldn't execute.

DrSpaceman
10-17-2017, 12:05 AM
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE HOW COULD CHUCK PAGANO MAKE BRISSETT MISS EVERY OPPORTUNITY FOR SUCCESS IN THE SECOND HALF?! PLAYERS BEAR NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR EXECUTION RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

I honestly don't understand what issues you have. The challenge Pagano should've won? Not taking the timeout before the two minute warning wasn't the best decision, but became totally irrelevant when the Titans converted. Brissett was awful in the second half, and it wasn't the playcalling, they kept adjusting and trying different blitz beaters, but he just couldn't beat the blitz. You can't win if your offense goes 3 and out every time, and you're foolish if you think that's on coaching, because I saw them try everything to get Brissett going in the second half, he just couldn't execute.

You know I try not to insult other colts fans on here, but seriously, this is just idiotic

I don't know how you could watch the second half and not see how the team was totally outcoached with half time adjustments on both side of the ball

I don't care about the challenge or the time outs. Offensively and defensively, outside of one play for a pick 6 and one big return by Bray, this team sucked in every way in the second half.

ANd yet you don't blame any of that on the coaching?

That's forking ridiculous

Dam8610
10-17-2017, 12:09 AM
You know I try not to insult other colts fans on here, but seriously, this is just idiotic

I don't know how you could watch the second half and not see how the team was totally outcoached with half time adjustments on both side of the ball

I don't care about the challenge or the time outs. Offensively and defensively, outside of one play for a pick 6 and one big return by Bray, this team sucked in every way in the second half.

ANd yet you don't blame any of that on the coaching?

That's forking ridiculous

The playcalls weren't the problem. Brissett got rattled by the blitzes and couldn't recover. They tried blitz counters, Brissett couldn't execute them.

DrSpaceman
10-17-2017, 12:12 AM
The playcalls weren't the problem. Brissett got rattled by the blitzes and couldn't recover. They tried blitz counters, Brissett couldn't execute them.

Even if that were true (which its not), Brissett does not play defense.

So what was their excuse?

Let me guess, they are tired from being on the field too much?

They were on the field too much because they can't make a 3rd down play to save their lives.

smitty46953
10-17-2017, 12:12 AM
Quincy Wilson a healthy scratch while Desir comes in for Melvin and... a busted coverage go ahead TD. ??? :cool: I don't get this one at all

DrSpaceman
10-17-2017, 12:16 AM
Quincy Wilson a healthy scratch while Desir comes in for Melvin and... a busted coverage go ahead TD. ??? :cool: I don't get this one at all

Its the same logic they used when they thought Green could play corner even though he sucked in coverage as a safety

Dam8610
10-17-2017, 01:22 AM
Even if that were true (which its not), Brissett does not play defense.

So what was their excuse?

Let me guess, they are tired from being on the field too much?

They were on the field too much because they can't make a 3rd down play to save their lives.

How is the players being unable to execute on the coaches? Pagano can't throw the ball, make the block, make the tackle, cover the receiver, etc.

GoBigBlue88
10-17-2017, 06:52 AM
How is the players being unable to execute on the coaches? Pagano can't throw the ball, make the block, make the tackle, cover the receiver, etc.

How is anything ever on the coaches?

I think I've finally solved the Dam riddle: Pagano and the coaching staff should suit up and play in addition to coaching. Er, "coaching".

FatDT
10-17-2017, 07:46 AM
Lol this guy.

Dam8610
10-17-2017, 08:28 AM
How is anything ever on the coaches?

I think I've finally solved the Dam riddle: Pagano and the coaching staff should suit up and play in addition to coaching. Er, "coaching".

That's the only way they could take as much blame as you want to assign to them.

IndyNorm
10-17-2017, 08:40 AM
Quincy Wilson a healthy scratch while Desir comes in for Melvin and... a busted coverage go ahead TD. ??? :cool: I don't get this one at all

We all know that was Ballard channeling his inner Grigson and making Clappy sit Wilson. If it was up to Clappy to make playing decisions we'd always have the most optimum lineup on the field b/c Clappy is a Dam good coach.

Colts And Orioles
10-17-2017, 11:33 AM
o


If this team had Andrew Luck and an average head coach instead of Pagano, they would be at least 4-2 instead of 2-4, and would have at least given the Seahawks a better/more competitive game than they did.


There is nothing that can be done about Luck, who needs to continue to heal properly/recover from his major injury ........ there IS something that can be done about Pagano.


o

Dam8610
10-17-2017, 07:01 PM
o


If this team had Andrew Luck and an average head coach instead of Pagano, they would be at least 4-2 instead of 2-4, and would have at least given the Seahawks a better/more competitive game than they did.


There is nothing that can be done about Luck, who needs to continue to heal properly/recover from his major injury ........ there IS something that can be done about Pagano.


o

This team with Andrew Luck is likely at least 4-2.

Racehorse
10-17-2017, 07:19 PM
This team with Andrew Luck is likely at least 4-2.

But we have no talent, according to Dam. Wait, that's you. Contradict yourself much?

Butter
10-17-2017, 08:33 PM
This team with Andrew Luck is likely at least 4-2.
Probably, maybe 5-1. With a competent coaching staff they are 4-2 or 3-3 as well.

DrSpaceman
10-17-2017, 09:07 PM
This team should be 4-2 even without Luck and if the coaches could make absolutely any second half adjustments.

Dewey 5
10-17-2017, 10:30 PM
How is the players being unable to execute on the coaches? Pagano can't throw the ball, make the block, make the tackle, cover the receiver, etc.

Okay now you're just trolling. No individual that has any semblance of football knowledge can be this fucking dumb.

Dam8610
10-17-2017, 11:29 PM
But we have no talent, according to Dam. Wait, that's you. Contradict yourself much?

No, I recognize the value of a franchise QB and the death spiral that happens with consistent 3 and outs on offense.

Racehorse
10-18-2017, 07:02 AM
No, I recognize the value of a franchise QB and the death spiral that happens with consistent 3 and outs on offense that are cause by poor coaching, whether that occurs on the sidelines or at halftime when most coaches make good adjustments instead of the bad ones that our coach makes.

For once, I almost agreed with you. I had to add in the truth to do so, however.

Dam8610
10-18-2017, 09:39 AM
For once, I almost agreed with you. I had to add in the truth to do so, however.

This is the fundamental disagreement we have, I think. You seem to think things like a QB overthrowing a ball, a receiver or tight end dropping a pass, or an OL not making a good enough block are on coaching, which means in your world players bear no responsibility to execute the responsibilities of their position. I disagree with that entirely. It is the QB's job to throw the ball accurately, it is the receiver's job to catch the ball, and it is the OL's job to make their blocks well enough to allow the skill players to execute their responsibilities. If they're not doing that, they need replaced, but unfortunately it's nigh impossible to do that midseason.

1965southpaw
10-18-2017, 11:14 AM
This is the fundamental disagreement we have, I think. You seem to think things like a QB overthrowing a ball, a receiver or tight end dropping a pass, or an OL not making a good enough block are on coaching, which means in your world players bear no responsibility to execute the responsibilities of their position. I disagree with that entirely. It is the QB's job to throw the ball accurately, it is the receiver's job to catch the ball, and it is the OL's job to make their blocks well enough to allow the skill players to execute their responsibilities. If they're not doing that, they need replaced, but unfortunately it's nigh impossible to do that midseason.


As I mentioned in my previous post my fundamental disagreement is you over emphasize the accountability of the talent and underemphasize the accountability of the coaching. Both are true and are grave issues for this franchise. For example from the Titans game:

1. Moncrief dropped a catch for a touchdown that was a perfect ball right in his hands with very little pressure from the defender. It is Inexcusable that he cost his team points. His contract is due next year. We have seen enough. He should be held to account and should NOT be signed. Further, according to Doyle, he skipped out of the locker room so fast after the game they were searching for him to interview him and he was nowhere to be found. He's a self centered punk who is not a good team mate. Done

2. Our coaches put our best offensive asset (Hilton) in a bunch formation exactly once where he gained 19 yards yet failed to replicate that sensible/obvious design to thwart the Titans bracket. There are dozens of scheme issues, clock management isssues, and roster selection issues over the course of 6 years that this leadership team has made with unacceptable result and they must be held to account and fired at the end of the season.

It's not that hard.....it's not players or coaching. It's players AND coaching. But you can't ignore the coaching incompetence. To do so diminishes your credibility.

Racehorse
10-18-2017, 11:57 AM
This is the fundamental disagreement we have, I think. You seem to think things like a QB overthrowing a ball, a receiver or tight end dropping a pass, or an OL not making a good enough block are on coaching, which means in your world players bear no responsibility to execute the responsibilities of their position. I disagree with that entirely. It is the QB's job to throw the ball accurately, it is the receiver's job to catch the ball, and it is the OL's job to make their blocks well enough to allow the skill players to execute their responsibilities. If they're not doing that, they need replaced, but unfortunately it's nigh impossible to do that midseason.

It is the responsibility of the coach to correct those things. Instead, players get a clap and a pat on the backside. If he seemed to have an inkling of how to even start doing his job right, we would still support him.

Dam8610
10-19-2017, 04:23 PM
As I mentioned in my previous post my fundamental disagreement is you over emphasize the accountability of the talent and underemphasize the accountability of the coaching. Both are true and are grave issues for this franchise. For example from the Titans game:

1. Moncrief dropped a catch for a touchdown that was a perfect ball right in his hands with very little pressure from the defender. It is Inexcusable that he cost his team points. His contract is due next year. We have seen enough. He should be held to account and should NOT be signed. Further, according to Doyle, he skipped out of the locker room so fast after the game they were searching for him to interview him and he was nowhere to be found. He's a self centered punk who is not a good team mate. Done

2. Our coaches put our best offensive asset (Hilton) in a bunch formation exactly once where he gained 19 yards yet failed to replicate that sensible/obvious design to thwart the Titans bracket. There are dozens of scheme issues, clock management isssues, and roster selection issues over the course of 6 years that this leadership team has made with unacceptable result and they must be held to account and fired at the end of the season.

It's not that hard.....it's not players or coaching. It's players AND coaching. But you can't ignore the coaching incompetence. To do so diminishes your credibility.

Of course the coaching bears some responsibility, just usually nowhere near the degree of responsibility most posters on this board want to claim. For example, everyone here wants to say that because the Titans were successful blitzing that the coaching staff failed to adjust to that. The reality is that the coaches called plays that would've beat the blitz in the second half, but the players (Brissett mainly) didn't execute. I know coaches and QBs get bigger shares of credit for wins and blame for losses than is deserved, but you guys take the coaches and blame part way too far.

Dam8610
10-19-2017, 04:29 PM
It is the responsibility of the coach to correct those things. Instead, players get a clap and a pat on the backside. If he seemed to have an inkling of how to even start doing his job right, we would still support him.

What is he supposed to do if Brissett consistently fails to execute in the second half? Put Tolzien in? Sure, he can tell him not to overthrow it, go over mechanics with him, practice it more during the week, etc., but ultimately, if Brissett is going to overthrow a ball in a situation, he's going to do that, and that's on him, because the coaching staff can't go out and their the ball for him. Sometimes the coaching staff doesn't have a good option.

ChoppedWood
10-19-2017, 06:29 PM
Sometimes the coaching staff doesn't have a good option.

This staff has not just a good option, they have a great option- quit!

apballin
10-19-2017, 09:26 PM
Brissett consistently chokes in the 2nd Half that's the issue

YDFL Commish
10-19-2017, 10:32 PM
Brissett consistently chokes in the 2nd Half that's the issue

Ok...Dam's mom.

Spike
10-20-2017, 08:48 AM
Chuck doesn't know why Mack only had 2 carries. SMDH. Doesn't he even talk to Chud during games? Talk about a fucked up coaching staff.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/10/19/hey-colts-time-give-ball-marlon-mack/780931001/

1965southpaw
10-20-2017, 11:10 AM
Chuck doesn't know why Mack only had 2 carries. SMDH. Doesn't he even talk to Chud during games? Talk about a fucked up coaching staff.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2017/10/19/hey-colts-time-give-ball-marlon-mack/780931001/


Wow. I kind of think he's already been told this is his last year and it's freed him from pretending to give a fuck.....Frank and Mack.....Mack and Cheese......seriously?!

Spike
10-20-2017, 11:53 AM
Wow. I kind of think he's already been told this is his last year and it's freed him from pretending to give a fuck.....Frank and Mack.....Mack and Cheese......seriously?!

Pagano is a fucking clown!

Luck4Reich
10-20-2017, 04:07 PM
Pagano is a fucking clown!

I wish he would stop posing as an NFL coach and join the circus where he belongs. Dam could join him and be a snake charmer.

Racehorse
10-20-2017, 05:25 PM
What is he supposed to do if Brissett consistently fails to execute in the second half? Put Tolzien in? Sure, he can tell him not to overthrow it, go over mechanics with him, practice it more during the week, etc., but ultimately, if Brissett is going to overthrow a ball in a situation, he's going to do that, and that's on him, because the coaching staff can't go out and their the ball for him. Sometimes the coaching staff doesn't have a good option.

I am shocked that he didn't bring in Tolshit. He seems to like the guy and he benched Mack for missing one block on favor of a less talented RB.

omahacolt
10-20-2017, 06:29 PM
Brissett consistently chokes in the 2nd Half that's the issue

oh yeah

is that why Luck struggles at times. he is choking? can't be because we have a shit staff that ill prepares the team or fails to compensate for pressure right?

i liked you better before you became a fanboy

apballin
10-20-2017, 08:27 PM
oh yeah

is that why Luck struggles at times. he is choking? can't be because we have a shit staff that ill prepares the team or fails to compensate for pressure right?

i liked you better before you became a fanboy

Bullshit- Luck struggles early in games, he's at his best just reacting not running a pre planned game scheme

Brissket is just the opposite comes in hot, executes great, then when intensity gets cranked up he checks down or goes deer in headlights-- on theroad he's even worse

Racehorse
10-20-2017, 08:37 PM
Bullshit- Luck struggles early in games, he's at his best just reacting not running a pre planned game scheme

Brissket is just the opposite comes in hot, executes great, then when intensity gets cranked up he checks down or goes deer in headlights-- on theroad he's even worse

Luck struggles early because of shitty game-planning by Pagano. When he forsakes it, he excels. Brissett does well with what he has learned so far, but runs into problems after the half. His struggles late in the game are because Pagano does not equip the team at the half to make adjustments.

1965southpaw
10-20-2017, 11:28 PM
As far as I'm concerned labeling Brisset a choker is ridiculous. If you want to give him a label I think hero is a Better fit. Has he made some poor decisions.....absolutely and has been frazzled at times. But when you consider this 23 y/o came in September and had to learn and execute a whole different offense on the fly it boggles the mind to think how well he has performed. Those who know both the Patriots and Colts systems (ex Reggie, Duane Allen ) have all noted that they are 180 degree different.....this is THE most complex position and when you add in his poise, leadership, and toughness it's nothing short of remarkable. Several of the reporters who cover the colts beat have noted that his peers have a ton of respect for him in the locker room. As tough as this season has been as a fan, I don't want to imagine what a cluster fuck it would be if we still had Tolzein under center.

Voosh
10-21-2017, 04:17 AM
At this point I think I'm convinced apballin is Dam's alt account.

omahacolt
10-21-2017, 06:43 AM
At this point I think I'm convinced apballin is Dam's alt account.

Or maybe they are lovers. Maybe they will get married and invite us all to their gay pagano themed wedding. They will never get divorced because dam can't admit he is wrong.

My guess is apballin is the botttom.

apballin
10-22-2017, 06:11 PM
I'm gay because I don't over react and put everything on Pagano

Yet you little bitches blame everything with this injury riddled flawed ass roster on Pagano

Get a grip pussies- we've seen this movie before

No fucking coach is winning with this team I don't give a fuck who it is

omahacolt
10-22-2017, 06:23 PM
I'm gay because I don't over react and put everything on Pagano

Yet you little bitches blame everything with this injury riddled flawed ass roster on Pagano

Get a grip pussies- we've seen this movie before

No fucking coach is winning with this team I don't give a fuck who it is

it isn't about the winning. it is about the effort, readiness, inability to recognize his best players, and actual play on the field.

that is why pagano should be fired.

and you are gay because the only reason you would support pagano at this point is if you wanted to jump his incompetent bones

apballin
10-22-2017, 06:40 PM
it isn't about the winning. it is about the effort, readiness, inability to recognize his best players, and actual play on the field.

that is why pagano should be fired.

and you are gay because the only reason you would support pagano at this point is if you wanted to jump his incompetent bones

His best player is hurt, then Kelly, Hooker, Melvin leave the game

If this was happening with Luck, ok but what did we really expect

Indiana V2
10-22-2017, 06:47 PM
I'm gay because I don't over react and put everything on Pagano

Yet you little bitches blame everything with this injury riddled flawed ass roster on Pagano

Get a grip pussies- we've seen this movie before

No fucking coach is winning with this team I don't give a fuck who it is

So Dam has two accounts? Since ap stands for either Ashley, Amber, or Alice Pagano, and ballin is misspelled, should be bawling, then Dam is a Pagano. It all makes sense now.

omahacolt
10-22-2017, 06:55 PM
His best player is hurt, then Kelly, Hooker, Melvin leave the game

If this was happening with Luck, ok but what did we really expect

competency

Indiana V2
10-22-2017, 06:59 PM
I'm gay.

Thought so. :p

Indiana V2
10-22-2017, 07:01 PM
His best player is hurt, then Kelly, Hooker, Melvin leave the game

If this was happening with Luck, ok but what did we really expect

Next man up. Pagano helped build this roster, when someone goes down there should be an adequate backup to fill in, not crap.

apballin
10-22-2017, 07:06 PM
Next man up. Pagano helped build this roster, when someone goes down there should be an adequate backup to fill in, not crap.

Backup QB was not addressed because Luck was "gonna be ready"

Luck4Reich
10-22-2017, 07:09 PM
Backup QB was not addressed because Luck was "gonna be ready"

And Pagano was telling us Tolzien looked great and was ready to go.
Also though Green should start at CB over much better options.

The list goes on and on

apballin
10-22-2017, 07:13 PM
And Pagano was telling us Tolzien looked great and was ready to go.
Also though Green should start at CB over much better options.

The list goes on and on

What's he supposed to say?

He's the coach and you got to have your players back

We all know the shit he says in front of the media is all bullshit right?

Indiana V2
10-22-2017, 07:23 PM
What's he supposed to say?

He's the coach and you got to have your players back

We all know the shit he says in front of the media is all bullshit right?

If we know it's BS, and the media knows it BS, then the players know it's BS, so how are you going to win over the players by lying to them. You lose credibility, and then the players your coaching, just as he has already this season.

Racehorse
10-22-2017, 07:36 PM
If I were Dam, i would stay away until Pagano does something positive. However, I am not Dam; I am smart.

omahacolt
10-22-2017, 07:37 PM
What's he supposed to say?

He's the coach and you got to have your players back

We all know the shit he says in front of the media is all bullshit right?

You truly are a stupid person aren't you?

What was your sat score?

Racehorse
10-22-2017, 07:42 PM
You truly are a stupid person aren't you?

What was your sat score?

Same as his golf score.

Gimmick
10-22-2017, 08:23 PM
People who ever thought Pagano was a good head coach are dumb as hell.
FACT

People who ever thought Ryan Grigson was a good GM are dumb as hell.
FACT

People who ever thought Pep Hamilton was a good offensive coordinator are dumb as hell.
FACT

These things are not mutually exclusive.

apballin
10-24-2017, 07:30 PM
You truly are a stupid person aren't you?

What was your sat score?

Once again your stumped I see

This isn't brain game dumbfuck

Shouldn't you be bitching about Trump faggot

apballin
10-24-2017, 07:32 PM
Same as his golf score.

Yep fuck golf, boring ass waste of time

I'm not a pussy that needs an excuse to go drink with my friends

indyballinblue
10-25-2017, 11:58 AM
Yep fuck golf, boring ass waste of time

I'm not a pussy that needs an excuse to go drink with my friends

When most guys are swinging clubs, you're washing balls aren't ya?

I good coach, like that douche in New England, puts some less talented players in positions and has them succeed. Ninkovich, Vrabel, Amendola, Brady, any RB he's ever had, etc. A good coach knows how to game plan around his roster even if it's less talented.

He's the head coach. He's the one that should be overseeing everything that is working well and what doesn't. If it works, continue to do it, if it sucks, change it, but he sure as hell doesn't even know what he's lookin at to evaluate if it's good or not.

Pagano just stares at the damn screen and wonders what his next tag line will be, instead of installing a game plan taking advantage of a young fresh RB that can make plays, moving your QB around to keep him from getting put on his ass, or even sets to get your best offensive weapon a mismatch.

Dam8610
10-25-2017, 01:58 PM
When most guys are swinging clubs, you're washing balls aren't ya?

I good coach, like that douche in New England, puts some less talented players in positions and has them succeed. Ninkovich, Vrabel, Amendola, Brady, any RB he's ever had, etc. A good coach knows how to game plan around his roster even if it's less talented.

He's the head coach. He's the one that should be overseeing everything that is working well and what doesn't. If it works, continue to do it, if it sucks, change it, but he sure as hell doesn't even know what he's lookin at to evaluate if it's good or not.

Pagano just stares at the damn screen and wonders what his next tag line will be, instead of installing a game plan taking advantage of a young fresh RB that can make plays, moving your QB around to keep him from getting put on his ass, or even sets to get your best offensive weapon a mismatch.

That douche in NE cheats. It's a lot easier to put players in position to succeed when you know what the other team is calling.

Butter
10-25-2017, 08:16 PM
That douche in NE cheats. It's a lot easier to put players in position to succeed when you know what the other team is calling.

No doubt that is true and a part of NEs success, but clearly he is one of the best coaches the NFL has seen.

Dam8610
10-25-2017, 08:43 PM
No doubt that is true and a part of NEs success, but clearly he is one of the best coaches the NFL has seen.

I don't buy that because we'll never know what portion of his success is due to his cheating. Personally, I'd attribute practically all of it to that.

ChoppedWood
10-25-2017, 09:57 PM
I don't buy that because we'll never know what portion of his success is due to his cheating. Personally, I'd attribute practically all of it to that.

Chuck cheats too- he cheats us out of enjoying football.

rcubed
10-26-2017, 02:01 AM
Chuck cheats too- he cheats us out of enjoying football.
You are bad at this.

southside asshole
10-26-2017, 04:16 PM
I don't buy that because we'll never know what portion of his success is due to his cheating. Personally, I'd attribute practically all of it to that.

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Please correct any part I misinterpret.


Bill Belichick is not a good coach.
Chuck Pagano is a good coach.

Dam8610
10-27-2017, 06:36 PM
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Please correct any part I misinterpret.


Bill Belichick is not a good coach.
Chuck Pagano is a good coach.


You're wrong on both counts.

Belicheat is a cheater and we have no idea what he or his teams would have achieved without cheating. He's essentially an unknown quantity. It's hard to parse what's coaching and what's cheating when he knows what the other team is going to call.

Pagano to me is an average NFL head coach who has been hamstrung by horrible rosters, especially defensively. What little talent he's had has been successful with him and his teams have outperformed their talent level in the win column. I think he could probably take the right roster where we as fans want them to be, but he hasn't had anything close to the right roster in six years.

Racehorse
10-27-2017, 09:33 PM
You're wrong on both counts.

Belicheat is a cheater and we have no idea what he or his teams would have achieved without cheating. He's essentially an unknown quantity. It's hard to parse what's coaching and what's cheating when he knows what the other team is going to call.

Pagano to me is an average NFL head coach who has been hamstrung by horrible rosters, especially defensively. What little talent he's had has been successful with him and his teams have outperformed their talent level in the win column. I think he could probably take the right roster where we as fans want them to be, but he hasn't had anything close to the right roster in six years.
Mostly agree about the cheater, but Pagano is a far cry from average. You give him far too much credit.

Gimmick
10-28-2017, 05:24 AM
What little talent he's had has been successful with him and his teams have outperformed their talent level in the win column. I think he could probably take the right roster where we as fans want them to be, but he hasn't had anything close to the right roster in six years.

This is literally the single dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on here.
Congratulations.

1965southpaw
10-28-2017, 12:25 PM
This is literally the single dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on here.
Congratulations.

I vote this thread be permanently shut down.

apballin
10-28-2017, 02:57 PM
I vote this thread be permanently shut down.

Any post with Pagano and non hate and it's dumb, you motherfuckers are pathetic