Taylor has requested to be traded.

[rm1369]

Sad. Doubt there is a market for what he wants. He and his agent believe he is an extremely valuable asset that deserves to be paid. There shouldn’t be an issue finding a trade partner that will make the Colts a good offer then. Let them go set up a trade. No less than a (expected) mid level 2nd. Otherwise I’d rather just hold him and let him rot.

[ChaosTheory]

This was starting to remind me of the Le'Veon Bell situation. Is it actually going to become that? From Taylor of all guys?

[apballin]

Yea never thought Taylor Would act like a diva

Oh well next man up

[CletusPyle]

Disappointing.....Moss may not have his home run capabilities, but he is a solid back, don't let the door hit you in the ass JT!

[Oldcolt]

Not going to end well for JT. He is replaceable and seems to overvalue himself. Introduce him to LeVeon Bell please. And Bell was a better back by far.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

So apparently Irsay has told Al Breer via text that the Colts aren't trading JT.


https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1685462392119984128

Text from Colts owner Jim Irsay on Jonathan Taylor’s trade request:

“We’re not trading Jonathan… end of discussion. Not now and not in October!”

[Hoopsdoc]

Ok, if they can get a 2nd for him, do it.

Requesting a trade at this point is bullshit, if the rumors are true that they haven’t really even discussed an extension.

Seems like JT just wants out. And if they can get a 2nd for him, pull the trigger.

[ChaosTheory]

So apparently Irsay has told Al Breer via text that the Colts aren't trading JT.


https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1685462392119984128

Right, who would trade for what the Colts would ask? Meanwhile, they have him potentially locked up for years with the franchise tag.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't they non-exclusive franchise tag him in '24 and then let some retard team offer him a dumb contract the Colts don't want to match... and the Colts would get two first-round comp picks?

Of course... Saquon Barkley just got franchise tagged and reportedly Dalvin Cook is being offered something like 2yrs/$19m. Market dictates. Even the retard teams remember Le'Veon Bell robbing the Jets. I don't know what leverage JT's people think he has.

And like Marlon Mack tweeting to pay him... I mean I get it, and I liked Mack, but sorry... Marlon Mack is a textbook example for why RB's are handled the way they are. They're not only subject to more injury risk... they also often don't regain what they had before the injury.

[ChoppedWood]

Such a shitty outcome of what once looked like a transcendent opportunity.

We have ALL the leverage. Dude really runs the risk of destroying his career pulling this stunt right now. Seems like such a smart guy, but this is a very stupid move.

[rcubed]

Wonder how much is coming from his dumbass agent

[ukcolt]

The biggest problem for any NFL RB is that the next guy in college is deemed to be even better, and cheaper. Life sucks, sorry guys, life as an NFL RB at the top table is short even for the extremely talented.

[Mr. Session]

First Hines and now Taylor? What fucking cancer causing chemical is in that RB room?

I loved this guy As a badger, and I was so excited when we drafted him.

It’s a business and it’s his right, and I understand his perspective, but I’m a Colt fan and I’ve seen my guys replace dudes like you TWICE, Jonathan.

You got shit fucked up bro.

[CletusPyle]

Irsay says we aren't trading him, but what kind of effort can you expect to get from such a disgruntled and unhappy player? At this point, I'm not sure I even want a guy like this under contract, he has shown his true character....unless he fires his agent and apologizes (yeah right) I don't trust him!

[ChoppedWood]

Irsay says we aren't trading him, but what kind of effort can you expect to get from such a disgruntled and unhappy player? At this point, I'm not sure I even want a guy like this under contract, he has shown his true character....unless he fires his agent and apologizes (yeah right) I don't trust him!

That's the thing, his cap hit is nothing, he can sit at home and it means basically nothing to the Colts. Hold out, stay home, collect a decent pay check, and watch the NFL march right by you. Next year, we have no obligation to do anything other than post highlights of his replacement. Dude / agent, does not understand this game, he will push himself out of the league with a hold out vs increasing his market / value.

I suppose he could show up, play a couple games, claim he is injured and then sit out so he isn't in violation of his current contract. Of course everyone talks and every owner / GM will know what he's up to- and thus rewarding him becomes even more unlikely. Slippery slope, very slippery.

Either JT or his agent are really stupid, perhaps both of them...

[IndyNorm]

Such a shitty outcome of what once looked like a transcendent opportunity.

We have ALL the leverage. Dude really runs the risk of destroying his career pulling this stunt right now. Seems like such a smart guy, but this is a very stupid move.

No doubt. Crazy thing is this is definitely costing JT money. If he had handled this like a professional similar to MPJ, who IMO has much more leverage currently than JT does, then JT would have gotten paid as long as he had a good year. Probably not Christian McCaffrey money, but at least Derrick Henry/Nick Chubb money. But since he's shown himself to be a total bitch diva then I doubt anyone's going to give him that. Especially when he's under contract, which is what he seems to think he's entitled to.

Also, it's a smaller sample size, but we actually ran the ball better with Moss last year than JT (see below). Which is just another reason why the Colts have all of the leverage.

Moss (4 starts): 4.8 ypc, 87.5 ypg
JT (10 starts): 4.5 ypc, 86.1 ypg

[ChaosTheory]

Irsay says we aren't trading him, but what kind of effort can you expect to get from such a disgruntled and unhappy player?

Like others are saying, that's only going to hurt him if he wants another team to pay money + draft capital for him.

I keep hearing about the agent and it gives me Mike Tyson-Don King vibes as far as corrupting a star. Maybe that's not fair, I don't know.

[rm1369]

Moss (4 starts): 4.8 ypc, 87.5 ypg
JT (10 starts): 4.5 ypc, 86.1 ypg

And this would be the issue with Taylor dogging it. If he can’t show clear separation between himself and Moss then he has zero chance of getting paid top dollar. Certainly no where near the $16m / yr he and his agent are rumored to be asking for. Especially considering he doesn’t offer much as a receiver or blocker in the passing game. Moss ran hard and my guess is he’ll be extra motivated seeing a potential starting job in range.

[nate505]

I hope cooler heads can prevail and things can get patched up.

Taylor is one of my favorite players for the Colts in a long time, and in general I'm sympathetic to the plight of RB's in this league. Irsay's dumbass tweet didn't help anything either.

That said, I can't say this trade demand is good for him, and his agent seems like the biggest fuckwad and a half.

[ChoppedWood]

Just heard some AM talk show that they think JT has been earmarked as the one the RB's think can change the landscape and that he is taking the role of trying to force a new type of contract just for RB's where initial contract is a 3 year vs 4 year. Also trying to set the standard that RB's re-up every 3 years. If this is true, if when all the RB's met to discuss a couple weeks ago he agreed to assume this posture, dude really is stupid. Go through the NFLPA not through your own contract negotiation dumb ass.

[ChaosTheory]

And this would be the issue with Taylor dogging it. If he can’t show clear separation between himself and Moss then he has zero chance of getting paid top dollar. Certainly no where near the $16m / yr he and his agent are rumored to be asking for. Especially considering he doesn’t offer much as a receiver or blocker in the passing game. Moss ran hard and my guess is he’ll be extra motivated seeing a potential starting job in range.

Yes. Taylor's best route to getting paid is the route that is ostensibly setup through the CB agreement. He's only becoming further removed from his 2021 form which is the one a team would pay for. If he would shut up and show up for '24, get back to form and ball out... that's his best path to an extension.

If you're on the wrong end of a Zack Moss comparison, however...

Just heard some AM talk show that they think JT has been earmarked as the one the RB's think can change the landscape and that he is taking the role of trying to force a new type of contract just for RB's where initial contract is a 3 year vs 4 year. Also trying to set the standard that RB's re-up every 3 years. If this is true, if when all the RB's met to discuss a couple weeks ago he agreed to assume this posture, dude really is stupid. Go through the NFLPA not through your own contract negotiation dumb ass.

It's fucking stupid. What, we're going to have individual CB's for every position in the game? Eventually the union rep for the X-Receivers is pushing for more guaranteed money because Z-Receivers get to line up off the line of scrimmage.

[IndyNorm]

And this would be the issue with Taylor dogging it. If he can’t show clear separation between himself and Moss then he has zero chance of getting paid top dollar. Certainly no where near the $16m / yr he and his agent are rumored to be asking for. Especially considering he doesn’t offer much as a receiver or blocker in the passing game. Moss ran hard and my guess is he’ll be extra motivated seeing a potential starting job in range.

Taylor has definitely backed himself into a corner. Unless he's going to get that trade he requested, which doesn't sound likely, he's going to have to do a 180 on his attitude and ball out this season if he wants to get paid next year.

[IndyNorm]

Yes. Taylor's best route to getting paid is the route that is ostensibly setup through the CB agreement. He's only becoming further removed from his 2021 form which is the one a team would pay for. If he would shut up and show up for '24, get back to form and ball out... that's his best path to an extension.

If you're on the wrong end of a Zack Moss comparison, however...



A healthy JT is definitely better than Moss. Don't think anyone is going to argue that. But the dropoff doesn't appear to be so much that having to go w/ Moss instead of JT is going to kill the season. At least from the small sample size from Moss that we have to go off of.

[Oldcolt]

Just heard some AM talk show that they think JT has been earmarked as the one the RB's think can change the landscape and that he is taking the role of trying to force a new type of contract just for RB's where initial contract is a 3 year vs 4 year. Also trying to set the standard that RB's re-up every 3 years. If this is true, if when all the RB's met to discuss a couple weeks ago he agreed to assume this posture, dude really is stupid. Go through the NFLPA not through your own contract negotiation dumb ass.

This makes the most sense to me. Guy was all in on playing out his contract and getting paid. It was no issue that he wouldn't get a new contract this year until it was. What changed? I have no idea but this makes sense on the surface. If it is true we it will get out, to many people will have had to know about it. It is a mess but labor issues usually are. The team will be fine whatever happens with this mess

[ChoppedWood]

Wow, new agent doing maximum reputational harm... JT one of these book smart street stupid guys or what???

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doyel-jonathan-taylor-joins-andrew-031740457.html

[Hoopsdoc]

Taylor has definitely backed himself into a corner. Unless he's going to get that trade he requested, which doesn't sound likely, he's going to have to do a 180 on his attitude and ball out this season if he wants to get paid next year.

Colts would be fools to trade him. Tell him either show up and play or stay the fuck away. See how well that works for him.

[ChoppedWood]

Colts would be fools to trade him. Tell him either show up and play or stay the fuck away. See how well that works for him.

Exactly. We aren't gonna get anything better than a 2nd for a RB, sucks but that's the market, even for a potentially all time great. Nope, sit on his ass and let him squirm.

[ChaosTheory]

A healthy JT is definitely better than Moss. Don't think anyone is going to argue that. But the dropoff doesn't appear to be so much that having to go w/ Moss instead of JT is going to kill the season. At least from the small sample size from Moss that we have to go off of.

Absolutely. The stat you posted just illustrates that, among other issues, the timing isn't helping him gain leverage. Opposite.

[Hoopsdoc]

Exactly. We aren't gonna get anything better than a 2nd for a RB, sucks but that's the market, even for a potentially all time great. Nope, sit on his ass and let him squirm.

I empathize with players more than I used to. I really do. But from what I can tell, Taylor hasn’t really even given the Colts a chance to make an offer. Sounds like he said something to the effect of “I want an extension and I want it now”.

Fuck that.

He can kiss my ass.

Either suit up and play or sit out the season, as far as I’m concerned.

He’s not going to come out ahead by sitting out.

[ChoppedWood]

I empathize with players more than I used to. I really do. But from what I can tell, Taylor hasn’t really even given the Colts a chance to make an offer. Sounds like he said something to the effect of “I want an extension and I want it now”.

Fuck that.

He can kiss my ass.

Either suit up and play or sit out the season, as far as I’m concerned.

He’s not going to come out ahead by sitting out.

I agree, the situation for these guys is awful. Listening to a talk show the other day, RB's are the only position that play after play after play they get hit by a dude that is 100-150 LBs heavier than them. Yet year in and out, there are dudes that get 2,000 of their teams ~5,500 - 6,000 yards; one dude is accounting for 1/3 of the total output in yards- and they are getting paid some of the lowest wages for the job they perform. Their shelf life really is tiny, and that sucks. However, there is no quick fix to this legitimate issue, and trying to use your own personal contract to bend the knee of 32 multi-billionaires, man that is a dumb fucking path to choose. Cannot believe he of all people appears to be the moron that thinks he can change the NFL landscape. Wow.

[Oldcolt]

Running backs situations is awful compared to who? JT is pissed because he is only going to make 4 million plus this year and is slated for 10=12 million next year. Not the 20-30 million wrs get, but awful? Not in the world I live in. He overvalues himself.

[Hoopsdoc]

I agree, the situation for these guys is awful. Listening to a talk show the other day, RB's are the only position that play after play after play they get hit by a dude that is 100-150 LBs heavier than them. Yet year in and out, there are dudes that get 2,000 of their teams ~5,500 - 6,000 yards; one dude is accounting for 1/3 of the total output in yards- and they are getting paid some of the lowest wages for the job they perform. Their shelf life really is tiny, and that sucks. However, there is no quick fix to this legitimate issue, and trying to use your own personal contract to bend the knee of 32 multi-billionaires, man that is a dumb fucking path to choose. Cannot believe he of all people appears to be the moron that thinks he can change the NFL landscape. Wow.

I guess his agent convinced him that scorched earth was the way to go. I have no idea why a guy as smart as JT fell for it.

All he’s doing is turning the fanbase and, more importantly, Irsay against him.

I have no idea what he thinks he’s going to get from another team that he won’t get from the Colts.

No team, and I mean NONE, are going to give up assets to get him and then give him the contract he wants.

It’s insane that he apparently thinks that’s possible.

This agent has poisoned his brain, apparently.

[Hoopsdoc]

At this point I’ll be pissed if the Colts blink.

Seriously, fuck that guy.

We paid Nelson, we paid Leonard, we paid Stewart, we paid Defo, we paid Smith, we paid Hines.

If he didn’t go nuclear, he was probably going to get an extension.

Now, it doesn’t look likely.

In fact, I hope it doesn’t happen.

[ChoppedWood]

At this point I’ll be pissed if the Colts blink.

Seriously, fuck that guy.

We paid Nelson, we paid Leonard, we paid Stewart, we paid Defo, we paid Smith, we paid Hines.

If he didn’t go nuclear, he was probably going to get an extension.

Now, it doesn’t look likely.

In fact, I hope it doesn’t happen.

All that stuff you are talking about with Nelson etc... I firmly believe that's the impetus behind Taylor being the one who was elected to run the closing leg for the team (if such a decision was orchestrated by the RB's). Irsay, and Ballard are KNOWN for paying their own. So in a room of dudes trying to figure out who to tag with this task- JT makes a lot of sense. Front office known for loyalty and a brand new QB with all of 13 college games under his belt, and an Oline that was at one point considered the best in the league and COULD produce a HUGE year for JT. We need to turn things around, lean on JT to run a bunch, lean on the OT returning to form, let the rookie grow into passing in pressure situations... it all makes sense.

It all makes sense up to the point that you stop and think about where the money comes from. It comes from a group of tycoons, who put a guy at the top of the pyramid that is paid a ridiculously absurd salary to increase their tycoonism. It's a rigged system JT, and for as great as you appear to be, and as bad as it appears the Colts need you in the backfield this year, you don't have the bag to challenge these dudes, you just don't. None of these owners are going to yield to this type of heavy handed tactic, none of them due to the damage it represents to the unified power structure.

Yep, if he had just gone out and busted it, Jim would have probably given him a 13-15 per contract- just because that's what he does. Instead, looks like JT's gonna need to work with his financial advisor to figure out how to spread that $4M around this year.

So fucking stupid.

[Hoopsdoc]

Now Chappell is reporting that the Colts are considering placing him on the non football injury list due to a back injury he suffered away from the team. Which would leave them the option of voiding his salary this season and just tolling his contract to next year.

Looks like Jim and/or Ballard are willing to play hardball. Or at least act like they will.

Holy shit. It’s stunning how fast this has fallen apart.

I’m starting to wonder if he’ll ever play another down for the Colts.

[ChoppedWood]

Now Chappell is reporting that the Colts are considering placing him on the non football injury list due to a back injury he suffered away from the team. Which would leave them the option of voiding his salary this season and just tolling his contract to next year.

Looks like Jim and/or Ballard are willing to play hardball. Or at least act like they will.

Holy shit. It’s stunning how fast this has fallen apart.

I’m starting to wonder if he’ll ever play another down for the Colts.

Holy shit, nuclear option on the table. This is crazyiness.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Introduce him to LeVeon Bell please. And Bell was a better back by far.


No kidding. And Bell is doing a lot of talking over the last few months about his Pittsburgh exit. He has admitted that he has a lot of regrets about it and even apologized to Steelers fans.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/leveon-bell-regrets-steelers-exit-should-never-left/zpgfmdv6jxoi9tgxsmgxhvip

[Hoopsdoc]

Holy shit, nuclear option on the table. This is crazyiness.

Yeah, Jim’s pissed now.

I don’t see any way JT comes out ahead on this unless the Colts cave. No team is going to trade for him and the Colts aren’t just going to release him.

The agents not going to back down now or he’d lose face.

I don’t think this is going to end well.

[ChaosTheory]

Now Chappell is reporting that the Colts are considering placing him on the non football injury list due to a back injury he suffered away from the team. Which would leave them the option of voiding his salary this season and just tolling his contract to next year.

Looks like Jim and/or Ballard are willing to play hardball. Or at least act like they will.

Holy shit. It’s stunning how fast this has fallen apart.

I’m starting to wonder if he’ll ever play another down for the Colts.

Seriously? Was a back injury known and I missed it? Or is this just a face value fuck you back at JT and Co.? Cause remember Luck proved with his snowboarding accident that a team doesn't have to use the non-football injury list (star QB, I know).

Of course they have every right to use it if an injury occurred. The NFL even sent out a memo regarding injuries away from team facilities (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-reiterates-that-injuries-away-from-team-facilities-expose-players-to-losing-their-salaries) prior to 2021 when DEN OT Ja'Wuan James blew out his knee away from the team and lost his salary + $15m in guarantees.

They sent that memo because so many players were publicly shocked and unaware that they could lose their contracts under those circumstances. Did JT and Co. not read the memo before they made their battle plan?

[CletusPyle]

Like I said....JT needs to fire this asswipe agent and apologize if he ever wants to play for the Colts again. This agent has come very close to totally ruining a potential HOF career!

[ChoppedWood]

Seriously? Was a back injury known and I missed it? Or is this just a face value fuck you back at JT and Co.? Cause remember Luck proved with his snowboarding accident that a team doesn't have to use the non-football injury list (star QB, I know).

Of course they have every right to use it if an injury occurred. The NFL even sent out a memo regarding injuries away from team facilities (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-reiterates-that-injuries-away-from-team-facilities-expose-players-to-losing-their-salaries) prior to 2021 when DEN OT Ja'Wuan James blew out his knee away from the team and lost his salary + $15m in guarantees.

They sent that memo because so many players were publicly shocked and unaware that they could lose their contracts under those circumstances. Did JT and Co. not read the memo before they made their battle plan?

JT just tweeted:
1- Never had a back pain
2- Never reported back pain
Not sure who "sources" are, but find new ones

Oh yeah, this is headed straight to hell.

Unbelievable the unraveling.

[CletusPyle]

JT just tweeted:
1- Never had a back pain
2- Never reported back pain
Not sure who "sources" are, but find new ones

Oh yeah, this is headed straight to hell.

Unbelievable the unraveling.

:D I don't think Colts would just make that up...bet they have a source!

[ChaosTheory]

So who reported the back injury? I see Chappell and Holder attached to it and they are typically solid.

Doesn't necessarily mean JT is lying, but... If JT is being honest, that would mean a dishonest leak from the Colts... but what do the Colts stand to gain by making JT look worse at this point?

I can't think of a reason, which makes me lean toward believing the back injury is real.

[ChaosTheory]

Well, Mike Chappell is confident enough in his source that he wrote an article (https://fox59.com/sports/indianapolis-colts-considering-placing-running-back-jonathan-taylor-on-non-football-injury-list-with-back-issue/?utm_source=wxin_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link) on this recent news with the back injury...

----
After the Colts ended their offseason work in mid-June, they preferred Taylor remain in Indy while completing his rehab from surgery in January on his right ankle. His rehab forced him to miss all of the on-field work.

But Taylor opted to prepare for training camp by working out with his associates in Arizona.

The bottom line: the Colts clearly were aware of the ankle situation, but Taylor never mentioned a back injury until he reported to Grand Park Sports Complex for his pre-camp physical, according to the source.

Until that time, the team fully expected Taylor to be full-go for camp.
----

I hate to say it, but I just don't believe JT. Chap's always been good.

[YDFL Commish]

Well, Mike Chappell is confident enough in his source that he wrote an article (https://fox59.com/sports/indianapolis-colts-considering-placing-running-back-jonathan-taylor-on-non-football-injury-list-with-back-issue/?utm_source=wxin_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link) on this recent news with the back injury...

----
After the Colts ended their offseason work in mid-June, they preferred Taylor remain in Indy while completing his rehab from surgery in January on his right ankle. His rehab forced him to miss all of the on-field work.

But Taylor opted to prepare for training camp by working out with his associates in Arizona.

The bottom line: the Colts clearly were aware of the ankle situation, but Taylor never mentioned a back injury until he reported to Grand Park Sports Complex for his pre-camp physical, according to the source.

Until that time, the team fully expected Taylor to be full-go for camp.
----

I hate to say it, but I just don't believe JT. Chap's always been good.

I gotta put a little different perspective on this.

If JT says he doesn't have a back injury then I believe him.

Colts would be stupid to put the NFI tag on JT if he was working out to get better and healthier, to play this upcoming season. Don't burn you're fuckin' bridges until the have to be burned.

I do also believe that JT has probably volunteered to be the RB to fall on the sword for the cause. Too bad, cause it ain't going to work out.

The Colts won't even sniff a 2nd round pick for JT in a trade. Whether it's true or not JT is viewed as damaged goods in the NFL. Not because of the drama and hoopla, but coming off injury and then another (reported, but unsubstantiated injury) makes him almost untradeable.

Also in 40+ years of covering the Colts, how many scoops did Chappy really ever have?

[ChaosTheory]

I gotta put a little different perspective on this.

If JT says he doesn't have a back injury then I believe him.

Also in 40+ years of covering the Colts, how many scoops did Chappy really ever have?

You could be right about JT and I couldn't say what Chap has ever broken (don't usually pay attention). As far as I'm aware both he and Stephen Holder have pretty good reputations and both seem to have independently reported the same thing.

Never had JT out to be anything other than a good dude. But he at the very least has some people in his ear that have made him turn heel faster than any player I can think of outside Luck.

Somebody is lying in a significant way. That's quite a story to make up (Colts source) or to deny (Taylor). I can understand JT denying it if it's true. But I don't really understand what the Colts gain by making up the story so I lean toward believing it. I'm sure I could be overlooking something, why do you think?

[Brylok]

Now Chappell is reporting that the Colts are considering placing him on the non football injury list due to a back injury he suffered away from the team. Which would leave them the option of voiding his salary this season and just tolling his contract to next year.

Looks like Jim and/or Ballard are willing to play hardball. Or at least act like they will.

Holy shit. It’s stunning how fast this has fallen apart.

I’m starting to wonder if he’ll ever play another down for the Colts.

Let him rot on the bench and ruin his career like Le'Veon Bell did. I've always liked Taylor, and he's good, but he isn't as good as Bell was. Fuck him. Can Moss catch and block? New HC and OC, new offense, new RB in a new role. We move on, Taylor sits and wastes a year. Good luck with that.

[Hoopsdoc]

You could be right about JT and I couldn't say what Chap has ever broken (don't usually pay attention). As far as I'm aware both he and Stephen Holder have pretty good reputations and both seem to have independently reported the same thing.

Never had JT out to be anything other than a good dude. But he at the very least has some people in his ear that have made him turn heel faster than any player I can think of outside Luck.

Somebody is lying in a significant way. That's quite a story to make up (Colts source) or to deny (Taylor). I can understand JT denying it if it's true. But I don't really understand what the Colts gain by making up the story so I lean toward believing it. I'm sure I could be overlooking something, why do you think?

Yeah, I can’t imagine the Colts would make something like that up out of the blue.

[CletusPyle]

I gotta put a little different perspective on this.

If JT says he doesn't have a back injury then I believe him.

Colts would be stupid to put the NFI tag on JT if he was working out to get better and healthier, to play this upcoming season. Don't burn you're fuckin' bridges until the have to be burned.

I do also believe that JT has probably volunteered to be the RB to fall on the sword for the cause. Too bad, cause it ain't going to work out.

The Colts won't even sniff a 2nd round pick for JT in a trade. Whether it's true or not JT is viewed as damaged goods in the NFL. Not because of the drama and hoopla, but coming off injury and then another (reported, but unsubstantiated injury) makes him almost untradeable.

Also in 40+ years of covering the Colts, how many scoops did Chappy really ever have?

Chap wouldn't make that up in my opinion...a reliable source has told him that JT was complaining of back pain when he reported. My guess is he or his agent figured out later that he may have screwed up telling that, so they have changed their story. I guess it is also possible that the source is lying but Chap is just reporting what he was told. Just my two cents!

[YDFL Commish]

I'm not saying that Chappy or Holder are making shit up. Just that their sources might have part of the story right, but have fucked up on the details of who said what. Other than Irsay the Colts have always been very tight lipped. This is not coming from the Colts.

JT is under contract on a rookie deal, that frankly because of last season, he has not surpassed.

He would not get much more on the open market than his $4 million that he is making this season. He needs to play and perform this season to ever achieve the contract he desires.

[ChoppedWood]

Colts are already taking a media mud bath over this incident, it would be suicide to just make this up- somewhere he has said something to the training staff about a back problem- again as noted, probably as part of this grand scheme, and probably orchestrated by this new agent as part of the contract strategy. Soooo, there's a paper trail or the Colts wouldn't even attempt to go this route, and that paper trail will completely FUCK JT's chances of landing a trade.

Dude, call up your dude and tell him he's fired. That is your ONLY chance at salvaging your chances at getting paid in accordance with your position going forward. Unbelievable.

[Dam8610]

Where did this "Taylor isn't a good receiver" narrative come from? His Wisconsin days? He had 76 catches in his first two seasons and 28 in his 11 games last year. Those aren't CMC numbers, but you're probably looking for more rushing and less receiving out of most RBs comparative to CMC. The pass pro thing is valid, but I've thought he has improved over the years in that regard. He's not elite at pass pro or receiving, but he's not a two down back as I saw some posts suggest.

All that said, Taylor was dumb to request a trade on the eve of training camp, even moreso if he took on this supposed mantle of changing the landscape of RB contracts. He was injured last year, his value is nowhere near its peak of the 2022 offseason. He has a chance to rebuild it to that, but that would require not holding out, not requesting a trade, and not making every possible franchise alienating move in an attempt to expedite your contract by 6 months. If he had just shut up and played, rebuilt his value to near its peak, and got to the offseason, he likely either would've gotten a new contract extension, or if the Colts went the franchise tag route, he would've been entirely justified doing all of this next preseason. As it stands now, he looks like the bad guy and doesn't have the ground to stand on to get his demands met.

[Oldcolt]

Dam that was about as concise and clear a take on this situation I have seen.

[YDFL Commish]

Where did this "Taylor isn't a good receiver" narrative come from? His Wisconsin days? He had 76 catches in his first two seasons and 28 in his 11 games last year. Those aren't CMC numbers, but you're probably looking for more rushing and less receiving out of most RBs comparative to CMC. The pass pro thing is valid, but I've thought he has improved over the years in that regard. He's not elite at pass pro or receiving, but he's not a two down back as I saw some posts suggest.



Frank Reich's usage of him in the passing game?

[JAFF]

10 thoughts on Jonathan Taylor's contract standoff with the Colts, where it goes from here



Ten thoughts on the Jonathan Taylor vs. the Colts soap opera that has become the dominant storyline of training camp:

1. This first week has been quite a year on the Colts beat. We'll get to those leaks and tweets from Sunday night in a moment, but I want to start with Saturday’s first night practice, where two 11-on-11 groups were running drills on the field and I spent it tracking a luxury bus parked outside the fences.

Fans have strong reasons to be excited about this Colts team, with Shane Steichen building a fascinating offensive system around a historic but unproven quarterback like Anthony Richardson.


But rolling back so much of last year's team meant inheriting at least some of its scars. And that's how this Jonathan Taylor contract situation is starting to feel.

2. Taylor met with owner Jim Irsay on a bus for close to an hour for something that wasn’t a contract negotiation and wasn’t really a trade talk but more of a clearing-the-air session. The two emerged, and as Irsay was holding his ground with us in the media, Taylor’s trade request was leaked to NFL Network.


That explained the frosty vibe we’d seen all week from the normally wide-smiling Taylor, with his hood up, arms crossed, face blank, engaging with few teammates. The contract he wanted wasn’t here, but the clock to start practicing and risking injury was.

Indianapolis Colts running back Jonathan Taylor (28) makes his way around the field Friday, July 28, 2023, during an indoor practice at Grand Park Sports Campus in Westfield, Indiana.
RELATED:Jim Irsay holds hour-long bus chat with Jonathan Taylor amid contract and trade requests

3. That mood was never about that ankle surgery in January.

ESPN’s Stephen Holder and Fox59’s Mike Chappell both reported Sunday night that Taylor arrived to camp on Tuesday complaining about a back injury he suffered while training away from the facility, in addition to the repaired ankle.

Taylor is refuting those reports, saying on Twitter he never reported an injury or pain in his back.


MORE: Jonathan Taylor refutes reports that he suffered back injury away from Colts

When it comes to PUP, the recovering ankle qualifies but realistically only for so long. The procedure he had done is called arthroscopic debridement, NFL Network reported. A source with knowledge of these types of procedures told me that it carries a 2-4-week recovery for football players. Even the toughest ankle injuries often take around three months to heal.


It’s been six months.

4. Back injuries are trickier to map out, of course, and we don't even know if this one happened.

If it did, and if it occurred away from the facility, then it could qualify him for the Non-Football Injury List.

That list does not entitle a player to his salary while he’s on it, though those payments don’t come until Week 1. If it were to extend into the regular season, the player must miss four games, which means nearly a quarter of his base salary. If it were to extend to six games, a player in a contract year like Taylor would then have that contract year moved to the next season.

Why was the possibility leaked instead of just making a move?

That’s what we call a threat.

And Taylor's denial only muddies these dirty waters.

It’s not a coincidence that these prickly measures come after that hour-long conversation on the bus. Words aren’t working anymore. They haven’t all offseason, as Taylor hasn’t received a single contract offer. And they certainly haven’t this week, as Irsay and Taylor’s agent, Malki Kawa, have exchanged Twitter shots about the state of the position and Taylor’s lack of an offer.

Indianapolis Colts running back Jonathan Taylor fell to 861 rushing yards last season while missing six games, one year after he won the NFL's rushing title with 1,811 yards.
5. This play also comes one day after Irsay told IndyStar and other outlets, “We will not trade Jonathan Taylor. That is a certainty. Not now, or not in October.”

Taylor went the trade route because it’s one of his final cards to play in a brutal landscape for running backs, even ones as talented as he is. It's not a strong one, because a team trading for him will have to give up enough draft compensation to convince the Colts to diminish their backfield support for Richardson while likely agreeing to the type of extension Taylor wants. With Dalvin Cook and Zeke Elliott available to sign for no draft picks and a lot less money, that’s not an enticing market.

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It becomes even less enticing if the player in question isn’t practicing due to an injury situation. Especially a running back. Especially in 2023.

6. There’s so much noise right now, but this much we know: Taylor and the Colts could not be further apart in their desires and expectations.

Taylor wants a multi-year deal, with security for possible injuries like the high-ankle sprain that caused him to miss six games last year, plus a pay rate that hits market value for his All-Pro and rushing title abilities, which based on current deals would be at least in the $12 million-16 million annual range.

The Colts want him to play this year out to see how he rebounds from the ankle before deciding on anything. They know they have the franchise tag in their hand as free agency approaches. That’s why they hold the aces here, and Taylor is left playing a 10.

Indianapolis Colts running back Jonathan Taylor (28) makes his way around the field Friday, July 28, 2023, during an indoor practice at Grand Park Sports Campus in Westfield, Indiana.
7. I've seen numerous fans ask why Taylor doesn't just play this season out and trust that it'll all work out, the way others have in a contract year. Life as a running back is just tenuous right now. The gold pot doesn't seem to be there at the end of the rainbow because of the franchise tag and a saturated free agent market.

But it's also about risk.

A quick story: In 2015, I was covering the Bears when they spent a fourth-round pick on Michigan State running back Jeremy Langford as a possible heir to Matt Forte. The next fall, with Forte gone, Langford suffered a high-ankle sprain much like Taylor did last season. But he rushed back from the injury, trying to gut it out for the opportunity while hoping it'd all work out like it seemed to in college. He reinjured the ankle, causing structural damage. And he averaged just 3.2 yards per carry that season.

The Bears stumbled into a 1,300-yard rookie running back in Jordan Howard that year, so they cut Langford, and suddenly he had an ankle that scared teams and mediocre film from the weeks of trying to play at a fraction of himself. He signed with four different teams to fight for low-end roster spots but suffered two hamstring and one pectoral injury, and he played just one more game after that 2016 season. These days, as a small-business owner, he regrets not taking more of a business approach of understanding his tape was his resume and his body was his only asset of any power.


Taylor is a much more accomplished and talented player, but that has yet to lead him closer to that pot of gold. He saw last year how hard it was to escape the scrums of giant bodies crowding his ankle behind this offensive line. If he could sniff that pot of gold, maybe he could have the faith to suit up and do it again. But the Colts are making it sound as fictitious as the ones in the fairy tales right now.

8. It’s interesting that the Colts haven’t used that leverage in the form of a lower-ball offer. It would give Taylor a panic move to make if he runs out of cards and grows uncomfortable with the negative spotlight every day at camp. That’s what the Giants used with Saquon Barkley, and he eventually came around to a one-year, $11 million deal that was only slightly above the franchise tag number due to incentives.

The Colts have said they are just letting all contracts play out with a new coaching staff right now, and that appears true, but the inaction invites Taylor to take the volatile route, which is what changing agents in late May and going to Twitter is. Asking Taylor to practice and play 17 more games of a brutal position behind the same starting five offensive linemen he got bottled up and hurt behind last year is obviously going to upset him, especially after he watched Quenton Nelson, Shaquille Leonard, Ryan Kelly, Braden Smith, Kenny Moore II and Nyheim Hines all receive a life raft from the same owner and general manager at this stage in their rookie contracts.

Those emotions are running white-hot now.

9. I had thought a possible compromise could be to schedule a contract meeting in, say, late September, once Taylor has healed up and shown his fit in Steichen’s RPO-heavy backfield with Richardson. If the two can meld their explosive upside into a dual threat to be feared, the Colts should be encouraged to lock that up since all that ultimately matters is raising Richardson’s floor and tapping his upside anyway.

The franchise tag is why they don’t have to, but the animosity has risen so high, you wonder whether promises can work again.

They tried the bus meeting once already. I'm not sure if it has any gas left.

10. It’s safe to say two sides could have handled this so much better. The sub-tweeting, the pouting, the threats and the demands can weigh heavy on any team that is kicking off a new season, but especially one with a rookie head coach and rookie quarterback. I don’t sense we’re close to a resolution, and for as long as that is true, the work of Steichen and Richardson and the energy they create is not going to light the momentum this franchise so desperately needed after last year's went up in flames.

Irsay and Taylor are two good men who have done tremendous acts in and away from the game of football. They’re also intense competitors in a win-now league and billion-dollar industry, staring each other down in the most bizarre time in history for a running back standoff.

Buckle in. We have turbulence now.

[rm1369]

Frank Reich's usage of him in the passing game?

I believe I’m the one that made the the comment Dam is referring to. Reich’s usage of him is certainly part of it. Whether we agree with it or not, Taylor hasn’t been used in that capacity like the players he wants to be paid like - CMC and Kamara. He’s asking for a long term salary in their range. Now he is arguably a better runner than either of those guys, but this is a passing league. Those receptions are deemed more valuable. Maybe Reich was dumb, but I can tell you my eyes say Taylor isn’t dynamic as a receiver (after the catch yes, as a route runner and actually catching no) and he’s still not good as a blocker. Improved but I’m not ready to put ARs health in his hands. My point was if he wants paid like those guys ($16k / yr) then he needs to show that ability. He’s not going to do it on PUP or holding out.

[Oldcolt]

So Irsay says he takes care of his old players. Not one player has spoken up to say this isn't true. Name a player Irsay has screwed financially. He even gave Luck what, 26 million after he left. Taylor is an idiot for his stand.

[Chromeburn]

Sad. Doubt there is a market for what he wants. He and his agent believe he is an extremely valuable asset that deserves to be paid. There shouldn’t be an issue finding a trade partner that will make the Colts a good offer then. Let them go set up a trade. No less than a (expected) mid level 2nd. Otherwise I’d rather just hold him and let him rot.

This whole situation is bizarre. It seems so out of character for JT, he didn’t seem like a diva at all. No team is going to pay a RB 16 million a year, not JT, especially coming off an injury. I actually think the Colts would pay him 12 or 13 a year if he played out his contract and acted in good faith. I don’t know if he is acting on his agents advice or this is really him.

[ChoppedWood]

Just heard on the radio, agent basically has two "prime" time guys under contract. Shaq Leonard, and then some OL I can't even recall the name of and certainly was not someone that I said "oh yeah, he's solid".

Apparently it was between this guy and Rosenhaus and he chose this dude.

At one time Leonard was considered on par with the icons, Butkus, Singletary, Lewis, Willis. He was putting up numbers that were in some cases unheard of. He was rewarded with a $19M per year contract- which was warranted before he was injured. I am sure this guy is looking at that contract he negotiated with this same team and telling JT he can do the same for him, just trust him.

These situations aren't even close to one another:

He was injured before contract year, he had an underwhelming year, and there's no tape to show this ankle injury won't cause him to perform similarly this year to last. No on is paying RB's shit.

How can JT not see this for what it is?

[JAFF]

Just heard on the radio, agent basically has two "prime" time guys under contract. Shaq Leonard, and then some OL I can't even recall the name of and certainly was not someone that I said "oh yeah, he's solid".

Apparently it was between this guy and Rosenhaus and he chose this dude.

At one time Leonard was considered on par with the icons, Butkus, Singletary, Lewis, Willis. He was putting up numbers that were in some cases unheard of. He was rewarded with a $19M per year contract- which was warranted before he was injured. I am sure this guy is looking at that contract he negotiated with this same team and telling JT he can do the same for him, just trust him.

These situations aren't even close to one another:

He was injured before contract year, he had an underwhelming year, and there's no tape to show this ankle injury won't cause him to perform similarly this year to last. No on is paying RB's shit.

How can JT not see this for what it is?

There is $$ involved, which can cause the most level headed individual, to run amok.

[ChaosTheory]

So Irsay says he takes care of his old players. Not one player has spoken up to say this isn't true. Name a player Irsay has screwed financially. He even gave Luck what, 26 million after he left. Taylor is an idiot for his stand.

I think Taylor and other top RB's are kind of correct and I can empathize. I mean, who was the one superstar we had to let go? Edge, the RB. But at some point, you're just bitching that the sky is blue. You can't change it unless you change the game.

This whole situation is bizarre. It seems so out of character for JT, he didn’t seem like a diva at all. No team is going to pay a RB 16 million a year, not JT, especially coming off an injury. I actually think the Colts would pay him 12 or 13 a year if he played out his contract and acted in good faith. I don’t know if he is acting on his agents advice or this is really him.

I have a hard time believing this is not a Don King type of situation. JT is smart, but that would be some truly duplicitous behavior if he's just been fake the whole time.

100% his best route was to play out the contract in good faith.

Just heard on the radio, agent basically has two "prime" time guys under contract. Shaq Leonard, and then some OL I can't even recall the name of and certainly was not someone that I said "oh yeah, he's solid".

Apparently it was between this guy and Rosenhaus and he chose this dude.

At one time Leonard was considered on par with the icons, Butkus, Singletary, Lewis, Willis. He was putting up numbers that were in some cases unheard of. He was rewarded with a $19M per year contract- which was warranted before he was injured. I am sure this guy is looking at that contract he negotiated with this same team and telling JT he can do the same for him, just trust him.

These situations aren't even close to one another:

He was injured before contract year, he had an underwhelming year, and there's no tape to show this ankle injury won't cause him to perform similarly this year to last. No on is paying RB's shit.

How can JT not see this for what it is?

It's beyond the point because we all seem to understand the reality of the RB position, but...

People even complain about Leonard getting paid at his position. And there is merit to it. But I agree with the signing because Leonard was so versatile and making game-altering impacts to games at a rate we haven't seen.

And it was four consecutive All-Pro level seasons (his full rookie deal honored, by the way). That's a far cry from JT who is a year early from honoring his contract and a year late trying to use '21 as leverage.

[Hoopsdoc]

This whole situation is bizarre. It seems so out of character for JT, he didn’t seem like a diva at all. No team is going to pay a RB 16 million a year, not JT, especially coming off an injury. I actually think the Colts would pay him 12 or 13 a year if he played out his contract and acted in good faith. I don’t know if he is acting on his agents advice or this is really him.

Bizarre is a good way to put it.

But you wonder now whether the relationship can ever be fixed.

JT better hope it can because the Colts don’t have to do jack shit. They can literally send his ass home.

[omahacolt]

JT has no leverage.


fuck off dude. go earn your extension and understand the market you are in. be mad about it but you have to understand it

[Discflinger]

This whole situation is bizarre. It seems so out of character for JT, he didn’t seem like a diva at all. No team is going to pay a RB 16 million a year, not JT, especially coming off an injury. I actually think the Colts would pay him 12 or 13 a year if he played out his contract and acted in good faith. I don’t know if he is acting on his agents advice or this is really him.

I was worried of this early on just because he was too perfect.

[Discflinger]

I totally think that players should get more money but this is a selfish move by JT. Players Association is the only way for it to work. And had he not been injured and repeated great numbers last year I could understand the situation much more worthy.

[Hoopsdoc]

JT has no leverage.


fuck off dude. go earn your extension and understand the market you are in. be mad about it but you have to understand it

No one seems to know exactly what JT is asking for. Or I haven’t seen it at least.

All I’ve seen is an anonymous source who said no team in the league, including the colts, will give him what he’s asking for.

I’d say he wants more than McCaffrey. And he’s nuts if that’s true.

[Discflinger]

If JT were to fire his agent and pad up, I'd take him back

[ChoppedWood]

No one seems to know exactly what JT is asking for. Or I haven’t seen it at least.

All I’ve seen is an anonymous source who said no team in the league, including the colts, will give him what he’s asking for.

I’d say he wants more than McCaffrey. And he’s nuts if that’s true.

They said that the agent was intimating that JT should get $20MM per. FO with that- aint happening. $16 is talking level with a settle at probably $14. If they really think $20, and that's what he is going to stand on, man is going to be needing to get a real job real soon to augment the few Mil he has earned to this point.

[Hoopsdoc]

They said that the agent was intimating that JT should get $20MM per. FO with that- aint happening. $16 is talking level with a settle at probably $14. If they really think $20, and that's what he is going to stand on, man is going to be needing to get a real job real soon to augment the few Mil he has earned to this point.

First of all, I agree. If he’s truly demanding 20mm or else, he can get the fuck out. I’d be more pissed at Jim and Ballard if they did that.

Holder thinks that Taylor and his agent believe that there is at least one team out there willing to give him what he wants and that’s why they’re playing hardball.

I find that impossible to believe. It might be a competitor of the Colts trying to create trouble for them but no one is actually going to trade for JT and then give him 20 million dollars a year. He’s FOS if he actually believes that.

[JAFF]

WESTFIELD – Jonathan Taylor is looking in from the outside, and feel free to call that a metaphor. But it’s a literal statement, one of the only accepted truths about the most convoluted development in the NFL – the disconnect between the Colts and their best player on offense.

Taylor isn’t practicing because he’s on the Physically Unable to Perform list, heretofore referred to as the PUP list, like this is a cute story that has lovable characters. It isn’t, and doesn’t. Based on what we know right now – you’ll hear that phrase again soon, right now, and you’ll bolt to attention – there isn’t anybody to love in this story. Nobody is cute here. No puppies.

What’s that line from “For What It’s Worth,” Buffalo Springfield’s anti-establishment song in 1966? Ah yes, here it is:

“Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong.”

Who’s right, in this standoff between Jonathan Taylor and Colts owner Jim Irsay? Nobody. Everybody’s wrong, and it’s possible more than one person is lying.

Only thing you can take to the bank is this: Taylor looks awfully alone right now.

Tens of thousands of Colts fans have been to camp at Grand Park, many of them wearing Taylor’s No. 28 jersey. I’m not telling you anything you’ve not seen already: Jonathan Taylor looking in from the outside, following the running backs around the field, standing behind them, peeking between their helmets or over their shoulders at the action on the field.


Taylor talks to nobody, and nobody talks to Taylor. For more than hour. Every day at camp.

And the people who are talking, well, they’re not making any sense.


Doyel:Jonathan Taylor joins Andrew Luck, Victor Oladipo as star athletes receiving bad advice

Facts are fungible, and someone's lying

Brief recap, for those new to the conversation:

Jonathan Taylor has been the Colts’ best offensive player for three years, and he’d like a contract extension before the fourth and final year of his rookie contract. The Colts tend to give such extensions to deserving players – Taylor is deserving – but this comes at an awkward time, with NFL teams concluding that running backs are replaceable. Add to that Taylor’s ankle surgery in January, the Colts’ uneven results even as he was running for a combined 2,672 yards and 22 touchdowns in 2021-22, and hints of an offseason injury Taylor suffered working out on his own.


Any extension talk is, shall we say, complicated.

And then it gets weird. Irsay goes on Twitter to lament the way NFL running backs are seeking special dispensation in contract negotiations, saying some agents are dealing in “bad faith.” Taylor’s new agent, better known for representing MMA fighters and professional wrestlers, fires back on Twitter again and again.

Then it gets really weird.

Someone from the Colts, and we all suspect the same person, leaks it Sunday night that Taylor injured his back during offseason workouts in Arizona, leaving the team to consider putting him on the Non-Football Injury list (NFI). That would allow the Colts to withhold his salary. That is a declaration of (negotiating) war.

Taylor fires back on Twitter, saying his back is and always has been fine.

Doyel: Colts RB Jonathan Taylor wants to be traded, but what he needs is a new agent


Insider: Taylor refutes reports that he suffered back injury away from Colts

This has become one of the biggest stories of NFL training camp, right up there with Broncos coach Sean Payton trashing former Denver coach Nathaniel Hackett. But the Payton story? That’s child’s play compared to this one. In Payton v. Hackett we know who said what. We know the truth. We can form an opinion and move on.

In Taylor v. Colts, we don’t know much. It’s like we’re in The Matrix, with one side describing the spoon in fine detail, and the other side saying, “There is no spoon.”

Facts are fungible here. I mean, either Taylor injured his back or he didn’t. More to the point, either he injured himself working out in Arizona … or not. Perhaps it’s not a back injury, but something else. Taylor said his back is not an issue. Is he hiding behind the real truth, which is another injury that the Colts “source” – and we all suspect who it is – bungled in the telling?


These are the questions you ask yourself, trying to make sense of things. Then you go to Colts coach Shane Steichen for help, and he does what he does.

He makes it worse.

Indianapolis Colts running back Jonathan Taylor (28) stands near other running backs during drills Monday, July 31, 2023, during training camp at the Grand Park Sports Campus in Westfield, Indiana.
Shane Steichen talks, makes it worse

Quotes taken out of context? Not here. This is exactly what I asked Steichen at camp Monday, with italics provided to clarify the speaker:

Shane, I’m telling him, calling him by name because we’re tight like that, “when you’ve had guys hurt – (Julius) Brents, (Will) Mallory – you say: He’s got an ankle, he’s got a hamstring.

“Yeah yeah yeah,” Shane says, hearing me loud and clear.

Well, what does Jonathan Taylor have?

“What’s that?” Shane says, all of sudden not hearing so well.

What does Taylor have?

“He’s just dealing with something right now,” Shane says, “and I’m going to refrain from getting into all that.”

See what I mean? Something’s up, but nobody will say what. We know Taylor’s ankle surgery in January was minor, that most players are fine within a month, that E.J. Speed had similar offseason surgery and has been on the field since camp started. What’s different about Taylor’s surgery?

See Shane shrug.

The Colts haven’t exactly distinguished themselves with transparency regarding injuries. We all remember Andrew Luck’s shoulder or calf or Os Trigonum, and Darius Leonard’s back or ankle or calf or something. Now they’re doing it again with Taylor.

They’re also doing it with quarterback Anthony Richardson, it should be said. The Colts announced Monday morning that Richardson had undergone a procedure “to correct his nasal septum” Sunday, nothing major, but it kept him out of practice Monday and could sideline him Tuesday as well, Steichen said. Which begs the question: Why now? Richardson was drafted April 27. Nobody knew about the septum issue for 2½ months?

Or did Richardson injure his septum during camp?

Reporter to Steichen: Is it pre-existing?

“Yeah,” said Steichen, who uses yeah as a verbal crutch, not an answer, “it’s something he had to get done in there. Yeah.”

Reporter: Any thoughts of doing it before camp?

“Yeah,” Steichen said, “no, just so he can breathe better. Didn’t want him to come in and not start camp, you know what we mean? So let’s let him get started in camp and do it on this (off) day.”

Sure, why perform this procedure in the 2½ months leading up to camp, giving your franchise QB plenty of time to recover? Much better to do it during camp, when the rookie franchise QB will miss a day or two.

Is that what we’re supposed to believe?

Do you see why it’s hard to trust the Colts with injury news?

Jonathan Taylor looks like an outcast

Here’s the most interesting thing Steichen said about Taylor, and again, we’re not taking this out of context. This is the context:

Reporter: Are you expecting J.T. to play this year?

Steichen: “Right now he’s on this football team. He’s on this football team, and when the medical staff clears him he should be out there.”

Right now…

Terrific.

Meanwhile, with Taylor declining to speak with reporters – players can and often do speak while on injured reserve or the PUP list, as Shaq Leonard has done – reserve RB Deon Jackson faced questions on Taylor’s behalf. Jackson verbally stood by Taylor, calling him “one of my closest friends” and saying of the locker room: “We’re all supportive of him. We’re all rallying around him.”

And maybe they are, behind closed doors. Reporters aren’t allowed into the locker room, so believe Jackson if you’d like.

In public, where Jonathan Taylor’s spat with the Colts is unfolding like a soiled pair of pants, teammates are ignoring him. Nobody talks to Taylor. He talks to nobody. And when practice ended Monday, as some players stayed on the field for extra work and others trotted to the bleachers to sign autographs, Taylor walked off the field by himself, toward the tunnel leading to the locker room, where his teammates are “all supportive of him.”

Maybe so. All I can tell you is what I see, which is Jonathan Taylor walking into the tunnel alone, heading into the shade, into the darkness.

He is going, he is going, he is…


Doyle is so full of shit, he is enjoying every moment

[Racehorse]

This was starting to remind me of the Le'Veon Bell situation. Is it actually going to become that? From Taylor of all guys?

I never saw this coming from him. He was one of the most likeable guys on the team. I wonder why he changed?

[ChoppedWood]

I never saw this coming from him. He was one of the most likeable guys on the team. I wonder why he changed?

Gotta presume it is the influence of the agent.

Same shit with Emmit Smith back in the day. He was regarded as one of the coolest easiest to get along with guys in the world, loved by the locker room, media, front office, smart and unquestioned work ethic- and then BOOM... HEEL TURN FROM HELL based on $$$.

In that case, they got through it and he went on to do great things for them. One can only hope the same reversal happens here- though the shit being thrown around with the threats to put him on NFI thus taking away his income entirely... yikes, hard to see that landing with all wheels down.

[dwilli57]

JT has no leverage.


fuck off dude. go earn your extension and understand the market you are in. be mad about it but you have to understand it

Fuck him. Let him sit on his ass in the locker room all season for all I care. Just another dumb-ass that can't handle fortune and fame.

[CletusPyle]

Doyle is so full of shit, he is enjoying every moment

Doyle is the one making it worse….not Shane Steichen! I didn’t see any thing wrong with coach’s responses.

[Discflinger]

I never saw this coming from him. He was one of the most likeable guys on the team. I wonder why he changed?

Again.. He was TOO perfect

[apballin]

I never saw this coming from him. He was one of the most likeable guys on the team. I wonder why he changed?

You know what the fuck it was… he got married

[Oldcolt]

Time for this billionaire and millionaire to put their egos aside and make a deal. They need each other, we need JT happy and this is over what, 2-3 million bucks? Get him a guaranteed 30 million over the next 3 years and be done with it. Start talking to each other, both of you assholes.

[Brylok]

So apparently Taylor can either retire, sit out and not get paid...and possibly be fined lots of money, or be put on the NFI list and not be paid and not have this year count against his remaining contract years. So I assume he'll play and be a malcontent all season. My question is: how can we fans be expected to cheer for this guy? We want to win and for the team to do well. I'm sure I'll cheer if he breaks off some breakaway TD runs. But this puts fans in a weird predicament. Why can't this team ever have a normal, boring, run up to the season? It's tiring anymore to be honest.

[Oldcolt]

Or they could act like adults, get together and find a way out of this. This relationship isn't irreparable as long as they both need each other. There is time for this to cool off and someone to broker a peace between these two rich pricks.

[Discflinger]

Time for this billionaire and millionaire to put their egos aside and make a deal. They need each other, we need JT happy and this is over what, 2-3 million bucks? Get him a guaranteed 30 million over the next 3 years and be done with it. Start talking to each other, both of you assholes.

Hahaha...I wish it was that easy. A billionaire got slighted I love Jim

[ChoppedWood]

Or they could act like adults, get together and find a way out of this. This relationship isn't irreparable as long as they both need each other. There is time for this to cool off and someone to broker a peace between these two rich pricks.

If this thinking is right that he is carrying the water for the RB's as a collective, then he in essence is the union rep and he can't fold and if so, f-k him for being that naive.

[CletusPyle]

Or they could act like adults, get together and find a way out of this. This relationship isn't irreparable as long as they both need each other. There is time for this to cool off and someone to broker a peace between these two rich pricks.

I think a lot of that depends on whether the Colts believe JT is still the high character guy they thought he was when they drafted him. Money changes people, and having his weasel agent whispering in his ear is not helping! I don't know all the details, I doubt any of us do, but with what I know now, if I was the Colts I'm not sure I would want this guy after this season!

[Discflinger]

Hahaha

[Oldcolt]

Make the contract dependent on incentives so some of his money is tied to his performance.

[ChaosTheory]

Make the contract dependent on incentives so some of his money is tied to his performance.

Probably defeats the purpose as far as Taylor is concerned, right?

[Discflinger]

Right

[CletusPyle]

I think this article is spot on, fair to both sides but in the end realistic about the Colts dilemma.

https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/jonathan-taylor-colts-honest-truth-contract-trade

FTA:
Running the ball is important today with the two-high shell looks defenses are running. But the run game depends on so many people as a whole that the actual running back is only a part of that. Scheme, numbers, and offensive line are all things I think about when it comes to how well you're able to run the ball. If those things are done right, you can place any running back in there and have solid numbers.

Would they be Jonathan Taylor? Absolutely not. But could they give you 80% of his production for only a tenth of the cost? Probably, and it seems like that is a bet the Colts are willing to make.

[Oldcolt]

Probably defeats the purpose as far as Taylor is concerned, right?

You would have to guarantee a good portion of it, probably what he would have made if tagged for two years. Man has earned it and is worth it. Both sides have a point. If JT gets hurt this year he is in the same shoes as Marlon Mack was-and I don't think that is fair. He has given three years to us, is incredibly valuable and we have the cap space. Each side needs to eat some crow and give a little. Maybe I just want to see JT and AR in the same backfield, both of them sell tickets.

[Brylok]

Is Taylor's picture/mural still hanging on the outside of Lucas Oil Stadium? I can't seem to find who is on it now. Last pics I saw were TY and Buckner. One of you locals keep an eye out for Taylor coming down if he is indeed out there.

Google search has become pretty much crap in recent years.

[ChoppedWood]

Ummm Holder just said that the trade demand DID NOT happen post Irsay meeting- that meeting was instead an attempt by Jim to get Taylor to walk back his TRADE DEMAND ON THE FIRST DAY OF CAMP!

Wow, and with that, it's officially FU JT time. That would indicate he took this position BEFORE the RB Zoom call. That would say he wasn't cajoled into this role, that would indicate this dude is just belly aching about the status of the RB pay scale. Well dude, as Dungy said, it sucks, but that's what the pay scale is for your role right now.

Sit him out, let him rot, suck suck suck, 3-14 and Marvin Harrison JR with pick # 3 and restart this whole MF'er!

[omahacolt]

Fuck him. Let him sit on his ass in the locker room all season for all I care. Just another dumb-ass that can't handle fortune and fame.

well that is a little much but i get it

[omahacolt]

but also in all of this, irsay really needs to shut up. let ballard handle things with the team.

[ChaosTheory]

Ummm Holder just said that the trade demand DID NOT happen post Irsay meeting- that meeting was instead an attempt by Jim to get Taylor to walk back his TRADE DEMAND ON THE FIRST DAY OF CAMP!

Wow, and with that, it's officially FU JT time. That would indicate he took this position BEFORE the RB Zoom call. That would say he wasn't cajoled into this role, that would indicate this dude is just belly aching about the status of the RB pay scale. Well dude, as Dungy said, it sucks, but that's what the pay scale is for your role right now.

Sit him out, let him rot, suck suck suck, 3-14 and Marvin Harrison JR with pick # 3 and restart this whole MF'er!

Story gets more disappointing each day. As for the bold... I could go more for an unexpected '95 or '12 run instead.

"I'm for wasting sportswriters' time. So I figured we ought to hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big shitburger to eat!"

[Chromeburn]

I see both sides of the argument. JT carried this offense a lot, he sat and watched other guys get paid at non premium positions early. Extensions for Darius, Q, Smith, Kelly, Grover etc. Also hearing from the staff we take care of our guys, we sign our own etc. So yeah when his time has rolled around it’s crickets. So I understand that it seems unfair, that it’s not what it should be. It sucks, but he is not in a good spot with zero leverage. Going to have to be realistic that RBs are undervalued in todays’s NFL.

Don’t think this agent is helping either. Seems like a moron.

Another thing that is kinda going unnoticed though is the fact Pittman hasn’t received a deal either. I think it’s more a coaching switch than anything. New sheriff in town and guys have to prove themselves in this new system. Steichen needs to see you as a guy that will work in his system. Think a lot of ppl are missing that fact.

[Butter]

Another thing that is kinda going unnoticed though is the fact Pittman hasn’t received a deal either. I think it’s more a coaching switch than anything. New sheriff in town and guys have to prove themselves in this new system. Steichen needs to see you as a guy that will work in his system. Think a lot of ppl are missing that fact.

Somewhere I read that Ballard had informed players they were not doing extensions this off-season until they see how players are fit with the new scheme.

[ChaosTheory]

Mark Schlereth earlier slightly butt-hurt Rich Eisen with his market capitalist take. He didn't give a shit about the plight of RBs. Said none of them were on a podium or having meetings when the fullback position was going extinct. Funny point but shows the nature of the market/game.

Other interesting part was a reminder that his Broncos in the late 90's/early 00's kind of popularized the notion of RBs being replaceable. I hadn't thought about those guys in a while...

Terrell Davis to Olandis Gary to Mike Anderson to Clinton Portis to Reuben Droughns then back to Mike Anderson... 1500yd backs were the running joke about Shanahans Broncos. But RB by committee was also in full force. For example, when Anderson got another shot to start, he barely cracked 1000... But DEN had almost 2600yds rushing that season.

[Hoopsdoc]

I’m also hearing rumblings that JT was unhappy with the way his injury was treated last season but at this point it just seems like sour grapes.

Seems like he’s just throwing anything out there to try and make himself look better.

I think it was Holder who was saying this.

[CletusPyle]

I think it is too late to salvage this relationship....but it really sucks that we lose JT when he can be such an explosive player. Does anybody think there is a solution to this that results in JT remaining a Colt beyond this season?

[ukcolt]

Yes, by paying him what he wants for 3 years. Which has a lot of risks attached to it for the Colts.

In my opinion he is the best pure running back in the league, but he is not as versatile in the passing game as others, so shouldn't be paid the sums of money that the likes of McCaffrey or Kamara have been paid.

The biggest quandary I can see for the Colts, is that with Richardson at QB and the growing pains he is likely to go through, Taylor is far more valuable to the Colts than he is to most other franchises.

[ChaosTheory]

I think it is too late to salvage this relationship....but it really sucks that we lose JT when he can be such an explosive player. Does anybody think there is a solution to this that results in JT remaining a Colt beyond this season?

Perhaps it's irreparable. Although we have seen other ugly situations to varying degrees where the player ultimately stays with their team. People are forgiving. Kenny Moore, for example, wasn't anywhere near this ugly and still a lot of people thought he was done with the Colts. We'll see.

That said, it would have to almost exclusively come from JT and Co. conceding that reality is not on their side. I would hope for some semblance of a united front from the owners/GM's where they look at past examples like Le'Veon Bell, Deshaun Watson, and Lamar Jackson, and don't cave in to this type of thing.

Hopefully make Taylor realize that his best option all along was to bust his ass here in '23 and let the chips fall where they may. Whether that means a new deal here or in FA... or if that means a $13m franchise tag in '24 before he gets a new deal.

Whatever it is, it's better than this for him.

[njcoltfan]

You want to send a message to his pain in the ass agent, put him on the NFI list and sign either Cook or Elliot, then use the franchise tag on him next year. I'm tired reading about these multi million dollar a year athletes complaining about not being paid enough!!

[Brylok]

The thing that gets me is that he's injured and still under contract. What else should he expect? The whole thing makes no sense but, hey, it's the Colts. We've gotten used to things not making sense in recent years.

[ChoppedWood]

The thing that gets me is that he's injured and still under contract. What else should he expect? The whole thing makes no sense but, hey, it's the Colts. We've gotten used to things not making sense in recent years.

Man there is something to be said for this- and also hearing the rumors of JT being "unhappy" about his injury...

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THIS FRANCHISE?

The other day JMV as asking someone- think it might have been Bowen, if this is just a toxic workplace. Whoever it was responded back with the "that's a bit too strong of a word but there's definitely something not quite right on 56th Street".

Well, and yes I am a hater, without question I am, but is the problem fucking Ballard? Timeline matches up.

Peyton - Wayne era, even despite the James situation, and even in the face of the overwhelming difficulty of the Peyton neck situation- the TEAM was harmonious; seemed like everyone was on the same page. Hell even in the Grigson era it didn't seem like there was this constant level of fucking noise around the team, just bad personnel and coaching decisions.

It's always made me wonder- why did Philip just up and quit football? Had a really good season, had a team that looked like it could have made a run that next year, would have been paid a tidy sum, nope, just gonna quit. Hines, Gilmore and it appears Okereke to a lesser extent all made it apparent they wanted to leave this team. Let's not forget, Ballard is also responsible for saying they looked at like 30 minutes of film on Ryan and determined he still had it (wtf- why is he still here????).

Is it just his fixation on "his boys" that is causing a bunch of this? And is Jim's over-reaching last year and now clearly way too fucking far into this shit, a reflection on Ballard just being a stooge and Irsay having to act because Ballard is a GM in name only?

Whatever is the fuel behind this, and I am not in the camp that it is Jim just given some of the past work- with a guy like Edge asking him to do is invocation and rolling with him to the podium- man I just have a hard time believing this is Jim's doings. Whatever it is, this shit needs to be rooted out and gotten rid of. This franchise is better than this petty shit that's been going around here the last several years.

[omahacolt]

You want to send a message to his pain in the ass agent, put him on the NFI list and sign either Cook or Elliot, then use the franchise tag on him next year. I'm tired reading about these multi million dollar a year athletes complaining about not being paid enough!!
and here is the worst sports fan take in the world.

the owners are making billions. do you know the difference between a billion and a million?

JT is one of the best in the world at his position. not a lot of people can do what he does as good or better than him. he is in an argument about his value. faulting him for that is dumb. the way he is handling it is stupid but him wanting to make as much money as he can is smart.

[omahacolt]

Man there is something to be said for this- and also hearing the rumors of JT being "unhappy" about his injury...

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THIS FRANCHISE?

The other day JMV as asking someone- think it might have been Bowen, if this is just a toxic workplace. Whoever it was responded back with the "that's a bit too strong of a word but there's definitely something not quite right on 56th Street".

Well, and yes I am a hater, without question I am, but is the problem fucking Ballard? Timeline matches up.

Peyton - Wayne era, even despite the James situation, and even in the face of the overwhelming difficulty of the Peyton neck situation- the TEAM was harmonious; seemed like everyone was on the same page. Hell even in the Grigson era it didn't seem like there was this constant level of fucking noise around the team, just bad personnel and coaching decisions.

It's always made me wonder- why did Philip just up and quit football? Had a really good season, had a team that looked like it could have made a run that next year, would have been paid a tidy sum, nope, just gonna quit. Hines, Gilmore and it appears Okereke to a lesser extent all made it apparent they wanted to leave this team. Let's not forget, Ballard is also responsible for saying they looked at like 30 minutes of film on Ryan and determined he still had it (wtf- why is he still here????).

Is it just his fixation on "his boys" that is causing a bunch of this? And is Jim's over-reaching last year and now clearly way too fucking far into this shit, a reflection on Ballard just being a stooge and Irsay having to act because Ballard is a GM in name only?

Whatever is the fuel behind this, and I am not in the camp that it is Jim just given some of the past work- with a guy like Edge asking him to do is invocation and rolling with him to the podium- man I just have a hard time believing this is Jim's doings. Whatever it is, this shit needs to be rooted out and gotten rid of. This franchise is better than this petty shit that's been going around here the last several years.

lack of winning and very poor leadership is my guess. i think reich was a good football coach but it doesn't seem to me like he was a great leader. who are the actual team leaders? Leonard? yeah right

[ChoppedWood]

lack of winning and very poor leadership is my guess. i think reich was a good football coach but it doesn't seem to me like he was a great leader. who are the actual team leaders? Leonard? yeah right

Yeah there's definitely been a void. Hopefully AR rapidly ascends to that role. Certainly seems to have that work ethic that establishes a foundation of accountability- which is a great start.

[Brylok]

lack of winning and very poor leadership is my guess. i think reich was a good football coach but it doesn't seem to me like he was a great leader. who are the actual team leaders? Leonard? yeah right

This is, and has been, a huge issue. I think Buckner is the only leader on the whole team. Need more than that.

[Chromeburn]

Pat today said things are easing up a bit. Maybe a little progress has been made.

https://twitter.com/patmcafeeshow/status/1687517884254388224?s=46&t=FvKeTlgkL8ardaxv32vrGQ

[Chromeburn]

Yes, by paying him what he wants for 3 years. Which has a lot of risks attached to it for the Colts.

In my opinion he is the best pure running back in the league, but he is not as versatile in the passing game as others, so shouldn't be paid the sums of money that the likes of McCaffrey or Kamara have been paid.

The biggest quandary I can see for the Colts, is that with Richardson at QB and the growing pains he is likely to go through, Taylor is far more valuable to the Colts than he is to most other franchises.

CMC and kamara are more versatile and can impact across the league. Things out JT though is he can break that big run at any time. It really hurts that two deep shell and FA force them into single deep to defend him. Then you have AR as a runner. I think he stays eventually.

[Colts And Orioles]

and here is the worst sports fan take in the world.

The owners are making billions ...... do you know the difference between a billion and a million ???

JT is one of the best in the world at his position. not a lot of people can do what he does as good or better than him. he is in an argument about his value. faulting him for that is dumb. the way he is handling it is stupid but him wanting to make as much money as he can is smart.





o


"Shaquille O'Neal is rich ,,,,,, the white man that signs his paycheck is wealthy."


Chris Rock, 2003

o

[Racehorse]

and here is the worst sports fan take in the world.

the owners are making billions. do you know the difference between a billion and a million?

JT is one of the best in the world at his position. not a lot of people can do what he does as good or better than him. he is in an argument about his value. faulting him for that is dumb. the way he is handling it is stupid but him wanting to make as much money as he can is smart.

That is the problem with most sports fans. They see everything as black and white, where one side is right and the other is wrong. The problem with that is that both sides are right and wrong at the same time. JT is a rare RB, but that position is devalued at the present. When you have a JT, though, you need to see what a game-changer he is and act accordingly. Yes, Irsay was right about "bad faith", but he was wrong to say it at a time when his RB is looking for an extension. JT is right that he deserves an extension, but he is wrong to ask for it when he has not passed his physical.

[Oldcolt]

People should get what they can, I cannot blame JT for that. Me, I don't feel bad for either of these whiny pricks. One guy is a billionaire who did zilch to earn it and the other guy is complaining that 4.3 million isn't enough money for someone who also did zilch to be born with genetics that almost nobody on the planet has and thinks he 'earned' every penny. They are both here because they won the lottery when they were born (agreed Irsay won a bigger one but JT got gifts from god that people would give their left nut for). I am not pissed at them or anything-I would be doing close to the same thing if I was in their position. I just don't give a shit (I want JT on the team but won't lose any sleep either way) and think that words like 'right and wrong' have almost no place to me with this cat fight between these two (although I have honored every contract I have signed, even though I was stupid and signed some really bad ones that cost me money). My bet is after all of this crap plays out JT is running the ball for the Colts this year and into the future.

[HoosierinFL]

Man there is something to be said for this- and also hearing the rumors of JT being "unhappy" about his injury...

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THIS FRANCHISE?

The other day JMV as asking someone- think it might have been Bowen, if this is just a toxic workplace. Whoever it was responded back with the "that's a bit too strong of a word but there's definitely something not quite right on 56th Street".

Well, and yes I am a hater, without question I am, but is the problem fucking Ballard? Timeline matches up.

Peyton - Wayne era, even despite the James situation, and even in the face of the overwhelming difficulty of the Peyton neck situation- the TEAM was harmonious; seemed like everyone was on the same page. Hell even in the Grigson era it didn't seem like there was this constant level of fucking noise around the team, just bad personnel and coaching decisions.

It's always made me wonder- why did Philip just up and quit football? Had a really good season, had a team that looked like it could have made a run that next year, would have been paid a tidy sum, nope, just gonna quit. Hines, Gilmore and it appears Okereke to a lesser extent all made it apparent they wanted to leave this team. Let's not forget, Ballard is also responsible for saying they looked at like 30 minutes of film on Ryan and determined he still had it (wtf- why is he still here????).

Is it just his fixation on "his boys" that is causing a bunch of this? And is Jim's over-reaching last year and now clearly way too fucking far into this shit, a reflection on Ballard just being a stooge and Irsay having to act because Ballard is a GM in name only?

Whatever is the fuel behind this, and I am not in the camp that it is Jim just given some of the past work- with a guy like Edge asking him to do is invocation and rolling with him to the podium- man I just have a hard time believing this is Jim's doings. Whatever it is, this shit needs to be rooted out and gotten rid of. This franchise is better than this petty shit that's been going around here the last several years.

Winning makes a harmonious team. When a team wins 13-14 games a year, people shut up and appreciate what they got. Losing results in some finger pointing.

[JAFF]

People should get what they can, I cannot blame JT for that. Me, I don't feel bad for either of these whiny pricks. One guy is a billionaire who did zilch to earn it and the other guy is complaining that 4.3 million isn't enough money for someone who also did zilch to be born with genetics that almost nobody on the planet has and thinks he 'earned' every penny. They are both here because they won the lottery when they were born (agreed Irsay won a bigger one but JT got gifts from god that people would give their left nut for). I am not pissed at them or anything-I would be doing close to the same thing if I was in their position. I just don't give a shit (I want JT on the team but won't lose any sleep either way) and think that words like 'right and wrong' have almost no place to me with this cat fight between these two (although I have honored every contract I have signed, even though I was stupid and signed some really bad ones that cost me money). My bet is after all of this crap plays out JT is running the ball for the Colts this year and into the future.

Irsay needs to respond to any questions about contracts as, “no comment”.

[Brylok]

Irsay needs to respond to any questions about contracts as, “no comment”.

Irsay needs to shut up and let the GM handle it.

[ChaosTheory]

I'll preface by saying JT's ankle might be fucked and impact his season. I also suppose JT and Co. could use his ankle as an excuse in the future so he gets his $4.3m and his UFA status without actually playing. I would think the legal fiasco that would cause between JT, the Colts, the doctors, and the union would keep even the dickheads representing JT from pursuing... of course we did just see Lamar Jackson in a dubious injury situation last year amid his contract issues.

But assume that's off the table and his ankle gets healthy. The realistic outcomes for the next few seasons as I see them are:


2023 - JT has to play for us. The only way he can leave is if the Colts trade him or place an RFA tender on him which doesn't seem likely.
If he suits up, I believe human nature, the competitiveness, and the comradery take over for everyone and it flows through the season with the contract on the backburner.

2024 - Assuming JT had a good '23, he could earn an extension offer. Knowing Ballard, it probably won't be what JT wants today. He could trade him, but the Colts probably make out better if they franchise him. They either keep a great player for a relatively cheap RB Tag... or they let him sign an offer from another team and scoop up two 1st-round picks which is more than they would've gotten in any trade.

2025 - I couldn't guess here with all the previous variables... but while a Year-2 FT would be more expensive, it still would be relatively cheap for RB's. So I could see the Colts possibly trying to use it again if JT's been healthy/productive. In which case, repeat of '24: He either signs an extension going into his age-26 season, gives us one more season under the FT, or another team signs him and we get two 1st-round picks.


Beyond that, the FT becomes retarded where the pay is based on the top 5 QB's salaries. But JT is either extended or gone long before this point anyway.

[CletusPyle]

The question to me is, if JT has a great/very good 2023, will the Colts give him an extension? If that is their intention why not sit down with him and make that clear (if they haven't already). Maybe even include some benchmarks and say if you reach these goals we will will offer you a very fair extension and negotiate in good faith!

At some point, unless the Colts don't really have long term plans for JT, they are going to have to make it clear to him that they value him greatly as a player and provided he can stay healthy and reach some agreed upon goals he will receive at least an offer of a very fair and market based extension! That is how most of us get raises or promotions in our work. If he has a great or very good 2023, I just think franchising him is unfair, they should at least make him a fair offer based on his market value....he can choose to reject it, but I believe an offer should be made!

[Oldcolt]

All 'fair' means is 'I like it' and 'unfair' just means I don't like it. Is it 'fair' to ignore a contract that you play under? It is totally 'fair' to franchise him, that is the rules he freely chose to follow when he signed his contract. I have zero sympathy for some kid who is going to make 14 million dollars over the next few years if he stays healthy. It is obscene to bitch about that kind of money when so many have next to nothing. Again fight for as much as you can, we do live in a capitalistic country, but stop whining like you are being insulted because you are underpaid. Get some perspective on life.

[CletusPyle]

All 'fair' means is 'I like it' and 'unfair' just means I don't like it. Is it 'fair' to ignore a contract that you play under? It is totally 'fair' to franchise him, that is the rules he freely chose to follow when he signed his contract. I have zero sympathy for some kid who is going to make 14 million dollars over the next few years if he stays healthy. It is obscene to bitch about that kind of money when so many have next to nothing. Again fight for as much as you can, we do live in a capitalistic country, but stop whining like you are being insulted because you are underpaid. Get some perspective on life.

To me fair means, making an offer that is based on market value and added or subtracted intangibles. Not some bullshit low ball offer like a used car salesman! An offer that JT might reject but not be offended by...anyway, if the Colts have no intention of offering him an extension, regardless of how well he plays this season, then it doesn't even matter....and that is what I think JT believes is going to happen and he is trying to get out ahead of it!

[Brylok]

Hell, the 2023 franchise tag for the RB position pays $10.09M. I imagine it will increase a bit for the 2024 season. All Taylor needs to do is play and make it to next season and he'll make more than double his current wages by being tagged. It's $6M less than McCafferty, but Taylor isn't as good as him, so it's about the right amount. This is useless drama.

[CletusPyle]

Hell, the 2023 franchise tag for the RB position pays $10.09M. I imagine it will increase a bit for the 2024 season. All Taylor needs to do is play and make it to next season and he'll make more than double his current wages by being tagged. It's $6M less than McCafferty, but Taylor isn't as good as him, so it's about the right amount. This is useless drama.

I actually kind of agree with this, but it doesn't really matter if we think 10 million should be plenty for JT, he believes he is worth more and now the question is, how do the Colts go forward with a very unhappy player. I think there are some things they can do to at least get a productive year out of him, just saying to him that the "RB franchise money should be enough for you, so be happy", and that only if you have a great season, is probably not going to produce the maximum effort out of JT this season.

[Ironshaft]

I have already pushed my JT jersey to the back of my closet and will box it up for Goodwill once the Colts trade him away. I still have my Big Q jersey to wear.

Next man up.

That said, I understand his desire to be paid more; it is the same desire everyone has. But I also understand that you honor the committments you have already made (in this case to the CBA).

I hope we can get a mid-round 2nd for him and let someone else pay him what he wants. While his persumed production this year would have helped AR get aclimated to the NFL, it only works if he wants to be here. And he does not.

Honestly, I already felt we were about a 4-5 win team in 2023 and with the loss of JT, our target range will probably drop to around 2-4 wins. When your best offensive weapon is a rookie QB....

Marvin Harrison Jr? Paging Marvin Harrision Jr for the Colts....

Draft the best RB available in 2024 with one of our 2nd round picks...
Draft interior O-Line with the other 2nd round pick...
Draft defense with the whole rest of the draft...

Let's start building for 2024 and beyond.

2023 is now just about getting AR comfortable with the offense, developing his NFL timing and hoping that our young wide receiver and tight ends develop (and CBs for that matter).

[Oldcolt]

I like your attitude Ironshaft (not worried about losing JT-I couldn't agree more on that) but don't agree with you about not wanting him here because he doesn't want to be here. First I don't believe you can get a 2nd for the guy. I doubt anyone is going to give up a 2nd and pay him what he wants. He may not be happy but if he sulks it will cost him millions of dollars long term. I understand that right now things are hot but time tends to cool down tempers, as does the fact of losing millions of dollars if you don't. Life is tough for these prima donas.

AS far as him not wanting to be here I just do not buy that or even care. There have been tons of very tough negotiations in the NFL over the years. Lamar is just the latest example. Both sides may need to give a little but it is doable. Just going to take time.

[Chromeburn]

Man there is something to be said for this- and also hearing the rumors of JT being "unhappy" about his injury...

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THIS FRANCHISE?

The other day JMV as asking someone- think it might have been Bowen, if this is just a toxic workplace. Whoever it was responded back with the "that's a bit too strong of a word but there's definitely something not quite right on 56th Street".

Well, and yes I am a hater, without question I am, but is the problem fucking Ballard? Timeline matches up.

Peyton - Wayne era, even despite the James situation, and even in the face of the overwhelming difficulty of the Peyton neck situation- the TEAM was harmonious; seemed like everyone was on the same page. Hell even in the Grigson era it didn't seem like there was this constant level of fucking noise around the team, just bad personnel and coaching decisions.

It's always made me wonder- why did Philip just up and quit football? Had a really good season, had a team that looked like it could have made a run that next year, would have been paid a tidy sum, nope, just gonna quit. Hines, Gilmore and it appears Okereke to a lesser extent all made it apparent they wanted to leave this team. Let's not forget, Ballard is also responsible for saying they looked at like 30 minutes of film on Ryan and determined he still had it (wtf- why is he still here????).

Is it just his fixation on "his boys" that is causing a bunch of this? And is Jim's over-reaching last year and now clearly way too fucking far into this shit, a reflection on Ballard just being a stooge and Irsay having to act because Ballard is a GM in name only?

Whatever is the fuel behind this, and I am not in the camp that it is Jim just given some of the past work- with a guy like Edge asking him to do is invocation and rolling with him to the podium- man I just have a hard time believing this is Jim's doings. Whatever it is, this shit needs to be rooted out and gotten rid of. This franchise is better than this petty shit that's been going around here the last several years.

I don’t trust the radio guys. Just did a rant on them. Grigson was super toxic. Lots of former players have talked about it. I only read good things about Ballard from former players. Mac says great things about him all the time.I trust him over any of the radio guys.

I listened to that radio broadcast. Seems like the same stretch that Doyle was trying to make. Gilmore wasn’t some longtime Colt, he’s a journeyman, him moving on is not a big deal and that happens on other teams all the time. Hines wasn’t being used, that’s a Reich thing. So that leaves JT who wants a record setting contract. All last year these same radio guys were saying “don’t pay running backs. You don’t pay them in the NFL.” Bowen said it all last summer. Now he sits there the other day and says Taylor deserves a contract. Wtf! It seems more about doing what Ballard isn’t doing.

He then says Peyton had Marvin and he had Glenn so you can’t compare it to the Faulk situation. Huh? Richardson has Quinton Nelson one of the best interior players in the league and Raimann who is continuing to look good. Smith is a top ten RT. Then we got MPJ, Pierce, Downs and a loaded TE room with lots of potential. Faulk was clearly the best player on that team at the time though, as JT is now. It’s a very similar situation. I just don’t get wtf these radio guys are doing. When it seemed Ballard was going to sign JT to a new deal it was “you don’t pay RB’s in today’s league.” Now they have totally reversed coarse?!? And another great tidbit they talk about how the Colts need to be like the Jaguars signing a bunch of mid receivers to huge contracts. Surround your QB with as as many guys as possible, just totally ignoring the whole Urban Meyer debacle. What a clown show of analysis. Seems they just want to create bullshit and drama up.

[Discflinger]

Yep

Let it all play

[Chromeburn]

I have already pushed my JT jersey to the back of my closet and will box it up for Goodwill once the Colts trade him away. I still have my Big Q jersey to wear.

Next man up.

That said, I understand his desire to be paid more; it is the same desire everyone has. But I also understand that you honor the committments you have already made (in this case to the CBA).

I hope we can get a mid-round 2nd for him and let someone else pay him what he wants. While his persumed production this year would have helped AR get aclimated to the NFL, it only works if he wants to be here. And he does not.

Honestly, I already felt we were about a 4-5 win team in 2023 and with the loss of JT, our target range will probably drop to around 2-4 wins. When your best offensive weapon is a rookie QB....

Marvin Harrison Jr? Paging Marvin Harrision Jr for the Colts....

Draft the best RB available in 2024 with one of our 2nd round picks...
Draft interior O-Line with the other 2nd round pick...
Draft defense with the whole rest of the draft...

Let's start building for 2024 and beyond.

2023 is now just about getting AR comfortable with the offense, developing his NFL timing and hoping that our young wide receiver and tight ends develop (and CBs for that matter).

If we do end up with a top pick. There are going to be a ton of QBs that will drive skill talent down the board. Also there are some really good players already projected at the top:

WR Marvin Harrison Jr (obviously)
CB Ga'Quincy 'Kool-Aid' Mckinistry Bama
TE Brock Bowers GA
DE Jared Verse FSU
WR Emeka Egbuka OSU
OT Olumuyiwa Fashnu PSU (would have been the top OT this year)
OT Joe Alt ND

So they should have a good selection of talent to choose from.

[Mr. Session]

If one of these TE's doesn't figure it out, I've been watching the TE from UGA for a couple of years now...

That kid is legit.

[YDFL Commish]

If one of these TE's doesn't figure it out, I've been watching the TE from UGA for a couple of years now...

That kid is legit.

If we have the unfortunate opportunity to draft in the top 10, it damn well not be a TE.

[Mr. Session]

If we have the unfortunate opportunity to draft in the top 10, it damn well not be a TE.

I get it.

He makes it look easy is all I’m saying.

[Chromeburn]

If one of these TE's doesn't figure it out, I've been watching the TE from UGA for a couple of years now...

That kid is legit.

Sites are saying he is a better prospect than Kyle Pitts.

But we do have a lot of young players at TE that need to develop.

[JAFF]

If we have the unfortunate opportunity to draft in the top 10, it damn well not be a TE.

Dallas Clark was a pretty good choice at # 1. John Mackey wasnt too bad.

[Dam8610]

Dallas Clark was a pretty good choice at # 1. John Mackey wasnt too bad.

Clark was the 24th pick, Mackey the 19th, which was a 2nd round pick at the time. You're proving his point to not spend a top 10 pick at the position.

[JAFF]

Clark was the 24th pick, Mackey the 19th, which was a 2nd round pick at the time. You're proving his point to not spend a top 10 pick at the position.

I was thinking of team first round pick.

Mike Ditka was taken with the fifth pick in the draft in 1961. How did that work out? If kelvin winslow’s clone were to show up in the draft, you would be crazy not to take him. Norm Snead was taken in front of him.

Gronk went in the second round, do you think scouts are looking for the same skills in future picks?

[ChaosTheory]

So Taylor is rehabbing away from the team so he'll be ready for the start of the season... I honestly don't know, is that a normal thing? Ankle that jacked up?

Of course Rappaport is going to throw in the "who he'll be playing for is another story" but that's tabloid to me.

[IndyNorm]

So Taylor is rehabbing away from the team so he'll be ready for the start of the season... I honestly don't know, is that a normal thing? Ankle that jacked up?

Of course Rappaport is going to throw in the "who he'll be playing for is another story" but that's tabloid to me.

Yep. Another twist to the story. Will be interesting to find out if his ankle is actually still fucked up or if the Colts are just looking to get him out of the facility.

[IndyNorm]

If we have the unfortunate opportunity to draft in the top 10, it damn well not be a TE.

Don't be surprised if we actually do pick Bowers. He'll probably have the highest RAS score, which will get Ballard all excited. And it looks like Steichen has a TE fetish since we have like 30 of them in camp right now.

[JAFF]

There is a rumor that Kareem Hunt may make a stop in Indy looking for a job

[ChoppedWood]

Yep. Another twist to the story. Will be interesting to find out if his ankle is actually still fucked up or if the Colts are just looking to get him out of the facility.

Radio guys say he told the team he was going to go off campus for rehab. Inference is another chip played in the dispute. If so, fucking NFI his ass right now and let's just move the fuck on. By all accounts we're gonna suck- EVERYONE is out with an "injury" right now, does have a lot of tanking hallmarks. Fuck it tank and get the # 1 and make someone go Ditka for the # 1 for either Williams or Maye and then take Harrison Jr.

[Chromeburn]

So Taylor is rehabbing away from the team so he'll be ready for the start of the season... I honestly don't know, is that a normal thing? Ankle that jacked up?

Of course Rappaport is going to throw in the "who he'll be playing for is another story" but that's tabloid to me.

His ankle should be long healed by now. Not sure what is happening. Did he and the agent try to force an extension knowing that he isn't healthy? And now Hunt is coming in for a workout.

[JAFF]

His ankle should be long healed by now. Not sure what is happening. Did he and the agent try to force an extension knowing that he isn't healthy? And now Hunt is coming in for a workout.

His ankle doesnt matter. If he is pissed off at the team, its best he not be at camp. Let him go, cut him, trade him for some used tackling dummies, or what ever gets him somewhere else. The Edmonton Elks need help, send him there, see how things can be worse

[Oldcolt]

Next man up-I am tired of this shit. If our offense is dependent on JT we are screwed anyway-that isn't a winning formula. really hasn't been for 40 years.

[CletusPyle]

I tried to give JT the benefit of the doubt, I won't make that mistake again! Get him out, take a 3rd if you have to, but end it and move on!

[ChaosTheory]

Part of why I feel JT has to play for us is directly related to us looking at Kareem Hunt...

If they put together a committee of whoever between Moss, Jackson, Drake, a rookie, potentially Hunt... and they couple that with Richardson (who I think will end up starting) to produce a solid running game...

Then JT will have successfully proven the point against himself and his future negotiations. I don't think much of his representation, but JT himself is not dumb. Which makes me think there actually is something up with the ankle.

[Racehorse]

Part of why I feel JT has to play for us is directly related to us looking at Kareem Hunt...

If they put together a committee of whoever between Moss, Jackson, Drake, a rookie, potentially Hunt... and they couple that with Richardson (who I think will end up starting) to produce a solid running game...

Then JT will have successfully proven the point against himself and his future negotiations. I don't think much of his representation, but JT himself is not dumb. Which makes me think there actually is something up with the ankle.

Can you elaborate?

[ChaosTheory]

Can you elaborate?

Which part?

[IndyNorm]

Part of why I feel JT has to play for us is directly related to us looking at Kareem Hunt...

If they put together a committee of whoever between Moss, Jackson, Drake, a rookie, potentially Hunt... and they couple that with Richardson (who I think will end up starting) to produce a solid running game...

Then JT will have successfully proven the point against himself and his future negotiations. I don't think much of his representation, but JT himself is not dumb. Which makes me think there actually is something up with the ankle.

Maybe his agent got JT smoking crack in the offseason b/c acting like a total douche and demanding a big contract extension while you're injured is a pretty stupid way to go about it.

[ChaosTheory]

Maybe his agent got JT smoking crack in the offseason b/c acting like a total douche and demanding a big contract extension while you're injured is a pretty stupid way to go about it.

Good point, neither looks smart. I don't know, though. Something about this faking the injury idea seems funky and is even more harmful to his cause in my eyes.

[Racehorse]

Which part?

JT proving the point against him.

[ChaosTheory]

JT proving the point against him.

Oh, I was just saying argument from JT's perspective is that he can't be reproduced. And if he allows the Colts (by faking injury, aka sitting-in) to put together a RB committee that might even include an available, productive vet (like Hunt), it's a gamble because...

Seems to me there's a good chance that that RB room + Richardson could produce a running game that, while not as good as it would be with healthy JT, could still be plenty capable and effective at a fraction of the cost. You can win with it.

Which would prove the point against JT about what's cost-effective in the RB market. Whereas if he plays hard and looks closer to '21 again, he's in good shape money-wise.

Now, if he's actually injured, nothing he can do. But, if he's faking it as some people speculate, he'd be doing it to himself... which just seems off to me. Of course nothing will surprise me at this point, it's just my intuition which could be wrong.

[Racehorse]

Oh, I was just saying argument from JT's perspective is that he can't be reproduced. And if he allows the Colts (by faking injury, aka sitting-in) to put together a RB committee that might even include an available, productive vet (like Hunt), it's a gamble because...

Seems to me there's a good chance that that RB room + Richardson could produce a running game that, while not as good as it would be with healthy JT, could still be plenty capable and effective at a fraction of the cost. You can win with it.

Which would prove the point against JT about what's cost-effective in the RB market. Whereas if he plays hard and looks closer to '21 again, he's in good shape money-wise.

Now, if he's actually injured, nothing he can do. But, if he's faking it as some people speculate, he'd be doing it to himself... which just seems off to me. Of course nothing will surprise me at this point, it's just my intuition which could be wrong.
Makes sense now. I thought you were saying JT was trying to make that point, but I see now that you weren't.

[HoosierinFL]

Yea it's such a bad gamble. If the Colts offensive line improves, and they start running the ball effectively without JT, then all his leverage evaporates. The only way for him to get paid is to play and play well.

[Oldcolt]

He has no leverage. Good line, don’t NEED him. If the line sucks it won’t matter who is the running back.

[rm1369]

Yea it's such a bad gamble. If the Colts offensive line improves, and they start running the ball effectively without JT, then all his leverage evaporates. The only way for him to get paid is to play and play well.

Agreed. Which is part of the reason I think he has a real injury (not just “holding out”) and it’s potentially a bigger issue. Explains several things including why JT is so adamant to get paid now. The issue likely leaves the possibility of it lingering. Otherwise he and his agent are pretty dumb. His best chance of getting paid is replicating 2 years ago.

[ChaosTheory]

So I guess the rumor now is that Taylor left the team to get stem cell treatment. It's honestly the first plausible explanation for leaving the team and I feel like a dummy for not considering it.

As things go on, with him leaving for a few days and the recent signings by fellow RB's seemingly putting the writing on the wall... I become more steadfast in my belief that Taylor's ankle really is lingering and that he and the Colts will make nice, he'll play, and this season will be the measuring stick for a potential (reasonable) extension.

If he plays well but the extension he wants still scares the Colts, franchise him and then the only way to lose him is to get the two 1st-rounders.

[CletusPyle]

So I guess the rumor now is that Taylor left the team to get stem cell treatment. It's honestly the first plausible explanation for leaving the team and I feel like a dummy for not considering it.

As things go on, with him leaving for a few days and the recent signings by fellow RB's seemingly putting the writing on the wall... I become more steadfast in my belief that Taylor's ankle really is lingering and that he and the Colts will make nice, he'll play, and this season will be the measuring stick for a potential (reasonable) extension.

If he plays well but the extension he wants still scares the Colts, franchise him and then the only way to lose him is to get the two 1st-rounders.

I hope you're right, but Taylor did a lot of damage, to his relationship with the Colts and the fans....but both would be healed pretty quickly if JT can have a successful season and accept his new role!