Andrew and the Hall Of Fame

[Kray007]

Over on Horseshoe Heroes, someone named John Makuch makes his case for Andrew Luck to be inducted into Canton. On some level, he’s right. Luck was a transcendent player; no Quarterback in the hall was more skilled, more tough, more intelligent. He posted elite numbers, and he elevated a mediocre team to playoff contention on sheer force of will.

That having been said, his career wasn’t cut short by some tragic accident or incident. He walked away from the game and left an organization twisting in the wind. Was he hurt? Sure. But he might have decided to sit out the year and rested his body. The Colts were building an Offensive Line that could have, finally, given him protection.

But, for whatever reason, he only played 5 1/2 seasons, and didn’t build the kind of body of accomplishments that propel a player into the hall. When looking back at Luck’s career, Hall Of Fame voters and Colts fans are reduced to talking about would’a, could’a, and should’a.

[JAFF]

Over on Horseshoe Heroes, someone named John Makuch makes his case for Andrew Luck to be inducted into Canton. On some level, he’s right. Luck was a transcendent player; no Quarterback in the hall was more skilled, more tough, more intelligent. He posted elite numbers, and he elevated a mediocre team to playoff contention on sheer force of will.

That having been said, his career wasn’t cut short by some tragic accident or incident. He walked away from the game and left an organization twisting in the wind. Was he hurt? Sure. But he might have decided to sit out the year and rested his body. The Colts were building an Offensive Line that could have, finally, given him protection.

But, for whatever reason, he only played 5 1/2 seasons, and didn’t build the kind of body of accomplishments that propel a player into the hall. When looking back at Luck’s career, Hall Of Fame voters and Colts fans are reduced to talking about would’a, could’a, and should’a.

He did have a lacerated kidney, which could have killed him if he was somewhere outside a big city with available surgeons.

No to the hall of fame. Not from a lack of effort, no AFC titles, No Super Bowl. I loved watching him play, he gave everything. Put him on a team with Polian, Dungy and Mudd he plays 15 years.

Numbers dont lie, he was very good, but the length of a career is lacking

[Racehorse]

Definitely not HOF, but a remarkable player

[ChaosTheory]

Terrell Davis was inducted based on four seasons. Kurt Warner was inducted based on three seasons. I don't particularly agree with those inductions, but the reason for them is the drama of their circumstances. Luck didn't have that.

He was probably on his way... But as little as he played, he would've had to romanticize his way in like those guys.

[Racehorse]

Terrell Davis was inducted based on four seasons. Kurt Warner was inducted based on three seasons. I don't particularly agree with those inductions, but the reason for them is the drama of their circumstances. Luck didn't have that.

He was probably on his way... But as little as he played, he would've had to romanticize his way in like those guys.

I still maintain that he needed three to four more years on the same trajectory. Heck, if he had, I think the Rivers year would have been the year to play in the SB again.

[YDFL Commish]

No Luck does not have HOF credentials. IF Luck deserved to be in the HOF then his best argument would be if Bert Jones were in the HOF, which he isn't and never will be.

[Brylok]

NO

[CletusPyle]

No HOF for Andrew...you don't get in on what might have been!

[JAFF]

Terrell Davis was inducted based on four seasons. Kurt Warner was inducted based on three seasons. I don't particularly agree with those inductions, but the reason for them is the drama of their circumstances. Luck didn't have that.

He was probably on his way... But as little as he played, he would've had to romanticize his way in like those guys.

Ended in Super Bowl wins.

[Colts And Orioles]

Terrell Davis was inducted based on four seasons. Kurt Warner was inducted based on three seasons. I don't particularly agree with those inductions, but the reason for them is the drama of their circumstances. Luck didn't have that.

He was probably on his way... But as little as he played, he would've had to romanticize his way in like those guys.





o


Kurt Warner's induction was not based on just 3 years. In addition to the 3 through-the-roof seasons that he had with the Rams from 1999 through 2001 (2 of which ended in Super Bowl appearances), he also led the Arizona Cardinals to their first world championship/Super Bowl appearance since they were the Chicago Cardinals in 1948......and in the process, he threw for 4,583 yards in the regular season that year. That was in 2008, 9 years after he led the Rams to a Super Bowl in 1999. He followed that up by leading the Cardinals to another division title in 2009 before retiring. Warner had a higher career QB-rating than Luck, and 40% of his career was played prior to 2004, when they changed the rules drastically to help QB's and their receivers to prevent what happened in the 2003 AFC Championship game, when Patriots defenders got away with mugging Colts receivers for the entire 4 quarters.

o

[Mr. Session]

Warner also has a better story.

I'd put $ on him being a better leader too, when it's all said and done.

I never thought Luck really had the right attitude for this.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


Terrell Davis' career and subsequent Hall-of-Fame induction was similar to that of Gale Sayers ...... Sayers had 4 and-a-half incredible seasons for the Chicago Bears from 1965 through 1968 before injuries curtailed his career.


In addition to his exploits as a running back, Sayers was arguably the greatest punt-returner l AND l kick-returner of all time.

Terrell Davis never returned kicks and punts like Sayers did, but he did win 2 Super Bowls, one of which he was the MVP of ...... that said, Davis clearly had a better quarterback, better offenses, and much better overall teams to play on than Sayers did in his prime with the Bears.

o

[ChaosTheory]

o
Kurt Warner's induction was not based on just 3 years. In addition to the 3 through-the-roof seasons that he had with the Rams from 1999 through 2001 (2 of which ended in Super Bowl appearances), he also led the Arizona Cardinals to their first world championship/Super Bowl appearance since they were the Chicago Cardinals in 1948
o

Well, the three years I'm referring to are 1999, 2001, and 2008. In 2000, he missed 5 games, threw 21tds and 18ints, and they lost in the WC so I tend to omit it as memorable (also worth noting that Trent Green came in during his injury and was throwing for 334yds a game which I think is a testament to that overall offensive team/coaching staff).

1999 was memorable because it was a tremendous MVP/SB year with the story. 2001 was another MVP year, despite 22 interceptions, ending in a SB loss. 2008 had no MVP or SB win, but again had the story with that playoff run.

Majority of the rest of his career wasn't just a case of not living up to those years... they were bad. In 2002, Warner went 0-6. Marc Bulger, who would ultimately take Warner's job, went 6-1 that same year (his one loss was a game where he left the game after one pass and Warner played, so honestly Warner was 0-7 and Bulger was 6-0).

'04 with NYG he had 6tds, 4ints, 12 fumbles in 9 games before Eli took over and then he becomes totally irrelevant until that 2008 playoff run.

And why was 2008 such a Cinderella story? A.) Because Warner had become so irrelevant in the first place... and B.) The Cardinals were a meh 9-7 team that got into the playoffs by winning an awful NFC West division.

His final season in '09 was fine. Medicore stats, but got a WC win. All good, but we're talking about what got him into the HOF and this was a blip at best.

[ChaosTheory]

Warner also has a better story.

I'd put $ on him being a better leader too, when it's all said and done.

I never thought Luck really had the right attitude for this.

Despite my post above tearing into his resumé, I actually quite like Kurt Warner as a dude. I really like his story. I even like him on TV.

[ChaosTheory]

o

Terrell Davis never returned kicks and punts like Sayers did, but he did win 2 Super Bowls, one of which he was the MVP of ...... that said, Davis clearly had a better quarterback, better offenses, and much better overall teams to play on than Sayers did in his prime with the Bears.

o

Davis is romanticized as being the key to getting Elway over the hump and finally winning a SB. He was the focal point of those back-to-back championship offenses. I've even read compelling arguments for the 1998 Broncos (Davis' MVP year) being the best offense of all time (not that I agree with that, but a deep dive is certainly compelling).

I get the argument and I do understand the concept of a true star burning twice as bright for half as long... I just have a hard time stacking up four seasons against fellow HOF resumé's.

[Brylok]

Davis is romanticized as being the key to getting Elway over the hump and finally winning a SB.

He and his mom had those Campbell's chunky soup commercials, too. Was a household name for a while.

[YDFL Commish]

He and his mom had those Campbell's chunky soup commercials, too. Was a household name for a while.

What was odd about those is his mom looked like she should be his wife and his wife looked like she should be his mom.

[Colts And Orioles]

Well, the three years I'm referring to are 1999, 2001, and 2008. In 2000, he missed 5 games, threw 21tds and 18ints, and they lost in the WC so I tend to omit it as memorable (also worth noting that Trent Green came in during his injury and was throwing for 334yds a game which I think is a testament to that overall offensive team/coaching staff).

1999 was memorable because it was a tremendous MVP/SB year with the story. 2001 was another MVP year, despite 22 interceptions, ending in a SB loss. 2008 had no MVP or SB win, but again had the story with that playoff run.

Majority of the rest of his career wasn't just a case of not living up to those years... they were bad. In 2002, Warner went 0-6. Marc Bulger, who would ultimately take Warner's job, went 6-1 that same year (his one loss was a game where he left the game after one pass and Warner played, so honestly Warner was 0-7 and Bulger was 6-0).

'04 with NYG he had 6tds, 4ints, 12 fumbles in 9 games before Eli took over and then he becomes totally irrelevant until that 2008 playoff run.

And why was 2008 such a Cinderella story? A.) Because Warner had become so irrelevant in the first place... and B.) The Cardinals were a meh 9-7 team that got into the playoffs by winning an awful NFC West division.

His final season in '09 was fine. Medicore stats, but got a WC win. All good, but we're talking about what got him into the HOF and this was a blip at best.
o


In his last 3 seasons with the Cardinals, Warner had stats of 27-17 TD/INT, 30/14 TD, INT, and 26/14 TD INt. The QB ratings inn those seasons were 89.8, 96.9, and 93.2. I wouldn't call any of them bad, or even mediocre. Also, with the Giants, they were 5-4 with Warner, and 1-6 with rookie Manning ...... Warner had a mediocre Giants team in contention for a playoff spot before they decided to bench him and go with their future QB.

The 2008 team was a Cinderella team because they made it to the Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history, and to the world championship game for the first time since 1948 when they were the Chicago Cardinals, not because Warner had become irrelevant in the first place.

Warner didn't even get a full season with the Giants ...... when he got a legitimate chance with another team (the Cardinals), he flourished in the regular season and in the post-season. He had to wait until Matt Leinart failed in 2006 before taking the reigns (successfully) of the team in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

o

[ChaosTheory]

o


In his last 3 seasons with the Cardinals, Warner had stats of 27-17 TD/INT, 30/14 TD, INT, and 26/14 TD INt. The QB ratings inn those seasons were 89.8, 96.9, and 93.2. I wouldn't call any of them bad, or even mediocre. Also, with the Giants, they were 5-4 with Warner, and 1-6 with rookie Manning ...... Warner had a mediocre Giants team in contention for a playoff spot before they decided to bench him and go with their future QB.

The 2008 team was a Cinderella team because they made it to the Super Bowl for the first time in franchise history, and to the world championship game for the first time since 1948 when they were the Chicago Cardinals, not because Warner had become irrelevant in the first place.

Warner didn't even get a full season with the Giants ...... when he got a legitimate chance with another team (the Cardinals), he flourished in the regular season and in the post-season. He had to wait until Matt Leinart failed in 2006 before taking the reigns (successfully) of the team in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

o

-I mean, we're talking about the Hall of Fame. I don't know that going 5-4 before being benched for a rookie is a high claim. And don't forget... that was part of a six-year stretch where he posted a record of 13-30 before the 2008 season.

-I mentioned "mediocre" regarding his last season which I don't think is unfair. Quick glance shows he was 12th in pass yards, 12th in touchdowns, and 12th in QBR. Maybe not textbook, but in the context of discussing the HOF, I think it's fair.

-As far as the Cinderella story, sure the first appearance is part of that. But we can't deny how much of a big deal was made about Warner's return to prominence. And we all know from the '95 Colts that everybody loves the underdog story...

...So when the 9-7 Cardinals knock off the 11-5 Falcons, 12-4 Panthers, and take the 12-4 Steelers to the limit in the SB... that's the definition of Cinderella story.

[Colts And Orioles]

-I mean, we're talking about the Hall of Fame. I don't know that going 5-4 before being benched for a rookie is a high claim.
o


Being benched was not a sign of Warner's ineptness, but rather a sign that the Giants were choosing to go in a new direction. The fact that he had 3 very good seasons with the Cardinals after that, including a run to the Super Bowl vindicates Warner rather than justifies the Giants' decision to throw the towel in on that season and go with the rookie because of his youth and the team's long-term objectives.

o



-As far as the Cinderella story, sure the first appearance is part of that. But we can't deny how much of a big deal was made about Warner's return to prominence. And we all know from the '95 Colts that everybody loves the underdog story...

...So when the 9-7 Cardinals knock off the 11-5 Falcons, 12-4 Panthers, and take the 12-4 Steelers to the limit in the SB... that's the definition of Cinderella story.
o


Warner's reappearance to prominence with a new team is evidence that he was not a one-hit wonder with the Rams ...... more significantly, that run would not have happened without Warner, as he led the charge.

o

[IndyNorm]

My .02 is that if you purely look at regular season stats then you can maybe make Warner/Davis like case for Luck to be in the HOF. But he doesn't have the playoff success that Warner and Davis did which is probably what got them into the HOF. So IMO Luck's a no for the HOF.

[Colts And Orioles]

My $.02 is that if you purely look at regular season stats then you can maybe make Warner/Davis like case for Luck to be in the HOF. But he doesn't have the playoff success that Warner and Davis did which is probably what got them into the HOF. So IMO Luck's a no for the HOF.





o


I think so, too. Luck's career was somewhat similar to that of l Bert Jones, l as both of them were extremely talented players whose careers were curtailed by injuries.

In fact, l Bill Belichick, l was once asked if their was one quarterback other than Tom Brady in the history of the NFL whom he would choose to lead his team, it would have been none other than Bert Jones.




If Bill Belichick Could Choose Any Quarterback to Lead His Team, He’d Pick Bert Jones

(By Zack Cox)

https://nesn.com/2016/11/if-bill-belichick-could-choose-one-quarterback-to-lead-his-team-he-would-pick/

o

[TheMugwump]

There is no universe where Andrew Luck should be seriously considered for the HoF.

Now, Captain Andrew Luck's Twitter feed, on the other hand, is definitely an all-timer.

[CletusPyle]

He did have a lacerated kidney, which could have killed him if he was somewhere outside a big city with available surgeons.

No to the hall of fame. Not from a lack of effort, no AFC titles, No Super Bowl. I loved watching him play, he gave everything. Put him on a team with Polian, Dungy and Mudd he plays 15 years.

Numbers dont lie, he was very good, but the length of a career is lacking

I don't think this is accurate in Andrew's case....he stayed in the game and his kidney injury never required surgery.

[JAFF]

I don't think this is accurate in Andrew's case....he stayed in the game and his kidney injury never required surgery.

He missed the final seven games that year due to the kidney injury

[CletusPyle]

He missed the final seven games that year due to the kidney injury

:D

https://media.tenor.com/L71AdDBs0lAAAAAC/goal-post-moving.gif