Colts fans question owner Jim Irsay over Peyton Manning's place on list of all-time N

[JAFF]

Colts fans question owner Jim Irsay over Peyton Manning's place on list of all-time NFL players

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/05/20/colts-owner-jim-irsay-leaves-peyton-manning-off-all-time-nfl-players/70239116007/


Everybody has their "Mount Rushmore" or "Top 10" athletes, musicians, etc. But when Jim Irsay discusses NFL players, he raises eyebrows.

When the Indianapolis Colts owner offered his best NFL players, he listed the late Jim Brown first. But one player he left off his "Top 5" prompted double-takes: Peyton Manning.

Instead, Irsay included John Elway, a quarterback the Colts drafted in 1983. Elway refused to play for the Colts, and they traded him to the Denver Broncos, where he won two Super Bowls. Irsay's Top 5: Brown, Tom Brady, Elway, and pass-rushing menaces Deacon Jones and Reggie White.

Irsay followed up by tweeting that Manning was certainly in his Top 10, but that Elway's accomplishments with lesser surrounding talent for much of his career gives him a boost.

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Colts fans gave Irsay's choices some interesting responses.

[Dam8610]

Wow, he needs to sell the team for putting that cheater ahead of the man who made him as rich as he is today.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


I guess Jim Irsay forgot about all of those average teams that Peyton Manning single-handedly carried to the post-season year in and year out, when he played for the Colts between 1999 and 2010 ...... that's something that Tom Brady never had the burden of, because Brady was always surrounded by either great teams, or at least very good teams.

When Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season, the Colts went 2-14 with Dan Orvlovsky, Curtis Painter, and Kerry Collins at quarterback. When Tom Brady missed the entire 2008 season, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell at quarterback ...... if you want to know how valuable a player is, see how the team does without him.

o

[JAFF]

Wow, he needs to sell the team for putting that cheater ahead of the man who made him as rich as he is today.

The Cheater has the numbers and trophies, its an honest evaluation. Elway was the best athletic Qb, he wasnt just an arm. I was in elementary school in LA, Jones was a nightmare. He was as fast as most running backs, and with Olsen at DT, it was a fun D to watch.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


I guess Jim Irsay forgot about all of those average teams that Peyton Manning single-handedly carried to the post-season year in and year out when he played for the Colts between 1999 and 2010 ...... that's something that Tom Brady never had the burden of, because Brady was always surrounded by either great teams, or at least very good teams.

When Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season, the Colts went 2-14 with Dan Orvlovsky, Curtis Painter, and Kerry Collins at quarterback. When Tom Brady missed the entire 2008 season, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell at quarterback ...... if you want to know how valuable a player is, see how the team does without him.

o
o


And you want to hear something very ironic in regard to this subject ???

Patriots coach l Bill Belichickl was once asked if there was one quarterback l BESIDES TOM BRADY l in the history of professional football whom he would want as his quarterback ??? Belichick said none other than l Bert Jones.


I dislike Belichick as much as any other fan of the 31 teams not named the Patriots, but I have to give him props for being objective and creative when asked this question.




If Bill Belichick Could Choose Any Quarterback to Lead His Team, He’d Pick Bert Jones

(By Zack Cox)

https://nesn.com/2016/11/if-bill-belichick-could-choose-one-quarterback-to-lead-his-team-he-would-pick/

o

[Dam8610]

The Cheater has the numbers and trophies, its an honest evaluation. Elway was the best athletic Qb, he wasnt just an arm. I was in elementary school in LA, Jones was a nightmare. He was as fast as most running backs, and with Olsen at DT, it was a fun D to watch.

He cheated, those numbers and trophies are meaningless.

[Oldcolt]

Manning isn't even the best Colt QB ever. Unitas has that.

[omahacolt]

anyone with brady on the mount rushmore is a moron

[ChaosTheory]

He cheated, those numbers and trophies are meaningless.

It aggravates the shit out of me that all of the other owners/teams just pussy out and let it slide "for the league." How do you read about the crazy shit they did and just say fuck it?

[YDFL Commish]

Manning isn't even the best Colt QB ever. Unitas has that.

While I agree, Elway is even more moronic. Does Kravitz has some weird hold over you Jim Irsay?

[JAFF]

He cheated, those numbers and trophies are meaningless.

Yeah, apparently Jim thinks otherwise

[ukcolt]

Elway was a very good QB, someone who elevated the team. He had an absolute rocket for an arm and took risks similar to Favre, but give me Favre over Elway any day of the week.

Montana and Brady were very similar, both incredible, but very much system QB's, this in my eyes is where Manning beats both of those two hands down, in that he could run almost any offense, and read any defence. Marino was probably the best pure thrower of a football i can remember seeing.

Best player i have ever seen though is Lawrence Taylor, he literally changed how football was played. Deion Jackson is a close second.

Best RB of all time was Barry Sanders, with Bo Jackson a close 2nd. Didn't see Jim Brown play, so difficult for me to have him in my own list.

I would also like to say Jackie Slater of the Rams is possibly the best offensive lineman i can ever remember seeing play.

[ChaosTheory]

Best RB of all time was Barry Sanders, with Bo Jackson a close 2nd. Didn't see Jim Brown play, so difficult for me to have him in my own list.

Gotta pump the brakes with Bo Jackson. He was an unreal (albeit embellished) athlete and has some of my favorite highlight runs ever... But even if you extrapolate his small sample size to a full season (and exclude Marcus Allen), we're not talking about crazy numbers or anything. Like 900yd-1300yd hypothetical seasons.

Even if they were real... nothing to sneeze at, but nowhere near 2nd best all-time.

[ukcolt]

He was truly phenomenal, he would rock up with no pre season and just outperform everyone.
Here are his statistics

1987 In 7 games 81-554-4 TD's averaging 6.8 yards a rush., with a long of 91, take the 91 yarder our and he still averaged 5.7 yards a rush.
1988 In 10 games 136-580-3 TD's averaging 4.3 yards. This was a pedestrian season for him, not going to argue.
1989 In 11 games 173-950-4TD's averaging 5.5 yards, with a long of 92, take out the 92 yarder and his average comes down to 5.0.
1990 In 10 games 125-698-5 TD's averaging 5.4 yards per carry, with a long of 88 yards, taking this out, he still averaged 4.9 yards per carry.

To me he was the most exciting running back to watch i have seen alongside Barry Sanders. On any single carry it could be a highlight reel TD, with the truly blazing speed to take it to the house from anywhere on the field. I get that his career was very short due to the hip injury, and i am not saying he is hall of fame worthy, but to me he is right up there with Barry Sanders.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


On a somewhat similar note, I just came across a blog that was asking for their all-time Colts team ...... this was the fantasy that came across my mind, shortly after I read that ......


I would love to have seen a 1977 Bert Jones playing behind Big Jim Parker's 1958 offensive line, with the 1968 Colts defense on the other side of the ball ...... and have a 2006 Adam Vinatieri booting field goals and extra points, while a 2014 Pat McAfee punted the opposition from one side of the field to the other.

o

[Colts And Orioles]

Bo Jackson was truly phenomenal ...... he would rock up with no pre-season, and just outperform everyone.

Here are his statistics ......


1987 ...... In 7 games 81-554-4 TD's averaging 6.8 yards a rush., with a long of 91, take the 91 yarder our and he still averaged 5.7 yards a rush.

1988 ...... In 10 games 136-580-3 TD's averaging 4.3 yards. This was a pedestrian season for him, not going to argue.

1989 ...... In 11 games 173-950-4TD's averaging 5.5 yards, with a long of 92, take out the 92 yarder and his average comes down to 5.0.

1990 ...... In 10 games 125-698-5 TD's averaging 5.4 yards per carry, with a long of 88 yards, taking this out, he still averaged 4.9 yards per carry.


To me, he was the most exciting running back to watch, alongside Barry Sanders. On any single carry he could have given you could a highlight-reel TD, with the truly blazing speed to take it to the house from anywhere on the field. I get that his career was very short due to the hip injury, and I am not saying that he is Hall-of-Fame worthy, but to me he is right up there with Barry Sanders.





o


Just by coincidence, in that same time frame (1987 through 1990), the Colts acquired l Eric Dickerson l from the Rams.


The Eric Dickerson trade in 1987 immediately lifted the Colts to respectability ...... it resulted in records of 9-6, 9-7, and 8-8 in 1987, 1988, and 1989 respectively, and included an AFC East division title and their first playoff appearance since 1977, when the team was still in Baltimore.

Prior to the Eric Dickerson trade, the Colts had 3 consecutive laughingstock seasons in 1984, 1985, and 1986. In that 3-year span, the team amassed an overall record of 12-36 ...... after the Dickerson trade in the early portion of the 1987 season, the Colts' record over their next 3 years was a combined 23-18 with Dickerson, and 26-21 overall (the Colts went 3-3 before the Dickerson trade in 1987.)

The 1986 Colts started out that season at 0-13 ...... if you had told a Colts fan at that point that they would go a combined 26-21 (and/or 23-18, which is what the Colts went after acquiring Dickerson) over the next 3 season from 1987 through 1989, they might have looked at you like you were a person from some alternate reality.

o

[ukcolt]

Dickerson, was another very good player, who was a bit of a workhorse at times, I don't remember him having the lightning speed of either Sanders or Jackson though.

Neither Sanders nor Jackson were TD machines, they were not the sort of player to pound the ball up the middle and earn the tough yards and gain the first downs. For Jackson as was pointed out earlier he had Marcus Allen, who once Jackson reported for duty after his baseball commitments reverted to being the fullback on the team. But that is how good Jackson was, that someone like Marcus Allen had to immediately defer to this uber talented player. Sanders could be a bit more of a boom or bust player, he had so many instances where he was tackled for a loss, but even those could be some of the more exciting plays, making players miss.

[CletusPyle]

Sorry, Irsay owes it to Peyton to have him on that list, there is something going on there that maybe we are not privy to? Maybe Irsay doesn't like the way Manning has sort of identified more with Denver than Indy in his post football life? Or maybe there was some bad blood over choosing Luck over Manning? It's crap like this and the many times he has embarrassed himself and this organization, that keeps me from being a big Irsay guy....from what I have seen of his daughters I can't imagine things getting much better anytime soon!

[JAFF]

Sorry, Irsay owes it to Peyton to have him on that list, there is something going on there that maybe we are not privy to? Maybe Irsay doesn't like the way Manning has sort of identified more with Denver than Indy in his post football life? Or maybe there was some bad blood over choosing Luck over Manning? It's crap like this and the many times he has embarrassed himself and this organization, that keeps me from being a big Irsay guy....from what I have seen of his daughters I can't imagine things getting much better anytime soon!

Irsay put a huge statue of Peyton on the north side of Lucas Oil Stadium, that says enough.

[Mr. Session]

Maybe Irsay doesn't like the way Manning has sort of identified more with Denver than Indy in his post football life? Or maybe there was some bad blood over choosing Luck over Manning? It's crap like this and the many times he has embarrassed himself and this organization, that keeps me from being a big Irsay guy....from what I have seen of his daughters I can't imagine things getting much better anytime soon!

I have my own suspicions here as well.

It is what it is. Irsay thought he was doing the right thing; I did too. Hindsight is 20/20. Manning will be our franchise's historically premier player until he isn't but honestly, I don't care.

He's made it clear he's a Bronco, and I don't fault him for that at all. He let Irsay and Polian know what type of person he was in the draft process, and his attitude in Denver only reflects he is who he always said he was. Within that context, however, let Denver fans defend his rank.