Free agency 2023

[Kray007]

A little more than a month away, and thoughts begin to turn to free agency.

I won’t bore anyone with cold, hard numbers, suffice it to say that the Colts don’t have a lot of cap space. However, as we all know, cap space is easily carved out with a bit of creative bookkeeping.

This year’s class of free agents is not believed to be brimming with elite talent. There are no game changing Receivers or dominant, pass rushing Defensive Ends. If you’re looking for it, there does seem to be help at the Tackle position…just so long as their old team doesn’t lock them down with a new contract or a franchise tag…which seems likely. After all, does anybody believe that the Chiefs will let Orlando Brown slip away?

ESPN’s list of the top 50 free agents include a handful of Linebackers, but they all play inside; and, even if a pass rushing LB was available, I wouldn’t sign him as long as Gus Bradley was running things on that side of the ball. Gus could take Lawrence Taylor, and have him taking turns staying home, setting the edge, or dropping back into zone coverage.

No, the guy I want is Isaac Seumalo, the Eagles RG. I know that the team already has a lot tied up in paying O’Linemen, but two things…the cap is getting ready to rise by a substantial amount, and we’re looking at playing a QB, the next few season, with a bargain basement rookie contract.

Andrew Luck’s experience should offer a cautionary tale about the price of putting a young QB behind a sieve of a Line. If Nelson returns to anywhere near his pre 2003 form, the days of seeng blitzes up the gap would be at an end. If Raimann continues to develop, he and Smith give us bookends at Tackle. Kelly’s a question mark at Center, and that’s reason enough to spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick on the best one we can find in the draft.

[IndyNorm]

Looks like it's time to break out my favorite Ballard meme

https://bestteestore.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Chris-Ballard-fuck-those-free-agents-shirt.png

[ukcolt]

If I was a GM I don't care if it is a current need or not, but I would be drafting an offensive or defensive lineman within the first 3 rounds every single year. Preferably one of each. There are 9 starters to fill out the roster on those two positions and you have to constantly renew the talent with young bodies, to keep the overall costs down. We have 3 high priced veterans on the Oline, which is great in terms of their abilities (although they didn't perform great last year), but you can't have 5 of them, so have to keep evolving from year to year.

Spending money on free agents on the Oline, is an expensive way of building a line, i am ok with the depth being via free agency on sensible contracts.

[Dam8610]

I'm prepared to be disappointed in free agency. The only thing I expect is to cut Matt Ryan.

[JAFF]

I'm prepared to be disappointed in free agency. The only thing I expect is to cut Matt Ryan.

Good place to start

[Brylok]

I'm prepared to be disappointed in free agency. The only thing I expect is to cut Matt Ryan.

And Foles to leave.

[JAFF]

And Foles to leave.

Thats two positive moves

[Brylok]

Thats two positive moves

I'm trying to stay positive this off season. IDK how much success I'll have, but I'm trying...

[ukcolt]

We have little salary cap space, so I am not expecting much at all from free agency, a few mid level guys to bolster the depths, and maybe a starter at RG.

I am not so sure that we will release Foles, if we draft a QB in the 1st round, are we really going to want our only other QB on the roster to be Ehlinger for him to learn from? I guess if we release Foles (not sure of the cap hit if we did this) then we could bring in someone like Dalton or Bridgewater for their experience? But are they any different or better than Foles?

[Dewey 5]

Ballard might have to change is thinking a little bit. Steichen just left an organization with a GM that takes big swings & isn’t afraid to do so.

[Chromeburn]

Ballard might have to change is thinking a little bit. Steichen just left an organization with a GM that takes big swings & isn’t afraid to do so.

Ballard usually tries to do what the coach wants roster wise. Otherwise why hire him?

[Ironshaft]

$224.800m = 2023 NFL Salary Cap
$006.654m = 2022 Colts Cap Rollover
===========
$231.454m = 2023 Colts Cap

$216.321m = Top 51 2023 Colts Contracts
$004.181m = 2023 Dead Money
$001.500m = Spots 52 & 53 on in-season roster
$002.160m = Practice Squad 2023 salary
$003.000m = In-Season “Churn” space
===========
$227.162m = 2023 Colts Obligations

$004.292m = 2023 Colts Free Cap Space

The projected cap hit for the 2023 Colts rookie class, if we stay in the same draft spots, is expected to be just north of $10m assuming our draft picks beat out the lower tier contracts of our 2023 roster. This means that the Colts are “in the hole” by about $6m when all obligations are factored which will not happen until the actual start of the season.

Top Colts Cap Savings if Cut:

$019.750m = DeForest Buckner
$017.205m = Matt Ryan
$010.920m = Stephen Gilmore
$009.625m = Grover Stewart
$007.875m = Ryan Kelly
$007.671m = Kenny Moore
$004.303m = Jonathan Taylor

No one else delivers more than $3.0m cap relief if cut/traded so I will stop there.

The cutting of Matt Ryan is a no brainer and will allow the Colts to have about $11m for signing new or existing free agents.

DeForest Buckner could be a target for a contract restructure to lower his cap hit for the 2023 season.

Currently, the Colts have just over $100m projected available in 2024 and a staggering $275m projected in 2025. Sure, a lot of that will be eaten up by deals made this year and next but while I am not typically a fan of pushing money forward, for a talent like Buckner’s it probably makes sense.

The same could be said to a lesser extent for Stewart. He is in the last year of his current 4 year deal and could be extended with signing bonus taking up much of his salary this season to lower the cap.

My hope is that we find a veteran RG in free agency, draft a rookie OC in the 2nd or 3rd round and let Ryan Kelly walk. Of our veteran O-Linemen, I believe he has been the weakest link, has the least upside remaining and is the oldest.

Between those moves (cutting Ryan, restructuring DeFo, cutting Kelly and potentially restructuring Stewart), the Colts could conceivably free up an additional $25-35m in 2023 cap space depending on how aggressive the restructures are. Plenty of space to sign and re-sign whom they want.

Colts 2023 Unrestricted Free Agents of Note:

DE Yannick Ngakoue
LB Bobby Okereke
WR Parris Campbell

LB E.J. Speed
PK Chase McLaughlin
P Matt Haack
FS Rodney McLeod
DE Tyquan Lewis

I put a space between the top three and bottom five because I think the top three can demand starter level money (low level starter for Campbell but still more than Just Another Guy pay) and the bottom five cannot (or are in a low paid position like kicker/punter).

I think the big decision point is linebacker. Both Okereke and Franklin have shown that they can make the defense run well. Are they as good as Leonard? Nope. But are they nearly as good at a lower price tag? That is the big question. I think we have three linebackers whom have shown the ability to play at starter level ability….and receive starter level money….but only play two of them on most downs. Franklin comes up for contract next season.

I could see Leonard being traded as part of a trade package if the Colts want to trade up to #1 for the QB of their choice. Eberflus loves him and Chicago has a tradition of great LB play. I could see Leonard being dangled out there as trade bait for more picks. And…I could see the Colts allowing either Okereke or Franklin (next season) to sign somewhere else and retaining Leonard. But I will be surprised if the Colts end up paying all three of them.

Bottom line, the Colts have the freedom to pretty much re-sign and sign whom they want, within reason, for the 2023 season. They have tons of free cap space going forward and will be playing with a rookie QB for the next five seasons, hopefully. Ballard has freedom, let’s see what he does with it.

[rm1369]

Ballard usually tries to do what the coach wants roster wise. Otherwise why hire him?

That’s a pretty simplified explanation. You can’t get me to believe Reich WANTED what was done at WR, DE, or LT over the last few years. Yes the GM should prioritize the types of players the coaching staff prefers. But no coach wants the slow roll method of “wait until I can eventually draft a guy” that Ballard employs. That’s simply BS.

[YDFL Commish]

Somebody please explain to me how Matt Pryor started the first 9 games of the season between LT and RG?

Pryor was equally bad at both spots and did not get benched until Reich got fired and Saturday was hired. In Pryor's last game against NE, I believe that he single handedly gave up all 3 of the sacks by Judon, because he couldn't pick up the stunts to the inside.

I know many on here will point out how that is Ballard's fault. If so, then Reich was either just a puppet when it came to game day roster decisions or he was continuing with his mantra that even terrible players can play winning football.

At a minimum Reich had a choice to start Pryor, Raimann or Kelly at LT. He had a choice between Pinter, Pryor and Fries at RG.

So, did he or did he not make those choices?

[Butter]

So, did he or did he not make those choices?

I have not heard anything that Ballard tells the HC who to play, so I am assuming it was Riech's call. If it wasn't I suspect Ballard would also be gone.

[rm1369]

It was most certainly Reich’s call who to start - out of the available options. The issue is the quality of the available options. The team was rotating Raimann in at LT from the very first game. Teams don’t rotate tackles. That tells me they knew the position was an issue and that Raimann wasn’t ready. And in fact his first start against Denver was a disaster. No matter what the team did early on the OL was going to be a fucking disaster. I’ve pointed out for awhile it is part of the reason the team always has slow starts. The coaching staff is required to juggle between bottom level vets and raw, unready rookies. Look at DE previously- not a single fucking player available to the coaching staff that had double digit sacks for their careers! Surprised pass rush was an issue that year? Now it seems like a no brainer that Raimann should have started day one even though he obviously wasn’t ready. And not surprisingly ever single thing I have seen suggests the team needs an upgrade at RG. Why would that be? Because the options last year sucked that’s why. That’s on Ballard.

[Chromeburn]

That’s a pretty simplified explanation. You can’t get me to believe Reich WANTED what was done at WR, DE, or LT over the last few years. Yes the GM should prioritize the types of players the coaching staff prefers. But no coach wants the slow roll method of “wait until I can eventually draft a guy” that Ballard employs. That’s simply BS.

Ok, what did Reich want to do that Ballard didn’t do?

[rm1369]

Ok, what did Reich want to do that Ballard didn’t do?

You know damn well the minute a coach says the team sucks because the GM hasn’t solved QB, or LT, or WR, or DE he’s fired. It’s interesting to discover Ballard has no philosophy of his own - the build completely through the draft mantra was all Reich right?

Ballard is fucking Teflon, now he works for the fucking coach, and makes no decisions. Unfucking real.

[ChaosTheory]

You know damn well the minute a coach says the team sucks because the GM hasn’t solved QB, or LT, or WR, or DE he’s fired. It’s interesting to discover Ballard has no philosophy of his own - the build completely through the draft mantra was all Reich right?

Ballard is fucking Teflon, now he works for the fucking coach, and makes no decisions. Unfucking real.

That wasn't his question.

[rm1369]

That wasn't his question.

No his question is one that you know is impossible to answer. Coaches don’t complain about the moves GMs make. Period. And you both fucking know it. The insinuation is that the Reich wanted the bad options he was given at LT to start the season. A rookie who only played the position for two years in college and a journeyman guard. All I can say is if Reich WANTED the obvious holes left on the roster every year, then yes he deserved to be fired. But that means Ballard is nothing but a puppet and people need to quit giving him credit for the good on the roster, because that would also be all Reich. Right?

I’m curious WTF you guys think a GM does. If he just follows the coaches orders then why is the position so important?

[ChaosTheory]

No his question is one that you know is impossible to answer. Coaches don’t complain about the moves GMs make. Period. And you both fucking know it. The insinuation is that the Reich wanted the bad options he was given at LT to start the season. A rookie who only played the position for two years in college and a journeyman guard. All I can say is if Reich WANTED the obvious holes left on the roster every year, then yes he deserved to be fired. But that means Ballard is nothing but a puppet and people need to quit giving him credit for the good on the roster, because that would also be all Reich. Right?

I’m curious WTF you guys think a GM does. If he just follows the coaches orders then why is the position so important?

True, it is impossible. But you have no problem reading Chris Ballard's mind just like the anti-Reich guys have no problem reading his.

I'll speak for myself and say there is no insinuation that Reich wanted what they ended up with. The only people giving takes like the ones in bold above are fervent anti-Reich guys or anti-Ballard guys. I personally believe they came to the decision together and it just didn't work.

Both parties seem to have a real problem accepting the fact that the HC and GM collaborate on these decisions. One guy claims, "Frank Reich said fuck you to Chris Ballard" and the next guy claims, "Chris Ballard said fuck you to Frank Reich."

You can believe that if you want, but there's no evidence for it.

[rm1369]

True, it is impossible. But you have no problem reading Chris Ballard's mind just like the anti-Reich guys have no problem reading his.

I'll speak for myself and say there is no insinuation that Reich wanted what they ended up with. The only people giving takes like the ones in bold above are fervent anti-Reich guys or anti-Ballard guys. I personally believe they came to the decision together and it just didn't work.

Both parties seem to have a real problem accepting the fact that the HC and GM collaborate on these decisions. One guy claims, "Frank Reich said fuck you to Chris Ballard" and the next guy claims, "Chris Ballard said fuck you to Frank Reich."

You can believe that if you want, but there's no evidence for it.

There is plenty of evidence that Ballard has a team building philosophy - we’ve heard him share it consistently. And the team has largely been built that way. LT last year was handled 100% consistently with that philosophy and with what we’ve seen at other positions - a low level place holder on a minor contract and then a rookie that’s expected to take over. Yet it is repeatedly painted as if that was Reich’s choice. If it was, then yes he deserved to be fired. However in is consistent with what we’ve seen from Ballard and his stated building method.

Yes it is and should be a collaborative effort between coach and GM. Traits and skills at certain positions should largely be dictated by what the coaches want. Straight lining contracts and avoiding free agency is not. And passing off the frustration of Ballard’s slow roll on Reich as Chrome is doing is completely disingenuous.

[YDFL Commish]

There is plenty of evidence that Ballard has a team building philosophy - we’ve heard him share it consistently. And the team has largely been built that way. LT last year was handled 100% consistently with that philosophy and with what we’ve seen at other positions - a low level place holder on a minor contract and then a rookie that’s expected to take over. Yet it is repeatedly painted as if that was Reich’s choice. If it was, then yes he deserved to be fired. However in is consistent with what we’ve seen from Ballard and his stated building method.

Yes it is and should be a collaborative effort between coach and GM. Traits and skills at certain positions should largely be dictated by what the coaches want. Straight lining contracts and avoiding free agency is not. And passing off the frustration of Ballard’s slow roll on Reich as Chrome is doing is completely disingenuous.


Hasn't Ballard always said that you win up front with the O-Line and D-Line?

[rm1369]

Hasn't Ballard always said that you win up front with the O-Line and D-Line?

Yes. And he’s spent a significant amount of resources on both lines. The OL was the most expensive in the league. But he has also stated that you build through the draft and has repeatedly provided little real competition for his draft picks that are made to fill an immediate hole. Look at DE 2 years ago. Cleared out all the experienced vets and handed it to his draft picks - whether they deserved it or not.

I mostly like Ballard’s talent evaluation, but I dislike his team building / roster management.

[rm1369]

Ultimately I don’t want to go down this road again- it’s well established my thoughts on Ballard. However, Chrome’s initial post insinuates Ballard’s frustrating roster building was driven by Reich. I strongly disagree. He’s also indicated Ballard hasn’t pushed because QB hasn’t been settled. I disagree with the philosophy but think that is a little more plausible. We’ll find out.

[Chromeburn]

You know damn well the minute a coach says the team sucks because the GM hasn’t solved QB, or LT, or WR, or DE he’s fired. It’s interesting to discover Ballard has no philosophy of his own - the build completely through the draft mantra was all Reich right?

Ballard is fucking Teflon, now he works for the fucking coach, and makes no decisions. Unfucking real.

I don’t get the weird obsessions with Ballard. Guy isn’t perfect but he does a good job drafting and finding talent. He’s a lot better than Grigson who didn’t seem to warrant this kind of vehemence.

This stuff has a way of leaking out through other channels. So wtf did Ballard do that Reich didn’t want? He got him Rivers, he got him Wentz. It hasn’t been a lack of trying to fix QB. Rivers worked for a year. It’s only been a couple years. He filled LT in the second year of needing one. We have some promising young DEs.

[JAFF]

I don’t get the weird obsessions with Ballard. Guy isn’t perfect but he does a good job drafting and finding talent. He’s a lot better than Grigson who didn’t seem to warrant this kind of vehemence.

This stuff has a way of leaking out through other channels. So wtf did Ballard do that Reich didn’t want? He got him Rivers, he got him Wentz. It hasn’t been a lack of trying to fix QB. Rivers worked for a year. It’s only been a couple years. He filled LT in the second year of needing one. We have some promising young DEs.

Its easy to sit on the internet and use hindsight as a crystal ball

[rm1369]

I don’t get the weird obsessions with Ballard. Guy isn’t perfect but he does a good job drafting and finding talent. He’s a lot better than Grigson who didn’t seem to warrant this kind of vehemence.

This stuff has a way of leaking out through other channels. So wtf did Ballard do that Reich didn’t want? He got him Rivers, he got him Wentz. It hasn’t been a lack of trying to fix QB. Rivers worked for a year. It’s only been a couple years. He filled LT in the second year of needing one. We have some promising young DEs.

Ballard has built the team exactly how he said he would. When I pointed out (several years ago) that in the modern NFL it is needlessly slow I was told I was nuts. Look back at the history and you certainly can’t say I was wrong. The Eagles won a SB, completely rebuilt the team (including changing QBs) and just played in another in the time that Ballard has done what? Slowly filled holes.

Fuck man I hope you are right that all he did was what Reich wanted. If true then I expect a completely different GM. But I don’t think you even really believe that. The team has been built by Ballard’s mold. I’m not sure how anyone can disagree. And I don’t even really knock the guy for QB. I knock him for never filling out the roster when he acquired the possible QB.

[rm1369]

Its easy to sit on the internet and use hindsight as a crystal ball

BS I’m tired of hearing the hindsight argument on any criticism of Ballard. I’ve consistently criticized Ballard’s stated method since his second off season. That’s not hindsight. And I pretty much never criticize him for who he has drafted or who he signed at QB. Everyone is going to miss on players. It’s constantly wasting season after season on development that pisses me off. In 6 years he still hasn’t had a season where he pushed to win. Not fucking once.

[Kray007]

That’s a pretty simplified explanation. You can’t get me to believe Reich WANTED what was done at WR, DE, or LT over the last few years. Yes the GM should prioritize the types of players the coaching staff prefers. But no coach wants the slow roll method of “wait until I can eventually draft a guy” that Ballard employs. That’s simply BS.

With Pierce, Campbell, and Pittman, Ballard has assembled a very nice group of Receivers. The problem was an Offensive Line that couldn’t provide time for routes to develop and a Quarterback whose best years were years ago.

As far as LT is concerned, Ballards initial move, to sign an all pro talent who was coming off a non career threatening injury, was sound. When Fisher didn’t work out, he drafted Raimann and signed Pryor as a stopgap. Judging by the skills Pryor demonstrated as a backup, it wasn’t unreasonable to think he’d be, at least, competent. He wasn’t, Raimann took over, and was playing reasonably well by week 18. In ways, his progress mirrored that of the Giant’s Andrew Thomas.

[Kray007]

You know damn well the minute a coach says the team sucks because the GM hasn’t solved QB, or LT, or WR, or DE he’s fired. It’s interesting to discover Ballard has no philosophy of his own - the build completely through the draft mantra was all Reich right?

Ballard is fucking Teflon, now he works for the fucking coach, and makes no decisions. Unfucking real.

Surely, it’s dawned on you that the only reason that Ballard signed Ryan was because Reich “watched ever throw by Ryan in 2021,” and didn’t see any decline?

[Kray007]

There is plenty of evidence that Ballard has a team building philosophy - we’ve heard him share it consistently. And the team has largely been built that way. LT last year was handled 100% consistently with that philosophy and with what we’ve seen at other positions - a low level place holder on a minor contract and then a rookie that’s expected to take over. Yet it is repeatedly painted as if that was Reich’s choice. If it was, then yes he deserved to be fired. However in is consistent with what we’ve seen from Ballard and his stated building method.

Yes it is and should be a collaborative effort between coach and GM. Traits and skills at certain positions should largely be dictated by what the coaches want. Straight lining contracts and avoiding free agency is not. And passing off the frustration of Ballard’s slow roll on Reich as Chrome is doing is completely disingenuous.

The problem that Ballard, or any GM, has is that it’s almost impossible to find a bookend LT in free agency. Teams just don’t let those guys walk. He probably should have taken Darrisaw in the 1st round of 2031, but Darrisaw fell to the bottom third of the draft based on doubts about his dedication and desire.

[YDFL Commish]

With Pierce, Campbell, and Pittman, Ballard has assembled a very nice group of Receivers. The problem was an Offensive Line that couldn’t provide time for routes to develop and a Quarterback whose best years were years ago.

As far as LT is concerned, Ballards initial move, to sign an all pro talent who was coming off a non career threatening injury, was sound. When Fisher didn’t work out, he drafted Raimann and signed Pryor as a stopgap. Judging by the skills Pryor demonstrated as a backup, it wasn’t unreasonable to think he’d be, at least, competent. He wasn’t, Raimann took over, and was playing reasonably well by week 18. In ways, his progress mirrored that of the Giant’s Andrew Thomas.

Finally someone who's not looking through a narrow lens.

[rm1369]

Surely, it’s dawned on you that the only reason that Ballard signed Ryan was because Reich “watched ever throw by Ryan in 2021,” and didn’t see any decline?

I’m not sure what this means. I’ll state again - I haven’t really criticized Ballard for his decisions at QB. The team could have been competitive with Ryan and a top tier OL. I felt they should have drafted one earlier, but I understand going the vet route. What I don’t understand is going the vet route (especially with Rivers and Ryan) without pushing in on the rest of the roster. To me that’s fucking stupid and a waste.

[rm1369]

With Pierce, Campbell, and Pittman, Ballard has assembled a very nice group of Receivers. The problem was an Offensive Line that couldn’t provide time for routes to develop and a Quarterback whose best years were years ago.

As far as LT is concerned, Ballards initial move, to sign an all pro talent who was coming off a non career threatening injury, was sound. When Fisher didn’t work out, he drafted Raimann and signed Pryor as a stopgap. Judging by the skills Pryor demonstrated as a backup, it wasn’t unreasonable to think he’d be, at least, competent. He wasn’t, Raimann took over, and was playing reasonably well by week 18. In ways, his progress mirrored that of the Giant’s Andrew Thomas.

There is little question that Ballard will EVENTUALLY fill a hole - when he gets around to drafting enough people.

You guys can continue to defend every move he makes. In 6 years Ballard is 45-52-1. His teams have made the playoffs twice, winning a single playoff game. And he has never won a bad AFC South division. But keep telling me how great a GM he is. So good he can’t even be questioned.

When are we hoping for that elusive second playoff win? Year 8? 9 maybe? Maybe a division title by year 10? I’m serious, please someone give me some fucking expectations. Because in year fucking two when I said his methods would lead to mediocrity all of the same people said I was nuts and defended the methods. Here we are drafting 4th after year 6 and you guys are saying the same shit. Please one of you give me some god damn expectations of when Ballard runs out of excuses and is expected to win. After 6 years this is 100% his team. Well, unless you believe Reich was calling all the shots I guess.

[Chromeburn]

Ballard has built the team exactly how he said he would. When I pointed out (several years ago) that in the modern NFL it is needlessly slow I was told I was nuts. Look back at the history and you certainly can’t say I was wrong. The Eagles won a SB, completely rebuilt the team (including changing QBs) and just played in another in the time that Ballard has done what? Slowly filled holes.

Fuck man I hope you are right that all he did was what Reich wanted. If true then I expect a completely different GM. But I don’t think you even really believe that. The team has been built by Ballard’s mold. I’m not sure how anyone can disagree. And I don’t even really knock the guy for QB. I knock him for never filling out the roster when he acquired the possible QB.

Bc the Eagles got lucky and found a QB that no one, not even them, thought would be anything better than a Taysom Hill type. They also build through the lines and spend a lot of capital on them. They have a stacked team. They actually have a very similar build theory to the Colts. Probably why they liked Steichen bc he comes from that theory. I think Reich liked it. Lots of teams have been crap during this period and have stayed crap. Broncos gave their left nut for a short QB who bombed spectacularly.

The past 2 out of 3 drafts the top pick has been a WR. The last 3 out of 4 they have used high picks on receivers. The team hasn’t been a disaster. They’ve been competitive and have battled for the division several times with no QB. Usually when you have no QB you’re the Texans. Even this year they could have easily had better record with some luck, likely would have if they hadn’t fired Reich. But Irsay wanted to break the cycle and now they are finally in position for a young QB.

[YDFL Commish]

Well, unless you believe Reich was calling all the shots I guess.

No that is not how I think of Reich. I think of him as passive and letting others call the shots.

[Chromeburn]

There is little question that Ballard will EVENTUALLY fill a hole - when he gets around to drafting enough people.

You guys can continue to defend every move he makes. In 6 years Ballard is 45-52-1. His teams have made the playoffs twice, winning a single playoff game. And he has never won a bad AFC South division. But keep telling me how great a GM he is. So good he can’t even be questioned.

Wtf are you talking about? People criticize him all the time. Every time I turn on the radio the 1070 guys are picking apart every single decision with hindsight. But they just do it bc they think he is snobby or some other personal bullshit they have with him. As if Polian wasn’t a flaming asshole. Grigson was a prick too, which hurts when you suck at your job as well.

A weird fanatical contingent on Twitter wants him fired and does nothing but talk about him even when the subject is something else. So much so I almost suspect they are hired trolls. The guy gets a little too much criticism lately imo bc not everything he does is bad. This is mostly a reversal from a few years ago when what you said above could be true, but not now. The guy gets a lot of flack.

[IndyNorm]

Ok, what did Reich want to do that Ballard didn’t do?

As rm pointed out it's impossible to answer this, but I'd be willing to bet that Reich would have much rather have had Fisher back at LT than that complete turd Pryor. The OL would have been better from the start and barring injury Raimann would have been given time to develop rather than be thrown to the wolves way too early.

[IndyNorm]

Wtf are you talking about? People criticize him all the time. Every time I turn on the radio the 1070 guys are picking apart every single decision with hindsight. But they just do it bc they think he is snobby or some other personal bullshit they have with him. As if Polian wasn’t a flaming asshole. Grigson was a prick too, which hurts when you suck at your job as well.

A weird fanatical contingent on Twitter wants him fired and does nothing but talk about him even when the subject is something else. So much so I almost suspect they are hired trolls. The guy gets a little too much criticism lately imo bc not everything he does is bad. This is mostly a reversal from a few years ago when what you said above could be true, but not now. The guy gets a lot of flack.

As he should. He's the one who put together that dumpster fire shit storm of a team we had to watch this year.

[IndyNorm]

All joking and arguing aside: Getting the QB decision right is 1A, but fixing the OL has to be 1B. You're not going to be able to develop a young QB if he's getting the shit beat out of him week in and week out.

At a bare minimum we need a starting RG, an OC who can compete with and probably replace Kelly, and some quality OT depth. Ballard likely won't be able to find all of that in the draft, especially if we trade up, so he's going to need to find some of that in FA.

[Kray007]

I’m not sure what this means. I’ll state again - I haven’t really criticized Ballard for his decisions at QB. The team could have been competitive with Ryan and a top tier OL. I felt they should have drafted one earlier, but I understand going the vet route. What I don’t understand is going the vet route (especially with Rivers and Ryan) without pushing in on the rest of the roster. To me that’s fucking stupid and a waste.

Perhaps I should have been more explicit. No one can complain about Ballard failing Frank because he didn’t provide him with a competent Quarterback. Frank Reich hand picked Matt Ryan, and Ballard went out and got him. Similarly, a year earlier, Reich convinced Ballard that Carson Wentz, the same Carson Wentz who was cut loose today, could play the game at a high level. Did the shortcomings on the Offensive Line contribute to Ryan’s utter incompetence? No doubt; but, when a Ferrari runs out of gas on the side of the road, giving it a better set of tires is of little help.

A bad line can explain a lot of things, but the 15 fumbles and 13 interceptions in a dozen games…

[Chromeburn]

As rm pointed out it's impossible to answer this, but I'd be willing to bet that Reich would have much rather have had Fisher back at LT than that complete turd Pryor. The OL would have been better from the start and barring injury Raimann would have been given time to develop rather than be thrown to the wolves way too early.

It’s possible. Usually when you have these marriages end lots of little tidbits come out in the media. Grigson and Pagano was releasing stuff through different guys. Grigson through Dakich, and Pagano through Holder and the newspaper.

But Reich started Pryor forever. That’s not Ballard. It sucks Kelly was hurt early on, but Pryor didn’t really get benched till Saturday came on. But as Kray said, LTs are hard to find. You pretty much have to draft them. They don’t hit FA in their prime usually. Every guy was a stopgap. And Fisher wasn’t signed till December and I believe has been cut again after doing nothing. So maybe. Reich is an analytics guy and the analytics is why they asked Pryor to play tackle in the first place.

[Chromeburn]

As he should. He's the one who put together that dumpster fire shit storm of a team we had to watch this year.

Yup the oline failed and that’s his baby. They put Pryor out there and it sabotaged the line. Guy fell on his sword at the end of the season. I’m good with it. He turned it into a top unit in the first place, more than I can say Grigson ever did.

[rm1369]

Bc the Eagles got lucky and found a QB that no one, not even them, thought would be anything better than a Taysom Hill type. They also build through the lines and spend a lot of capital on them. They have a stacked team. They actually have a very similar build theory to the Colts. Probably why they liked Steichen bc he comes from that theory. I think Reich liked it. Lots of teams have been crap during this period and have stayed crap. Broncos gave their left nut for a short QB who bombed spectacularly.

The past 2 out of 3 drafts the top pick has been a WR. The last 3 out of 4 they have used high picks on receivers. The team hasn’t been a disaster. They’ve been competitive and have battled for the division several times with no QB. Usually when you have no QB you’re the Texans. Even this year they could have easily had better record with some luck, likely would have if they hadn’t fired Reich. But Irsay wanted to break the cycle and now they are finally in position for a young QB.

I completely 100% disagree that Philly has a build theory similar to the Colts. If you mean the idea of building up the lines (in theory) then yes, but that’s where the similarities end. Philly went out and actively improved their roster for this year. They made a conscious push to win this year. Never once has Ballard done that. Not once. And that is my single biggest complaint. You claim they are finally in a position to draft a QB, they could have been earlier if not for going the vet QB route. But the maddening thing is they half assed it. If you sign Rivers you should be in win now mode, Ballard wasn’t. If you trade for Wentz you should be in win now mode. Ballard wasn’t. If you trade for Ryan you should be in win now mode, Ballard wasn’t.

Yes there are teams that have been worse. Does that somehow make Ballard’s team building a success? I’ve never claimed he’s the worst GM in the league. I’m not positive I even want him fired. I’d like to see him wise up and change his antiquated philosophy. It’s just infuriating listen to guys pretend he’s a fucking genius. He’s a good talent evaluator and a mediocre GM. The record proves it no matter how many excuses you guys give. Rebuilds shouldn’t take 8 seasons in the NFL.

[rm1369]

Yup the oline failed and that’s his baby. They put Pryor out there and it sabotaged the line. Guy fell on his sword at the end of the season. I’m good with it. He turned it into a top unit in the first place, more than I can say Grigson ever did.

Dude will you get off Grigson? I think everyone except Dan Dakich knows Grigson sucked. That doesn’t make Ballard good. He needs to be better than “not Grigson”.

[IndyNorm]

Perhaps I should have been more explicit. No one can complain about Ballard failing Frank because he didn’t provide him with a competent Quarterback. Frank Reich hand picked Matt Ryan, and Ballard went out and got him. Similarly, a year earlier, Reich convinced Ballard that Carson Wentz, the same Carson Wentz who was cut loose today, could play the game at a high level. Did the shortcomings on the Offensive Line contribute to Ryan’s utter incompetence? No doubt; but, when a Ferrari runs out of gas on the side of the road, giving it a better set of tires is of little help.

A bad line can explain a lot of things, but the 15 fumbles and 13 interceptions in a dozen games…

Agree, you can't blame Ballard for the QB situation. The only QB who we could have realistically drafted since Luck fucked us was Hurts, and there were a lot of questions on him coming out of college.

You can, however, blame Ballard for the disaster of an OL, absolutely no pass rush for years, a bottom of the league WR group for several years, etc.

[Chromeburn]

I completely 100% disagree that Philly has a build theory similar to the Colts. If you mean the idea of building up the lines (in theory) then yes, but that’s where the similarities end. Philly went out and actively improved their roster for this year. They made a conscious push to win this year. Never once has Ballard done that. Not once. And that is my single biggest complaint. You claim they are finally in a position to draft a QB, they could have been earlier if not for going the vet QB route. But the maddening thing is they half assed it. If you sign Rivers you should be in win now mode, Ballard wasn’t. If you trade for Wentz you should be in win now mode. Ballard wasn’t. If you trade for Ryan you should be in win now mode, Ballard wasn’t.

Yes there are teams that have been worse. Does that somehow make Ballard’s team building a success? I’ve never claimed he’s the worst GM in the league. I’m not positive I even want him fired. I’d like to see him wise up and change his antiquated philosophy. It’s just infuriating listen to guys pretend he’s a fucking genius. He’s a good talent evaluator and a mediocre GM. The record proves it no matter how many excuses you guys give. Rebuilds shouldn’t take 8 seasons in the NFL.

Because they know they have the pieces in place. Good rookie QB on a rookie contract. We don’t have that. Why sell the farm when we don’t have the QB position settled?

Irsay wanted them to compete. Reich didn’t want to go a young QB, otherwise they might have gone after Fields. He built the oline up, then Luck retired. He’s built the defense into a good unit. But until we get QB settled, he’s not going to go all out for a SB and not should he. Cart before the horse notion.

[Chromeburn]

Dude will you get off Grigson? I think everyone except Dan Dakich knows Grigson sucked. That doesn’t make Ballard good. He needs to be better than “not Grigson”.

Grigson is what most GMs are. People tend to forget shitty GMing. And I’ll fucking bring up whatever the fuck I want.

[IndyNorm]

Dude will you get off Grigson? I think everyone except Dan Dakich knows Grigson sucked. That doesn’t make Ballard good. He needs to be better than “not Grigson”.

Well said. Everyone on this board would probably be a better GM than Grigson, but it doesn't mean any of us would actually be any good at it.

[rm1369]

Because they know they have the pieces in place. Good rookie QB on a rookie contract. We don’t have that. Why sell the farm when we don’t have the QB position settled?

Irsay wanted them to compete. Reich didn’t want to go a young QB, otherwise they might have gone after Fields. He built the oline up, then Luck retired. He’s built the defense into a good unit. But until we get QB settled, he’s not going to go all out for a SB and not should he. Cart before the horse notion.

Then don’t go the vet QB route. If you didn’t think you could compete with Rivers, Wentz, or Ryan then they had no business acquiring them. If they thought they could win with them then they had no business treating the rest of the roster like it was a developmental year.

[rm1369]

Grigson is what most GMs are. People tend to forget shitty GMing. And I’ll fucking bring up whatever the fuck I want.

Not a single fucking person here has forgot Grigson.

I notice you’ve replied to a lot of my comments but not the one asking for some kind of bench mark for Ballard. When would Ballard ever be a failure for you? Year 10 with no playoff win? Year 12? Or as long as he’s “not Grigson” will you defend him and his philosophy?

[Chromeburn]

Then don’t go the vet QB route. If you didn’t think you could compete with Rivers, Wentz, or Ryan then they had no business acquiring them. If they thought they could win with them then they had no business treating the rest of the roster like it was a developmental year.

Then wtf are they supposed to do then. Tank the season? Tell the players “hey I know you want to win, but nah.” They made logical decisions, it mostly didn’t work out. They made the playoffs with Rivers. They almost did with a limping Wentz. It’s not like they sold their future for Russel Wilson. They said what they were trying to do. Find an Alex Smith to compete with till they could draft a QB they liked.

[rm1369]

Then wtf are they supposed to do then. Tank the season? Tell the players “hey I know you want to win, but nah.” They made logical decisions, it mostly didn’t work out. They made the playoffs with Rivers. They almost did with a limping Wentz. It’s not like they sold their future for Russel Wilson. They said what they were trying to do. Find an Alex Smith to compete with till they could draft a QB they liked.

Isn’t tanking the season what they did to get in position to get a QB? Why is it acceptable in year 6 but not year 4 or 5? I’m constantly told they’ve had no shot at a QB because they weren’t bad enough. Yet they weren’t good enough for their GM to make a push. Seems like a terrible place to be for 3 seasons.

Yes they made the playoffs with Rivers and almost did with Wentz. Imagine if Ballard had done more with the rest of the roster. Ballard may have more than one playoff win in 6 years.

[Chromeburn]

Not a single fucking person here has forgot Grigson.

I notice you’ve replied to a lot of my comments but not the one asking for some kind of bench mark for Ballard. When would Ballard ever be a failure for you? Year 10 with no playoff win? Year 12? Or as long as he’s “not Grigson” will you defend him and his philosophy?

I really don’t care if you forgot him or not. I’ll bring him up if I think it’s relevant.

My benchmark, when he starts failing in the draft. When he starts getting bad talent. It’s one of the hardest things to do. Some guys have just by-passed it altogether like Les Snead and now the team is hurting bc of it. Or you suck at it and need FA to compensate like Grigson did. Everyone sings the praises of Lynch in San Fran, but since the 2016 off-season the 49’ers have picked in the top ten of the draft 5 out of 7 times. Duke Tobin did little before Burrow. Keim in Arizona still has a job since 2013. Barely hear about some of these average GMs around the league some with longer tenures but suddenly our fanbase can’t shut up about it.

The other is multiple losing seasons in a row unless they are breaking in a young QB and building for a better future.

Basically on his results concerning the roster.

[rm1369]

I really don’t care if you forgot him or not. I’ll bring him up if I think it’s relevant.

My benchmark, when he starts failing in the draft. When he starts getting bad talent. It’s one of the hardest things to do. Some guys have just by-passed it altogether like Les Snead and now the team is hurting bc of it. Or you suck at it and need FA to compensate like Grigson did. Everyone sings the praises of Lynch in San Fran, but since the 2016 off-season the 49’ers have picked in the top ten of the draft 5 out of 7 times. Duke Tobin did little before Burrow. Keim in Arizona still has a job since 2013. Barely hear about some of these average GMs around the league some with longer tenures but suddenly our fanbase can’t shut up about it.

The other is multiple losing seasons in a row unless they are breaking in a young QB and building for a better future.

Basically on his results concerning the roster.

Kind of like the Pacers that you told me to quit bringing up? Gotcha.

Makes sense, it sounds about right. Ballard is not held accountable to actual results, he just has to be not Grigson. As long as he drafts ok the actual results of the TEAM he assembles doesn’t really matter. It explains a lot.

[Chromeburn]

Isn’t tanking the season what they did to get in position to get a QB? Why is it acceptable in year 6 but not year 4 or 5? I’m constantly told they’ve had no shot at a QB because they weren’t bad enough. Yet they weren’t good enough for their GM to make a push. Seems like a terrible place to be for 3 seasons.

Yes they made the playoffs with Rivers and almost did with Wentz. Imagine if Ballard had done more with the rest of the roster. Ballard may have more than one playoff win in 6 years.

Because tanking gets people fired. Players don’t want to do it, coaches don’t want to do it. They didn’t want to do it this year. It took the owner having to take control and sabotage the situation to make it happen. And I’m only half convinced he didn’t do it on purpose. Yeah that’s what happens when you are middle of the pack. Not good enough to win it all, not bad enough to get a top QB.

How pissed would you have been if they sold out to win it all with Carson? You would have been on here complaining that they put the team in cap hell and didn’t even know if the QB was good.

[Chromeburn]

Kind of like the Pacers that you told me to quit bringing up? Gotcha.

Makes sense, it sounds about right. Ballard is not held accountable to actual results, he just has to be not Grigson. As long as he drafts ok the actual results of the TEAM he assembles doesn’t really matter. It explains a lot.

I don’t care if you bring up the pacers.

Yeah sounds like you just want the perfect GM, let me know when you find him.

[Dam8610]

Kind of like the Pacers that you told me to quit bringing up? Gotcha.

Makes sense, it sounds about right. Ballard is not held accountable to actual results, he just has to be not Grigson. As long as he drafts ok the actual results of the TEAM he assembles doesn’t really matter. It explains a lot.

Find a GM in the NFL better at using draft capital to acquire talent. I'll wait.

[rm1369]

I don’t care if you bring up the pacers.

Yeah sounds like you just want the perfect GM, let me know when you find him.

Judging a GM by how his team performs is wanting a perfect GM? You are fucking retarded.

[rm1369]

Find a GM in the NFL better at using draft capital to acquire talent. I'll wait.

I’ve said repeatedly that Ballard is a pretty damn good talent evaluator. Now show me proof he’s good at assembling a team. I’ll wait.

[IndyNorm]

Yup the oline failed and that’s his baby. They put Pryor out there and it sabotaged the line. Guy fell on his sword at the end of the season. I’m good with it. He turned it into a top unit in the first place, more than I can say Grigson ever did.

He owned up to it, but time will tell if he actually learned from it or he was just blowing smoke. Hopefully he learned from it b/c I really don't want to see him do any more ricockulously stupid shit like pay your LG like he's a HOF LT (who BTW probably has back problems, but that's another story) and put someone like Pryor next to him.

[Dam8610]

I’ve said repeatedly that Ballard is a pretty damn good talent evaluator. Now show me proof he’s good at assembling a team. I’ll wait.

You'll have to wait until after the draft because this is the first time he's had the ability to get his QB. This is his test. Either he gets it right and we'll enjoy another 2000s type of run or he gets it wrong and will likely find himself out of a job in the not too distant future.

[rm1369]

Because tanking gets people fired. Players don’t want to do it, coaches don’t want to do it. They didn’t want to do it this year. It took the owner having to take control and sabotage the situation to make it happen. And I’m only half convinced he didn’t do it on purpose. Yeah that’s what happens when you are middle of the pack. Not good enough to win it all, not bad enough to get a top QB.

How pissed would you have been if they sold out to win it all with Carson? You would have been on here complaining that they put the team in cap hell and didn’t even know if the QB was good.

Bull shit. You want to argue that because I criticize something I’ll criticize anything. That is complete and utter BS. It’s a fucking straw man. I shouldn’t be surprised by someone blaming all Ballard’s mistakes on Reich though.

[rm1369]

You'll have to wait until after the draft because this is the first time he's had the ability to get his QB. This is his test. Either he gets it right and we'll enjoy another 2000s type of run or he gets it wrong and will likely find himself out of a job in the not too distant future.

I find it strange that Ballard’s ardent defenders would be fine condemning him based off of one bad choice. Hell even I admit this is at best a 50 / 50 shot. I don’t believe Ballard’s tenure should be determined by one draft choice. Especially considering that by Chrome’s reasoning they only even have this shot thanks to Irsay. Ballard wouldn’t have gotten them here to have this choice.

[IndyNorm]

It’s possible. Usually when you have these marriages end lots of little tidbits come out in the media. Grigson and Pagano was releasing stuff through different guys. Grigson through Dakich, and Pagano through Holder and the newspaper.

But Reich started Pryor forever. That’s not Ballard. It sucks Kelly was hurt early on, but Pryor didn’t really get benched till Saturday came on. But as Kray said, LTs are hard to find. You pretty much have to draft them. They don’t hit FA in their prime usually. Every guy was a stopgap. And Fisher wasn’t signed till December and I believe has been cut again after doing nothing. So maybe. Reich is an analytics guy and the analytics is why they asked Pryor to play tackle in the first place.

I'm not so sure it was analytics that kept Pryor in the lineup. I think Reich is too nice for his own good and wants to give guys every possible chance to succeed even if they're failing miserably and costing his team wins and (in the case of Pryor) getting other players injured.

And if Ballard understood the importance of LT we never would have been in the position to where we were starting someone like Pryor anyway. As I believe you've agree with, Ballard should have actively went about replacing AC when AC first stated he was considering retirement rather than waiting until he actually retired.

[Chromeburn]

Bull shit. You want to argue that because I criticize something I’ll criticize anything. That is complete and utter BS. It’s a fucking straw man. I shouldn’t be surprised by someone blaming all Ballard’s mistakes on Reich though.

I didn’t blame all of Ballard’s mistake on Reich. That’s you taking what I said and reading into it. I asked you to point out what Ballard did that Reich didn’t want and you couldn’t, probably bc no one actually knows. Didn’t stop you from assuming Ballard was doing stuff Reich didn’t like and just running with it.

I think they went about roster decisions together personally. But the depth chart, I think that’s coaching staff territory.

[Chromeburn]

Judging a GM by how his team performs is wanting a perfect GM? You are fucking retarded.

Judging him by his tasks, acquiring talent. Acquiring coaches. He’s not running practices or calling plays on game day. Fans like you want to scream about division titles bc you know he is doing well in other areas. So that’s what you talk about.

[Chromeburn]

He owned up to it, but time will tell if he actually learned from it or he was just blowing smoke. Hopefully he learned from it b/c I really don't want to see him do any more ricockulously stupid shit like pay your LG like he's a HOF LT (who BTW probably has back problems, but that's another story) and put someone like Pryor next to him.

He was playing at a hof level till this season. If you dont want to pay him then don’t draft him. A rookie OT will help offset those costs along the line. Wouldn’t be surprised if the get a rookie OC as well.

[Chromeburn]

I find it strange that Ballard’s ardent defenders would be fine condemning him based off of one bad choice. Hell even I admit this is at best a 50 / 50 shot. I don’t believe Ballard’s tenure should be determined by one draft choice. Especially considering that by Chrome’s reasoning they only even have this shot thanks to Irsay. Ballard wouldn’t have gotten them here to have this choice.

Are you really implying that it’s a negative in Ballard’s book that he didn’t personally engineer their losing season and resulting top five pick?

[rm1369]

I didn’t blame all of Ballard’s mistake on Reich. That’s you taking what I said and reading into it. I asked you to point out what Ballard did that Reich didn’t want and you couldn’t, probably bc no one actually knows. Didn’t stop you from assuming Ballard was doing stuff Reich didn’t like and just running with it.

I think they went about roster decisions together personally. But the depth chart, I think that’s coaching staff territory.

Let’s see:

Ballard might have to change is thinking a little bit. Steichen just left an organization with a GM that takes big swings & isn’t afraid to do so.

Here is your reply to that comment:

Ballard usually tries to do what the coach wants roster wise. Otherwise why hire him?

So are you or are you not suggesting the Ballard’s conservative philosophy is driven by what Reich wanted? Certainly the way I read it.

And you have stated that Reich wanted Rivers (I believe it) but defend Ballard not pushing more on the rest of the roster by saying Ballard wasn’t convinced at QB. So are you suggesting Reich was convinced enough to want Rivers, but he wasn’t convinced he could win with him? That seems a strange argument. Same with Wentz and same with Ryan. Seems strange for a coach to believe in a QB enough to put his reputation on the line to push for him and yet not believe in him enough to try to win with him.

[Chromeburn]

I'm not so sure it was analytics that kept Pryor in the lineup. I think Reich is too nice for his own good and wants to give guys every possible chance to succeed even if they're failing miserably and costing his team wins and (in the case of Pryor) getting other players injured.

And if Ballard understood the importance of LT we never would have been in the position to where we were starting someone like Pryor anyway. As I believe you've agree with, Ballard should have actively went about replacing AC when AC first stated he was considering retirement rather than waiting until he actually retired.

I think it was analytics that put Pryor in that position.

I think it was Reich or the oline coach that kept him there.

I don’t know the reasoning, don’t think they ever explained it. Maybe it was bc they didn’t think Raimann was ready. But it’s all speculation.

I think that’s a little too much to ask. Yeah when AC was hinting at retirement it should be on the radar. But you can’t spend a 1 on a guy that is going to sit as a backup for a couple years. Just on the chance a guy will retire when he says he thinks he will. No one has that kind of leeway with picks. Teams have too many holes and need high picks to contribute early on. They drafted some guys late, but you can’t just draft a tackle high to have him sit there for awhile.

That’s another Kevin Bowen hindsight point he brings up a lot. But I don’t think it’s realistic. LTs are hard to replace.

[Chromeburn]

Let’s see:



Here is your reply to that comment:



So are you or are you not suggesting the Ballard’s conservative philosophy is driven by what Reich wanted? Certainly the way I read it.

And you have stated that Reich wanted Rivers (I believe it) but defend Ballard not pushing more on the rest of the roster by saying Ballard wasn’t convinced at QB. So are you suggesting Reich was convinced enough to want Rivers, but he wasn’t convinced he could win with him? That seems a strange argument. Same with Wentz and same with Ryan. Seems strange for a coach to believe in a QB enough to put his reputation on the line to push for him and yet not believe in him enough to try to win with him.

I’m suggesting the coach says what types of players he wants. Ballard and the scouts then identify what players they think will fit into that style of play. For example, coach says he wants big tall receivers and TEs that can go up and get jump balls and deep balls. Scouting staff says “hey we look at college guys all day so we will tell you who we think is best.” I think when they bring a selection the coaching staff looks at them and weighs in as well. Then they organize their board and draft.

I don’t understand what you’re saying about the QB or whatever you’re trying to catch me in. I think Reich had the final say in what QB’s he wanted to play with. I think Ballard did like Fields and was leaning towards drafting a rookie. But Reich wanted Wentz and there was a logical argument for Wentz, just as there was an argument for Ryan as well. The Ryan move was seen in a positive light around the league. No one was panning the move.

[rm1369]

Are you really implying that it’s a negative in Ballard’s book that he didn’t personally engineer their losing season and resulting top five pick?

No I’m pointing out that it’s strange this is the make or break for Ballard considering 1) no draft pick is a guarantee, but QB is especially prone to failure, and 2) by even your admission this wasn’t Ballard’s plan. It’s great if he hits, but if it wasn’t for Irsay he’d never get the shot. And if he fails, if it wasn’t for Irsay he’d have never been in the position.

But yes, if he never was going to go all in on one of the vet QBs then yes he should have taken his lumps and had a bad year to draft the QB or been aggressive and traded up for one. The cycle of vet QB and not trying to win ended about where anyone could expect - mediocrity. It’s where I make the comparison to the Pacers. They tried to ride that middle ground for years. Not bad enough to draft a difference maker, not good enough to ever compete. Ballard was well on his way. Rescued from himself by Irsay.

[Chromeburn]

No I’m pointing out that it’s strange this is the make or break for Ballard considering 1) no draft pick is a guarantee, but QB is especially prone to failure, and 2) by even your admission this wasn’t Ballard’s plan. It’s great if he hits, but if it wasn’t for Irsay he’d never get the shot. And if he fails, if it wasn’t for Irsay he’d have never been in the position.

But yes, if he never was going to go all in on one of the vet QBs then yes he should have taken his lumps and had a bad year to draft the QB or been aggressive and traded up for one. The cycle of vet QB and not trying to win ended about where anyone could expect - mediocrity. It’s where I make the comparison to the Pacers. They tried to ride that middle ground for years. Not bad enough to draft a difference maker, not good enough to ever compete. Ballard was well on his way. Rescued from himself by Irsay.

Is it fair? Probably not. But that’s the way it works and seems to be trending.

I think Ballard envisioned a trade up scenario like they did with Mahomes when it would come time to do so. Then that QB would be on a decent team. Yeah mediocrity is the same, nba is a little easier to manipulate and tank though than the nfl. Why they instituted the lottery. Lot easier to turn that nba ship around with one player.

[rm1369]

I’m suggesting the coach says what types of players he wants. Ballard and the scouts then identify what players they think will fit into that style of play. For example, coach says he wants big tall receivers and TEs that can go up and get jump balls and deep balls. Scouting staff says “hey we look at college guys all day so we will tell you who we think is best.” I think when they bring a selection the coaching staff looks at them and weighs in as well. Then they organize their board and draft.

I don’t understand what you’re saying about the QB or whatever you’re trying to catch me in. I think Reich had the final say in what QB’s he wanted to play with. I think Ballard did like Fields and was leaning towards drafting a rookie. But Reich wanted Wentz and there was a logical argument for Wentz, just as there was an argument for Ryan as well. The Ryan move was seen in a positive light around the league. No one was panning the move.

We completely agree on the first part. That’s essentially what my reply to your initial comment was saying. Coach and GM collaborate on the types of players a coach prefers and to some degree the importance of positions in certain schemes. However how much to use free agency and how aggressive to be in trades is not typically driven by the coach. The Colts conservative, build by the draft philosophy is Ballard’s and won’t change based on the coach.

The second part is simply pointing out what I see as an inconsistency in your defense of Ballard. It requires Reich to believe in QBs enough to push to acquire them (which I believe) but not enough to think they can win with them now (which I don’t believe). I believe not pushing to win has nothing to do with believing they can win with that QB, I believe it has to do with Ballard sticking to his philosophy. I don’t believe he will ever sacrifice the future for the now.

[IndyNorm]

He was playing at a hof level till this season. If you dont want to pay him then don’t draft him. A rookie OT will help offset those costs along the line. Wouldn’t be surprised if the get a rookie OC as well.

You missed me saying HOF LT money. There's a huge difference between LT and LG. No LG is worth elite LT money. Especially one with back problems.

One of Ballard's big problems is he's spent way too much capital (both cap dollars and draft picks) on less critical positions while going cheap on much more critical positions.

[ChaosTheory]

Judging a GM by how his team performs is wanting a perfect GM? You are fucking retarded.

It's like watching a professional poker player on tv whose vast majority of moves are the right call, but he still loses money overall. There's nine other dudes at the table and he keeps running into a different guy with better cards.

He's making folds that almost nobody else would make, so he loses a little as opposed to most guys who would bust out of the game early. Other poker players will watch that and understand that he's been the best player at the table even though he's lost $10k tonight.

...And then 1070 listener comes along and says, "This guys sucks. That other dude went all-in with a K-J off suit and won $30k tonight."

[Chromeburn]

We completely agree on the first part. That’s essentially what my reply to your initial comment was saying. Coach and GM collaborate on the types of players a coach prefers and to some degree the importance of positions in certain schemes. However how much to use free agency and how aggressive to be in trades is not typically driven by the coach. The Colts conservative, build by the draft philosophy is Ballard’s and won’t change based on the coach.

The second part is simply pointing out what I see as an inconsistency in your defense of Ballard. It requires Reich to believe in QBs enough to push to acquire them (which I believe) but not enough to think they can win with them now (which I don’t believe). I believe not pushing to win has nothing to do with believing they can win with that QB, I believe it has to do with Ballard sticking to his philosophy. I don’t believe he will ever sacrifice the future for the now.


They might have believed if they had more than one year with someone, but they never got one. I don’t know how you can argue for going all out on a SB run when you don’t know who your starting QB next year is going to be.

[rm1369]

It's like watching a professional poker player on tv whose vast majority of moves are the right call, but he still loses money overall. There's nine other dudes at the table and he keeps running into a different guy with better cards.

He's making folds that almost nobody else would make, so he loses a little as opposed to most guys who would bust out of the game early. Other poker players will watch that and understand that he's been the best player at the table even though he's lost $10k tonight.

...And then 1070 listener comes along and says, "This guys sucks. That other dude went all-in with a K-J off suit and won $30k tonight."

Good poker players win more than they lose. Any individual hand or even night may be a loser, but if you are good you will win more than you lose. A good GMs teams should win. That that is even debatable is ridiculous.

[Chromeburn]

You missed me saying HOF LT money. There's a huge difference between LT and LG. No LG is worth elite LT money. Especially one with back problems.

One of Ballard's big problems is he's spent way too much capital (both cap dollars and draft picks) on less critical positions while going cheap on much more critical positions.

I didn’t miss it. It’s 3 million more than Jenkins, the previously highest paid guard, and 3 million less than Williams the LT. Everyone knew this would be an increase in guard benchmark. The cap will go up. LT prices will go up as the next franchise LT deal sets a new benchmark.

This is another talking point I hear on 1070 all the time. Less critical positions. You can get rid of them, (lb, rb, G, DT, etc) but are you going to replace them with equivalent talent at a ‘critical’ position? If no, then you are simply becoming a worse team bc you don’t think that position group should be paid well. Then all you have is money and a less talented team. Are those signings keeping them from an obtaining a player at a critical position?

[rm1369]

They might have believed if they had more than one year with someone, but they never got one. I don’t know how you can argue for going all out on a SB run when you don’t know who your starting QB next year is going to be.

If you weren’t trying to win with Rivers or Ryan I see no point in acquiring them. Most people assumed 2 years for each of them. So if the first year is a prove it year as you suggest, then the second year would put you in the situation you just described- pushing for a SB without knowing who your QB would be the next year. Basically by your reasoning they should never have wasted their time with Rivers or Ryan. Then we’re never going to do anything other than make it harder to acquire their future QB. And sell tickets, like the Pacers.

[ChaosTheory]

Good poker players win more than they lose. Any individual hand or even night may be a loser, but if you are good you will win more than you lose. A good GMs teams should win. That that is even debatable is ridiculous.

The point is that you can make the right moves and your colleagues would recognize that you did and understand results are malleable, especially with six consecutive years of a new starting QB.

Fans and radio host, however, will do what you're doing.

[ChaosTheory]

You missed me saying HOF LT money. There's a huge difference between LT and LG. No LG is worth elite LT money. Especially one with back problems.

One of Ballard's big problems is he's spent way too much capital (both cap dollars and draft picks) on less critical positions while going cheap on much more critical positions.

I don't agree with this. There are exceptions. Nelson wouldn't have been a guard taken at #6 overall unless he was the most hyped OL to come out since I don't even know who.

And then the kid exceeds expectations starting his career with what would've been 4-straight 1st-team All-Pros if he didn't miss games in '21. Of course we're going to pay him and reset the market. I've said before, it doesn't make a difference to a QB if he's getting hit off the edge by Von Miller or up the middle by Aaron Donald. Not to mention the culture shift we had on the OL once he a Smith showed up.

Same goes for Leonard who started his career by racking up better numbers in his first four years than a whole fucking bunch of elite and HOF players amassed in their entire careers. Of course we're going to pay him.

[rm1369]

The point is that you can make the right moves and your colleagues would recognize that you did and understand results are malleable, especially with six consecutive years of a new starting QB.

Fans and radio host, however, will do what you're doing.

Ahh yes - stating in year 2 that you disagree with a philosophy and continuing to disagree in year 6. If he had proven me wrong it would be easy to show. The funny part is I said he was planning a 4-5 yr rebuild and was told I was crazy. Same kinds of shit you are saying now. Little did I know I was being optimistic.

Fanboys tend to do what you are doing - complaining about any critique. Must be nice to have a job that doesn’t require performance.

[Chromeburn]

If you weren’t trying to win with Rivers or Ryan I see no point in acquiring them. Most people assumed 2 years for each of them. So if the first year is a prove it year as you suggest, then the second year would put you in the situation you just described- pushing for a SB without knowing who your QB would be the next year. Basically by your reasoning they should never have wasted their time with Rivers or Ryan. Then we’re never going to do anything other than make it harder to acquire their future QB. And sell tickets, like the Pacers.

Sigh, you keep trying to poke holes in it. It’s not that complicated. At least two years. They didn’t want a new QB every couple years. You’re saying they never should have bc of hindsight. At the time no one knew what the results would be. They were hoping for an Alex Smith n KC at the least, at most a Brady in Tampa or Manning in Denver type situation.

In hindsight maybe they should have bitten the bullet after Luck retired. But hindsight is 20/20 and Irsay didn’t want to go through a bunch of losing seasons.

They have more talent than the pacers did during their stretch of mediocrity.

[Butter]

Judging a GM by how his team performs is wanting a perfect GM? You are fucking retarded.

You are an angry elf.

[IndyNorm]

I didn’t miss it. It’s 3 million more than Jenkins, the previously highest paid guard, and 3 million less than Williams the LT. Everyone knew this would be an increase in guard benchmark. The cap will go up. LT prices will go up as the next franchise LT deal sets a new benchmark.

This is another talking point I hear on 1070 all the time. Less critical positions. You can get rid of them, (lb, rb, G, DT, etc) but are you going to replace them with equivalent talent at a ‘critical’ position? If no, then you are simply becoming a worse team bc you don’t think that position group should be paid well. Then all you have is money and a less talented team. Are those signings keeping them from an obtaining a player at a critical position?

Overpaying at less critical positions and going cheap at the critical ones is how you end up w/ shit like the highest paid but arguable worst performing OL in the league.

[IndyNorm]

I don't agree with this. There are exceptions. Nelson wouldn't have been a guard taken at #6 overall unless he was the most hyped OL to come out since I don't even know who.

And then the kid exceeds expectations starting his career with what would've been 4-straight 1st-team All-Pros if he didn't miss games in '21. Of course we're going to pay him and reset the market. I've said before, it doesn't make a difference to a QB if he's getting hit off the edge by Von Miller or up the middle by Aaron Donald. Not to mention the culture shift we had on the OL once he a Smith showed up.

Same goes for Leonard who started his career by racking up better numbers in his first four years than a whole fucking bunch of elite and HOF players amassed in their entire careers. Of course we're going to pay him.

The point I was making is that LT is WAY more critical than LG, and a great LT can cover for a bad LG. Not the vice versa. Back when we had Tarik Glenn at LT we could put whoever at LG and the OL was fine. Looked what happened when we put a shit LT next to the supposed greatest LG in the history of football this season.

[rm1369]

Sigh, you keep trying to poke holes in it. It’s not that complicated. At least two years. They didn’t want a new QB every couple years. You’re saying they never should have bc of hindsight. At the time no one knew what the results would be. They were hoping for an Alex Smith n KC at the least, at most a Brady in Tampa or Manning in Denver type situation.

In hindsight maybe they should have bitten the bullet after Luck retired. But hindsight is 20/20 and Irsay didn’t want to go through a bunch of losing seasons.

They have more talent than the pacers did during their stretch of mediocrity.

It has nothing to do with hindsight. I have never criticized the decision to acquire any of the QBs. I’ve criticized the decision to acquire veteran QBs with only 1-2 years left in their career and then leaving major holes in the roster. I get real fucking tired of hearing everything is hindsight when I’ve pointed this shit out in real time. It’s your guys go to defense for everything.


I like the move for Matt Ryan, but to me that means you shoot your shot (within reason) over the next two seasons to win a SB. That means taking a hit and possibly having a down year 3 years from now. I’m ok with that. Restructuring a couple contracts to clear space to fill some holes with vets now is what should be occurring. LT and WR in particular, and I love the potential addition of Mathieu. What I don’t want to see is a rookie second or third round LT protecting Ryan. Draft a guy if it makes sense but have a viable alternative on the roster. Same with WR. The only current guy you can count on is Pittman. Don’t go into the season expecting a rookie to contribute on Strachan or Pattmon to play major roles. Or Campbell to stay healthy. If they step up great, but you have two years - don’t fucking waste them.

That is not fucking hindsight. I said from the day they traded for Ryan that they needed to go in on the roster to win and that they shouldn’t depend on a rookie LT.

Alex Smith was with KC for 5 years and they actively tried to win with him. He wasn’t brought in as a place holder. Wentz could have been a Smith like move, but Rivers or Ryan was not. They were more like Brady and Manning situations and neither of those teams wasted one of their few years seeing what they had before they attempted to win. So I’m not understanding the comparison.

[ChaosTheory]

Ahh yes - stating in year 2 that you disagree with a philosophy and continuing to disagree in year 6. If he had proven me wrong it would be easy to show. The funny part is I said he was planning a 4-5 yr rebuild and was told I was crazy. Same kinds of shit you are saying now. Little did I know I was being optimistic.

Fanboys tend to do what you are doing - complaining about any critique. Must be nice to have a job that doesn’t require performance.

Just because you type it doesn't make it true. Your idea of "performance" is totally narrow. It's how a guy like Dan Dakich arrives at his take. Grigson had results and Ballard doesn't. None of his other "performance" matters when you're trying to make a point. Just flash his record without context.

The QB situation is simply the easiest to point out. Nobody stays afloat for 6 years with our circumstances. We did until last year. I won't even ask you if Luck had stayed around if we'd be a year-in-year-out elite team with Ballard's exact same team-building approach. It'd be a dumb question.

Even if we time-traveled, Luck stayed, we had multiple good records and a SB... you just say Luck won it despite Ballard.

[Dam8610]

I find it strange that Ballard’s ardent defenders would be fine condemning him based off of one bad choice. Hell even I admit this is at best a 50 / 50 shot. I don’t believe Ballard’s tenure should be determined by one draft choice. Especially considering that by Chrome’s reasoning they only even have this shot thanks to Irsay. Ballard wouldn’t have gotten them here to have this choice.

Unfortunately this is the Not For Long. You can be great at everything else, but you fuck up that QB pick and you're done. That said, he has probably the best collection of scouts in the league to help him make the decision, and he's a crafty bastard of a negotiator. I'd be shocked if Ballard wasn't at least partially responsible for the recent wave of stories tamping down expectations of crazy Bears fans thinking they were going to get the moon and the stars for the #1 overall pick. Clearly the front office in the league most likely to trade for that pick is the Colts. Ballard even tipped his hand far more than he normally would in his end of year presser, saying he'd do whatever it took to land the right QB if said QB is in this class. Given the team's proximity to the #1 pick and the owner's damn near public mandate that the team draft and develop a QB, "the right guy" is whoever the front office thinks is the best QB in this draft. Given my opinion of this QB class and Ballard and Co.'s acumen at talent evaluation and acquisition, I believe they'll arrive at what I believe to be the correct conclusion that C.J. Stroud is the clear #1 QB in this draft and they'll trade a reasonable, not king's ransom package to Chicago to move up and get him.

The only way I can see Ballard getting this wrong and keeping his job is if Irsay comes in and forces his will as an owner to trade up and pick "that Alabama kid" over Ballard’s objections, and Young ends up busting for whatever reason. That said, Irsay has been involved in the NFL long enough to believe that his comment in that press conference may have been a smokescreen to hide the true interests of the Colts' front office regarding this QB class.

[ChaosTheory]

The point I was making is that LT is WAY more critical than LG, and a great LT can cover for a bad LG. Not the vice versa. Back when we had Tarik Glenn at LT we could put whoever at LG and the OL was fine. Looked what happened when we put a shit LT next to the supposed greatest LG in the history of football this season.

I know what you're saying, I just don't agree with the cliché.

-Darius Leonard was drafted high and eventually paid because he was making edge rusher levels of impact to games from the WLB spot

-Luck is the biggest albatross this team has had and it wasn't caused by LT (we had underrated Castonzo)... he was demolished by years of a pathetic interior OL.

-Grigson finally drafts Kelly on his way out in desperation, Luck misses '17, again because of the interior OL, and Ballard spends the #6 and #37 on guards. Until snake eyes hit this year, they were worth the draft capital and earned their paydays.

-Glenn was a really good LT, but I think I even remember reading Mudd or Dungy or somebody saying that Jake Scott was our best OL. We had a good OL across the board. It's also difficult to judge in a vacuum since Manning was the hardest to sack QB ever.

-Yes, Pryor was a disaster. But Nelson also wasn't himself last season which was part of the rationale behind Reich and Ballard going with Pryor to start. Again, that was about Pryor, not LT. If Pryor and Nelson switched positions, we'd be back to the Luck days desperate to improve the interior OL.

[Dam8610]

The point I was making is that LT is WAY more critical than LG, and a great LT can cover for a bad LG. Not the vice versa. Back when we had Tarik Glenn at LT we could put whoever at LG and the OL was fine. Looked what happened when we put a shit LT next to the supposed greatest LG in the history of football this season.

Come on, he's not John Hannah yet.

[rm1369]

Just because you type it doesn't make it true. Your idea of "performance" is totally narrow. It's how a guy like Dan Dakich arrives at his take. Grigson had results and Ballard doesn't. None of his other "performance" matters when you're trying to make a point. Just flash his record without context.

The QB situation is simply the easiest to point out. Nobody stays afloat for 6 years with our circumstances. We did until last year. I won't even ask you if Luck had stayed around if we'd be a year-in-year-out elite team with Ballard's exact same team-building approach. It'd be a dumb question.

Even if we time-traveled, Luck stayed, we had multiple good records and a SB... you just say Luck won it despite Ballard.

It’s strange - when we argued about Polian the only thing that mattered to you was wins and losses. And the fact it was done with Manning was largely irrelevant. Polian was an obvious genius because of his wins and losses. Now on Ballard, wins and losses means nothing and his QB situation is critical in analyzing his performance.

Luck retiring was unprecedented. However needing to fix the QB situation situation is hardly unusual. It’s a situation most GMs face. I don’t knock Ballard for not having a franchise QB in place, I knock him for his half assed approach to the position and the roster. Acquiring vet QBs and prioritizing development for the rest of the roster has been stupid. It’s kept the team mediocre - good enough for you guys to say he can’t draft his QB, yet bad enough that the team isn’t winning anything meaningful- 1 playoff win in 6 years, no division titles in one of the leagues worst divisions. I would have been fine with a worse record developing a young QB. I would have been fine shooting their shot with any of those QBs and coming up short. What I’m not fine with is the “safe” middle that you guys seem to love and that has gone exactly as I expected. But it makes sense. Ballard has said it, Dam is saying it, Chrome is saying it - once he drafts a QB then his excuse goes away and he will likely be fired if he misses. Again I disagree with the logic. But it makes sense that he has continuously punted on the decision and made no “big” mistakes. Job security. And hell, if it wasn’t for Irsay getting involved (which I didn’t like) he still wouldn’t be in a position to fix the QB position. As long as he had that crutch and wasn’t Grigson he was untouchable.

I asked Chrome for some kind of measuring stick for Ballard going forward. His answer is simply draft well. I’m curious whose job in the organization is it to put together winning teams? According to him that shouldn’t be the measure for Ballard. He’s largely drafted well for 6 fucking years and yet the Colts were one of the worst teams in the league. If he’s drafted well for 6 years yet the team still sucks don’t you think it is fair to question some of his methods, his team building philosophy? That’s why I say he’s not required to perform.

[JAFF]

BS I’m tired of hearing the hindsight argument on any criticism of Ballard. I’ve consistently criticized Ballard’s stated method since his second off season. That’s not hindsight. And I pretty much never criticize him for who he has drafted or who he signed at QB. Everyone is going to miss on players. It’s constantly wasting season after season on development that pisses me off. In 6 years he still hasn’t had a season where he pushed to win. Not fucking once.

Send in an application.

[rm1369]

Send in an application.

I’m guessing you never criticized Grigson or Pagano? How about a player? Fuck off with your childish BS arguments.

[JAFF]

I’m guessing you never criticized Grigson or Pagano? How about a player? Fuck off with your childish BS arguments.

No, I had my critic of both of them, after the fact. But I dont pretend to know how to run a draft.

Im not going to pretend to know what goes on in the front office on 54 th street, let alone in Irsays head. He may be serious about trading up to get the kid from Alabama.

I dont pretend to know more than someone who has actually spent most of his entire adult life working inside football. Ballard doesnt get the gift of hindsight. It could have been Irsay who told him to trade for Wentz. Did we have all the info on that trade the day it happened?

I will give you my guess for the future. It wont matter who they draft as a Qb if they dont fix the O line. Draft it, trade for it, I dont care. Cut guys if they cant get something for them, but make some room and bring some one who is a hitter.

From HINDSIGHT, it wont matter who the Qb is. He will look like the kid with the bears. Running for his life trying to make plays. Unless our future Qb is an olympic sprinter, it will be a football version of Groundhogs day all season long

[Chromeburn]

Overpaying at less critical positions and going cheap at the critical ones is how you end up w/ shit like the highest paid but arguable worst performing OL in the league.

Not really. Other teams have paid guards. Cowboys have pulled it off. The underperformance is the problem. And that is mostly attributable to one player disrupting the entire unit. Pryor just couldn’t get in sync with the oline at tackle or guard. Things started to stabilize once Raimann got better.

The defense was very good, but they missed Leonard’s turnovers which is an elite skill worth paying. Again you ignore the fact that removing those players just creates a performance gap. It isn’t replaced by another player somewhere else.

[ChaosTheory]

It’s strange - when we argued about Polian the only thing that mattered to you was wins and losses. And the fact it was done with Manning was largely irrelevant. Polian was an obvious genius because of his wins and losses. Now on Ballard, wins and losses means nothing and his QB situation is critical in analyzing his performance.

That's hilarious because I'm the least single-issue minded person you'll come across. I've had guys bitch at me for getting too bogged down in the details, even you I believe. I've never had somebody say my argument is too narrow. You either didn't read my posts or are intentionally omitting details. The first bold text, for example, is such a mischaracterization that it basically qualifies as made up.

And the second bold is a similar example of mischaracterizing where you take things to ridiculous extremes.

The rest of your post is stuff we've scrapped over already. We disagree. I think your premise is wrong. Going back to the original point of bringing up Polian's record in our previous conversation... even if this team drafts a great QB in '23 and begins a run of 10 years of success akin to the 2000's Colts, that won't be good enough for you.

You won't view Ballard in a positive light until he signs a bunch of big names from other teams. And it's not like it's about whether those moves work out or not... you'll say, "At least he took his shot."

[YDFL Commish]

It’s strange - when we argued about Polian the only thing that mattered to you was wins and losses. And the fact it was done with Manning was largely irrelevant. Polian was an obvious genius because of his wins and losses. Now on Ballard, wins and losses means nothing and his QB situation is critical in analyzing his performance.

You do realize that this is a team game right? Polian and Dungy, Mudd, Moore and Manning are all HOFer's or should be Hall of Famers. Hell I'll even throw in Teerlink and Huey into that mix.

That was unique collection of individuals who worked well together and were very strong minded in their beliefs.

Pagano and Grigson were strong minded pricks who were bull headed and couldn't work together.

Ballard is strong minded and probably had more control than he should have, because of Reich's passive we can win with these guys philosophy. You can see that in the handling of 2 players last season. Reich was hands off on defense and Nick Cross was benched 1 1/2 games into the season. Reich ran the offense and continued to believe in Pryor at two different positions that he failed miserably at for 9 straight games.

Ballard and Reich just did not form a good team. That's nothing against either one of them. It just wasn't working and because we didn't have other coaches the caliber of our 2000's teams and a Peyton Manning, it was never going to work.

[rm1369]

All I’ll say is it’s a shame the amount of historical posts on here is limited. I’m curious how many of you specifically told me that I was crazy for saying Ballard’s methods were embarking on a 4-5 year rebuild. I don’t remember a single person saying yes but it’s going to take that or longer. Not a single person, yet now it’s so obvious that this was the only way to go. At the time it was all calling me an impatient hater who didn’t understand his brilliance or his challenge. Here we are in the exact scenario I said and I’m still just a hater who doesn’t understand his brilliance or challenges. Eventually, if he hits at QB it will be turned around and you guys will crow and bask in your 7-8 year rebuild. I suspect he’ll still be the ultra conservative GM he is now and it will be bad luck when the same issues keep beating the team. Time will tell.

[HoosierinFL]

Good news, Carson Wentz is available!

[ChaosTheory]

All I’ll say is it’s a shame the amount of historical posts on here is limited. I’m curious how many of you specifically told me that I was crazy for saying Ballard’s methods were embarking on a 4-5 year rebuild. I don’t remember a single person saying yes but it’s going to take that or longer. Not a single person, yet now it’s so obvious that this was the only way to go. At the time it was all calling me an impatient hater who didn’t understand his brilliance or his challenge. Here we are in the exact scenario I said and I’m still just a hater who doesn’t understand his brilliance or challenges. Eventually, if he hits at QB it will be turned around and you guys will crow and bask in your 7-8 year rebuild. I suspect he’ll still be the ultra conservative GM he is now and it will be bad luck when the same issues keep beating the team. Time will tell.

They go back to early 2018, which was Ballard's second offseason as you've talked about. If everybody was giving opinions about a 5 year rebuild in the context of 2018, what's so egregious about that?

We had our QB. Were we not way ahead of that 5 year rebuild by the end of 2018? We had just ridden a 10-1 wave, including smacking the division champs at home, into the playoffs where we went back to HOU and smacked the division champs again even worse.

Yeah, in that context, before Luck bailed out, I'd agree with guys that may have thought 4 more years to rebuild was a stretch. Because it was.

[IndyNorm]

Not really. Other teams have paid guards. Cowboys have pulled it off. The underperformance is the problem. And that is mostly attributable to one player disrupting the entire unit. Pryor just couldn’t get in sync with the oline at tackle or guard. Things started to stabilize once Raimann got better.
.

This proves my point, or at least the point I was trying to make. If your LT sucks then your OL is in all likelihood going to suck. Ballard overspent at the less critical position and therefore (at least in his mind) he had to go cheap at LT. And it was an epic fucking disaster.

[IndyNorm]

I know what you're saying, I just don't agree with the cliché.

-Darius Leonard was drafted high and eventually paid because he was making edge rusher levels of impact to games from the WLB spot

-Luck is the biggest albatross this team has had and it wasn't caused by LT (we had underrated Castonzo)... he was demolished by years of a pathetic interior OL.

-Grigson finally drafts Kelly on his way out in desperation, Luck misses '17, again because of the interior OL, and Ballard spends the #6 and #37 on guards. Until snake eyes hit this year, they were worth the draft capital and earned their paydays.

-Glenn was a really good LT, but I think I even remember reading Mudd or Dungy or somebody saying that Jake Scott was our best OL. We had a good OL across the board. It's also difficult to judge in a vacuum since Manning was the hardest to sack QB ever.

-Yes, Pryor was a disaster. But Nelson also wasn't himself last season which was part of the rationale behind Reich and Ballard going with Pryor to start. Again, that was about Pryor, not LT. If Pryor and Nelson switched positions, we'd be back to the Luck days desperate to improve the interior OL.

It's not really a cliche, it's a fact that unless you have a left handed QB LT is the most important position on the OL. Not only is he protecting the QBs blind side, but he's typically going up against the other teams best pass rusher.

Guessing the quote about Scott was more about him being the most versatile since he could play multiple OL spots. Glenn and Saturday were definitely the best OL we had in the Peyton era. I just remember back then us plugging in whoever at LG: 7th rounders, UDFAs, guys signed to the practice squad the week before, and it was fine. I'm sure Peyton had a lot to do with that, but Glenn did as well.

Also, I never suggested that Nelson should have been moved to LT. If he was able to do that it probably would have happened well before now.

[ChaosTheory]

It's not really a cliche, it's a fact that unless you have a left handed QB LT is the most important position on the OL. Not only is he protecting the QBs blind side, but he's typically going up against the other teams best pass rusher.

Maybe cliché-lite. I understand it, and in a vacuum I agree, I just think it's a bit overstated. With all the passing in the league, you're seeing pass rushers all over the line. Donald, Jones, Heyward, Buckner... these dudes can wreck a game from the interior just as much as Bosa, Watt, Garrett can outside.

So when Nelson comes along and makes the impact he did, despite going against conventional thought, he was worth taking at #6 and worth paying to keep. He reset the market so he's close, but still behind the top LT's money.

Guessing the quote about Scott was more about him being the most versatile since he could play multiple OL spots. Glenn and Saturday were definitely the best OL we had in the Peyton era. I just remember back then us plugging in whoever at LG: 7th rounders, UDFAs, guys signed to the practice squad the week before, and it was fine. I'm sure Peyton had a lot to do with that, but Glenn did as well.

I wish I could remember where I read that because it was such a long time ago. It stuck with me because I wouldn't have expected to hear that. Not important because I'm not knocking Glenn at all.

Also, I never suggested that Nelson should have been moved to LT. If he was able to do that it probably would have happened well before now.

I didn't mean to imply you suggested it. Just saying Pryor would have been exploited anywhere on the line. Nelson could have faired better at LT than Pryor, but Pryor would still be beaten inside and Matt Crisco Fingers Ryan would've fumbled again and we'd lose.

[Chromeburn]

This proves my point, or at least the point I was trying to make. If your LT sucks then your OL is in all likelihood going to suck. Ballard overspent at the less critical position and therefore (at least in his mind) he had to go cheap at LT. And it was an epic fucking disaster.

For this line I think the LT is a lynchpin, I’ve been saying that a long time since Castonzo first got hurt. But the plan was always to draft a long term replacement at LT. They had a stopgap vet who wasn’t that good for a year then they tried an athlete who couldn’t adjust. But the hope was always a rookie to come in and fill it. You kind of have to with the money going to other positions. Then I expect when it comes time for Raimann’s second contract we will move to rookies at other spots. Yeah the stop gap didn’t work, we all know this. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sign Nelson, nor does it mean he doesn’t value LT. He just doesn’t value a high priced older bet at LT, if they could have even signed Williams who was pretty much the only one available.

[JAFF]

It's not really a cliche, it's a fact that unless you have a left handed QB LT is the most important position on the OL. Not only is he protecting the QBs blind side, but he's typically going up against the other teams best pass rusher.

Guessing the quote about Scott was more about him being the most versatile since he could play multiple OL spots. Glenn and Saturday were definitely the best OL we had in the Peyton era. I just remember back then us plugging in whoever at LG: 7th rounders, UDFAs, guys signed to the practice squad the week before, and it was fine. I'm sure Peyton had a lot to do with that, but Glenn did as well.

Also, I never suggested that Nelson should have been moved to LT. If he was able to do that it probably would have happened well before now.

The Oline for Manning could move positions because thats how they were coached by Howard Mudd.

[ukcolt]

As important as having top tier talent on an offensive line, is having the absolute best offensive line coaches who can maximise each individual player to get the very most out of their skill set. If that then means you need to be going to the offensive co-ordinator and saying "stop calling that stupid play, we don't have the personnel to block that", then that might be as good as anything.

I am sure Strausser is a decent oline coach, but is he as good as Howard Mudd was? Does he command the level of respect from the rest of the coaches?

[Chromeburn]

The Oline for Manning could move positions because thats how they were coached by Howard Mudd.

Line play has degraded since Manning’s time. A lot of articles have been written about it. Bc of the players agreement practice time is a lot shorter, consequently it also means player development is not as good now. Why I think you see more of a premium on oline players in the draft.

Years before teams would take guards and centers lower and then develop them as years went by. That’s not happening as much now. Partially why Grigson’s dated philosophy on building oline didn’t and doesn’t work now.

[JAFF]

Line play has degraded since Manning’s time. A lot of articles have been written about it. Bc of the players agreement practice time is a lot shorter, consequently it also means player development is not as good now. Why I think you see more of a premium on oline players in the draft.

Years before teams would take guards and centers lower and then develop them as years went by. That’s not happening as much now. Partially why Grigson’s dated philosophy on building oline didn’t and doesn’t work now.

Give Polian a little credit. He knew what Mudd wanted. Graduates, team captains, had “good feet” , played multiple positions in college, a good team mate. It was also a reason the colts lost lineman to FA. Drop them in a system, they could play

[ChaosTheory]

Line play has degraded since Manning’s time. A lot of articles have been written about it. Bc of the players agreement practice time is a lot shorter

Not just shorter, but softer, as well. For example, some of the drills they prohibited from all practices:

(1) Bull in the Ring/King of the Circle
Defined: Prior to the start of the drill players stand in a circle surrounding one player in the middle. Each player is assigned a number. The drill begins when a coach calls out a number. The player to whom that number was assigned is then required to charge at the player standing in the middle of the circle. Coaches may call more than one number at a time, resulting in multiple players charging the player in the middle.
(2) Oklahoma Drill
Defined: Players begin the drill barricaded on each side and lined up directly across from each other. (The players could be a defensive tackle, offensive lineman, ball carrier, and linebacker, or defensive back versus a wide receiver and ball carrier). Upon the start of the drill, players attack each other straight on with no angles. After contact the defender is attempting to shed a block while the offensive player is attempting to create a vertical drive block or a defender attempting to tack the ball carrier runs directly downhill as the ball carrier runs directly through a defender without the ability of either to avoid linear contact due to the barricade on each side with the goal of freeing or tackling the ball carrier.
(3) OL/DL In-Line Run Blocking/Board-Drill
Defined: Two players begin the drill by aligning directly across or slightly offset from one another within an artificially confined area, such as between boards, straddling a board or confined by other similar objects or as otherwise indicated by a member of the coaching staff. Upon the snap, players are directed to physically engage with each other off the ball and challenge for vertical push with no attempt by the defensive player to evade the block. The intent of the rule is to prohibit one-on-one tests of strength within artificially confined areas that do not permit the defensive player to angle his approach, shed the blocker, or take other evasive action. This rule does not prohibit or limit one-on-one pass rush or pass protection drills that do not occur within an artificially confined area. (Prohibited during OL versus DL padded practice. Conducting this drill with or without pads and at walking or jogging pace is permitted).
(4) Half Line/Pods/3-Spot
Defined: Offensive and defensive line players line up in a partial formational set to practice run blocking. These drills could also include a running back and tight end. (Prohibited during offense versus defense padded practice. Conducting this drill with or without pads and at walking pace or jogging is permitted.)

[JAFF]

Not just shorter, but softer, as well. For example, some of the drills they prohibited from all practices:

Guys get hurt with those drills, pee wee to NFL.

[ChaosTheory]

Guys get hurt with those drills, pee wee to NFL.

Sure, but it's just an illustration of the direction the league has gone over the years.

[JAFF]

Sure, but it's just an illustration of the direction the league has gone over the years.

When the number of draft picks decreased and roster limits they had to stop those bs drills. Losing guys in practice to see who’s “the man” was always stupid. My hs lost an important player before first game of state football because the HC thought bull in the ring was a good idea

[ChaosTheory]

When the number of draft picks decreased and roster limits they had to stop those bs drills. Losing guys in practice to see who’s “the man” was always stupid. My hs lost an important player before first game of state football because the HC thought bull in the ring was a good idea

We never did the circle drill. Everybody loved Oklahoma and board drills, though.

[Brylok]

Mike White? Any interest? 6'5, 220. 27 years old.
I haven't been posting or reading much lately. Not excited about any of the top 4 QBs we're likely to pick.

[YDFL Commish]

Brett Kollmanns take:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5CGSKGVlhM

[JAFF]

Line play has degraded since Manning’s time. A lot of articles have been written about it. Bc of the players agreement practice time is a lot shorter, consequently it also means player development is not as good now. Why I think you see more of a premium on oline players in the draft.

Years before teams would take guards and centers lower and then develop them as years went by. That’s not happening as much now. Partially why Grigson’s dated philosophy on building oline didn’t and doesn’t work now.

Howard Mudd would take starters and move them in practice and insert back ups in their place. You make time in practice so guys step in and play. You make it part of your daily plan. You plan for the worst, you hope for the best

[YDFL Commish]

Mudd and Moore belong in the HOF as coaches. I mean god damn look what Moore did with the Lions as OC, he actually made Scott Mitchell look like an All Pro QB.

[Dam8610]

Mike White? Any interest? 6'5, 220. 27 years old.
I haven't been posting or reading much lately. Not excited about any of the top 4 QBs we're likely to pick.

I'd take White as a backup...

Brett Kollmanns take:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5CGSKGVlhM

As Kollman did, but I don't understand him taking Richardson in the draft section. I guess he has another team trading up to 1 ahead of the Texans and those two teams getting Stroud and Young? Ballard can't let that happen.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=260670#post260670





https://cconnect.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2014-Absolute-Derek-Carr-RC-147-213x300.jpg lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllhttps://png.pngitem.com/pimgs/s/160-1601998_new-orleans-saints-nfl-logo-png-download-logo.png

o

[Discflinger]

Would be amazing to re-sign Rivers after cuts are made. Apparently he wants back in the game. I wouldn’t want him starting much. Maybe the first four games of the season.

[Dam8610]

Would be amazing to re-sign Rivers after cuts are made. Apparently he wants back in the game. I wouldn’t want him starting much. Maybe the first four games of the season.

If they're not going to make the right move to trade up to 1 for Stroud and they end up with Richardson, they'll need to sign a QB to start for 2 years.

[Colts And Orioles]

o


In the NFL forum ......


http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=261294#post261294

o

[Dam8610]

They might as well sign Lamar at this point. 5/250 fully guaranteed should get Baltimore not to match. You'll lose two 1s, but they'll hopefully be in the 20s or 30s, and you can use 4 to trade down and get more picks, maybe even replace next year's 1, and then draft a good pass rusher. It's certainly a better option than drafting Anthony Richardson or Will Levis.

[Chromeburn]

Listening to NFL radio today. There are going to be a lot of guys getting cut this year.

[ChaosTheory]

Zak Keefer is saying the Colts are looking at bringing Gardner Minshew. He's been Steichen's backup QB the past two years.

https://twitter.com/zkeefer/status/1636363387473911814?cxt=HHwWjICznZj1w7UtAAAA

[Brylok]

Zak Keefer is saying the Colts are looking at bringing Gardner Minshew. He's been Steichen's backup QB the past two years.

https://twitter.com/zkeefer/status/1636363387473911814?cxt=HHwWjICznZj1w7UtAAAA

I called that days ago. Levis, Minshew, and Ehlinger will be our QBs.

[Dam8610]

I called that days ago. Levis, Minshew, and Ehlinger will be our QBs.

Hopefully they'll be willing to draft Caleb Williams (or whoever the top QB is next year) once that QB room goes 2-15.

[Oldcolt]

Minshew can start while the rookie sits and learns. I could get behind watching this unfold, especially if AR is the guy waiting and learning. Just a rumor for now but interesting

[JAFF]

If they bring him in, they need a solid guy in the qb room. How to study film, how to read an nfl defense, how to play and respond to all the ups and downs of a season, how to be a leader in the locker room. How to respond to tough coaching. J

[ChaosTheory]

Looks like Parris Campbell is joining Okereke with the Giants.

Sorry, Dam.

[ChaosTheory]

They got him for $3m, so top-third WR money. That's around what I thought Ballard would offer for a prove it year.

[Brylok]

They got him for $3m, so top-third WR money. That's around what I thought Ballard would offer for a prove it year.

Yep. I posted it in the other thread. Looks like Campbell wanted to leave.

[ChaosTheory]

Yep. I posted it in the other thread. Looks like Campbell wanted to leave.

I guess that makes sense. We/they still don't know what the QB situation here is going to be, let alone if it'll be attractive. He's got to earn his second contract based on this coming year. Understandable.

By the way, if I'm understanding this compensatory picks thing more accurately... this move looks like it puts us at neutral by cancelling out the Matt Gay signing.

[Brylok]

Hopefully they'll be willing to draft Caleb Williams (or whoever the top QB is next year) once that QB room goes 2-15.

I believe that's the plan. And I'm predicting 3-14.

[Dam8610]

I believe that's the plan. And I'm predicting 3-14.

Then why not draft Will Anderson or Jalen Carter and not waste this year's 4th overall pick on a player that they don't think is worth the pick?

[Dam8610]

Looks like Parris Campbell is joining Okereke with the Giants.

Sorry, Dam.

Giants are building a good offense. Waller is obviously a much bigger addition than Campbell.

[Discflinger]

Apparently he left because of Visor McDouche. Surprising

[Brylok]

Then why not draft Will Anderson or Jalen Carter and not waste this year's 4th overall pick on a player that they don't think is worth the pick?

They might take Anderson. Carter might be in the Georgia penal league for all we know. Maybe they're afraid fans will riot if a QB isn't picked at 4. Although I can't imagine the Colts fan base rioting. LOS is usually pretty quiet.

[Mr. Session]

They're screwed within the context of getting the right QB anyway, so that's a wash IMO.

Commit to the suck/rebuild since you're already trading away guys that help you compete now. Draft Anderson and start putting shit together to ensure you get the best QB in the draft next year.

[Dam8610]

They're screwed within the context of getting the right QB anyway, so that's a wash IMO.

Commit to the suck/rebuild since you're already trading away guys that help you compete now. Draft Anderson and start putting shit together to ensure you get the best QB in the draft next year.

Cardinals will likely draft Anderson. If that's the case, it's Tyree Wilson, Myles Murphy, Jalen Carter, or trade down. I'd take Carter there, because I think he's likely to get a slap on the wrist.

[IndyNorm]

Apparently he left because of Visor McDouche. Surprising

Huh?

[IndyNorm]

Cardinals will likely draft Anderson. If that's the case, it's Tyree Wilson, Myles Murphy, Jalen Carter, or trade down. I'd take Carter there, because I think he's likely to get a slap on the wrist.

If he really likes Anderson Ballard could trade up to 3 since AZ would probably have the impression that we're moving up to make sure we get the QB we like. Not really Ballard's style, but it's an option.

[JAFF]

Apparently he left because of Visor McDouche. Surprising

What planet are you on? Whoa, nevermind

[JAFF]

Huh?

Dont ask, its a waste of electrons

[albany ed]

Looks like Parris Campbell is joining Okereke with the Giants.

Sorry, Dam.

That's too bad. The Giants may possibly be the beneficiaries of a player with enormous potential. Due to injuries, we've never been able to get the best out of him, and now, ... ? If he can stay healthy, he'll shine in NY.

[Brylok]

I saw this morning that LT Jonah Williams is wanting to be traded out of Cincinnati. He's 25/6'5"/310. The eleventh pick of the 2019 draft. Played for Alabama. He had a knee surgery but should be ready to go. Any interest in him? Seems to me like he could be useful.

[ChaosTheory]

I saw this morning that LT Jonah Williams is wanting to be traded out of Cincinnati. He's 25/6'5"/310. The eleventh pick of the 2019 draft. Played for Alabama. He had a knee surgery but should be ready to go. Any interest in him? Seems to me like he could be useful.

No. He's getting bumped due to the Orlando Brown signing and he's coming up on his fifth year option so he's going to want a starting LT payday.

Raimann is still cheap for a few years and he was playing better than Williams the latter part of the season. He's not better than Smith, either.

[Hoopsdoc]

Huh?

I think he was referring to Carr leaving the Raiders.

[Hoopsdoc]

No. He's getting bumped due to the Orlando Brown signing and he's coming up on his fifth year option so he's going to want a starting LT payday.

Raimann is still cheap for a few years and he was playing better than Williams the latter part of the season. He's not better than Smith, either.

I’m not sure what the heck Kansas City was thinking. They signed Taylor for 4 years and 80 million. Taylor has never played left tackle.

Meanwhile, OBJ signed with Cincy for 20 million dollars less.

[ChaosTheory]

I’m not sure what the heck Kansas City was thinking. They signed Taylor for 4 years and 80 million. Taylor has never played left tackle.

Meanwhile, OBJ signed with Cincy for 20 million dollars less.

Interesting. On paper, yeah, seems a little odd. Roughly the same age, you just won a Super Bowl with the guy, but you give a bigger contract to an outsider who's never played LT.

Couple things... Brown was a RT with BAL before he came to KC (although he did play some LT), so Taylor might work out fine. Also, I've read some KC message boards and local articles occasionally (particularly after the IND-KC game) and Brown didn't seem to be held in high regard. Without watching their games closely... maybe he just didn't play that well.

Clearly Reid and Veach like Taylor on tape.

[Brylok]

Pascal to the Cardinals. 2 years, $ not announced yet.

[IndyNorm]

Pascal to the Cardinals. 2 years, $ not announced yet.

Bummer. Would have been good to have brought him back :cool:.

[Hoopsdoc]

Anyone else wondering why they haven’t made a single move on the offensive line yet?

They at least need a starter at right guard.

[Dam8610]

Anyone else wondering why they haven’t made a single move on the offensive line yet?

They at least need a starter at right guard.

They're planning on drafting one probably. IOL is pretty deep in this draft class.

[IndyNorm]

Anyone else wondering why they haven’t made a single move on the offensive line yet?

They at least need a starter at right guard.

I am. Not only do we need a new starting RG, but we need a good backup OT, and at least a good back up at OC in case Kelly sucks balls again this year.

[IndyNorm]

Something else I've been wondering is why hasn't Foles been released.

[Ironshaft]

Something else I've been wondering is why hasn't Foles been released.

Insurance.

IF, and this is a big IF, the Colts only like three of the "top" four QBs and someone comes from left field and offers so much that Arizona feels compelled to trade the #3 pick and three QBs go off the board 1, 2, 3......what do the Colts do?

Having watched Ballard for a number of years now, I think they trade down and amass the stock capital to trade up in 2024 rather than take the best defender in the draft.

At that point, Minshew and Foles battle it out for who is starting in 2023 with Sam as the 3rd QB.

[Dam8610]

Insurance.

IF, and this is a big IF, the Colts only like three of the "top" four QBs and someone comes from left field and offers so much that Arizona feels compelled to trade the #3 pick and three QBs go off the board 1, 2, 3......what do the Colts do?

Having watched Ballard for a number of years now, I think they trade down and amass the stock capital to trade up in 2024 rather than take the best defender in the draft.

At that point, Minshew and Foles battle it out for who is starting in 2023 with Sam as the 3rd QB.

If that happens, the smartest move would be to draft Will Anderson and contact Lamar Jackson to begin negotiations the Monday morning after the draft.

[Oldcolt]

I have a hard time seeing Ballard trading down. I know he loved to do this but it has not worked for this team. All it has done is bring us mediocrity. We need playmakers in the worst way. I see him falling in love with Richardson. He has the athletic qualities Ballard will fall in love with and I think the young man has his shit together mentally, he seems bright and motivated to be a total QB. He has never even had a dedicated QB coach in college so he is incredibly raw. I would enjoy watching his growth.

[rcubed]

I have a hard time seeing Ballard trading down. I know he loved to do this but it has not worked for this team. All it has done is bring us mediocrity. We need playmakers in the worst way. I see him falling in love with Richardson. He has the athletic qualities Ballard will fall in love with and I think the young man has his shit together mentally, he seems bright and motivated to be a total QB. He has never even had a dedicated QB coach in college so he is incredibly raw. I would enjoy watching his growth.
I could also see us taking anderson at 4 if stroud and young are gone. Top 2 QBs off the board and if the other two highly touted ones are viewed as too much of a project to be worthy of 4th pick, then binder-ballard takes anderson and maybe moves up later or grabs hooker later.

[Discflinger]

Anyone see where Baldringer said that he wanted to build depth with Pryor? Ok, dude, I am seriously done now.

[IndyNorm]

Insurance.

IF, and this is a big IF, the Colts only like three of the "top" four QBs and someone comes from left field and offers so much that Arizona feels compelled to trade the #3 pick and three QBs go off the board 1, 2, 3......what do the Colts do?

Having watched Ballard for a number of years now, I think they trade down and amass the stock capital to trade up in 2024 rather than take the best defender in the draft.

At that point, Minshew and Foles battle it out for who is starting in 2023 with Sam as the 3rd QB.

Good point. Although under that scenario I can't imagine Foles being any higher than QB3 with how awful he was in his 2 starts last year.

Looks like he wasn't due any sort of offseason roster bonus, at least per OTC. So guessing he hasn't been released since there's no reason to now unless we needed the cap space, which is only $2.1M.

[Dewey 5]

Insurance.

IF, and this is a big IF, the Colts only like three of the "top" four QBs and someone comes from left field and offers so much that Arizona feels compelled to trade the #3 pick and three QBs go off the board 1, 2, 3......what do the Colts do?

Having watched Ballard for a number of years now, I think they trade down and amass the stock capital to trade up in 2024 rather than take the best defender in the draft.

At that point, Minshew and Foles battle it out for who is starting in 2023 with Sam as the 3rd QB.

If he does that he won't be the one drafting players in 2024.

[JAFF]

If that happens, the smartest move would be to draft Will Anderson and contact Lamar Jackson to begin negotiations the Monday morning after the draft.

Where does the cap space come from? Isnt he wanting a big contract with a lot of $$$ uo front?

https://overthecap.com/calculator/indianapolis-colts

[Dam8610]

Where does the cap space come from? Isnt he wanting a big contract with a lot of $$$ uo front?

https://overthecap.com/calculator/indianapolis-colts

There's plenty of fat the Colts could cut for more cap room. Cutting Ryan Kelly, Kenny Moore, Nick Foles, and Mo Alie Cox could generate as much as $23 million.

[Racehorse]

There's plenty of fat the Colts could cut for more cap room. Cutting Ryan Kelly, Kenny Moore, Nick Foles, and Mo Alie Cox could generate as much as $23 million.

You gotta replace those guys with someone.

[ChaosTheory]

Surely as prudent as they've been, they have a future available that they can mortgage (to whatever degree) in order to make a monster contract happen now if they want to.

Cutting guys like Moore and Kelly is not something that makes sense to me, as popular of an idea as it is. Moore had a down year, but he's currently one of two CB's we have with any real playing time. Kelly also had a down year, but I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people do. He got highlight reeled and now everybody thinks he can't play football anymore.

[Dam8610]

You gotta replace those guys with someone.

Foles and Mo Alie Cox's replacements are on the roster. The other 2 can be drafted.

[Brylok]

Matt Pryor to the 49ers. I haven't seen any terms yet.

[ukcolt]

Foles and Mo Alie Cox's replacements are on the roster. The other 2 can be drafted.

Are you living in cloud cuckoo land?

What draft assets would we have left after this blockbuster trade?

We already have holes we need to fill, let alone creating yet more that we then need to replace?

I accept that their is a possibility of Jackson being a Colt, but one player can destroy a team dynamic for years as well, if they don't work out.

Losing at least 2 first round picks, absorbing his salary and having to cut two more starters this year, and likely others in future years as his cap hit escalates, is not the way to build a franchise long term. Building a team via the draft and then paying a QB big money after year 5, is ok, as you still have your subsequent high pick draft assets and they are cheap, which doesn't affect the salary cap so much and you can manage your roster more easily.

[YDFL Commish]

Matt Pryor to the 49ers. I haven't seen any terms yet.

How that guy remains in the NFL is a mystery to me.

[Spike]

Matt Pryor to the 49ers. I haven't seen any terms yet.

LOL. Why?

My 2nd favorite team picks him up? Idiots! SMDH!

[bigalbert]

Lot of momentum on SM about the Colts making a play for LamJack. I don’t want this but it would make us a legit contender immediately and we wouldn’t have to fix our line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAFF]

You gotta replace those guys with someone.

Exactly

[JAFF]

Foles and Mo Alie Cox's replacements are on the roster. The other 2 can be drafted.

Yeah, because pro bowl centers are easy to find.

[Brylok]

Ryan Kelly and Kenny Moore are both staying for 2023 per Ballard (Z. Keefer)

[ChaosTheory]

I feel like I've scrolled past headlines all day mentioning the Colts and Jackson. Just now getting a chance to read some of it. Where is the smoke coming from?

[JAFF]

I feel like I've scrolled past headlines all day mentioning the Colts and Jackson. Just now getting a chance to read some of it. Where is the smoke coming from?

If they sign lamar jackson, they should just run option out of the I bone

[YDFL Commish]

Ron Meyer would approve.

[IndyNorm]

Yeah, because pro bowl centers are easy to find.

They obviously aren't, but Kelly isn't anywhere close to being a pro bowl center anymore.

[Racehorse]

Foles and Mo Alie Cox's replacements are on the roster. The other 2 can be drafted.

We really need a laughing emoji beside the "thanks" button.

[Discflinger]

I just realized that we are over the Banagu experiment. Man, that was long and tedious.

[JAFF]

I feel like I've scrolled past headlines all day mentioning the Colts and Jackson. Just now getting a chance to read some of it. Where is the smoke coming from?

Dam’s ass

[omahacolt]

I just realized that we are over the Banagu experiment. Man, that was long and tedious.
wasn't much of an experiment

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

DeForest Buckner could be a target for a contract restructure to lower his cap hit for the 2023 season.




The Colts restructured Buckner's contract to free up a little more cap room this year:

https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1646118091514839040?cxt=HHwWgICw8djrl9gtAAAA

The Colts converted $5 million of DT DeForest Buckner's salary this season into a signing bonus, clearing $2.5M in cap space.

He'll still make $19.75M, which is now fully guaranteed.

[JAFF]

The Colts restructured Buckner's contract to free up a little more cap room this year:

https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1646118091514839040?cxt=HHwWgICw8djrl9gtAAAA

Makes sense and sends a message. Become the best, we pay for the best. Fuck dumping salary, lets go and win

[Brylok]

The Colts restructured Buckner's contract to free up a little more cap room this year:

https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1646118091514839040?cxt=HHwWgICw8djrl9gtAAAA

Money to re-sign Foles? Ballard going hit up the Dollar Tree for a CB before the draft? Gonna bring Ya-Sin back?

[Dam8610]

Money to re-sign Foles? Ballard going hit up the Dollar Tree for a CB before the draft? Gonna bring Ya-Sin back?

Probably Door #3.

[IndyNorm]

Money to re-sign Foles? Ballard going hit up the Dollar Tree for a CB before the draft? Gonna bring Ya-Sin back?

We're ~$22.5M under the cap after Defo's restructure, so hopefully it's to make a little extra room for Rock and/or another decent signing.

And speaking of Foles we'll have another $2.1M of cap space whenever we finally release him.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

The Colts met with free agent OL Chris Hubbard.

Hubbard has played both Guard and Tackle positions during his tenure with the Steelers and Browns.


https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1655609396196458499

Veteran OL Chris Hubbard recently visited the Colts, per source. Nine-year vet has 49 career starts with Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

[Chromeburn]

We are probably going to see where we are at in camp and wait for camp cuts.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Another former Colt to join the Dallas D:

https://twitter.com/GehlkenNFL/status/1666518099061776394

Cowboys are expected to sign DE Ben Banogu, two people familiar with discussions said.

Former TCU standout was a Colts second-round pick in 2019.

He grew up in North Texas, graduating from Prosper High.

[Oldcolt]

I'd like to see him get some playing time. I have no idea what kind of player you keep around for years and yet keep inactive for so many games. I am curious as to just how lousy (or good for that matter) Banogu is.

[Dam8610]

I'd like to see him get some playing time. I have no idea what kind of player you keep around for years and yet keep inactive for so many games. I am curious as to just how lousy (or good for that matter) Banogu is.

A guy who is somehow consistently between the 49th and 53rd best player on your team.

[Oldcolt]

A guy who is somehow consistently between the 49th and 53rd best player on your team.

I get that. I would just like to see it on the field. And how he makes the team as the 49-53 (and I agree with you he probably was) guy three years running is strange. I'm thinking Ballard just gives a long leash on some traits waiting to see if they can somehow make it work.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

The Colts add a DB / Special Team'er:


https://twitter.com/NateAtkins_/status/1684650233261641729

The Colts have made a veteran cornerback signing, adding CB Chris Lammons.

He’s played 42 games as a reserve with the Chiefs and Dolphins.

He also is facing a felony battery charge along with Alvin Kamara for the alleged fight incident in Las Vegas.

https://twitter.com/JoelAErickson/status/1684651937046601729

Chris Lammons was a core special teamer in KC the past two years. Played less than 40 snaps defensively as a cornerback, but more than 500 on special teams.

[IndyNorm]

Since Lammons is probably going to be suspended not sure he was worth bringing in.

[Discflinger]

Let the betting jokes ensue.

[Racehorse]

Since Lammons is probably going to be suspended not sure he was worth bringing in.

Camp body?

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

The Colts signed a depth veteran Offensive Lineman today - Dan Skipper. The journeyman has experience playing both Tackle and Guard.

Looking at the teams he has played for so far in his career, I predict his next team will be Detroit (again). Seems to keep going back to the Lions.

Dallas Cowboys (2017)
Detroit Lions (2017–2018)
Denver Broncos (2018)
New England Patriots (2018–2019)
Houston Texans (2019)
Detroit Lions (2019–2020)
Las Vegas Raiders (2021)
Detroit Lions (2021–2022)
Indianapolis Colts (2023)


https://twitter.com/mchappell51/status/1686448658152046597

Colts tweak roster (get used to it).

Sign OT Dan Skipper, waive OT Jordan Murray.

*Skipper: 6-9, 330. 29 games, 5 starts in 6 seasons.

Last season, 16 games played and 5 starts with Detroit.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Since Lammons is probably going to be suspended not sure he was worth bringing in.


Lammons and Kamara were each suspended 3 games.


https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1687531441532370951

RB Alvin Kamara was suspended 3 games for violations of the personal conduct policy for his role in an altercation around the time of the 2022 Pro Bowl.

Kamara had pleaded down to a misdemeanor, settled his civil suit and said today, “I was completely wrong.”

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1687531787260461066

CB Chris Lammons of the Colts is also suspended three regular season games.

[Brylok]

Colts signed RB Kenyan Drake. No other details yet.

[omahacolt]

Colts signed RB Kenyan Drake. No other details yet.

not bad to kick the tires. if JT is actually hurt still, moss hull and jackson isn't a great rb room

[Brylok]

not bad to kick the tires. if JT is actually hurt still, moss hull and jackson isn't a great rb room

Yeah, and Moss is injured, too. Drake, Hull, and Jackson for now I guess.

[omahacolt]

Yeah, and Moss is injured, too. Drake, Hull, and Jackson for now I guess.

yeah but moss will be back by week 2. you can roll with jackson and hull for a game if you had to.


i am curious if they think jt won't be playing anytime soon.

[Brylok]

yeah but moss will be back by week 2. you can roll with jackson and hull for a game if you had to.


i am curious if they think jt won't be playing anytime soon.

Or maybe even at all. I wonder if JT is finished as a Colt. Not much surprises me anymore.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

The Colts are bringing in Kareem Hunt for a visit tomorrow.


https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1689004046592643078

Source: RB Kareem Hunt had a great visit with the Saints and is now on his way to Indianapolis to meet with the Colts tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1689009034505097220

How about this twist?

RB Kareem Hunt was called by Indy before he even stepped foot on the field to work out for the Saints and was offered more money, per source.

He was advised to leave and head to Indy with the Colts for a visit.

[Racehorse]

The Colts are bringing in Kareem Hunt for a visit tomorrow.


https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1689004046592643078



https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1689009034505097220

I doubt he was offered more money, since he has not worked out yet.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

I doubt he was offered more money, since he has not worked out yet.


It could just mean the Colts offered a signing bonus as part of the contract and the Saints did not. Obviously contingent on the workout and passing a physical.

[Discflinger]

He left without a deal.

[Brylok]

Colts signed RB Jason Huntley yesterday. He'd been cut by the Steelers.

Also signed TE Ricky Seals-Jones.

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Risner finally signed a contract. Headed to Minnesota....which was his preferred landing spot.

I am guessing that he had a much higher asking price in the offseason before settling for this one year contract.


https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1703874850253635789

The Vikings are signing FA G Dalton Risner, sources say.

The former Broncos starter — and one of the top free agents available — lends valuable experience to Minnesota’s line.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1703879910253535447

Dalton Risner gets a 1-year deal worth $4M, source said.

https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1703884996291731575

Dalton Risner to Vikings, source confirms.

Risner badly wanted to sign with Minnesota despite several suitors, made clear to team it’s time to play football.

So, his long free agency wait is over